Asad Shafiq - The man of crisis

[JibranAnsari]

100 at 68 SR wont help the team

 

[Bullet Drive]

Averaging 63 from AUS and NZ tests.

Hope we bat first. Play Haris at 6. Shafiq at 3. Azhar & Shan to open. Will give Shafiq a chance to score a ton.

I do however think he batted pretty poorly this test. The first innings he was bowled and then through his wicket away at the worst time. Second innings target was very capable but he was very negative. He had a lot of hit-me balls but he hit straight to fielder.

Still believe he is a good batsman and will average in the 40-45 mould for Pakistan which is very good.

 

[Haz95]

He tells me himself he wishes he could bat at 3. He is made for 3 and Azhar is made for opening.

I wish I knew that many cricketers

 

[cricketAXEpert]

It was far from lifeless by the time he came to bat.

Yes & South Africa was caught tampering with the ball. Once that happened and the ball was changed batting became easier. This was the same track Graeme Smith Scored a double ton. The reason South Africans Tampered with the ball, was that they knew that Pakistan can still draw the test and win the series. Although They had a massive first innings lead....

However I do want Asad To perform and lift his game.

 

[Bullet Drive]

 

[Mamoon]

Not many daddy scores which highlights his concentration problem but even Tendulkar doesn't have a 250 so as long as Shafiq can churn out those hundreds regularly, he will be well worth his place in the side.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Not many daddy scores which highlights his concentration problem but even Tendulkar doesn't have a 250 so as long as Shafiq can churn out those hundreds regularly, he will be well worth his place in the side.

All of his first-class hundreds have come opening or at 3 yet we play him at 6

Then his list-a tons come opening/3.

 

[hussain.r97]

He's always been a very good player, he was playing well in the first innings but his wicket was untimely, and a huge blow for Pakistan. He needs to take a leaf from Azhar's book and get those concentration levels up. He's looked even better ever since he's made an effort to get that strike rate up.

I really hope they give him all 5 ODIs vs New Zealand at #3, but that's too much to ask for with Younis Khan likely to come back

A ton for Shafiq would do nicely for him, and might turn his ODI career around.

 

[hussain.r97]

All of his first-class hundreds have come opening or at 3 yet we play him at 6

Then his list-a tons come opening/3.

Exactly He's a top order batsman forced into the lower order, which is not fair IMO.

Azhar Ali is not doing a #3's job, he has to open, he is simply not a #3 batsman, nor can he become one. Shafiq is perfect for the #3 role. I can guarantee that Shafiq would be averaging at least 42+ if he was batted at #3. He's being wasted at #6. How can you bat one of your best batsman at #6?

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

He's always been a very good player, he was playing well in the first innings but his wicket was untimely, and a huge blow for Pakistan. He needs to take a leaf from Azhar's book and get those concentration levels up. He's looked even better ever since he's made an effort to get that strike rate up.

I really hope they give him all 5 ODIs vs New Zealand at #3, but that's too much to ask for with Younis Khan likely to come back

A ton for Shafiq would do nicely for him, and might turn his ODI career around.

In the test series he may have a "high" average of around 80, but compared to everyone else it is low where the likes of Sarfraz/Younis/Misbah/Azhar were averaging 150+.

But his dismissal in the test is the entire point of this topic, he tried to up the tempo but couldn't. He was set after facing so many deliveries yet on that flat track he tried to attack and got out quite easily, and we have seen it so often how he gets out in tests once he attempts to play positively.

Now if he cannot attack in tests after being set, how can you expect him to attack from the get go as a no. 3 in an ODI if we are chasing 300? This is why he averages 26 at a strike rate of 69, he is not fit for LOI. I will stick my neck out and say that I feel his height is the reason, when I see him bat it just doesn't look fluid and he looks cramped because of his height. Unlike Tendulkar who when I watch bat I don't see his height hindering him.

In fact only recently England revealed they were reluctant to play James Taylor and dropped him because he isn't 'tall enough' for international cricket, with ex-players such as Pietersen and Boycott supporting that argument. And I'm sure they know more than the vast majority of us even though James Taylor is one of a the best county players in England by a long stretch.

 

[hussain.r97]

Not many daddy scores which highlights his concentration problem but even Tendulkar doesn't have a 250 so as long as Shafiq can churn out those hundreds regularly, he will be well worth his place in the side.

The most impact Test scores aren't the big daddy scores unless they are scored in quick time. I personally think the most effective Test innings are between 100-175

 

[hussain.r97]

In the test series he may have a "high" average of around 80, but compared to everyone else it is low where the likes of Sarfraz/Younis/Misbah/Azhar were averaging 150+.

But his dismissal in the test is the entire point of this topic, he tried to up the tempo but couldn't. He was set after facing so many deliveries yet on that flat track he tried to attack and got out quite easily, and we have seen it so often how he gets out in tests once he attempts to play positively.

Now if he cannot attack in tests after being set, how can you expect him to attack from the get go as a no. 3 in an ODI if we are chasing 300? This is why he averages 26 at a strike rate of 69, he is not fit for LOI. I will stick my neck out and say that I feel his height is the reason, when I see him bat it just doesn't look fluid and he looks cramped because of his height. Unlike Tendulkar who when I watch bat I don't see his height hindering him.

In fact only recently England revealed they were reluctant to play James Taylor and dropped him because he isn't 'tall enough' for international cricket, with ex-players such as Pietersen and Boycott supporting that argument. And I'm sure they know more than the vast majority of us even though James Taylor is one of a the best county players in England by a long stretch.

Everyone else also batted more than him. Shafiq has batted 4 times in the last 8 innings.
He made a 89 in one,
a quick 21 towards the declaration of the innings,
44 and got out untimely,
41 not out drawing the game.

I wasn't trying to justify his dismisal. And he can up the tempo, one dismisal doesn't take that away from him. By your logic, Umar Akmal can't up the tempo either because he often gets out trying

Shafiq has upped the tempo many times before too, lets not forget. Also, how can you say he can't bat fast when according to his List A record, he averages 54 at a strike rate of almost 90.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Everyone else also batted more than him. Shafiq has batted 4 times in the last 8 innings.
He made a 89 in one,
a quick 21 towards the declaration of the innings,
44 and got out untimely,
41 not out drawing the game.

I wasn't trying to justify his dismisal. And he can up the tempo, one dismisal doesn't take that away from him. By your logic, Umar Akmal can't up the tempo either because he often gets out trying

Shafiq has upped the tempo many times before too, lets not forget. Also, how can you say he can't bat fast when according to his List A record, he averages 54 at a strike rate of almost 90.

I would like you to show me where he has batted at a brisk pace in international cricket (this doesn't include warm-up/tour games). If you want to compare him to Umar Akmal then the 2011 World Cup match against Australia is a perfect example of how Umar Akmal trumps him in the modern ODI game.

And Shafiq has played enough matches now that you can no longer use his List-A/domestic stats as an indicator. Someone that has played 50 test innings and 50 ODIs should have painted a clear image of their ability; so I am waiting for you to show me where he has 'upped the tempo many times' because I can't think of one, let alone many.

 

[hussain.r97]

I would like you to show me where he has batted at a brisk pace in international cricket (this doesn't include warm-up/tour games). If you want to compare him to Umar Akmal then the 2011 World Cup match against Australia is a perfect example of how Umar Akmal trumps him in the modern ODI game.

And Shafiq has played enough matches now that you can no longer use his List-A/domestic stats as an indicator. Someone that has played 50 test innings and 50 ODIs should have painted a clear image of their ability; so I am waiting for you to show me where he has 'upped the tempo many times' because I can't think of one, let alone many.

Pretty much every partnership Shafiq has with Sarfraz is an example of him upping the tempo. His 100 in SA started slow and he upped the tempo later on. etc

The 50 ODIs for him don't speak anything because he's barely batted at his position, which is much more important in ODIs. He should be batting in the top 3 (preferably #3). Yet they waste him at #4 and #5. I can guarantee you if he's give a consistent run at #3, he will deliver the goods.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Lol and that's the beauty of Sarfraz, who despite all his pressure and mistreatment, he has achieved a higher test ranking than Shafiq ever has. Sarfraz pushes the batsman that partner him, but whilst Shafiq 'upped the tempo' and got out, Sarfraz not only batted considerably faster, but also considerably longer.

Shafiq has been given a very long rope and was given a consistent chance in the ODI series against Australia at number 3 but still failed. you can say he scored 50 in the 3rd ODI but that too came at a very slow rate chasing a low score and we ended up losing.

We can agree to disagree, but Fawad Alam/Umar Akmal/Babar Azam/Haris Sohail at 3 would be way better.

 

[hussain.r97]

Lol and that's the beauty of Sarfraz, who despite all his pressure and mistreatment, he has achieved a higher test ranking than Shafiq ever has. Sarfraz pushes the batsman that partner him, but whilst Shafiq 'upped the tempo' and got out, Sarfraz not only batted considerably faster, but also considerably longer.

Shafiq has been given a very long rope and was given a consistent chance in the ODI series against Australia at number 3 but still failed. you can say he scored 50 in the 3rd ODI but that too came at a very slow rate chasing a low score and we ended up losing.

We can agree to disagree, but Fawad Alam/Umar Akmal/Babar Azam/Haris Sohail at 3 would be way better.

Nope.
Babar is an opener.
Fawad has been found out, he's too one dimensional, and is weak against pace.
Umar Akmal doesn't know how to build an innings, so he can either open or finish.
Haris Sohail is more of a middle order batsman.

Shafiq did ok in the ODIs, and should come good after another series or two. His scoring rate was justified because they were chasing a low total and wickets were falling all around him. Oh and actually Shafiq has achieved a higher ranking than Sarfraz.

 

[salman24]

Man of crisis averages 26 in almost 50 ODI yet still manages to get preferred over Akmal and Fawad

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Nope.
Babar is an opener.
Fawad has been found out, he's too one dimensional, and is weak against pace.
Umar Akmal doesn't know how to build an innings, so he can either open or finish.
Haris Sohail is more of a middle order batsman.

Shafiq did ok in the ODIs, and should come good after another series or two. His scoring rate was justified because they were chasing a low total and wickets were falling all around him. Oh and actually Shafiq has achieved a higher ranking than Sarfraz.

Babar can bat anywhere in the lineup.
Haris Sohail can bat in the top order easily.
Umar Akmal does have tempermental issues but still is 1 of our best LOI players and is eulogised by cricket experts across the globe.
And LOL Fawad found out? Someone that was averaging 49 and is now averaging 45 has been found out? But someone that averages 26 at a strike rate of 69 after 50 ODIs has not been found out and will come good?

I think this debate is over, you can wish him well all he likes but if he is selected in the world cup I guarantee you he will flop big time. We will see, mark my words.

 

[Mamoon]

Shafiq was our best batsman in the 2011 World Cup.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Shafiq was our best batsman in the 2011 World Cup.

Based on what?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/icc_c...most_runs_career.html?id=4857;type=tournament

It was Umar Akmal by far who scored 8 runs less than Misbah (who played 1 more innings) but at a much higher strike rate. In fact Shafiq isn't even in the picture there with Hafeez, K. Akmal and YOUNIS performing better than him ) ) )

And that was 4 years ago, how about we fast forward to the Champions Trophy last year where Shafiq the man of crisis averaged a grand 20.50 at a blistering strike rate of 67.21.

 

[Mamoon]

Based on what?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/icc_c...most_runs_career.html?id=4857;type=tournament

It was Umar Akmal by far who scored 8 runs less than Misbah (who played 1 more innings) but at a much higher strike rate. In fact Shafiq isn't even in the picture there with Hafeez, K. Akmal and YOUNIS performing better than him ) ) )

And that was 4 years ago, how about we fast forward to the Champions Trophy last year where Shafiq the man of crisis averaged a grand 20.50 at a blistering strike rate of 67.21.

Erroneous analysis as usual.

He played only 3 matches at the World Cup and warmed the bench when the likes of Hafeez, Shehzad struggled against Kenya, Zimbabwe and Canada.

Kamran failed against Canada and New Zealand while scoring runs against Kenya and SL.

Younis scored against SL and Kenya only.

Umar was the only other batsman along with Misbah (to an extent) who showed some consistency and left the tournament with his head high.

When Shafiq was drafted into the team to replace Shehzad Pakistan had scored 192 against NZ and 184 against Canada in the last 2 matches respectively with both openers failing miserably.

He scored 78* in his very first game vs Zimbabwe which of course now is characterized as 'minnow bashing' but when you consider the context, it was an excellent knock batting at number 3 where the openers couldn't buy a run in the last few games. Hafeez's 49 not out was his only meaningful contribution with the bat in the World Cup apart from scoring a half century against WI chasing 112 on excellent batting track in Mirpur.

Anyone who considers that minnow bashing along with Afridi's 5 fer vs Canada and Umar's 71 against Kenya minnow bashing has totally lost perspective.

This was followed by his best ODI innings to date against Australia and on paper you will see 46 runs only, but if you had watched that match, you'd know what a crucial knock it was.

A uncharacteristically two paced Colombo pitch on which Brett Lee was absolutely rampant and our batsmen all at sea against him. The target was low but in those conditions, it was a tricky one. Not a single Australian batsmen could play a fluent knock and limped around for a while before succumbing.

Once again, both openers fell cheaply to him and Misbah couldn't last a delivery. Only Younis showed some resistance before he was knocked over by Lee obviously.

Shafiq again at 3 held that innings together, batted for 81 deliveries and absorbed the hostile spells of not only Lee but also Tait and Johnson (all bowling 90+).

His partnership with Umar was excellent and the best partnership for Pakistan in the World Cup. Both played extremely well.

In the semi final, he looked very assured and was playing a very fine knock who was simply unable to construct a partnership with Younis who was playing a pathetic innings on the other hand and allowing the RRR to creep up with every passing over. Yes Shafiq missed a cut that he should have executed but overall in the match, he was the only batsman along with Umar who showed some resolve.

Hafeez scored 43 with Pakistan making a blistering start, and played a ridiculous shot in the 16th over with Pakistan perfectly placed at 70/1. In came Younis and in the next 10 overs, Pakistan scored 30 runs only with Younis catching thin air against Yuvraj and Harbhajan with Shafiq the only making things tick.

All these factors considering and the fact that he was played brought in as a replacement for a player who had a shocking tournament (Shehzad) and he was totally in and out of the side before that and batted at number 3 with the openers failing, his performance in the World Cup was definitely very good. You can make a case for Umar as our best batsman as well but he was a fixture of the team playing regularly every match and was batting at number 6 - the odds were stacked against Shafiq and he did not disappoint.

As far as the Champions Trophy is concerned, apart from Misbah every batsman failed and the world class Junaid Khan averaged 100+ with the ball and Ajmal was outbowled by Jadeja and Tredwell.

Pakistan had a shocker of a tournament with Misbah the only one along with Wahab to a degree who left the tournament with some dignity intact so singling out Shafiq is nothing but nitpicking.

He's a good backfoot player and will enjoy the bounce and pace of Australian and NZ pitches. He scored an 84 in NZ early in his career in Tests and came to the crease with Pakistan in trouble and his performance against SA in Tests against the world's best pace attack shows that he prefers fast bowlers.

The thing these days, everyone has access to Cricinfo statsguru and think of themselves as statisticians but have zero perception. This is the problem with stats, they do not lie because numbers are numbers, but without context, they are severely misleading.

You can Make Younis and Jayawardene look equal in ODIs in statsguru but everyone knows Jayawardene is miles better than him.

There is no substitute to watching the game.

 

[Mamoon]

^^ Anyone who watched the World Cup will testify the positive impact Shafiq made on the team and our batting immediately looked in better shape with him batting at number 3 but here comes a statistician with some filtered results trying to showcase that Hafeez, Kamran and Younis performed better than him. Lol.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

I will say is that from that Champions Trophy squad that those flop batsmen like Farhat, K. Akmal and Malik are gone (I hope).

I will just add that in 50 ODIs Shafiq hasn't scored a century, nor has he played a single dominating innings even though he has played in every position from top order to finisher, something that U. Akmal, Maqsood and Fawad have achieved. I have never seen Shafiq run rampant and he never will because he is physically challenged because of his height.

I will touch upon what I mentioned in another thread where England dropped James Taylor because he is 'too small for international cricket' yet is one of the best County players by a mile. Shafiq doesn't look good when he plays, when he tries to attack he flops.

The difference when him and Sarfraz batting together was evident as Sarfraz could rotate strike with ease from ball 1 and get effortless boundaries, whereas Shafiq (despite being in for 1 hour) would bat out maidens which resulted in us drawing the match. Not taking the initiative to chase 260 in 90 overs is a reflection of his LOI ability.

 

[Bilal7]

Shafiq was excellent in the WC, its a shame he wasn't there from the start.

I don't think he should be playing the upcoming one though, Hafeez, Maqsood and Fawad are better options at #3.

 

[Sunny786]

Shafiq is starting to become one of my favorite players. His batting order is a little low for me though. But I don't really see anyone moving so I guess he just needs to stay at his current number

 

[ExplicitAI]

^^ Anyone who watched the World Cup will testify the positive impact Shafiq made on the team and our batting immediately looked in better shape with him batting at number 3 but here comes a statistician with some filtered results trying to showcase that Hafeez, Kamran and Younis performed better than him. Lol.

To put it simply, Asad shapes our batting nicely by beefing it up, however it's all up to his consistency that will allow him to score big scores. Something that was missing in ODI's from him.

 

[salman24]

Everyone else also batted more than him. Shafiq has batted 4 times in the last 8 innings.
He made a 89 in one,
a quick 21 towards the declaration of the innings,
44 and got out untimely,
41 not out drawing the game.

I wasn't trying to justify his dismisal. And he can up the tempo, one dismisal doesn't take that away from him. By your logic, Umar Akmal can't up the tempo either because he often gets out trying

Shafiq has upped the tempo many times before too, lets not forget. Also, how can you say he can't bat fast when according to his List A record, he averages 54 at a strike rate of almost 90.

Have Asad Shafiq fans resorted to making up fake stats now to justify his ability. He does not average over 40 in any format including first class and list A. How do you say he averages 54 with a strike rate of 94?

His list A average is 35 with a strike rate of 77!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/316397.html

 

[salman24]

Have Asad Shafiq fans resorted to making up fake stats now to justify his ability. He does not average over 40 in any format including first class and list A. How do you say he averages 54 with a strike rate of 94?

His list A average is 35 with a strike rate of 77!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/316397.html

Correction of a typo above .The 94 above should be a 90 to quote you correctly lol.

Either way made up stats

 

[Pete Rose]

Correction of a typo above .The 94 above should be a 90 to quote you correctly lol.

Either way made up stats

Meh, wasting time on stats, that too from "plz plz plz select razzaq he is the bestest ever'

Back on point, Asad shafiq is Pakistan's best young batsman. What's the problem.

 

[fahadshah]

Excuse. Throwing away has nothing to do with batting position.

He has concentration issues.

Then there's some invalid excuses made by umar akmal ! He knows a couple of things about throwing away dont he ! And yea he aint a better player than shafiq too !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[salman24]

Meh, wasting time on stats, that too from "plz plz plz select razzaq he is the bestest ever'

Back on point, Asad shafiq is Pakistan's best young batsman. What's the problem.

Abdul Razzaq is a match winner and has proven it in ODIs. Shafiq is the opposite and a useless ODI batsman. Stats don't lie. You and other Shafiq fan boys can make up stats to make him look good. However, everyone has access to cricinfo and can see the actual stats that shows his incompetence. I don't make up stats saying so and so averages 50+ lol. That's pathetic. Speak about the topic at hand.

The fact of the matter is that "mr. man of crisis" is holding back much more deserving players like Fawad Alam, Umar Akmal etc who actually have ODI and other performances to back them up.

 

[Pete Rose]

Abdul Razzaq is a match winner and has proven it in ODIs. Shafiq is the opposite and a useless ODI batsman. Stats don't lie. You and other Shafiq fan boys can make up stats to make him look good. However, everyone has access to cricinfo and can see the actual stats that shows his incompetence. I don't make up stats saying so and so averages 50+ lol. That's pathetic. Speak about the topic at hand.

The fact of the matter is that "mr. man of crisis" is holding back much more deserving players like Fawad Alam, Umar Akmal etc who actually have ODI and other performances to back them up.

Two parts:
I won't even bother to rebut the laughable claim that he is a match winner : only in your universe
On Asad shafiq: I don't really need stats, I can see the game: far better than junior at the moment

 

[salman24]

Two parts:
I won't even bother to rebut the laughable claim that he is a match winner : only in your universe
On Asad shafiq: I don't really need stats, I can see the game: far better than junior at the moment

Yeah his average of 26 and strike rate of 69 in nearly 50 ODI innings is better than Junior's average of almost 37 and strike rate of 87. Not to mention "man of crisis" doesn't have a single century.

He might be "far better only in your universe." You're the one who sounds hilarious right now.
You're probably the kind of guy who gets impressed by anyone that can play a cover drive with proper technique.

Results matter.

 

[JibranAnsari]

In test he is fine as long as we don't get a better number 6.

In ODIs he is mediocre at the moment and I don't think he has the game for modern day ODi cricket , scoring a fifty at sub 70 SR wont help our batting at all.

 

[JibranAnsari]

It is laughable how people are calling him our best batsman in the last WC base on one innings against the mighty zimbabweans , forgetting his awful struggle of an innings of 46 in 81 balls against australia.

 

[Bullet Drive]

It is laughable how people are calling him our best batsman in the last WC base on one innings against the mighty zimbabweans , forgetting his awful struggle of an innings of 46 in 81 balls against australia.

That was a good knock.

 

[Mamoon]

It is laughable how people are calling him our best batsman in the last WC base on one innings against the mighty zimbabweans , forgetting his awful struggle of an innings of 46 in 81 balls against australia.

Actually that 46 along with Umar's cameo in that game were our best knocks in the World Cup and the best partnership by a mile.

If Asad and Umar would have batted together in Mohali without Younis and Misbah clogging the middle overs, the result could have been very different.

Asad made a very positive impact on the team in the World Cup.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Actually that 46 along with Umar's cameo in that game were our best knocks in the World Cup and the best partnership by a mile.

If Asad and Umar would have batted together in Mohali without Younis and Misbah clogging the middle overs, the result could have been very different.

Asad made a very positive impact on the team in the World Cup.

I remember how these two threw away their wickets on absolutely straight deliveries.

Pakistan needed 128 of 26 overs when asad got out.

pakistan needed 90 off 101 deliveries when umar got out.

There was no pressure at all.

 

[Arsal_AK]

It is laughable how people are calling him our best batsman in the last WC base on one innings against the mighty zimbabweans , forgetting his awful struggle of an innings of 46 in 81 balls against australia.

That was one of the best knocks by a Pakistani at that WC, if not the best.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah his average of 26 and strike rate of 69 in nearly 50 ODI innings is better than Junior's average of almost 37 and strike rate of 87. Not to mention "man of crisis" doesn't have a single century.

He might be "far better only in your universe." You're the one who sounds hilarious right now.
You're probably the kind of guy who gets impressed by anyone that can play a cover drive with proper technique.

Results matter.

For all his faults, Umar Akmal is a must for our ODI team and is the most dynamic batsman in the country. In this era, batsmen like him are a must. Yes he has plenty of issues, but he's still better than pretty much everyone.

One of the biggest failure of Misbah's tenure has been not allowing Shafiq to settle at 3. If you check his record at 3, its miles better than his performance at 4/5/6 or even as an opener. He has been shoved up and down the order as well as in and out of the team thanks to our obsession with playing the failure Younis in ODIs.

Shafiq is a very solid batsman with a sound attacking game - watch his innings in Leeds in 2010 and he's a completely different player. The problem with him was he became a mini tuk tuk in Tests which affected him in ODIs as well. For perspective and matter of interest, he averages 50+ in LA with an average of 80+ excluding ODIs.

Not making excuses here, but the management really messed up with him badly. If he gets a decent 10-15 match run at 3 in ODIs, I'm sure he will deliver. Has a good backfoot game and a strong bottom hand with an excellent cover drive.

In Tests, he has shown signs of improving his strike rate as well and is looking more like the 2010-2011 Shafiq now which is good.

 

[JibranAnsari]

That was one of the best knocks by a Pakistani at that WC, if not the best.

oh yah, that was on a minefield

 

[Mamoon]

I remember how these two threw away their wickets on absolutely straight deliveries.

Pakistan needed 128 of 26 overs when asad got out.

pakistan needed 90 off 101 deliveries when umar got out.

There was no pressure at all.

Difficult pitch, Lee, Tait and MJ all bowling 90+ with openers falling cheaply and Misbah getting a golden duck. Younis showed some resistence but Asad absorbed pressure brilliantly and held the innings together and combined with Umar for an excellent partnership.

You can nitpick and say that threw their wickets away, but we were not winning the game without their partnership no matter what equation (runs, balls) you bring up.

Pakistan's self-destruction mode was on and firing on all cylinders.

 

[Mamoon]

oh yah, that was on a minefield

It was a two paced pitch and all batsmen struggled to play fluently, even the Australians.

 

[Pete Rose]

L

Yeah his average of 26 and strike rate of 69 in nearly 50 ODI innings is better than Junior's average of almost 37 and strike rate of 87. Not to mention "man of crisis" doesn't have a single century.

He might be "far better only in your universe." You're the one who sounds hilarious right now.
You're probably the kind of guy who gets impressed by anyone that can play a cover drive with proper technique.

Results matter.

Yes indeed, they do.
Which basically means razzaq with his his rubbish bowling and batting averages should be nowhere the team, I suppose? but sure you may cling to Razzaqs YouTube vidoes
By the time you figure out that stats change over time, I am afraid the world will have moved on: "what was Asad shafiq's average and strike when he played 50 games vs juniors at 100 games" If that's the best compelling case you have, then I am afraid you are, well, 'inadequate'

 

[salman24]

L
Yes indeed, they do.
Which basically means razzaq with his his rubbish bowling and batting averages should be nowhere the team, I suppose? but sure you may cling to Razzaqs YouTube vidoes
By the time you figure out that stats change over time, I am afraid the world will have moved on: "what was Asad shafiq's average and strike when he played 50 games vs juniors at 100 games" If that's the best compelling case you have, then I am afraid you are, well, 'inadequate'

You really are a troll hahahahah. I don't even know if I should respond.
You keep on mentioning Abdul Razzaq when no one mentioned him in this thread. But anyway even his "rubbish batting average" is higher than Shafiq's and so is his strike rate. He is one of Pakistan's best ODI allrounders ever and no one can deny that.

Moving on, Umar's stats were a lot better than Shafiq even when he had played 50 matches and have remained pretty consistent throughout. So, that rubbishes that dumb argument of yours. If you're telling me that he will have better stats than Umar by the time he plays a 100 matches then keep living in that dream world. Not sure how good your mathematical ability is but he will have to one of the best batsmen in the world (will have to average above 47 for sure while he hasn't averaged over 40 in any format) to jump up that much in 50 matches fyi. Let's not even mention the fact that he will have to play at a much higher strike rate than he does now.

And you say I am inadequate? Okay, not sure what that means or has to do with anything. Continue rambling troll haha

 

[Pete Rose]

You really are a troll hahahahah. I don't even know if I should respond.
You keep on mentioning Abdul Razzaq when no one mentioned him in this thread. But anyway even his "rubbish batting average" is higher than Shafiq's and so is his strike rate. He is one of Pakistan's best ODI allrounders ever and no one can deny that.

Moving on, Umar's stats were a lot better than Shafiq even when he had played 50 matches and have remained pretty consistent throughout. So, that rubbishes that dumb argument of yours. If you're telling me that he will have better stats than Umar by the time he plays a 100 matches then keep living in that dream world. Not sure how good your mathematical ability is but he will have to one of the best batsmen in the world (will have to average above 47 for sure while he hasn't averaged over 40 in any format) to jump up that much in 50 matches fyi. Let's not even mention the fact that he will have to play at a much higher strike rate than he does now.

And you say I am inadequate? Okay, not sure what that means or has to do with anything. Continue rambling troll haha

Too many laughs indicate a lack of confidence. Inadequacy continues to be confirmed.
But yes, I do think shafiq will do well in odi's going forth.
I leave the sky is blue and grass is green type analysis to past stats readers.
No smiley, or laugh track required, you see?

 

[salman24]

Too many laughs indicate a lack of confidence. Inadequacy continues to be confirmed.
But yes, I do think shafiq will do well in odi's going forth.
I leave the sky is blue and grass is green type analysis to past stats readers.
No smiley, or laugh track required, you see?

Just to add salt to your wound, I ran a filter on cricinfo for you. Umar averaged 39.08 in his first 50 matches (oh I'm sorry would you like me to see how much he averaged in 49 matches to make it fair for Shafiq?). No laugh track required. You just got owned. Thanks for your time.

 

[Pete Rose]

Just to add salt to your wound, I ran a filter on cricinfo for you. Umar averaged 39.08 in his first 50 matches (oh I'm sorry would you like me to see how much he averaged in 49 matches to make it fair for Shafiq?). No laugh track required. You just got owned. Thanks for your time.

My simple friend, past analysis is just that, it's the past. We are talking future. But sure someone has to do the donkey work while we try to predict the future.

 

[salman24]

My simple friend, past analysis is just that, it's the past. We are talking future. But sure someone has to do the donkey work while we try to predict the future.

I would just walk away from this thread. Every post you make shows that you have nothing of substance to say. Sadly, it just makes you look stupider and I'm sure most of PP would agree as evidenced by Bullet Drive's post above. Insult me all you want, that's all you can do. You obviously have nothing intelligent to say.

 

[Pete Rose]

I would just walk away from this thread. Every post you make shows that you have nothing of substance to say. Sadly, it just makes you look stupider and I'm sure most of PP would agree as evidenced by Bullet Drive's post above. Insult me all you want, that's all you can do. You obviously have nothing intelligent to say.

Ah yes, compelling stuff.
Read the thread slowly and try not to let your ego get in the way: you are stuck on a stats based argument that I have no interest in. And that leads you to generate the drivel above. Poor form.

 

[hussain.r97]

It is laughable how people are calling him our best batsman in the last WC base on one innings against the mighty zimbabweans , forgetting his awful struggle of an innings of 46 in 81 balls against australia.

That was not an awful innings. It was a great innings, and there was no way we would have won without it. It was a very difficult pitch, even the Aussies struggled. The entire Pakistan lineup collapsed all around Shafiq while he held his nerve in a very low scoring game.

 

[hussain.r97]

I really hate how most of the people on this forum base all their arguments on plain stats. You can clearly see Shafiq is a brilliant prospect, and is currently better than Akmal junior, a stats based argument is completely irrelevant for him. I don't see any posters bashing someone like Rahane for his stats

 

[Bullet Drive]

I really hate how most of the people on this forum base all their arguments on plain stats. You can clearly see Shafiq is a brilliant prospect, and is currently better than Akmal junior, a stats based argument is completely irrelevant for him. I don't see any posters bashing someone like Rahane for his stats

Shafiq is not as good as Akmal.

 

[hussain.r97]

For all his faults, Umar Akmal is a must for our ODI team and is the most dynamic batsman in the country. In this era, batsmen like him are a must. Yes he has plenty of issues, but he's still better than pretty much everyone.

One of the biggest failure of Misbah's tenure has been not allowing Shafiq to settle at 3. If you check his record at 3, its miles better than his performance at 4/5/6 or even as an opener. He has been shoved up and down the order as well as in and out of the team thanks to our obsession with playing the failure Younis in ODIs.

Shafiq is a very solid batsman with a sound attacking game - watch his innings in Leeds in 2010 and he's a completely different player. The problem with him was he became a mini tuk tuk in Tests which affected him in ODIs as well. For perspective and matter of interest, he averages 50+ in LA with an average of 80+ excluding ODIs.

Not making excuses here, but the management really messed up with him badly. If he gets a decent 10-15 match run at 3 in ODIs, I'm sure he will deliver. Has a good backfoot game and a strong bottom hand with an excellent cover drive.

In Tests, he has shown signs of improving his strike rate as well and is looking more like the 2010-2011 Shafiq now which is good.

+1

People fail to understand the reason behind his ODI record. Messing up so badly with a player who's got a solid technique, good temperament, and good attacking/defensive game is a crime. I'm quite certain he'll deliver if he's given a good run at the #3 spot, but he won't be because Younis 'experienced' Khan is probably back.

 

[hussain.r97]

Shafiq is not as good as Akmal.

Adding in all factors (i.e. Brain, ability to build an innings, temperament) he is. If you go by pure talent, than Umar Akmal is better of course.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

I really hate how most of the people on this forum base all their arguments on plain stats. You can clearly see Shafiq is a brilliant prospect, and is currently better than Akmal junior, a stats based argument is completely irrelevant for him. I don't see any posters bashing someone like Rahane for his stats

Rahane bats better than Shafiq and his domestic stats are also super impressive (average of 70 when he debuted). Rahane has been shifted up and down the order yet hasn't complained nor has asked to bat at a specific position. Rahane has played 42 matches as opposed to Shafiq's 49 matches yet has scored 2 hundreds whereas Shafiq has none.

I want the best for Pakistan cricket and there are far better options than Shafiq in LOI, he is not fit for the modern game and if it means costing us another tournament to realise this then so be it. I don't have much hope for Pakistan in the world cup especially after the Champions Trophy debacle. It was bewildering how we didn't try any new players for the Zimbabwe series and were almost white washed.

Going into the world cup with a line up consisting of Hafeez, Shafiq, Younis, Misbah, Afridi and Gul is just plain asking for trouble. Any score chasing above 240 and we may as well forfeit (didn't take the initiative to chase 260 against NZ in 90 overs). And when setting a score, be ready for the customary "our bowling attack is good enough to defend 250" which results in a tuk tuk/bat out 50 overs approach.

 

[hussain.r97]

Rahane bats better than Shafiq and his domestic stats are also super impressive (average of 70 when he debuted). Rahane has been shifted up and down the order yet hasn't complained nor has asked to bat at a specific position. Rahane has played 42 matches as opposed to Shafiq's 49 matches yet has scored 2 hundreds whereas Shafiq has none.

I want the best for Pakistan cricket and there are far better options than Shafiq in LOI, he is not fit for the modern game and if it means costing us another tournament to realise this then so be it. I don't have much hope for Pakistan in the world cup especially after the Champions Trophy debacle. It was bewildering how we didn't try any new players for the Zimbabwe series and were almost white washed.

Going into the world cup with a line up consisting of Hafeez, Shafiq, Younis, Misbah, Afridi and Gul is just plain asking for trouble. Any score chasing above 240 and we may as well forfeit (didn't take the initiative to chase 260 against NZ in 90 overs). And when setting a score, be ready for the customary "our bowling attack is good enough to defend 250" which results in a tuk tuk/bat out 50 overs approach.

Rahane has batted in the top order for most of his ODI career, he hasn't been put up and down a whole lot. Shafiq has literally batted at a different position every game he played in the past 4 years. Shafiq also has solid domestic stats, a List A average of 54 whilst striking at almost 90 is no joke and also highlights the fact he hasn't been managed properly at international level.

Furthermore, his FC average is misleading because he's only played 3 seasons of FC cricket, he topped the run chart in his last season, was in the top 10 in his first. His second season didn't go so well, which is why is FC average got dragged down. Looking at plain stats is no good, you have to watch the game, and look at the stats in more depth too.

There is no way we have a better #3 batsman than Shafiq at the moment. Tell me your choices for #3. YK? Misbah? Umar Akmal? Maqsood? Hafeez?

I'm sorry, but none of them fit the bill as a number 3 batsman.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Rahane has batted in the top order for most of his ODI career, he hasn't been put up and down a whole lot. Shafiq has literally batted at a different position every game he played in the past 4 years. Shafiq also has solid domestic stats, a List A average of 54 whilst striking at almost 90 is no joke and also highlights the fact he hasn't been managed properly at international level.

Furthermore, his FC average is misleading because he's only played 3 seasons of FC cricket, he topped the run chart in his last season, was in the top 10 in his first. His second season didn't go so well, which is why is FC average got dragged down. Looking at plain stats is no good, you have to watch the game, and look at the stats in more depth too.

There is no way we have a better #3 batsman than Shafiq at the moment. Tell me your choices for #3. YK? Misbah? Umar Akmal? Maqsood? Hafeez?

I'm sorry, but none of them fit the bill as a number 3 batsman.

I can name an immediate replacement and that's Fawad Alam. If not then Maqsood, Babar Azam, Umar Akmal and Haris Sohail (as I mentioned earlier).

You are going around in circles so if you are going to go with the same argument as before then please just scroll up for my response.

 

[hussain.r97]

Babar can bat anywhere in the lineup.
Haris Sohail can bat in the top order easily.
Umar Akmal does have tempermental issues but still is 1 of our best LOI players and is eulogised by cricket experts across the globe.
And LOL Fawad found out? Someone that was averaging 49 and is now averaging 45 has been found out? But someone that averages 26 at a strike rate of 69 after 50 ODIs has not been found out and will come good?

I think this debate is over, you can wish him well all he likes but if he is selected in the world cup I guarantee you he will flop big time. We will see, mark my words.

Anyone who watched Fawad against Australia and thinks he hasn't been found out is extremely delusional. After that series, every team would have watched footage of hat happened, and would apply the same tactics. All you have to do is bring everyone in, keep one man deep in his hitting zone (midwicket), an eventually he'll dig himself into a hole and get himself out. He has no power game to release pressure, he relies solely on strike rotation. It goes to show the difference between Sri Lankan and Aussie captaincy/analysis.

 

[hussain.r97]

I can name an immediate replacement and that's Fawad Alam. If not then Maqsood, Babar Azam, Umar Akmal and Haris Sohail (as I mentioned earlier).

You are going around in circles so if you are going to go with the same argument as before then please just scroll up for my response.

Fawad Alam can't bat at 3. He's too one dimensional, and has been found out (see above). Fawad doesn't even warrant a spot in the ODI side. He's also weak against good pace bowling. Maqsood and Umar Akmal are not #3 batsman. Umar Akmal can't even build an innings properly, how can you expect him to play a #3 role? Haris Sohail is more of a #4/5 batsman, and there must be a solid reason for that.

Yes, Babar Azam can bat at #3, but introducing a brand new #3 to the international scene a series before the world cup isn't a good idea, for all we know, he could take ages to settle at this level.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Anyone who watched Fawad against Australia and thinks he hasn't been found out is extremely delusional. After that series, every team would have watched footage of hat happened, and would apply the same tactics. All you have to do is bring everyone in, keep one man deep in his hitting zone (midwicket), an eventually he'll dig himself into a hole and get himself out. He has no power game to release pressure, he relies solely on strike rotation. It goes to show the difference between Sri Lankan and Aussie captaincy/analysis.

He has more power than midget Shafiq, funny thing is even though Shafiq has played almost twice as many matches, Fawad has hit more sixes ) )

And for the record, 1 dismissal was illegal as the rule about the fielder moving was only in draft phase and not available to anyone. Also you state Shafiq has failed because he hasn't batted at 3, yet where was Fawad batting at in that ODI series? Yeah that's right, at like 5/6.

1 bad series and knives are out for Fawad who was batting out of place and was given out illegally. Yet he achieved more in the Asia Cup tournament than Shafiq ever has in his career ) )

Fawad has had 1 bad series, but when has Shafiq ever had a good series?

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Fawad Alam can't bat at 3. He's too one dimensional, and has been found out (see above). Fawad doesn't even warrant a spot in the ODI side. He's also weak against good pace bowling. Maqsood and Umar Akmal are not #3 batsman. Umar Akmal can't even build an innings properly, how can you expect him to play a #3 role? Haris Sohail is more of a #4/5 batsman, and there must be a solid reason for that.

Yes, Babar Azam can bat at #3, but introducing a brand new #3 to the international scene a series before the world cup isn't a good idea, for all we know, he could take ages to settle at this level.

I'd rather go with someone untested like Babar who is likely to be dynamite, as opposed to someone who WILL be a dud.

And for someone like Umar Akmal who can't build innings properly and has been mistreated more than Shafiq and has never batted at 3 to my knowledge, he has scored more runs at a faster rate at a lot higher average. And sorry what basis are you saying that Maqsood is not a number 3? Someone clearly didn't see his debut against SA and saw his 2 aggressive back to back 50's at number 3!

And in my opinion there is not much difference between 3/4 because in most cases a dud player like Shafiq can't take the initiative at 3 and gets out cheaply, number 4 batsmen effectively becomes number 3.

 

[hussain.r97]

He has more power than midget Shafiq, funny thing is even though Shafiq has played almost twice as many matches, Fawad has hit more sixes ) )

And for the record, 1 dismissal was illegal as the rule about the fielder moving was only in draft phase and not available to anyone. Also you state Shafiq has failed because he hasn't batted at 3, yet where was Fawad batting at in that ODI series? Yeah that's right, at like 5/6.

1 bad series and knives are out for Fawad who was batting out of place and was given out illegally. Yet he achieved more in the Asia Cup tournament than Shafiq ever has in his career ) )

Fawad has had 1 bad series, but when has Shafiq ever had a good series?

Did you even watch Fawad in the Australia series. I'm sorry, whatever position he plays at, Australia would apply the same tactics. He would choke all the same, even if he was batting at his preferred #4 spot.

That dismissal was not illegal, and it was made quite clear after the game. I even went to read ICC's rules of cricket, it was perfectly legal. He was forced into playing that shot because Australia put him under intense pressure with their field setting.

Asad started his career decently, had a good World Cup where he won us 2 out of the 3 games he featured in. The 3rd game, he was one of the only players who looked composed. He also had a good tour of the West Indies in 2011.

I'll let you go live in your world where Fawad is more powerful than someone

 

[hussain.r97]

I'd rather go with someone untested like Babar who is likely to be dynamite, as opposed to someone who WILL be a dud.

And for someone like Umar Akmal who can't build innings properly and has been mistreated more than Shafiq and has never batted at 3 to my knowledge, he has scored more runs at a faster rate at a lot higher average. And sorry what basis are you saying that Maqsood is not a number 3? Someone clearly didn't see his debut against SA and saw his 2 aggressive back to back 50's at number 3!

And in my opinion there is not much difference between 3/4 because in most cases a dud player like Shafiq can't take the initiative at 3 and gets out cheaply, number 4 batsmen effectively becomes number 3.

Shafiq is a good #3 bat. Oh but who am I arguing with. I'm arguing with someone who says Fawad has more power than someone else )

 

[Pete Rose]

I really hate how most of the people on this forum base all their arguments on plain stats. You can clearly see Shafiq is a brilliant prospect, and is currently better than Akmal junior, a stats based argument is completely irrelevant for him. I don't see any posters bashing someone like Rahane for his stats

Shafiq by any measure is a better batsman than Akmal.
Junior is falling and fading fast, but can turn it around.
The evidence so far indicates Shafiq will continue to grow and junior will have peaks and lows
The reason why the Shafiq comparison hurts is because you ony to go back a year or so to see the hype for junior - no fault of his own, but more fans who are either groupies or frankly just don't understand the game

 

[Pete Rose]

Anyone who watched Fawad against Australia and thinks he hasn't been found out is extremely delusional. After that series, every team would have watched footage of hat happened, and would apply the same tactics. All you have to do is bring everyone in, keep one man deep in his hitting zone (midwicket), an eventually he'll dig himself into a hole and get himself out. He has no power game to release pressure, he relies solely on strike rotation. It goes to show the difference between Sri Lankan and Aussie captaincy/analysis.

Fawad alam is not going to the World CuP. As you point out, the oz series tells you whats wrong with his game

 

[steelo green]

Shafiq by any measure is a better batsman than Akmal.
Junior is falling and fading fast, but can turn it around.
The evidence so far indicates Shafiq will continue to grow and junior will have peaks and lows
The reason why the Shafiq comparison hurts is because you ony to go back a year or so to see the hype for junior - no fault of his own, but more fans who are either groupies or frankly just don't understand the game

This is a load of nonsense. You use an argument one way and ignore it the other way. Shafiq has played a couple decent ODIs and it's turning it around. In tests he's as inconsistent as ever. Most overrated player I've ever seen.

 

[Mamoon]

This is a load of nonsense. You use an argument one way and ignore it the other way. Shafiq has played a couple decent ODIs and it's turning it around. In tests he's as inconsistent as ever. Most overrated player I've ever seen.

I think he is not rated enough to be considered as the most overrated player. Many think he's rubbish, many think he's decent while a few others including me think that he become an excellent player.

However that does not mean that all the excuses are valid. A few points:

He's a slow learner

He hasn't progressed at the rate he should have

He has concentration issues

He has been mishandled in ODIs

Definitely not a more vital ODI batsman who is pure, modern day LOI product

I was disappointed with his effort in the 1st innings of the 2nd Test and it was the moment where we lost the initiative.

 

[fahadshah]

Two parts:
I won't even bother to rebut the laughable claim that he is a match winner : only in your universe
On Asad shafiq: I don't really need stats, I can see the game: far better than junior at the moment

Junior is not even close to man of crisis ! A man of crisis has proven himself in test format which is the true format of the game ! Dont listen to akmal fan boys they are used to see 5 shots for 20 runs and then discuss his batting on this whole forum with the SR and average.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wristy_Shuffler]

Shafiq is a true batsman, one of the few Pakistan domestic cricket has produced in recent years. I'm not a fan of moving Azhar to open in Tests but if it does happen, I'd want Shafiq to bat at three. He is ready for a move up the order but it will probably happen once either Younus or Misbah call it a day.

 

[Pete Rose]

This is a load of nonsense. You use an argument one way and ignore it the other way. Shafiq has played a couple decent ODIs and it's turning it around. In tests he's as inconsistent as ever. Most overrated player I've ever seen.

I have no rebuttal to this, because it is a commentary on my thought process, which I agree with.
But usually on PP I try to make predictions on what comes next: and its not the blind teary-eyed stuff from indignant fans sobbing "you will see he will come good, sniff sniff" and then they wait for that one match in the year where their favorite player delivers and then show up embarrassing themselves by self-congratulations about their eye to spot talent.

For me its more interesting to make short term predictions, based on current form, based on what I think I see in how the player is performing..and comparing to other past players that I have seen. There is a rich and very valid science that says you should not ignore past data. I dont ignore it, I just dont want to be shackled by it. Besides looking at past data is safe, where is the fun in that.
...about what will happen in the next 6 months, or a year. If I am wrong, and if people care enough, they will call out my 'predictions'

In my time on PP I have stuck my neck out (that I recall, and we all remember our victories more than our defeats) on the following:
- fawad alam is useless against decent opposition and will not make the world cup squad (if he does he will fail, against quality opposition)
- Asad Shafiq will go strength to strength in tests and odi's: why do I say that, because I think the momentum and confidence is with him
- Shoaib Malik needs to fit in to Pakistan's middle order if they want to be successful at ODI chases
- Bilawal Bhatti needs to be persevered with: could be a key player at the world cup
- hafeez will be the footnote he deserves to be after the worldcup
- I have rated rahat ali since his debut and i think he is special
- junior might find redemption as an opener in odi's
- Ahmed Shehzad will find life difficult in ENG, Aus, NZ

Some of the above is coming true, some of it will not. But thats the fun of predictions. Looking at the past is valuable, but not fun.

 

[Bullet Drive]

I have no rebuttal to this, because it is a commentary on my thought process, which I agree with.
But usually on PP I try to make predictions on what comes next: and its not the blind teary-eyed stuff from indignant fans sobbing "you will see he will come good, sniff sniff" and then they wait for that one match in the year where their favorite player delivers and then show up embarrassing themselves by self-congratulations about their eye to spot talent.

For me its more interesting to make short term predictions, based on current form, based on what I think I see in how the player is performing..and comparing to other past players that I have seen. There is a rich and very valid science that says you should not ignore past data. I dont ignore it, I just dont want to be shackled by it. Besides looking at past data is safe, where is the fun in that.
...about what will happen in the next 6 months, or a year. If I am wrong, and if people care enough, they will call out my 'predictions'

In my time on PP I have stuck my neck out (that I recall, and we all remember our victories more than our defeats) on the following:
- fawad alam is useless against decent opposition and will not make the world cup squad (if he does he will fail, against quality opposition)
- Asad Shafiq will go strength to strength in tests and odi's: why do I say that, because I think the momentum and confidence is with him
- Shoaib Malik needs to fit in to Pakistan's middle order if they want to be successful at ODI chases
- Bilawal Bhatti needs to be persevered with: could be a key player at the world cup
- hafeez will be the footnote he deserves to be after the worldcup
- I have rated rahat ali since his debut and i think he is special
- junior might find redemption as an opener in odi's
- Ahmed Shehzad will find life difficult in ENG, Aus, NZ

Some of the above is coming true, some of it will not. But thats the fun of predictions. Looking at the past is valuable, but not fun.

Agree with all apart from these bolded points.

Fawad is a good batsman. He will make it.

Shafiq is a poor ODI batsman.

Shehzad has a ton in NZ already. Prefers bouncy pitches.

 

[Pete Rose]

Agree with all apart from these bolded points.

Fawad is a good batsman. He will make it.

Shafiq is a poor ODI batsman.

Shehzad has a ton in NZ already. Prefers bouncy pitches.

Well, let's see how they go. Fawad and Asad went in opposite and predictable ways when played Australia: fawad floundered and Shafiq reposed some faith on come back.
Ahmed Shezad will have problems with seam/swing perhaps not bounce: the tons in SA and nz have come in odi's: pitches are better vs tests. Not discounting Shehzad (vs Hafeez who is completely useless in these conditions) just saying he will have a tough time. Who knows maybe playing like Misbah (as he does now) might save him

 

[steelo green]

I have no rebuttal to this, because it is a commentary on my thought process, which I agree with.
But usually on PP I try to make predictions on what comes next: and its not the blind teary-eyed stuff from indignant fans sobbing "you will see he will come good, sniff sniff" and then they wait for that one match in the year where their favorite player delivers and then show up embarrassing themselves by self-congratulations about their eye to spot talent.

For me its more interesting to make short term predictions, based on current form, based on what I think I see in how the player is performing..and comparing to other past players that I have seen. There is a rich and very valid science that says you should not ignore past data. I dont ignore it, I just dont want to be shackled by it. Besides looking at past data is safe, where is the fun in that.
...about what will happen in the next 6 months, or a year. If I am wrong, and if people care enough, they will call out my 'predictions'

In my time on PP I have stuck my neck out (that I recall, and we all remember our victories more than our defeats) on the following:
- fawad alam is useless against decent opposition and will not make the world cup squad (if he does he will fail, against quality opposition)
- Asad Shafiq will go strength to strength in tests and odi's: why do I say that, because I think the momentum and confidence is with him
- Shoaib Malik needs to fit in to Pakistan's middle order if they want to be successful at ODI chases
- Bilawal Bhatti needs to be persevered with: could be a key player at the world cup
- hafeez will be the footnote he deserves to be after the worldcup
- I have rated rahat ali since his debut and i think he is special
- junior might find redemption as an opener in odi's
- Ahmed Shehzad will find life difficult in ENG, Aus, NZ

Some of the above is coming true, some of it will not. But thats the fun of predictions. Looking at the past is valuable, but not fun.

Fun? I don't care about fun. I care about realism. If you want fun go joins fantasy league not talk actual cricket.

I stated the objective truth about Shafiq based on his performance.

I don't sit and make predictions based on thin air as you are alluding to.

 

[Pete Rose]

Fun? I don't care about fun. I care about realism. If you want fun go joins fantasy league not talk actual cricket.

I stated the objective truth about Shafiq based on his performance.

I don't sit and make predictions based on thin air as you are alluding to.

Neither is it a forum to look at past stats. The forum is full of people with opinions: some hope, some predict, and some unable to see beyond averages.
If it helps as a refesher: we started the fawad alam failure prediction against Australia in a rather embarassing thread about 'why is fawad difficult to dismiss' a century against Sri lanka had people getting drunk on kool aid.
I called it then on both Asad and fawad and I did not need any realism for it

 

[JibranAnsari]

Fawad has a ton to his name , has a better sr and is more consistent.

ugly or not , he can score. An ugly batsman anyday over a technical genius who barely averages 26 in odis.

 

[steelo green]

Neither is it a forum to look at past stats. The forum is full of people with opinions: some hope, some predict, and some unable to see beyond averages.
If it helps as a refesher: we started the fawad alam failure prediction against Australia in a rather embarassing thread about 'why is fawad difficult to dismiss' a century against Sri lanka had people getting drunk on kool aid.
I called it then on both Asad and fawad and I did not need any realism for it

Big problem is you are basing Fawad on 3 matches and Asad on the same. Again Fawad has scored in Australia so I won't read into 2-3 matches one way or the other.

I'm not calling for either to be dropped, as you are with Fawad, I'm saying the realities of Shafiq and his weaknesses and we need to severely temper our expectations because he is yet to find an ounce of consistency, especially in the LOI formats. It's calling a spade a spade. Talent is there, production is the question.

Let's see how he does against NZ now.

I'm a Pakistan fan as are you, so I look at what makes us win as do you. You think Fawad is a detriment, I disagree. He has plenty of flaws but even through those he produces with his weaknesses and given our batting woes, he is not exactly putting up no numbers at all.

I know you're not a poor poster, but as we all do (myself with UA) we have rose coloured glasses and at times give excuses for X player because we have a slight bias towards them. The talent isn't the question, the production and mental aspect is what is. At 28-29, still having brain farts and playing silly shots isn't something that leads one to believe he will find consistent footing. He's been mishandled, but almost all our players have in some instances, that does not diminish the fact that he himself is to blame for a lot of errors.

Here are examples:

Imran Tahir to Asad Shafiq, OUT, Tahir strikes again! Pitched up a legspinner outside off, Shafiq drives it softly straight to du Plessis at cover for an easy peasy catch
Asad Shafiq c du Plessis b Imran Tahir 11 (40m 28b 1x4 0x6) SR: 39.2

That was at # 5

Tsotsobe to Asad Shafiq, OUT, and his stay at the crease is very brief. Tsotsobe has been getting a bit of extra bounce in his first spell as well and this time the leading edge lobs up in the air and the short midwicket fielder runs around to take a good, diving catch
Asad Shafiq c Morkel b Tsotsobe 1 (2m 2b 0x4 0x6) SR: 50.00

That was at #4

Tsotsobe to Asad Shafiq, OUT, loud sound as the ball passes bat on the forward push and Shafiq has to walk back, normal left-arm seamer's line from Tsotsobe, angled across the right-hander close to off stump, generating some extra bounce, Shafiq unable to get behind the line and feathers it through to the keeper
Asad Shafiq c †de Kock b Tsotsobe 1 (10m 5b 0x4 0x6) SR: 20.00

That was at #3

Johnson to Asad Shafiq, OUT, the short ball barrage after spin has worked, there is a clear sound as Shafiq shuffles and tries to play this bouncer down the leg side, and Haddin goes up immediately, was too quick for Shafiq, brushed the glove on the way to keeper
Asad Shafiq c †Haddin b Johnson 13 (54m 28b 1x4 0x6) SR: 46.42

At #3

Lyon to Asad Shafiq, OUT, can't clear the field this time, gives an easy catch to mid-off! He charged down the track again to clear mid-off but gave an easy catch to Johnson at the edge of the circle
Asad Shafiq c Johnson b Lyon 29 (63m 35b 2x4 1x6) SR: 82.85

#3

And finally his one half decent, not good, look at that SR and at what stage he left the match, innings.

Faulkner to Asad Shafiq, OUT, angled in from wide of the crease, Shafiq was stuck on the crease, and the break has given Australia a breakthrough! Shafiq checks with Amin whether he should review, and Amin says no, and you can see why he said that. It struck him below the knee-roll, on the crease, in front of middle stump.
Asad Shafiq lbw b Faulkner 50 (97m 73b 5x4 0x6) SR: 68.49

I saw all these deliveries as did you and given his talent, none of them should really have been wickets. His mental capacity is still lacking.

I listed the last 3 ODIs and the previous 3 even though it was a year ago to see if things have changed, and more the most part it is nothing new. He still has soft dismissals, he gets out at the wrong times in matches, his shot selection is questionable, his consistency just isn't there.

I'm not trying to pick on him, I could pick on plenty and I do, you want me to give an analysis of Umar, I will give you one, but doesn't mean I will ignore Shafiq. By no means is anything so far indicative of what type of player he could be. People keep assuming we go along with talent and talent will eventually pay off, but even against Australia, it wasn't a special innings anywhere and even when he looked half decent he just threw it away. He gets a bit ahead of himself from what I have seen.

I don't know how you can argue against anything I have said with anything except that Shafiq is talented and we should persist with talent simply because. Talent is one thing, and mental ability, which is half the game of cricket is another. If Shafiq is a 8-9 out of 10 in terms of technique and talent, then he is a 3-4 on the mental side of the game, making him a mediocre 5-6 out of ten level of batsmen. We can't just ignore these things. It has been prevalent in tests as well, which is why he is a sub 40 middle order batsmen.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

^^^^^

POTW

 

[Pete Rose]

I don't know how you can argue against anything I have said with anything except that Shafiq is talented and we should persist with talent simply because. Talent is one thing, and mental ability, which is half the game of cricket is another. If Shafiq is a 8-9 out of 10 in terms of technique and talent, then he is a 3-4 on the mental side of the game, making him a mediocre 5-6 out of ten level of batsmen. We can't just ignore these things. It has been prevalent in tests as well, which is why he is a sub 40 middle order batsmen.

It comes down to last paragraph. I have seen enough of current form from both batsmen to make a prediction whereas you rightly caution that the a bigger sample size required.
I dont object to your assessment but "my rabbit out of the hat" analysis tell me shafiq will build on his encouraging ODI return vs. Australia and Fawad....will go down further.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

It comes down to last paragraph. I have seen enough of current form from both batsmen to make a prediction whereas you rightly caution that the a bigger sample size required.
I dont object to your assessment but "my rabbit out of the hat" analysis tell me shafiq will build on his encouraging ODI return vs. Australia and Fawad....will go down further.

Any half-decent batsman can increase an average of 26 (which Shafiq will struggle to).

And Fawad averaging 49 before the Australia series, you are right it is very difficult to maintain that. He will be a 40-45 batsman