Brian Lara or Sachin Tendulkar as Test match batter?

[Fanboy375]

Now looks like we have developed some sort of a pattern here. On the days of live international cricket, we blame Bumrah.

And the days in between two series when there is no cricket match, we go back to Sachin bashing.

Not sure why are we discussing Sachin vs Lara in 2025? It has been unanimously accepted that Sachin is the 2nd greatest batsman of all time. Unless a player comes and break all his record alone and not in instalment's, no one can or will ever surpass him.

This picture still hurting some people I guess

View attachment 149439

Bradman once said to his wife this kid bats like me.

 

[Buffet]

Yeah it was a good knock and will live in Indians fans memory. Epic comeback after out for duck in second innings.

Again this is probably due to my own limitations but I haven't seen Sachin stand out performance during my cricket watching time but I caveat this with I watch series mainly in England and Pakistan until recently where due to decline of Pakistan I watch more countries.

Maybe he did have them. But I always remember someone else scoring big and Sachin also cashing in alongside when it came to big games or wins.

I did not see all SRT's knocks like I followed Wasim/Bumrah etc, but some of them I remember where he was a lone warrior or main person in fightback. I have to look at tests to provide details, but just remember him standing up as the lone warrior/main person.

Some lone warrior kncoks,

122 in Birmingham - 2nd highest was tail slogging to get 50 runs.
116 in Melborne - 2nd highest .... 40 odd runs test
114 at WACA - 2nd highest ... 40 odd runs in test
111 in Johanesburg - 2nd highest ... 40 odd runs in test
160 in Hamilton - 2nd highest score by in test his team mates was 72


Some main batsmen knocks,

155 in Bloemfontein - 2nd highest score in test by team mates was 105
169 in Cape town - 2nd highest score in test by his team mate was 115
154 in Sydney - 2nd highest ... 105 in test
146 in Cape town - 2nd highest ... 90 something

I think if you watched mainly Eng matches then Dravid was excellent in Eng. Often SRT and Dravid had good series in Eng. That may have given you that impression, In Aus and SA - no other Indian bastmen were scoring like SRT. In SA , I saw all innings by SRT, simply a class apart.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I did not see all SRT's knocks like I followed Wasim/Bumrah etc, but some of them I remember where he was a lone warrior or main person in fightback. I have to look at tests to provide details, but just remember him standing up as the lone warrior/main person.

Some lone warrior kncoks,

122 in Birmingham - 2nd highest was tail slogging to get 50 runs.
116 in Melborne - 2nd highest .... 40 odd runs test
114 at WACA - 2nd highest ... 40 odd runs in test
111 in Johanesburg - 2nd highest ... 40 odd runs in test
160 in Hamilton - 2nd highest score by in test his team mates was 72


Some main batsmen knocks,

155 in Bloemfontein - 2nd highest score in test by team mates was 105
169 in Cape town - 2nd highest score in test by his team mate was 115
154 in Sydney - 2nd highest ... 105 in test
146 in Cape town - 2nd highest ... 90 something

I think if you watched mainly Eng matches then Dravid was excellent in Eng. Often SRT and Dravid had good series in Eng. That may have given you that impression, In Aus and SA - no other Indian bastmen were scoring like SRT. In SA , I saw all innings by SRT, simply a class apart.

Capetown knock and his partnership with Azharuddin was one for the ages. They combined at 58/5 they added 222 runs in 40 overs or more. That was a good scoring rate even in one dayers. Azharuddin was in seriously poor form back in those days. There was one Eden Gardens test match prior to this series which is where he turned his forutnes around against that very same opposition.So this contest was even more spicy as he once again thrashed Lance Klusner. But Sachin's knock of 169 was breath taking. As breath taking as the catch that got rid of Sachin there. One legged catch on the boundary that was heading for six.

Bloemfotnein knock was Sehwag's debut test where he made 105 at no.7

 

[Fanboy375]

Advantages:
Sachin:
•better ave vs Aus
•better ave vs Eng
•good vs 90s WI
•better ave vs SA
Lara:
•faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•good vs Murali
Disadvantages:
Sachin:
•didn't faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•played too much vs weak 90s NZ bowling
Lara:
•didn't faced good bowlers vs 2000s pak
•faced too many matches vs weak Eng bowling
•didn't faced strong late 2000s SA bowling
•bad vs average Ind bowling
•big difference between away vs home record

@Buffet @jnaveen1980 @Ab Fan Thought on this

 

[jnaveen1980]

Advantages:
Sachin:
•better ave vs Aus
•better ave vs Eng
•good vs 90s WI
•better ave vs SA
Lara:
•faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•good vs Murali
Disadvantages:
Sachin:
•didn't faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•played too much vs weak 90s NZ bowling
Lara:
•didn't faced good bowlers vs 2000s pak
•faced too many matches vs weak Eng bowling
•didn't faced strong late 2000s SA bowling
•bad vs average Ind bowling
•big difference between away vs home record

@Buffet @jnaveen1980 @Ab Fan Thought on this

Lara always says Tendulkar is few miles ahead of him. Very humble guy. There was one point he made about Kohli and smith which is so true

Brian Lara: Sachin Tendulkar and I’d laugh at people comparing us | Off the field News - Times of India

Off the field News: There are very few batting records that Brian Lara didn’t make his own during a stellar 17-year international cricket career. It has been over a decad

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Lara finds the comparisons quite unnecessary. “I actually don’t see the reason for it,” he says with a laugh, adding, “I don’t think Kohli is sitting down waiting to play a Test series and worrying what Steve Smith is doing in another part of the world. You play for your country and you try to do the best. The comparisons are healthy maybe for the media and the fans. But I don’t think any cricketer pays much attention to it

 

[Buffet]

Advantages:
Sachin:
•better ave vs Aus
•better ave vs Eng
•good vs 90s WI
•better ave vs SA
Lara:
•faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•good vs Murali
Disadvantages:
Sachin:
•didn't faced peak Wasim and Waqar
•played too much vs weak 90s NZ bowling
Lara:
•didn't faced good bowlers vs 2000s pak
•faced too many matches vs weak Eng bowling
•didn't faced strong late 2000s SA bowling
•bad vs average Ind bowling
•big difference between away vs home record

@Buffet @jnaveen1980 @Ab Fan Thought on this

Batmen will have pros and cons. It's too much to compare all factors. Away is very good short cut and it's pretty accurate if players played in same periods.

I am not sure, we should be listing facing peak Wasim/Waqar as advatange for Lara. That would be good to point out if he had scored some tons against them. Lara was not that good agasint greats who could crank it up. I don't think he ever got to 3 digits in test formats when Wasim/Waqar/Donald played. I could be wrong, I don't recall him scoring a ton.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I agree with some of the list. I haven't watched enough of those matches to see it all. I am always open to my viewpoint being changed and such types of analysis are good to challenge your own thinking

From a fan perspective one of the most impactful innings on me personally is when Sehwag hit 300 against us lol that would be top of my impact list.I do remember Lara 153 and the aftermath of it quite well though.

I will struggle to make list of 25 most impactful knocks but will try it as an exercise when I have some time free.

However my conclusion about Tendulkar ( from what I have seen) is that he usually scored when others scored big to win matches or scored in draws losses a lot when nothing was at stake. I have seen this in England quite a bit where I watch most of cricket and in test series against Pakistan.

I would be interested to read your top 25 list if you complete it.

Pakistanis have always been distastefully biased against Sachin so I tend to ignore their comments about him. All these years, having interacted with fans from every cricket playing nation, i have rarely ever heard these kind of comments about him from other fans. Sachin was by some distance our best all format batter throughout his career. Bias is when people tend to remember the failures, the way Pakistanis describe Sachin it feels he averages 18 with the bat. The guy averages 55 something over a 200 tests career, he was incredibly successful everywhere he played and against 3-4 generations of bowling attacks literally during his career and across both the formats. Bowlers win majority of matches and that W/L ratio changes significantly for Sachin if you give him a Bumrah, Shami combo.

I can give so many examples but 2004 Sydney test match with the BGT tied 1-1, should have went in our favour with Sachin scoring a 241 if he played with Bumrah, Siraj, Ashwin then. I can remember too many such great knocks of him he genuinely deserved to be in the winning side if others contributed.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I would be interested to read your top 25 list if you complete it.

Pakistanis have always been distastefully biased against Sachin so I tend to ignore their comments about him. All these years, having interacted with fans from every cricket playing nation, i have rarely ever heard these kind of comments about him from other fans. Sachin was by some distance our best all format batter throughout his career. Bias is when people tend to remember the failures, the way Pakistanis describe Sachin it feels he averages 18 with the bat. The guy averages 55 something over a 200 tests career, he was incredibly successful everywhere he played and against 3-4 generations of bowling attacks literally during his career and across both the formats. Bowlers win majority of matches and that W/L ratio changes significantly for Sachin if you give him a Bumrah, Shami combo.

I can give so many examples but 2004 Sydney test match with the BGT tied 1-1, should have went in our favour with Sachin scoring a 241 if he played with Bumrah, Siraj, Ashwin then. I can remember too many such great knocks of him he genuinely deserved to be in the winning side if others contributed.

He averages 53 you are confusing with Kallis 55 average.

When you worship someone the way that Indians worship Sachin you will feel aggrieved when someone disagrees and feel it's due to bitterness or distasteful bias. However this is due to your own pro Sachin bias rather than anything else.

Indians are the only ones who denigrate their own players to make Sachin look better. For example Dravid was probably one of the best ever visiting batsman to England and much better than Sachin here. Yet when we mention this we are described as jealous.

Pakistanis don't describe Sachin as averaging 18. They just describe that perhaps Brian Lara was better than him. This isn't the same as completely underrating his career.

Yes It's a shame he never played with Bumrah but alas we can only judge a player on his career and not on hypothetical.

 

[Fanboy375]

Many people don't know but WI pitch during early 90s was flatter and more spin friendly.Late 90s they became bouncy and had unpredictable movement of bal causing batsman trouble.As evident by batting ave 1990-95 was 28.8 but it went down to 26.2 for all teams batting there.Early 90s Lara batting average was higher than later 90s Lara.

 

[anikrc1]

Post 1970's batsmen
tier 1: viv sachin lara smith
tier 2 greg chappell ponting sangakkara
tier 3 gavaskar border miandad steve waugh kallis dravid younis root.
I think only these 14 batsmen are atgs post 1970s

 

[Fanboy375]

Post 1970's batsmen
tier 1: viv sachin lara smith
tier 2 greg chappell ponting sangakkara
tier 3 gavaskar border miandad steve waugh kallis dravid younis root.
I think only these 14 batsmen are atgs post 1970s

Gav should be tier 1.As an opener you face best bowlers also unlike others he didn't have helper because Ind batting was bad

 

[Buffet]

Post 1970's batsmen
tier 1: viv sachin lara smith
tier 2 greg chappell ponting sangakkara
tier 3 gavaskar border miandad steve waugh kallis dravid younis root.
I think only these 14 batsmen are atgs post 1970s

Stands out in tier 3.

Anyone, almost a guranteed spot in all time world XI, belongs in tier 1. Gavasker will certainly take one spot out of 4-5 top order bastmen playing in XI. Rest looks mostly fine even though I may change a bit by putting more names or replace some names if you want to keep it to 14 names.

Smith does belong in tier 1 with others. I did not see Viv, but I saw other 2.

 

[Hitman]

LOL, asking random Pakistanis their opinion on Sachin Tendulkar is just as fruitful as asking a random Indian their opinion on a certain narcissist

 

[Fanboy375]

Gavaskar was good Aus,WI and Pak he ave 51.66,65.45 and 56.45 when these 3 teams during 70s and early had bowling average of 28.88,31.11 and 31.38 which are 1st,3rd and 4th best bowling

 

[BCCI-Enforcer]

Sachin is named the god of player for a reason and Bradman himself said Sachin is better.

 

[Ted123]

Those who have watched their careers fully and followed their careers know that Lara was a better batsman comfortably till 2007. After that Tendulkar peaked again and did well and then declined in final years to retire.

Lara was better no doubt. India weren’t real deal in 90s so Tendulkar could cash in.

 

[atreus]

Lara simply had a huge issue with extreme pace after the 1995 series, from 1995-2000 he wasn't able to score against South Africa and Pakistan for that very reason, pterygium usually destroys your reflexes and Lara didn't quite have Viv's reflexes to bypass this. Thus he endlessly struggled with people like Bond and Donald

Sachin did not have this issue, Lara was better against spin though.

 

[atreus]

Post 1970's batsmen
tier 1: viv sachin lara smith
tier 2 greg chappell ponting sangakkara
tier 3 gavaskar border miandad steve waugh kallis dravid younis root.
I think only these 14 batsmen are atgs post 1970s

Tier 1 — Viv, Sachin, Lara, Smith, Gavaskar

Tier 1.5 — Gavaskar, maybe Border?

Tier 2 — Root, Ponting, Waugh, Kallis, Dravid, Sangakkara

Tier 3 — Miandad, Younis, Williamson, Lloyd etc

 

[Buffet]

Tier 1 — Viv, Sachin, Lara, Smith, Gavaskar

Tier 1.5 — Gavaskar, maybe Border?

Tier 2 — Root, Ponting, Waugh, Kallis, Dravid, Sangakkara

Tier 3 — Miandad, Younis, Williamson, Lloyd etc

In tier 1.5 - Greg Chappel?

I think by mistake you have Gavaskar in tier 1 in your list in addition of tier 1.5. I think you meant to put him in 1.5.

 

[atreus]

In tier 1.5 - Greg Chappel?

I think by mistake you have Gavaskar in tier 1 in your list in addition of tier 1.5. I think you meant to put him in 1.5.

Yeah Gavaskar should be tier 1.5 for me

I think Chappel is either the peak of 2 or lowest in 1.5, his away record is kinda fraudulent, he very much is the batting variant of Trueman for me (Trueman a bit better), even his brother thinks Greg had a problem with spin but his work in Australia and West Indies is of absolute top quality so maybe 1.5 works

 

[big_gamer007]

Now looks like we have developed some sort of a pattern here. On the days of live international cricket, we blame Bumrah.

And the days in between two series when there is no cricket match, we go back to Sachin bashing.

Not sure why are we discussing Sachin vs Lara in 2025? It has been unanimously accepted that Sachin is the 2nd greatest batsman of all time. Unless a player comes and break all his record alone and not in instalment's, no one can or will ever surpass him.

This picture still hurting some people I guess

View attachment 149439

Sachin is the greatest batsman of all time not 2nd greatest.

Bradman is the greatest cricketer.

There is a big difference between being the greatest batsman and greatest cricketer.

Lara is the second greatest batsman of all time. Viv third and so on and so forth.

 

[Fanboy375]

Who does Lara has poor ave in away.I would pick Sachin over Lara in away match.Also Lara unlike Ten played to match vs average Eng bowling to boost his average

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Whilst Smith has volume of runs he's won 1 test series in Asia as a player vs pakistan. No series win vs india, Sri Lanka of Bangladesh.

No away Ashes series wins

1 win out of 2 series in South Africa.

2 wins out of 2 series in new zealand

Thats a pretty abysmal record for a player who scores heavily. The reality is there is no legacy defining Away series win on his record as a player.

Who cares about test series wins in Bangladesh? Is that legacy defining? What a joke of a post. Why should series winning be up to Smith?