Are Salman Ali Agha and Mohammad Rizwan the new Mr. Dependables in Pakistan’s middle order?

[Cricket Warrior]

In the past, Pakistan’s middle order was defined by iconic partnerships Inzamam-ul-Haq and Mohammad Yousuf formed the backbone of many memorable chases, while Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq carried the team through countless pressure situations with their calm and class.

Now a new pairing seems to be emerging in Salman Ali Agha and Mohammad Rizwan two batters who have repeatedly shown composure, game awareness, and the ability to rebuild innings when it matters most. Their growing consistency and understanding at the crease are starting to give Pakistan’s middle order the same sense of reliability that past greats once provided.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985758143465603317

 

[BouncerGuy]

People would have loved if only Salman was mentioned but reality is. Rizwan is a must in that middle order in ODIs and Tests... Salman, we already know, is dependable... He has been pathetic in T20s (both actually), but in ODIs and Tests, you cannot make a team without these 2 guys.

 

[Sachin fan]

I don't think barely winning against a weakened SA team is the endorsement you are looking for.

Wasn't the criticism against Rizbar that they always score big against weakened team while chasing low scores?

So the counterpoint by Rizbar fans is that they are scoring 50s against a weakened team in low chases?

This is the same cycle repeated every time - they are dropped, fans want them back, they are selected for bilateral and score against weak team in low chases. Their fans celebrate big time and make such posts. Then they are brought back in big tournaments. There they fail when needed and their slow approach doesn't work.

Rinse and repeat.

I really want to know what changed from the last time they dropped that these big celebrations by Rizbar fans are happening?

We already knew they can score against weaker teams and in low chases. So what's new? What else have they shown that so many threads praising them is being made?

 

[jnaveen1980]

I endorse this. i want these three guys play for next 3 or 4 years.

 

[BouncerGuy]

SHHHHHH.... keep quiet now

 

[harshjoshi87]

Can't say about Rizwan who is a certified ball eater but Salman is a decent middle order batsman.

 

[Sachin fan]

SHHHHHH.... keep quiet now

View attachment 159221

I am sorry, but apart from Fakhar, those strike rates are abysmal in the modern era. Top batsmen from other countries including the washed Kohli, rohit etc are striking at 95+.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I am sorry, but apart from Fakhar, those strike rates are abysmal in the modern era. Top batsmen from other countries including the washed Kohli, rohit etc are striking at 95+.

Mention other guys form pakistan who can replace them?

 

[Sachin fan]

Mention other guys form pakistan who can replace them?

Probably none at the moment

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Kamran Ghulam or Talat are better suited to batting at no.4. Rizwan should bat at 5 and Agha at 6.

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Probably none at the moment

Exactly.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Probably none at the moment

Thanks.... Case closed

 

[Devadwal]

I am sorry, but apart from Fakhar, those strike rates are abysmal in the modern era. Top batsmen from other countries including the washed Kohli, rohit etc are striking at 95+.

Why didn't you understand simple point- Rizwan comparison is not with other team player but own team and he is better than those player's.

 

[Rana]

So far Agha happily plays into Rizwan’s hands…

He takes the pressure off by taking the initiative to attack and keep the rr in check.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I am sorry, but apart from Fakhar, those strike rates are abysmal in the modern era. Top batsmen from other countries including the washed Kohli, rohit etc are striking at 95+.

Sachin Tendulker avg 45 SR 86
Babar Azam avg 54 SR 88


Era adjusted they must be close to identical at a similar point in their careers. Have several seats. Babar is not perfect but he is miles ahead of tullas like Agha, Talat. Of course it is in your favor to have likes of Riz and Babar out as 152/0 is still fresh in your memory. You have chokers like tulla Agha so that you can keep getting cheap wins over us.

 

[Sachin fan]

Sachin Tendulker avg 45 SR 86
Babar Azam avg 54 SR 88


Era adjusted they must be close to identical at a similar point in their careers. Have several seats. Babar is not perfect but he is miles ahead of tullas like Agha, Talat. Of course it is in your favor to have likes of Riz and Babar out as 152/0 is still fresh in your memory. You have chokers like tulla Agha so that you can keep getting cheap wins over us.

Are you really comparing Sachin who started in 1989 and first 10 year of his career the average score was 220 in cricket? Really? With this era when average score is over 300? Really

Sachin was ahead of players of his era like ponting(80 strike rate) and inzi (74 strike rate) by a long way.

Babar is behind others in his era. You are never going to improve as a nation unless you acknowledge short comings instead of being in denial.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Why didn't you understand simple point- Rizwan comparison is not with other team player but own team and he is better than those player's.

Salman Agha is a better odi batter. He can bat higher.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Are you really comparing Sachin who started in 1989 and first 10 year of his career the average score was 220 in cricket? Really? With this era when average score is over 300? Really

Sachin was ahead of players of his era like ponting(80 strike rate) and inzi (74 strike rate) by a long way.

Babar is behind others in his era. You are never going to improve as a nation unless you acknowledge short comings instead of being in denial.

That is why I said era adjusted. Are you claiming all batting averages have increased by more than 10? I also said a comparable time in their careers; Sachin after a similar number of games had much worse stats.

 

[BouncerGuy]

PLEASE TAKE YOUR PERSONAL FIGHTS SOMEWHERE ELSE

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Salman Agha is a better odi batter. He can bat higher.

Sure he should be opening especially in T20I where he strikes at 78 in Asia Cup.

 

[Sachin fan]

That is why I said era adjusted. Are you claiming all batting averages have increased by more than 10? I also said a comparable time in their careers; Sachin after a similar number of games had much worse stats.

Strike rate became way more important than average in the modern era. Thats what wins you matches and cups.

And what worse stats? How is an average of 30 not good when teams where not even scoring 200?

What era adjusted? You are literally comparing era where 200 was made to era 350 is made and 400 has been breached.

This is why these guys get so much hate. You don't say they are good batsmen. You take a bang average batsman and you are comparing him to someone arguably considered the Goat.

Of course no one will take you seriously after that

 

[RyanRyan10]

Sure he should be opening especially in T20I where he strikes at 78 in Asia Cup.

My post was on his odi batting, not t20is.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Strike rate became way more important than average in the modern era. Thats what wins you matches and cups.

And what worse stats? How is an average of 30 not good when teams where not even scoring 200?

What era adjusted? You are literally comparing era where 200 was made to era 350 is made and 400 has been breached.

This is why these guys get so much hate. You don't say they are good batsmen. You take a bang average batsman and you are comparing him to someone arguably considered the Goat.

Of course no one will take you seriously after that

Average? Babar is far from average in ODIs. He is one of the GOATs lol. 19 ODI centuries and only 31. He will end up with 35 ODI centuries and you call him average?

What part of era adjusted do you not understand? What part of same stage of careers? Is it not true that Sachin after a similar number of games had much worse stats? He was famous for not getting a 100 for the first 80 or 90 odd games correct? So after the same number of matches as Babar, Sachin was probably averaging 30s, maybe 40 top and striking 75-80. If you want to claim average of 35 = average of 55 then let's see the stats and numbers to back that up.

 

[Devadwal]

Salman Agha is a better odi batter. He can bat higher.

Salman Agha need to bat higher, Hasan Nawaz need to bat higher, Haris need to bat higher or kis kisko top order m batting karoge

 

[BouncerGuy]

Salman Agha need to bat higher, Hasan Nawaz need to bat higher, Haris need to bat higher or kis kisko top order m batting karoge

Maybe... Haris and saim can open along with Hasan nawaz and fakhar at other end... 1 ball each player..

 

[RyanRyan10]

Salman Agha need to bat higher, Hasan Nawaz need to bat higher, Haris need to bat higher or kis kisko top order m batting karoge

I didn't mention the other 2 neither did I post anywhere that they should bat higher. Why don't you stick to the topic?

 

[Devadwal]

I didn't mention the other 2 neither did I post anywhere that they should bat higher. Why don't you stick to the topic?

You did mentioned in other thread in the past. Lol

 

[RyanRyan10]

Maybe... Haris and saim can open along with Hasan nawaz and fakhar at other end... 1 ball each player..

Did I mention Haris and Hasan anywhere?

 

[Farabi]

Are you really comparing Sachin who started in 1989 and first 10 year of his career the average score was 220 in cricket? Really? With this era when average score is over 300? Really

Sachin was ahead of players of his era like ponting(80 strike rate) and inzi (74 strike rate) by a long way.

Babar is behind others in his era. You are never going to improve as a nation unless you acknowledge short comings instead of being in denial.

Yup - Pakistanis ignore strike rate like it’s an afterthought.
Sachin was ahead for his era. Babar is behind for his era.
These days, you’re an impactful batter if your strike rate is at least 95. If Sachin was playing right now, his strike rate would be at least 100.

 

[Farabi]

I am sorry, but apart from Fakhar, those strike rates are abysmal in the modern era. Top batsmen from other countries including the washed Kohli, rohit etc are striking at 95+.

Yup! In Pakistan, Fakhar is seen as an explosive batter. He’s actually a standard white ball batter, but he seems like an “explosive batter” because the rest are below par.
These days, strike rates below 90 is an own goal. Below 85 is no go.

 

[Energy]

Rizwan and Salman got the hard runs yesterday there is no denying that. If it wasn't for that partnership after the top order collapse, the match was lost.

 

[RyanRyan10]

You did mentioned in other thread in the past. Lol

prove it. Else you'll be again exposed for spreading lies about me.

 

[Devadwal]

prove it. Else you'll be again exposed for spreading lies about me.

Everyone's knows it ,, I don't need to prove anything

 

[Major]

Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats

 

[TheSultan]

No4 in the order needs to be a dominant batsman. Rizwan is like that reliable tailender and someone that can do a good job as nightwatchman.

If I was a regular batsman at the end of a test day’s play, I’d say to Rizwan, go on beta, defend the rest of the day and I’ll take over in the morning.

KG should be in the team at no4. Rizwan should be at no7

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Salman Agha is a better odi batter. He can bat higher.

Maybe... Haris and saim can open along with Hasan nawaz and fakhar at other end... 1 ball each player..

Bouncer bro don't forget Usman Khan.


Agha
Usman
Hasan Nawaz
Harris

New fab 4 invincibles. SR 105. Big chikkay guaranteed. If you need additional SR there is always Farhan

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bouncer bro don't forget Usman Khan.


Agha
Usman
Hasan Nawaz
Harris

New fab 4 invincibles. SR 105. Big chikkay guaranteed. If you need additional SR there is always Farhan

Usman is harmless...LOL... He is just a decoy tbh...

 

[Abid Z]

I think Kamran Ghulam should be in the Odi line up but I think he’s not doing so well in domestics right now.

Agha and Rizwan are certainly dependable as long as the ball doesn’t do anything. But you need a proper batter above them. One of Saud or Kamran is a must alongside these two.

I can’t for the life of me think why Frahan is not included as an opener in ODI. HES a proper batsman

 

[Cricket Warrior]

no doubt both are doing great in ODI cricket but problem is the consistency because we cant rely only these two players to score runs everytime, if they fail so whole team bundles out within no time.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats

I think at the moment Rizwan clearly walks into the ODIs and T20Is team of Pakistan ATG. In tests on qualitative factors he might be behind Wasim Bari.

 

[Rana]

I think at the moment Rizwan clearly walks into the ODIs and T20Is team of Pakistan ATG

No he doesn’t

 

[sweep_shot]

Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats

I think Kamran Akmal and Sarfaraz were more impactful than Rizwan in white ball cricket. Maybe even Moin Khan.

 

[Rana]

I think Kamran Akmal and Sarfaraz were more impactful than Rizwan in white ball cricket. Maybe even Moin Khan.

Good.

Never allow Misbah’s rubbish mindset fans normalise nonsense here.

 

[Extra_Cover]

No he doesn’t

Stop projecting your Youth washed lens

Well I normally don't respond to your post because much like 'sea sponges' you lack brain cells and hence ability to comprehend with information. But as a Muslim I do believe in hope and here's me hoping that with this post you might start your journey of comprehension.

Let's assume at start that you believe Kamran Akmal is a better ODI and T20 player than Rizwan. I'm assuming this because you have liked the post favoring Akmal.

Let's start with the comparison of the 2 then. Let's start with T20Is first.

	Matches	Runs	Average	SR	50s	6s	0s
Kamran Akmal	58	987	21.00	119.63	5	31	7
Rizwan	106	3,414	47.41	125.37	30	95	5

Fair to say that Akmal is worse than Rizwan on every count in the table above. But let's not stop there because you have the power to look at player qualitatively rather than just numbers. So let's have a slightly qualitative look at both of these where we compare their performances in tournaments like World Cups. Surely every team brings their A game to the World Cups and that would be the fair reflection on both of their abilities when stakes are high.

	Matches	Runs	Average	SR	50s	6s	0s
Kamran Akmal	30	524	20.96	115.92	3	16	3
Rizwan	23	847	44.57	114.45	8	64	0

So again Kamran Akmal being the power basher he was has a better SR by "1" than Rizwan whilst getting defeated on all other metrics above.

There is not even a debate that any little literate viewer of cricket can unpack the tables above and say Rizwan is better than Akmal but unfortunately the lack of brain cells impact your ability to comprehend simple knowledge. I'm not saying you need help to bring sanity in your life but surely listening and trying to process what is being said can be a good start. If not please do explain with rationale your thought process.

 

[Rana]

Well I normally don't respond to your post because much like 'sea sponges' you lack brain cells and hence ability to comprehend with information. But as a Muslim I do believe in hope and here's me hoping that with this post you might start your journey of comprehension.

Let's assume at start that you believe Kamran Akmal is a better ODI and T20 player than Rizwan. I'm assuming this because you have liked the post favoring Akmal.

Let's start with the comparison of the 2 then. Let's start with T20Is first.

	Matches	Runs	Average	SR	50s	6s	0s
Kamran Akmal	58	987	21.00	119.63	5	31	7
Rizwan	106	3,414	47.41	125.37	30	95	5

Fair to say that Akmal is worse than Rizwan on every count in the table above. But let's not stop there because you have the power to look at player qualitatively rather than just numbers. So let's have a slightly qualitative look at both of these where we compare their performances in tournaments like World Cups. Surely every team brings their A game to the World Cups and that would be the fair reflection on both of their abilities when stakes are high.

	Matches	Runs	Average	SR	50s	6s	0s
Kamran Akmal	30	524	20.96	115.92	3	16	3
Rizwan	23	847	44.57	114.45	8	64	0

So again Kamran Akmal being the power basher he was has a better SR by "1" than Rizwan whilst getting defeated on all other metrics above.

There is not even a debate that any little literate viewer of cricket can unpack the tables above and say Rizwan is better than Akmal but unfortunately the lack of brain cells impact your ability to comprehend simple knowledge. I'm not saying you need help to bring sanity in your life but surely listening and trying to process what is being said can be a good start. If not please do explain with rationale your thought process.

Why don’t you also share Jaysuriya’s international T20i stats too

 

[Extra_Cover]

Why don’t you also share Jaysuriya’s international T20i stats too

Will Jayasuriya walk into Pakistan's ATG T20 team? Why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[Rana]

Will Jayasuriya walk into Pakistan's ATG T20 team? Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Put em up.

You want to portray a guy who has been booted out of the T20i side clearly for being a hindrance as being ATG Pakistan level.

So let’s play the context game. Put up Jaysuriya’s stats and compare them to Rizwan’s.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The real test for them will be to win matches away from home.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Put em up.

You want to portray a guy who has been booted out of the T20i side clearly for being a hindrance as being ATG Pakistan level.

So let’s play the context game. Put up Jaysuriya’s stats and compare them to Rizwan’s.

Wow you really are similar to a 'sea sponge' where miraculously you are functioning without brain cells. Let's recap what happened.

@Major posted - Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats.

I responded - I think at the moment Rizwan clearly walks into the ODIs and T20Is team of Pakistan ATG. In tests on qualitative factors he might be behind Wasim Bari.

You quoted me stating - No he doesn’t

I responded to you with facts comparing Rizwan to its competitor from Pakistan.

Your response - Why don’t you also share Jaysuriya’s international T20i stats too.

Your debating ability is legit gold. I bet no one can stand a debate with you.

 

[Rana]

Wow you really are similar to a 'sea sponge' where miraculously you are functioning without brain cells. Let's recap what happened.

@Major posted - Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats.

I responded - I think at the moment Rizwan clearly walks into the ODIs and T20Is team of Pakistan ATG. In tests on qualitative factors he might be behind Wasim Bari.

You quoted me stating - No he doesn’t

I responded to you with facts comparing Rizwan to its competitor from Pakistan.

Your response - Why don’t you also share Jaysuriya’s international T20i stats too.

Your debating ability is legit gold. I bet no one can stand a debate with you.

Why are you bricking it? You scared to look stupid now?

Rizwan is better than Jaysuriya according to the stats that make him better than Kamran Akmal???

 

[Major]

I think at the moment Rizwan clearly walks into the ODIs and T20Is team of Pakistan ATG. In tests on qualitative factors he might be behind Wasim Bari.

The only one that can challenge him is Bari. I have read some good things about Bari. But Rizwan has the batting edge and no Pakistan hasnt produced a keeper that can bat aswell as Rizwan can.

Bari loses out because of his batting I would say.

 

[Caved12]

Rizwan has always been one of the most dependable players Pakistan has produced in recent times. It’s honestly hard to keep count of how many times he’s rescued the team, across all three formats, when Pakistan was collapsing or under immense pressure. Time and again, he’s done it all: absorbed pressure, stabilized the innings when others were falling apart, and then carried on to score match-saving or match-winning runs.

In all formats, especially in T20Is, Rizwan has been the glue holding the innings together. When wickets tumble around him, he fights through, ensures Pakistan reaches a respectable total, and often takes the team across the line single-handedly. His record is filled with such innings that not only saved Pakistan from embarrassment but also earned him numerous Player of the Match awards, all while showing nerves of steel.

And then there’s his wicketkeeping. Rizwan’s keeping has been nothing short of world-class, consistently sharp, athletic, and flawless. He regularly pulls off catches or stumpings that most other keepers wouldn’t even attempt. It’s rare to see a keeper who maintains such a high standard behind the stumps for this long.

What many fans and critics fail to appreciate is how invaluable Rizwan truly is, not just as a batter or keeper, but as a complete cricketer who brings stability, intensity, and professionalism to the side.

Also, the constant comparisons with players from other countries are pointless. They don’t play under the same conditions, pressures, or system. Pakistan’s team should always be picked from its own talent pool, based on performance, not potential or hype. If someone can’t score runs consistently even in our domestic setup, it’s unrealistic to expect them to suddenly succeed at the international level.

The most valuable people in any cricket structure are those who can accurately judge talent, especially the ability to identify who wont make it. That saves time, effort, and opportunities for others who deserve them. There’s nothing wrong with trying new players, but if the experiment doesn’t work, the sensible thing is to revert to what has worked.

Players like Haris, Usman, Talat, and Khushdil have had their chances, and it’s clear they aren’t up to the international standard. Anyone within the PCB setup who keeps pushing such names despite repeated failures is doing more harm than good and honestly, should have no place in the system.

Rizwan represents what Pakistan cricket should value most: reliability, hard work, and results under pressure. It’s time more people start recognizing that.

 

[Caved12]

In the last ODI, Agha, one of my favourite players, played a fantastic knock but looked a bit jittery early on. Rizwan, who was determined to see Pakistan through, immediately took charge and guided him through those tense moments. You could see Agha getting a little frustrated when a few risky singles were denied, but Rizwan kept communicating, keeping him calm, and reminding him what the situation demanded.

Rizwan’s awareness was spot on, he knew there was no need for risky runs or panic. What Pakistan needed at that point was a steady partnership to maintain the momentum built by the openers and settle the innings. His composure and leadership really stood out.

The frustrating part came later when the batters who followed completely lost their nerve, playing as if they were chasing 100 runs off 70 balls. It’s unbelievable how quickly some of our players crumble under a bit of pressure.

Both Rizwan and Agha, though, deserve full credit. They showed maturity, composure, and the ability to absorb pressure qualities that make them true match-winners.

 

[BouncerGuy]

They are the backbone of the middle order... We really need another guy from lower-middle order to step up along with them... Hasan Nawaz has been poor so far, Hussain talat is somebody we know is not the guy we can trust as usual.

 

[RyanRyan10]

@Rana You see how rattled some fanboys are over Salman Agha receiving praise for his ODI performances. They know they can't criticize his ODI performances, so they are bringing up other players into the discussion.

 

[Rana]

@Rana You see how rattled some fanboys are over Salman Agha receiving praise for his ODI performances. They know they can't criticize his ODI performances, so they are bringing up other players into the discussion.

And still they don’t realise how stupid they look. @Extra_Cover used Kamran Akmal’s stats to argue Rizwan gets into ATG pakistan T20 side ( ) only to brick it when asked to compare Rizwan with Jaysuriya

These jobbers know I will not allow casual normalisation of nonsense here.

 

[TheSultan]

Rizwan is on track to become the greatest keeper from pakistan. Walks into the pakistani ATG teams for all formats

You never saw Moin Khan in ODIs.

And no, coming out with stat comparisons won’t work either.

Those who watched him know.

Sarfraz and Kamran were also a lot better batsmen in white ball too.

If even put Saleem Yousuf ahead of Rizwan

 

[Rana]

You never saw Moin Khan in ODIs.

And no, coming out with stat comparisons won’t work either.

Those who watched him know.

Sarfraz and Kamran were also a lot better batsmen in white ball too.

If even put Saleem Yousuf ahead of Rizwan

Bro you have to understand @Major ’s thought process. He was convinced that Joginder Sharma was a more impactful bowler than Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[Rana]

In all formats, especially in T20Is, Rizwan has been the glue holding the innings together.

Yes, the “glue” that had to be booted out so that Pakistan cricket could breathe again!

These Rizwan fans are an absolute travesty to Pakistan cricket! It feels like Pakistan is a different piece of land on Pluto which Rizwan represented!

 

[Abid Z]

no doubt both are doing great in ODI cricket but problem is the consistency because we cant rely only these two players to score runs everytime, if they fail so whole team bundles out

And still they don’t realise how stupid they look. @Extra_Cover used Kamran Akmal’s stats to argue Rizwan gets into ATG pakistan T20 side ( ) only to brick it when asked to compare Rizwan with Jaysuriya

These jobbers know I will not allow casual normalisation of nonsense here.

Because jayasuria, pant, Healy, haddin, flower, sanga or any other international keeping-batsman is irrelevant to the debate. Rizwan can be compared to rashid, moin, akmal , sarfaraz and he’s right up there as one of the best in Pak. You would have to produce a player in the Pak set up who can challenge his prowess with bat, keeping and grit. There actually aren’t any that I’ve see. Of course they may emerge soon and that’s welcome but for now he’s here to stay despite his flaws and there are a few. I hate the way his bat comes down from 2nd slip. In England he will be a walking wicket but that’s for coaches to sort out. For fans he provides middle order stability in a very fragile batting lineup. He’s not te biggest problem

 

[Rana]

Because jayasuria, pant, Healy, haddin, flower, sanga or any other international keeping-batsman is irrelevant to the debate. Rizwan can be compared to rashid, moin, akmal , sarfaraz and he’s right up there as one of the best in Pak. You would have to produce a player in the Pak set up who can challenge his prowess with bat, keeping and grit. There actually aren’t any that I’ve see. Of course they may emerge soon and that’s welcome but for now he’s here to stay despite his flaws and there are a few. I hate the way his bat comes down from 2nd slip. In England he will be a walking wicket but that’s for coaches to sort out. For fans he provides middle order stability in a very fragile batting lineup. He’s not te biggest problem

I beg to differ

Context is never irrelevant to the debate.

Stats would suggest that Rizwan is better than Lara, Inzimam and Dravid in ODIs

 

[Abid Z]

Yes, the “glue” that had to be booted out so that Pakistan cricket could breathe again!

These Rizwan fans are an absolute travesty to Pakistan cricket! It feels like Pakistan is a different piece of land on Pluto which Rizwan represented!

Because in the t20 set up Pak have to introduce a younger keeper to develop for the future. It’s been a major fault of PCB to keep the same 11 in every format more or less. The T20 team has to become an 11 of specialist t20 players.

 

[Rana]

Because in the t20 set up Pak have to introduce a younger keeper to develop for the future. It’s been a major fault of PCB to keep the same 11 in every format more or less. The T20 team has to become an 11 of specialist t20 players.

Well your “glue” should know what the team needs and where they need it.

“The glue” kept him and Babar stuck into each other. That’s it.

 

[Abid Z]

I beg to differ

Context is never irrelevant to the debate.

Stats would suggest that Rizwan is better than Lara, Inzimam and Dravid in ODIs

Well you can differ all you like and yes context matters. It just depends on what context you refer to. For instance

Jaya played alongside arvinda, ranatunga then sanga jawardena so he was integral to a great batting line up.
Dhoni was alongside tendulkar, kholi and co.

So these are keepers in great batting lineup ups

Rizwan is batting in a very fragile line up. Pak team often folds like a pack of cards. The last thing you want is to start unnecessary chopping and changing. Get the bowling right first, then top order batting then worry about the middle order.

 

[Rana]

Jaya played alongside arvinda, ranatunga then sanga jawardena so he was integral to a great batting line up.
Dhoni was alongside tendulkar, kholi and co.

Are you saying Jaysuriya would alter his playing style if he didn’t play with those players named??

Rizwan has played alongside massive T20 players in Multan Sultans. Was he batting fearlessly as a T20 opener for Multan??

 

[Abid Z]

Well your “glue” should know what the team needs and where they need it.

“The glue” kept him and Babar stuck into each other. That’s it.

I didn’t use the word glue but I do recognise that in over 40 years of watching Pak cricket sometimes it’s better the devil you know. You need to make one change at a time. If you start doing major lineup changes too often this instability stops the team from developing.

 

[Abid Z]

Are you saying Jaysuriya would alter his playing style if he didn’t play with those players named??

Rizwan has played alongside massive T20 players in Multan Sultans. Was he batting fearlessly as a T20 opener for Multan??

I’m saying there is a qualitative difference between a keeper-batter slotting into a team of stars and a keeper batter having to carry a side. Andy flower is a more appropriate comparison

 

[Rana]

I’m saying there is a qualitative difference between a keeper-batter slotting into a team of stars and a keeper batter having to carry a side. Andy flower is a more appropriate comparison

I think you are reaching here just like all Rizwan fans.

Keep it going. Hopefully Rizwan gets picked for the T20 World Cup and then let’s see what kind of excuses you people come up with when NOTHING changes.

 

[Abid Z]

I think you are reaching here just like all Rizwan fans.

Keep it going. Hopefully Rizwan gets picked for the T20 World Cup and then let’s see what kind of excuses you people come up with when NOTHING changes.

Well nobody is reaching and it’s not about preference it’s about what works for the team. I just don’t see how Rizwan fits into a t20 Pak team. Better try out somebody from domestics but that’s a different debate. A specialist keeper who can bat or a good batsman who can also keep.


For other formats he’s essential for now in a very brittle lineup. In actual fact Pak needs to develop the Odi team more so that once we get the top order fixed Rizwan can be a permanent test only keeper batsman.

 

[Rana]

Better try out somebody from domestics but that’s a different debate. A specialist keeper who can bat or a good batsman who can also keep.

Well the debate ends with Mohammad Harris. He happily bats at 7 even if that’s where the team wants him to bat.

You and others need to show patience after giving good suggestions. Showing patience on your good suggestions will bare rewards. You just have to stick to it.

 

[Major]

You never saw Moin Khan in ODIs.

And no, coming out with stat comparisons won’t work either.

Those who watched him know.

Sarfraz and Kamran were also a lot better batsmen in white ball too.

If even put Saleem Yousuf ahead of Rizwan

Moin khans stats are there for everyone to see....

No one walks into an atg team with such poor batting stats...

 

[Abid Z]

Well the debate ends with Mohammad Harris. He happily bats at 7 even if that’s where the team wants him to bat.

You and others need to show patience after giving good suggestions. Showing patience on your good suggestions will bare rewards. You just have to stick to it.

I don’t know about Harris. From what I see he’s neither a keeper nor a batsman, same for Usman, and azam khan.

What I think (my preference) is that it’s easier to learn batting if you are a specialist keeper and coming lower down the order if you’re only asked to contribute 10-20 runs in t20.

But asking a batter to keep is an altogether harder task. Plus add the huge pressure and gulf in standard between internationals and domestics and this becomes a non starter.

But coach thinks otherwise hence Usman or Harris.

The bottom line is keeping is a very tough and specialist task even in t20’s. The drops and missed stumpings can cost the team dearly much more than the 10-20 runs scored. I just can’t believe in a nation of 250million the selectors can’t find a specialist keeper. But then even in PSL I never saw a keeper than genuinely stood out.

Rizwan in t20’s is a no go though. A backward step. I guess they are working through this problem.

 

[ads101]

He’s a keeper and a batsman. That means something. Kamran was a worse batsmen than his team mates and this was tolerated because he could keep. Even Sarfraz except in the early part was a worse batsman than the rest. It was tolerated.

And those two were not good keepers, particularly the former. Rizwan is. And he isn’t even worse than his fellow batsmen in his team. Yet somehow has to be justified by comparing him to the best foreign batsmen.

As I said before standards are ridiculously high with Rizwan. That hasn’t been the case with other keepers.

Haris has not only been poor with the bat he’s been poor with the gloves. Azam in his short spell even worse at both.

It wasn’t even a particularly high bar to hit. They just had a be somewhat decent at keeping and batting. They failed in both. Maybe they will suceed eventually but they haven’t now.

Usman has a far higher chance of replacing Rizwan and I’m much more hopeful. Actually dominated PSL. Even his keeping to my surprise has been better than Haris let some Azam.

 

[Abid Z]

Moin khans stats are there for everyone to see....

No one walks into an atg team with such poor batting stats...

Your premise is entirely misplaced. Moin was an average keeper and average batter and fractious character but his place in the team of stars meant he could go under the radar. But rashid was a far better keeper and just as average batter. They would both compete against each other and it was healthy for the team. Kept moin in check.

Right now Rizwan has no competition. This is a disaster for the team. He needs healthy competition from a younger specialist keeper to keep him in check.

 

[Major]

Your premise is entirely misplaced. Moin was an average keeper and average batter and fractious character but his place in the team of stars meant he could go under the radar. But rashid was a far better keeper and just as average batter. They would both compete against each other and it was healthy for the team. Kept moin in check.

Right now Rizwan has no competition. This is a disaster for the team. He needs healthy competition from a younger specialist keeper to keep him in check.

Exactly. But we have some delusional fans who only remember a few good innings of moin and think he walks into the atg team of pakistan

 

[ads101]

Your premise is entirely misplaced. Moin was an average keeper and average batter and fractious character but his place in the team of stars meant he could go under the radar. But rashid was a far better keeper and just as average batter. They would both compete against each other and it was healthy for the team. Kept moin in check.

Right now Rizwan has no competition. This is a disaster for the team. He needs healthy competition from a younger specialist keeper to keep him in check.

They hardly tried anyone to Kamran. It’s only after he failed so badly they finally moved on. Kamran always got dropped for a few games then all was forgiven quickly.

Sarfraz again, mainly had an unchallenged run. Even with him declining as a player, keeper and fitness. Until Misbah removed him entirely. I think he definitely could have benefitted from some competition.

Rizwan has faced the board trying to experiment/add in other players to keep up the pressure. Despite him mostly working hard in terms of fitness and keeping. And the competitors have hardly been smashing the door down in the same way say Sarfraz was doing when Kamran was keeper. It’s ironic because he is both the least talented out of the three and also the hardest working and fittest. The others probably needed that competition much more. You could see Kamran especially he reinvented his game in PSL after he was dropped, but sadly PCB had given up on him by then. I’m pretty confident Rizwan would both keep up his fitness and keeping regardless of
competition or not. I’m not worried about the work ethic of Rizwan like I was with the other two. It’s fustrating because both Kamran and Sarfraz and potential to really become world class players.

 

[gazza619]

no doubt both are doing great in ODI cricket but problem is the consistency because we cant rely only these two players to score runs everytime, if they fail so whole team bundles out within no time.

Agreed. It is only a matter of time that Babar comes to the party. Lets be honest. This is the best top 5 batters we have had in ODIs since the days of Anwar, Sohail & Inzi.

1. Saim
2. Fakhar
3. King
4. Riz
5. Agha

 

[ads101]

Agreed. It is only a matter of time that Babar comes to the party. Lets be honest. This is the best top 5 batters we have had in ODIs since the days of Anwar, Sohail & Inzi.

1. Saim
2. Fakhar
3. King
4. Riz
5. Agha

If they were all on their prime it would actually be a very good line up. Sadly fakhar, Babar and Rizwan seem past their prime, Saim is before his prime. And Agha maybe is the only one right in it.

That middle generation, 27 or so who should be at their absolute prime hasn’t happened for Pakistan somehow. It’s like they’ve been skipped over.

 

[gazza619]

If they were all on their prime it would actually be a very good line up. Sadly fakhar, Babar and Rizwan seem past their prime, Saim is before his prime. And Agha maybe is the only one right in it.

That middle generation, 27 or so who should be at their absolute prime hasn’t happened for Pakistan somehow. It’s like they’ve been skipped over.

The shenanigans that his highness Naqvi has played since being the big boss has no doubt impacted morale and performances of Fakhar, Riz & Babar.

Fakhar may have less time due to fitness issues but RizBar have another 4 years of gas.

 

[Abid Z]

They hardly tried anyone to Kamran. It’s only after he failed so badly they finally moved on. Kamran always got dropped for a few games then all was forgiven quickly.

Sarfraz again, mainly had an unchallenged run. Even with him declining as a player, keeper and fitness. Until Misbah removed him entirely. I think he definitely could have benefitted from some competition.

Rizwan has faced the board trying to experiment/add in other players to keep up the pressure. Despite him mostly working hard in terms of fitness and keeping. And the competitors have hardly been smashing the door down in the same way say Sarfraz was doing when Kamran was keeper. It’s ironic because he is both the least talented out of the three and also the hardest working and fittest. The others probably needed that competition much more. You could see Kamran especially he reinvented his game in PSL after he was dropped, but sadly PCB had given up on him by then. I’m pretty confident Rizwan would both keep up his fitness and keeping regardless of
competition or not. I’m not worried about the work ethic of Rizwan like I was with the other two. It’s fustrating because both Kamran and Sarfraz and potential to really become world class players.

You are absolutely right in every point. I think they did try other keepers around that Kamran era though.
Adnan akmal, humayun farhat and zulqarnain haider. All had their problems. I think for a while I even remember umar akmal Imran farhat and younis khan keeping.

The point being a specialist keeper who is also sane and not a stop gap or nepotistic choice and can bat is actually a rarity in Pak cricket. The younger fans don’t know how lucky they are to have Rizwan.