Australian star David Warner says pay dispute puts Ashes summer in doubt

[ShoonyaSifar]

We were being told BCCI is collapsing after an ICC onslaught. Looks like CA itself is looking at a much bigger problem closer home.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cric...ts-ashes-summer-in-doubt-20170515-gw51tz.html

Some strong words there from Warner. Clarke echoed the same thoughts earlier.

For us, as cricketers, if we don't have contracts we are going to have to find some cricket to play somewhere else because that's what we love doing, and we're obviously going to look to maybe do something in the meantime, otherwise we don't get paid," Warner said. "A few boys might go over to play the Caribbean Premier League and I think there could be some of the England Twenty20s on as well. We want to keep participating for our country as much as we can, but if we don't have a job, we have to go and find some cricket elsewhere.

Warner also laughed off CA's proposals of saying no to IPL for a fat 3 years long central contract.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Well with every passing day the World is becoming far far more materialistic.

Don't want to offend anyone and please ignore my comment but we are drifting away from God which is major force behind all this.


I don’t think CA can compensate their players for not playing IPL and other leagues.


I think there will be no remedy for all this. They will have to give NOC's.


Only those players will have great ODI & Test Careers who will say No to some offers to give more time to International Cricket.


While if anyone prefers leagues than Ok fine Go ahead.

 

[aniket1911]

This thread is crying for some resident experts here, who had has believed that, players will chose country over these "pyajama leagues" even without any significant outlay handed out from their boards.

 

[Rafa]

Players must play for whoever pays more, not for the likes or dislikes of some Test fans.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Gutsy but stupid.

 

[cr7great]

from next ipl
pay cheque will be doubled

 

[ExpressPacer]

Scary times. The West Indies Twenty20 mercenaries was just the beginning.

 

[Pollack]

What is he saying? How's it possible. Bhaag bhai you always say players chose national duty first and wouldn't be lured by money. Lmao.
[MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]
)

 

[Pollack]

Players must play for whoever pays more, not for the likes or dislikes of some Test fans.

No bro. Pyjama leagues arent preferred by players. Its only preferred by audience who are not true cricket fans. True cricket = Test cricket. World revolves around tests. )

 

[MMHS]

I think, eventually it'll end like Cricket Board contracting players for 10-15 years period, for a minimum number of matches for National team, like they do in Club football or North American sports. Let me explain why -

T20 Leagues (Not only IPL), doesn't produce players - it's the cricket board that produces players through their system. We are looking it at a mid point - when Warner, AB or Gayle are established stars & they have sell value beyond their National team. But, as a teenager, they were no body - just like million kids trying to enter into limelight through their domestic system.

Don't get me wrong here - I do believe that established players will like to put their loyalty where the money is more, but we have to look it as an investment from the cricket board as well. In professional career, I was sent to a 2 weeks program at IMA Ahmadabad - with a contractual obligation of minimum service duration after that training (or buy out the contract for a hefty amount). That's same in every sports - in club football, club academies scout & develop players & they get the return on transfer-market, if some of their trainees end-up like Starling or Kaylan Mabappe.

Here, T20 franchise either have to build own system to scout teenagers, groom them in to pro cricketers through year long competition & other facilities. It's not fair that Cricket boards will find, nurture & develop Warners & ABs & Gayles & Sakibs & Afridis or Stokes, but once they are superstar - they'll be bought by someone, who can pay few players obnoxiously for few weeks. Mumbai Indians or Karachi Kings or Dhaka Dynamites pays big compared to BCCI, PCB or BCB, because they do it for 2 months & for 20 players; but they don't find or develop those 20 out of millions through a system.

If Warner is to decline CA's central contract, then he should return also those 5-6 years between the age of 18 to 23, which made today's David Warner - that's not possible. So, only way I see is a central contract (commitment) for U19 players for at least 12-15 years commitment from them for National cause (obviously that's a mutual win win agreement - cricket boards also have to be fair), if they are to use facilities & infrastructures for their development - otherwise, they should try to find a PL/SL team to groom them from the age of 18. Alternate is a $18/hour job to start with .....................

I find some bullish comments from few posters here (most likely those Indian's couldn't digest ICC's latest stance against BCCI), because they are unable to see the big picture. What they are thinking is, with BCCI's riches, everything is manageable - world cricket can be bought by IPL (BCCI). BUT, greed has no nationality, no limit, no justification - today, what Warner is saying, one day many Indian National players will say the same once every major market starts their T20 league. Apart from, few selected players, most fringe Indian players would like to become freelancer & play 5/6 T20 leagues all year round, if the chain of command is destroyed. BCCI can buy out top 100 players - indeed they can, but in a country of 1.3 billion, where the next 100 will go, or how many such 100s can BCCI buy out?

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Warner shows his true colours.

Australia should never play him again

 

[90MPH]

Cricket is becoming like football now.

So many greedy players who always want more.

Theats what these bakvaas 20/20 leagues have done to cricket.

It's ruined the sport - worst thing to happen to cricket.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Well with every passing day the World is becoming far far more materialistic.

Don't want to offend anyone and please ignore my comment but we are drifting away from God which is major force behind all this.


I don’t think CA can compensate their players for not playing IPL and other leagues.


I think there will be no remedy for all this. They will have to give NOC's.


Only those players will have great ODI & Test Careers who will say No to some offers to give more time to International Cricket.


While if anyone prefers leagues than Ok fine Go ahead.

Why are only players the saints who have to be unmaterialistic?

Broadcasters, viewers, admins all can be as greedy as they want, but the people doing the work should get nothing?

Players are the ones who have the best claim to the fruits of their efforts.

 

[Pollack]

Another ONE
) But I was told that players do not care for Pyjama leagues.

Kevin Pietersen blasts 'pathetic' England for pulling Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler from IPL as Black Caps remain for playoffs

 

[captain crook]

How stupid of Warner to say these words. Has he forgotten it's Australia and not some Sunrisers Hyderabad that gave him true fame? Is he also serious when he said these words? Appalling

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Why are only players the saints who have to be unmaterialistic?

Broadcasters, viewers, admins all can be as greedy as they want, but the people doing the work should get nothing?

Players are the ones who have the best claim to the fruits of their efforts.

Well thats kind of the whole point behind opposing BCCI's demands for all the money in the pot. Impractical, but everyone should be a little less greedy.

 

[HitWicket]

Another ONE
) But I was told that players do not care for Pyjama leagues.

Kevin Pietersen blasts 'pathetic' England for pulling Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler from IPL as Black Caps remain for playoffs

Let's be honest, KP would have slagged the ECB off whichever way they went.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

There is still 6 months to before the Ashes...this dispute will be over long before then. Eventually, CA will have to make concessions to the players.

Cricket boards should go for multi year contracts that offer stability.

 

[coy0607]

understandable decision from Warner (or anyone else in his place)

at the end of the day, like the rest of us, he needs to earn money to provide for himself and his family

just like any one of us would leave our current job for a better opportunity, cricketers need to do the same

 

[Pollack]

Let's be honest, KP would have slagged the ECB off whichever way they went.

Haha. True. But I am sure most players are positive about playing in leagues. This does not mean they are not patriotic. They are not denying to play for country. They play with passion for country as well. All they want is not to restrict their other source of income.

 

[Poutine]

Do people still doubt the power of IPL?

 

[Yossarian]

Well with every passing day the World is becoming far far more materialistic.

Don't want to offend anyone and please ignore my comment but we are drifting away from God which is major force behind all this.


I don’t think CA can compensate their players for not playing IPL and other leagues.


I think there will be no remedy for all this. They will have to give NOC's.


Only those players will have great ODI & Test Careers who will say No to some offers to give more time to International Cricket.


While if anyone prefers leagues than Ok fine Go ahead.

So some of those amongst the current crop who have IPL contracts will refuse sign these new 3 year CA contracts? So what? It will give an opportunity to those on the fringes of the squad, and don't have IPL contracts, to get into the national team and establish themselves. And if CA says they can only get a chance to do that if they committed not to go to the IPL for the next X number of years, they will say to the CA "where do I sign?".

If the CA dangles the carrots of these long term contracts, with the proviso of no IPL during the contract period, at an early enough stage of their careers (ie before they become big enough stars to be attracted by the IPL), then I can't see how they will refuse.

 

[Yossarian]

understandable decision from Warner (or anyone else in his place)

at the end of the day, like the rest of us, he needs to earn money to provide for himself and his family

just like any one of us would leave our current job for a better opportunity, cricketers need to do the same

Depends. Short term (a couple of months or so) lucrative contracts versus long term contracts (less lucrative but still pretty good).

Some prefer highly paid (short term) contract work, which carries the risk of searching for new contracts on a frequent basis, and being unemployed in between, whilst others prefer the stability and support provided by long term contracts providing steady, regular income even though they may be far less lucrative.

 

[Speedster777]

I don't think CA will back down. Warner will have to sign or lose his long term contract. Aussies are usually very nationalistic and aggressive in their approach CA will do what they're saying.

 

[jagatk]

So some of those amongst the current crop who have IPL contracts will refuse sign these new 3 year CA contracts? So what? It will give an opportunity to those on the fringes of the squad, and don't have IPL contracts, to get into the national team and establish themselves. And if CA says they can only get a chance to do that if they committed not to go to the IPL for the next X number of years, they will say to the CA "where do I sign?".

If the CA dangles the carrots of these long term contracts, with the proviso of no IPL during the contract period, at an early enough stage of their careers (ie before they become big enough stars to be attracted by the IPL), then I can't see how they will refuse.

Problem with your train of thought is that everybody has not been offered these contracts, only specific players.

 

[jagatk]

I don't think CA will back down. Warner will have to sign or lose his long term contract. Aussies are usually very nationalistic and aggressive in their approach CA will do what they're saying.

What happens if ACA don't back down either, this isn't few players vs board but the player association vs board. Sutherland should not have threatened because if things go south and an actual risk of boycott looms it ain't smith or warner who will be kicked out, players vs administrators will never end well for administrators.

 

[James]

Australians are patriotic about the Ashes. An agreement will be reached and the series will go ahead. Likely with a heavy loss for England - LOL.

 

[Hasan123]

The series will go ahead and Australian players will continue playing in the IPL.

 

[Big Mac]

Aussies running scared of Brummie legends Moeen and Woakes, as well they should be.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

So some of those amongst the current crop who have IPL contracts will refuse sign these new 3 year CA contracts? So what? It will give an opportunity to those on the fringes of the squad, and don't have IPL contracts, to get into the national team and establish themselves. And if CA says they can only get a chance to do that if they committed not to go to the IPL for the next X number of years, they will say to the CA "where do I sign?".

If the CA dangles the carrots of these long term contracts, with the proviso of no IPL during the contract period, at an early enough stage of their careers (ie before they become big enough stars to be attracted by the IPL), then I can't see how they will refuse.

But Yossarian Bro let's say a 20 years old talented player is there. If he is preferred over those who prefer IPL and signs 3 years contract than what happens next ? CA invested so much on him and than at 23 He will have a chance of going into IPL Lap. So this would mean Cricket boards will recruit players for very short time and after every 3-4 years there will be rebuilding phase. It would affect international Cricket massively.

 

[BD-fan]

Warner shows his true colours.

Australia should never play him again

If it was Sarjeel? Sarfaraz? Amir? Yasir?

Why would you deny them an earning? 6 weeks of craziness and bringing in loads of money.

 

[big_gamer007]

Do people still doubt the power of IPL?

Don't think anyone doubted the power of IPL what people including me doubt is a 9 month long IPL I don't think we will ever see that at max we can see a 3 month long IPL not more than that..

 

[JoniInsafian]

I think, eventually it'll end like Cricket Board contracting players for 10-15 years period, for a minimum number of matches for National team, like they do in Club football or North American sports. Let me explain why -

T20 Leagues (Not only IPL), doesn't produce players - it's the cricket board that produces players through their system. We are looking it at a mid point - when Warner, AB or Gayle are established stars & they have sell value beyond their National team. But, as a teenager, they were no body - just like million kids trying to enter into limelight through their domestic system.

Don't get me wrong here - I do believe that established players will like to put their loyalty where the money is more, but we have to look it as an investment from the cricket board as well. In professional career, I was sent to a 2 weeks program at IMA Ahmadabad - with a contractual obligation of minimum service duration after that training (or buy out the contract for a hefty amount). That's same in every sports - in club football, club academies scout & develop players & they get the return on transfer-market, if some of their trainees end-up like Starling or Kaylan Mabappe.

Here, T20 franchise either have to build own system to scout teenagers, groom them in to pro cricketers through year long competition & other facilities. It's not fair that Cricket boards will find, nurture & develop Warners & ABs & Gayles & Sakibs & Afridis or Stokes, but once they are superstar - they'll be bought by someone, who can pay few players obnoxiously for few weeks. Mumbai Indians or Karachi Kings or Dhaka Dynamites pays big compared to BCCI, PCB or BCB, because they do it for 2 months & for 20 players; but they don't find or develop those 20 out of millions through a system.

If Warner is to decline CA's central contract, then he should return also those 5-6 years between the age of 18 to 23, which made today's David Warner - that's not possible. So, only way I see is a central contract (commitment) for U19 players for at least 12-15 years commitment from them for National cause (obviously that's a mutual win win agreement - cricket boards also have to be fair), if they are to use facilities & infrastructures for their development - otherwise, they should try to find a PL/SL team to groom them from the age of 18. Alternate is a $18/hour job to start with .....................

I find some bullish comments from few posters here (most likely those Indian's couldn't digest ICC's latest stance against BCCI), because they are unable to see the big picture. What they are thinking is, with BCCI's riches, everything is manageable - world cricket can be bought by IPL (BCCI). BUT, greed has no nationality, no limit, no justification - today, what Warner is saying, one day many Indian National players will say the same once every major market starts their T20 league. Apart from, few selected players, most fringe Indian players would like to become freelancer & play 5/6 T20 leagues all year round, if the chain of command is destroyed. BCCI can buy out top 100 players - indeed they can, but in a country of 1.3 billion, where the next 100 will go, or how many such 100s can BCCI buy out?

It's a combination of two things: India has far less talent than Australia or England, and it has far more money.... This allows India to create a situation where they can forbid their players from playing in foreign leagues while trying to snatch the Warners with a lot of money...

Why would BPL, PSL, BBL etc... want any Indian player beyond the top 10 (maybe 20 if we're reaching players)? Indians are not that talented... Just look at how bad the domestic players in IPL are....

Top 100, top 200 It's just an asortment of trundlers, expensive spinners and railu kata batsmen...

For Australia, yes, top 100 could be decent... Or South Africa...

 

[aloo paratha]

Greed reaches new heights

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Some drama to get it more publicity and hype behind it. Nothing more.

 

[Yossarian]

But Yossarian Bro let's say a 20 years old talented player is there. If he is preferred over those who prefer IPL and signs 3 years contract than what happens next ? CA invested so much on him and than at 23 He will have a chance of going into IPL Lap. So this would mean Cricket boards will recruit players for very short time and after every 3-4 years there will be rebuilding phase. It would affect international Cricket massively.

There's only so many Aussie players that the IPL can absorb unless it expands to a far greater number of teams. Taking your scenario, say if a top player in his early to mid 20's comes to the end of his 3 or 4 or 5 year contract with CA and then decides to go IPL (and other T20 leagues), but at the expense of ending his career with CA, it will mean he's joining other Aussie's already there and in a similar situation.

However, each year there will be another handful coming onto the market (ie those who have established themselves as the new international stars but whose 3 or 4 or 5 year contracts with CA are coming to an end). And the T20 leagues will be eager to snap up this new fresh blood, who are now international stars but still relatively young and thus at their peak.

If the number of teams in the likes of IPL are not expanded, then how long before they are saturated with these Aussie stars and start shedding many who are still relatively young but must be discarded in order to create space for the new batch? And then these discarded ones will have nowhere to go because CA is not going to take them back, they already have a new replacement crop established.

Up until now, those Aussies who have gone to the IPL have either been those who knew that they were still part of CA and the IPL was just a lucrative bonus, or those who were coming to the end of their careers, and took early retirement in return for a final lucrative paycheck.

But if they were faced with a choice between the IPL or CA, at the peak of their careers, with years still at the top ahead of them, how many will still choose the IPL? Not everyone can be a Chris Gayle.

I believe [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] 's argument is on similar lines. And I think he's right, although not with the 15 years of contract lengths. I'd say more like 5 to 6 years at most (like football), but also involving transfer fee's when moving from club to club, being registered with only one club during the length of the contract (and only being allowed to play for that club, regardless of which T20 league that club belonged to) unless transferred as per above. ie Same as football.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Maybe I was wrong. Can't expect Indian or any desi players to say this. We have a long history and rich culture that wouldn't allow us to throw away our national colours.

 

[Junaids]

Some incredibly silly comments in this thread.

The players enjoy near universal support here in Australia, a country with a proud history of unionisation and collective employment contracts.

Cricket Australia is trying to rip the players off. All modern centralised sports have profit sharing for the players, and Cricket Australia is unilaterally seeking to stop that. (Meanwhile Aussie Rules is about to introduce it!)

The players - including Warner - did NOT threaten to strike. They found that the Board refused to budge.

So the players offered to go to binding independent arbitration. The Board refused, and threatened to stop paying the players if they didn't sign up to the dud contracts.

And Warner and the others turned back the Board's attack against them: "if you don't contract us, then we are free to play wherever we want".

This is all about Cricket Australia thinking its players are overpaid and wanting to increase its share of the cake.

But all the threats are coming from CA, not the players.

I support the players 100%. And so does every Aussie cricket lover I know.

 

[Convict]

This has absolutely nothing to do with IPL btw.

 

[idrizzy]

Some incredibly silly comments in this thread.

The players enjoy near universal support here in Australia, a country with a proud history of unionisation and collective employment contracts.

Cricket Australia is trying to rip the players off. All modern centralised sports have profit sharing for the players, and Cricket Australia is unilaterally seeking to stop that. (Meanwhile Aussie Rules is about to introduce it!)

The players - including Warner - did NOT threaten to strike. They found that the Board refused to budge.

So the players offered to go to binding independent arbitration. The Board refused, and threatened to stop paying the players if they didn't sign up to the dud contracts.

And Warner and the others turned back the Board's attack against them: "if you don't contract us, then we are free to play wherever we want".

This is all about Cricket Australia thinking its players are overpaid and wanting to increase its share of the cake.

But all the threats are coming from CA, not the players.

I support the players 100%. And so does every Aussie cricket lover I know.

Exactly. The whole argument is that CA is stopping profit sharing with the players which means a smaller slice of the pie as the pie goes from a 12" to 15" since cricket is growing.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No bro. Pyjama leagues arent preferred by players. Its only preferred by audience who are not true cricket fans. True cricket = Test cricket. World revolves around tests. )

True cricket is not test cricket only but all international cricket as well. No matter how hard some fans try to portray IPL as the real cricket they will always fall flat on their face in front of international cricket.

 

[princeuk]

Disgraceful comments by warner, he may be a terrific cricketer but incredibly unlikeable, he comes out and just says things which are stupid. There was a time that aussie cricketers were proud to play for their country, aussie aussie aussie and all that.

 

[JaDed]

Love how CA will make media portray this news in a different way,top board with respect to authority (or politics) and developing talent.

 

[Convict]

Love how CA will make media portray this news in a different way,top board with respect to authority (or politics) and developing talent.

With due respect what exactly are you on about?

 

[JaDed]

With due respect what exactly are you on about?

Accusation of how this is getting interpreted by everyone which might end up working in CAs favour, of course the Aussie understanding of it might be pro players but looking at comments here one can say at least people outside are interpreting this as a threat from Warner to CA.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Hopefully Warner will walk the talk unlike BCCI and stay away from ashes if CA doesn't agree with their demands. It seems he has learnt that technique of threatening, not walking the talk and then getting back to work again after spending years in Pyjama League.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Cricket is becoming like football now.

So many greedy players who always want more.

Theats what these bakvaas 20/20 leagues have done to cricket.

It's ruined the sport - worst thing to happen to cricket.

Good to see some fans realising what damage these Pyjama Leagues have done to cricket.

 

[spade]

Ban them!!! simple, if playing for your country isn't inspirational enough considering they are well off, these mercenaries do not deserve to represent Australia or any other country for that matter. I, for one, wouldn't miss single one of them.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Another ONE
) But I was told that players do not care for Pyjama leagues.

Kevin Pietersen blasts 'pathetic' England for pulling Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler from IPL as Black Caps remain for playoffs

Did Ben Stokes and Jos Buttler went against their board for IPL? No. Why are you looking so happy then? KP can say whatever he wants he is not part of English set up now and everyone understands why he is just taking shots at ECB nothing else.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Ban them!!! simple, if playing for your country isn't inspirational enough considering they are well off, these mercenaries do not deserve to represent Australia or any other country for that matter. I, for one, wouldn't miss single one of them.

Exactly. West Indies is the perfect example. Even though situation there is a bit complex but still they have found some talented players and guys like Gayle, Bravo, Sammy are not missed anymore. West Indies is not a country yet you can see some of their players putting so much effort.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Haha. True. But I am sure most players are positive about playing in leagues. This does not mean they are not patriotic. They are not denying to play for country. They play with passion for country as well. All they want is not to restrict their other source of income.

So fans who do not like IPL are traitors but players rejecting to play for a country are not traitors? There are players who will be ready to play for even 10% of their fees because playing for country is the biggest honour for them. Obviously burger fans won't understand that feeling so its not their fault.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Disgraceful comments by warner, he may be a terrific cricketer but incredibly unlikeable, he comes out and just says things which are stupid. There was a time that aussie cricketers were proud to play for their country, aussie aussie aussie and all that.

Bro,in Steve Waughs era,before the ACA was made,all the players in the national team were ready to go on strike because the CA(ACB back then) refused to increase their pay.
It's not a problem which has started now.

 

[JaDed]

So fans who do not like IPL are traitors but players rejecting to play for a country are not traitors? There are players who will be ready to play for even 10% of their fees because playing for country is the biggest honour for them. Obviously burger fans won't understand that feeling so its not their fault.

This kind of socialist mindset is not good,they are the best players but it's not like the board paid for their coaching since childhood,yes they gave them a chance but still the players put in those efforts, giving up so many teenage distractions to become what they have so they could be restricted in their earnings? Why?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Bro,in Steve Waughs era,before the ACA was made,all the players in the national team were ready to go on strike because the CA(ACB back then) refused to increase their pay.
It's not a problem which has started now.

If I remember correctly IPL didn't exist in Steve Waugh's era? [MENTION=142783]Pollack[/MENTION]

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This kind of socialist mindset is not good,they are the best players but it's not like the board paid for their coaching since childhood,yes they gave them a chance but still the players put in those efforts, giving up so many teenage distractions to become what they have so they could be restricted in their earnings? Why?

That is true for every sports not only cricket. Hockey players don't earn much yet they keep playing for India. There is something called as pride and honour for representing your country which business and money minded people can't understand. Thank god our army men don't think like this because they too don't get anything after giving up so many teenage distractions.

 

[Junaids]

The last dozen posts miss the point.

These players earn massive income for Cricket Australia.

And Cricket Australia is trying to reduce their share of it and divert more to themselves.

Because Giles Clarke and N Srinivasan behave in such an outrageous way we tend to forget that Cricket Australia were their willing accomplices in the Big Three Travesty.

The players are right. Cricket Australia is trying to use the same tactics BCCI did with the ICC: give us a bigger share of the money or we will destroy you.

Problem is, Cricket Australia is nothing without the players, as Kerry Packer proved 40 years ago.

The threats are an increasingly desperate bluff by a board which is trying to pressure the players into agreeing to be raped financially.

 

[Convict]

Its not a bluff Junaids.

Cricket Australia is headed by ex Rio Tinto and this is the norm for them.

And you'll find that sympathy isn't as much behind the players as you think. 20 years ago when they earned $24,000 a year you were right.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

This kind of socialist mindset is not good,they are the best players but it's not like the board paid for their coaching since childhood,yes they gave them a chance but still the players put in those efforts, giving up so many teenage distractions to become what they have so they could be restricted in their earnings? Why?

The boards have CREATED A MONOPOLY over the game. And they have the sheer courage to argue that THEY HAVE given player the chance?!!!??

That's the most unjust thing on this thread that people like Bhaag are promoting. Warner got employed because he is one of the best and he can get employed whether or not CA want to employ him because fans have demand for his skills. He owes NOTHING to CA and CA have no responsibility or claim to Warner's skills.

 

[Slog]

Its not a bluff Junaids.

Cricket Australia is headed by ex Rio Tinto and this is the norm for them.

And you'll find that sympathy isn't as much behind the players as you think. 20 years ago when they earned $24,000 a year you were right.

Can you summarise the issue if you don't mind? And your thoughts?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

That is true for every sports not only cricket. Hockey players don't earn much yet they keep playing for India. There is something called as pride and honour for representing your country which business and money minded people can't understand. Thank god our army men don't think like this because they too don't get anything after giving up so many teenage distractions.

You speak of respect for the army. But you are the kind of civilian who will keep saying respect for army from one corner of the mouth, but will not protest when jawans are paid 1/5th or less of what they deserve. It's the same mentality here. Players produce the fruits and put their body on the line and living-room heroes want them to be paid less and people sitting in AC offices should take all the money.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Its not a bluff Junaids.

Cricket Australia is headed by ex Rio Tinto and this is the norm for them.

And you'll find that sympathy isn't as much behind the players as you think. 20 years ago when they earned $24,000 a year you were right.

The players do have the sympathy.

But more importantly, it doesn't matter whether they do or do not have sympathy. The reality is they are employable and national boards no longer have a monopsony control over their employment, so it's the Board who will lose in a dispute because the players will earn just as much in foreign T20 while CA is in big trouble if they have to field 4th string sides.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You speak of respect for the army. But you are the kind of civilian who will keep saying respect for army from one corner of the mouth, but will not protest when jawans are paid 1/5th or less of what they deserve. It's the same mentality here. Players produce the fruits and put their body on the line and living-room heroes want them to be paid less and people sitting in AC offices should take all the money.

I already gave the example of army here. If this is not speaking in favor of them then what is?

Players demanding more money is not a new thing but threatening your board, ICC is not on especially when you can't walk the talk.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The players do have the sympathy.

But more importantly, it doesn't matter whether they do or do not have sympathy. The reality is they are employable and national boards no longer have a monopsony control over their employment, so it's the Board who will lose in a dispute because the players will earn just as much in foreign T20 while CA is in big trouble if they have to field 4th string sides.

Some of you are living in a bubble of delusion. You think this will work? How hard it is for some of you to understand in cricket Internationals will always be ahead of pyjama leagues? How long can these leagues survive without international superstars?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The boards have CREATED A MONOPOLY over the game. And they have the sheer courage to argue that THEY HAVE given player the chance?!!!??

That's the most unjust thing on this thread that people like Bhaag are promoting. Warner got employed because he is one of the best and he can get employed whether or not CA want to employ him because fans have demand for his skills. He owes NOTHING to CA and CA have no responsibility or claim to Warner's skills.

Yeah warner got employed because he is the best even after some disciplinary issues and punching Root right on his face. He surely owes nothing to CA.

The only board who is trying to create the monopoly over the game currently is BCCI. Have you protested against it or not?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

I already gave the example of army here. If this is not speaking in favor of them then what is?

Players demanding more money is not a new thing but threatening your board, ICC is not on especially when you can't walk the talk.

You will always say good things about the army, but if actual jawans have awful conditions or demand pay-raises will you speak in favour?

Many people always have an expectation that others should toil for 'honor and pride' while they themselves remain in absolute comfort. And anyone serving the nation dares to ask for what they deserve, and then they will be called selfish or unpatriotic even though they put their body on the line.

Sutherland has never made any sacrifice or effort and he has no special skill at all but he is demanding the players sacrifice their stake in Aussie cricket. Why should anyone support the board here? The players are the ones who play with injuries, do the hard work and have their bodies on the line.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

He is the best player. What does punching Root have to do with his cricket skills?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Some of you are living in a bubble of delusion. You think this will work? How hard it is for some of you to understand in cricket Internationals will always be ahead of pyjama leagues? How long can these leagues survive without international superstars?

The better question which we will see answered soon is whether international cricket can survive without super-stars.

Because make no mistake the super-stars don't belong to anyone. They are neither league superstars nor international superstars. The international boards are treating them like their servants and making threats, and the leagues are paying 2 or 3 times that much and treating them with friendship and respect.

If you are a cricketer would you rather be paid $2mn for two months and be treated like a friend by billionaire team owners or would you rather be paid $5,000 a match and be threatened and insulted by third-rate bureaucrats and administrators?

Why, in God's name would you think that internationals will win this fight?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Some of you are living in a bubble of delusion. You think this will work? How hard it is for some of you to understand in cricket Internationals will always be ahead of pyjama leagues? How long can these leagues survive without international superstars?

The better question which we will see answered soon is whether international cricket can survive without super-stars.

Because make no mistake the super-stars don't belong to anyone. They are neither league superstars nor international superstars. The international boards are treating them like their servants and making threats, and the leagues are paying 2 or 3 times that much and treating them with friendship and respect.

If you are a cricketer would you rather be paid $2mn for two months and be treated like a friend by billionaire team owners or would you rather be paid $5,000 a match and be threatened and insulted by third-rate bureaucrats and administrators?

Why, in God's name would you think that internationals will win this fight?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The better question which we will see answered soon is whether international cricket can survive without super-stars.

Because make no mistake the super-stars don't belong to anyone. They are neither league superstars nor international superstars. The international boards are treating them like their servants and making threats, and the leagues are paying 2 or 3 times that much and treating them with friendship and respect.

If you are a cricketer would you rather be paid $2mn for two months and be treated like a friend by billionaire team owners or would you rather be paid $5,000 a match and be threatened and insulted by third-rate bureaucrats and administrators?

Why, in God's name would you think that internationals will win this fight?

If this topic was about football I would have agreed with your superstars theory but this is not football. IPL is using the stars created by international cricket to get successful. If you destroy that IPL will also be dead within 5 years because there will be no new international superstars when the older one retires.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

He is the best player. What does punching Root have to do with his cricket skills?

Just like best players have the right to punch an opposition player in the bar their boards also have the choice not to select them again on disciplinary issues but they didn't do that. So warner should be thankful for that.

 

[MMHS]

There's only so many Aussie players that the IPL can absorb unless it expands to a far greater number of teams. Taking your scenario, say if a top player in his early to mid 20's comes to the end of his 3 or 4 or 5 year contract with CA and then decides to go IPL (and other T20 leagues), but at the expense of ending his career with CA, it will mean he's joining other Aussie's already there and in a similar situation.

However, each year there will be another handful coming onto the market (ie those who have established themselves as the new international stars but whose 3 or 4 or 5 year contracts with CA are coming to an end). And the T20 leagues will be eager to snap up this new fresh blood, who are now international stars but still relatively young and thus at their peak.

If the number of teams in the likes of IPL are not expanded, then how long before they are saturated with these Aussie stars and start shedding many who are still relatively young but must be discarded in order to create space for the new batch? And then these discarded ones will have nowhere to go because CA is not going to take them back, they already have a new replacement crop established.

Up until now, those Aussies who have gone to the IPL have either been those who knew that they were still part of CA and the IPL was just a lucrative bonus, or those who were coming to the end of their careers, and took early retirement in return for a final lucrative paycheck.

But if they were faced with a choice between the IPL or CA, at the peak of their careers, with years still at the top ahead of them, how many will still choose the IPL? Not everyone can be a Chris Gayle.

I believe [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] 's argument is on similar lines. And I think he's right, although not with the 15 years of contract lengths. I'd say more like 5 to 6 years at most (like football), but also involving transfer fee's when moving from club to club, being registered with only one club during the length of the contract (and only being allowed to play for that club, regardless of which T20 league that club belonged to) unless transferred as per above. ie Same as football.

There has to be a balance between club (league) vs Country. Cricket is an unique game which is dominated by Internationals, rather than club or Franchise, therefore it should have it's unique administration for existence. In olden days, players were suffering from discrimination (from own board), now the tide has altered - none of which is good. Contract period of 15 years is just an idea - can be 5, 8 or 10, but not just year by year. A long term contract by cricket board will bind the players, but that gives the players security as well - hardly a handful players are guaranteed for PL/SL contracts every year, rest are vulnerable to yearly auction. A long term contract also keeps them safe for longer period.

Regarding AUS players stand, I do understand Warner's logic, & I am sure the issue will be solved amicably. Players do deserve a % of revenue share, but that can't make the board bankrupt for 25 players, rather the money should be justifiably distributed among all professional players. Otherwise, the game will be polarized & top talents won't risk a career there. The reason is simple - if 25 players earn 100 times more than the next 250 combined, a career in cricket will be too risky & corruption will creep into selection process.

 

[MMHS]

It's a combination of two things: India has far less talent than Australia or England, and it has far more money.... This allows India to create a situation where they can forbid their players from playing in foreign leagues while trying to snatch the Warners with a lot of money...

Why would BPL, PSL, BBL etc... want any Indian player beyond the top 10 (maybe 20 if we're reaching players)? Indians are not that talented... Just look at how bad the domestic players in IPL are....

Top 100, top 200 It's just an asortment of trundlers, expensive spinners and railu kata batsmen...

For Australia, yes, top 100 could be decent... Or South Africa...

You didn't understand the concept - it's not about the quality of players, rather the economy of the sports. Even these days few Indian players were auctioned for $1mn or more - players, who'll struggle to make a Shield side. A synonymous example can be EPL - hardly any (if any) English player plays outside England, because for non English clubs, they are too expensive (or same fee & wage can bring far better players from elsewhere), while EPL clubs are forced to keep 8 English players (home grown) in roster - that results in astronomical figures for few quality players that England has. Milner draws 150K/week, Rooney 350K, Henderson 120K, Lallana 125K, Sturrdige 140K, Sterling 170K, Terry at this age 160K, GK Hart 120K ........while Stones was sold for 48mn, Luke Shaw 31mn (3 years back - current equivalence is almost double, not for devaluation only, soccer market has gone crazy these days), and these are figures in British Pounds. This has nothing to do with quality of players - compare this wage to 120K for Thomas Moeller or 125K for Lewandwiski. English players actually opt to play in Championship (2nd tier), instead of going to Portugal, Holland or even France, because net-off tax, a top earner in Championship actually earns more than what he can get in French 1st Division.

Read my last para carefully, you'll understand what I am trying to explain. Quality is last consideration when it comes to franchise sports, because the association between the Club & fan is at emotional level. Problem won't be in terms of quality, rather manageability.

 

[JoniInsafian]

You didn't understand the concept - it's not about the quality of players, rather the economy of the sports. Even these days few Indian players were auctioned for $1mn or more - players, who'll struggle to make a Shield side. A synonymous example can be EPL - hardly any (if any) English player plays outside England, because for non English clubs, they are too expensive (or same fee & wage can bring far better players from elsewhere), while EPL clubs are forced to keep 8 English players (home grown) in roster - that results in astronomical figures for few quality players that England has. Milner draws 150K/week, Rooney 350K, Henderson 120K, Lallana 125K, Sturrdige 140K, Sterling 170K, Terry at this age 160K, GK Hart 120K ........while Stones was sold for 48mn, Luke Shaw 31mn (3 years back - current equivalence is almost double, not for devaluation only, soccer market has gone crazy these days), and these are figures in British Pounds. This has nothing to do with quality of players - compare this wage to 120K for Thomas Moeller or 125K for Lewandwiski. English players actually opt to play in Championship (2nd tier), instead of going to Portugal, Holland or even France, because net-off tax, a top earner in Championship actually earns more than what he can get in French 1st Division.

Read my last para carefully, you'll understand what I am trying to explain. Quality is last consideration when it comes to franchise sports, because the association between the Club & fan is at emotional level. Problem won't be in terms of quality, rather manageability.

Yes, IPL overpays for Indian players.... No reason why PSL/BPL/BBL would overpay for mediocre indian talent....

Just look at your premier league example. Why doesn't la Liga buy any english player???

 

[Arsalan Pro]

This is a drama just like ICC vs BCCI one, they will agree on something.

 

[Junaids]

Its not a bluff Junaids.

Cricket Australia is headed by ex Rio Tinto and this is the norm for them.

And you'll find that sympathy isn't as much behind the players as you think. 20 years ago when they earned $24,000 a year you were right.

Exactly.

These corporate morons saw how the Waterfront Dispute two decades ago was won by the employers sacking the dockers and replacing them with new workers.

Best of luck winning a home Ashes with a team of juniors and reserves. And when it's a repeat of the Packer-less Ashes of 1978-79, which Australia lost 5-1 at home, let's see how smart the negotiating strategy looks.

And what exactly is the justification for cutting the players' share of revenue? Oh, that's right, "we just want to divert the money they earn for us from them to us".

The better question which we will see answered soon is whether international cricket can survive without super-stars.

Because make no mistake the super-stars don't belong to anyone. They are neither league superstars nor international superstars. The international boards are treating them like their servants and making threats, and the leagues are paying 2 or 3 times that much and treating them with friendship and respect.

If you are a cricketer would you rather be paid $2mn for two months and be treated like a friend by billionaire team owners or would you rather be paid $5,000 a match and be threatened and insulted by third-rate bureaucrats and administrators?

Why, in God's name would you think that internationals will win this fight?

Precisely. Elite sportsmen are much better at what they do than do than we are at our careers, but only have about a decade to earn their money.

Smart administrators would facilitate this and see their jobs as being to optimise the earnings of players at every level.

If you are an administrator trying to divert income from the players to yourself, you are in the wrong line of work.

Cricket Australia had a chance not to fight the IPL, but to future-proof their product against the BCCI holding it to ransom.

But Cricket Australia are so venal and self-serving that instead they are keeping the BCCI viable even during its COA troubles. They might as well send Srinivasan a telegram saying "don't worry about your current difficulties, we are making sure our players see you as their saviour and view us as their enemies".

 

[Yossarian]

The better question which we will see answered soon is whether international cricket can survive without super-stars.

Because make no mistake the super-stars don't belong to anyone. They are neither league superstars nor international superstars. The international boards are treating them like their servants and making threats, and the leagues are paying 2 or 3 times that much and treating them with friendship and respect.

If you are a cricketer would you rather be paid $2mn for two months and be treated like a friend by billionaire team owners or would you rather be paid $5,000 a match and be threatened and insulted by third-rate bureaucrats and administrators?

Why, in God's name would you think that internationals will win this fight?

This argument relies on the premise that the current superstars will always remain as being the superstars. It's overlooking the fact that the current superstars fade and disappear whilst new superstars are being created (by the boards) and taking the places of the old. And this is a continuous process. Like the waters of a fast flowing river passing under a bridge. And just like the flowing waters of the river can be disrupted before they get to the bridge, so can the boards take measures (such as long term contracts containing strict clauses and restrictions) before the superstars become too big for their boots.

 

[Napa]

It's a combination of two things: India has far less talent than Australia or England

Now I finally understand why India Test team is has an ICC rating of 122, while Australia has 108 and England 101.

 

[Napa]

Do people still doubt the power of IPL?

Some people still do... then again even more people believe in UFOs.

 

[Junaids]

Its not a bluff Junaids.

Cricket Australia is headed by ex Rio Tinto and this is the norm for them.

And you'll find that sympathy isn't as much behind the players as you think. 20 years ago when they earned $24,000 a year you were right.

Yes [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] I have dealt with this sort of imbecilic negotiating position before.

I mainly work in NSW, but I have been a part-time medical specialist for Queensland Health since 2001.

In 2012 we got a new right wing Queensland government, which won 78 out of 89 seats in parliament.

It used its mandate to launch a similar war against senior doctors, arguing that instead of "outdated" collective contracts we should be on "modern" individual ones.

In practice, it was just a means of weakening our bargaining power. When I arrived for my "individual" negotiations, I was given a contract, told that no conditions were open for discussion, and I could take it or leave it.

I took it, to preserve my final salary pension, and judging that the government's mass redundancies in other sectors would give it a short life.

Sure enough, the government which had 78 seats out of 89 in 2012 managed to lose power three years later by only winning 42 seats! And my individual contract was quickly replaced by a collective one.

What was interesting was that the government used the same arguments for the inferior "individual" contracts that Cricket Australia is using here:

1. "These people are rich anyway and they are just trying to get more money".
2. "Collective bargaining is old-fashioned and should be replaced with individual contracts"
3. "We would spend the money on grassroots services".

It's a blatant tissue of lies. It's about forcing people to take contracts with conditions they don't want.

 

[Junaids]

I should add, [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] , that this is part of the reason why "captains of industry" should not be allowed anywhere near cricket administration until or unless they get an MBA in sports administration.

This dispute is a carbon copy of the 1994-1995 Major League Baseball debacle, and it is occurring because the former Rio Tinto "captain of industry" probably has never even heard of that affair, and thinks that you can treat elite cricketers like miners, replace-able by someone cheaper.

Cricket's administrators should have advanced qualifications in sports administration which balance financial training with an understanding that they are not businessmen, but curators.