Babar Azam versus Lokesh Rahul

[jnaveen1980]

If 2 things that were missing from rahul's career so far are to be recalled - consistency & valuing his position.

In the recently concluded series, he got both of those covered.

To top it off, he had an extra/unforeseen bonus of captaining the team.
He must have observed the body language of the team members of his team while communicating to him as captain and as a team-mate - however small it is, hierarchy makes a difference to individuals.
Hope that will have established newer motivational goals in his mind to perform well.

His brain-fades still exist but the ceiling has gone to 40-50 level from the earlier 10-15 level.

He still has a long way to go before become world class like Rohit, Kohli. For one thing converting the starts. He must make it count 4 out of 5 times when you are in good flow.

 

[ind_win]

He still has a long way to go before become world class like Rohit, Kohli. For one thing converting the starts. He must make it count 4 out of 5 times when you are in good flow.

Yes, he has to make his good form count.

Also, observed his body language to be different - may be because of the backing of the team/captain or his recent success. He had a swagger about himself earlier. That is not so in-your-face now. It could be he has become a better actor or matured but it is good for the team that he realises scoring one match-winning knock doesn't make him better, doing it consistently does.

 

[shahid10]

Rahul is a match winner,So he's better..
Don't care about test,Just hope he carries his excellent form into the t20 world cup this year..

 

[spiderreddy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If K L Rahul doesn't score another run ever, that drive over extra cover for six should be immortalized in a logo.</p>— Ian bishop (@irbishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/irbishi/status/1223867837342797825?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 2, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Hawkeye]

KL is a T20 specialist right now.

Several leagues below Babar in Tests and ODIs.

In T20s too, the difference isn't that much but KL has an extra gear so slightly better.

Overall, no comparison. A T20 specialist cannot be compared with a batsman who is amongst the best in the world in all the three formats.

It's like saying Jos Buttler is better than Kohli or Smith.

Have some sense.

 

[Hawkeye]

Rahul is a match winner,So he's better..
Don't care about test,Just hope he carries his excellent form into the t20 world cup this year..

Indeed, just like Shahid Afridi is better than Tendulkar.

There's no comparison in match winning abilities there. Afridi several leagues ahead and also has tons of man of the match awards.

Same for Inzi, much more dynamic and match winner than Tendulkar.

Now don't hide.

 

[anikrc1]

Indeed, just like Shahid Afridi is better than Tendulkar.

There's no comparison in match winning abilities there. Afridi several leagues ahead and also has tons of man of the match awards.

Same for Inzi, much more dynamic and match winner than Tendulkar.

Now don't hide.

Pretty sure Tendulkar's mom per match ratio is better than afridi and Inzi. And how is inzi more dynamic than Tendulkar?

 

[Ab Fan]

KL is a T20 specialist right now.

Several leagues below Babar in Tests and ODIs.

In T20s too, the difference isn't that much but KL has an extra gear so slightly better.

Overall, no comparison. A T20 specialist cannot be compared with a batsman who is amongst the best in the world in all the three formats.

It's like saying Jos Buttler is better than Kohli or Smith.

Have some sense.

Babar is no Root/Williamson , let alone Kohli/Smith.

 

[jnaveen1980]

KL is a T20 specialist right now.

Several leagues below Babar in Tests and ODIs.

In T20s too, the difference isn't that much but KL has an extra gear so slightly better.

Overall, no comparison. A T20 specialist cannot be compared with a batsman who is amongst the best in the world in all the three formats.

It's like saying Jos Buttler is better than Kohli or Smith.

Have some sense.

This is an over the top statement lol "several leagues below". He achieved a highest Test ranking of no.8 only 2 years back. How will he suddenly go several leagues below someone who has barely crossed 1500 Test runs. by that account Babar is several leagues below Labuschagne.

 

[shahid10]

Indeed, just like Shahid Afridi is better than Tendulkar.

There's no comparison in match winning abilities there. Afridi several leagues ahead and also has tons of man of the match awards.

Same for Inzi, much more dynamic and match winner than Tendulkar.

Now don't hide.

That's what I was trying to say, Though afridi was a match winner albeit performing once in a blue moon,Even still he had an impact when he performed on those rare occasions,Babar even lacks that impact of afridi let alone Sachin..

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

which includes a 150 against ENG in ENG

Imam 7 hundreds in 37 odis so he is better the kl rahul right?
Period

Sure technically speaking, imam has achieved more than KL in ODIs.

But difference is one guy is batting at his best while other is barely getting started.

Imam is a liability to his team if he doesn't score much while Rahul is the opposite.

Rahul vs imam in ODIs will be a joke soon.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Sure technically speaking, imam has achieved more than KL in ODIs.

But difference is one guy is batting at his best while other is barely getting started.

Imam is a liability to his team if he doesn't score much while Rahul is the opposite.

Rahul vs imam in ODIs will be a joke soon.

With Mayank, Shaw, Gill, Vihari, and now even Rohit fighting for a spot, do you think Rahul will get a chance in tests anytime soon or ever?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

With Mayank, Shaw, Gill, Vihari, and now even Rohit fighting for a spot, do you think Rahul will get a chance in tests anytime soon or ever?

He may.

There is barely any test cricket post NZ series do he has a change.

He is growing in stature.

Tho the more important question is has he corrected his issues?

Shaw deserves to play in the XI.

Ridiculous talent and red hot form.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

KL Rahul ODI performance in the last 12 months

47@84 (could have done better with a fixed spot)

Last 2 series

55@95

Just needs to correct his flaws and his numbers will take care of itself.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

He may.

There is barely any test cricket post NZ series do he has a change.

He is growing in stature.

Tho the more important question is has he corrected his issues?

Shaw deserves to play in the XI.

Ridiculous talent and red hot form.

Apologies for the typos lol.

 

[Sidilicious]

I am most worried about tests.

He needs to go back to the basics.

He seemed to have gained his mojo back. It will be interesting to see if he can reap that in tests.

When he came on the test scene in 14/15, scored a century in Aus, and had an amazing run scoring 50s when our other batsmen were failing, he still didn't seem very sure of himself.

It wasn't helped by Shastri saying that 50s is not enough and he needs to score 100s. There was always pressure on Rahul for a place in the XI. He didn't seem to be one of Kohli's and Shastri's favourite, and thus suffered. Even when he gained the extra gear in T20s in WI (was it in 2016?) he still didnt seem to have the backing of the management.

It finally seems like he has the management's backing. Hell, they even made him the 3rd captain in T20s, when they had Bumrah. This should also fall over in ODIs and hopefully he will show similar consistency and class there.

In tests, we already have Mayank and Shaw, so not sure if he will be given a chance. (I do want Rohit to remain injured for another couple of weeks, so he doesn't open) Can't believe we are still having this discussion after Rohit's previous performances.

Anyway, the point being I see him doing very well in LOIs.

Him doing well in tests depends on
1. Getting the opportunity (this might happen, as I reckon they will go for KL if Rohit is injured/fails)
2. Getting his pre-2017 test solidity back (just hope he doesnt get over confident)

 

[globalcitizen]

There is a opinion among many that you are considered a good batsman only if you perform in test matches. It’s not for everyone..
If Rahul can just be best in white ball cricket it’s still good.
We should not push players into formats they are not successful at just for sake of it.. Rahul might still be good in tests for other teams but not this Indian team..

 

[spiderreddy]

Indeed, just like Shahid Afridi is better than Tendulkar.

There's no comparison in match winning abilities there. Afridi several leagues ahead and also has tons of man of the match awards.

Same for Inzi, much more dynamic and match winner than Tendulkar.

Now don't hide.

MOTM awards in ODIs
Sachin - 62 in 463 matches,
Afridi - 32 in 398

Now you know who should be hiding

 

[jnaveen1980]

KL Rahul ODI performance in the last 12 months

47@84 (could have done better with a fixed spot)

Last 2 series

55@95

Just needs to correct his flaws and his numbers will take care of itself.

Any time KL Rahul crosses 30 his average strike rate becomes 160 which is very good above Kohli, Dhawan, Rohit. So he is definitely an MVP.

 

[rollingstoned]

i had said earlier in the thread that give him the slightest bit of responsibility and he will shine. he looked like the alpha dog today both while batting and captaining with both Rohit and Kohli off the field. Batsmen tend to mature later so it is not surprising to see him come into his own after 27. Whether that translates into a good test career or not is a different matter, he's an important cog in white ball cricket so best not to muddle his thinking by making him think and implement a much more different approach which requires him to play less instinctively. as talented as he is he seems to play best when he's doing so with 'feel' rather than having to constantly think hard about his game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Are we still having this debate? Rahul is 2 years older than Babar and still leagues below him in Tests and ODIs. He isn't even in the Test team to begin with and only recently established himself in the ODI side. Even in T20Is, Babar has better numbers and the No. 1 ranking.

Rahul is a hugey gifted and talented player but Babar is just better.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Are we still having this debate? Rahul is 2 years older than Babar and still leagues below him in Tests and ODIs. He isn't even in the Test team to begin with and only recently established himself in the ODI side. Even in T20Is, Babar has better numbers and the No. 1 ranking.

Rahul is a hugey gifted and talented player but Babar is just better.

On current form he is behind Babar in tests. But overall, he isn't "leagues below" him. What exactly has Babar achieved in tests?

 

[Arya]

Are we still having this debate? Rahul is 2 years older than Babar and still leagues below him in Tests and ODIs. He isn't even in the Test team to begin with and only recently established himself in the ODI side. Even in T20Is, Babar has better numbers and the No. 1 ranking.

Rahul is a hugey gifted and talented player but Babar is just better.

To be fair, Babar wouldn't be in Indian Test team either, or get rare opportunities over the last few years.

As far as other formats go, the comparison is all about a rare talent vs a proven performer. While Rahul has thrown away the opportunities he got so far, there is a reason why many former Cricketers and experts are betting on him to be in the same league as Kohli and Rohit.

Right now, this comparison does bring back the memory of Umar Akmal being compared to Kohli in his early days, but the difference here is KL being managed by BCCI and a very capabale support staff. Few Cricketers today are capable of a meteoric rise, and Rahul imo leads that pack.

 

[JaDed]

KL Rahul ODI performance in the last 12 months

47@84 (could have done better with a fixed spot)

Last 2 series

55@95

Just needs to correct his flaws and his numbers will take care of itself.

You have been his long time supporter, somehow I have absolutely disliked the way he has played since the Windies test tour.

Also I don’t think he is captaincy material but clearly management is grooming him and they defn know more than an average fan like me.
I would be more inclined on Shaw, Gill, Mayank but all raw yet.

 

[Balthazar]

Rahul vs Pakistani bowlers in the upcoming T20 tournaments should be fun to watch. And I am 100% confident one of our fast bowlers is going to tame Babar.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

I honestly don't think Rahul has sealed his place in the ODI side yet. He's playing at a position he's not used to. If he has one bad series, Kohli will immediately start looking for replacements. In fact, Rahul might have to move back down the order in T20Is once Dhawan is back.

 

[Mamoon]

Never back a Pakistani batsman against his Indian counterpart. Never.

 

[Mobashir]

Never back a Pakistani batsman against his Indian counterpart. Never.

Just a few months ago you were saying Babar has won this.

Where you wrong?

 

[Mamoon]

Just a few months ago you were saying Babar has won this.

Where you wrong?

I have always believed that Rahul is far more gifted than Babar, but because of his dip in performance and Babar’s rise, I had to admit with a heavy heart that Babar has steered ahead of him.

However, now that Rahul is back on track and fulfilling his immense potential, he should leapfrog Babar in all formats.

So yes I have learned a lesson as well. Never back a Pakistani batsman against his Indian counterpart, even if the Indian batsman is out of sorts and the Pakistani batsman is flying.

If an Indian batsman has great ability, he will eventually translate it into performances because India doesn’t allow generational talents to get wasted.

 

[Waleed93]

Rahul has done quite well in his last few T20Is. He always had the natural ability to excel in this format, even if it has impacted his Test performances in a negative way.

Babar remains well ahead in Tests and ODIs, as shown by his numbers and his WC 2019 record. In T20Is, I would say that Rahul is marginally ahead at the moment. Babar remains the top ranked T20I batsman in the world, and he has scored runs everywhere against any opposition since his debut in this format.

As we saw in the ODI World Cup last year, this year's WT20 will most probably give us a fair idea about Babar and Rahul's standings in the T20 format.

 

[Pakhs]

I have always believed that Rahul is far more gifted than Babar, but because of his dip in performance and Babar’s rise, I had to admit with a heavy heart that Babar has steered ahead of him.

However, now that Rahul is back on track and fulfilling his immense potential, he should leapfrog Babar in all formats.

So yes I have learned a lesson as well. Never back a Pakistani batsman against his Indian counterpart, even if the Indian batsman is out of sorts and the Pakistani batsman is flying.

If an Indian batsman has great ability, he will eventually translate it into performances because India doesn’t allow generational talents to get wasted.

Why not learn another lesson while you at it? Couple of innings on flat decks on short boundaries against 3rd choice bowling line up don't mean much. Let him score 100s in Australia first. or dominate Steyn in SA etc.

 

[AMSS]

Why not learn another lesson while you at it? Couple of innings on flat decks on short boundaries against 3rd choice bowling line up don't mean much. Let him score 100s in Australia first. or dominate Steyn in SA etc.

Rahul's done that already, way before Baba Azam. And that hundred from KL at sydney actually helped India draw that match instead of useless soft runs Babar scored to pad his stats.

 

[Hyperion66]

Why not learn another lesson while you at it? Couple of innings on flat decks on short boundaries against 3rd choice bowling line up don't mean much. Let him score 100s in Australia first. or dominate Steyn in SA etc.

Dominated Steyn? Few boundaries in test innings isn't akin to dominating, he doesn't even have a single century in that tour for crying out loud. His performance in SA was absolutely mediocre if you consider the amount of hype he gets. If you are celebrating his SA performance than you must have very low batting standard sorry to say. This is like saying Pandya dominated SA attack based on his 90 odd in the first test.

Rahul has a ton in Australia in his second test at Sydney, you should have at least googled before commenting.

 

[Hitman]

Dominated Steyn? Few boundaries in test innings isn't akin to dominating, he doesn't even have a single century in that tour for crying out loud. His performance in SA was absolutely mediocre if you consider the amount of hype he gets. If you are celebrating his SA performance than you must have very low batting standard sorry to say. This is like saying Pandya dominated SA attack based on his 90 odd in the first test.

Rahul has a ton in Australia in his second test at Sydney, you should have at least googled before commenting.

He averaged 35 in that series, LOL. Scoring a few boundaries against an over the hill Steyn after he was coming back from surgery is akin to dominating him.

 

[Mamoon]

Why not learn another lesson while you at it? Couple of innings on flat decks on short boundaries against 3rd choice bowling line up don't mean much. Let him score 100s in Australia first. or dominate Steyn in SA etc.

“Been there, done that”

Rahul scored a century in Australia before Babar made his debut.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...india-4th-test-border-gavaskar-trophy-2014-15

Hitting a few crisp boundaries against a washed up Steyn means nothing.

Babar was actually a disappointment in South Africa - he was in very good touch but failed to convert his stats into a big score.

Had he done that, Pakistan could have avoided a whitewash against a weak South African side that got pounded by Sri Lanka and England at home.

Rahul has played several better knocks than Babar in Test cricket, such as the 199 vs England and the series vs Australia at home on tough pitches.

Rahul has always been better than Babar in Tests and T20Is, but Babar was way ahead of him in ODIs. However, with Rahul getting into his own now, he should steer ahead of Babar in ODIs as well over the next 5-6 years.

He is simply a more complete batsman. He can do everything Babar can, but he also has an extra gear and the explosiveness that Babar lacks.

 

[zain7077]

Isn’t this Kl Rahul the same bloke who was trying to play a t20 in a test match the last tour of Australia? Even Pat Cummins was laughing at the lack of trust he had in his defence.

 

[Pakhs]

“Been there, done that”

Rahul scored a century in Australia before Babar made his debut.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...india-4th-test-border-gavaskar-trophy-2014-15

Hitting a few crisp boundaries against a washed up Steyn means nothing.

Babar was actually a disappointment in South Africa - he was in very good touch but failed to convert his stats into a big score.

Had he done that, Pakistan could have avoided a whitewash against a weak South African side that got pounded by Sri Lanka and England at home.

Rahul has played several better knocks than Babar in Test cricket, such as the 199 vs England and the series vs Australia at home on tough pitches.

Rahul has always been better than Babar in Tests and T20Is, but Babar was way ahead of him in ODIs. However, with Rahul getting into his own now, he should steer ahead of Babar in ODIs as well over the next 5-6 years.

He is simply a more complete batsman. He can do everything Babar can, but he also has an extra gear and the explosiveness that Babar lacks.

What are his stats in England? in ODI cricket and Tests? Dont carwe about T20s

 

[Pakhs]

He averaged 35 in that series, LOL. Scoring a few boundaries against an over the hill Steyn after he was coming back from surgery is akin to dominating him.

Dominated Steyn? Few boundaries in test innings isn't akin to dominating, he doesn't even have a single century in that tour for crying out loud. His performance in SA was absolutely mediocre if you consider the amount of hype he gets. If you are celebrating his SA performance than you must have very low batting standard sorry to say. This is like saying Pandya dominated SA attack based on his 90 odd in the first test.

Rahul has a ton in Australia in his second test at Sydney, you should have at least googled before commenting.

And what was Rahul average? Thanks

 

[RainStopsPlay]

Isn’t this Kl Rahul the same bloke who was trying to play a t20 in a test match the last tour of Australia? Even Pat Cummins was laughing at the lack of trust he had in his defence.

No, it's the same KL Rahul who tonked Cummins and Starc to all corners of the park for fun and won a match for his side just a couple of weeks ago!

 

[Ronaldo7]

Someone tell [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] to calm down.

No one except a few indians even know who rahul is let alone rate him.

Babar was one of the highest run scorers in the WC. He led the side. What did Rahul do?
You must be deluded if you compare the amount of pressure Rahul is in compared to Babar.
Babar is our main batsman. *** is Rahul?
We all saw how s**t Rahul was in Australia. Just coz he scored a few on the Indian dead pitches, it doesn't make him anything substantial.
The guy's 27 and has been playing for a few years and people here are calling his 1-2 hundreds his peak lol.
Is Rahul that mediocre?

Some Indian fans just can't accept the fact that a Pakistani batsman is being rated higher than their Indian counterpart.

No one cares about your opinion lol. The facts are that people rate Babar higher than Rahul. Accept it or continue living in your bubble.

I'd honestly be surprised if Rahul's around in the next 3-4 years. The guy's a hack

 

[Ronaldo7]

No, it's the same KL Rahul who tonked Cummins and Starc to all corners of the park for fun and won a match for his side just a couple of weeks ago!

On a dead pitch, Faulkner scored 116 off 70 odd balls.
Where is he now?

A tailender can score a hundred on a dead pitch.

What did Rahul do on slightly swinging pitches?

"Edged and GONE"

 

[jnaveen1980]

I understand Pakistan has unearthed Mr.Consistency after eons. Rahul after a promising start flattered to deceive. Rahul is at his bottom. Babar is at his supposedly peak. But batsmen at peak scores 150s, 200s. 70s, 80s don't cut it. Forget about Rahul. Going by the history of promising batsmen this is not even close to the peaks of Hussey, Trott, Amla.He has barely started scoring runs. Yet to score a 1000 run in a calendar year. He has to have atleast 2 magical years in Tests to be bracketed along top players like Smith, KW, Root, Kohli.

Comments like "He is leagues above Rahul" makes me wonder whether some fans get carried away. Pandya has played 11 tests. Babar after first 11 tests had not scored, averaged as much as Pandya in Tests. Ashwin very early in his career produced a match saving 100 almost a match winning with 2 required to win 1 ball he couldn't quiet get it. Still helped draw the test

After 11 tests

Pandya

11 tests 18 innings 532 runs 31.29 avge 1 century 4 fifties

Ashwin

11 tests 17 innings 567 runs 43.61 avge 1 century 3 fifties

Babar

11 tests 22 innings 475 runs 23.75 avge 0 century 4 fifties


Until i see the crazy peaks guys like Moyo, Younis, Punter, Hussey, Amla, Trott and many batsmen achieved i will wait. He has the potential as he has no real distinct weaknesses except the usual vulnerabilities all batsmen have. If there is one thing he has to convert really big. He cannot allow the tailender to face more balls so that he can remain not out. Don't tell me he didn't do it. He did. In the Yasir shah & Babar partnership. Babar faced 73 deliveries. Yasir faced 127 deliveries.

 

[Mamoon]

What are his stats in England? in ODI cricket and Tests? Dont carwe about T20s

I have already addressed the ODI comparison, but I would elaborate on it further. Babar has been far ahead of Rahul in ODIs so far, but we need to have some perspective.

Rahul, like Babar, is a top 3 player. However, because he has to compete with arguably the finest top 3 in ODI history, it is extremely difficult for him to find a permanent place in the team.

He is mostly used as a backup and gets dropped after 1-2 low scores. He has been forced into a middle-order slot and he hasn’t been able to adjust so far. However, he showed good signs in the recent series against Australia.

A batsman of his talent has only been given 29 ODIs so far, and it would have been less than that had Dhawan not got injured in the World Cup.

If he was Pakistani, he would have been our first-choice opener for years now and would have had several centuries by now.

Similarly, if Babar was Indian, he would have played half the number of matches he has played for Pakistan so far.

You cannot compare Indian batting standards and competition to Pakistan. They are in a different galaxy.

As far as his Test performance in England is concerned, it is normal for subcontinent batsmen to struggle on their first English tour or first overseas tour.

Rahul actually wasn’t terrible on his first England tour. He had a top score of 149 and average around 30, which is far better than what Kohli managed on his first England tour and what Babar managed on first Australian tour in 2016.

 

[Hyperion66]

And what was Rahul average? Thanks

No one said Rahul dominated in SA, He was an utter flop. You claimed that Babar did that to Steyn which is absolutely wrong. Pretty much everyone here acknowledged that Babar is ahead on current form in test format than Rahul but this writing songs and ballads on Babar based on his mythical domination over Steyn is just plain stupid and cringe worthy.

 

[Rana]

I have already addressed the ODI comparison, but I would elaborate on it further. Babar has been far ahead of Rahul in ODIs so far, but we need to have some perspective.

Rahul, like Babar, is a top 3 player. However, because he has to compete with arguably the finest top 3 in ODI history, it is extremely difficult for him to find a permanent place in the team.

He is mostly used as a backup and gets dropped after 1-2 low scores. He has been forced into a middle-order slot and he hasn’t been able to adjust so far. However, he showed good signs in the recent series against Australia.

A batsman of his talent has only been given 29 ODIs so far, and it would have been less than that had Dhawan not got injured in the World Cup.

If he was Pakistani, he would have been our first-choice opener for years now and would have had several centuries by now.

Similarly, if Babar was Indian, he would have played half the number of matches he has played for Pakistan so far.

You cannot compare Indian batting standards and competition to Pakistan. They are in a different galaxy.

As far as his Test performance in England is concerned, it is normal for subcontinent batsmen to struggle on their first English tour or first overseas tour.

Rahul actually wasn’t terrible on his first England tour. He had a top score of 149 and average around 30, which is far better than what Kohli managed on his first England tour and what Babar managed on first Australian tour in 2016.

Statement 1 is wrong. The finest Top 3 in ODI history is not Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli. It will detail the thread but it’s not an accurate statement.

Let’s put some perspective.

Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting. This trio has 2 ODI World Cups to their. Ponting and Gilchrist have 3. They bat 2 and 3. In an era when only 1 ball was used, reverse swing was a part of ODI cricket and the quality of bowling was far, far better than what we see today.

Statement 1 already debunked and termed as emotional rather than realistic. Kohli has one WC but you would agree that he was carried by a set of much more mature and decorated batsmen at the time. Plus he was not a top 3 with Tendulkar, Sehwag and Gambhir running the show anyways.

 

[spiderreddy]

Rahul has 4 test 100s away from home. Babar has 1

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

https://www.icc-cricket.comhttps://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/t20i/batting

This comparison only gets better with each passing day. Rahul is now 2nd best T20I batsman in the circuit after Babar. Will be very interesting how both of them fare in T20 world cup where both are bound to be in the top orders of their respective teams.

But Babar is so ahead in ODIs that it isn't even a match lol. Rahul has to really score around 10 hundreds in the next 25 matches to be even considered for a comparison with Babar in this format.

In tests, Rahul doesn't even have a place in Indian side lol while Babar has already become the mainstay of Pakistan team. Clearly Babar destroys Rahul in this format.

All in all, it is 3-0 and a knockout to Babar at this moment. At best, Rahul will do better in T20s and make the comparison 2-1 still in favor of Babar at the end of this year. Even that is not guaranteed lol

 

[Hyperion66]

I understand Pakistan has unearthed Mr.Consistency after eons. Rahul after a promising start flattered to deceive. Rahul is at his bottom. Babar is at his supposedly peak. But batsmen at peak scores 150s, 200s. 70s, 80s don't cut it. Forget about Rahul. Going by the history of promising batsmen this is not even close to the peaks of Hussey, Trott, Amla.He has barely started scoring runs. Yet to score a 1000 run in a calendar year. He has to have atleast 2 magical years in Tests to be bracketed along top players like Smith, KW, Root, Kohli.

Comments like "He is leagues above Rahul" makes me wonder whether some fans get carried away. Pandya has played 11 tests. Babar after first 11 tests had not scored, averaged as much as Pandya in Tests. Ashwin very early in his career produced a match saving 100 almost a match winning with 2 required to win 1 ball he couldn't quiet get it. Still helped draw the test

After 11 tests

Pandya

11 tests 18 innings 532 runs 31.29 avge 1 century 4 fifties

Ashwin

11 tests 17 innings 567 runs 43.61 avge 1 century 3 fifties

Babar

11 tests 22 innings 475 runs 23.75 avge 0 century 4 fifties


Until i see the crazy peaks guys like Moyo, Younis, Punter, Hussey, Amla, Trott and many batsmen achieved i will wait. He has the potential as he has no real distinct weaknesses except the usual vulnerabilities all batsmen have. If there is one thing he has to convert really big. He cannot allow the tailender to face more balls so that he can remain not out. Don't tell me he didn't do it. He did. In the Yasir shah & Babar partnership. Babar faced 73 deliveries. Yasir faced 127 deliveries.

Posters who cut and paste stats to show Babar is in the same level with Kohli and Rohit will conveniently ignore this post.

 

[Hyperion66]

I have already addressed the ODI comparison, but I would elaborate on it further. Babar has been far ahead of Rahul in ODIs so far, but we need to have some perspective.

Rahul, like Babar, is a top 3 player. However, because he has to compete with arguably the finest top 3 in ODI history, it is extremely difficult for him to find a permanent place in the team.

He is mostly used as a backup and gets dropped after 1-2 low scores. He has been forced into a middle-order slot and he hasn’t been able to adjust so far. However, he showed good signs in the recent series against Australia.

A batsman of his talent has only been given 29 ODIs so far, and it would have been less than that had Dhawan not got injured in the World Cup.

If he was Pakistani, he would have been our first-choice opener for years now and would have had several centuries by now.

Similarly, if Babar was Indian, he would have played half the number of matches he has played for Pakistan so far.

You cannot compare Indian batting standards and competition to Pakistan. They are in a different galaxy.

Totally agree. Yes, Babar is ahead in ODI for now but it is not exactly fair to compare someone with 70+ Odis under his belt with someone hasn't even played 30. Not even considering the fact like unlike Babar Rahul even now doesn't have a fixed spot and often has to keep.

 

[Mamoon]

Statement 1 is wrong. The finest Top 3 in ODI history is not Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli. It will detail the thread but it’s not an accurate statement.

Let’s put some perspective.

Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting. This trio has 2 ODI World Cups to their. Ponting and Gilchrist have 3. They bat 2 and 3. In an era when only 1 ball was used, reverse swing was a part of ODI cricket and the quality of bowling was far, far better than what we see today.

Statement 1 already debunked and termed as emotional rather than realistic. Kohli has one WC but you would agree that he was carried by a set of much more mature and decorated batsmen at the time. Plus he was not a top 3 with Tendulkar, Sehwag and Gambhir running the show anyways.

Winning World Cups is a function of the team and not just the top 3. Australia had the best team of all time because they had a legendary player in every department.

Let me give you Gilchrist’s example - he played 3 World Cups, and he failed in every single semifinal, but his team was strong enough to carry him into the final, allowing him the opportunity to make amends.

The likes of Kohli and Rohit do not have that luxury. If they fail in a semifinal or a final, there is very little chance of India winning because the team is more dependent on their runs than that of the Australian top 3.

The current Indian team is fantastic, but overall, it is clearly inferior to the great Australian team. However, purely in terms of the top 3, I believe that they are better.

Rohit > Gilchrist
Dhawan < Hayden
Kohli > Ponting

Overall, India wins 2-1.

You put this Indian top 3 in that legendary Australian team (in place of Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting) and they will still win World Cups.

I have no issues with anyone rating the Australian top 3 better, but comparing their trophy hauls is not logical because it depends on the overall composition of the team.

Wasim and Brett Lee have won the same number of World Cups (Lee made his debut in 2000 and didn’t play in 2007), and both were brilliant ODI bowlers, but Wasim is still better.

If Wasim was bowling alongside McGrath and Warne, Australia’s bowling would be even more potent.

In my view, there is no doubt whatsoever that Rohit and Kohli are better individual ODI batsmen than Gilchrist and Ponting.

As far as the hypotheticals such as reverse-swing, one new ball, free-hits etc. are concerned, there is no evidence that the likes of Rohit and Kohli would not be successful in such conditions, just like there is no evidence that Gilchrist and Ponting would be scoring hundreds at the same rate as Kohli and Rohit in today’s era.

When it comes bowling attacks, the notion that the quality of bowling was far, far better is a blanket statement that doesn’t hold true when you dig deep.

The peak of that top 3 was between 2000 and 2007. During this period, Australia had by far the best attack in the world and they didn’t get to face them.

England’s attack today is better. Gough was an excellent ODI bowler, but Archer and Wood are equally good if not better. Rashid is a better ODI spinner than Giles.

After the retirement of Gough in 2005-06, England’s attack was terrible. In spite of that, they managed to beat Australia in the tri-series in Australia 2006-07. The likes of Sajid Mahmood was spearheading their attack.

New Zealand’s attack is slightly better today. Bond was individually better than their current bowlers, but the pace attack of Boult, Ferguson, Henry is better than what they had in the 2000s.

However, you can also say that they were even because of the Bond factor.

Wasim and Waqar were finished by 2002, and retired by 2003. Razzaq was also done as a bowler by 2004. Asif was poor in ODIs, and Shoaib was barely available.

At one point in the 2000s, Rana Naveed, Sami, Shabbir Ahmad and Rao were leading our attack. The likes of Shaheen and Amir are better than these pacers. That attack had better spinners though.

India’s bowling is miles better today and the best at the moment. The Indian top 3 don’t get to face them just like the Australia top 3 didn’t face Australian bowlers.

West Indies’ attack is at the same level. They weren’t good enough then and they aren’t good enough now.

Sri Lanka’s attack is worse because of the Muralitharan factor. Malinga is better than Vaas though.

South African attack is slightly better. Rabada is comparable to Pollock, Steyn is/was comparable to Donald, and Tahir is way better than Boje.

Australia’s bowling is clearly inferior to what it was in the 2000’s, but this current attack is far better than the Indian attack Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting faced.

I have excluded Bangladesh etc. for obvious reasons. Zimbabwe were a good side in the early 2000’s, but once they stop playing white players, their cricket went downhill.

Overall, you can argue that the quality of bowling attack has slightly regressed today, but to say that the bowling was far, far better is an inaccurate statement as I have shown.

If you give the Indian top 3 and the Australian top 3 the same number of matches against the same attack in the same conditions, I would bet on Rohit and Kohli out scoring Gilchrist and Ponting, although Hayden might score more runs than Dhawan.

 

[zain7077]

Brad Hogg said Babar Azam is a top 3 player in world cricket. Mike Hussey said he will be in the Fab Four soon. Ricky Ponting was full of admiration and said he is well on his way as well. He is simply rated higher which Indians can’t seem to digest.

 

[DRsohail]

You can write essays after esaays but Babar is better and will remain better player. Not saying Rahul is not good .

 

[Darkrai]

Rahul's stats

 

[Darkrai]

Babar's stats

 

[Rana]

Winning World Cups is a function of the team and not just the top 3. Australia had the best team of all time because they had a legendary player in every department.

Let me give you Gilchrist’s example - he played 3 World Cups, and he failed in every single semifinal, but his team was strong enough to carry him into the final, allowing him the opportunity to make amends.

The likes of Kohli and Rohit do not have that luxury. If they fail in a semifinal or a final, there is very little chance of India winning because the team is more dependent on their runs than that of the Australian top 3.

The current Indian team is fantastic, but overall, it is clearly inferior to the great Australian team. However, purely in terms of the top 3, I believe that they are better.

Rohit > Gilchrist
Dhawan < Hayden
Kohli > Ponting

Overall, India wins 2-1.

You put this Indian top 3 in that legendary Australian team (in place of Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting) and they will still win World Cups.

I have no issues with anyone rating the Australian top 3 better, but comparing their trophy hauls is not logical because it depends on the overall composition of the team.

Wasim and Brett Lee have won the same number of World Cups (Lee made his debut in 2000 and didn’t play in 2007), and both were brilliant ODI bowlers, but Wasim is still better.

If Wasim was bowling alongside McGrath and Warne, Australia’s bowling would be even more potent.

In my view, there is no doubt whatsoever that Rohit and Kohli are better individual ODI batsmen than Gilchrist and Ponting.

As far as the hypotheticals such as reverse-swing, one new ball, free-hits etc. are concerned, there is no evidence that the likes of Rohit and Kohli would not be successful in such conditions, just like there is no evidence that Gilchrist and Ponting would be scoring hundreds at the same rate as Kohli and Rohit in today’s era.

When it comes bowling attacks, the notion that the quality of bowling was far, far better is a blanket statement that doesn’t hold true when you dig deep.

The peak of that top 3 was between 2000 and 2007. During this period, Australia had by far the best attack in the world and they didn’t get to face them.

England’s attack today is better. Gough was an excellent ODI bowler, but Archer and Wood are equally good if not better. Rashid is a better ODI spinner than Giles.

After the retirement of Gough in 2005-06, England’s attack was terrible. In spite of that, they managed to beat Australia in the tri-series in Australia 2006-07. The likes of Sajid Mahmood was spearheading their attack.

New Zealand’s attack is slightly better today. Bond was individually better than their current bowlers, but the pace attack of Boult, Ferguson, Henry is better than what they had in the 2000s.

However, you can also say that they were even because of the Bond factor.

Wasim and Waqar were finished by 2002, and retired by 2003. Razzaq was also done as a bowler by 2004. Asif was poor in ODIs, and Shoaib was barely available.

At one point in the 2000s, Rana Naveed, Sami, Shabbir Ahmad and Rao were leading our attack. The likes of Shaheen and Amir are better than these pacers. That attack had better spinners though.

India’s bowling is miles better today and the best at the moment. The Indian top 3 don’t get to face them just like the Australia top 3 didn’t face Australian bowlers.

West Indies’ attack is at the same level. They weren’t good enough then and they aren’t good enough now.

Sri Lanka’s attack is worse because of the Muralitharan factor. Malinga is better than Vaas though.

South African attack is slightly better. Rabada is comparable to Pollock, Steyn is/was comparable to Donald, and Tahir is way better than Boje.

Australia’s bowling is clearly inferior to what it was in the 2000’s, but this current attack is far better than the Indian attack Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting faced.

I have excluded Bangladesh etc. for obvious reasons. Zimbabwe were a good side in the early 2000’s, but once they stop playing white players, their cricket went downhill.

Overall, you can argue that the quality of bowling attack has slightly regressed today, but to say that the bowling was far, far better is an inaccurate statement as I have shown.

If you give the Indian top 3 and the Australian top 3 the same number of matches against the same attack in the same conditions, I would bet on Rohit and Kohli out scoring Gilchrist and Ponting, although Hayden might score more runs than Dhawan.

OK. I see how you smartly compared Hayden to Dhawan and not to Rohit. And how you did not compare Gilchrist to Dhawan but instead with Sharma.

So Hayden> Rohit in all conditions and challenges of mental strength plus big matches (World Cup semi finals+finals)

Ghilcrist > Dhawan as the aggressive left handed opener and star performer in finals

Ponting> Kohli so far in all World Cup big matches but overall yes Kohli> Ponting as an ODI batsman. As a captain batsman of a solid champion unit I’m not so sure. Australia was a monster side filled with champion cricketers and they had an almighty leader in Ricky Ponting. The man was ruthless, he was influential and was not known for behaving like a clown with his antics. A true leader of men, Not Instagram sensations.

I’m hoping that the realistic Indian cricket fans will agree with me on this. You can be amazing week in week out by beating everyone left right and centre but you’ve got to do it when it matters also, and so far India with Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit have not been able to deliver when it happens. Maybe these are two home world cups can change that for their record.

As for your argument about bowling being better in this day an age as compared to the past. You failed me to submit your verdict on some of the best bowlers available to bowl. For instance, I agree that England’s bowling is much improved now, but they still had a genuine wicket taker in Andrew Flintoff during this period. Records and stats do not do justice to bowlers like Harmisson, Anderson and Broad (ODI cricket). Saj Mahmood was never the spearhead of English bowling.

How can you casually not include the South African pace bowlers Shaun Pollock and Makhaya Ntini, two ODI hall of famers and genuine wicket takers up front. Two very big reasons why South Africa were always the second best team in the circuit after Australia.

Akhtar may have hardly been available but he was always available to play against India. He took his fair share of beatings at the hands of Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Dhoni and Yuvraj. But let’s not ignore that he has always been pumped for this occasion and has also taken each one of these stalwarts out on numerous occasions. Rana Naved is underrated as an ODI bowler on this forum. He was a decent bowler who could bowl out swingers at a good pace, was generally a successful bowler. I cannot argue with your claim about West Indian pace bowling and also Sri Lankan pace bowling. It’s about right although Chaminda Vaas on a green deck was one hell of a bowler.

We have not covered the quality of spinners or that era with the quality of spinners today. Plus the fact that bowling actions were not so easily banned back then.

 

[Rajdeep]

[MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] - Bro, can you pls give this thread a bit of a rest. I am an Indian too and want Rahul to do well. But its a fact that he has not been a consistent scorer so far in his career. Even now when he is in top form, he is not converting good starts into big scores. Babar on the other hand looks much more assured at the crease and there is no harm in accepting it. Whatever happens in future nobody knows but as of today Babar is a better batsman than Rahul.

Let both play for couple of years and then this thread will make more sense. These constant bumping of thid thread after every knock of Rahul or Babar is making no sense except catfighting.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I understand Pakistan has unearthed Mr.Consistency after eons. Rahul after a promising start flattered to deceive. Rahul is at his bottom. Babar is at his supposedly peak. But batsmen at peak scores 150s, 200s. 70s, 80s don't cut it. Forget about Rahul. Going by the history of promising batsmen this is not even close to the peaks of Hussey, Trott, Amla.He has barely started scoring runs. Yet to score a 1000 run in a calendar year. He has to have atleast 2 magical years in Tests to be bracketed along top players like Smith, KW, Root, Kohli.

Comments like "He is leagues above Rahul" makes me wonder whether some fans get carried away. Pandya has played 11 tests. Babar after first 11 tests had not scored, averaged as much as Pandya in Tests. Ashwin very early in his career produced a match saving 100 almost a match winning with 2 required to win 1 ball he couldn't quiet get it. Still helped draw the test

After 11 tests

Pandya

11 tests 18 innings 532 runs 31.29 avge 1 century 4 fifties

Ashwin

11 tests 17 innings 567 runs 43.61 avge 1 century 3 fifties

Babar

11 tests 22 innings 475 runs 23.75 avge 0 century 4 fifties


Until i see the crazy peaks guys like Moyo, Younis, Punter, Hussey, Amla, Trott and many batsmen achieved i will wait. He has the potential as he has no real distinct weaknesses except the usual vulnerabilities all batsmen have. If there is one thing he has to convert really big. He cannot allow the tailender to face more balls so that he can remain not out. Don't tell me he didn't do it. He did. In the Yasir shah & Babar partnership. Babar faced 73 deliveries. Yasir faced 127 deliveries.

What's the obsession with bringing up Babar's first 11 tests?

You're only further proving the fact that Babar is improving at a rapid pace. Meanwhile Rahul has been averaging 20 in the last 2 years

 

[Ronaldo7]

[MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] - Bro, can you pls give this thread a bit of a rest. I am an Indian too and want Rahul to do well. But its a fact that he has not been a consistent scorer so far in his career. Even now when he is in top form, he is not converting good starts into big scores. Babar on the other hand looks much more assured at the crease and there is no harm in accepting it. Whatever happens in future nobody knows but as of today Babar is a better batsman than Rahul.

Let both play for couple of years and then this thread will make more sense. These constant bumping of thid thread after every knock of Rahul or Babar is making no sense except catfighting.

A very apt response.

 

[bala977]

One thing that has surprised me is Babar’s fixation on averages, rankings etc which seems to drive his thinking - when Bangla agreed to the recent tour, his focus immediately went to maintaining #1 ranking of the team - not a bad thing if it is part of a larger agenda, but he seemed to start with this as the main objective.

Which brings me to my main point - assume Pak are chasing a big score - if it means that he maintains #1 batsman ranking by remaining not out in this steep chase, he will more likely choose this option rather than trying to be aggressive and potentially getting out

 

[Hyperion66]

[MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] - Bro, can you pls give this thread a bit of a rest. I am an Indian too and want Rahul to do well. But its a fact that he has not been a consistent scorer so far in his career. Even now when he is in top form, he is not converting good starts into big scores. Babar on the other hand looks much more assured at the crease and there is no harm in accepting it. Whatever happens in future nobody knows but as of today Babar is a better batsman than Rahul.

Let both play for couple of years and then this thread will make more sense. These constant bumping of thid thread after every knock of Rahul or Babar is making no sense except catfighting.

Sorry bruv but if you don't like my views you can always use the ignore option, I will continue to post on the topic. What is the point of having a forum without passionate discourse and lively debates? Not singling you out but many posters here need to deal the fact that different opinions exist, you are welcome to disagree but you do not silence the voice.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What's the obsession with bringing up Babar's first 11 tests?

You're only further proving the fact that Babar is improving at a rapid pace. Meanwhile Rahul has been averaging 20 in the last 2 years

Yes let me tell you why the first 11 tests

WIth his first 10 odd tests he looked more average than Indian lower order. Suddenly in the next 10 odd Tests he is leagues above a top order going through a bad patch and on par with guys who have been churning out runs for years? He is under-rated by one group. He is over-rated by another group. Actually he is somewhere in between.

Second of all if Babar had played for India put out stats like that in his first 11 tests he would have never seen the light of Test matches again. KL Rahul lost his stocks after 6 or 7 test failures (which had a century as well).

Babar's first 11 test mirrors the last 11 tests of KL Rahul. KL Rahul may never get a chance to correct this due to extreme competition. An year back nobody even talked much about Labuschagne. Look at him own. He leapfrogged ahead of Babar in a matter of 2 series. Same thing can be done by any new comer say Gill, Shaw. Rahane who had two horrendous years of cricket jumped to no.5 spot in no time.
These days it doesn't take long to reach top.10 ranking. There is a good chance KL Rahul can very much do this if he gets a run and he makes use of it. That is why i pointed out this "leagues above" phrase. To use the phrase "leagues above" Babar has to do a lot more. He hasn't reached that stage yet.

Babar is technically slightly a better player at test level. He doesn't have the starting trouble as KL Rahul has. Maybe because Rahul played mostly as an opener (54 innings out of 60). Babar batted 50% of the time at 5 or 6. So the roles, the difficulty level is different.

KL rahul has intense competition. He may or may not get a chance to correct his record. But he is on the right track.

 

[jusarrived]

Brad Hogg said Babar Azam is a top 3 player in world cricket. Mike Hussey said he will be in the Fab Four soon. Ricky Ponting was full of admiration and said he is well on his way as well. He is simply rated higher which Indians can’t seem to digest.

Viv Richards said KL is best talent he’s seen in a while . Lara was saying the same during Aus series . Steyn was the first to big up KL way back in 2016 . All three greats of the game . So no it’s not just Indians who rate KL highly

 

[Ronaldo7]

Viv Richards said KL is best talent he’s seen in a while . Lara was saying the same during Aus series . Steyn was the first to big up KL way back in 2016 . All three greats of the game . So no it’s not just Indians who rate KL highly

Links to all three?

 

[jusarrived]

All those saying KL dosent even find a spot in test 11 , seriously think Babar would have got a chance in indian middle order ahead of Pujara , virat and Rahane ?

 

[Mobashir]

All those saying KL dosent even find a spot in test 11 , seriously think Babar would have got a chance in indian middle order ahead of Pujara , virat and Rahane ?

Rahane and Pujara are not in the same league as Babar. Pujara is a good test player but Rahane is not even that. He is just average. The fact that he has played so much shows how mediocre Indian batting has been compared to previous ones.

Moreover Rahul is an opener and with India not having a single good opener since Sehwag he should have played every possible match.

He was dropped for only one reason - > poor performances.

With what he did for over a year even in Zimbabwe he would have been dropped.

 

[jusarrived]

Links to all three?

It’s live matches . You will have to check videos of India’s WI tour , recent pre match show of Aus series for Lara’s comments .
This is was steyn , which you will find with a google search .
"KL Rahul is, in my opinion, a man destined to play for India. He hasn't quite scored the runs he would have liked this year, but I've seen a few batsmen in my career and he is serious class," Steyn wrote for Times of India.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Rahane and Pujara are not in the same league as Babar. Pujara is a good test player but Rahane is not even that. He is just average. The fact that he has played so much shows how mediocre Indian batting has been compared to previous ones.

Moreover Rahul is an opener and with India not having a single good opener since Sehwag he should have played every possible match.

He was dropped for only one reason - > poor performances.

With what he did for over a year even in Zimbabwe he would have been dropped.

Babar would have got into the Indian ODI line up but not tests. Especially not after his poor start. It was only due to Mickey that Babar was persisted with even in the low ranked Pakistan batting line up.

 

[jusarrived]

Rahane and Pujara are not in the same league as Babar. Pujara is a good test player but Rahane is not even that. He is just average. The fact that he has played so much shows how mediocre Indian batting has been compared to previous ones.

Moreover Rahul is an opener and with India not having a single good opener since Sehwag he should have played every possible match.

He was dropped for only one reason - > poor performances.

With what he did for over a year even in Zimbabwe he would have been dropped.

Babar is better than Puajra and Rahane already ? Can you tell me on what basis ?
Now I really want know which are those test knocks from Babar which puts them above one indian great and other who’s been responsible for multiple overseas wins for India .

 

[jusarrived]

Babar would have got into the Indian ODI line up but not tests. Especially not after his poor start. It was only due to Mickey that Babar was persisted with even in the low ranked Pakistan batting line up.

Babar would have a shot at No4 in indian ODI team , it’s debatable if he would have the same success as a no4 with his lack of power game . That we will never know .

 

[BreadPakoda]

Babar is a very good ODI batsman but posters are way overrating him in tests. He averages a paltry 42 despite batting in a very favorable position and people are making him look like a Bradman. No one has been able to list down his achievements in this format.

 

[jusarrived]

Rahane and Pujara are not in the same league as Babar. Pujara is a good test player but Rahane is not even that. He is just average. The fact that he has played so much shows how mediocre Indian batting has been compared to previous ones.

Moreover Rahul is an opener and with India not having a single good opener since Sehwag he should have played every possible match.

He was dropped for only one reason - > poor performances.

With what he did for over a year even in Zimbabwe he would have been dropped.

And KL being dropped , do you know when he was dropped first time ? He was ranked 6th or 8th in ICC ranking . It’s true he went through a bad phase of 10 test matches after that , but point being it’s far more difficult to keep your spot in indian team

 

[BreadPakoda]

Babar in a different league than Pujara in tests? Wow. I’ve heard it all. But not surprised one bit.

 

[Darkrai]

Babar against SENA:

Matches: 17....Average: 57.23.....SR: 131.44

Rahul against SENA:

Matches 16....Average: 44.23.....SR: 145.56


Babar has been a worthy number 1, but Rahul is raising.

 

[Darkrai]

Now in ODIs and Test:

Babar against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 40....Average: 47.45....SR: 86.28....100s: 3
Tests: Matches: 16....Average: 42.57....SR: 57.12....100s: 2

Rahul against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 13....Average: 22.09....SR: 84.96....100s: 0
Tests: Matches: 20....Average: 34.62....SR: 56.55....100s: 3

 

[Ronaldo7]

Now in ODIs and Test:

Babar against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 40....Average: 47.45....SR: 86.28....100s: 3
Tests: Matches: 16....Average: 42.57....SR: 57.12....100s: 2

Rahul against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 13....Average: 22.09....SR: 84.96....100s: 0
Tests: Matches: 20....Average: 34.62....SR: 56.55....100s: 3

And these Indians have the audacity to compare Rahul with Babar. )

22 )

 

[Mamoon]

OK. I see how you smartly compared Hayden to Dhawan and not to Rohit. And how you did not compare Gilchrist to Dhawan but instead with Sharma.

So Hayden> Rohit in all conditions and challenges of mental strength plus big matches (World Cup semi finals+finals)

Ghilcrist > Dhawan as the aggressive left handed opener and star performer in finals

The reason why I compared Gilchrist and Rohit is because I was comparing Australia’s best opener (Gilchrist) to India’s best opener (Rohit). However, if you want to compare Hayden and Rohit, I would still pick Rohit.

For me, only Tendulkar has a legit claim of being a better ODI opener than Rohit. What he has done in the last 7 years since moving up the order is mind-boggling.

The rate at which he scores centuries, his ability to convert those centuries into 150+ and 200+ scores, his six hitting agility, his performance in the World Cup 2019 etc. but him beyond openers like Hayden, Gilchrist, Jayasuriya, Anwar, Ganguly etc.

If he continues like this for another 2-3 years, he will also surpass Tendulkar as the GOAT ODI opener.

Ponting> Kohli so far in all World Cup big matches but overall yes Kohli> Ponting as an ODI batsman. As a captain batsman of a solid champion unit I’m not so sure. Australia was a monster side filled with champion cricketers and they had an almighty leader in Ricky Ponting. The man was ruthless, he was influential and was not known for behaving like a clown with his antics. A true leader of men, Not Instagram sensations.


I’m hoping that the realistic Indian cricket fans will agree with me on this. You can be amazing week in week out by beating everyone left right and centre but you’ve got to do it when it matters also, and so far India with Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit have not been able to deliver when it happens. Maybe these are two home world cups can change that for their record.

Not sure what is the point of taking jibes at Kohli for using Instagram. Everyone is a social media sensation these days, that is how life is. Even Ponting has finally jumped on the Twitter bandwagon, and several former cricketers are now using Instagram as well.

If Ponting was at the peak of his powers today, he would also be an instagram sensation.

I agree with you that Ponting has done better than Kohli in big World Cup matches. Nevertheless, you also have to factor in the different circumstances.

For example, Ponting’s epic 140* in the 2003 World Cup final came when he walked to the crease at 100/1 in 14 overs, on a flat pitch against a deflated attack that was already ripped to shreds by Gilchrist.

That situation is not exactly comparable to the situations Kohli had to walk in the 2015 and 2019 semifinals.

In the 2003 World Cup semifinal, Ponting got out for 2 and Australia limped to a below par total of 212. However, because of their imperious bowling and fielding, they still managed to defend the total.

If Ponting played for a less strong side, he wouldn’t have played the final and wouldn’t have had the opportunity score that 140*.

If other players would have been good enough to carry Kohli into the final in 2015 and 2019, maybe he would have made amends and done something special in the final, especially if he would have walked to the crease at 100/1 in 14 overs while batting first.

My point is that success/failure in big matches is often circumstantial and triggered by different events. There are somethings that are not in your control but they can impact your performance.

Kohli no doubt needs to do well in big World Cup matches, but he is already so far ahead of every ODI batsman that his competition is practically only with himself.

As for your argument about bowling being better in this day an age as compared to the past. You failed me to submit your verdict on some of the best bowlers available to bowl. For instance, I agree that England’s bowling is much improved now, but they still had a genuine wicket taker in Andrew Flintoff during this period. Records and stats do not do justice to bowlers like Harmisson, Anderson and Broad (ODI cricket). Saj Mahmood was never the spearhead of English bowling.

Harmison was an average ODI bowler, and Anderson and Broad peaked in ODI cricket around 2009-10 and until 2012-13. They weren’t particularly good during the peak years of Australia.

Flintoff was very good, and so was Gough until his retirement in 2005-06. Overall, I think we can agree England’s bowling attack is somewhat better now.

How can you casually not include the South African pace bowlers Shaun Pollock and Makhaya Ntini, two ODI hall of famers and genuine wicket takers up front. Two very big reasons why South Africa were always the second best team in the circuit after Australia.

Ntini was an excellent ODI bowler but so was Morkel who retired in 2018-19. Pollock was brilliant and arguably better than Steyn in ODIs, but you cannot call a bowling attack of Steyn, Rabada, Morkel and Tahir a weak bowling attack.

You can argue either way, but overall, South Africa bowling attack has certainly not weakened in the 2010s. Things aren’t looking good in the 2020s though.

Akhtar may have hardly been available but he was always available to play against India. He took his fair share of beatings at the hands of Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Dhoni and Yuvraj. But let’s not ignore that he has always been pumped for this occasion and has also taken each one of these stalwarts out on numerous occasions. Rana Naved is underrated as an ODI bowler on this forum. He was a decent bowler who could bowl out swingers at a good pace, was generally a successful bowler. I cannot argue with your claim about West Indian pace bowling and also Sri Lankan pace bowling. It’s about right although Chaminda Vaas on a green deck was one hell of a bowler.

We have not covered the quality of spinners or that era with the quality of spinners today. Plus the fact that bowling actions were not so easily banned back then.

I agree that Rana Naveed was underrated and so was Rao, but would you take them over Shaheen and Amir? I won’t. Shaheen can be world class in the future but Rana and Rao were never world class material. Amir can also be world class on occasions.

West Indies had bowlers like Collymore, Bradshaw, Jerome Taylor, Dillion, Edwards etc. Would you really classify them as better than Roach, Rampaul, Bravo, Russell, Gabriel, Joseph etc.?

Regarding spinners, well apart from Muralitharan (since Australia didn’t play Warne) I don’t see much of a nosedive.

Pakistan actually struggled a lot in the spin department after Saqlain was finished and Malik was banned from bowling doosra. Afridi didn’t really come into his own as a spinner until the late 2000’s.

Harbhajan wasn’t better than the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep etc., Kumble wasn’t that good in ODIs either.

South Africa and England have been much stronger in the spin department in 2010s, and Vettori was good but Santner is almost identical to him.

As I said before, my aim is not to convince you that ODI bowling in 2000s was much worse than 2010s. Sure you can make argument that it was somewhat better, but I only took exception to the claim that ODI bowling today is much, much weaker which is gross exaggeration.

 

[Mamoon]

And these Indians have the audacity to compare Rahul with Babar. )

22 )

The ODI numbers are highly misleading because Rahul hasn’t been given a permanent role in the team. Since his debut, he has only played 29 ODIs, and he has moved around the batting order and forces to plug in gaps whenever someone is injured.

He is a top order player and it is almost impossible for anyone to compete with Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan.

If Rahul was in the Pakistan team, he would have been our first-choice opener and would play every match.

Similarly, if Babar was Indian, his stats would not look great because he wouldn’t bat in the top 3, and most of the time he would be batting in a situation where he would be going for quick runs, considering the consistency of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli.

You can call it ifs and buts all you like, but the truth is that you cannot compare Indian batting to Pakistan’s. It is far, far easier for a talented Pakistani batsman to standout compared to a talented Indian batsman.

Competing with Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan is not the same as competing with Hafeez, Imam, Fakhar, Shehzad etc.

 

[Darkrai]

I remember Babar used to get bashed on for scoring tons of runs against teams like SL and WI, even though he was good against top teams as well. But I guess those rules do not apply to Rahul or other Indian batsmen.

Rahul had no problem scoring runs against Zimbabwe, SL, and WI, but suddenly when he faced SENA teams, he started to feel the pressure of competing with Kohli, Rohit, and Dawan.

It's easy to declare a batsman superior because of his supposed incredible talent, but it's best to wait until the batsman achieves at least half of what you claim he is capable of achieving before you declare him as the clear winner.

There is nothing wrong with saying that Rahul has the talent to surpass Babar in all formats, but to claim that he is already better like many are claiming is a bit of nonsense.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Now in ODIs and Test:

Babar against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 40....Average: 47.45....SR: 86.28....100s: 3
Tests: Matches: 16....Average: 42.57....SR: 57.12....100s: 2

Rahul against SENA:

ODIs: Matches: 13....Average: 22.09....SR: 84.96....100s: 0
Tests: Matches: 20....Average: 34.62....SR: 56.55....100s: 3

So many contexts are missing.

in the last 5 years

Rishab Pant 7 tests average 42.66 vs SENA that too everything at SENA's home. Babar averages 37 in SENA in SENA. You can pick the best phase of one's career and compare it with worst phase of someone else's career and make him look worse.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Both are very talented but I believe Babar is slightly ahead.

However, the fact remains that if they switched countries, Rahul would be Pakistan's premier batsman in all formats and Babar would struggle to reach the India team