A question for Non-Vegetarians

[ForeverIndian]

What makes/inspires you to eat non veg food ? I mean . don't you guys find it disgusting to eat animals ? Also , why would you kill animals just to satisfy your hunger ? I absolutely despise non-veg food and killing of animals.

 

[Slog]

Its how the world works and what the food chain is about. That's how its been for a millennia and will remain so till the end of time.

No need to shame others on it. Not that anyone would.

And meat tastes unbelievable. Steaks are just so good!!

 

[CricketCartoons]

Non vegetarian is the wrong word. Because the meat eaters cant do without vegetables to make the meat taste good. Call them meat eaters, not non vegetarians.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Most of us were brought up eating it and never questioned that it was a valid food source. I can see the argument that is disgusting from a moral point of view, but not from a scientific one. Human digestive system is designed to process meat, same as other omnivore mammals. If I was going to give up meat on a moral basis I think I would like to move to a remote place in the third world where I could live a simple life eating beans and shoots and live in a wooden shack without any modern comforts like electricity or medicine. Maybe join a Buddhist monastery in Nepal provided they could work out the via issues.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Vegetarians are like this kid. Naive and no idea about how the world works.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OvB8_1u7AM4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Mamoon]

We are the top of the food chain and are not part of the natural diet of any organism. We are entitled to eat whatever we deem fit.

 

[CricketCartoons]

We are the top of the food chain and are not part of the natural diet of any organism. We are entitled to eat whatever we deem fit.

The term food chain would make sense in a natural ecological system. but in the man made system, we must seek a balance between nature and our own needs. livestock rearing produces more greenhouse emissions than cars, takes up more water and energy per pound of meat produced than any other food. but not much can be done. the least from ethical pov is to raise animals well and not subject them to abuse.

 

[Adil_94]

Just used to it been brought up with eating it. And it tastes too nice not to eat it

 

[Syed1]

Never really thought about what inspires me to eat it.. have been eating since a very young age. Everytime I'll go out to eat I'll always order something with meat in it and always ignore the vegetarians section, because frankly speaking meat is alot more delicious than sabzi.

Specially if you have a juicy chicken tikka or a bihari kabab, also biryani without chicken would be like chai without dhoodh.

 

[Syed1]

Also important vitamins like B12 are only available in meat and meat products.

 

[Ummer Khan]

What makes/inspires you to eat non veg food ? I mean . don't you guys find it disgusting to eat animals ? Also , why would you kill animals just to satisfy your hunger ? I absolutely despise non-veg food and killing of animals.

Despise is a pretty strong word.

You need to respect others opinions and decisions.

 

[Ummer Khan]

Btw have you noticed how "meal" and "meat" almost spell and sound similar?

 

[CricketCartoons]

[/B]
Despise is a pretty strong word.

You need to respect others opinions and decisions.

You should also respect others opinions of despising meat eating.

 

[Ummer Khan]

You should also respect others opinions of despising meat eating.

say what?

 

[Syed1]

You should also respect others opinions of despising meat eating.

That doesn't even make sense.

I don't eat any kind of food derived from pig but that does not mean I despise pig eating. People can do whatever they deem fit who am I to question other people's decisions.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That doesn't even make sense.

I don't eat any kind of food derived from pig but that does not mean I despise pig eating. People can do whatever they deem fit who am I to question other people's decisions.

So people should follow your standards only? Why cannot one despise meat eating? You only respect others opinions when you agree you them?

 

[Major]

What if we ask you what inspires you to eat veggies all the time?

Its the way we and you are bought up.

I understand why you find it disgusting to eat meat, because we also feel disgusted when we see someone eat pork, and we might ask the same question from a pork eater that why does he eat pork, and his answer would be that he was bought up that way..

Its the culture you live in that makes you think that way. This is the problem of the subcontinent, we are not open minded, we are forced to make everything a taboo just so that we shouldn't do that thing. Although it works, it stops us from doining that particular thing, but it ends up making us judgmental and we start judging others who do it.

As for having sympathy of the animal we kill to eat. Hey bugs are living things too, but we still kill them because they irritate us.

 

[10sion]

What makes/inspires you to eat non veg food ? I mean . don't you guys find it disgusting to eat animals ? Also , why would you kill animals just to satisfy your hunger ? I absolutely despise non-veg food and killing of animals.

If you love animals so much, stop eating their food.

Sorry couldn't think of anything else and read that line somewhere!

 

[Major]

an animal is not like a human being that for whom you would sympathies before killing it and end up eating it, probably because its the way God made animals, uncivilized creatures to put it short

 

[mithun_minhas]

Human's evolved on the meat of other animals. Its the protein rich animal meat that let our brains develop.

I do eat meat. But I restrict myself to Chicken and sometimes Turkey and Fish. They are healthy sources of protein. I cannot imagine eating Cow, Goat, Sheep. I do not eat the Subcontinent way of cooked Meat. Too much oil in it. I prefer Greek. I am eating one right now

Indian diet does not provide us with enough protein. We eat too much carbs, oil and sugar. We never eat proper portions of food. Its good to have one meal a day with white meat in it.

 

[Syed1]

Also killing living thing argument doesn't hold true. Plants are also living beings..

 

[Major]

Also killing living thing argument doesn't hold true. Plants are also living beings..

you cant really call a plant and animal as the same thing.

If a human breaks the leaf of a plant or a branch no one would care, but if injure an animal that would be different.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If we were brought up eating meat, we veg fellas wouldn't feel bad about it too.

But its interesting to know the views of others, how they think.

Though I do find killing animals the way its done in slaughter houses very disturbing.

But again....I was brought up being a vegetarian so the way I view the world would be different.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Also...there exists difference in killing.

Smash a mosquito or cockroach and kill it and no one would raise an eyebro.

Smash a cat with a big stone and kill it and people would call you a psycho and a cruel person.

So there is a difference.

 

[chaiwala]

As ideologies, both veganism and non-vegetarianism are sound. The ones in between, however, which either prohibit certain animals or prohibit all meat but allow animal products, etc. lack consistency for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bhaijaan]

I have given up eating meat just recently. I was ok with killing animals for food, but i never bothered too much about whether they're being killed in a humane manner or not. Killing is debatable but torture should be absolutely unacceptable. There is a saying tha says that if all slaughter houses had glass walls, people would all be vegetarians, and thats probably true. I don't think a lot of people bother to care for animal rights, they know something is wrong but they have conditioned their mind to be insensitive to such thoughts. I think the meat eaters should all demand ethical practices, if they're to justify what lies on their plate.

 

[Major]

I have given up eating meat just recently. I was ok with killing animals for food, but i never bothered too much about whether they're being killed in a humane manner or not. Killing is debatable but torture should be absolutely unacceptable. There is a saying tha says that if all slaughter houses had glass walls, people would all be vegetarians, and thats probably true. I don't think a lot of people bother to care for animal rights, they know something is wrong but they have conditioned their mind to be insensitive to such thoughts. I think the meat eaters should all demand ethical practices, if they're to justify what lies on their plate.

bhai you have your opinion, but you cant force others what they want.

People watch animals get slaughtered on Eid day, so dont worry about that

 

[Syed1]

Humans were hunters first and farmers after. Eating meat is instinctive and built-in.

 

[Syed1]

Why can we not accept other people's choice, I don't drink but a lot of my Pakistani/Indian friends do.. should I also 'despise' them for their choices?

 

[chaiwala]

Humans were hunters first and farmers after. Eating meat is instinctive and built-in.

Not hunters, but hunter and gatherers. Meaning they also ate many plants, fruits, and nuts. Some theories even suggests that the Paleolithic diet was mostly vegetarian. But we have evolved past that anyways. Now we depend mostly on agriculture and livestock, so the need for this "instinct" has diminished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never really thought about what inspires me to eat it.. have been eating since a very young age. Everytime I'll go out to eat I'll always order something with meat in it and always ignore the vegetarians section, because frankly speaking meat is alot more delicious than sabzi.

Specially if you have a juicy chicken tikka or a bihari kabab, also biryani without chicken would be like chai without dhoodh.

Actually, I find a lot of vegetarian dishes really tasty, but a lot of times that is because a lot of fats, sugars or salt has been added during the cooking, especially modern day food. But in any case, the OP is asking more from a moral angle, and unless you are a hermit living in the woods, there is not much of a moral advantage to eating veg either.

 

[Robert]

What makes/inspires you to eat non veg food ? I mean . don't you guys find it disgusting to eat animals ? Also , why would you kill animals just to satisfy your hunger ? I absolutely despise non-veg food and killing of animals.

1. because they taste great

2. no, they taste great

3. because they taste great

Though I am uncomfortable about factory farming methods - fluffy chicks being fed into grinders as a by-product of the egg industry and so on. I would probably be a veggie by now if it were not for the carnivorous Mrs Robert shoving meat on my plate.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

1. because they taste great

2. no, they taste great

3. because they taste great

Though I am uncomfortable about factory farming methods - fluffy chicks being fed into grinders as a by-product of the egg industry and so on. I would probably be a veggie by now if it were not for the carnivorous Mrs Robert shoving meat on my plate.

Oh God.

Its things like these that make me so sad that its tough to express.

Isn't there a humane way to kill them?

Of course I respect others views (my friends eat chicken and drink) but some of the stuff that happens is just too painful to see/hear.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have given up eating meat just recently. I was ok with killing animals for food, but i never bothered too much about whether they're being killed in a humane manner or not. Killing is debatable but torture should be absolutely unacceptable. There is a saying tha says that if all slaughter houses had glass walls, people would all be vegetarians, and thats probably true. I don't think a lot of people bother to care for animal rights, they know something is wrong but they have conditioned their mind to be insensitive to such thoughts. I think the meat eaters should all demand ethical practices, if they're to justify what lies on their plate.

I was sent by my mum to collect meat for Eid from our local halal butcher as a teenager and the guy was scoffing at me saying that I should be doing it myself if I really understood the meaning of sacrifice. At the time I just thought "what a dick" but on reflection, he was probably more in tune with animal welfare than I was.

 

[Robert]

Oh God.

Its things like these that make me so sad that its tough to express.

Isn't there a humane way to kill them?

Of course I respect others views (my friends eat chicken and drink) but some of the stuff that happens is just too painful to see/hear.

I would imagine that it would be like me being hit by an express train. Out like a light. Still horrid to think of. I'll never buy factory farm eggs again.

 

[Robert]

I was sent by my mum to collect meat for Eid from our local halal butcher as a teenager and the guy was scoffing at me saying that I should be doing it myself if I really understood the meaning of sacrifice. At the time I just thought "what a dick" but on reflection, he was probably more in tune with animal welfare than I was.

I do have respect for the American hunters who shoot deer, pigs, turkeys etc. and then live all winter on them, rather than leaving the dirty work to a slaughterman in a factory.

 

[Xohaib]

Because its tasty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Oh God.

Its things like these that make me so sad that its tough to express.

Isn't there a humane way to kill them?

Of course I respect others views (my friends eat chicken and drink) but some of the stuff that happens is just too painful to see/hear.

Personally I'm not comfortable eating meat if

A) Its from animals who've spent their entire lives indoors being pumped with chemical crap to fatten them up as quick as possible as seems to be the case in the USA.

B) Animal hasnt had a couple years of actual life prior to being slaughtered.

C) Its not killed in a painless way.

D) Its not still a very young animal e.g veal

We have really high agricultural standards here generally as it makes a large part of our economy, so unlike in the US where animals are treated horribly generally speaking farm animals here actually live a life outdoors for a couple years prior to being killed (which as far as I'm aware involves stunning so its painless). Thats the case for cows at least.

Chickens can get horrible treatment though so I always try get free range eggs or chicken. The life of a battery hen would almost put you to tears tbh, absolutely horrific. Thankfully my cousin and neighbour keeps about 10 hens in his back garden so we can just buy eggs em off him in the morning.

As for why we eat meat,

A) Its natural, in my opinion anyway.
B) Its so damn delicious.
C) Grown up in a society where meat eating is totally normal.

Source: Live next to a farm, plus some of my relatives are farmers.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Personally I'm not comfortable eating meat if

A) Its from animals who've spent their entire lives indoors being pumped with chemical crap to fatten them up as quick as possible as seems to be the case in the USA.

B) Animal hasnt had a couple years of actual life prior to being slaughtered.

C) Its not killed in a painless way.

D) Its not still a very young animal e.g veal

We have really high agricultural standards here generally as it makes a large part of our economy, so unlike in the US where animals are treated horribly generally speaking farm animals here actually live a life outdoors for a couple years prior to being killed (which as far as I'm aware involves stunning so its painless). Thats the case for cows at least.

Chickens can get horrible treatment though so I always try get free range eggs or chicken. The life of a battery hen would almost put you to tears tbh, absolutely horrific. Thankfully my cousin and neighbour keeps about 10 hens in his back garden so we can just buy eggs em off him in the morning.

As for why we eat meat,

A) Its natural, in my opinion anyway.
B) Its so damn delicious.
C) Grown up in a society where meat eating is totally normal.

Source: Live next to a farm, plus some of my relatives are farmers.

Wow...that was very informative.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Wow...that was very informative.

Sarcasm??

Cant tell

 

[Suleiman]

I see it more from a religious point of view in the sense that Allah created whatever is on the earth and in the universe as a whole for our own benefit and use. With that in mind when I eat meat, whether it's chicken or beef I don't feel bad, because in my mind I know that this animal was made for me to devour.

From a non religious point or view, I see it as being on top of the food chain like some users above said. I am not content with just eating vegetables for my whole life, as for me the meats are what make up the core of a meal, I feel now it is as important to my diet as water (even though the latter is a necessity and not a need).

I have seen cows and goats getting slaughtered in front of me during Eid ul Adha or at a kasai's shop. I don't feel bad, it's the same as seeing my meal getting prepared for me. That may make me seem heartless to some people, but it's the truth and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sarcasm??

Cant tell

No bro.

I didn't know some of the stuff like treatment of animals being different there compared to USA (outdoor life, etc) .

Also its awesome to see you take so much pains for something like this. If I were in your place, I might have never taken such steps and just bought whatever was available in the stores.

Maybe I should have used the word "interesting" more than informative for your post.

Have been having a few epic fail moments today. Don't mind.

 

[hadi123]

Vegetarians are like this kid. Naive and no idea about how the world works.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OvB8_1u7AM4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

aw, bless this little kid

 

[Donal Cozzie]

No bro.

I didn't know some of the stuff like treatment of animals being different there compared to USA (outdoor life, etc) .

Also its awesome to see you take so much pains for something like this. If I were in your place, I might have never taken such steps and just bought whatever was available in the stores.

Maybe I should have used the word "interesting" more than informative for your post.

Have been having a few epic fail moments today. Don't mind.

tbf its not particularly difficult, most butchers use locally sourced meat plus I live in a rural area. There are times when I've had to buy supermarket meat though (most of which is also locally sourced as there's more of a local produce feel here and in the UK than the US) and I've just checked and to my relief it is free range lol.

I get the impression (maybe incorrect) that in the US much less emphasis is placed on welfare of the animals and more on getting it cheap. Here I feel people care more about where the meat comes from and how it got there, so most meat will be sourced by various local farmers unlike the US where its big corporations or factories that treat animals terribly who provide most of it. Could be wrong but thats my impression.

Also not saying animals get it all great, there are undoubtedly places here that treat them poorly, as in every country

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I do have respect for the American hunters who shoot deer, pigs, turkeys etc. and then live all winter on them, rather than leaving the dirty work to a slaughterman in a factory.

Another memory which sticks in my mind as a teenager is when a sheep was actually slaughtered in a remote village in Pakistan. Those people didn't eat meat often but when they did it was usually a special occasion. The crows used to be hovering around to pick up the leftovers. Probably the rest ended up as food for some other animal.

 

[RWAC]

OP People who have been eating meat have become de-sensitized to the killing and pain of animals, so raising moral standards won't do much here.

Pretty much like how those people will most likely squirm watching a human kid being slaughtered for food by another carnivorous animal/cannibal, but the animal or cannibal won't think twice before slaughtering their child.

I've said it before maybe but I'll repeat it. My issue is (mostly forcefully) impregnating animals so they produce babies for a meat-eater to kill them later for your taste.

So this whole top of food chain argument is BS. This is not a natural/ecological food chain. We control, harvest, artificially populate and exploit the food chain.

We need a race of aliens to conquer us, force us to have sex and produce babies, and then slaughter our babies for food to make us understand.

 

[moumotta]

OP People who have been eating meat have become de-sensitized to the killing and pain of animals, so raising moral standards won't do much here.

Pretty much like how those people will most likely squirm watching a human kid being slaughtered for food by another carnivorous animal/cannibal, but the animal or cannibal won't think twice before slaughtering their child.

I've said it before maybe but I'll repeat it. My issue is (mostly forcefully) impregnating animals so they produce babies for a meat-eater to kill them later for your taste.

So this whole top of food chain argument is BS. This is not a natural/ecological food chain. We control, harvest, artificially populate and exploit the food chain.

We need a race of aliens to conquer us, force us to have sex and produce babies, and then slaughter our babies for food to make us understand.

Is animal farming bad only when it is for food or is it also bad to farm them for things like milk, wool, silk and labour.

 

[moumotta]

Is animal farming bad only when it is for food or is it also bad to farm them for things like milk, wool, silk and leather.

typo corrected

 

[desi_launda]

I love eating meat.Watching animals being slaughtered gives me immense pleasure.

 

[chaiwala]

OP People who have been eating meat have become de-sensitized to the killing and pain of animals, so raising moral standards won't do much here.

Pretty much like how those people will most likely squirm watching a human kid being slaughtered for food by another carnivorous animal/cannibal, but the animal or cannibal won't think twice before slaughtering their child.

I've said it before maybe but I'll repeat it. My issue is (mostly forcefully) impregnating animals so they produce babies for a meat-eater to kill them later for your taste.

So this whole top of food chain argument is BS. This is not a natural/ecological food chain. We control, harvest, artificially populate and exploit the food chain.

We need a race of aliens to conquer us, force us to have sex and produce babies, and then slaughter our babies for food to make us understand.

You are extending human ethics to animals. How do you know that animals value the same morals we do? Perhaps murder is not a grave sin for them (in fact, this seems likely since animals kill each other frequently for food).

 

[saadibaba]

The moral argument for not eating meat makes perfect sense. There is really no excuse in today's world for killing animals to eat meat. It's a savage and barbaric practice, plain and simple. We, including me, have leaned to desensitize ourselves so we don't have to make any sacrifices and give up something we are so addicted to. The society we live in encourages meat eating. We do not look down on meat eaters, in fact the vegans are considered the weird ones.

I feel this will change with time. Just like slavery was once considered fine, meat eating will also fade away and once the majority goes against it, the minority will have no option but to get in line. A few hundred years from now, people will look at our times the same way we look at the stone ages. In the meantime, let us enjoy our steaks, our chicken tikka's, our seekh kababs, burgers etc. while we can. Our last connection with our prehistoric roots.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I see it more from a religious point of view in the sense that Allah created whatever is on the earth and in the universe as a whole for our own benefit and use. With that in mind when I eat meat, whether it's chicken or beef I don't feel bad, because in my mind I know that this animal was made for me to devour.

From Islamic point of view, muslims should not consume meat if the animal was brought up with cruelty and abuse (which happens in most poultry farms and slaughterhouses). Islam doesnt just say that the meat should be halaal, it also says that animals should be treated well. But most muslims forget about it and eat as long as it is certified halaal.

 

[Slog]

From Islamic point of view, muslims should not consume meat if the animal was brought up with cruelty and abuse (which happens in most poultry farms and slaughterhouses). Islam doesnt just say that the meat should be halaal, it also says that animals should be treated well. But most muslims forget about it and eat as long as it is certified halaal.

In its proper sense halaal meat just doesnt include the way the animal was cut.

its all abt how it was raised, what it was fed etc

 

[Slog]

The moral argument for not eating meat makes perfect sense. There is really no excuse in today's world for killing animals to eat meat. It's a savage and barbaric practice, plain and simple. We, including me, have leaned to desensitize ourselves so we don't have to make any sacrifices and give up something we are so addicted to. The society we live in encourages meat eating. We do not look down on meat eaters, in fact the vegans are considered the weird ones.

I feel this will change with time. Just like slavery was once considered fine, meat eating will also fade away and once the majority goes against it, the minority will have no option but to get in line. A few hundred years from now, people will look at our times the same way we look at the stone ages. In the meantime, let us enjoy our steaks, our chicken tikka's, our seekh kababs, burgers etc. while we can. Our last connection with our prehistoric roots.

Interesting perspective but I highly doubt it. Theres no underlying historical or religious based argument which would support it. All the famous movement and especially the anti slavery and then civil rights movement had their roots in Christianity. There is no major religion (aside from Hinduism) which looks down upon meat eating and actively discourages it. The moral argument will only take it so far and everyone will need to be rational and empathic to buy that and achieving such a society is never happening

]

 

[archetype]

Meat tastes really good. If something tastes really good, then eating meat must have had an evolutionary purpose.

 

[RWAC]

Is animal farming bad only when it is for food or is it also bad to farm them for things like milk, wool, silk and labour.

Notwithstanding the clear distinction between having to kill the animal for food vs obtaining milk and wool from them while keeping them alive, I would consider any activity where animals are caused harm (physical, mental, emotional) and are treated with cruelty to be at best, avoidable.

 

[RWAC]

You are extending human ethics to animals. How do you know that animals value the same morals we do? Perhaps murder is not a grave sin for them (in fact, this seems likely since animals kill each other frequently for food).

Thank you for bringing this up.

Let's set aside the fact that animals have been proven to show human emotions such as fear, empathy, love. Let's also set aside the fact that it will be rare to find instances of a higher-order organism trapping a lower-order organism and 'harvesting' it for food over and over again.

Do you agree that animals are sentient beings who fear death? If so, I hope you will also agree that animals would not want to die in order to become someone's food. That's where humans, with all our higher faculties of thought and reasoning, need to apply our standards of ethics.

When it comes to matters such as homosexuality, promiscuity (for lack of a better word for multiple sexual partners) etc., if any person were to point out that since these activities occur in the animal kingdom and hence they are natural, plenty of people (especially thiests) are quick to put them down by retorting "Humans are above animals" "And that's exactly why humans are not animals" "Humans have more mental capacity than animals"...you get the point. We are quick to apply "human standards of morality" to these activities.

I find it amusing how our superior mental capacities are then not used to also argue against the killing of animals, when we are perfectly capable of growing our food in such a manner that no human will die from hunger or even suffer from malnutritition thanks to human advancement in agricultural technology.

Our standards of morality persuade us to not kill or hurt other humans, but just because other sets of organisms who do not talk, walk or look like us, suddenly should our standards of morality/compassion stop being applicable? I find it pretty hypocritical when a human feels the pain of another human dying in another part of the world, but doesn't consider the pain of killing an animal in front of his eyes. As if our compassion is supposed to be restricted within a certain domain.

And ofcourse there's another debate to be had about energy's input/output ratio in the meat production industry.

PS: If people feel it is okay for human compassion to be restricted within a certain domain, then continuing on in the same vein, I don't see why people should get outraged when one group of humans (ethnic, religious, whatever) slaughter another group of humans. The first group just chooses to apply an even more restrictive domain on its standards of morality/compassion.

 

[RWAC]

Meat tastes really good. If something tastes really good, then eating meat must have had an evolutionary purpose.

Uhmm..so do many poisonous plants. And also, the human brain is very protein-dense. Please lead the way of human evolution.

 

[Ummer Khan]

Thank you for bringing this up.

Let's set aside the fact that animals have been proven to show human emotions such as fear, empathy, love. Let's also set aside the fact that it will be rare to find instances of a higher-order organism trapping a lower-order organism and 'harvesting' it for food over and over again.

Do you agree that animals are sentient beings who fear death? If so, I hope you will also agree that animals would not want to die in order to become someone's food. That's where humans, with all our higher faculties of thought and reasoning, need to apply our standards of ethics.

When it comes to matters such as homosexuality, promiscuity (for lack of a better word for multiple sexual partners) etc., if any person were to point out that since these activities occur in the animal kingdom and hence they are natural, plenty of people (especially thiests) are quick to put them down by retorting "Humans are above animals" "And that's exactly why humans are not animals" "Humans have more mental capacity than animals"...you get the point. We are quick to apply "human standards of morality" to these activities.

I find it amusing how our superior mental capacities are then not used to also argue against the killing of animals, when we are perfectly capable of growing our food in such a manner that no human will die from hunger or even suffer from malnutritition thanks to human advancement in agricultural technology.

Our standards of morality persuade us to not kill or hurt other humans, but just because other sets of organisms who do not talk, walk or look like us, suddenly should our standards of morality/compassion stop being applicable? I find it pretty hypocritical when a human feels the pain of another human dying in another part of the world, but doesn't consider the pain of killing an animal in front of his eyes. As if our compassion is supposed to be restricted within a certain domain.

And ofcourse there's another debate to be had about energy's input/output ratio in the meat production industry.

PS: If people feel it is okay for human compassion to be restricted within a certain domain, then continuing on in the same vein, I don't see why people should get outraged when one group of humans (ethnic, religious, whatever) slaughter another group of humans. The first group just chooses to apply an even more restrictive domain on its standards of morality/compassion.

polygamy or polyandry

 

[Ummer Khan]

RWAC, what do you have to say about the top carnivores like lions and other big cats, who feed exclusively on other small animals?

 

[RWAC]

polygamy or polyandry

Thanks but I did not mean/want to use polygamy or polyandry - those are still 'legalized' in the human code of morality by way of religious scriptures and marriage.

I meant more along the line of a polyamorous relation with multiple sexual partners outside the realm of marriage.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The moral argument for not eating meat makes perfect sense. There is really no excuse in today's world for killing animals to eat meat. It's a savage and barbaric practice, plain and simple. We, including me, have leaned to desensitize ourselves so we don't have to make any sacrifices and give up something we are so addicted to. The society we live in encourages meat eating. We do not look down on meat eaters, in fact the vegans are considered the weird ones.

I feel this will change with time. Just like slavery was once considered fine, meat eating will also fade away and once the majority goes against it, the minority will have no option but to get in line. A few hundred years from now, people will look at our times the same way we look at the stone ages. In the meantime, let us enjoy our steaks, our chicken tikka's, our seekh kababs, burgers etc. while we can. Our last connection with our prehistoric roots.

Such a cop out. If you really believe eating meat is barbaric, why on earth would you continue to do so? In the age of enlightenment you still want to wait a few hundred years for future generations to make the decision? :Angel_ani

 

[Ummer Khan]

Thanks but I did not mean/want to use polygamy or polyandry - those are still 'legalized' in the human code of morality by way of religious scriptures and marriage.

I meant more along the line of a polyamorous relation with multiple sexual partners outside the realm of marriage.

oh, I suppose you were looking for the technical term for cheating.

 

[RWAC]

RWAC, what do you have to say about the top carnivores like lions and other big cats, who feed exclusively on other small animals?

I'll keep it short to avoid being repetitive.

Two points. First, they hunt and kill in the wild. They don't capture their prey and force them to reproduce for more food like we do.

But more importantly,, those higher-order carnivores do not posses the same mental capabilities as humans. A lion does not have the brains to figure out where else to get its food from. We humans have put men on the freakin moon. We can produce enough through agriculture for all of us to be well fed. Instead of applying our technological advancements towards techniques of artificially inseminating animals, feeding them until they can't stand under their own weight, and mercilessly slaughtering them, I think we should apply our standards of compassion to them. Only because we are capable of doing so, and they are not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RWAC]

oh, I suppose you were looking for the technical term for cheating.

Haha see that's what I meant. You labelled it as 'cheating', while such relations are quite common in the animal world.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ummer Khan]

I'll keep it short to avoid being repetitive.

Two points. First, they hunt and kill in the wild. They don't capture their prey and force them to reproduce for more food like we do.

But more importantly,, those higher-order carnivores do not posses the same mental capabilities as humans. A lion does not have the brains to figure out where else to get its food from. We humans have put men on the freakin moon. We can produce enough through agriculture for all of us to be well fed. Instead of applying our technological advancements towards techniques of artificially inseminating animals, feeding them until they can't stand under their own weight, and mercilessly slaughtering them, I think we should apply our standards of compassion to them. Only because we are capable of doing so, and they are not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My friend, why do you fail to understand that we are classified as animals.

Having superior thinking abilities does not mean that we no longer have those primal instincts. Killing other animaks for food is hard wired into our brains.

From the evolutionary point of view, acquiring higher thinking was primarily meant to make us effective killing machines, to find us better tools and foods for our survival AND not for laying down the rules and the constitutions.

Your argument about technological advancements is flawed. Let me ask you one thing, how would you respond if you were to live by getting your nutrition (artificial) through parentral means or feeding tubes for the rest of your life (without getting any complications i mean)? How would you respond if in the near future, human reproduction would be achieved in the labs.? Would you consider sexual means redundant then?

 

[moumotta]

Notwithstanding the clear distinction between having to kill the animal for food vs obtaining milk and wool from them while keeping them alive, I would consider any activity where animals are caused harm (physical, mental, emotional) and are treated with cruelty to be at best, avoidable.

What would you say about killing for animal products such as leather. Is the problem with any killing or only about consuming them as food after they are killed. If it is all killing then you should not be using leather belts and shoes. Heck you shouldn't be taking antibiotics and killing millions of bacteria in your gut or use pest control to kill bed bugs and other crawlies. Thing is what ever you say about humans treating animals humanely, and I am all for prevention of cruelty, when it comes to our comfort or survival we will kill other living beings. It is only a question of where one stops.

 

[Anchorman]

Whenever I feel sad about eating animals, fried chicken makes me feel so much better.

 

[Stewie]

cuz we like our steaks and chaampein and teetar bater and kukars and bakrey ki raanein aur siri paye nihari kaleji taka tak salam roast and suff...


no read all tht above and weep you poor vaginaterians.. muahahahah!

 

[Sidilicious]

This is probably one of the best arguments I've read on a forum. I eat meat, but very occasionally. In fact, off late I have come to the conclusion that vegetarian food (if cooked properly) provides more taste than non-veg. But why do I still enjoy that steak, sausage and chicken? In fact, despite the society being more moral than ever before (controversial statement, but i believe on a person to person basis, we question a lot of things like racism etc) why are we consuming more meat than ever before?

Well, in this day and age we are used to getting our meat either from supermarkets or delivered to our home. We are not used to seeing the whole process of rearing cattle/poultry and then culling them. Since we only see the end product which is well packaged, it has become a commodity without any emotions attached to it. My girlfriend, who saw the slaughter of a lamb during Eid, has stopped eating red meat, and is about to give up non-veg completely.

So, yes, I do believe that what [MENTION=6658]sad[/MENTION]ibaba said will append, and we will stop eating meat in the near future. Because if we dont, we will have to eat worms!

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141014-time-to-put-bugs-on-the-menu

 

[The_KING]

So it's ok to kill plants? I mean plants also have life.

As for why we eat meat? Because it's yummy.

 

[CricketCartoons]

cuz we like our steaks and chaampein and teetar bater and kukars and bakrey ki raanein aur siri paye nihari kaleji taka tak salam roast and suff...


no read all tht above and weep you poor vaginaterians.. muahahahah!

What is that?

 

[archetype]

Uhmm..so do many poisonous plants. And also, the human brain is very protein-dense. Please lead the way of human evolution.

There are no poisonous plants that taste good. Nature does not want to kill you.

 

[archetype]

There are very few examples. These are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[RWAC]

My friend, why do you fail to understand that we are classified as animals.

Having superior thinking abilities does not mean that we no longer have those primal instincts. Killing other animaks for food is hard wired into our brains.

From the evolutionary point of view, acquiring higher thinking was primarily meant to make us effective killing machines, to find us better tools and foods for our survival AND not for laying down the rules and the constitutions.

Your argument about technological advancements is flawed. Let me ask you one thing, how would you respond if you were to live by getting your nutrition (artificial) through parentral means or feeding tubes for the rest of your life (without getting any complications i mean)? How would you respond if in the near future, human reproduction would be achieved in the labs.? Would you consider sexual means redundant then?

That's the whole point. If we can try to morally curb our other primal instincts such as homosexuality, polyamory (what you called 'cheating'), this is another primal instinct that can be curbed too.

For a lot of actions we say we are humans, not animals so we shouldn't act in XYX manner, but then we are quick to justify eating meat as well we are animals too with primal instincts. Look at the ISIS thread - more than half of the posts are chiding them as animals for butchering humans. Why do we like to distinguish ourselves as 'not animals' (whatever that means) in this case then?

I would be totally in favor of lab-grown, synthetic meat. As for sex, if it is a willful act between consenting adults, it does not harm another being. When it does, we call it rape and punish it as a crime.

 

[RWAC]

There are no poisonous plants that taste good. Nature does not want to kill you.

There are very few examples. These are the exception rather than the rule.

I was going to start posting examples, but glad you qualified your statement.

BTW if we're talking about evolution and nature and all that, I think it should be clear that while nature does not want to kill you, it also does not want to keep you alive. Nature by itself does not 'act' in a certain direction. So while we may have evolved to be meat-eaters, evolution on its own did not push us to be so.

 

[archetype]

I was going to start posting examples, but glad you qualified your statement.

BTW if we're talking about evolution and nature and all that, I think it should be clear that while nature does not want to kill you, it also does not want to keep you alive. Nature by itself does not 'act' in a certain direction. So while we may have evolved to be meat-eaters, evolution on its own did not push us to be so.

All good points. Eating meat simply allowed us to better adapt to our environments.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's the whole point. If we can try to morally curb our other primal instincts such as homosexuality, polyamory (what you called 'cheating'), this is another primal instinct that can be curbed too.

For a lot of actions we say we are humans, not animals so we shouldn't act in XYX manner, but then we are quick to justify eating meat as well we are animals too with primal instincts. Look at the ISIS thread - more than half of the posts are chiding them as animals for butchering humans. Why do we like to distinguish ourselves as 'not animals' (whatever that means) in this case then?

I would be totally in favor of lab-grown, synthetic meat. As for sex, if it is a willful act between consenting adults, it does not harm another being. When it does, we call it rape and punish it as a crime.

This idea of lab grown synthetic meat is interesting, although it might salve our conscience in one way, there are so many other ways in which we humans inflict harm on animals. If you live in a metropolitan city, there is no doubt that local wildlife will have been wiped out as their natural habitat is destroyed to make way for roads, railways and homes. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Most medicines, cosmetics and so many other products are tested on animals. If you live in the modern world and drive a nice car, you are part of the animal cruelty problem whether vegetarian or not.

 

[RWAC]

What would you say about killing for animal products such as leather. Is the problem with any killing or only about consuming them as food after they are killed. If it is all killing then you should not be using leather belts and shoes. Heck you shouldn't be taking antibiotics and killing millions of bacteria in your gut or use pest control to kill bed bugs and other crawlies. Thing is what ever you say about humans treating animals humanely, and I am all for prevention of cruelty, when it comes to our comfort or survival we will kill other living beings. It is only a question of where one stops.

Again, killing them for leather is discourageable. The key idea is killing for our benefit. I don't know if you personally asked me this - but I try my best not to use leather or fur products.

I agree it will be impossible for us to completely stop harming other organisms, and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

But not killing multi-cellular, higher-order sentient beings may be well for a start.

Mind you, some draw the line even further than I would (Jain monks wearing masks so in order to not kill tiny air-borne insects by breathing them in).

 

[RWAC]

This idea of lab grown synthetic meat is interesting, although it might salve our conscience in one way, there are so many other ways in which we humans inflict harm on animals. If you live in a metropolitan city, there is no doubt that local wildlife will have been wiped out as their natural habitat is destroyed to make way for roads, railways and homes. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Most medicines, cosmetics and so many other products are tested on animals. If you live in the modern world and drive a nice car, you are part of the animal cruelty problem whether vegetarian or not.

I agree. A line has to be drawn somewhere between compassion and meeting human needs.

But I'm arguing the line can be pulled further inwards by at least not trying to raise them and kill them in millions when we can get by without eating them. This one step is tremendous in terms of impact when you consider the magnitude (death vs displacement) and sheer numbers of the impact.

But yes, we draw lines even when it comes to environmental protection vs human development.

Heck we even draw the line when it comes to treatment of humans. We happily buy our smart phones which may use rare minerals mined by forced child labor in some far away part of the world, but we will get disgusted when we see forced child labor happening in front of us.

So does that mean we should all be okay with employing children as labor since we seem to do so indirectly when we buy our phones?

(Also, I think the above analogy is a good corollary to the point that because we are not exposed to the process of the meat industry, we have become de-sensitized to the suffering of animals.)