[AUDIO/VIDEO] Sarfaraz Ahmed's derogatory comments to Andile Phehlukwayo...

[Ozymandiasza]

Lol no.

He is saying that Andile's mother was sitting somewhere, praying for him. This was said because phelukwayo was really lucky in his innings.

The troubling bit was the 'o kaalay' part. Casual racism.

The only offensive part of this is the start where he referred to him as "Hey black guy". The stuff about his mother is utterly harmless.

No, when he referred to his mother he meant maybe she's in the ground to give you prayers hence your luck.

He did not said anything derogatory about his mother. Sarfaraz referred to him as black man and the debate is whether its racist or not.

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

 

[Syed1]

This is such a bizarre comment I highly doubt Andile or most South Africans would understand what was meant. I certainly don't.

Is he calling Andile's mother a prostitute?

Hey black man, is your mother sitting here? What have you asked her to pray?



(Meaning is she sitting in the ground praying for you, thats why you are getting such luck)

 

[Ozymandiasza]

[MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION] I read on a site somewhere that calling a black person in SA as black is not considered racist.

Is that true?

Just to be clear, I'm not condoning it and think he should be punished. But I just want to know how the culture there re. this word.

Well, black is black, coloured is couloured, and white is white. These are facts, not feelings.

 

[BrooklynBrawler]

Haysman understood alright. Ramiz the idiot laughed it off.

That was an awkward laugh by Ramirez. He knew what was happening and tried to ignore

 

[BreadPakoda]

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

Yeah, but the connotation of the translated word he used is unfortunately negative in this part of the world. Which also reflects poorly on the sub-continent.

 

[BrooklynBrawler]

How are some of you saying this was not a racial comment? It doesn't matter what your intent is. He made a racist comment and should suffer the consequences.

 

[Big Mac]

Overreaction.

SA and Aus players have got away with much worse.

We should all set our personal bar a little bit higher than "Better than an Aussie or South African"

Spoiler

That's not racism, that's xenophobia. And it's in jest. So everyone shut up

 

[Ummii]

I hope he gets ban for some matches isi bahane rest milega

 

[Indiafan]

Is calling a black man, "Black Man" rascist?
That mom thing is G. Boycott level stuff...

no need to cry wolf.

Yes that is the exact definism of racism, reducing people to their skin color and dehumanizing them


According to your logic now instead of name every one should be called by skin color.

 

[Ummii]

could be career ending

lol

 

[Madplayer]

Guys please please don’t stick up for racists.

Dont think Sarfaraz was being openly racist. Maybe subconsciously he was. All he said was that this black man's mother was praying for him today.

But it will be seen as direct form of racism for sure because of the political climate.

 

[Sirris]

Other person's colour?

I'd say a racist or close minded people use it to belittle the other person as a whole and not just their skin color while asserting their own superiority.

There is no way you can go up to a stanger in Pakistan and say "abbey kaale can you help me find the tea shop". The other person will get offended and take it is an insult. Anybody who is pretending it's a neutral world is either lying or has no clue about the cultural context. Only if someone is close friends and you have a habit of joking around would such a world be taken with a laugh. The word is used in a negative sense 90% of the time when referring to another person.

People can twist things as they want but at the end of the day the word "nig*r" also just means black in Latin but it is the historical and cultural association with the world which makes it taboo.

More than Sarfraz getting his due punishment I hope this incident makes us reflect upon ourselves and cultural norms which need to be questioned.

 

[Big Mac]

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

Because it's dehumanising in a way that black people across the globe have been dehumanised for centuries purely because of the colour of their skin.

Certain words carry a great deal of baggage depending on context.

 

[Nov15]

Yes that is the exact definism of racism, reducing people to their skin color and dehumanizing them


According to your logic now instead of name every one should be called by skin color.

This!

 

[Hamza_]

Awful Comments.

Disgraceful as you are representing your country, Infact this won't be even acceptable in galli mohalla as he is referring to someone's mother.

 

[Pakpak]

Awful Comments.

Disgraceful as you are representing your country, Infact this won't be even acceptable in galli mohalla as he is referring to someone's mother.

He said nothing bad about his mother, we all know about your comprehension issues so you can be forgiven here I guess?

 

[Indiafan]

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

He is a human being and not a skin color. Reducing people to skin color is the definition of racism. Desis are very very racist but in a global world there is no excuse for ignorance. Racist are despised the world over

 

[Indiafan]

He said nothing bad about his mother, we all know about your comprehension issues so you can be forgiven here I guess?

I thought someone who did black.magic was bad and a witch?

 

[Syed1]

He said nothing bad about his mother, we all know about your comprehension issues so you can be forgiven here I guess?

All he said was is your mother in the ground praying for you.... that's not bad, considering how Kohli and others give curses related to mothers and sisters.


That racism part though..........

 

[cricketjoshila]

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

Black man is rough translation of Abbey Kaale. Its a slang way of referring to black skin colour.

 

[MMHS]

Who is PAK's deputy for this Series? PCB has burnt enough bridges - if CSAF makes a foul call here, I think PCB needs to play their card maturely.

 

[basitmian]

You have to take SA's past into consideration. In South Asia calling some one younger than you "Boy" is common, but you will get killed in US if you call a AA a Boy. There is time and place for everything, wearing swimsuit in a beach is ok, but it's not ok for a official meeting.
There should be a some kind of cultural training for teams before they go on a foreign trip. They are representing their country.

Yes they should give cultural classes before every tour, like in SA dont call Black Man Kalle, fat man mota, english poms, etc.

 

[JattMaula]

Unfortunately this type of casual racism is quite common in subcontinent.

But Sarfraz is the national captain and millions of people were watching the match. Really reflects badly on him.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Yes that is the exact definism of racism, reducing people to their skin color and dehumanizing them


According to your logic now instead of name every one should be called by skin color.

Because it's dehumanising in a way that black people across the globe have been dehumanised for centuries purely because of the colour of their skin.

Certain words carry a great deal of baggage depending on context.

This!

Nope. Slippery Slope fallacy.

Come one guys, you're trying to define racism here...

 

[hadi123]

Stupid stuff. Whether it's 'racist' or not it was avoidable and completely unnecessary. A captain of a national team shouldn't be saying this.

 

[Mr.Q]

Well if the word ‘blacks’ is a generally accepted word to identify a certain group of people or race, why can’t kaley be accepted? He just translated it

Rameez handled it very well in the com box. Someone inexperienced like Bazid Khan would have translated the whole thing

 

[Pakpak]

I thought someone who did black.magic was bad and a witch?

''do you have mother in your ground praying for you?''

Yes, very black magicky and witchy.

 

[Banter]

Overreaction.

SA and Aus players have got away with much worse.

I thought only Ostriches stick their head in the sand.

 

[Syed1]

Well if the word ‘blacks’ is a generally accepted word to identify a certain group of people or race, why can’t kaley be accepted? He just translated it

Rameez handled it very well in the com box. Someone inexperienced like Bazid Khan would have translated the whole thing

Even given word by word literal translation

 

[Sirris]

So he called him black? He is black. I'm unsure but I think he's Zulu. It's part of his identity. So what?

You guys are too sensitive.

It is alright you don't have the culture context in front of you. You not understanding the hype is similar to an Alien visiting earth and getting wierded out why the word "nigg*r" is taboo when all it means is "black".

 

[Pakpak]

All he said was is your mother in the ground praying for you.... that's not bad, considering how Kohli and others give curses related to mothers and sisters.


That racism part though..........

Forget that, our fan [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] above claims Sarfraz called his mother a magic practicing witch

 

[Ozymandiasza]

He is a human being and not a skin color. Reducing people to skin color is the definition of racism. Desis are very very racist but in a global world there is no excuse for ignorance. Racist are despised the world over

Yawn. Calling a black person black is not racism. Your outrage culture is ineffective and should be shunned.

 

[Syed1]

Forget that, our fan [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] above claims Sarfraz called his mother a magic practicing witch

) ) )



Bhai kuch bhi....

 

[Akki malhotra]

Well if the word ‘blacks’ is a generally accepted word to identify a certain group of people or race, why can’t kaley be accepted? He just translated it

Rameez handled it very well in the com box. Someone inexperienced like Bazid Khan would have translated the whole thing

What did ramiz translate?

 

[Big Mac]

Yawn. Calling a black person black is not racism. Your outrage culture is ineffective and should be shunned.

"This man is black" = Not racist

"Oi black!" = Racist

This isn't hard to understand.

 

[Indiafan]

''do you have mother in your ground praying for you?''

Yes, very black magicky and witchy.

I thought parwa is different from plain prayer. The former word is more close to a spell and has differerent connotations than a prayer. But my urdu is pretty rusty, maybe [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] can help

 

[Hamza_]

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

I will NEVER say anything about someone's mother. Specially when on professional duty and representing the country.

Kidhar bitha kar aaya hai apni ammi ko? What nonsense is this?

Also, Sarfraz knows that his mother is alive and healthy? These comments are unethical and way too low on morals.

 

[boomboomcheema]

Yawn. Calling a black person black is not racism. Your outrage culture is ineffective and should be shunned.

Lol [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] , now stop and spread your propaganda elsewhere. You will even accuse your countrymen of being biggest racists just to imply that Sarfaraz was being racist.

 

[Snowflake]

He only crossed the line with "abay kaalay"

That is inexcusable. Other than that, it's all fine. Our players cop way worse than this on the field. Abuse and swear words are common.

 

[Pakpak]

I thought parwa is different from plain prayer. The former word is more close to a spell and has differerent connotations than a prayer. But my urdu is pretty rusty, maybe [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] can help

Parwa means to get read. Eg before every exam as a kid I'd get my momma to parwa a dua for my success.

Your Urdu isn't rusty, its unintelligible.

 

[Hamza_]

Tragedy that this guy is leading our national cricket team.

 

[srh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sarfaraz Ahmed to Andile Phehlukwayo:<br><br>"abbay kaale teri Ami kahan bethi hoyi hain aaj, kya parhwa kay aya hai aaj"<br><br>"black man wheres your mother sat? What have you asked your mother to pray for you today?"<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SAvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SAvPAK</a> <a href="https://t.co/vw6yuE73OE">pic.twitter.com/vw6yuE73OE</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1087776394329944064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 22, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Am I the only one who does not find this derogatory? He did not abuse the player. Mentioning the skin of a person while not abusing him would not be polite but would it be consider derogatory?
For example Charles Barkely once said: "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy (Eminem), and the best golfer is a black guy (Tiger Woods)". Nobody thought that it was derogatory for Eminem or derogatory for Tiger Woods. What I am missing?

 

[Pakpak]

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

I will NEVER say anything about someone's mother. Specially when on professional duty and representing the country.

Kidhar bitha kar aaya hai apni ammi ko? What nonsense is this?

Also, Sarfraz knows that his mother is alive and healthy? These comments are unethical and way too low on morals.

Looks like you need Urdu lessons too. Safraz said 'have you had a prayer read from your mother'' i.e. his unbelievable luck.

Nothing derogatory about that. The only bad thing was black.

 

[Mr.Q]

What did ramiz translate?

He said the sentence is too long to translate )

 

[iRfaN_LA]

Ok Sarfraz should be careful about what he is saying on field but talk about blowing things out of proportion.

We say “goray” all the time, is it racist too?

 

[Indiafan]

Yawn. Calling a black person black is not racism. Your outrage culture is ineffective and should be shunned.

So calling a white person black is racist? I love racists are the first ones to complain about out rage culture, it shows a lot about them actually

I will write this for others as I know you won't even read here as multiple people habe pointed this out

When someone says that person is black that is not racist

When someone calls a black person - hey black come here..that is racist

Even a simpleton can understand this. Aslo you are fooling no one here, you know exactly what you are trying to do, everyone else does. You have shown who you are

 

[Pete Rose]

Oh my god this thread is going to descend in to discussing if black people can use the n word, why cant i

 

[Big Mac]

Lol [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] , now stop and spread your propaganda elsewhere. You will even accuse your countrymen of being biggest racists just to imply that Sarfaraz was being racist.

I wouldn't look to someone that uses "outrage culture" unironically as a beacon for guidance.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

"This man is black" = Not racist

"Oi black!" = Racist

This isn't hard to understand.

Again, you're exaggerating the circumstances. I feel that way away. I highly doubt Andile or anyone from South Africa would have any idea what was meant.

Yes, a constant changing of definition is difficult to understand. The world would be a better place without this faux outrage.

 

[Indiafan]

Am I the only one who does not find this derogatory? He did not abuse the player. Mentioning the skin of a person while not abusing him would not be polite but would it be consider derogatory?
For example Charles Barkely once said: "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy (Eminem), and the best golfer is a black guy (Tiger Woods)". Nobody thought that it was derogatory for Eminem or derogatory for Tiger Woods. What I am missing?

How is this difficult to understand? In context you are talking about a third person. If I Say that person is black or tige5 wood is black thats not racist. If I walk up to tiger woods and sa6 - hey blacky, come here, that's racist

Is this really rocket science here?

 

[Greenstorm]

Who is PAK's deputy for this Series? PCB has burnt enough bridges - if CSAF makes a foul call here, I think PCB needs to play their card maturely.

With Mani at the helm, we can hope.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Harbajhan is seen as a hero in India but was banned for 3 tests for a similar racist comment. Sarfraz may get a similar ban but for ODI's.

 

[TeymurBlake]

OMG this is the last thing you want to see after the loss.

 

[Indiafan]

Again, you're exaggerating the circumstances. I feel that way away. I highly doubt Andile or anyone from South Africa would have any idea what was meant.

Yes, a constant changing of definition is difficult to understand. The world would be a better place without this faux outrage.

I have only use racists use the faux outrage term. It's a huge right wing talking point and their strategy

And no, no decent human being will have any difficulty in understanding. Just lile a decent human being knows the context and doesn't try to pretend

 

[Banter]

Yawn. Calling a black person black is not racism. Your outrage culture is ineffective and should be shunned.

LMAO. I guess n-word is fine too, its just a different pronounciation of *****, which was an acceptable term until the 1960s.

If you are indeed south african, let me guess you must also feel that the quota system is unfair eh?

 

[Pakpak]

Harbajhan is seen as a hero in India but was banned for 3 tests for a similar racist comment. Sarfraz may get a similar ban but for ODI's.

Don't worry our brothers will line up with a 1000 excuses for you.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

I wouldn't look to someone that uses "outrage culture" unironically as a beacon for guidance.

I'm sure you're very comfy in your "white" country with their liberal values.

 

[Greenstorm]

Well if the word ‘blacks’ is a generally accepted word to identify a certain group of people or race, why can’t kaley be accepted? He just translated it

Rameez handled it very well in the com box. Someone inexperienced like Bazid Khan would have translated the whole thing

yeah Rambo saved the day

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Harbajhan is seen as a hero in India but was banned for 3 tests for a similar racist comment. Sarfraz may get a similar ban but for ODI's.

Was he actually banned?

 

[Ozymandiasza]

LMAO. I guess n-word is fine too, its just a different pronounciation of *****, which was an acceptable term until the 1960s.

If you are indeed south african, let me guess you must also feel that the quota system is unfair eh?

Please don't exaggerate what I said. Again, you guys are fabricating a story here.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Oh my god this thread is going to descend in to discussing if black people can use the n word, why cant i

Pretty much.

Expect this thread to blow up even further once we get to the fallout.

 

[Indiafan]

Was he actually banned?

He was cleared actually. Sachin lied for him in testimony and there was no audio evidence

 

[UN talkz]

Might get ban for 4-8 ODIs/T20Is if proven guilty, which he is

 

[Sirris]

He said the sentence is too long to translate )

That was gold. Rameez needs to held a workshop with our players on how to manage media and journalists with annoying questions.

 

[Big Mac]

Again, you're exaggerating the circumstances. I feel that way away. I highly doubt Andile or anyone from South Africa would have any idea what was meant.

Yes, a constant changing of definition is difficult to understand. The world would be a better place without this faux outrage.

I'm not exaggerating anything.

He literally said "Oi blacky"

 

[ataullah]

لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله
Can't believe he said such a horrible thing. I'm speechless

 

[Indiafan]

Please don't exaggerate what I said. Again, you guys are fabricating a story here.

Dude again, you are fooling no one here. I have seen a lot on online forums. There are a lot of racists using the very same template you do. On moderated forum they will pretend and their biggest method is trying to downplay such incidents and justify. When they go back.to their safe places like reddit they will spout complete racism. It's like a template you follow.

Many pakistani and indian posters will not understand the gravity of what sarfraz said as causal racism is common here and we are far away from seeing the actual impact racism had on countries like South Africa. However your downplaying is all pretence, you know exactly what you are doing

 

[Big Mac]

I'm sure you're very comfy in your "white" country with their liberal values.

Ah, so we've moved on to the whataboutism section of the show.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

I'm not exaggerating anything.

He literally said "Oi blacky"

It that is what was meant in your culture, so be it. The translation I read had zero negative connotation.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So calling a white person black is racist? I love racists are the first ones to complain about out rage culture, it shows a lot about them actually

I will write this for others as I know you won't even read here as multiple people habe pointed this out

When someone says that person is black that is not racist

When someone calls a black person - hey black come here..that is racist

Even a simpleton can understand this. Aslo you are fooling no one here, you know exactly what you are trying to do, everyone else does. You have shown who you are

You are overreacting. Yes the comment is racist.

 

[srh]

How is this difficult to understand? In context you are talking about a third person. If I Say that person is black or tige5 wood is black thats not racist. If I walk up to tiger woods and sa6 - hey blacky, come here, that's racist

Is this really rocket science here?

But Sarfraz did not say that "come here" like Andile Phehlukwayo is his servant. If he has said it like this then I would agree with you that it is racist. But he did not and thats why I would consider this impolite and he should be suspended/fine by his board but I would not call it derogatory.

You know there is saying that "White men cant jump" in basketball. In a basketball match if a white player jump and dunk then if any black player mention it like "hey white man you jump and prove the myth wrong" would you say that black player utter derogatory words towards white player? Nobody would feel like that.

 

[Birdman]

Again, you're exaggerating the circumstances. I feel that way away. I highly doubt Andile or anyone from South Africa would have any idea what was meant.

Yes, a constant changing of definition is difficult to understand. The world would be a better place without this faux outrage.

Let me put it this way, say you are using it to identify someone "That Black Guy" it is not considered racist, but if you call or address someone *******, or "Hey *******, come here" then it is considered racist. Now you have reduced a human to mere color.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Ah, so we've moved on to the whataboutism section of the show.

Well, I've seen your philosophy before in a feminism thread (female commentators).

 

[Plumb]

I think he may get a fine or 1-2 match ban..

Good chance for Rizwan to come and make couple of hundreds as PP experts think he can and lets see..

 

[Big Mac]

It that is what was meant in your culture, so be it. The translation I read had zero negative connotation.

Once again - It's LITERALLY what he said.

It has zero negative connotation to you because you don't actually give a toss about racism but don't have the backbone to come out and say it.

 

[slipcatch]

Not his fault.

The "g-ora complex" countries where skin whitening products are doing great business probably would not understand what he said was offensive.

It has been sadly indoctrinated, it will take time to be adequately educated regarding subtle racism in South Asian countries.

This incident also highlight another point, being Hafiz-ul-Quran does not actually teaches you the real teaching of Islam, only make you memorize Qu'ran in Arabic.

 

[Pete Rose]

Might get ban for 4-8 ODIs/T20Is if proven guilty, which he is

Think if he is smart, he will go straight to the dressing room and apologize. My only issue is how do you apologize away something so vile, which by the way, wouldnt raise any eyebrow back home. I make no defense for it, but it is something beyond malicious racism, its tone-deaf racism: the distinction being your sum total of culture and upbringing never made you aware of this.
I suppose the counter argument to this is he is representing pakistan in an international environment.

 

[JibranAnsari]

In my opinion the quota of "races" is more racist thing than this comment by sarfraz.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Let me put it this way, say you are using it to identify someone "That Black Guy" it is not considered racist, but if you call or address someone *******, or "Hey *******, come here" then it is considered racist. Now you have reduced a human to mere color.

I'm sorry, some of your comment was censored beyond recognition. Perhaps we shouldn't censor words as much.

I'm unsure what you mean. We have quite an "advanced" sense of racism. Referring to a black person as black is not racist over here. Nor is coloured as coloured, or white as white.

 

[Birdman]

But Sarfraz did not say that "come here" like Andile Phehlukwayo is his servant. If he has said it like this then I would agree with you that it is racist. But he did not and thats why I would consider this impolite and he should be suspended/fine by his board but I would not call it derogatory.

You know there is saying that "White men cant jump" in basketball. In a basketball match if a white player jump and dunk then if any black player mention it like "hey white man you jump and prove the myth wrong" would you say that black player utter derogatory words towards white player? Nobody would feel like that.

No it's not because, white people were not dehumanized by black people.