Australia v New Zealand | 2nd Test | WACA | Nov 13-17, 2015 | Match Thread

[dashing_man]

what would be New Zealand without Kane

He's the best batsman they have produced since Martin Crowe

 

[Random Aussie]

what would be New Zealand without Kane

He's the best batsman they have produced since Martin Crowe

He's real good, lucky his teammates are no good.

 

[Convict]

New Zealand bowled a total of 25 balls in line to hit the stumps on day 1
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - you might be interested to know that Ryan Harris was talking about experiments with the Duke Ball in Australia. It doesn't last on the harder surfaces.

 

[test_fan]

Hope NZ score 500 too and we get a dull draw.

 

[Junaids]

New Zealand bowled a total of 25 balls in line to hit the stumps on day 1
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - you might be interested to know that Ryan Harris was talking about experiments with the Duke Ball in Australia. It doesn't last on the harder surfaces.

I'm fascinated, but I believe that he is wrong.

Firstly, is Ryan Harris aware that there are two versions of the Dukes ball, one for soft English pitches and one for abrasive surfaces in the West Indies and the like?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/aug/18/dukes-ball-ashes-england

Secondly, the source is Dukes themselves, but they claim that their balls are durable in Australia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ker-Dukes-up-for-a-match-with-Kookaburra.html

Thirdly, both Dave Warner and the Kiwis have had trouble with the Kookaburra at different times this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...eplacements-again-needed-20151114-gkz6yy.html

http://www.smh.com.au/business/kook...says-new-zealand-cricket-20150105-12ikye.html

The key deficit of the Kookaburra is covered in the first two articles. The Dukes ball has six rows of seam because it is hand-stitched. But on a Kookaburra, two of the six rows are decorative but inactive because they do not respond when the ball hits the pitch, hence the lack of lateral movement off the pitch.

You know me, I love Test cricket. But I've been watching India v South Africa rather than Australia v New Zealand much of the time because the combination of flat decks and soft, seamless balls means that Australia has amassed over 500 in the first innings of its last six home Tests.

And that's not a good thing. It's as bad as what Pakistan serves up in the UAE.

 

[ChachaCricket]

New Zealand bowled a total of 25 balls in line to hit the stumps on day 1
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - you might be interested to know that Ryan Harris was talking about experiments with the Duke Ball in Australia. It doesn't last on the harder surfaces.

The surface or the seam?

 

[Convict]

[MENTION=139353]ChachaCricket[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Ryan Harris said they were experimenting because of concerns that the modern kookaburras favoured batsmen too much. He said that he was supportive of introducing duke balls before the experiment.

But the balls didn't even last in the nets.
I think it was both the surface and the seam

 

[Aman]

He's real good, lucky his teammates are no good.

They aren't bad, it's just they haven't applied themselves well enough.

If you look back to batsmens dismissals, you'd see most were a result of poor judgement.

 

[Convict]

They aren't bad, it's just they haven't applied themselves well enough.

If you look back to batsmens dismissals, you'd see most were a result of poor judgement.

This is a case for most dismissals outside of unplayable wickets

 

[Aman]

This is a case for most dismissals outside of unplayable wickets

Pretty much.

We should have drawn at the Gabba, there were no demons in the pitch and the pitch wasn't a result wicket.

Better application was required.

 

[Gilly]

Pretty much.

We should have drawn at the Gabba, there were no demons in the pitch and the pitch wasn't a result wicket.

Better application was required.

But if the pitch was more bowler friendly then Aus would have won inside three days.

 

[Aman]

But if the pitch was more bowler friendly then Aus would have won inside three days.

Can't say, we've all seen your batsmen against sideways movement before.

 

[Convict]

Can't say, we've all seen your batsmen against sideways movement before.

Why does bowler friendly = sideways movement?

A quicker and bouncier wicket would also be bowler friendly

 

[Gilly]

Can't say, we've all seen your batsmen against sideways movement before.

So it probably would have ended in a draw then.

 

[Mamoon]

Sideways movement has nothing to do with the pitch, unless you're talking about seam movement.

 

[Aman]

Why does bowler friendly = sideways movement?

A quicker and bouncier wicket would also be bowler friendly

So slow wickets are bowler friendly?

 

[Aman]

Sideways movement has nothing to do with the pitch, unless you're talking about seam movement.

I was referring to the Aussies ability to play all types of movement - swing, seam and turn.

 

[Gilly]

Question for you Aman, which batsmen did better in England, Australia or NZ.

 

[Aman]

Question for you Aman, which batsmen did better in England, Australia or NZ.

As far as ability against swing and seam, it would probably be 1) England 2) NZ and then 3) Aus. You can bring up numbers, but that's my assessment of the teams based off what I've seen.

 

[Gilly]

As far as ability against swing and seam, it would probably be 1) England 2) NZ and then 3) Aus. You can bring up numbers, but that's my assessment of the teams based off what I've seen.

Of course you would not want to bring up numbers, you have a very good reason not to want to bring up numbers. Lets base it on what you have seen, you watched KW entire innings and claim it was better then Khawaja's even though you didn't watch Khawaja's because you only based it on what you seen and if you didn't watch Khawaja's innings then KW must be better. Is that how you do it, only watch NZ and then base you opinion on only what you see.

 

[Aman]

Of course you would not want to bring up numbers, you have a very good reason not to want to bring up numbers. Lets base it on what you have seen, you watched KW entire innings and claim it was better then Khawaja's even though you didn't watch Khawaja's because you only based it on what you seen and if you didn't watch Khawaja's innings then KW must be better. Is that how you do it, only watch NZ and then base you opinion on only what you see.

I never watched Khawaja this innings.

His first innings initially was shaky, whereas KW was solid throughout his 140 at the Gabba.

Khawaja was fortunate to score his 2nd 100 as he should have been given earlier but was saved by S. Ravi (nicked off, wasn't given and NZ had no reviews)

But go on with trying to justify Khawaja > KW.

 

[Gilly]

I never watched Khawaja this innings.

His first innings initially was shaky, whereas KW was solid throughout.

But go on with Khawaja > KW.

You missed the point by a mile but that was to be expected. Just keep finding excuses and hyping NZ players you seem to be very good at that.

 

[Aman]

You missed the point by a mile but that was to be expected. Just keep finding excuses and hyping NZ players you seem to be very good at that.

It's you who keeps trying to oversell your batsmen.

NZ's main strength is neutralized here in Aus, our bowlers are no better than India's in such conditions (this series has shown we're much worse).

Scoring against 130kph bowlers here is nothing for your batsmen, like it would be for most batsmen. I have to give credit to Aus for the intent they've shown, not many sides would have been as brutal as they've been.

KW has been able to adapt to the pace and bounce in the Aussie wickets and has made scoring against Australia's pacers look like childs play.

This is why I've been raving about the performance - scoring runs around the world in different conditions, demonstrating the ability to adapt to conditions so quickly is the hallmark of a top tier world class player.

 

[Gilly]

KW has been able to adapt to the pace and bounce in the Aussie wickets and has made scoring against Australia's pacers look like childs play. This is why I've been raving about the performance, scoring runs around the world in different conditions is the hallmark of a world class player. - .

So he has been comparable to Smith and Warner then.

NZ's main strength is neutralized here in Aus.

So what was NZ main strength in England then, was it Southee, Craig or maybe Henry care to expand on this.

It's you who keeps trying to oversell your batsmen.

That is a strawman argument created by you.

 

[Aman]

NZ's bowlers rely on swing through the air and seam off the pitch.

Just because some players didn't perform well there doesn't mean otherwise, Southee took 12 wickets at an average of 19 in the 2 match series in 2013.

Probably also worth noting that the 2015 series was just after the IPL (a few players arrived in England a week before the first Test..) and a long break from international cricket (last match was the WC Final in ~March) and Test cricket (hadn't played a Test since ~January).

So they weren't necessarily well prepared for a tough Test series against an English side returning from a Test series in the WI.

 

[Gilly]

NZ's bowlers rely on swing through the air and seam off the pitch.

Teams that have one dimensional bowling get found out, NZ need to get some variety into their bowling.

Just because some players didn't perform well there doesn't mean otherwise, Southee took 12 wickets at an average of 19 in the 2 match series in 2013.

That's great for Southee, Siddle took 6 wickets @11 from one match and Hazelwood took 16 @25 and Marsh took 8 @18 and Lyon took 16 @28 so as you can see it does not pay to have your team just rely on one type of wicket.

Probably also worth noting that the 2015 series was just after the IPL (a few players arrived in England a week before the first Test..) and a long break from international cricket (last match was the WC Final in ~March) and Test cricket (hadn't played a Test since ~January)

Great excuses, I'll file them under useless excuses for not performing

 

[Aman]

Stating fact is now an excuse.

Playing IPL cricket and having not played a Test for 5 months is great prep for a big series.

If we're singling out players - KW 3 wickets at 7.33 and Boult 13 wickets at 24.84.

 

[Gilly]

Stating fact is now an excuse.

Playing IPL cricket and having not played a Test for 5 months is great prep for a big series.

.

No a fact is playing against Sri Lanka on 7th Jan 2015 and then playing Against England on 21st May 2015 is not a valid excuse, sorry.

If we're singling out players - KW 3 wickets at 7.33 and Boult 13 wickets at 24.84

You don't get it do you, Australian bowlers performed in England and Australia. Wickets are not manufactured to suit NZ because they are one dimensional.

 

[Gilly]

Stating fact is now an excuse.

Playing IPL cricket and having not played a Test for 5 months is great prep for a big series.

.

Australia didn't play test cricket for almost twice as long as that before playing Pakistan in the UAE but was that ever offered as an excuse. Capetown 5th March until 22nd October.

 

[Aman]

Australia didn't play test cricket for almost twice as long as that before playing Pakistan in the UAE but was that ever offered as an excuse. Capetown 5th March until 22nd October.

If Aus were in the same situation before an Ashes, I have no doubt there would have been a backlash for players turning up to series off the back of the IPL days before an Ashes series.

The reason it wasn't brought up is because Aussies expected to get hammered in the UAE, you were beyond terrible in India a

 

[ChachaCricket]

[MENTION=139353]ChachaCricket[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Ryan Harris said they were experimenting because of concerns that the modern kookaburras favoured batsmen too much. He said that he was supportive of introducing duke balls before the experiment.

But the balls didn't even last in the nets.
I think it was both the surface and the seam

What dukes ball was it? Because they've tested balls that did not deteriorate at all.

http://www.sportsballshop.co.uk/spo...ricket-ball-supremacy-dukes-v-kookaburra/640/

It is reported that Kookaburra has had a number of test balls that have lost their shape quickly and have been of a quality not suitable for the international scene. This is where Dukes see the chance to make inroads into the supply of international cricket balls to the national governing bodies. Over the last 3 years Dukes have been testing a number of balls, with Cricket Australia and New Zealand, to see if they can produce a ball that can challenge the Kookaburra Turf ball, with positive reports. The ball will be constructed to a different specification, as the climate and ground conditions are much harsher in the southern continent. Dukes did produce one ball that was tested but it was too good and showed very little sign of deterioration over the 80 overs, so it was back to the lab to try again and tweek the formula by adjusting the surface finishes.

As Junaids pointed out, there are different types of Dukes. One for the abrasive surfaces in Windies and another for England. The outer surface is different for both.

I'd predict they'd have to flatten the seam slightly because of the harder surfaces in Australia and use a different lacquer.

The Dukes ball leather, created from northern hemisphere cowhide, is believed to be of better quality so I doubt the Kookaburra leather will outperform the Dukes.

 

[Aman]

No a fact is playing against Sri Lanka on 7th Jan 2015 and then playing Against England on 21st May 2015 is not a valid excuse, sorry.



You don't get it do you, Australian bowlers performed in England and Australia. Wickets are not manufactured to suit NZ because they are one dimensional.

So your batsmen were terrible? It's one or the other, don't let the dead rubber result fool you about how the series went. The English dominated the series.

1st Test - England won by 169 runs
2nd Test - Australia won by 405 runs (pitch backfired on England, offered their bowlers nothing)
3rd Test - England won by 8 wickets (chasing 120)
4th Test - England won by an innings and 78 runs

Dead rubber 5th Test - Australia won by an innings and 46 runs

 

[Convict]

What dukes ball was it? Because they've tested balls that did not deteriorate at all.

http://www.sportsballshop.co.uk/spo...ricket-ball-supremacy-dukes-v-kookaburra/640/



As Junaids pointed out, there are different types of Dukes. One for the abrasive surfaces in Windies and another for England. The outer surface is different for both.

I'd predict they'd have to flatten the seam slightly because of the harder surfaces in Australia and use a different lacquer.

The Dukes ball leather, created from northern hemisphere cowhide, is believed to be of better quality so I doubt the Kookaburra leather will outperform the Dukes.

It wasn't said. But given this was an official testing thing involving Ryan Harris and Cricket Queensland/Cricket Australia I'm pretty sure they knew what balls to use

 

[Abdullah719]

Looks like this match might be a draw after all. #sightscreengate

 

[trogger]

**** pitch even worse stadium never thought i would say it but time to ditch the WACA test, might as well just go with the drop in at least it comes with a working stadium.

 

[Varun]

These Australian pitches are a total joke.

 

[MMHS]

It's a treat to watch Will batting - reminds me of Ponting 15 years back; but probably a better driver (Patna was much better in horizontal bat shots).

 

[Varun]

Even I can pick up a bat and score a 50 on this.

 

[Justcrazy]

Good fightback by Kiwis , A draw likely now

 

[Justcrazy]

williamson

 

[ChachaCricket]

The WACA was twice as bouncy last year. What's happened this year? [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION]

 

[Abdullah719]

Well played Williamson.

I switch on Willow Cricket to see him reaching his hundred, but they skip the over showing ads.

 

[volcyz]

As I said, absolute joke of a test wicket.

 

[MMHS]

Brilliant, brilliant hundred; may be on a road but those 16 boundaries are worth of every penny.

The scoring rate of this Test suggests that still there is a good chance of result - at this rate NZ should cross AUS before stumps today (or get all out). 180 overs in last 2 days & the wicket is cracking - I think, we might see a result.

 

[Justcrazy]

for Williamson

 

[SL_Fan]

Gotta agree another joke of a pitch. Yeah Aussie pitches have generally been fairly flat for yonks but the ones being put up these days are SSC highways. What a shame. Was looking forward to this series would have been a good contest on decent wickets. Instead all we have seen is win the toss, bat first, rack up 500+, the end. That’s six Tests in a row that has happened. Four Tests v India and now these two. Disappointing stuff.

 

[Justcrazy]

why Nathan Lyon is not bowling ?

 

[ChachaCricket]

Gotta agree another joke of a pitch. Yeah Aussie pitches have generally been fairly flat for yonks but the ones being put up these days are SSC highways. What a shame. Was looking forward to this series would have been a good contest on decent wickets. Instead all we have seen is win the toss, bat first, rack up 500+, the end. That’s six Tests in a row that has happened. Four Tests v India and now these two. Disappointing stuff.

Gabba wasn't flat. This is.

 

[SL_Fan]

Gabba was flat. Shoddy batting by NZ and a bit of good bowling by Oz that's all.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Gabba was flat. Shoddy batting by NZ and a bit of good bowling by Oz that's all.

Nah. It had its usual bounce.

 

[SL_Fan]

I have been watching Gabba Tests for years. Usually offers a bit with the new ball. Except the Test against Eng last 4 have been shockers (v SA, v Ind and last one v NZ).

 

[ChachaCricket]

I have been watching Gabba Tests for years. Usually offers a bit with the new ball. Except the Test against Eng last 4 have been shockers (v SA, v Ind and last one v NZ).

Disagree. Gabba last year and this year offered enough. Other pitches have been flat.

The England pitch was actually flatter. It was just Johnson bowling at 150ks.

 

[Justcrazy]

Williamson great knock

 

[Justcrazy]

Partnership 150 runs

 

[Justcrazy]

Williamson can get a double hundred here.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Disagree. Gabba last year and this year offered enough. Other pitches have been flat.

The England pitch was actually flatter. It was just Johnson bowling at 150ks.

And Harris as well. Bowled superbly.

 

[ChachaCricket]

And Harris as well. Bowled superbly.

Ye, they bowled nicely in partnerships.

 

[Justcrazy]

Taylor starts well after lunch

 

[SL_Fan]

KW in with a good shot at making another double ton this year. Maybe even a triple.

 

[Justcrazy]

Good bouncer by Johnson , but four

 

[ChachaCricket]

This is really disappointing tbh. I've never seen the WACA with such low bounce, it was carrying through decently the first two days. Now it's basically become a drop-in pitch.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

That's a highway pitch.

Just watched 5 mins of the mtch and you know bowlers will be cannon fodder on that wicket.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hundred for taylor

 

[Lurker_Ind]

This pitch looks even more flatter than the ones that was dished out to India at the beginning of the year.

 

[SL_Fan]

Disagree. Gabba last year and this year offered enough. Other pitches have been flat.

The England pitch was actually flatter. It was just Johnson bowling at 150ks.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...-key-part-of-test-summer-20151030-gkn5yb.html

"The wickets we played on in my last series, that was India, the wickets we played on were horrible," Harris said.

"As a quick bowler, against England we had good, hard bouncy Test wickets. It suited us. We're at home so it should suit us."

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/feat...lt-southee-starc-johnson-hazlewood/2015-11-07

Harris: Thursday morning was one of those times so to see that the ball wasn’t swinging was quite surprising to me, and to the New Zealanders I’m sure.

Harris would know Gabba is is home track. There was a bit of green tinge on the track but pretty much all of it outside the playing area. Generally offers a bit with the new ball. Yes had a bit of bounce but so does this WACA track. But that doesn't mean it's not a road.

 

[khalil1986]

After all hype of it being quick and fast what a dull run fest this has become.

Credit to these two batting though as they were under the pump after Aussie first innings flat wicket or not.

 

[Aman]

But but but but [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] [MENTION=135125]Pantani[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION]

 

[Aman]

After all hype of it being quick and fast what a dull run fest this has become.

Credit to these two batting though as they were under the pump after Aussie first innings flat wicket or not.

I told you before, this wicket is no different to the one at the Gabba #allhype

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

How can people enjoy this bore fest is beyond me.

And by the way...Kane....

To do it under immense scoreboard pressure makes it a great innings. You fought and fought even in first test when others crumbled around you.

But as I said for Kohli's 4 100s....which were great too by the way....these pitches are a disgrace.

 

[Aman]

That's a highway pitch.

Just watched 5 mins of the mtch and you know bowlers will be cannon fodder on that wicket.

Nah, the Aussies just don't know how to bowl on it.

 

[Aman]

How can people enjoy this bore fest is beyond me.

And by the Kane....

To do it under immense scoreboard pressure makes it a great innings. You fought and fought even in first test when others crumbled around you.

Wicket is flat, but his strokes are on a another level

 

[khalil1986]

I told you before, this wicket is no different to the one at the WACA #allhype

Didn't quite get you, thought this is being played at the WACA LOL?

Anyway I reckon if NZ can draw this test which they hopefully should than with the day nighter coming up we all know how the Aussie batsman turn from lions to kittens when ball starts to move about NZ have a real shout to win next game but they need to draw this long way to go yet.

 

[Aman]

The Aussies absence from this thread speaks volumes

 

[Aman]

Didn't quite get you, thought this is being played at the WACA LOL?

Anyway I reckon if NZ can draw this test which they hopefully should than with the day nighter coming up we all know how the Aussie batsman turn from lions to kittens when ball starts to move about NZ have a real shout to win next game but they need to draw this long way to go yet.

Sorry Gabba* <.<

 

[Aman]

Raining boundaries

 

[Aman]

150

 

[ChachaCricket]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...-key-part-of-test-summer-20151030-gkn5yb.html



http://www.cricket.com.au/news/feat...lt-southee-starc-johnson-hazlewood/2015-11-07



Harris would know Gabba is is home track. There was a bit of green tinge on the track but pretty much all of it outside the playing area. Generally offers a bit with the new ball. Yes had a bit of bounce but so does this WACA track. But that doesn't mean it's not a road.

Harris didn't play at the Gabba against India. It did seam and Hazlewood took advantage. There was a tinge of green and the usual bounce. It was the only pitch that wasn't flat out of the 4.

The recent pitch had similar or more bounce than the one against England. There was no grass on either except in the last match there was cloud cover and the ball swung pretty good.

If you'd put that Harris and 150ks Johnson on the recent pitch, match would've been over in three days.

Gabba had much more bounce than this WACA pitch.

 

[dashing_man]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] where did the scoreboard pressure suddenly go

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Feel for the bowlers on this wicket.

It looks like NZ bowlers did manage to do a decent job by getting 9 wickets on this dead wicket.

 

[trogger]

Gabba was flat. Shoddy batting by NZ and a bit of good bowling by Oz that's all.

Gabba was just the normal gabba, both teams wasted the new ball where there was more than enough help.