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Aakash Chopra questions value of runs/wickets against Zim & weak teams in comparison to strong teams

Of course they're not.

I'd rather have Kane, Guptill score nothing against Zimbabwe, Ireland etc. and score runs against teams like Aus, India, Pakistan. No one will remember those games and frankly no one will rate those performances because they're not strong teams.

There's a reason so many here hate it when TTFs score runs against minnows to secure spots and become passengers against the stronger teams. They'd prefer to see them fail so they don't have to carry them for when they play the top teams.


My friend someone has to score runs against Minnows if all your batsmen stop scoring runs against minnows you will lose every game and the so called minnows will become cricket powerhouse..
Every run in international cricket is worth cherishing for and matters to a batsman.

Fans and players obviously would want to beat the best teams and perform against top teams that is expected but outright rely dismissing runs against lesser teams is as stupid as it gets..

Like I said the value of those runs can be less than value of a hundred against top team in difficult conditions but end of the day they still are international runs just like in any other sport.
 
My friend someone has to score runs against Minnows if all your batsmen stop scoring runs against minnows you will lose every game and the so called minnows will become cricket powerhouse..
Every run in international cricket is worth cherishing for and matters to a batsman.

Fans and players obviously would want to beat the best teams and perform against top teams that is expected but outright rely dismissing runs against lesser teams is as stupid as it gets..

Like I said the value of those runs can be less than value of a hundred against top team in difficult conditions but end of the day they still are international runs just like in any other sport.

If runs should hold the same value, why there is differentiation between victory against minnows and top teams.... That too systematically? Why victories aren't given equal importance?
 
If runs should hold the same value, why there is differentiation between victory against minnows and top teams.... That too systematically? Why victories aren't given equal importance?

There is no differentiation currently on the rankings where it matters, that is the whole point
 
Pathetic tweet IMO.

The amount of jealousy against Pakistani team is cringeworthy.

At least, we played against a financially struggling cricket board.

We kept out word, we kept our word and we kept our word and sent them our team to play.

Unlike these haters, hypocrite, pathetic and greedy boards who don't give a darn about the great game.

Baat karte Hain ....
 
His question was right, timing was wrong, he should have tweeted it when Ind batsmen were scoring against minnows
 
That is how cricket world is. All teams cant be as good as each other and this has happened since 80s and 90s. Many players have played against poor international teams but that deosnt mean only runs against top 4 or 5 will count.

He should have tweeted about how ICC and other boards should support teams which are struggling rather than demoralizing them more by saying that they are so poor that runs or wickets shouldnt count.

Akash looks like a decent guy when I have seen him few times on screen but very irresponsible statement from him in my opinion.
 
Fakhar is a class act but that double ton vs Zims was a joke really. Akshay has a point..
 
Fakhar is a class act but that double ton vs Zims was a joke really. Akshay has a point..

If thats the case any thing against 8-9 ranked teams should be considered a joke and we should start from 90s.
 
I agree. The problem is that the same guy who tweets this also praised team India for beating Zimbabwe. And let’s just be clear, people calling this Zimbabwe side it’s B-team must realise that their A-team is no better.
 
Why are people overreacting though. I mean if he thinks it’s not fair to celebrate your achievements against minnows then what he is actually suggesting is that we are a very strong team. So chillax everyone.
 
Fakhar is a class act but that double ton vs Zims was a joke really. Akshay has a point..

Where was he when Indian players were making a mokery of Afghanistan in the test match? Vijay and Dhawan scores tons and Afghanistan were bowled out for 100 in each innings and so all Indian trundlers got a chance to improve their bowling averages.
Did these stats count? Akash Chopra is a hypocrite of the highest category.
 
Okay mister mind your own business!! Where were you when india was beating Zimbabwe Scotland Ireland and all other minnows even srilanka who are minnows in this format nowadays and india play them like thrice a year.

Lol...India never sends their premier players to Zimbabwe to peddle records. Below is the team India send when they toured Zimbabwe last time:

Rishi Dhawan
Faiz Faisal
Barinder Sran
Jaydev Unadkat
Dhawal Kulkarni
Mandeep Singh
KL Rahul (Debut)
Yuzi Chahal (Debut)
 
I would say pretty stupid comment from Chopra. Unfortunately for Indian commentators, everything is all about statistics, and they can't get their head out of stats.
 
Lol...India never sends their premier players to Zimbabwe to peddle records. Below is the team India send when they toured Zimbabwe last time:

Rishi Dhawan
Faiz Faisal
Barinder Sran
Jaydev Unadkat
Dhawal Kulkarni
Mandeep Singh
KL Rahul (Debut)
Yuzi Chahal (Debut)
Pakistan is playing Asia Cup in a few weeks time and so any sane human would pick the best team to get in full flow for the biggie.
Jeez, just because India picked a young team back then doesn’t set a benchmark for world cricket.
Pakistan would have won even with a C team in Zimbabwe. Every move has a logic. For example Yasir Shah was picked not because he is part of ODI plans but to get practice ahead of all the important test series against Aus/NZ. But this would be hard for the Dhoni worshippers to understand.
 
Is this the fastest that a non-game thread has gone to three pages
 
Pakistan is playing Asia Cup in a few weeks time and so any sane human would pick the best team to get in full flow for the biggie.
Jeez, just because India picked a young team back then doesn’t set a benchmark for world cricket.
Pakistan would have won even with a C team in Zimbabwe. Every move has a logic. For example Yasir Shah was picked not because he is part of ODI plans but to get practice ahead of all the important test series against Aus/NZ. But this would be hard for the Dhoni worshippers to understand.

How did you come to the conclusion that Cranford Cliffs is a Dhoni worshiper?
 
I do agree with him but, his timing could've been better. This just seems as if he watched Pakistan/Zimbabwe play and immediately tweeted his thoughts.
 
He has not said anything none of us was not already thinking .. but then again, it’s not just in this series, it has happened a lot of times in the past too.. if a bottom of the barrel team performs this bad, all of a sudden people start making these somments.. but nobody says the same when a top team has a bad series and es top teams do phase bad series, they are not immune to them..
 
Counting more or less value against various countries will give rise to enormous disagreements .... none of which can really be resolved ..... will be good for the couch athletics .... but that is about it !!!!!
 
India have lost a match to kenya also why did not you know about it?check your history before bringing pak stats of 15 to 20 years old



Correction: 2 matches, not 1, India is the only full ICC memeber team amongst the top 10 to have lost not only just one but two against them!

Besides that, I think Kenya have beaten WI once and that's about it
 
Correction: 2 matches, not 1, India is the only full ICC memeber team amongst the top 10 to have lost not only just one but two against them!

Besides that, I think Kenya have beaten WI once and that's about it

Kenya defeated a strong SL team as well in 2003 WC. SL reached the semis in that tournament.
 
Did he say the same when his team was slapping around a hapless inexperienced SL side at home and hitting double tons for fun, ya taali sirf ek haath se bajti hai ? :13:
 
Pakistan is playing Asia Cup in a few weeks time and so any sane human would pick the best team to get in full flow for the biggie.
Jeez, just because India picked a young team back then doesn’t set a benchmark for world cricket.
Pakistan would have won even with a C team in Zimbabwe. Every move has a logic. For example Yasir Shah was picked not because he is part of ODI plans but to get practice ahead of all the important test series against Aus/NZ. But this would be hard for the Dhoni worshippers to understand.

If you'll go by history, India never sent a full strength team to minnow tours in any condition. It will always rest the captain.

It's Raina, Dhawan or Sharma who carries the leadership.

Don't give these excuse of asia Cup. Since when teams cared about Asia cup that much? That cup became so insignificant that it was doubted whether it will be continued or not.
 
Well Zimbabwe are a really really bad team right now but this is not the first time a strong team has crushed a weak team as I said before.
 
uh so what if Fakhar scored a 200 against Zim? so what if Pakistan created some records? Have there been no other teams and players that have done the same? Where was this guy and everyone who agrees with when teams other than Pakistan were playing against Zim and other minnows. Instead of whining and moaning about it why don't these people learn to deal with it. These records will go in the history books whether they like it or not. They can create controversy out of nothing like some high school drama queens but that will change nothing. This kind of reaction was very much expected from people who can't control their jealousy, people who can't stand Pakistani batsmen being successful, people who have superiority complex, and only try to downgrade Pakistan cricket.

One more thing. Should the runs against Pandya and B. Kumar also not count? Their bowling stats are no better than Zim bowlers. It's only fitting that this should also apply to them and any other cricketer whose record is as bad as Zim players.

Sorry but the attentions are very clear when this issue is brought up only when Pakistan creates some records. Perhaps Chopra and many other people felt this way for a while now but were stupid enough to say it only when Pakistan was playing Zim-it's possible. The stupidity of some of these so called cricket fans is really astonishing. They are possibly the most cancerous fans out there, social media highlights that very well.

You can either show your jealousy and hatred or you can learn to deal with it. Clearly these people can't deal with it and that's too bad for them.
 
What might be rankling Akaash is that Fakhar Zaman holds a record that was previously held by the likes of Viv Richards. And he broke that record riding his way on a team of cricket mules. Or in other words, net bowlers.

There's two key differences between Zimbabwe and versus India hammering Zimbabwe.

No one broke a prestigious record and a full strength Zimbabwe are more challenging than this embarrassing team.

It's shameful to gloat over breaking records in victories when your opposition is several leagues below.
 
Even though I am not supporting Aakash here, we do have our share of "Does runs against an X team count" threads on PP regularly. So I don't see anything wrong in What Aakash said. Like all of us have opinions, he does too.
 
The zim side which was thrashed by sachin defeated pak in pak in a test series.
It's not a necessity to bring up sachin's stats everywhere, just shows the insecurity.
 
Here in india no one gives **** to this aakash chopra and he is trending here because of just one tweet.
 
Here in india no one gives **** to this aakash chopra and he is trending here because of just one tweet.

Ain't this was BIG 3 supposed to do??

This Akash Chopra's comments is all rubbish. Don't forget Pakistan team is also new. Tell me how many in the team except for Malik,Junaid and Sarfaraz even played 40+ ODIs.

Shows the impact this young pak team has made that people think they are established players with everyone has played 100+ ODIs. Even Zimbabwe players have played more ODI's than our entire squad.

Really laughable comments by some random Akash Chopra player who nobody knows in world cricket.
 
Not by 180 runs, but a top-ranked team has lost a world cup final with 30 overs to spare.

So is India not a top ranked team?

We lost to an Aussie team which went on to become the GOAT.

You lost to your greatest rivals who were ranked eighth coming into the tournament.
 
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So is India not a top ranked team?

We lost to an Aussie team which went on to become the GOAT.

You lost to your greatest rivals who were ranked eighth coming into the tournament.

Your question was not 'Has a top-ranked team ever lost an ICC final by 180 runs before to a team which went on to become the GOAT and/or also its greatest rival who are ranked below?'
 
Your question was not 'Has a top-ranked team ever lost an ICC final by 180 runs before to a team which went on to become the GOAT and/or also its greatest rival who are ranked below?'

Look at the original post you quoted

‘Has a top-ranked team ever lost an ICC final by 180 runs before?’

To which your reply was :

Not by 180 runs,but a top ranked team has lost the world cup final with 30 overs to spare.’

Now,you tell me is India not a top ranked team?And did it not lose an ICC final by 180 runs?Because you’re implying that they are not a top ranked side.

I accept that a top ranked side lost the World Cup final with 30 overs to spare.
 
To be honest with you I rather loose watching some overs of match between Pakistan and Zimbabwe than say India vs south Africa. Aakash Chopra has made a fair point . This is like killing international cricket
 
Honestly, a bit tired of all the posts and stuff on the situation of us doing well against a weaker team. It's not a long-term thing to be happy about and of course doesn't warrant chest thumping but what else were we supposed to do against Zimbabwe? Roll over and let them beat in a few games so that people would have something to look forward to?

It's simple as that. You play a team that's in front of you to play, and you try to dominate them to the best of your abilities. If they aren't good enough, it's not your fault.

For years and years, we have struggled to dominate teams which have been even weaker than Zimbabwe. The hunger and desire to decimate the opposition has never been there for us. Heck even in our strongest era we lost to weak teams due to complacency. We have lost home series to teams that were on paper at least much weaker than us but we've managed to put rabbits back in the hat and ended up having hurtful defeats.

There's a level-playing field in cricket within a match (most times except when conditions offer massive advantage like late-evening due, early morning moisture), but overall there's no level-playing field in cricket. Indian pitches have been notoriously batting friendly, Pakistan was a batting heaven where no one would get out - some of our very average teams have visited India and created batting records. Our first 300 plus chases have come against India and what not. When the same players come back, they are total duds, hello says Nasir Jamshed - who appeared like the second coming of Bradman once upon a time but now is only famous for eating parathas, having links to bookies, and a parody twitter account.

Just because Fakhar has batted well against a weak opposition and piled up runs doesn't require any discussion. I've not enjoyed cricket as well, but I've enjoyed the domination that we've had. As a cricket fan, sometimes you need that. Our team goes to Australia and we're handed beating after beating and we've to live with that. This time in UAE when we took them to the cleaners, it was satisfying to watch. Maybe the cricket would be more enjoyable if it had more hair-raising moments in it but sometimes it's equally enjoyable to have a plain sea to sail into. You don't need a rollercoaster ride to get your adrenaline working, sometimes you need the quite comfort of a swing set on a nice breezy summer evening.

The records will continue to tumble and change, maybe Prithvi Shaw will make a debut and get to thousand runs in 15 games or even less. Maybe someone else would pop up, play a series against some really weak teams and change everything else. A team like South Africa visiting Sri Lanka isn't really a challenge over there after the personnel change within that team, should wickets against them be removed out of the records of Sri Lankan seamers.

Fakhar has played back-to-back 5 odis and scored runs. Imam has done the same and filled his boots. Does it offer a sneak peak into their future? No. Does it make them quality cricketers who'd be rememberd long after they have retired for the heroics of this series? No. The cricket records are seen by cricket nerds, and they don't need an asterik against any achievement. We know the stories behind the numbers and our assumptions are always there no matter what record is there.

This has been a drab of a series, but I've loved that we've learned to be ruthless and dominate. And that we didn't put the foot away from the pedal and become complacent after we sealed the series. It's a sign that we are going in the right direction. It's a sign that our players want to win and continue winning. A winning team/individual makes the sports boring. Mere mortals can't compete Federer, not his fault, Australian team won three worldcups on the bounce, not their fault.

Get used to the winning culture. If these players fail in the Asia cup, or if Imam never ever makes a century again, it doesn't take it away from him that in this series he got the best out of Zimbabwe. That's what it is, not a sign of the future, now a prelude of great things to come, but a five match series where we did well and that's all.

Now if we are removing runs and wickets and what not, then start it from the days when the sports started. Or create a new filter on cricinfo and live with that.

Ajeeb science daan saaray hi.
 
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Honestly, a bit tired of all the posts and stuff on the situation of us doing well against a weaker team. It's not a long-term thing to be happy about and of course doesn't warrant chest thumping but what else were we supposed to do against Zimbabwe? Roll over and let them beat in a few games so that people would have something to look forward to?

It's simple as that. You play a team that's in front of you to play, and you try to dominate them to the best of your abilities. If they aren't good enough, it's not your fault.

For years and years, we have struggled to dominate teams which have been even weaker than Zimbabwe. The hunger and desire to decimate the opposition has never been there for us. Heck even in our strongest era we lost to weak teams due to complacency. We have lost home series to teams that were on paper at least much weaker than us but we've managed to put rabbits back in the hat and ended up having hurtful defeats.

There's a level-playing field in cricket within a match (most times except when conditions offer massive advantage like late-evening due, early morning moisture), but overall there's no level-playing field in cricket. Indian pitches have been notoriously batting friendly, Pakistan was a batting heaven where no one would get out - some of our very average teams have visited India and created batting records. Our first 300 plus chases have come against India and what not. When the same players come back, they are total duds, hello says Nasir Jamshed - who appeared like the second coming of Bradman once upon a time but now is only famous for eating parathas, having links to bookies, and a parody twitter account.

Just because Fakhar has batted well against a weak opposition and piled up runs doesn't require any discussion. I've not enjoyed cricket as well, but I've enjoyed the domination that we've had. As a cricket fan, sometimes you need that. Our team goes to Australia and we're handed beating after beating and we've to live with that. This time in UAE when we took them to the cleaners, it was satisfying to watch. Maybe the cricket would be more enjoyable if it had more hair-raising moments in it but sometimes it's equally enjoyable to have a plain sea to sail into. You don't need a rollercoaster ride to get your adrenaline working, sometimes you need the quite comfort of a swing set on a nice breezy summer evening.

The records will continue to tumble and change, maybe Prithvi Shaw will make a debut and get to thousand runs in 15 games or even less. Maybe someone else would pop up, play a series against some really weak teams and change everything else. A team like South Africa visiting Sri Lanka isn't really a challenge over there after the personnel change within that team, should wickets against them be removed out of the records of Sri Lankan seamers.

Fakhar has played back-to-back 5 odis and scored runs. Imam has done the same and filled his boots. Does it offer a sneak peak into their future? No. Does it make them quality cricketers who'd be rememberd long after they have retired for the heroics of this series? No. The cricket records are seen by cricket nerds, and they don't need an asterik against any achievement. We know the stories behind the numbers and our assumptions are always there no matter what record is there.

This has been a drab of a series, but I've loved that we've learned to be ruthless and dominate. And that we didn't put the foot away from the pedal and become complacent after we sealed the series. It's a sign that we are going in the right direction. It's a sign that our players want to win and continue winning. A winning team/individual makes the sports boring. Mere mortals can't compete Federer, not his fault, Australian team won three worldcups on the bounce, not there fault.

Get used to the winning culture. If these players fail in the Asia cup, or if Imam never ever makes a century again, it doesn't take it away from him that in this series he got the best out of Zimbabwe. That's what it is, not a sign of the future, now a prelude of great things to come, but a five match series where we did well and that's all.

Now if we are removing runs and wickets and what not, then start it from the days when the sports started. Or create a new filter on cricinfo and live with that.

Ajeeb science daan saaray hi.

You are missing the bigger picture that is opposite view is trying to say.

It's more in the lines of, why make a schedule like this where you have to play 5 odi matches against a Zimbabwe C team? Ofcourse records will crumble when you play against gully cricketers who happen to be wearing international colors. But more blame goes to the administration who have failed to make a proper ftp.
 
You are missing the bigger picture that is opposite view is trying to say.

It's more in the lines of, why make a schedule like this where you have to play 5 odi matches against a Zimbabwe C team? Ofcourse records will crumble when you play against gully cricketers who happen to be wearing international colors. But more blame goes to the administration who have failed to make a proper ftp.

There's no bigger picture to see here.

When the series was scheduled no one knew that Zimbabwe's team would be devoid of it's few remaining star players because the'd fail to qualify for the worldcup. Things would have been totally different had they not last to UAE in a crucial match.

Pakistan can't have a good ftp when the biggest and best team in the world refuses to play against them and every other country except new zealand is buys rn which they played at the start of the year.
 
Chopra is right.

A different set of statistics should be used for bottom 5 teams in rankings.
 
You are missing the bigger picture that is opposite view is trying to say.

It's more in the lines of, why make a schedule like this where you have to play 5 odi matches against a Zimbabwe C team? Ofcourse records will crumble when you play against gully cricketers who happen to be wearing international colors. But more blame goes to the administration who have failed to make a proper ftp.

5 ODIs weren't scheduled earlier, it was 3 match series.

2 match Test series was cancelled and Aus LOIs tour also which led to tri series and 5 match ODI series
 
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You are missing the bigger picture that is opposite view is trying to say.

It's more in the lines of, why make a schedule like this where you have to play 5 odi matches against a Zimbabwe C team? Ofcourse records will crumble when you play against gully cricketers who happen to be wearing international colors. But more blame goes to the administration who have failed to make a proper ftp.

If Pakistan lost a game or two vsing this Zimbabwean side I don't think you'd shut up about it. But since we're creating records against this side you're on the defensive. Pathetic really.
 
So people are comparing a depleted Zimbabwe attack to Sri Lanka and Australia just to make this week's minnow-bashing look respectable? Ridiculous. :facepalm:
 
Pakistan beat SL 5-0 and Australia twice in the T20 tr-series.

NZ beat Pakistan 5-0, and they will beat Zimbabwe 5-0 too. Does that make Pakistan comparable to Zimbabwe?

This Zimbabwe squad is several leagues below Sri Lanka or Australia and anyone disputing this is too desperate to glorify minnow-bashing.
 
NZ beat Pakistan 5-0, and they will beat Zimbabwe 5-0 too. Does that make Pakistan comparable to Zimbabwe?

This Zimbabwe squad is several leagues below Sri Lanka or Australia and anyone disputing this is too desperate to glorify minnow-bashing.

Get over that 5-0 loss. It was not the first time a team got whitewashed. However, it seems like some posters will keep it mentioning in every thread.

I am not even glorifying Zimbabwe bashing. I look at the overall progress. Pakistan's limited overs cricket is going in the right direction since Sarfraz took over. Only a fool will deny that.
 
Aakash Chopra is right. Unfortunately only with Pakistan you'll find they would put out a full strength side against such a poor side.

It was a great chance to test bench strength with the likes of Sahibzada, Talat, Shaheen (who should be in the first XI) and etc particularly with whoever our second choice of wicket keeper is. A real waste of a series.

Barring NZ, Pakistan of late in LOIs has only been playing minnows (against b and c grade teams) and it's getting ridiculous now to say the least.
 
Aakash Chopra is right. Unfortunately only with Pakistan you'll find they would put out a full strength side against such a poor side.

It was a great chance to test bench strength with the likes of Sahibzada, Talat, Shaheen (who should be in the first XI) and etc particularly with whoever our second choice of wicket keeper is. A real waste of a series.

Barring NZ, Pakistan of late in LOIs has only been playing minnows (against b and c grade teams) and it's getting ridiculous now to say the least.

I can understand this line of criticism. Yes they should have used this opportunity to take some chances and try some new faces
 
Get over that 5-0 loss. It was not the first time a team got whitewashed. However, it seems like some posters will keep it mentioning in every thread.

I am not even glorifying Zimbabwe bashing. I look at the overall progress. Pakistan's limited overs cricket is going in the right direction since Sarfraz took over. Only a fool will deny that.

Notice how no one brings up the 4-0-1 whitewash of India also in NZ.
 
Aakash Chopra is right. Unfortunately only with Pakistan you'll find they would put out a full strength side against such a poor side.

It was a great chance to test bench strength with the likes of Sahibzada, Talat, Shaheen (who should be in the first XI) and etc particularly with whoever our second choice of wicket keeper is. A real waste of a series.

Barring NZ, Pakistan of late in LOIs has only been playing minnows (against b and c grade teams) and it's getting ridiculous now to say the least.

Full strength?? This is team full of players who debuted in last 12 months or so.

Imam Nov 2017
Fakhar June 2017
Babar Sep 2015
Faheem June 2017
Shadab April 2017

Now if we exclude Hafeez, who has not played a single game this series, then total number of ODI's of this current Pakistan squad is : 377

On the other hand, the total number of ODI's played by Zimbabwe players who played in this series is : 512

Now, what Pakistan team management was supposed to do??? give debuts to 11 players.:afridi1
 
Full strength?? This is team full of players who debuted in last 12 months or so.

Imam Nov 2017
Fakhar June 2017
Babar Sep 2015
Faheem June 2017
Shadab April 2017

Now if we exclude Hafeez, who has not played a single game this series, then total number of ODI's of this current Pakistan squad is : 377

On the other hand, the total number of ODI's played by Zimbabwe players who played in this series is : 512

Now, what Pakistan team management was supposed to do??? give debuts to 11 players.:afridi1

Excellent post. The series has provided some great batting and bowling practice to players who are still establishing themselves.
 
Manish Pandey : 6
Jasprit : 2
Raydu : 32
Dhawal Kulkarni : 6
MSD : 281

Total # of ODI experience India had when they visited Zimbabwe was 340
 
Nearly all teams have embellished their records and stats while playing against Minnows. But minnows exist in all sports and if Minnows are not treated on equal footing they will never improve. And then there is the case of helpful pitches made to heavily favor the home side. For example Srilanka has decided to make extreme spin pitches and they are destroying teams like Australia & South Africa. Same goes for Indian home pitches flat dead wickets with an occasional rank turner.
 
Nearly all teams have embellished their records and stats while playing against Minnows. But minnows exist in all sports and if Minnows are not treated on equal footing they will never improve. And then there is the case of helpful pitches made to heavily favor the home side. For example Srilanka has decided to make extreme spin pitches and they are destroying teams like Australia & South Africa. Same goes for Indian home pitches flat dead wickets with an occasional rank turner.

Indian test pitches are designed for jadeja and ashwin to inflate their wickets. I guess we can question if those wickets really count!? 😂
 
Full strength?? This is team full of players who debuted in last 12 months or so.

Imam Nov 2017
Fakhar June 2017
Babar Sep 2015
Faheem June 2017
Shadab April 2017

Now if we exclude Hafeez, who has not played a single game this series, then total number of ODI's of this current Pakistan squad is : 377

On the other hand, the total number of ODI's played by Zimbabwe players who played in this series is : 512

Now, what Pakistan team management was supposed to do??? give debuts to 11 players.:afridi1

You forgot to mention Asif and Usman, both rookies. Junaid was also making a come back.
 
That’s a question Better posed to A Chopra...

It’s not like other teams have not made hay when the sun shines.. stronger teams have beaten weaker teams and their players have benefitted from such times. Pak vs zim was not the first and won’t be the last.. yet he is supposedly “questioning” these performances.. why?

Must have something to do with frequency of playing minnows. The number of matches Pakistan plays against bottom ranked or minnow sides is ridiculous.

Not Pakistan's fault of course, but when it leads to the likes of Fakhar or Babar breaking Viv/Kohli/Amla's record, then it starts getting ridiculous.
 
Must have something to do with frequency of playing minnows. The number of matches Pakistan plays against bottom ranked or minnow sides is ridiculous.

Not Pakistan's fault of course, but when it leads to the likes of Fakhar or Babar breaking Viv/Kohli/Amla's record, then it starts getting ridiculous.

And it does not get ridiculous when Ashwin breaks all bowling records on custom made rank-turners in an era when teams are vulnerable to spin bowling?
 
Must have something to do with frequency of playing minnows. The number of matches Pakistan plays against bottom ranked or minnow sides is ridiculous.

Not Pakistan's fault of course, but when it leads to the likes of Fakhar or Babar breaking Viv/Kohli/Amla's record, then it starts getting ridiculous.

Well teams won’t come to Pakistan so we do what we can do get games. It’s irresponsible journalism. Imagine a Pakistani journalist making such weird statements about Indian team in the media.. how would you guys react?
 
Isn’t it also true that the only way India could win test series until 2002-03 or so was to play st home only? I think their away record was abysmal. Did anybody question the value of their home series wins in their overall test performances like that and ask “what’s the point of these wins if they are not going to win abroad!”?
 
And it does not get ridiculous when Ashwin breaks all bowling records on custom made rank-turners in an era when teams are vulnerable to spin bowling?

That's the reason he is not rated alongside Warne or Murali. But to Ashwin's credit, he does it against top sides, out-bowling their spinners.

The debate is breaking records while playing club level sides like Zimbabwe, so I don't know how your Ashwin example helps your case here.
 
Well teams won’t come to Pakistan so we do what we can do get games. It’s irresponsible journalism. Imagine a Pakistani journalist making such weird statements about Indian team in the media.. how would you guys react?

I disagree. I think Akash raised a fair point. Imagine an India C player who only plays minnows and breaks some Pakistani legend's record. Wouldn't it be a mockery of World Records?
 
That's the reason he is not rated alongside Warne or Murali. But to Ashwin's credit, he does it against top sides, out-bowling their spinners.

The debate is breaking records while playing club level sides like Zimbabwe, so I don't know how your Ashwin example helps your case here.

Well it’s pretty easy to all of a sudden think “how does this apply” when your own team and players are questioned isn’t it?
 
That's the reason he is not rated alongside Warne or Murali. But to Ashwin's credit, he does it against top sides, out-bowling their spinners.

The debate is breaking records while playing club level sides like Zimbabwe, so I don't know how your Ashwin example helps your case here.

Really? Ashwin was called the Bradman of bowling.

Besides, these fastest to 1000 runs, etc do not matter. Fakhar is no minnow basher. He has already played a match winning inning against India in a big final, played well in NZ when everyone else failed, played another match winning inning against Australia in the T20 tri-series final.
 
I disagree. I think Akash raised a fair point. Imagine an India C player who only plays minnows and breaks some Pakistani legend's record. Wouldn't it be a mockery of World Records?

If it’s a record between international team, it’s a record. Just like India won some tests only at home for the longest period of time and could not do crap abroad but managed to hang on to their test status..

A victory, a run, a wicket ... all legally earned is for the record books. Nobody should question the value or legality of it, plain and simple. If BCCi was not over working it’s players to death, Kohli and the likes will jump on such opportunity as well. Let’s not kid ourselves here!
 
Well it’s pretty easy to all of a sudden think “how does this apply” when your own team and players are questioned isn’t it?

It would be relevant to the thread if you accuse some Indian player of minnow bashing, something that hasn't been done yet.

Btw, records scored against club level sides have always been looked down upon, so nothing new here. Akash's suggestion is spot on. ICC really should look at limiting matches certain sides play against minnows, because all this really is getting ridiculous.
 
Isn’t it also true that the only way India could win test series until 2002-03 or so was to play st home only? I think their away record was abysmal. Did anybody question the value of their home series wins in their overall test performances like that and ask “what’s the point of these wins if they are not going to win abroad!”?

You've asked a valid question. But keep it for a different thread as both these subjects are totally different.

Here, one entity is getting beaten up right and left whilst india was seen as the standard to measure the capability of non desi teams since india was such a home track bully.

Zimbabwe serves no such purpose. It isn't home track bully or away.
 
Really? Ashwin was called the Bradman of bowling.

Besides, these fastest to 1000 runs, etc do not matter. Fakhar is no minnow basher. He has already played a match winning inning against India in a big final, played well in NZ when everyone else failed, played another match winning inning against Australia in the T20 tri-series final.

Which is all true, Fakhar is an exciting talent indeed. But you need to stop looking at Akash's tweet from a jazbaati perspective. No one can take away Fakhar's worthy performances, he smashed India in CT final and we respect that.

Akash's point here is something totally different. He sees such long series against minnows as a joke and refuse to recognise world records against them. Sounds fair.
 
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If it’s a record between international team, it’s a record. Just like India won some tests only at home for the longest period of time and could not do crap abroad but managed to hang on to their test status..

A victory, a run, a wicket ... all legally earned is for the record books. Nobody should question the value or legality of it, plain and simple. If BCCi was not over working it’s players to death, Kohli and the likes will jump on such opportunity as well. Let’s not kid ourselves here!

If a win is a win, why such differentiation exists where top team gains nothing (almost) by defeating a lower ranked team?

The value of matches against minnow is already lowered by ICC ranking system.

Hence it was evident that people will start questioning the value of runs or wickets against the minnow.

The more it goes on, more backlash it will get.

And to be fair, no one plays against more minnows than Pakistan.
 
Rich coming from India who's batters averages are based on pumelling minnows on home flat tracks.

It's a shame that stats will show that India barely ever invites minnows and when we play them away, it is usually our second or third squad representing us.
 
You've asked a valid question. But keep it for a different thread as both these subjects are totally different.

Here, one entity is getting beaten up right and left whilst india was seen as the standard to measure the capability of non desi teams since india was such a home track bully.

Zimbabwe serves no such purpose. It isn't home track bully or away.
What you call different, I call double standards..

In either case questions are being raised about the value of a team. Pakistan simply played their best against an opposition they were obligated to play at their home with players who are not exactly well established stars, as someone mentioned they have not a whole lot of ODIs between them compared to well established sides. They did not force the top tier zim players to pull out. They did not have the luxury of making wickets best suited for their players as India mostly has that option at home.
Most of the players that contributed to the record breaking show are those finding their feet in international cricket and trying to cement their spots in the team. If Fakhar has not played well in CT and scored that century against India in the final some of the same people like you who are now questioning his performances as if he is Viv Richards playing against Namibia, would have dismissed him as a fluke.


Bhai besharmi ki bhi koi hud hoti hai.. kissi Taraf to aram se kharey ho.

You guys are like that guy shifting his weight on left foot and the right foot after a few minutes depending on which foot is hurting more. Try to put equal weight in both feet and then maybe we can have a fair discussion..
 
What you call different, I call double standards..

In either case questions are being raised about the value of a team. Pakistan simply played their best against an opposition they were obligated to play at their home with players who are not exactly well established stars, as someone mentioned they have not a whole lot of ODIs between them compared to well established sides. They did not force the top tier zim players to pull out. They did not have the luxury of making wickets best suited for their players as India mostly has that option at home.
Most of the players that contributed to the record breaking show are those finding their feet in international cricket and trying to cement their spots in the team. If Fakhar has not played well in CT and scored that century against India in the final some of the same people like you who are now questioning his performances as if he is Viv Richards playing against Namibia, would have dismissed him as a fluke.


Bhai besharmi ki bhi koi hud hoti hai.. kissi Taraf to aram se kharey ho.

You guys are like that guy shifting his weight on left foot and the right foot after a few minutes depending on which foot is hurting more. Try to put equal weight in both feet and then maybe we can have a fair discussion..

OK. I'll explain this.

To have a double standard, you need to have the same criterias and then make different conclusion based upon convenience.

Here we have,

1. India of 2000s who was poor away but invincible at home.

And

2. Zimbabwe who has abysmal record both home and away.

And when I show the difference, you are calling it as a shifting goalpost?

You dont have the same criterias to compare in the first place.
 
I can't wait for the Asia cup so we can finally settle this debate. I for one believe Pakistan will step up and deliver. We still owe Bangladesh a hiding for that humiliating series in 2015.
 
Why don’t you guys prove that India always plays third or second stringers against minnows? I would like to know how many players have debuted for India in such games? Keep in mind india has an established batting order with dhawan, Sharma, Kohli, rahane, etc. Pakistan does not. If India rests its top batsmen who have so many games under their belt it makes sense. It doesn’t for Pakistan. The players need experience. Whether it’s poor teams or not is irrelevant.

But I would still like to see indian squads against poorer opposition in recent times.
 
OK. I'll explain this.

To have a double standard, you need to have the same criterias and then make different conclusion based upon convenience.

Here we have,

1. India of 2000s who was poor away but invincible at home.

And

2. Zimbabwe who has abysmal record both home and away.

And when I show the difference, you are calling it as a shifting goalpost?



You dont have the same criterias to compare in the first place.

You do realize your guy put in the first goal posts, right? So why can’t I put mine a little differently just because the end result for both sides is the same.. questioning the legality of the goal scored!! 😀
 
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