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Ailing ex-president Musharraf ‘wants to spend rest of his life in Pakistan’

Do you agree with the verdict of the court against Pervez Musharraf?


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you said drone attack, stop twisting it, there were no drone attacks authorised by the gov. of pak, the 2 that were made by us, were done by them and they were made to apologies and had there supplies cut off for 2 weeks,

What are you on about?

There were 101 civilian casualties through DRONE STRIKES from 2004-2007.
 
Musharraf’s legacy:

- Scoring an own goal with the Kargil attack.

- overthrowing the government because they ended his misery in Kargil to prevent further escalation.

- followed Gen. Ayub and Gen. Zia’s tradition of playing mercenary to the U.S. They did in the Cold War and he did it in the WoT.

- striking a deal with Pentagon and allowed them to conduct drone strikes in Pakistan in exchange of military equipment.

- Adopted an aggressive policy against the Baloch and killed Bugti.

- NRO.

The only good things that he did was the Lal Masjid operation and giving the media greater freedom.

People often talk about economic development under military dictatorship, but that so-called development was fueled by American funding (bribe) to do their bidding. It is not a sustainable model.
 
ISLAMABAD: Terming the high treason trial against former military ruler Pervez Musharraf “unfair”, the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf government on Tuesday decided to defend the self-exiled, ailing ex-president during the hearing of an appeal to be filed on his behalf.

“I will defend the law in the case but not any individual,” said Attorney General Anwar Mansoor in the late-night joint press conference that he addressed along with Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Information Dr Firdous Ashiq Awan.

He said former president Musharraf had not been given the right of fair trial during the case tried in a special court and the judgement was announced in absentia without recording statement of the accused.

The attorney general said the verdict raised questions about “urgency in pronouncing the judgement when Mr Musharraf was in critical condition in ICU” in Dubai.

PM’s spokesman slams opposition for ‘maligning the army’ by commenting on decision; MQM-P regrets ruling

“Musharraf was not given a chance to record his statement under Article 342 (of the Constitution), to present his testimony and witnesses and his request to record his statement through video link or before a commission was turned down by the judge,” he added.

“There is no question that a person who had committed treason must be punished but in this case the right of fair trial guaranteed under the Constitution was not ensured. A trial should not just be fair but also seen to be fair,” he insisted.

The AG argued before the media that one of the major flaws in the case was that those who might have assisted Gen Musharraf in enforcing emergency in the country “had not been made party” in the case. He said if Gen Musharraf had been given a chance to record his statement and present his witnesses, he might have come up with “logical” reasons in support of emergency he had proclaimed in 2007.

Mr Mansoor further argued that the complaint against the ex-president had been filed by a former interior secretary, whereas under the 18th Amendment only a prime minister and members of his cabinet have powers to authorise any person for filing such petitions/complaints.

Asked if he committed a contempt of court by declaring the trial “unfair” during his media talk, the attorney general said: “Once the verdict is announced it becomes a public document and everyone can comment on it.” At the same time, he added, he had tried his best to get a copy of the judgement but he was asked by the court that it would be issued after 48 hours.

The PM’s aide on information, however, criticised the opposition for what she said “maligning the army” and “harming the interest of the state” by commenting on the decision.

In a TV talk show, spokesman for the PM Nadeem Afzal Chan said that institutions should not get themselves involved in any controversy on the judgement, as it was a verdict against an individual. He also urged the nation and institutions to move forward and not to get themselves involved in any controversy.

“Here [in the country] we have faced hanging of prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, assassination of ex-prime minister Benazir Bhutto and horrible tragedy of Army Public School, but [we] moved forward,” he added.

The PM spokesman was of the opinion that all stakeholders should exercise patience on the judgement. He said: “When we criticise the judiciary for not taking decisions against military generals and when we condemn lawyers for creating a fuss in Lahore then people can also comment on Musharraf.”

“Had the people stopped doing politics when ex-PM Bhutto was hanged,” he said and again appealed to the nation to move forward after the high treason case verdict.

Mr Chan, however, demanded that action be taken against the accomplices of Gen Musharraf who had assisted him or endorsed his act of enforcing emergency in the country in 2007.

The Muttahida Qaumi Movement-Pakistan termed the decision against Gen Musharraf “extremely regrettable”.

“What kind of justice is this that those looted national wealth are considered patriots but the man who put his life at stake for the sake of country has been declared a traitor,” wondered MQM-P convener Dr Khalid Maqbool Siddiqui in his reaction to the special court’s verdict.

He demanded that Gen Musharraf, who he said was very ill, be given an opportunity to defend his case.

Also, the Mustafa Kamal-led Pak Sarzameen Party rejected the special court verdict, saying “legal and constitutional obligations had not been met in the case against Gen Musharraf.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/1522863/govt-to-save-ex-ruler-in-court-on-appeal-ag
 
Former military strongmen have weighed in on the conviction of former president General (retired) Pervez Musharraf for high treason by a special court. In television talks shows aired on Tuesday night, several former military officers expressed disappointment over the verdict.

A special court bench comprising Justice Waqar Ahmad Seth of the Peshawar High Court, Justice Nazar Akbar of the Sindh High Court and Justice Shahid Karim of the Lahore High Court had on Tuesday convicted Musharraf for high treason and handed him the death penalty.

In a report published by The News, Lieutenant General (retired) Naeem Khalid Lodhi, Lieutenant General (retired) Ghulam Mustafa, Major General (retired) Ejaz Awan, Brigadier (retired) Haris Nawaz, Lieutenant General (retired) Talat Masood, and others expressed their opinions on the matter.

According to Lodhi, the imposition of the emergency in Pakistan back in 2007 was a collective decision and holding one person responsible for it was not reflective of a high standard of justice. "The tribunal was being given directions to proceed in certain manner," he alleged.

Echoing the comments of Lodhi, Mustafa said that such decisions caused anguish and the judgement was a very sorry state of affairs with regards to the judiciary."I am shocked that the CJP did not intervene into the attack at the Lahore hospital, but hinted at a verdict in Musharraf case."

Major General (retired) Awan, reacting to the special court ruling, had said the verdict highlighted the different standards of justice for different people in the country. " I strongly reject declaring the former COAS, who fought wars for Pakistan, as a traitor," he maintained.

Brig (retired) Nawaz, commenting on the verdict against the former army chief, had last night said that the reaction of the army against the judgment was entirely justified as the statement given out by ISPR was reflective of the reaction of the entire Pakistan Army to the court ruling.

Lieut Gen (retd) Talat Masood also weighed in on the verdict, saying that neither Gen (retd) Musharraf, nor his legal team, seriously contested the case. He said that if the former COAS had appeared in the court or recorded his statement through video link, perhaps things would have been different.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/262471-fo...l-court-ruling-in-musharraf-high-treason-case
 
Musharraf’s legacy:

- Scoring an own goal with the Kargil attack.

- overthrowing the government because they ended his misery in Kargil to prevent further escalation.

- followed Gen. Ayub and Gen. Zia’s tradition of playing mercenary to the U.S. They did in the Cold War and he did it in the WoT.

- striking a deal with Pentagon and allowed them to conduct drone strikes in Pakistan in exchange of military equipment.

- Adopted an aggressive policy against the Baloch and killed Bugti.

- NRO.

The only good things that he did was the Lal Masjid operation and giving the media greater freedom.

People often talk about economic development under military dictatorship, but that so-called development was fueled by American funding (bribe) to do their bidding. It is not a sustainable model.

- Kargil was an act of bravery and courage.
- The Nawaz govt was over thrown because he hijacked Musharaf’s plane and wanted to replace army command according to his own interest.
- As for being US mercenary, do you really think any Pakistani leader could ve said No to the US? They would easily have done a Syria & Iraq in Pakistan.
- Policy against Baloch tribals was right because they were keeping Pakistan govt hostage at every opportunity and demanding ransom for infrastructure in the region. This wadera shahi couldn’t have gone on for ever.

The only mistake was NRO and letting Nawaz escape in the first place. Musharaf was honest and people’s hero and always will be!
 
He deserves it. He ruined the peace of our beautiful country by throwing us into US WoT, by destroying the peace of FATA/KP and Balochistan, due to which so many lives were lost. HE IS A CERTIFIED TRAITOR. A historic day (17/12/2019) for Pakistan.

#WeStandWithOurJudiciary
 
Excellent decision. No one should underestimate the courage shown by the judiciary here, up against PTI-GHQ nexus.
Whatever happens next, to have come up with this verdict alone is a laudable accomplishment in itself.
Watch the panic set in PTI's camp here and now: IK, who did not stop himself from leaving country when a hospital was attacked with grave consequences, has outright cancelled his Malaysia tour in defiance of this deserving verdict. Ik is surely taking the tradition of 'polishing' to astonishingly new heights.

There is no panic in the PTI camp. I think majority of the post-election (only) PTI supporters are supporting Musharraf, who seem to be fair-weather supporters, as you can see the cabinet is almost Musharraf 2.0. True IK (PTI) supporters will not support a traitor.
 
Our economic situation was much better during Musharraf's rule compared to PMLN/PPP eras.

However, he played a big role in allowing the Americans to bomb Pakistani areas post 9//11, which led to thousands of innocent Pakistanis dying in Balochistan/KPK, which is unforgivable.

The current situation in Balochistan and FATA areas is totally linked to his decision to force Pakistan to side with the USA during the War on Terror after 9/11, when we had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was never our war, and Musharraf should have never allowed the USA to use Pakistan as a tool.

18 years after 9/11 and the beginning of the War on Terror, we are still suffering from his decisions even after losing 70,000+ Pakistanis, who had nothing to do with this War. He is responsible for these casualties, and is rightly labbeled as a traitor.

That being said, the judiciary should have punished the likes of Nawaz, Zardari, Altaf, and even traitors like PTM leaders in the same way. People who stole Pakistan's resources for their own benefit are traitors as well and deserve the same punishment.
 
- Kargil was an act of bravery and courage.

There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity; Musharraf crossed that line. He was delusional and wanted to be a hero. There was no possibility of Pakistan prevailing in that war and Nawaz, as directed by Clinton, did the right thing by calling ceasefire. The whole Kargil episode should have been avoided if Musharraf did not put self-glory over national interest.

The Nawaz govt was over thrown because he hijacked Musharaf’s plane and wanted to replace army command according to his own interest.

Not true. It is a commonly used justification by Musharraf apologists but the decision to overthrow Nawaz’s government was taken when he rained Musharraf’s parade in Kargil. That was the moment when Nawaz’s fate was sealed. Furthermore, the Prime Minister is superior to the COAS and if the COAS defies the orders of the Prime Minister, he is guilty of treason.

As for being US mercenary, do you really think any Pakistani leader could ve said No to the US? They would easily have done a Syria & Iraq in Pakistan.

There is a difference between saying no and allowing the U.S. to conduct drone strikes on your soil in exchange for military equipment. Musharraf was willing to see Pakistani civilians die as long as he was getting new equipment that consolidated his power. Moreover, there is a difference between Syria/Iraq and Pakistan.

Pakistan is far, far more capable of self-defense and although we are not stupid enough to use nukes against the U.S., you cannot expect anything from the state in times of desperation. The U.S. would never have risked nuclear escalation by occupying Pakistan in the same they occupied Iraq. Pakistan could have minimized their involvement in the WoT if Musharraf didn’t see dollar signs in his eyes.

Policy against Baloch tribals was right because they were keeping Pakistan govt hostage at every opportunity and demanding ransom for infrastructure in the region. This wadera shahi couldn’t have gone on for ever.

The military of Pakistan is responsible for the insurgence in Balochistan. They sowed the seeds in 1948 with the illegal occupation of Kalat. Since then, it has been part of their strategic decision to keep Balochistan poor and illiterate to ensure that they don’t rebel effectively. This strategy failed in East Pakistan because of geographic reasons.

During the 80s and 90s, the insurgency in Balochistan was pretty much non-existent and there was room for dialogue. However, Musharraf fueled the fire with the way he handled the rape case of Dr. Shazia Khalid. He wanted an insurgency in Balochistan so that he can exercise his power and strengthen his position as the all-power dictator. Once again, he put personal interest above national interest.

The only mistake was NRO and letting Nawaz escape in the first place. Musharaf was honest and people’s hero and always will be!

Musharraf is a selfish, vile, arrogant, deluded and power-hungry individual who has violated the constitution, compromised national interest and has destabilized the country on multiple occasions for personal gains.
 
Your explanations are too over simplified and a bit biased to support your opinion. True in part but still Doesn’t make total sense to me.
 
Pakistan constitution is for the filthy rich politicians and corrupt Judges to misuse and now due to weak PTI Government, they are excercising their power and money ruthlessly to achieve there personal goals.

When corruption is deeply rooted within a Nation, it is destined to remain in oblivion. A single individual cannot change it.
 
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How can a army have a statement in these type of matters in Pakistan. Looks very odd to defy a court. Army has only responsibility to safeguard the borders.
 
Pakistan constitution is for the filthy rich politicians and corrupt Judges to misuse and now due to weak PTI Government, they are excercising their power and money ruthlessly to achieve there personal goals.

When corruption is deeply rooted within a Nation, it is destined to remain in oblivion. A single individual cannot change it.

Rome wasn’t build in a day, change takes time. Besides, Musharraf deserves to get hanged, it’s just a shame that other traitors will most likely not suffer the same fate.
 
Special court hands death penalty to former military dictator Parvez Musharraf in high treason case

While I was sure Musharraf will be punished but death sentence?

The only question in my mind is, can a person be awarded death sentence for a crime (suspension of constitution) which was not in constitution at the time of committing it?

Only abrogation had death sentence then.

Could you please elaborate a little on this? I asked someone and got told that this law did exist even back then, so I´m a bit unsure on this. Any help will be much appreciated.
 
Could you please elaborate a little on this? I asked someone and got told that this law did exist even back then, so I´m a bit unsure on this. Any help will be much appreciated.

It was added by PPP, PMLN, ANP and other parties in the 18th amendment in 2010.

"When Pervez Musharraf suspended the Constitution in 2007, the suspension was not an offence of high treason and it was made an offence subsequently in 2010 when the 18th Amendment was passed"
 
It was added by PPP, PMLN, ANP and other parties in the 18th amendment in 2010.

"When Pervez Musharraf suspended the Constitution in 2007, the suspension was not an offence of high treason and it was made an offence subsequently in 2010 when the 18th Amendment was passed"

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2. Musharraf was tried for suspending the constitution, which wasnt an offence in 2007. This amounts to retrospective punishment <br><br>False. SC has held holding constitution in abeyance is subverting the constitution, and subversion has been a part of Art 6 (high treason) since 1973 <a href="https://t.co/7ZBLK9Molh">pic.twitter.com/7ZBLK9Molh</a></p>— Reema Omer (@reema_omer) <a href="https://twitter.com/reema_omer/status/1207098335426994176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2. Musharraf was tried for suspending the constitution, which wasnt an offence in 2007. This amounts to retrospective punishment <br><br>False. SC has held holding constitution in abeyance is subverting the constitution, and subversion has been a part of Art 6 (high treason) since 1973 <a href="https://t.co/7ZBLK9Molh">pic.twitter.com/7ZBLK9Molh</a></p>— Reema Omer (@reema_omer) <a href="https://twitter.com/reema_omer/status/1207098335426994176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thanks for the details but i am a bit confused if court is saying 2007 emergency by Mush is just another name of Marshal Law so why no action against his 1999 act?
 
Thanks for the details but i am a bit confused if court is saying 2007 emergency by Mush is just another name of Marshal Law so why no action against his 1999 act?

Depends if it was a suo moto case. I’m not sure if it was a suo moto case and I think it was the government who decided the timeframe for the prosecution.
 
Special court hands death penalty to former military dictator Parvez Musharraf in high treason case

Thanks for the details but i am a bit confused if court is saying 2007 emergency by Mush is just another name of Marshal Law so why no action against his 1999 act?

A good point. It baffles me why the martial law imposition from 1999 has been overlooked here in this case.
 
What are you on about?

There were 101 civilian casualties through DRONE STRIKES from 2004-2007.

LET ME REPEAT, there were two drone strikes during musharrafs era by usa, which were spread over 8 years, they where made to apologies for them.

Drone strikes with paks authorisation came the day musharraf left, when drone strikes happened daily under your heroes zadari and nawaz sharif.

so stop twisting facts and lie.
 
A good point. It baffles me why the martial law imposition from 1999 has been overlooked here in this case.

because the people responsible for this decision and there sponsors were also responsible for the acts of 1999 and will be prosectuted as well.
 
LET ME REPEAT, there were two drone strikes during musharrafs era by usa, which were spread over 8 years, they where made to apologies for them.

Drone strikes with paks authorisation came the day musharraf left, when drone strikes happened daily under your heroes zadari and nawaz sharif.

so stop twisting facts and lie.

Are you suggesting Mush was against those strikes?

Mushy had no authority the day he allowed/helped the invasion and occupation of Pakistan. This was treason and Im glad he has been found guilty. Under Mushy countless people were taken and handed to the US without any proof of wrong doing. He sold out Pakistan.
 
Are you suggesting Mush was against those strikes?

Mushy had no authority the day he allowed/helped the invasion and occupation of Pakistan. This was treason and Im glad he has been found guilty. Under Mushy countless people were taken and handed to the US without any proof of wrong doing. He sold out Pakistan.

The way americans were threatening back in the day and what they actually did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, do you REALLY think Musharaf could’ve said No.
 
The way americans were threatening back in the day and what they actually did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, do you REALLY think Musharaf could’ve said No.

Pakistan is a nuclear power, Yanks or their forefathers will never go to war. Only those with cowardly mentality fell for this nonsense. Not suggesting you but those at the time.
 
Mush made massive mistakes, not least the NRO with crooks but he is no traitor. The real traitors have been released from prison by a bent Judiciary and are walking around in London and Karachi.
 
Mere bhai, Iraq also had a nuclear reactor. Just thinking that being a nuclear power would ve saved Pakistan is too simplistic way of looking at it. Even before that Pakistan was already knee deep in Afghanistan since the times of Afghan jihad against USSR.

Mush had no choice.
 
Pakistan is a nuclear power, Yanks or their forefathers will never go to war. Only those with cowardly mentality fell for this nonsense. Not suggesting you but those at the time.

But there was and is more than one way to skin a cat. It's easy today to suggest that nothing would have happened but economically they would have laid to waste to our economy which was and remains feeble. Mush made a very tough call, but it was in the circumstances the right call.
 
But there was and is more than one way to skin a cat. It's easy today to suggest that nothing would have happened but economically they would have laid to waste to our economy which was and remains feeble. Mush made a very tough call, but it was in the circumstances the right call.

Which cat is being skinned by who?

Joing the war destroyed the economy and destroyed countless lives. Do you the number of people who were killed in Pakistan before Pakistan joined the invasion and the number after?

It can't be the right call to any many with dignity. Do you think the Prophet(pbuh) would done the same, made the right call by helping outsiders to bomb and kill innocent women and children?
 
Mere bhai, Iraq also had a nuclear reactor. Just thinking that being a nuclear power would ve saved Pakistan is too simplistic way of looking at it. Even before that Pakistan was already knee deep in Afghanistan since the times of Afghan jihad against USSR.

Mush had no choice.

nuclear reactor? lol

Pakistan is a nuclear armed state, which has the ability to launch these weapons and destroy the world. You don't have to hit America or anywhere to ruin it when you have such powerful weapons. come on bro, don't give me jokes with silly comparisons.
 
Which cat is being skinned by who?

Joing the war destroyed the economy and destroyed countless lives. Do you the number of people who were killed in Pakistan before Pakistan joined the invasion and the number after?

It can't be the right call to any many with dignity. Do you think the Prophet(pbuh) would done the same, made the right call by helping outsiders to bomb and kill innocent women and children?

But the PK economy grow quicker than any time since Ayub. As far as the killing is concerned, there is no doubt innocent people died, but even Mush had joined the Americans they would have killed people they suspected. Some of those people were also killing innocent PK's and also caused immense damage to PK.
As I said, it was a tough call and let's be honest no PK leader would have made a different call.Sometimes politicians make tough horrible choices and this was one.
 
But the PK economy grow quicker than any time since Ayub. As far as the killing is concerned, there is no doubt innocent people died, but even Mush had joined the Americans they would have killed people they suspected. Some of those people were also killing innocent PK's and also caused immense damage to PK.
As I said, it was a tough call and let's be honest no PK leader would have made a different call.Sometimes politicians make tough horrible choices and this was one.

It doesn't matter if he did what anyone else would have done.

It wasn't a tough call, you don't make a decision knowing your country will face a huge backlash. Because of his decision Pakistan was on the brink of near collapse.

Americans would have done some bombing and moved out, but because Pakistan sided with them they stayed and will stay now.

Mushy should be hanged in public.
 
Thanks for the details but i am a bit confused if court is saying 2007 emergency by Mush is just another name of Marshal Law so why no action against his 1999 act?

A good point. It baffles me why the martial law imposition from 1999 has been overlooked here in this case.

because his 1999 illegal action get legal cover but his 2007 illegal action did not;
 
nuclear reactor? lol

Pakistan is a nuclear armed state, which has the ability to launch these weapons and destroy the world. You don't have to hit America or anywhere to ruin it when you have such powerful weapons. come on bro, don't give me jokes with silly comparisons.

You are the ones giving jokes. Americans could easily have suffocated Pakistan just like they are doing with Iran and North Korea. That Nuclear arsenal is only good for keeping Indians at bay. America is a different beast altogether.

Also the money Mush received from Americans was spent on Pakistani awam instead of lining his own pockets (which all “democratically elected” leaders ve done). Dollar was kept at the exchange rate of 60rs for a number of years. Everything prospered in Musharaf’s era.

Lastly before you point fingers at others (and justify the moral high ground), what exactly have you done when the country you live in, invaded and killed many around the world?
 
I am surprised that there are still Pakistanis who support Musharraf rule :facepalm: they have goldfish memory.

And a shout out to Imran Khan to grow a pair and support hanging of Musharraf as you wanted before you become Prime Minister.
 
I am surprised that there are still Pakistanis who support Musharraf rule :facepalm: they have goldfish memory.

And a shout out to Imran Khan to grow a pair and support hanging of Musharraf as you wanted before you become Prime Minister.

Should you not worry about what’s happening in your Desh. Modi and his goons are totally out of control and you have the cheek to come and give us Bhashan.
 
I am surprised that there are still Pakistanis who support Musharraf rule :facepalm: they have goldfish memory.

And a shout out to Imran Khan to grow a pair and support hanging of Musharraf as you wanted before you become Prime Minister.

Sorry but Imran was wrong i am his supporter but i can't support all his past or present views i criticized IK for opposing Swat operation too by Kyani. There are many blunders by Musharraf and top on the list are NRO and deal with Nawaz and thn allowing them back in the country but NO he is not a traitor.
 
This country is a TOTAL JOKE. They are giving to a General who with good intentions made a number of mistakes but was always a patriot and courts and military are allowing religious fanatics who are not patriotics and full of bad intentions run free
 
You are the ones giving jokes. Americans could easily have suffocated Pakistan just like they are doing with Iran and North Korea. That Nuclear arsenal is only good for keeping Indians at bay. America is a different beast altogether.

Also the money Mush received from Americans was spent on Pakistani awam instead of lining his own pockets (which all “democratically elected” leaders ve done). Dollar was kept at the exchange rate of 60rs for a number of years. Everything prospered in Musharaf’s era.

Lastly before you point fingers at others (and justify the moral high ground), what exactly have you done when the country you live in, invaded and killed many around the world?

Dude, nuclear reactor in Iraq:)))

Please explain this in detail. :)
 
Sorry but Imran was wrong i am his supporter but i can't support all his past or present views i criticized IK for opposing Swat operation too by Kyani. There are many blunders by Musharraf and top on the list are NRO and deal with Nawaz and thn allowing them back in the country but NO he is not a traitor.

Imran Khan was right and 99% of PTI supporters agreed him.

He has messed up here bigtime and no wonder people think he's an army stooge.

Im thinking this could be the case now.
 
Why is Imran Khan against the judgement ? A normal government would say that this is none of their business and that they respect the decision of the apex court.

Have his army higher-ups forced him to take a stand on this?
 
Dont dodge the questions. Man up.

I don't live in Pakistan, so you're asking the wrong person.

Now explain who Iraqs nuclear reactor was a deterrent. Which reactor, what was it capable or and how it would be a danger to invading forces.
 
I don't live in Pakistan, so you're asking the wrong person.

Now explain who Iraqs nuclear reactor was a deterrent. Which reactor, what was it capable or and how it would be a danger to invading forces.

Again avoiding the questions. Read post#116 again. It has nothing to do with you not being in Pakistan. Infact i was referring to your moral stance while living in the Uk.
 
Again avoiding the questions. Read post#116 again. It has nothing to do with you not being in Pakistan. Infact i was referring to your moral stance while living in the Uk.

Speed up buddy.

You wrote

"Lastly before you point fingers at others (and justify the moral high ground), what exactly have you done when the country you live in, invaded and killed many around the world?"

I protested obviously , duh.

Stop running and explain this great nuclear reactor which Saddam had. Was it the same as the thanos infinity rings? :)))
 
No one is above the law.
Be it a military man, a religious priest or a rich raja; constitution is above everyone.

Musharraf made a mockery of Pakistani constitution. People like to defend his reasons... and yes Nawaz Shareef was a thief but still, the fact is he was elected.

This should be the last dictatorship in Pakistan's history.

Let's see.
 
The official judgment from the court concerning Musharraf regards him as a traitor. Thus, he should be labelled as such: "A Traitor".
In real life, it is common to see losing parties differ from the court's decisions, but even in the worst circumstances, it is made sure that the court's decree is always upheld and endorsed.

It is alarming to watch the slander against this court order on mainstream media 24/7, as well as the subservient government's constant defenses for this traitor, day in and day out. Why is government taking such a strong and open offensive against court-order of so little relevance to them? If any court-order deserved to be criticized, at least in behalf of government, it was that of sahiwal-incident's accused getting acquitted, because IK promised to bring them all to justice.

IK for once should have been man enough to tell establishment to back off from twisting his arm to support Musharraf, knowing that his own views about Musharraf were also that of 'one who committed treason and deserved to be hanged'. It is unfortunate that our PM cherishes so little faith in himself that he is no longer even bothered about losing credibility.
 
If I had to state Musharraf is a traitor, it is because of the NRO which allowed the likes of NS, Zardari to plunder $64 billion from 2008 to 2018, not for abrogating the constitution which is just a piece of paper
 
Speed up buddy.

You wrote

"Lastly before you point fingers at others (and justify the moral high ground), what exactly have you done when the country you live in, invaded and killed many around the world?"

I protested obviously , duh.

Stop running and explain this great nuclear reactor which Saddam had. Was it the same as the thanos infinity rings? :)))


Ah, so you googled it already. Anyways here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuwaitha_Nuclear_Research_Center

And just like you Musharaf also protested but had to give in due to american pressure (just like you did sitting in the UK). So there is no real moral high ground that you can claim.

If you think that the nukes would have allowed Pak to refuse american demands, you are living in a Mickey mouse world.
 
So the Pakistani Courts allowed NS to travel abroad for medical treatment with no guarantee of returning, the Pakistani Courts have been absolutely inefficient with regards to the PPP fake account scandals in Sindh, numerous corruption cases against these politicians. Ex CJP Iftikhar Chaudhry who caused $6 billion loss to the Exchequer in the Rik o Dek case, all these individuals are roaming free and not even been accused or charged with treason but Musharraf is guilty of treason for abrogating the constitution when there were numerous other people involved as well?

The real establishment of the country is PPP and PML N and this mafia needs to be exterminated
 
Ah, so you googled it already. Anyways here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuwaitha_Nuclear_Research_Center

And just like you Musharaf also protested but had to give in due to american pressure (just like you did sitting in the UK). So there is no real moral high ground that you can claim.

If you think that the nukes would have allowed Pak to refuse american demands, you are living in a Mickey mouse world.

lol. I don't need google common knowledge. Do you realise this is an old reactor bombed and Iraq never came close to having nuclear weapons.

Mushy was leader of a nuclear armed nation, Im a citizen of nation. As if we both had the same options and they were only to protest. lol

Yes they would have if there had been a leader with some guts and a leader who is not a sell out. Mushy knew this and has said this many times Pakistan is a nuclear nation so can decide it's own policies. Mushy did a deal, money for helping kill Afghans which is why the US gave so much military aid.

Just leave it pal, you have your view and it's a waste of time me debating with you on this..Iraq nuclear reactor, gold tho :))
 
You are missing the point. Being a Nuclear nation doesn’t mean anything in this context. US could easily have suffocated Pakistan without invading it (Like they are doing to Iran). Any patriotic leader, in that position would put the interest of their country first. Hats off to Musharaf for showing the courage and leading Pakistan through a difficult time.

While enjoying all the benefits of an invading country, its a bit ironic of you to accuse Mush of being a sell out. Surprising that its not glaringly obvious. Or maybe that ‘protest’ was sufficient for your conscience.
 
Are you suggesting Mush was against those strikes?

Mushy had no authority the day he allowed/helped the invasion and occupation of Pakistan. This was treason and Im glad he has been found guilty. Under Mushy countless people were taken and handed to the US without any proof of wrong doing. He sold out Pakistan.

100% he was against those strikes. It was made well known when they were done, usa had there supplies cut off to afganistan for quite a long time and were begging mush to reopen them.

When mush went it was a field day for the americans, drone strikes daily and licences for private american armies to enter pakistan, they were roaming around the streets of islamabad just days after he went.

the story of what happened between isi/taliban and afgan in the days after 9/11 leading up to the invasion is a long story but you can google and check what happened in those meetings between isi and taliban,

the theory of mush handing over people to the states has long been debunked and is spread by army haters, only those were handed over who were not pakistanis and were in pakistan illegally, mush ruled usa with an iron fist he even refused to hand over convicted terroists. Had it been anyone else pak would have been sold off.

He may have made mistakes but he was never a traitor nor did he loot anything.
 
You are missing the point. Being a Nuclear nation doesn’t mean anything in this context. US could easily have suffocated Pakistan without invading it (Like they are doing to Iran). Any patriotic leader, in that position would put the interest of their country first. Hats off to Musharaf for showing the courage and leading Pakistan through a difficult time.

While enjoying all the benefits of an invading country, its a bit ironic of you to accuse Mush of being a sell out. Surprising that its not glaringly obvious. Or maybe that ‘protest’ was sufficient for your conscience.

I was born here and Britain is my home, Pakistan will always come second. I protest but wont cry if anyone attacks Pakistan because they are nuclear power and shouldn't allow it.

Pakistan has suffered due to being part of the war of terror, it's a fact. You can guess what would have happened if Pak refused but it's a guess. Tens of thousands of people have died due to this.

Again, Im not going to bother debating with someone who thinks Saddam had nuclear power lol
 
Yep, leg it when you know you stand on a fake moral high ground. Waste of time going round in circles when someone happy living in their Mickey mouse world.
 
100% he was against those strikes. It was made well known when they were done, usa had there supplies cut off to afganistan for quite a long time and were begging mush to reopen them.

When mush went it was a field day for the americans, drone strikes daily and licences for private american armies to enter pakistan, they were roaming around the streets of islamabad just days after he went.

the story of what happened between isi/taliban and afgan in the days after 9/11 leading up to the invasion is a long story but you can google and check what happened in those meetings between isi and taliban,

the theory of mush handing over people to the states has long been debunked and is spread by army haters, only those were handed over who were not pakistanis and were in pakistan illegally, mush ruled usa with an iron fist he even refused to hand over convicted terroists. Had it been anyone else pak would have been sold off.

He may have made mistakes but he was never a traitor nor did he loot anything.

Mushy has admitted he authorised drone strikes. This isn't being 100% against them.

I don't need to google anything, check the relevant threads on the war on terror.

Plenty of people were handed over the US, many innocent, these are facts.

He's a traitor because he knew Pakistan would suffer , many in Pakistan would die, the economy would be hurt and US would be bombing Pakistan. He said yes, nobody else, even if he left he is responsible for what follows.

If he's innocent, come back to Pakistan and face trial. Would you agree with this?
 
Yep, leg it when you know you stand on a fake moral high ground. Waste of time going round in circles when someone happy living in their Mickey mouse world.

Ill stay if you can prove the Saddam superpower reactor which was so amazing and powerful. :))

Come on dude, you shot yourself in the foot, it's embarrassing for me to debate with you now. Other topics, no problem. Move on now. :)
 
I actually supported Musharaff till he started making blunders in the end especially giving NRO to crooks.

I am also against death penalty even if it's Nawaz or Zardari who stole billions from country, yes they deserve punishment and so does Musharaff but death penalty for this sort of crime is way too extreme.

I think Musharaff will not get this punishment anyway as he is really sick (appears sick anyway) and unlikely to come back so this is more of symbolic punishment and there is a positive aspect which means people will think twice before breaking the constitution in future so not a bad result after all and I support Justice Khosa's view on this.

Yes we could argue that lot of others were involved as well including PCO judges but can't deny that Musharaff himself had biggest hand. Just like that Nawaz & Zardari can't use the argument why us and not other corrupts because these 2 have held the most senior posts and abused the power. I don't think Musharaff is a traitor by any means but he will need to face some punishment.
 
Ill stay if you can prove the Saddam superpower reactor which was so amazing and powerful. :))

Come on dude, you shot yourself in the foot, it's embarrassing for me to debate with you now. Other topics, no problem. Move on now. :)

I was wrong and Sadam had no reactor. Move on.

Now explain why is it Ok for your home country to invade every corner of the world (still there in Falklands) suppress people for their financial and economical benefit, be present in Iraq, Syria and afghanistan. You enjoy all the benefits afforded by the system of the country and yet you think it was wrong of Musharaf to give in due to the interest of his country? Why?
 
Mushy has admitted he authorised drone strikes. This isn't being 100% against them.

I don't need to google anything, check the relevant threads on the war on terror.

Plenty of people were handed over the US, many innocent, these are facts.

He's a traitor because he knew Pakistan would suffer , many in Pakistan would die, the economy would be hurt and US would be bombing Pakistan. He said yes, nobody else, even if he left he is responsible for what follows.

If he's innocent, come back to Pakistan and face trial. Would you agree with this?

if hes given a free and fair trial, then ofcourse he should face it but we know its not going to happen as the courts are filled with politically motivated judges who were political lawyers at one time.

as for drone strikes then mush never ever gave any authorisation, can you provide a reliable source? why would drone srikes happen on a daily basis as soon as he left, why did the americans enter when he left????

i dont get my facts from threads, there are many books written about what happened during the time bwteen 9/11 and the invasion, if your going to belive some pak army haters then thats up to you.

people were handed over to americans, but like i said, there were zero pakistanis handed, pakistanis who were convicted of terroism were dealt by pakistani law and put in pakistani prisons, mush made that clear to the americans.

What he knew was that pak would suffer if it went against the usa and what most of the world wanted at that time, he was backed in the corner and had the most toughest decision to make which no leader of pakistan has had and he took the best option for pakistan, and no pakistan did not suffer and nor did the economy, it was going through its biggest boom ever, please check facts.
 
KARACHI: A day after the special court handed death sentence to retired Gen Pervez Musharraf for high treason, the former military dictator broke his silence on Wednesday evening and expressed his gratitude to the armed forces and the people of Pakistan for remembering his services for the nation.

In a video that showed him lying on a medical bed, Mr Musharraf also said that he would decide his future course of action after consulting his legal team.

“I have faith in Pakistan’s judiciary that they will provide me justice and keep in view the supremacy of law,” he said in a feeble voice.

However, he did not say whether he was considering returning home to challenge the special court’s verdict.

Following the Tuesday verdict, the Inter-Services Public Relations issued a statement saying “The decision has been received with lot of pain and anguish by rank and file of Pakistan armed forces. An ex-army chief, chairman joint chief of staff committee and President of Pakistan, who has served the country for over 40 years, fought wars for the defence of the country can surely never be a traitor”.

Delegation of MQM-P meets Musharraf and assures him of full support

Mr Musharraf said that he had heard the news of the verdict on television. He regretted that it was a decision in which neither the defendant nor his lawyer was allowed to contest the charges.

MQM-P team meets Musharraf
Earlier in the day, a delegation of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement-Pakistan called on the former military dictator in Dubai and assured him of the party’s full support.

The MQM-P, a former ally of Gen Musharraf and the current partner of the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf government, had already termed the special court’s judgement “extremely regrettable” and wondered whether the decision was connected to his “ethnic identity” as no such action had been taken against other military dictators.

A statement issued by the MQM-P on Wednesday said Karachi Mayor Wasim Akhtar, who is also deputy convener of the party’s coordination committee, along with coordination committee member and former MNA Hyder Abbas Rizvi called on Gen Musharraf in Dubai and inquired after his health. Mr Rizvi is currently residing in the United Arab Emirates.

“The delegation of the MQM coordination committee has informed the former president of their resolve to go to any length against the regrettable decision of the special court,” the statement said, adding that Gen Musharraf expressed his gratitude to the MQM-P leadership.

The delegation also prayed for early recovery of the former president, the statement concluded.

MQM-P leader Faisal Subzwari tweeted that the delegation also praised the services of Gen Musharraf for the country and Karachi.

Mr Rizvi told a private news channel that their meeting took place at a local hospital. However, he said he was not aware whether Gen Musharraf was admitted to the hospital or not.

The Karachi mayor had about three months ago met Gen Musharraf in Dubai, but at that time the MQM-P leadership declared it as Mr Akhtar’s personal engagement and even asked him to explain as to why he met the former president without informing the party.

It is worth nothing all other factions of the once unified MQM, including London-based Altaf Hussain’s, disgruntled leader Dr Farooq Sattar’s and former Karachi mayor Mustafa Kamal’s Pak Sarzameen Party, also came out in support of Gen Musharraf and rejected the court’s decision against him.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1523087/former-dictator-thanks-armed-forces-nation-for-support?preview
 
The military when Nawaz was convicted:

The country will descend into chaos if we let the judiciary be humiliated by those who don’t like its decisions”


The military when Musharraf was convicted:

“The decision given by the special court about General (retd) Pervez Musharraf has been received with a lot of pain and anguish by the rank and file of Pakistan Armed Forces”

“We have brought stability by failing all inimical forces operating against Pakistan. We shall never let it go away at any cost”


This is what happens when you do not have a shred of shame, dignity, self-respect and credibility.
 
Pakistan - a strange country.

Fatima Jinnah was a traitor but Musharraf is not.
 
Another case of a Pakistani who uses his illness to gain sympathy from the masses. This is Nawaz Sharif all over again.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pervez Musharraf's first video statement From Hospital on verdict From Special Court<br>Watch Full Video Here <a href="https://t.co/P4rc4VjrDt">https://t.co/P4rc4VjrDt</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Musharaf_Hero_Of_Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Musharaf_Hero_Of_Pakistan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%D8%A2%D8%A6%DB%8C%D9%86%E2%80%8C%DB%81%DB%92%E2%80%8C%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%BE%D8%A7%DA%A9%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86%E2%80%8C%DB%81%DB%92?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#آئین*ہے*توپاکستان*ہے</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JusticeForGenMusharraf?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JusticeForGenMusharraf</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Musharraf?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Musharraf</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanArmy?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanArmy</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DGISPR?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DGISPR</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/COAS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#COAS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> <a href="https://t.co/VL7vqatVFM">pic.twitter.com/VL7vqatVFM</a></p>— Malik Ali Raza 🇵🇰 (@malik0oo) <a href="https://twitter.com/malik0oo/status/1207359277461131264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Pakistan - a strange country.

Fatima Jinnah was a traitor but Musharraf is not.

Fatima Jinnah wasn't declared traitor by a court or by the majority of Pakistanis. Just because Ayub and his supporter like father of Khurram Dasatagir called her traitor doesn't mean it was the decision of whole nation or courts so don't mix two different situations. We are talking about a court decision here otherwise Mush was already being labeled a traitor since 2001 by his opponents.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This reflects personal inkling. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MusharrafVerdict?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MusharrafVerdict</a> <a href="https://t.co/7ix0MRhPJf">pic.twitter.com/7ix0MRhPJf</a></p>— Fe'reeha@ abbtakk (@Fereeha) <a href="https://twitter.com/Fereeha/status/1207592782942162945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Court directs Musharraf’s corpse to be dragged and hanged at Islamabad’s d-chowk for 3 days, if found dead. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MusharrafVerdict?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MusharrafVerdict</a> <a href="https://t.co/yk4v6ryqJ6">https://t.co/yk4v6ryqJ6</a> <a href="https://t.co/Ykl8AnWifQ">pic.twitter.com/Ykl8AnWifQ</a></p>— Anas Mallick (@AnasMallick) <a href="https://twitter.com/AnasMallick/status/1207594137043787776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is not Okay. <br><br>NOT OKAY at all. <a href="https://t.co/cBSRGfwGfJ">pic.twitter.com/cBSRGfwGfJ</a></p>— Maria Memon (@Maria_Memon) <a href="https://twitter.com/Maria_Memon/status/1207597639832870912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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Looks like judges had some personal issues with Mush?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is way too much! Will have serious consequences. <a href="https://t.co/GyaCqocDta">https://t.co/GyaCqocDta</a> <a href="https://t.co/UH3AQ1194q">pic.twitter.com/UH3AQ1194q</a></p>— Ajmal Jami (@ajmaljami) <a href="https://twitter.com/ajmaljami/status/1207592191574650881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is outrageous. It's absolute provocation and personal vendetta in the garb of an order. Under what law Justice Waqar Ahmad Seth presiding over the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpecialCourt?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SpecialCourt</a> ordered <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muharraf?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Muharraf</a>'s corpse to be dragged to the D-Chowk and be hanged there for 3-days? <a href="https://t.co/qzTBNrCAbb">pic.twitter.com/qzTBNrCAbb</a></p>— Ali Salman Alvi (@alisalmanalvi) <a href="https://twitter.com/alisalmanalvi/status/1207602458903678977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is absolutely and completely insane <a href="https://t.co/qSeXYYPtp5">pic.twitter.com/qSeXYYPtp5</a></p>— Zarrar Khuhro (@ZarrarKhuhro) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZarrarKhuhro/status/1207598879086186497?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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Special court hands death penalty to former military dictator Parvez Musharraf in high treason case

Looks like judges had some personal issues with Mush?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is way too much! Will have serious consequences. <a href="https://t.co/GyaCqocDta">https://t.co/GyaCqocDta</a> <a href="https://t.co/UH3AQ1194q">pic.twitter.com/UH3AQ1194q</a></p>— Ajmal Jami (@ajmaljami) <a href="https://twitter.com/ajmaljami/status/1207592191574650881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Heard about paragraph 66 on the TV channels and now have read it online. Unbelievable! The judgment gives the impression as if Musharraf raped and killed minors. This truly reflects the personal issues that the judges had with Musharraf, and also their personal bias in the whole issue. Wow, just wow at this particular paragraph!
 
Heard about paragraph 66 on the TV channels and now have read it online. Unbelievable! The judgment gives the impression as if Musharraf raped and killed minors. This truly reflects the personal issues that the judges had with Musharraf, and also their personal bias in the whole issue. Wow, just wow at this particular paragraph!

Aitzaz Ahsan demands action by Supreme Judical Council against judges who used such a language in verdict against Pervez Musharraf.
 
Heard about paragraph 66 on the TV channels and now have read it online. Unbelievable! The judgment gives the impression as if Musharraf raped and killed minors. This truly reflects the personal issues that the judges had with Musharraf, and also their personal bias in the whole issue. Wow, just wow at this particular paragraph!

He deserves it.
He led to the killing of many hundred innocent civilians.
 
But having said that, this is way too extreme.

This reminds me of what Syria did to the Israeli spy Cohen in the 60s.
 
I am interested in point #68 because if that's implemented the whole PMLN Govt of 2016 especially ex-PM Nawaz, Ch Nisar and ex-COAS Raheel Shareef that helped Musharraf escape will have to face the consequences.
 
Special court hands death penalty to former military dictator Parvez Musharraf in high treason case

Aitzaz Ahsan demands action by Supreme Judical Council against judges who used such a language in verdict against Pervez Musharraf.

I´m not much of a law expert but whichever authority can interfere, should interfere, particularly with regards to the aforementioned paragraph. That sounded just horrible!

I am interested in point #68 because if that's implemented the whole PMLN Govt of 2016 especially ex-PM Nawaz, Ch Nisar and ex-COAS Raheel Shareef that helped Musharraf escape will have to face the consequences.

Yeah, this too was being discussed on Geo News. A lot of people SHOULD land in trouble if that is implemented, but we both know that it will NOT be implemented. If we´re to go by the idealism of justice, then a lot of people should be punished for all this, and why not if we´ve indeed woken up so suddenly?
 
I´m not much of a law expert but whichever authority can interfere, should interfere, particularly with regards to the aforementioned paragraph. That sounded just horrible!



Yeah, this too was being discussed on Geo News. A lot of people SHOULD land in trouble if that is implemented, but we both know that it will NOT be implemented. If we´re to go by the idealism of justice, then a lot of people should be punished for all this, and why not if we´ve indeed woken up so suddenly?

The background of this judge need to be checked. It looks like judge sahab is inspired by TTP type of justice because Islam or our Law don't allow such punishments. Musharraf is being used to trigger Army and create chaos in the country this will have consequences.
 
This judge needs to be hanged first before anyone even lays a finger on Musharraf.
 
Horrible, horrible language by judges and totally un necessary. They never used such words for murderers and rapist.

It's totally personal vendetta.
 
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