Bible, Archaeology & Ancient Arab History challenging Islamic History of Mecca and Deen e Ibrahimi

[Alam_dar]

Bible, Archaeology & Ancient Arab History challenging Islamic History of Mecca and Deen e Ibrahimi

According to Islamic history:

1. Prophet Abraham was the first one who came to Mecca along with Prophet Ismael. They laid the foundation of Mecca (about 2000 years BC) and it became the most famous city of Arab while thousands of Arabs came here every year for Hajj and Mecca was situated at the Trade Route.

2. All Arabs are the descendent of Prophet Ismael and the follower of Deen-e-Ibrahimi.

3. 300 years before Prophet Muhammad, there came a person named "'Amr ibn Luḥay al-Khuzai". He was the first one who put the seeds of Polytheism in Arbas. At that time Arabs turned polytheists.


But these claims of Islamic History have been challenged by Bible, Archaeology of Arabia and ancient history of Arabs.


Bible:

According to bible, Abraham ordered Hajar/Ismael to leave the city and they came to the desert of Beer Saba (present Israel). There appeared the well of water. Both Hajar/Ismael stayed there. Later Ismael married an Egyptian girl.
The descendants of Ismael lived in South Levant/North Arabia till Iraq. All of them were Jews. Later they mixed with the progeny of Ishaaq.
Moreover, according to bible it was Ishaaq who was chosen for the Sacrifice by God, but then the sheep appeared.

Along with bible, there are hundreds of other history books of Jews/Christians, but none of them ever mentioned of any Mecca, any Jews/Christians from Levant or other areas ever visiting Mecca for Hajj.

In fact Bible and all the history books of Jews/Christians are unaware of any Mecca, or any Deen e Ibrahimi in whole Arab.



Modern Archaeological Records of Arabia:

Arabia is one of the most richest places in the world where the Archaeological records have been found in form of inscriptions on stones and rocks and on walls of the temples. Due to the dry temperature and very low rain, most of these archaeological records were safe from any damage.

These archaeological records are unbelievably rich. There are tens of ancient cities which are north, eash and south of Mecca with thousands of inscriptions and tombs. The inscriptions are so detailed that we today know the names of almost all the Kings who ruled those cities and the names of the idols they worshipped and the wars that were fought with other cities etc.

But strangely, in all this archaeological recrods:

1. There is no mention of any Abrahamic God or Deen e Ibrahimi, or presence of Ibrahim/Ismael, or other stories of Adam/Eve/Noah etc.

2. And also there is no mention of any city named Mecca.
According to the archaeological findings, the city of Mecca was founded only about 300 years before Prophet Muhammad (while according to Muslims, Mecca was founded 2000 year BC i.e. before Christ).



History of Ancient Arabia:

Romans and Greeks sent expeditions to Arabia as they wanted to do Trade with Yemen through the trade Route along with Red Sea.

The Roman and Greek Historian wrote in details about all the cities of Arabia at that time. They mentioned all the tribes that were living in all those areas. They mentioned the temples, and the idols that were worshipped.

Strangely, not a single Historian ever mentioned the presence of any monolithic Allah, or Ibrahim, or Ismael, or Adam/Eve/Noah in whole Arab.

Also they were completely unaware of presence of any city with the name of Mecca, and completely unaware of Arabs visiting this city every year for Hajj (while according to Muslims Mecca was the most famous city due to Hajj by thousands of Arabs every year, and while it was present on the famous trade route)



Arabs at time of advent of Islam:

Strange that:

1. Arabs at time of Islam have absolutely no idea that they were the descendants of prophet Ismael. Quraish have no idea who Abraham was.

2. Arabs were also totally unaware that well of Zamzam was formed due to prophet Ismael.
According to Arabs, it was Abdul Muttalib (grandfather of Prophet Muhammad) who dug out the well of Zamzam for the first time few years before the birth of Prophet Muhammad.
All Muslim historians also accept that well of Zamzam was dug by Abdul Muttalib, but their story says that some time after Prophet Ismael, the well of Zamzam was covered with mud and hidden from the people till Abdul Muttalib rediscovered it.



Who was Sacrificed? Ismael or Ishaaq?

Today all Muslims know only this that Ismael was sacrificed.
But strange, the "Majority" of earlier Muslim Sahaba and Tabaeen believed that it was Ishaaq who was sacrificed.
Later this view changed and majority started claiming that Ismael was sacrificed.

According to the story of Bible, it was Ishaaq who was sacrificed.



Progeny of of Ismael forgot all within 300 years:

Another strange thing is this that Muslim claims that the progeny of Ismael were all followers of deen e Ibrahimi till 300 years before Prophet Muhammad.
At that time a person 'Amr bin Luhay introduced the idols and polytheism.

But how is it possible that progeny of Ismael forgot completely all (100%) about Allah, Ibrahim and Ismael within 300 years? It is next to impossible to believe it, while also the other proofs from archaeology and history going against it.

 

[Lonewarrior]

According to Islamic history:

1. Prophet Abraham was the first one who came to Mecca along with Prophet Ismael. They laid the foundation of Mecca (about 2000 years BC) and it became the most famous city of Arab while thousands of Arabs came here every year for Hajj and Mecca was situated at the Trade Route.

2. All Arabs are the descendent of Prophet Ismael and the follower of Deen-e-Ibrahimi.

3. 300 years before Prophet Muhammad, there came a person named "'Amr ibn Luḥay al-Khuzai". He was the first one who put the seeds of Polytheism in Arbas. At that time Arabs turned polytheists.


But these claims of Islamic History have been challenged by Bible, Archaeology of Arabia and ancient history of Arabs.


Bible:

According to bible, Abraham ordered Hajar/Ismael to leave the city and they came to the desert of Beer Saba (present Israel). There appeared the well of water. Both Hajar/Ismael stayed there. Later Ismael married an Egyptian girl.
The descendants of Ismael lived in South Levant/North Arabia till Iraq. All of them were Jews. Later they mixed with the progeny of Ishaaq.
Moreover, according to bible it was Ishaaq who was chosen for the Sacrifice by God, but then the sheep appeared.

Along with bible, there are hundreds of other history books of Jews/Christians, but none of them ever mentioned of any Mecca, any Jews/Christians from Levant or other areas ever visiting Mecca for Hajj.

In fact Bible and all the history books of Jews/Christians are unaware of any Mecca, or any Deen e Ibrahimi in whole Arab.



Modern Archaeological Records of Arabia:

Arabia is one of the most richest places in the world where the Archaeological records have been found in form of inscriptions on stones and rocks and on walls of the temples. Due to the dry temperature and very low rain, most of these archaeological records were safe from any damage.

These archaeological records are unbelievably rich. There are tens of ancient cities which are north, eash and south of Mecca with thousands of inscriptions and tombs. The inscriptions are so detailed that we today know the names of almost all the Kings who ruled those cities and the names of the idols they worshipped and the wars that were fought with other cities etc.

But strangely, in all this archaeological recrods:

1. There is no mention of any Abrahamic God or Deen e Ibrahimi, or presence of Ibrahim/Ismael, or other stories of Adam/Eve/Noah etc.

2. And also there is no mention of any city named Mecca.
According to the archaeological findings, the city of Mecca was founded only about 300 years before Prophet Muhammad (while according to Muslims, Mecca was founded 2000 year BC i.e. before Christ).



History of Ancient Arabia:

Romans and Greeks sent expeditions to Arabia as they wanted to do Trade with Yemen through the trade Route along with Red Sea.

The Roman and Greek Historian wrote in details about all the cities of Arabia at that time. They mentioned all the tribes that were living in all those areas. They mentioned the temples, and the idols that were worshipped.

Strangely, not a single Historian ever mentioned the presence of any monolithic Allah, or Ibrahim, or Ismael, or Adam/Eve/Noah in whole Arab.

Also they were completely unaware of presence of any city with the name of Mecca, and completely unaware of Arabs visiting this city every year for Hajj (while according to Muslims Mecca was the most famous city due to Hajj by thousands of Arabs every year, and while it was present on the famous trade route)



Arabs at time of advent of Islam:

Strange that:

1. Arabs at time of Islam have absolutely no idea that they were the descendants of prophet Ismael. Quraish have no idea who Abraham was.

2. Arabs were also totally unaware that well of Zamzam was formed due to prophet Ismael.
According to Arabs, it was Abdul Muttalib (grandfather of Prophet Muhammad) who dug out the well of Zamzam for the first time few years before the birth of Prophet Muhammad.
All Muslim historians also accept that well of Zamzam was dug by Abdul Muttalib, but their story says that some time after Prophet Ismael, the well of Zamzam was covered with mud and hidden from the people till Abdul Muttalib rediscovered it.



Who was Sacrificed? Ismael or Ishaaq?

Today all Muslims know only this that Ismael was sacrificed.
But strange, the "Majority" of earlier Muslim Sahaba and Tabaeen believed that it was Ishaaq who was sacrificed.
Later this view changed and majority started claiming that Ismael was sacrificed.

According to the story of Bible, it was Ishaaq who was sacrificed.



Progeny of of Ismael forgot all within 300 years:

Another strange thing is this that Muslim claims that the progeny of Ismael were all followers of deen e Ibrahimi till 300 years before Prophet Muhammad.
At that time a person 'Amr bin Luhay introduced the idols and polytheism.

But how is it possible that progeny of Ismael forgot completely all (100%) about Allah, Ibrahim and Ismael within 300 years? It is next to impossible to believe it, while also the other proofs from archaeology and history going against it.

whats the purpose of this thread ? whats the reason to create it ?

 

[Pakistanian]

Never heard of #3

 

[Pakistanian]

whats the purpose of this thread ? whats the reason to create it ?

To have a discussion, people shouldn't be insecure about their religious beliefs

 

[Lonewarrior]

To have a discussion, people shouldn't be insecure about their religious beliefs

no one is insecure here. i knw this guy from the post. he have posted in other forums too.
he writes too much offensive things about Prophet Muhammad ( P.B.U.H) in other forum.
here he just cant write it down. so he is coming from diff angle to do his propoganda.
he is one of those Athiest who dont respects other religion and try to spread too much propaganda about Islam.

 

[Heisenberg]

no one is insecure here. i knw this guy from the post. he have posted in other forums too.
he writes too much offensive things about Prophet Muhammad ( P.B.U.H) in other forum.
here he just cant write it down. so he is coming from diff angle to do his propoganda.
he is one of those Athiest who dont respects other religion and try to spread too much propaganda about Islam.

That's as insecure as insecure gets.

Religion itself is propaganda. Why don't you argue the OP instead of attacking the poster.

 

[Lonewarrior]

That's as insecure as insecure gets.

Religion itself is propaganda. Why don't you argue the OP instead of attacking the poster.

propaganda : information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

i dont need to argue with him. he has his biased and agenda. he is doing this all these things on other forums too.
i will attack OP if he dont give any source of it claims. just like what he do on other forums. claiming something without any source.
and if he provides a sources it will be from some anti-islamic sites.

 

[troodon]

Since Jesus is a Prophet, did he ever visit Mecca to Pray?

 

[DeadBall]

and if he provides a sources it will be from some anti-islamic sites.

Do any Islamic sites have any anti Islamic content in them or the possibilty to present contradicting views? So by definition that would make any site with opposing views or interpretations automatically Anti-Islamic.

 

[DeadBall]

Since Jesus is a Prophet, did he ever visit Mecca to Pray?

In Jesus's time nobody traveled such distances unless it was an entire army looking to invade, conquer etc. A common man would certainly not have traveled further than a couple of hundred kilometres at most and that too would have been an extraordinary achievement. The sheer time and resources to achieve that would have been mind boggling.

 

[troodon]

In Jesus's time nobody traveled such distances unless it was an entire army looking to invade, conquer etc. A common man would certainly not have traveled further than a couple of hundred kilometres at most and that too would have been an extraordinary achievement. The sheer time and resources to achieve that would have been mind boggling.

If it is an important holy site, why would he not travel?

I am sure Egyptians, Algerians who might be even more far away from Mecca would have traveled there for Haj. If people could do Haj in 7th century, they could surely do Haj in 0 AD.

 

[DeadBall]

Since Jesus is a Prophet, did he ever visit Mecca to Pray?

Same can be asked of Moses, Jacob etc. They were just historical religious figures adopted by Islam. Also the Kaabah wasn't the Qiblah (The direction Muslims pray in) before but was the Masjid Al Aqsa.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Same can be asked of Moses, Jacob etc. They were just historical religious figures adopted by Islam. Also the Kaabah wasn't the Qiblah (The direction Muslims pray in) before but was the Masjid Al Aqsa.

The consensus among scholars is that Moses probably never existed and that the events of Exodus etc. were just stories written atleast a millenia after they purportedly happened.

 

[DeadBall]

The consensus among scholars is that Moses probably never existed and that the events of Exodus etc. were just stories written atleast a millenia after they purportedly happened.

Yeah, I was tempted to add "mythical" before historical religious figures but decided otherwise.

 

[Alam_dar]

whats the purpose of this thread ? whats the reason to create it ?

Purpose is Criticism and Discussion.

You have the basic Human Right to do the Tableegh/Preaching of Islam.

And I have the basic human right to criticize if I do not agree with it.

Problem is this that Muslims ask for their right for Tableegh, but themselves don't give the rights to others to criticize Islam.


See, you Muslims preaching us that Abraham and Ismael founded the city of Mecca thousands of years BC, and whole Arab was follower of Deen e Ibrahimi, and Prophet Muhammad and all Arabs are from the progeny of Abraham ... and all other stories.

But when you preach, then we have the full right to criticize and ask questions in light of History and Science. But you are not ready to give this right to us and only want to do one sided Tableegh.

i will attack OP if he dont give any source of it claims. just like what he do on other forums. claiming something without any source.
and if he provides a sources it will be from some anti-islamic sites.

Please show us if Proofs from Archaeology and History have been collected by anti-Islam website, then these Archaeological and Historical proofs become null and void.

Naturally Muslim websites themselves are not going to collect the Archaeological and Historical Proofs.


Therefore, we are giving you ample chance that:


(1) There are thousands of inscriptions found in Arabia along with tons of other archaeological proofs.
Simply bring us ONE inscription where name of Abraham, or Abrahim Allah, or Ismael is written.


(2) There were many ancient Roman/Greek/Iranian historians (many centuries before Islam) who wrote about cities of Arabia, their kings, the tribes there, their temples, their religion. Why then none of them knew any Mecca (while according to Muslims Mecca was the MOST Popular city of Arabia since the time of Abraham as thousands of Arabs went for Hajj every year.
Moreover, these historians were also unable to find any Abrahamic Allah or Deen Ibrahimi in whole Arabia.

So, ball is in your court. Just bring the name of single ancient Historian who was aware of any Abrahamic Allah in Arabia.

 

[Alam_dar]

Never heard of #3

Yes sir, please ask for the Proofs and I would be happy to bring them.

(1) Romans sent an expedition to the Western and Southern Arabia (Trade Route) in 30 BC.
Famous historian and geographer "STRABO" was himself present in this expedition.
He recorded all the cities from North of this trade route to the south till Yemen, but neither he knew about any Mecca, nor he heard any thing about Abrahamic Allah or Abraham or Ismael.


http://rrimedia.org/Resources/Articles/the-romans-explore-western-and-southern-arabia

The Romans Exploration of Western and Southern Arabia



(2) And then there are many other Greek/Roman historians who were from 300 years BC to 300 years AC, but none of them know about any Mecca or any deen e Ibrahimi in Arab.

http://rrimedia.org/Resources/Artic...not-have-been-built-before-the-4th-century-ad


I am unable to copy/paste these 2 studies here while they are huge, and reference have been provided for each and every statement (especially the 2nd link).

Any one can read it and then can do his own research if the provided references are true or not, or the Muslims were every able to provide a single proof which contradicts the above mentioned thousands of proofs.