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Ahmed Shehzad vs Ajinkya Rahane : The better future prospect?

Shehzad has scored tons in the Test matches he has played, only 3 Tests so far. Wait till he plays more, he'll score in those too.

He's already better than Rahane in ODIs with centuries against SA in SA. No logic says he won't score in Tests when he gets a chance to play Tests.
 
Pakistani_Legend said:
Shahzad opens the batting and you need technique to score in any format while opening. Dhoni bats at #6/7 and it is not necessary to have a Bradman-esque technique at that position to score.

Also, I would take a player without technique who scores runs over a player who has great technique but doesn't score. The latter might become better in the long run but we are comparing them on their present performance.
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I said he might be good odi player.....although strike rate of 70 doesn't suggest.....talking about test....some overseas tours will give a better picture
 
giri26 said:
Dhoni is a captain who mostly thinks in ODI mode....That's the reason he likes Jaddu better...Jadeja is merely used by Dhoni to stop runs and pick up odd wickets here and there so that he can attack with the fast bowlers. He does not know how to handle a attacking spinner overseas...In India it becomes easier for him due to the pitches. That's the reason he plays Jaddu over Ashwin...There is no other reason for this. India are basically playing with 3 bowlers with one bowler not bowling enough overs and the other one not picking wickets. So Bhuvi, Shami and Ishant are the only ones taking any wickets for India.
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Ok sir, to each his own. I understand you are an Ashwin fanboy. I despise him. Not his bowling, not his commitment, but his attitude (Fernando Torres comment - you remember?) and absolute lack of intent in fielding. Ok, so now Dhoni thinks in ODI mode? Even if I agree, i think that is the reason why, he gave 1st pref to Ashwin in Aus and 1st test in SA but Ashwin did not deliver and Jaddu did in the second test. Simple. Tomorrow if Jaddu fails, Ashwin will fall back into contention. 3 bowlers? We have not been able to take 20 wickets with 5 bowlers. Thank god you did not say "Bhuvi,Shami, Ishant and Binny are taking wickets"!
 
EliteCynic said:
Ok sir, to each his own. I understand you are an Ashwin fanboy. I despise him. Not his bowling, not his commitment, but his attitude (Fernando Torres comment - you remember?) and absolute lack of intent in fielding. Ok, so now Dhoni thinks in ODI mode? Even if I agree, i think that is the reason why, he gave 1st pref to Ashwin in Aus and 1st test in SA but Ashwin did not deliver and Jaddu did in the second test. Simple. Tomorrow if Jaddu fails, Ashwin will fall back into contention. 3 bowlers? We have not been able to take 20 wickets with 5 bowlers. Thank god you did not say "Bhuvi,Shami, Ishant and Binny are taking wickets"!
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I am not fanboy of anyone....I do not hate anyone as much as you do...Cricket is a team game and people represent India...They are not representing your state or my state...No need to get worked up here...We are just having proper discussion and we don't have to agree on everything. Obviously all the wickets for now has been picked up by Bhuvi, Shami and Ishant...Why would I say Binny as he hasn't bowled enough anyways...We can agree to disagree...In the end we are trying to see the best team picked...My favorite and your favorite does not count.

Jadeja did a good job for India in the Lord's test but again he has not done anything of note since the 6 wicket haul in SA....As long as India keep winning and people contribute I don't care who is playing in the team. I thought we are just discussing the pros and cons of playing Ashwin over Jadeja..
 
Rahane has played now 3 brilliant knocks in tough conditions. SA, NZ and then in Eng. Most batsmen go through entire career without playing knocks like what he played on green pitch on first day at Lords.

Knocks like these shows the quality of batsman. People get too much involved in centuries, averages etc but brilliant knocks are the ones you remember as fan. That's why I liked KP.

On Topic: It's better to not compare records of any two players unless they have played reasonable amount of cricket. If I am right then both have played even less than 10 tests. If you are talking about potential by watching them bat then it's a different thing.
 
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giri26 said:
I am not fanboy of anyone....I do not hate anyone as much as you do...Cricket is a team game and people represent India...They are not representing your state or my state...No need to get worked up here...We are just having proper discussion and we don't have to agree on everything. Obviously all the wickets for now has been picked up by Bhuvi, Shami and Ishant...Why would I say Binny as he hasn't bowled enough anyways...We can agree to disagree...In the end we are trying to see the best team picked...My favorite and your favorite does not count.

Jadeja did a good job for India in the Lord's test but again he has not done anything of note since the 6 wicket haul in SA....As long as India keep winning and people contribute I don't care who is playing in the team. I thought we are just discussing the pros and cons of playing Ashwin over Jadeja..
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Saar, I'm not getting worked up. On the contrary, I think you are. Fact of the matter is that Ashwin is from my state, so the point of 'my state' is moot. I respect your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

Agree, Jaddu hasnt done much after that 6 wkt haul, but atleast he did something. Now, that we are doing well, team management would think, why fix something which ain't broken, plus Jaddu has shown, he can take the game away from the opposition in 20 mins with the bat. Hence, I said, Ashwin would have to wait for his turn or hope that Jaddu performs really badly.

My real grouse is selection based on merit, which is where i don't think both Ashwin and Jadeja are the No 1 spinners in India. It is their batting which is giving them an edge.
 
EliteCynic said:
Saar, I'm not getting worked up. On the contrary, I think you are. Fact of the matter is that Ashwin is from my state, so the point of 'my state' is moot. I respect your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

Agree, Jaddu hasnt done much after that 6 wkt haul, but atleast he did something. Now, that we are doing well, team management would think, why fix something which ain't broken, plus Jaddu has shown, he can take the game away from the opposition in 20 mins with the bat. Hence, I said, Ashwin would have to wait for his turn or hope that Jaddu performs really badly.

My real grouse is selection based on merit, which is where i don't think both Ashwin and Jadeja are the No 1 spinners in India. It is their batting which is giving them an edge.
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Okay great
 
Straight_Drive said:
well we will only find that out once pakistan tour england......Bhuvi has a pretty solid technique.....can't really say that about shehzad
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Scoring tons in NZ and SA, even if in ODI cricket requires technique.I thought you would know all about it.:p
 
Hawkeye said:
Shehzad has scored tons in the Test matches he has played, only 3 Tests so far. Wait till he plays more, he'll score in those too.

He's already better than Rahane in ODIs with centuries against SA in SA. No logic says he won't score in Tests when he gets a chance to play Tests.
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Good post.If his game is anything to go by ,he is actually more suited for test cricket.Has fantastic temperament for one thing and has scored tons against the likes of Styen and Co in SA, which proves that he has good enough technique.
 
Arsal_AK said:
Scoring tons in NZ and SA, even if in ODI cricket requires technique.I thought you would know all about it.:p
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well i can rebut that statement by mentioning a few mediocre players who have century in odi in sa and nz ( a few come to mind)...but no point arguing over that...like i said technique will be fully tested in overseas conditions ....let's wait and watch
 
Shehzad is probably the only current young Pakistani batsmen who hasn't regressed. He is a bit slow and can't rotate strike but he is improving and he likes hundreds. His progress has been steady and good.

That said, Rahane as a test player is probably in the top 5 young batsmen right now.

Pujara
Williamson
Rahane
Warner
Root

Yep Kohli is not there yet.
 
leatherface58 said:
Shehzad is probably the only current young Pakistani batsmen who hasn't regressed. He is a bit slow and can't rotate strike but he is improving and he likes hundreds. His progress has been steady and good.

That said, Rahane as a test player is probably in the top 5 young batsmen right now.

Pujara
Williamson
Rahane
Warner
Root

Yep Kohli is not there yet.
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Warner is like Mathews, he's not young anymore. I think Smith should be there
 
Both are WOP so n o point wasting time arguing who's better.
 
leatherface58 said:
Shehzad is probably the only current young Pakistani batsmen who hasn't regressed. He is a bit slow and can't rotate strike but he is improving and he likes hundreds. His progress has been steady and good.

That said, Rahane as a test player is probably in the top 5 young batsmen right now.

Pujara
Williamson
Rahane
Warner
Root

Yep Kohli is not there yet.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't consider Warner young.
 
time to close this thread ...what a mismatch....shehzad can't face sri lankan trundlers and here he is compared to rahane who can score on green tops....lol...rahane is different league...try rohit sharma...i bet even he might come out on top:))):)))
 
Rohit is much better than RAhane in India.

No denying that.

Rahane probably couldn't get 200 in ODI game.
 
This will become just like the kumar and junaid thread. Update and bump the moment one makes a fifty. :facepalm: :facepalm:
 
HAHAHAHAHA [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] :133: phainty lag gahi bachay.

Well played. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Rohit is much better than RAhane in India.

No denying that.

Rahane probably couldn't get 200 in ODI game.
Click to expand...

True as of now.

Have you noticed NO ONE in this world is rating that 200?

No one talks about Rohit as a double century maker. Bring his name and all fans have this expression:

:)))
 
Rahane will surpass him in ODI's too, one hell of a batsmen, he just needs to back himself and his ability.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
True as of now.

Have you noticed NO ONE in this world is rating that 200?

No one talks about Rohit as a double century maker. Bring his name and all fans have this expression:

:)))
Click to expand...

Because after that 200 he has fallen away a bit.

I think most of Rohit's issues are mental than ability wise.

He seems to get those mental blocks.

Honestly I saw that 200, and it wasn't even slogging.

It was pitch perfect drives and shots which were a treat to watch.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Rohit is much better than RAhane in India.

No denying that.

Rahane probably couldn't get 200 in ODI game.
Click to expand...

Rahane and Rohit will be a close affair in ODIs in India in the long term, yes.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Because after that 200 he has fallen away a bit.

I think most of Rohit's issues are mental than ability wise.

He seems to get those mental blocks.

Honestly I saw that 200, and it wasn't even slogging.

It was pitch perfect drives and shots which were a treat to watch.
Click to expand...

I don't think people rate innings that way.

If its good, they always talk about it.

Ishant too had fallen away after Perth 2008 but it didn't make people not rate that spell. Still people rate it.

Maybe the hopeless pitch made people not rate it. Even Sachin's and Sehwag's 200 aren't rated that high but Rohit's - no one even bothers to mention it.
 
And Rohit has serious technical issues that prevents him from playing swing properly.

Can anyone name 1 innings of Rohit where he played out a great session of swing bowling from quality bowlers.

Any 1 innings.
 
Mamoon said:
:))) :))) :)))

Well. :ibutt
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Rohit is a talented batsmen, just too lazy and carefree to do his talent justice.

If he had Kohli's work ethic, he'd probably be one of the best batsmen in the world today.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
I don't think people rate innings that way.

If its good, they always talk about it.

Ishant too had fallen away after Perth 2008 but it didn't make people not rate that spell. Still people rate it.

Maybe the hopeless pitch made people not rate it. Even Sachin's and Sehwag's 200 aren't rated that high but Rohit's - no one even bothers to mention it.
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what are you smoking bro...sachin's 200 isn't rated in which universe
 
Aman said:
Rohit is a talented batsmen, just too lazy and carefree to do his talent justice.

If he had Kohli's work ethic, he'd probably be one of the best batsmen in the world today.
Click to expand...

Rohit is very talented, but Rahane trumps him in the is aspect as well.
 
Mamoon said:
Rohit is very talented, but Rahane trumps him in the is aspect as well.
Click to expand...
Rohit is more compact, hence why he'd put him ahead in terms of talent.

Rahane has been brilliant though, it's a shame Rohit hasn't knuckled down and ironed out his flaws by now.

But at the end of the day, it's performances that count, so Rahane > Rohit as of now.
 
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If you give a coaching manual to a kid and ask him to take it as Gospel, he will grow up into a Rahane provided he has a decent talent as well.

Pure batsman.
 
When someone talks about rating 200, they don't compare it with rating a regular 100 with 200.

They compare how its rated CONSIDERING its a 200.

That's a point many are missing here.
 
When someone makes 200 in a non small ground, see how it will be rated.

There are tons of Sachin innings I rate more than 200.

But I loved that 200 a lot too.

I was so tense when he was on the 190's.
 
Straight_Drive said:
200 against steyn on any track is a great innings....i like 175 more but to say 200 isn't rated much is wrong....200 is also a very high quality innings
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No doubt about it dude. It was a great innings. See post #365 and #367.

In that match, Steyn sledged Sachin.

Then Sachin played a shot that made him look stupid. It was Steyn right (that shot from outside off - flick for 4 to the leg side)

Loved that.
 
Straight_Drive said:
time to close this thread ...what a mismatch....shehzad can't face sri lankan trundlers and here he is compared to rahane who can score on green tops....lol...rahane is different league...try rohit sharma...i bet even he might come out on top:))):)))
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Why not Bhuvneshwar Kumar ?
 
One failure and we have judgements already.. wow.. good going guys :14:

And Sachin's 200 isn't rated? Well.. that's news to me
 
Its not talked about as much as Sachin's 175 or his desert storm knocks (all iconic innings).

I said it isn't rated that much. Didn't say it is not rated as in general.

And rating is relative. Of course it is considered better than many 100's and 150's but it doesn't get raved as much considering its a freaking 200.

I can't put it in any more simpler terms.

Of course, its a great innings.
 
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Another simple example for you guys:

See how many times Kapil's 175 or Sachin's 175 or Sachin's desert storm knocks are talked about when the topic of incredible innings comes into picture

And see how many times Sachin's 200 is talked about in those same discussions.

Just because A is better than B does not diminish the value of B in any way (B is pretty staggeringly amazing too).

The rating in case of that 200 is not at the level one would expect it to be considering its 200.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Another simple example for you guys:

See how many times Kapil's 175 or Sachin's 175 or Sachin's desert storm knocks are about it (when the topic of incredible innings comes into picture)

And see how many times Sachin's 200 is talked about when discussing incredible innings.

Just because A is better than B does not diminish the value of B in any way (considering B is pretty staggeringly amazing too).
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ooo bhai mere....the point of dispute was that you said it is not rated much....if other sachin's innings are rated higher doesn't mean it isn't rated much....if you don't talk about it doesn't mean others don't as well...it was an epic moment when he broke the record....everyone in India was watching...now lets not derail this thread any further...
 
Straight_Drive said:
ooo bhai mere....the point of dispute was that you said it is not rated much....if other sachin's innings are rated higher doesn't mean it isn't rated much....if you don't talk about it doesn't mean others don't as well...it was an epic moment when he broke the record....everyone in India was watching...now lets not derail this thread any further...
Click to expand...

When I said "Not rated as much", I meant considering its 200. I did clarify my point in many other posts.

Maybe I should have chosen a better phrase.

Anyways.....
 
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So this will be the story then? One person fails, bump. One person scores a fifty, bump.
This the problem with SC people, they don't give time. People like Rahane do jack all in ODIs yet he's prolly Indias next big thing next year in ODIs.
Let them both play for a year or two, rahane most likely will win this battle tho
 
Haz95 said:
So this will be the story then? Shehzad fails, bump. Rahane scores a fifty, bump.
This the problem with SC people, they don't give time. People like Rahane do jack all in ODIs yet he's prolly Indias next big thing next year in ODIs.
Let them both play for a year or two, rahane most likely will win this battle tho
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fixed :amir...expect more runs from rahane and more failures from shehzad :p
 
And he will score one in the next match in SSC. Only good for dead wickets.
 
We need flat track bullies too [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. They help dominate at home.
 
We have to give Shehzad more of a chance in Tests. He isnt in Rahanes League but still can be a decent Test bat. He does have a flawed technique but once he is in he tends to kick on and make a big one. We shouldnt write him off after 1 failure.
 
He is another grinder like Younis. Should take his spot once he YK retires. He is not a test opener though.
 
Fastandfurious said:
He is another grinder like Younis. Should take his spot once he YK retires. He is not a test opener though.
Click to expand...

What will happen when he has to face spinners. As an opener, he can avoid facing spinners for a while but as middle order, he will be exposed against spin from the get go. He would have to improve a lot against spin to play in middle order. Good thing about him is that he wants to score big runs. He is young and has time to tighten his game against spin.
 
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Warner is still young. Most of the australian batsman play their best cricket after reaching the age of 30.
 
I seem to have made a mistake by putting too much faith in Shehzad.

Doubt he'll be a success at Test level with his poor footwork, the way he plays with hard hands and inconsistency.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Not as much as his 175 and other knocks.

Its rated (cos its the first) but not much.
Click to expand...

You should say "I don't rate Sachin's 200" and not "Sachin's 200 is not rated" ..". Speak for yourself, just because you don't rate any innings does not mean others don't.
In my friend circle, we just loved that innings. It wasn't scored against a mediocre attack but against world's best. See the quality of strokes in that knock. And kindly don't bundle all Indians in making such statements.
 
Haz95 said:
So this will be the story then? One person fails, bump. One person scores a fifty, bump.
This the problem with SC people, they don't give time. People like Rahane do jack all in ODIs yet he's prolly Indias next big thing next year in ODIs.
Let them both play for a year or two, rahane most likely will win this battle tho
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that. Judge players after say, 30 tests, 50 tests etc., not after every couple of tests. Let things average out over a career. On one tour you may be out of form or got out unluckily or whatever, but let things average out over time before passing a judgment on who's better.
 
Shehzad is mediocre. Rahane excels at the art of batting.
 
Haz95 said:
So this will be the story then? One person fails, bump. One person scores a fifty, bump.
This the problem with SC people, they don't give time. People like Rahane do jack all in ODIs yet he's prolly Indias next big thing next year in ODIs.
Let them both play for a year or two, rahane most likely will win this battle tho
Click to expand...

Mamoon always does that. The guy has no clue about sports.
 
I have never rated Shehzad. Anyone who thinks he's a top class batsman in the making has no idea about cricket.
 
You can stop a quality batsman when you see one. Its not that difficult actually.
 
zubair007 said:
You should say "I don't rate Sachin's 200" and not "Sachin's 200 is not rated" ..". Speak for yourself, just because you don't rate any innings does not mean others don't.
In my friend circle, we just loved that innings. It wasn't scored against a mediocre attack but against world's best. See the quality of strokes in that knock. And kindly don't bundle all Indians in making such statements.
Click to expand...

When did I ever say I don't rate that innings bud?

I loved that innings too.

Check my posts #372 and #375.
 
Shehzad's trigger movement is forced and unnatural. Most subcontinental batsmen don't use/need the back and across trigger moment. It's mostly used and originated in England and it's very useful for those conditions.

A trigger movement should be put you in a better position to play a short, but if you don't it properly and time it inaccurately, you can't get into a good position.

Most importantly, it should be natural. Which means that you shouldn't think about it, it should be an automatic movement. If you are thinking about it and doing it deliberately, you are not supposed to use.

Shehzad didn't use it before and it's a new development. Once you bat for a certain amount of time, you cannot adopt or ditch a trigger movement. Very few batsman have tinkered with their trigger movement at the international level to good success. Cook did it in 2009-10 and Tendulkar adopted a forward press for the 2003 World Cup.

He should ditch it and go back to standing still. Looks very mechanical doing so and I am surprised that no batting coach in Pakistan is helping him on this matter.
 
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It's quite obvious to anyone who has watched the two bat that Shehzad will not reach the heights that Rahane already has on tough pitches in his short test career. He will surpass Pujara and Kohli as a test batsman, if he hasn't already. Shehzad will probably end up the better odi batsman though
 
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Shehzad - A dogged player with many limitations such as failure to rotate strike consistently, holds the bat too tight (needs to loosen his grip) hence why he is tentative early on and you can't play these "cheeky" scoop shots (watch the t20 against Bangladesh where he hardly put one scoop or paddle away) like I said needs to loosen his grip, his trigger movement (same as Cooks) back and across won't help him on slow and low wickets needs to go back to keeping still and doing 2 things keeping his head still at the point of delivery and eyes level in his stance and at the point of delivery because he has exhibited the potential to play long innings he'll find that he won't really use a trigger movement much as he goes on because everything is happening naturally and you slip into a comfort zone something he is not doing right now hence the inconsistency between innings and his game is weak against the spinners.

But saying so he has many pleasing aspects to his game such as he put's a big price on his wicket and once set will (usually make the most of it), can play the long innings (not many of our young guys have shown that), has shown the hunger and desire for runs which will hold him in good stead in the future, very strong square of the wicket anything slightly wide and he'll put you away all day (not to mention he does play some delightful square drives) and does not take pressure even if the dot balls are adding up a trait both he and Maqsood share.

Rahane - A technically correct batsman, equally good against pace and spin and tbh he looks the perfect package.

But for someone of his potential he just doesn't build on his starts, doesn't exhibit his range of strokes in ODI, don't seem like he can handle the pressure in ODI which is strange as he is surperb when it comes to Tests. Nothing much wrong with his game tbh.

Going of the small sample size so far I think Rahane will beat Shehzad in Tests and Shehzad will have Rahane's number in LOI formats. (Note: this is going off the small sample sizes and the different innings of each player I've seen so far, so my "opinion" could be proven wrong in the future!)

Rahane is too correct a player to not have a solid test career and Shehzad too dogged a player to not have a solid LOI career.

But one thing that scares me with Shehzad is that if he goes down the Upul Thranga route, loads of centuries but no substance (I say this looking at his technical problems) even Thranga had the same problems.
 
zubair007 said:
I'm with you on that. Judge players after say, 30 tests, 50 tests etc., not after every couple of tests. Let things average out over a career. On one tour you may be out of form or got out unluckily or whatever, but let things average out over time before passing a judgment on who's better.
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Exactly :)
Anfield said:
Mamoon always does that. The guy has no clue about sports.
Click to expand...

Lool. He did that a lot on the Junaid vs bhuv thread :))
 
Mamoon said:
I have never rated Shehzad. Anyone who thinks he's a top class batsman in the making has no idea about cricket.
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The only reason he's been as successful as he has is because of his hunger for runs and attention.
 
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