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“You (Babar Azam) were a fraud from the beginning”: Shoaib Akhtar

Asif321 said:
Akhtars one shoe is more valuable than Babar Azam whole career. He rightly blasted Misbah and fake king. Guy has played his heart out and with passion obviously will be hurt watching such timid players playing for Pakistan. He doesn’t accept mediocrity. Guys like Rizwan Misbah Babar can’t even come closer to his aura.
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Tell me the number of ICC tournaments Akhtar has won?
 
msb314 said:
Strong words from Shoaib Akhtar but let me list some of his accolades for the younger folks on PP

- Moderate Drinker during his playing days
- Refused to bowl in the 2003 WC Game against India after getting hammered by Sachin
- Missed 2007 WC due to genital warts
- Compared himself to Imran Khan and then hit Mo. Asif with a bat when he laughed at him for that ridiculous comparison..
- Slapped Bob Woolmer during an altercation about music to be played in the team bus
- Issued a life ban by the PCB due to multiple disciplinary issues (later rescinded by PCB..)

@Rana
@Savak
@mominsaigol
@Markhor
@topspin

It is very clear to me who the real fraud was lol
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Responding to negative criticism from Akhter with more negativity isn’t the answer.

That said, Akhtar had more impactful performances than Babar and won several big games, especially against India—like that iconic Chennai Test where he silenced the crowd. His criticism was more about Babar’s struggles in high-pressure matches.
 
Markhor said:
There was also the failed drug test before 2006 CT.

Akhtar like many of our ex-players also has many blots on his record so shouldn't throw too many stones.

However I'm glad Babar is being called out. He's survived on reputation and perception for too long.
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Babar should be called out. But this name calling from Ex Cricketers warrants no place. Because as you said, Akhtar has many blots if he goes down that route.
 
Local.Dada said:
Babar Azam has contributed to Pak cricket more than Shoaib Akthar.

Shoaib Akthar’s claim- fastest ball- did it fetch a wicket?

Got Sachin and Dravid out- ok and then what?

Babar has not done any off field shenanigans and is a controversy free character.

Shoaib was not what you call an ideal role model.

Barely even got to 200 test wickets.

Yes watching Shoaib was more fun but than again people prefer watching Nora Fatehi over Shabana Azmi but doesn’t make Nora Fatehi a better actress.
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Incorrect analogy. At his peak, Shoaib Akhtar was the most feared bowler. Though his longevity may not have matched that of the greats like McGrath, Akram, or Steyn. Nevertheless, his overall career record is still impressive, boasting impressive numbers across both formats. He also helped Pakistan win series in India and New Zealand. He won many matches on lifeless wickets in Pakistan. In contrast, Babar Azam hasn't won Pak anything, averaging just over 40 despite playing mostly on flat pitches in Pakistan and having a lower strike rate in Odis and t20is than most of his contemporaries.
 
Major said:
Tell me the number of ICC tournaments Akhtar has won?
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Ahmed shahzad has won more ICC trophies than Babar and Misbah . So you accept Shahzad is bigger legend than those two ?

Azhar Ali has ICC trophy . So he was better than Saed Anwar ?

Amir has 2 . Babar has 1 . Amir a bigger legend than Babar yeah ?

Forgot Rizwan doesn’t even have 1. By that case Shahzaib Hasan has 1 . So he is better ?
 
zarak said:
no comparing Babar to Yousuf, Inzi, and Miandad. He is not even on par with someone like Salim Malik
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While I agree with Shoaib....what have exactly Inzimam and Yousaf done, if we are brutally honest?

Do we know their performances in ICC tournaments? Hint: they're utterly dire. Inzi averages 20 across 5 world cups. Yousaf as horrific. We consider them legends because they were part of teams who absolutely battered India led by the amazing pace attack of Srinath, Prasad, Prabhakar, Singh and Agarkar and then Sri Lanka black and blue across bilaterals and Sharjah cups. That's it. Do we remember any legendary innings by either of them in Australia or South Africa? Because I don't? What did either do in World Cups against India? All I remember is flop, flop, flop.

The issue is our legends too, aside from Imran, Miandad and Wasim are the same as the current lot. We have created legends of people who have never won us a trophy. 1992 we won solely due to Imran Khan, you take his leadership out and we'd done zilch.
 
Whatever Shoaib has said is correct. Babar is a product of social media PR, he has always played for his average and never cared for teams overall requirement, he is all hype no performance in key matches against big teams in last 9 years. Surprisingly he got extended run from PCB without major performance
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Incorrect analogy. At his peak, Shoaib Akhtar was the most feared bowler. Though his longevity may not have matched that of the greats like McGrath, Akram, or Steyn. Nevertheless, his overall career record is still impressive, boasting impressive numbers across both formats. He also helped Pakistan win series in India and New Zealand. He won many matches on lifeless wickets in Pakistan. In contrast, Babar Azam hasn't won Pak anything, averaging just over 40 despite playing mostly on flat pitches in Pakistan and having a lower strike rate in Odis and t20is than most of his contemporaries.
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Babar won a CT
Babar won a wc match vs India

From pure numbers 100s, average etc Babar is not too shabby.

I do agree Shoaib was more exciting but it is not like Shoaib is Wasim Akram and Babar is some Uganda player, in terms of cricket reruns both are on par and Babar has a shot to exceed Shoaib if he turns it around in the next 2 yrs.

Also Babar seems more committed to cricket than being a dramaaybaaz.

If I have a youngster in my family and I want him to pick one as a role model (between the 2), my choice is easy.
 
Asif321 said:
Ahmed shahzad has won more ICC trophies than Babar and Misbah . So you accept Shahzad is bigger legend than those two ?

Azhar Ali has ICC trophy . So he was better than Saed Anwar ?

Amir has 2 . Babar has 1 . Amir a bigger legend than Babar yeah ?

Forgot Rizwan doesn’t even have 1. By that case Shahzaib Hasan has 1 . So he is better ?
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Again, tell me the numbers that Akhtar won.

This thread isnt about Shazaib hasan, Amir, Azhar Ali, Ahmad Shahzad.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Akhtar in 1999 WC > Babar whole career.

I'm not the biggest fan of Akhtar the analyst but the man had high impact performances at time.
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But Akhtar's own antics did more damage to Pakistan.

While he is calling Babar a Fraud, Mr. Akhtar slapped Bob Woolmer. He picked up a fight with Asif. He was using banned substances. All these acts led him to being kicked out of ICC tournaments, and in return Pakistan suffered defeats because his own acts caused him to be kicked out and make Pakistan weak.

The only time Akhtar cleaned up his act was during the 6 months before the 2011 World Cup. But before that this guy was a mess and was ruining our chances of winning an ICC tournament.

Atleast Babar is not involved in any controversy that leads to us losing an ICC tournament. He hasnt dragged the name of Pakistan down the gutter like Akhtar did.

The only achievement Akhtar ever had linked to an ICC tournament was the Genital Warts. His Genital Warts led him to being ousted from the 2009 squad which we won without him.
 
Pathetic choice of words.

Akhtar was also very disrespectful towards Sarfaraz Ahmed a few years ago.

Somebody needs to tell him off like Dr Nauman Niaz did on live TV.
 
Local.Dada said:
Babar won a CT
Babar won a wc match vs India

From pure numbers 100s, average etc Babar is not too shabby.

I do agree Shoaib was more exciting but it is not like Shoaib is Wasim Akram and Babar is some Uganda player, in terms of cricket reruns both are on par and Babar has a shot to exceed Shoaib if he turns it around in the next 2 yrs.

Also Babar seems more committed to cricket than being a dramaaybaaz.

If I have a youngster in my family and I want him to pick one as a role model (between the 2), my choice is easy.
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Babar Azam did not play a significant role in Pakistan's CT victory. Winning a single T20 World Cup match does not compare to the achievement of Akhtar, who helped Pak secure victories in away series in India and New Zealand.

I did not imply that Babar is a Uganda player; it was you who brought up Nora Fatehi-Shabana Azmi comparison. In Test cricket, Babar's average is merely adequate, while in ODIs, it's inflated due to bashing weaker teams and second string attacks. In both ODIs and T20Is, his strike rate is relatively low. Akhtar's average and economy rate were both good in the ODIs.

You have every right to choose your own role model. I am here addressing your claim about Babar having a greater impact on Pakistani cricket compared to Akhtar.
 
Pakpak said:
While I agree with Shoaib....what have exactly Inzimam and Yousaf done, if we are brutally honest?

Do we know their performances in ICC tournaments? Hint: they're utterly dire. Inzi averages 20 across 5 world cups. Yousaf as horrific. We consider them legends because they were part of teams who absolutely battered India led by the amazing pace attack of Srinath, Prasad, Prabhakar, Singh and Agarkar and then Sri Lanka black and blue across bilaterals and Sharjah cups. That's it. Do we remember any legendary innings by either of them in Australia or South Africa? Because I don't? What did either do in World Cups against India? All I remember is flop, flop, flop.

The issue is our legends too, aside from Imran, Miandad and Wasim are the same as the current lot. We have created legends of people who have never won us a trophy. 1992 we won solely due to Imran Khan, you take his leadership out and we'd done zilch.
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fair point
 
Savak said:
People don't care for this stuff as long as you perform for the country and win matches.

The current players are not even a patch compared to the players we had in the 80's and 90's. No one cares about how well behaved they are on and off the field if they ultimately prove to be losers on the field. This is a performance based game, perform or perish.
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Savak said:
People don't care for this stuff as long as you perform for the country and win matches.

The current players are not even a patch compared to the players we had in the 80's and 90's. No one cares about how well behaved they are on and off the field if they ultimately prove to be losers on the field. This is a performance based game, perform or perish.
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Markhor said:
There was also the failed drug test before 2006 CT.

Akhtar like many of our ex-players also has many blots on his record so shouldn't throw too many stones.

However I'm glad Babar is being called out. He's survived on reputation and perception for too long.
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I totally agree Babar needs to be criticized for his slow batting against NZ and for getting out to a nothing ball against Pandya.

And also agree that Shoaib Akhtar was a tremendous ODI and Test bowler who is miles ahead of SSA, Naseem Shah and Haris..

However, Shoaib is in no position to call anyone a fraud
 
Babars entire career is a footnote compared to Akhtar.

For all his problems, Akhtar was the pioneer of pace and revolutinized fast bowling.

I am no fan of Akhtar.

But when you compare him to Babar, Babar is a speck of dust in history of Pakistan cricket.
 
Why attack Babar Azam? He is just going through some bad form. Dud he attacked anyone with mouth?
 
Did babar attack anyone with mouth? No. If you don't want him in tram just drop him.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Babars entire career is a footnote compared to Akhtar.

For all his problems, Akhtar was the pioneer of pace and revolutinized fast bowling.

I am no fan of Akhtar.

But when you compare him to Babar, Babar is a speck of dust in history of Pakistan cricket.
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Akhtar had a huge following in India during his playing days. A lot of students in our college used to copy his run-up while bowling. And whenever someone bowled fast, people would compare him to Akhtar.
Uncles in our street were more scared than the batsmen while watching the Ind vs Pak matches.lol :ROFLMAO: .
I don’t think Babar will ever achieve the same level of popularity and craze as Akhtar.
 
Babar had a decent first ODI world cup. Any world class cricketer would have kicked on after such an event and become one of the best in the world. He has stopped growing as a cricketer after that, infact this version is worse than his younger days.

Sad career. Story of many Pakistani cricketers
 
Cover Drive Six said:
Akhtar had a huge following in India during his playing days. A lot of students in our college used to copy his run-up while bowling. And whenever someone bowled fast, people would compare him to Akhtar.
Uncles in our street were more scared than the batsmen while watching the Ind vs Pak matches.lol :ROFLMAO: .
I don’t think Babar will ever achieve the same level of popularity and craze as Akhtar.
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I remember I played a Sunday friendly game at a cricket club where there was a young lad who’s dad was umpiring. His tuk tuk earned the sledge of people calling him Babar Azam
 
shah_1 said:
Babar had a decent first ODI world cup. Any world class cricketer would have kicked on after such an event and become one of the best in the world. He has stopped growing as a cricketer after that, infact this version is worse than his younger days.

Sad career. Story of many Pakistani cricketers
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That's the story of this whole team pretty much. Especially Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf who all had a fantastic 2021-2022. Shadab Khan after his debut year was looking like a future superstar. Hassan Ali had a huge downfall as well. On top of that, the same declining players kept getting retained. The last 5 years has been super messy
 
Major said:
But Akhtar's own antics did more damage to Pakistan.

While he is calling Babar a Fraud, Mr. Akhtar slapped Bob Woolmer. He picked up a fight with Asif. He was using banned substances. All these acts led him to being kicked out of ICC tournaments, and in return Pakistan suffered defeats because his own acts caused him to be kicked out and make Pakistan weak.

The only time Akhtar cleaned up his act was during the 6 months before the 2011 World Cup. But before that this guy was a mess and was ruining our chances of winning an ICC tournament.

Atleast Babar is not involved in any controversy that leads to us losing an ICC tournament. He hasnt dragged the name of Pakistan down the gutter like Akhtar did.

The only achievement Akhtar ever had linked to an ICC tournament was the Genital Warts. His Genital Warts led him to being ousted from the 2009 squad which we won without him.
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I'm kind of neutral on this issue of whether Shoaib did the right thing or not by calling Babar a fraud (even though he is a fraud), but you cannot be using this reason that I bolded. To say that Shoaib is morally wrong for calling Babar a fraud but then echoing this rumour spread by Indian media that both Shoaib and Bob vehemently denied is uncool.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Incorrect analogy. At his peak, Shoaib Akhtar was the most feared bowler. Though his longevity may not have matched that of the greats like McGrath, Akram, or Steyn. Nevertheless, his overall career record is still impressive, boasting impressive numbers across both formats. He also helped Pakistan win series in India and New Zealand. He won many matches on lifeless wickets in Pakistan. In contrast, Babar Azam hasn't won Pak anything, averaging just over 40 despite playing mostly on flat pitches in Pakistan and having a lower strike rate in Odis and t20is than most of his contemporaries.
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Don’t forget his performance in the 2011 world cup which wasn’t bad. He may have helped Pakistan win it if it weren’t for Akmal dropping dollies off Akhtar’s bowling. Pakistan fielding was the worst in those days and Pakistani bowlers impact was significantly reduced due to pathetic fielding.
 
Asif321 said:
Ahmed shahzad has won more ICC trophies than Babar and Misbah . So you accept Shahzad is bigger legend than those two ?

Azhar Ali has ICC trophy . So he was better than Saed Anwar ?

Amir has 2 . Babar has 1 . Amir a bigger legend than Babar yeah ?

Forgot Rizwan doesn’t even have 1. By that case Shahzaib Hasan has 1 . So he is better ?
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The poster you’re replying to thinks Jogindar Sharma was a better bowler than Akhtar. Do you really wanna reason with this guy?
 
The entire Pakistani team is a fraud.

Kohli lives for cricket, while the current Pakistani team plays cricket just to live like celebrities.
 
gazza619 said:
Pathetic choice of words.

Akhtar was also very disrespectful towards Sarfaraz Ahmed a few years ago.

Somebody needs to tell him off like Dr Nauman Niaz did on live TV.
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And lol What good did that do for Dr Nauman, Akhtar eventually got his own back and he forced the PCB to kick out Nauman Niaz, Rashid Latif from PTV for good and its no secret that the later had leeched off PTV for a good 10 years.
 
HalBass9 said:
The entire Pakistani team is a fraud.

Kohli lives for cricket, while the current Pakistani team plays cricket just to live like celebrities.
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Kohli does both actually. He is able to maintain his focus on cricket, fitness, diet, nutrition on a daily basis and balancing all that with the glamour of Indian showbiz, commercial, sponsorship activities and being married to a bollywood actress and balancing all that with his kids.

Pakistani players in contrast can't even do their primary jobs. The moment they get a whiff of the good life, they lose the hunger, dedication, work ethic which they had at the start of their careers and they cannot recover it.
 
Local.Dada said:
Babar won a CT
Babar won a wc match vs India

From pure numbers 100s, average etc Babar is not too shabby.

I do agree Shoaib was more exciting but it is not like Shoaib is Wasim Akram and Babar is some Uganda player, in terms of cricket reruns both are on par and Babar has a shot to exceed Shoaib if he turns it around in the next 2 yrs.

Also Babar seems more committed to cricket than being a dramaaybaaz.

If I have a youngster in my family and I want him to pick one as a role model (between the 2), my choice is easy.
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That’s a stupid comparison. Babar won CT? You’re making it sound as if he single handedly won those matches. Babar has been a consistent member of a Pakistani team and just by his luck he got to see the success of Pakistani team during that period. You remove Babar from Pakistan and it doesn’t impact on the win loss percentage.

Babar was also part of the team that lost to USA and home series to Zimbabwe. Should we label him as the worst player in history because no Pakistan team in the history of cricket was this weak to lose to lower tier non cricket playing nations.
 
Savak said:
Kohli does both actually. He is able to maintain his focus on cricket, fitness, diet, nutrition on a daily basis and balancing all that with the glamour of Indian showbiz, commercial, sponsorship activities and being married to a bollywood actress and balancing all that with his kids.
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Kohli achieves this successfully because he understands that excelling in cricket is the key to gaining commercial deals, sponsorships, and respect from all areas of the entertainment industry.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Babars entire career is a footnote compared to Akhtar.

For all his problems, Akhtar was the pioneer of pace and revolutinized fast bowling.

I am no fan of Akhtar.

But when you compare him to Babar, Babar is a speck of dust in history of Pakistan cricket.
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Akhtar's cricketing exploits may have been unfulfilled and lots to be desired given the talent he had. But he has fully encashed his cricket career and is now making 100 times more money in retirement. People have no idea but the guy is full fledged entreprenuer in commercial and residential real estate, tv channels come running to him with the highest paycheques because of the traffic his presence generates. The guy doesn't even need to work around cricket but he does it to be busy.

An indian reporter narrated an episode where he contacted Akhtar very last minutes for a short phone interview and even stated his tv channel was willing to pay big but Akhtar did it for free saying i have made a lot of money in my life and everything is not about money.
 
HalBass9 said:
Kohli achieves this successfully because he understands that excelling in cricket is the key to gaining commercial deals, sponsorships, and respect from all areas of the entertainment industry.
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Its no rocket science, its a very simple formula i.e. you score consistent impactful runs leading your team to victory or take match winning 4-5 wicket hauls, look the part in terms of physical appearance, fitness and the commercialism will follow. But for some reason our players are happy, content with earning Rs 500,000 when they can easily quadruple it 5 times if they work a little harder and achieve things for the country beyond their individual performances.

I believe in the maslow hierarchy of needs and i feel the vast majority of players in our team have achieved their peak and cannot progress, develop anymore hence why a complete revamp of the team is needed.
 
Akhtar is a loud mouth cricketer who massively under achieved for his talent. Now has a cringeworthy social media presence.

That being said, he’s wrong about Babar always being a fraud. He’s not wrong about Babar being a fraud over the past 3-4 years. Babar started with immense potential but also like Akhtar will probably not live up to it.

Akhtar needed to reign in his aggression to have lived up to his potential and Babar is the opposite, someone needs to light a fire under his ass so he can live up to his potential.
 
I don't get Babar hate tbh.

Why he is supposed to take the brunt of whole team's collective batting failure. Why he is made the scapegoat, there are supposed to be 5 other specialist batters in the line-up.

He never comes across as rude or arrogant. He never claimed to be Kohli's equivalent. It's not his fault that his fans are delusional.

He is certainly not an ATG, but he has solid claim to be a Pakistani great. He is not a hack, he doesn't close his eyes and slogs like Rizwan does when switching gears or Afridi used to do all the time, he doesn't look busy on the crease or talk big like Ahmad Shahzad who never delivered. Babar is technically Pakistan's most correct batsman and looks most at ease. Only Umar Akmal, Salman Butt met international standards since Inzi's retirement. Their new upcoming youngsters look promising.

He is going through lean patch and is being written off with disdain. We blame his delusional fans, but his haters are numerous who leave no stone unturned. He has haters because he genuinely looked world class for few years and became face of Pakistan cricket in no time.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
I don't get Babar hate tbh.

Why he is supposed to take the brunt of whole team's collective batting failure. Why he is made the scapegoat, there are supposed to be 5 other specialist batters in the line-up.

He never comes across as rude or arrogant. He never claimed to be Kohli's equivalent. It's not his fault that his fans are delusional.

He is certainly not an ATG, but he has solid claim to be a Pakistani great. He is not a hack, he doesn't close his eyes and slogs like Rizwan does when switching gears or Afridi used to do all the time, he doesn't look busy on the crease or talk big like Ahmad Shahzad who never delivered. Babar is technically Pakistan's most correct batsman and looks most at ease. Only Umar Akmal, Salman Butt met international standards since Inzi's retirement. Their new upcoming youngsters look promising.

He is going through lean patch and is being written off with disdain. We blame his delusional fans, but his haters are numerous who leave no stone unturned. He has haters because he genuinely looked world class for few years and became face of Pakistan cricket in no time.
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I remain convinced that Babar is a great player but I would be a fool to ignore that he gives soft dismissals and loses his concentration too often for a world class batsman..

Needs to back himself more and play aggressively… hate the tuk tuk mentality and I think moving to the no. 4 position will be good for him in ODI’s and T20
 
Let's give Babar a good kicking. No doubt Babar isn't batting well and lacks creativity when up against bowlers that don't bowl to his strengths. But Shoaib Akhtar criticising anyone is beyond pathetic. Some of us have been around along time and we have long memories. Who can forget when he used to get drunk and turn team discipline into a joke, who can forget that he would eat like a pig and then tried to lose all the weight too quickly and caused his own injury problems, who can forget his embarrassing departure from county cricket.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
I don't get Babar hate tbh.

Why he is supposed to take the brunt of whole team's collective batting failure. Why he is made the scapegoat, there are supposed to be 5 other specialist batters in the line-up.

He never comes across as rude or arrogant. He never claimed to be Kohli's equivalent. It's not his fault that his fans are delusional.

He is certainly not an ATG, but he has solid claim to be a Pakistani great. He is not a hack, he doesn't close his eyes and slogs like Rizwan does when switching gears or Afridi used to do all the time, he doesn't look busy on the crease or talk big like Ahmad Shahzad who never delivered. Babar is technically Pakistan's most correct batsman and looks most at ease. Only Umar Akmal, Salman Butt met international standards since Inzi's retirement. Their new upcoming youngsters look promising.

He is going through lean patch and is being written off with disdain. We blame his delusional fans, but his haters are numerous who leave no stone unturned. He has haters because he genuinely looked world class for few years and became face of Pakistan cricket in no time.
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Give it a rest. These sob stories don’t work anymore. The cat’s out of the bag.
 
TheSultan said:
So the great comeback from babar fans is about shoaib’s off the field antics 👏🏼 👏🏼

Babar is a fraud who’s whole career is based on marketing statistics.

And his ajeeb and ghareeb skipper ain’t any better!
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Why do you and others blame Rizwan & Babar?

I really don't understand this logic...
 
calling him fraud is over reaction. Babar is a decent player. He is just not as good as his PR and fans hype him up to be. Pakistan themselves have had much better batsman than Babar. Younis Khan, Yousf, Salim Mallik, Inzy, Anwar are all better batsman than him. In fact even players like Izaz ahmed, Aamir Sohail, Fakhar, etc put more fear in their opposition than Babar. After years of watching him against India and other teams, i never even felt he will take the game away from the opposition. He will bat well, play some pleasing drives, stat pad and go.

Babar is now in a precarious stage in his career. Even players who are generally thought to be soft like Amla, Cullinan, etc are are all starting to look much better than him. Hopefully this is an inflection point in his career which pushes him to raise higher. I fear it will just push him to fall deeper
 
Savak said:
Woolmer never pressed charges hence it never happened.
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Cricinfo reported this.
and than next year he was also caught on camera. Source for that was also shared.

Than he also hit Asif aswell
 
Major said:
Cricinfo reported this.
and than next year he was also caught on camera. Source for that was also shared.

Than he also hit Asif aswell
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People don't remember these things but they remember the games he won.
 
Savak said:
People don't remember these things but they remember the games he won.
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Only kids who started following cricket after 2010 dont know these things.

Akhtar's off the field antics are well known with everyone, which is why anything he says is never taken seriously.

Best one was the genital warts saga.
 
TheSultan said:
So the great comeback from babar fans is about shoaib’s off the field antics 👏🏼 👏🏼

Babar is a fraud who’s whole career is based on marketing statistics.

And his ajeeb and ghareeb skipper ain’t any better!
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Ok. Kick him out. Let's see what Hulk magics up for PK. Will he sack the captain, well that's been tried, will he sack the coach, well he has already got through 3, will he reform domestic cricket,well apparently we have and Ghani Glass v HEC, so that problem is solved, maybe a little late as the CEO doesn't have time.
 
SportsWarrior said:
calling him fraud is over reaction. Babar is a decent player. He is just not as good as his PR and fans hype him up to be. Pakistan themselves have had much better batsman than Babar. Younis Khan, Yousf, Salim Mallik, Inzy, Anwar are all better batsman than him. In fact even players like Izaz ahmed, Aamir Sohail, Fakhar, etc put more fear in their opposition than Babar. After years of watching him against India and other teams, i never even felt he will take the game away from the opposition. He will bat well, play some pleasing drives, stat pad and go.

Babar is now in a precarious stage in his career. Even players who are generally thought to be soft like Amla, Cullinan, etc are are all starting to look much better than him. Hopefully this is an inflection point in his career which pushes him to raise higher. I fear it will just push him to fall deeper
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We haven't produced any decent batsman this century. He was the best out of the guys that came through this century but hasn't produced the goods when it mattered. I am not sure who you wanted the fans to root for? We like him, and wanted him to do well. You got some loser calling for the recall of match fixers, another calling for a WK that once scored 42. Who should we have rooted for?
 
Bewal Express said:
We haven't produced any decent batsman this century. He was the best out of the guys that came through this century but hasn't produced the goods when it mattered. I am not sure who you wanted the fans to root for? We like him, and wanted him to do well. You got some loser calling for the recall of match fixers, another calling for a WK that once scored 42. Who should we have rooted for?
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Man I have also supported Babar before, but this is beyond any kind of justification now to be honest.

If he is supposed to be a top player, the opposition is supposed to fear his run scoring. The guy only stat pads, that’s all he has ever done. Even if he plays a good knock, he has to have someone else do heavy lifting for us to either post a good score or chase down a target. He has taken the anchor role too literally and lets the team down more often than not. His issues have been there even when he was scoring, but they were masked because he used to stat pad so well before.

Now the runs have also dried up and he is getting exposed.
 
Akhtar had a LOT of issues (and underachieved) but he was a much bigger match-winner than Babar. I can recall many times he won games on his own by taking massive wickets.

Even if we look at a similar example, he did well against India at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham.

It's the reason they kept tolerating his bizarre off-field antics.

Babar was a supremely talented prospect and had been pegged as a massive talent by the age of 14-15. No doubt he was a high-quality player with everything needed to grow into a top-tier match-winning batsman.

Sadly, he never progressed his game properly. He made a few improvements but then started relying on the same skills he had as a teenager.

I wouldn't say he's a "fraud" but just a guy who has underachieved. He wants to score big in key moments but doesn't have the skills to do so. Can't play the sweep, can't change gears, and can't even manage lofted shots in the power play. There are too many holes in his game and he hasn't worked on them in his 20s. In big tournaments, you will get found out because teams will expose those issues with their bowlers going all-out.

He's basically Hashim Amla (in ODIs).
 
Usman Chadda said:
Man I have also supported Babar before, but this is beyond any kind of justification now to be honest.

If he is supposed to be a top player, the opposition is supposed to fear his run scoring. The guy only stat pads, that’s all he has ever done. Even if he plays a good knock, he has to have someone else do heavy lifting for us to either post a good score or chase down a target. He has taken the anchor role too literally and lets the team down more often than not. His issues have been there even when he was scoring, but they were masked because he used to stat pad so well before.

Now the runs have also dried up and he is getting exposed.
Click to expand...
Context isn't the same as Justification. He isn't playing well, hasn't done so for a while. If doesn't cut the mustard, drop him. What you and others want us is not to root for him.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Man I have also supported Babar before, but this is beyond any kind of justification now to be honest.

If he is supposed to be a top player, the opposition is supposed to fear his run scoring. The guy only stat pads, that’s all he has ever done. Even if he plays a good knock, he has to have someone else do heavy lifting for us to either post a good score or chase down a target. He has taken the anchor role too literally and lets the team down more often than not. His issues have been there even when he was scoring, but they were masked because he used to stat pad so well before.

Now the runs have also dried up and he is getting exposed.
Click to expand...
Who are these amazing batsman that Babar held back? We need names of the guys.
 
Bewal Express said:
Context isn't the same as Justification. He isn't playing well, hasn't done so for a while. If doesn't cut the mustard, drop him. What you and others want us is not to root for him.
Click to expand...
If he is selected, we will root for him.

But when he makes 65 off 90 balls chasing 321, how can anyone root for him? Please explain.
 
Bewal Express said:
Who are these amazing batsman that Babar held back? We need names of the guys.
Click to expand...
It’s not about random names, it’s about selecting players who want to go out there and play positive cricket. You are losing anyway, why not play an attacking brand of cricket that fans actually want to watch?

In what world can we ever get away with scoring at 2 runs per over at any stage of an ODI innings? How does a world class player like Babar not realize you just cannot win games if you do this?
 
kingusama92 said:
Akhtar had a LOT of issues (and underachieved) but he was a much bigger match-winner than Babar. I can recall many times he won games on his own by taking massive wickets.

Even if we look at a similar example, he did well against India at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham.

It's the reason they kept tolerating his bizarre off-field antics.

Babar was a supremely talented prospect and had been pegged as a massive talent by the age of 14-15. No doubt he was a high-quality player with everything needed to grow into a top-tier match-winning batsman.

Sadly, he never progressed his game properly. He made a few improvements but then started relying on the same skills he had as a teenager.

I wouldn't say he's a "fraud" but just a guy who has underachieved. He wants to score big in key moments but doesn't have the skills to do so. Can't play the sweep, can't change gears, and can't even manage lofted shots in the power play. There are too many holes in his game and he hasn't worked on them in his 20s. In big tournaments, you will get found out because teams will expose those issues with their bowlers going all-out.

He's basically Hashim Amla (in ODIs).
Click to expand...

He is an unique case study. He quickly amassed runs at good average which took him to the top of the ranking table. But there was this IT factor missing in his batting always. Whether it is lack of six hitting or whether lack of cocky and disdainful batting or whether lack of aggressive running betweent the wickets or combination of all i don't know. He never took his game to next level. Travis head did. Most recently Shai Hope who used to be such a tuk tuker has become a beastly hitter. He never evolved. He managed to mask these inadequacies with carefully accumulated runs. His bad run of form is exposing all his shortcomings. How he will wriggle himself out of it something we have to wait and see.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He is an unique case study. He quickly amassed runs at good average which took him to the top of the ranking table. But there was this IT factor missing in his batting always. Whether it is lack of six hitting or whether lack of cocky and disdainful batting or whether lack of aggressive running betweent the wickets or combination of all i don't know. He never took his game to next level. Travis head did. Most recently Shai Hope who used to be such a tuk tuker has become a beastly hitter. He never evolved. He managed to mask these inadequacies with carefully accumulated runs. His bad run of form is exposing all his shortcomings. How he will wriggle himself out of it something we have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Kohli had similar issues but he worked on his running , fitness and consistent gap findings none of which Babar has.

Babar was also compared to Sachin who worked even harder on his batting.
 
Usman Chadda said:
It’s not about random names, it’s about selecting players who want to go out there and play positive cricket. You are losing anyway, why not play an attacking brand of cricket that fans actually want to watch?

In what world can we ever get away with scoring at 2 runs per over at any stage of an ODI innings? How does a world class player like Babar not realize you just cannot win games if you do this?
Click to expand...
But who? You can get any idiot to slog. If that is the criteria then why not put Naseem and Rauf at the top. Babar isn't playing well but does anyone seriously think that we have some other guys that would do better. Imam smashed domestic attacks and got his chance and what happened. Do u think that Asif Ali, a guy that can't play anyone over 80mph would have done better. He is the best talent we have produced this century but it wasn't good enough. Let's see the mafia domestic setup give us the talent.
 
topspin said:
But he became a Misbah product.

Misbah mentored Babar when he first became captain and he was the one who brought forward the Rizbar opening combination.

Babar’s hero might not be Misbah, but he is definitely your hero and as always, anything he touches turns into turd.
Click to expand...
Nice khiyaali pilao.

A bit too salty though.
 
topspin said:
But he became a Misbah product.

Misbah mentored Babar when he first became captain and he was the one who brought forward the Rizbar opening combination.

Babar’s hero might not be Misbah, but he is definitely your hero and as always, anything he touches turns into turd.
Click to expand...
so when Babar was doing good in 2021 under Misbah you dint want to give him credit. But as soon as Babar is out of form, blame Misbah?
 
Overreaction from Shoaib. He is just trying to milk money with some loose talk.

However, Babar is definitely struggling for quite a while. Pakistan team needs a leader and a good coach. As Intikhab Alam once famously said, "some of these players are mentally retarded". The current Pakistani team is insecure, mentally weak and have no star power. Unfortunately, we have lost all flare and flamboyance we used to have in the past.
 
msb314 said:
Strong words from Shoaib Akhtar but let me list some of his accolades for the younger folks on PP

- Moderate Drinker during his playing days
- Refused to bowl in the 2003 WC Game against India after getting hammered by Sachin
- Missed 2007 WC due to genital warts
- Compared himself to Imran Khan and then hit Mo. Asif with a bat when he laughed at him for that ridiculous comparison..
- Slapped Bob Woolmer during an altercation about music to be played in the team bus
- Issued a life ban by the PCB due to multiple disciplinary issues (later rescinded by PCB..)

@Rana
@Savak
@mominsaigol
@Markhor
@topspin

It is very clear to me who the real fraud was lol
Click to expand...
A) No one cares about moderate drinking in a game about cricket.

B) Sachin is top 5 odi players of all time

C) That's medical

D) Not relevant

E) Not relevant

F) Not relevant

Besides the Sachin moment, none of the examples are cricket relevant. It doesn't change the fact that his record is such that most pacers would dream of having that record while babar's test and t20 record is clown worthy. And his odi record is just okay.

For the World's no 2 icc ranked batter, his record is pathetic
 
Bewal Express said:
But who? You can get any idiot to slog. If that is the criteria then why not put Naseem and Rauf at the top. Babar isn't playing well but does anyone seriously think that we have some other guys that would do better. Imam smashed domestic attacks and got his chance and what happened. Do u think that Asif Ali, a guy that can't play anyone over 80mph would have done better. He is the best talent we have produced this century but it wasn't good enough. Let's see the mafia domestic setup give us the talent.
Click to expand...
You don’t want players to slog, you need players who are looking to score even if they are only scoring those 1s or 2s.

We need to give chances to other players now in our domestic cricket, we will lose most likely but atleast we can set a template for the generation coming up who will know they cannot star-pad to stay relevant for Pakistan.

Justifying the likes of Babar, Rizwan, Saud etc scoring meaningless runs will set an extremely dangerous precedent and we will be screwed even more so in the long run.

This batting line-up was rubbish from the time it was announced. All our hopes were pinned on Fakhar scoring quickly, that tells you all you need to know about the rest of the batting line-up.

I was exactly in the same spot as you before the T20WC recently, but that USA game where Babar was chugging along at a SR of 60 in a T20 game just hit me really hard man.

Then he serves up this masterclass against New Zealand. These players are not learning nor are they improving.

We have to change the mindset or we will be left too far behind.
 
Pakpak said:
While I agree with Shoaib....what have exactly Inzimam and Yousaf done, if we are brutally honest?

Do we know their performances in ICC tournaments? Hint: they're utterly dire. Inzi averages 20 across 5 world cups. Yousaf as horrific. We consider them legends because they were part of teams who absolutely battered India led by the amazing pace attack of Srinath, Prasad, Prabhakar, Singh and Agarkar and then Sri Lanka black and blue across bilaterals and Sharjah cups. That's it. Do we remember any legendary innings by either of them in Australia or South Africa? Because I don't? What did either do in World Cups against India? All I remember is flop, flop, flop.

The issue is our legends too, aside from Imran, Miandad and Wasim are the same as the current lot. We have created legends of people who have never won us a trophy. 1992 we won solely due to Imran Khan, you take his leadership out and we'd done zilch.
Click to expand...
That's different. Firstly inzi's 1992 innings is an iconic knock. He came in chasing 100 of 60 in the final overs which in that one ball era was bloody difficult to do. That knock alone was > every knock that any Pakistani batsmen had ever played in any icc event before fakhar zaman played a better one against NZ in 2023.

Secondly bi laterals in that era were taken very seriously. Unlike today where

A) Nz sends c teams cause their players are busy with IPL

B) Aus retires 5 of their key players + 2 more Travis and Marsh who don't even participate in an all important decider just to focus on BGT

C) root doesn't play odi for 4 years just for giggles etc etc

Bi laterals back then were extremely serious affairs. Every side took it seriously with ajs vs eng and pak vs India being the 2 main bi lateral series to look out for.

Inzi and yousaf performed extremely well in bi laterals while Babar can't even do that against a full strength side.

From his 19 centuries only 5 times has Babar actually scored against full strength.

A) 2017 aus where we lost

B) 2x against full strength England which once again we lost both encounters

C) 1x against sa where he disnt finish the game and pakistan fluked the win thanks to faheem tulle bazi.

D) 1x against nz in wc( his best innings which relied on haris sohail having to play an atg knock to cover up for babar's slow start)

All these 5x wi bashing, 1x Nepal bashing, 1x NZ c string century bashing, 2x aus c string bashing and a majority of these done on pindi roads is irrelevant.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He is an unique case study. He quickly amassed runs at good average which took him to the top of the ranking table. But there was this IT factor missing in his batting always. Whether it is lack of six hitting or whether lack of cocky and disdainful batting or whether lack of aggressive running betweent the wickets or combination of all i don't know. He never took his game to next level. Travis head did. Most recently Shai Hope who used to be such a tuk tuker has become a beastly hitter. He never evolved. He managed to mask these inadequacies with carefully accumulated runs. His bad run of form is exposing all his shortcomings. How he will wriggle himself out of it something we have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
Agree with much of what you say. He bats like a prisoner when he doesn't need to. For me the 6 hitting is def an issue but the bigger problem is the lack of sweeps and creativity. For you to sweep, generally you have to get quite low to the ground.Surely, with the facilities available he would get practicing to get low in the nets and just learn to sweep. This would have forced the bowlers to bowl fuller and that's when Babar can use his feet and drive. Which was always his strength.
The 2nd issue was his reluctance to use his feet against pace bowlers to throw them off their length. In the NZ game, I was so disappointed that he didn't come down the wicket to Henry as he bowls a fuller length and also give himself room to attack the hard length of O' Rourke and smash him over point and cover. None of it is easy but if you want to be the best, you must be able to do it.
 
Bewal Express said:
I will always root for him until someone better comes. Please give me names that I should be rooting for after his failure
Click to expand...
We will never know, until we change our mindset and allow players to come through based on that mindset only.

The current crop might stink up the place and we might lose way more than we win, but atleast we will be watchable.

No neutral is going to watch anyone other than Saim or Fakhar bat, why are we happy with this mediocrity?
 
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