Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

[Ab Fan]

<B>On that basis Babar has done much more than Kohli in both ODIs and T20s in terms of average and records at 25</B> and same number of matches but doesn’t necessarily means he will finish as high as Kohli just as his test record being a inferior to Kohli after 22 tests doesnt mean much.

What was Kohli averaging in ODIs at 25?

 

[saeed5646]

But u have interest when he praises Babar aka Tom Dik etc . Irony died 1000 death already.

I don't know which part is so difficult for you to understand All i said ponting second my opnion about "brisbane pitch "which was not flat and said it is pretty similar to eng and sa pitches

If he rates babar azam or any tom dick it is his personal choice which we should respect. Any one is not entitled to agree with it but questioning his playing experience about pitches is laughable because he knows better than most about aus pitches

 

[Abdullah719]

What was Kohli averaging in ODIs at 25?

At exactly the same age as Babar right now, Kohli was averaging 51.5, SR 88.8. Babar's current average is 54.2, SR 87.1.

One major difference is in the number of matches. India play so much more, thus at this point of his career, Kohli had played 125 ODIs - 51 more than Babar's 74. He had 17/28 100s/50s in comparison to Babar's 11/15.

Anyway, it's worth noting that barring a few posters, most Pakistanis on this thread are of the view that he has the potential to be a part of some 'Fab' group rather than already being at that level.

 

[Sir Alex]

What was Kohli averaging in ODIs at 25?

Actually I was surprised to note that Kohli was well established by 25 yrs of age in ODIs. He had scored around 5200 runs @ 52 average by start of 2014.

So even as a whole batsman Kohli was leaps ahead of Babar at 25 yrs although as I said before not in top league in test cricket.

 

[Mesozoic]

On that basis Babar has done much more than Kohli in both ODIs and T20s in terms of average and records at 25 and same number of matches but doesn’t necessarily means he will finish as high as Kohli just as his test record being a inferior to Kohli after 22 tests doesnt mean much.

No. Babar has done nothing more than what Kohli did at 25. Not even close.

At 25 (Until 2014), Kohli had 20 odi 100s and won the player of the tournament in a wt20. Those 20 hundreds were almost all match winning.

Babar is a great player. No problem with that. But you have to accept that he has mostly stat padded in ODIs against Sri Lanka, West Indies etc in the UAE. Has only one match winning hundred against a top 5 team. Don't know how you got to a conclusion that he has done "much more" than Kohli at 25. He hasn't even reached half of Kohli's achievements at 25.

 

[Ab Fan]

At exactly the same age as Babar right now, Kohli was averaging 51.5, SR 88.8. Babar's current average is 54.2, SR 87.1.

One major difference is in the number of matches. India play so much more, thus at this point of his career, Kohli had played 125 ODIs - 51 more than Babar's 74. He had 17/28 100s/50s in comparison to Babar's 11/15.

Anyway, it's worth noting that barring a few posters, most Pakistanis on this thread are of the view that he has the potential to be a part of some 'Fab' group rather than already being at that level.

Good point. I would also like to add the 'Fab' group needs a more proper demonstration as two of them are clearly a level or two ahead of the other two. Smith and Kohli have in them to go down as among the greatest ever, Kohli as an all-format player, while Smith as test batsmen.

Root and Williamson are more like great test batters for their respective countries, which we will find a lot in any given era.

 

[Relic]

No. Babar has done nothing more than what Kohli did at 25. Not even close.

At 25 (Until 2014), Kohli had 20 odi 100s and won the player of the tournament in a wt20. Those 20 hundreds were almost all match winning.

Babar is a great player. No problem with that. But you have to accept that he has mostly stat padded in ODIs against Sri Lanka, West Indies etc in the UAE. Has only one match winning hundred against a top 5 team. Don't know how you got to a conclusion that he has done "much more" than Kohli at 25. He hasn't even reached half of Kohli's achievements at 25.

Funny you say that Babar's centuries were against Sri lanka, west indies etc.
Little did you know most of kohli's centuries until the end of 2014 were against:
Sri Lanka, west indies, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh

 

[Relic]

No. Babar has done nothing more than what Kohli did at 25. Not even close.

At 25 (Until 2014), Kohli had 20 odi 100s and won the player of the tournament in a wt20. Those 20 hundreds were almost all match winning.

Babar is a great player. No problem with that. But you have to accept that he has mostly stat padded in ODIs against Sri Lanka, West Indies etc in the UAE. Has only one match winning hundred against a top 5 team. Don't know how you got to a conclusion that he has done "much more" than Kohli at 25. He hasn't even reached half of Kohli's achievements at 25.

13 out of 21 of kohli's centuries until the end of 2014 were against teams like Sri Lanka, west indies, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Here are the stats:
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerYears_ODI.asp?PlayerID=3600

On top of that kohli had played way more matches than babar has at 25 so his hundreds being more doesn't mean anything

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Kohli has made runs everywhere, this I agree. Kohli as also played very knocks in SENA, I agree. But you can't compare like this. SENA teams and India are the 5 main teams with now even South Africa finding it hard to remain in the top teams. So these are basically the performances that count.

You can't say Smith scoring a hundred in England or South Africa is like Kohli scoring a hundred in SL.

The other point is that Smith had the series of his life in India or rank turners with 3 hundreds, and in response Kohli could manage just around 50 runs in the three tests he played. Even in India Smith has proved to be better than Kohli.
Let alone pace and swing, Kohli is yet to play a great innings on a turner. He failed against Swann back when England has a good team. He failed again when SA toured with a good team (Amla, ABDV in form) and failed miserably again against Steven Smith's Australia in India.

Even at home he has not convinced.

For me Kohli is better, at this point of time, Kohli is better than Root/Williamson but the gap between Smith and Kohli is way way bigger than the gap between Kohli and Root/Williamson.

Why shouldn't i compare like that.

Asian teams bar india are at an all time low and still smith has a grand total of 1 match winning knock in last 4 years.
What does that tell u about him.?
By this logic, Who has scored more soft runs, kohli in Sena or smith in asia.? Atleast kohli has won a series in sena.

Secondly
Aus toured ind in 2013 also and kohli avgd above 50 in that tour, he has dominated rangana herath(greatest spinner of this decade).
In 2012 kohli was a youngster noob in test and he had zero experience, inspite of that he scored a century vs swann.

You are just cherrypicking some rare series where he failed.
If you want examples of kohlis batting in seaming conditions you can check his batting in eng and south africa tours.
Theres more than enough evidence.

Babar azam becomes a part of fab four after two centuries while kohli still has to prove himself in india even after averaging 65 (in india).

 

[tyron_woodley]

Why shouldn't i compare like that.

Asian teams bar india are at an all time low and still smith has a grand total of 1 match winning knock in last 4 years.
What does that tell u about him.?
By this logic, Who has scored more soft runs, kohli in Sena or smith in asia.? Atleast kohli has won a series in sena.

Secondly
Aus toured ind in 2013 also and kohli avgd above 50 in that tour, he has dominated rangana herath(greatest spinner of this decade).
In 2012 kohli was a youngster noob in test and he had zero experience, inspite of that he scored a century vs swann.

You are just cherrypicking some rare series where he failed.
If you want examples of kohlis batting in seaming conditions you can check his batting in eng and south africa tours.
Theres more than enough evidence.

Babar azam becomes a part of fab four after two centuries while kohli still has to prove himself in india even after averaging 65 (in india).

honestly I think kohli doesn't even like playing in india cause he knows even the reserve players and state players will be too much for away teams including top teams like England and australia.
he doesn't care. seems way too nonchalant in india. When he plays away, he seems possessed like a man on a mission to silence his haters.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Why shouldn't i compare like that.

Asian teams bar india are at an all time low and still smith has a grand total of 1 match winning knock in last 4 years.
What does that tell u about him.?
By this logic, Who has scored more soft runs, kohli in Sena or smith in asia.? Atleast kohli has won a series in sena.

Secondly
Aus toured ind in 2013 also and kohli avgd above 50 in that tour, he has dominated rangana herath(greatest spinner of this decade).
In 2012 kohli was a youngster noob in test and he had zero experience, inspite of that he scored a century vs swann.

You are just cherrypicking some rare series where he failed.
If you want examples of kohlis batting in seaming conditions you can check his batting in eng and south africa tours.
Theres more than enough evidence.

Babar azam becomes a part of fab four after two centuries while kohli still has to prove himself in india even after averaging 65 (in india).

you brought up a very valid point though. SENA is to smith what Asian teams are to kohli. Very true.

south africa and new zealand play in similar conditons to australia where bounce is prevalent. Less so in N.Z where there is ample swing but similar pitches overall. It is far easier for smith to get acclimated to SENA pitches than kohli and vice versa with the Asian nations.

smith dint perform vs Bangladesh nor did he perform vs pakistan. He did perform in a losing cause vs india.

kohli did perform vs australia, south africa and England. He also won a series in australia albeit vs a team devoid of smith and warner.

Still believe smith is the better player because he performed vs india in India and at home. Kohli played well away in australia but failed at home. So in conclusion advantage goes to smith.

In saying that, kohli was a beast in s.africa and that s.afrixan team had ABD, steyn morkel and rabada in the team. Smith failed there vs rabada.

 

[JaDed]

Whats with changing the age and taking stats, Sachin at 25 would seem like GOAT to you guys then considering his test avg and all and comparing the avg of others that played with him.

Babar clearly has the potential and he has the right technique but not there yet, in 2 years..

 

[Mesozoic]

13 out of 21 of kohli's centuries until the end of 2014 were against teams like Sri Lanka, west indies, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Here are the stats:
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerYears_ODI.asp?PlayerID=3600

On top of that kohli had played way more matches than babar has at 25 so his hundreds being more doesn't mean anything

Funny you say that Babar's centuries were against Sri lanka, west indies etc.
Little did you know most of kohli's centuries until the end of 2014 were against:
Sri Lanka, west indies, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh

I'm pretty sure you started watching Cricket in 2017. No other reason you wouldn't know that Sri Lanka of 2012-13 was leagues above Sri Lanka of 2017.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He is a disciplined consistent batsman. Will keep scoring runs. Dravid even at his peak was never bracketed with Tendulkar/Lara. Moyo scored close to 2000 test runs in a calendar year. Never bracketed with Lara//Tendulkar/Ponting. Babar has to do significantly a lot more to join a group "fab 4" "fab 5" or whatever. Honestly why is it mandatory he must be part of 4. Amla was never part of any "fab 4" either. ABDV was still around when fab 4 was used. Henry Nichols, Latham both averages 58 in the last couple of years. Mayank Agarwal has outscored Babar in the last 2 years. I still remember the days how Moyo used to be ridiculed for scoring 100s in a nothing to lose scenario. How are Babar's runs any different.

He will definitely become one of the greatest Pakistan has produced. Bit like how Inzamam was playing in the era of Tendulkar/Lara.

 

[Relic]

I'm pretty sure you started watching Cricket in 2017. No other reason you wouldn't know that Sri Lanka of 2012-13 was leagues above Sri Lanka of 2017.

2011 Sri Lanka was leagues above the current Sri Lankan team. I remember watching Pakistan play them.
However they were still a mid table ranked team
They were no world beaters.

 

[Varun]

Babar has reached Pujara's level now by my scale.

 

[Slog]

21 tests fab 4? What about Pujara, Rahane, Labuschane, Karuna,Latham,

Fab 4 is not just numbers. It’s also due to potential which Babar has a lot of and more than the players you have mentioned imo.

This Fab 4 group was formed early in all these batsmen’s careers due to the special talent they had.

 

[Relic]

21 tests fab 4? What about Pujara, Rahane, Labuschane, Karuna,Latham,

Labu? On what merit?
The guy scored his first hundred.
He doesn't even average 45 yet. He's barely played 10 tests.

 

[Relic]

ATG is a bit much, I think only Kohli, Smith and Stokes are there from this generation.

Going to be an ATG
Not that he already is.
Also, Kohli shouldn't be in that category.
He's a GOAT

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Babar doesn't even average 40..let him first get his average upto 40 or 45 then we can talk..I would rate him highly only when he gets his average to 50..I think that would be tough for him but if he manages he can be classified as a truly fab 4 batsman

 

[jnaveen1980]

Fab 4 is not just numbers. It’s also due to potential which Babar has a lot of and more than the players you have mentioned imo.

This Fab 4 group was formed early in all these batsmen’s careers due to the special talent they had.

How is his potential above Agarwal, Labu, Prithvi Shaw.

 

[Relic]

How is his potential above Agarwal, Labu, Prithvi Shaw.

Who even is Shaw?
And how can you judge him when he hasn't even played against any good team yet??
Lol

 

[sjahmed23]

Don't care if babar is considered elite or not, he just needs to win us matches.

 

[sunny85]

I don't know which part is so difficult for you to understand All i said ponting second my opnion about "brisbane pitch "which was not flat and said it is pretty similar to eng and sa pitches

If he rates babar azam or any tom dick it is his personal choice which we should respect. Any one is not entitled to agree with it but questioning his playing experience about pitches is laughable because he knows better than most about aus pitches

What a joke. U have 1 team scoring close to 600 , another close to 350 in 3rd innings. There was no overcast condition , or any lateral movement . This was a belter of a wicket. Scorecard is there for everyone to see.

It was failure of your batting in 1st innings that you lost the match on a flat wicket with toss advantage. There is no seam movement of Eng or variable bounce seen in SA wicket.

Had it been 250 wicket , i would have agreed.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Who even is Shaw?
And how can you judge him when he hasn't even played against any good team yet??
Lol

Harsh about Shaw though.

Prithvi Shaw if he keeps himself out of trouble will also scale great heights.

Agarwal and Labu are a tier below though.

 

[JaDed]

Fab 4 is not just numbers. It’s also due to potential which Babar has a lot of and more than the players you have mentioned imo.

This Fab 4 group was formed early in all these batsmen’s careers due to the special talent they had.

In that logic there is only one and that is Babar Azam.. because at his age no one as yet has shown that potential..
fab 4 are kinda older..except Root..

 

[JaDed]

Harsh about Shaw though.

Prithvi Shaw if he keeps himself out of trouble will also scale great heights.

Agarwal and Labu are a tier below though.

Too much attitude, think Gill will beat him coz character, hope he proves me wrong as we need both.

 

[Relic]

Too much attitude, think Gill will beat him coz character, hope he proves me wrong as we need both.

I just watched a documentary about him which was made when he was 15.
The guy scored 500+ in an u15 match. Lol.

How have I not heard of this guy??

Btw, you're talking about his attitude. What has he done that makes you think that?

I remember gill from the NZ series. Didn't perform but looks like a good bat

 

[Hyperion66]

Good one! Put one of them in front of your eyes.

Sorry can't do that, your delusional posts are just too fun to miss, keep them coming.

 

[Hyperion66]

13 out of 21 of kohli's centuries until the end of 2014 were against teams like Sri Lanka, west indies, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

Here are the stats:
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerYears_ODI.asp?PlayerID=3600

On top of that kohli had played way more matches than babar has at 25 so his hundreds being more doesn't mean anything

Please don't bring SL into that mix, that SL wasn't todays minnow level SL that Babar used to pad up his stats. Kohli bashed a peak Malinga for fun chasing 340+ something I doubt Babar will able to do even today against a fat Malinga.

 

[Hyperion66]

Pakistani logic 101: How to save face from a losing debate? Bring talent, potential, aestheticism and every other mythical intangible stuff into discussion.

 

[Relic]

Please don't bring SL into that mix, that SL wasn't todays minnow level SL that Babar used to pad up his stats. Kohli bashed a peak Malinga for fun chasing 340+ something I doubt Babar will able to do even today against a fat Malinga.

Stop being delusional.
They were no world betters in 2012-13 either.
Also, babar has only 3 centuries against them out of his 10/11
If he gets more opportunities to play against the top team I'm sure his hundreds column would have a lot more in them.
Kohli by 2014 had played around 40 more matches than babar has played.

 

[Relic]

Stop being delusional.
They were no world beaters in 2012-13 either.
Also, babar has only 3 centuries against them out of his 10/11
If he gets more opportunities to play against the top *teams* I'm sure his hundreds column would have a lot more in them.
Kohli by 2014 had played around 40 more matches than babar has played.

Beaters*

 

[Hyperion66]

Stop being delusional.
They were no world betters in 2012-13 either.
Also, babar has only 3 centuries out of his 10/11 against them.
If he gets more opportunities to play against the top team I'm sure his hundreds column would have a lot more in them.
Kohli by 2014 had played around 40 more matches than babar has played.

How old are you? 12? If you really think a SL with Malinga, Dilshan, Jaya and Sanga is same as today's SL powered by mighty Sanuka and Bhanuka all I can do for you is pray and hope that you get well soon

 

[Relic]

How old are you? 12? If you really think a SL with Malinga, Dilshan, Jaya and Sanga is same as today's SL powered by mighty Sanuka and Bhanuka all I can do for you is pray and hope that you get well soon

Learn how to read mate.
I said they were no world beaters in 2012/13. They were a decent team but not ranked 1,2 or 3. They were a mid table ranked team.

They were 5th in the odi rankings in 2012 and were 6th when babar played them (scored his hundreds)

Not much difference.

Now they've regressed a lot.
You can't just pick and choose

 

[Technics 1210]

Whats with changing the age and taking stats, Sachin at 25 would seem like GOAT to you guys then considering his test avg and all and comparing the avg of others that played with him.

Babar clearly has the potential and he has the right technique but not there yet, in 2 years..

Yet when it came to ODIs it took SRT over 70 ODis to register his first ODI century.

 

[Hyperion66]

Learn how to read mate.
I said they were no world beaters in 2012/13. They were a decent team but not ranked 1,2 or 3. They were a mid table ranked team.

They were 5th in the odi rankings in 2012 and were 6th when babar played them (scored his hundreds)

Not much difference.

Now they've regressed a lot.
You can't just pick and choose

You need to watch more cricket mate. That's what happens when you watch your cricket through cricinfo stats. Teams were a lot more competitive even then, SL defeated both India and Pak to win Asia cup and won the wt20 too. Only a kid who just started watching cricket of late will compare the two. Hell even Pak was a mid table team back then not some record breaking borderline minnow they had become under Mickey, Pak of 2012/13 would beat current Pak team 8 out of ten times despite both of them hovering around the similar spots in the ranking. That Pak team defeated India in India and SA in SA that your current team can't even dream of.

Point is you never resort to juvenile arguments by blindly comparing teams from two different time solely based on ranking, no matter how meagre the time difference is. In cricket it doesn't take a month for a team to fall from grace.

You are a good poster in general and I am surprised such poor logics are presented by you. My suggestion is you enjoy your stay here and don't get too carried away by trolling and banters, it goes both ways, we endured some of the harshest trolling here from CT defeat till Asia cup. Trust me you will get your fair chance to bash me to bits with proper arguments. Just wait for the right time and don't join the mindless hype crowd here.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Who even is Shaw?
And how can you judge him when he hasn't even played against any good team yet??
Lol

That is pretty much applicable for Babar. He has not played enough to be bracketed with the other 4 guys. I don't deny he will go on to be one of the best Pakistan ever produced in the ranks of Inzamam, Moyo, Younis. But he is below the top tier at this point.

 

[Relic]

You need to watch more cricket mate. That's what happens when you watch your cricket through cricinfo stats. Teams were a lot more competitive even then, SL defeated both India and Pak to win Asia cup and won the wt20 too. Only a kid who just started watching cricket of late will compare the two. Hell even Pak was a mid table team back then not some record breaking borderline minnow they had become under Mickey, Pak of 2012/13 would beat current Pak team 8 out of ten times despite both of them hovering around the similar spots in the ranking. That Pak team defeated India in India and SA in SA that your current team can't even dream of.

Point is you never resort to juvenile arguments by blindly comparing teams from two different time solely based on ranking, no matter how meagre the time difference is. In cricket it doesn't take a month for a team to fall from grace.

You are a good poster in general and I am surprised such poor logics are presented by you. My suggestion is you enjoy your stay here and don't get too carried away by trolling and banters, it goes both ways, we endured some of the harshest trolling here from CT defeat till Asia cup. Trust me you will get your fair chance to bash me to bits with proper arguments. Just wait for the right time and don't join the mindless hype crowd here.

Lol.
Your interpretation of what I wrote is actually sad.

Anyways, you do you.

We'll just agree to disagree

 

[King_Kohli]

Stop being delusional.
They were no world betters in 2012-13 either.
Also, babar has only 3 centuries against them out of his 10/11
If he gets more opportunities to play against the top team I'm sure his hundreds column would have a lot more in them.
Kohli by 2014 had played around 40 more matches than babar has played.

How come They were no world betters

Sri Lankan cricket team in Australia in 2012–13:
Srilanka Against Aus in Aus 2012–13:
ODI series was drawn 2-2 and Sri Lanka won the T20I series 2-0.

T20 World Cup -Runner-up -2012
T20 World Cup -Winner -2014
Asia cup winner -2014

South African cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2013:
Sri Lanka won the 5-match series 4–1 against SA (ODI series)

New Zealand cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2013–14:
Sri Lanka won the 2-match series 1–0 (T20's)
3-match series drawn 1–1(ODI's)

Pakistani cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2012:
Sri Lanka won the 3-match series 1–0 (Tests)
Sri Lanka won the 5-match series 3–1 (ODI's)
2-match series drawn 1–1 (T20's)

 

[Relic]

That is pretty much applicable for Babar. He has not played enough to be bracketed with the other 4 guys. I don't deny he will go on to be one of the best Pakistan ever produced in the ranks of Inzamam, Moyo, Younis. But he is below the top tier at this point.

Obviously he's not top tier.
It's about these absurd comparisons.
On what merit can you compare Shaw or Labu with Babar?
You can't because those two haven't played enough international.cricket to be compared with a player who's been playing for 4 years.

 

[Relic]

How come They were no world betters

Sri Lankan cricket team in Australia in 2012–13:
Srilanka Against Aus in Aus 2012–13:
ODI series was drawn 2-2 and Sri Lanka won the T20I series 2-0.

T20 World Cup -Runner-up -2012
T20 World Cup -Winner -2014
Asia cup winner -2014

South African cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2013:
Sri Lanka won the 5-match series 4–1 against SA (ODI series)

New Zealand cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2013–14:
Sri Lanka won the 2-match series 1–0 (T20's)
3-match series drawn 1–1(ODI's)

Pakistani cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2012:
Sri Lanka won the 3-match series 1–0 (Tests)
Sri Lanka won the 5-match series 3–1 (ODI's)
2-match series drawn 1–1 (T20's)

You really had to highlight my typo didn't you?

 

[Hyperion66]

Lol.
Your interpretation of what I wrote is actually sad.

Anyways, you do you.

We'll just agree to disagree

I am cool with the sadness as long as you don't bring any childish arguments into discussion. Wait for the right moment, you will get your chance and I would be here to see how you utilize that. Untill then yeah let's just agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

It was a good century by Babar but it was soft runs, an Asad Shafiq special. We need these runs especially in first innings.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Obviously he's not top tier.
It's about these absurd comparisons.
On what merit can you compare Shaw or Labu with Babar?
You can't because those two haven't played enough international.cricket to be compared with a player who's been playing for 4 years.

That was just to point out how you cannot compare him yet with top tier players. This thread is about that right? With so many youngsters coming around there is no telling who will go on to become the next great. I honestly never expected Kohli to get to this level that too this quickly when he started his career. ame way Smith was a lower order batsman who could bowl a few leggies. Look here he is now. Next 2 years will give a fair idea of who is the next great player.

 

[Slog]

Please don't bring SL into that mix, that SL wasn't todays minnow level SL that Babar used to pad up his stats. Kohli bashed a peak Malinga for fun chasing 340+ something I doubt Babar will able to do even today against a fat Malinga.

This SL won test series in South Africa which no Asian side has ever done

 

[King_Kohli]

Please don't bring SL into that mix, that SL wasn't todays minnow level SL that Babar used to pad up his stats. Kohli bashed a peak Malinga for fun chasing 340+ .

He selectively ignoring Malinga

 

[Hyperion66]

This SL won test series in South Africa which no Asian side has ever done

Last I checked we were talking about limited overs cricket. No sane person would call today's SL test team a minnow cuz they are not.

 

[tyron_woodley]

This SL won test series in South Africa which no Asian side has ever done

no ABD
no steyn
no morkel

but a win is a win. nevermind you guys are talking about pakistan and Sri Lanka lol.

 

[Relic]

Last I checked we were talking about limited overs cricket. No sane person would call today's SL test team a minnow cuz they are not.

Would you say they're better or worse than Pakistan?

 

[Hyperion66]

He selectively ignoring Malinga

He fell into his own trap. How could someone compare Jaya, Sanga, Malinga's SL with the current lot is beyond me.

 

[Relic]

no ABD
no steyn
no morkel

but a win is a win. Also the same team smashed pakistan 3-0.

Is Steyn still a big player for you because whenever anyone brings up Babar's knock against Steyn you lot say that he's too old and that Babar's knock was nothing special?

Last time I checked, ABD and Morkel were retired. Why're they in your list??
You're clutching at straws in this regard.
SA were playing their best possible team

 

[tyron_woodley]

Would you say they're better or worse than Pakistan?

is there doubt? ofcourse pakistan is better. Pakistan's issue is consistency. When they show up, they are hard to beat.

I loved the 2014 series when younis absolutely wrecked the Aussies. dismantled them and that side had smith warner etc. They were lucky it was only a 2 test series.

Younis can't be replaced so easily. Pakistan still haven't filled that good left by younis yet.
Misbah too.

 

[Relic]

He fell into his own trap. How could someone compare Jaya, Sanga, Malinga's SL with the current lot is beyond me.

Like people compare the pre smith/warner ban aussie team with the team that played against ind in 2018...
But that's not the point of this thread and Aus had their top bowlers still playing

 

[tyron_woodley]

Is Steyn still a big player for you because whenever anyone brings up Babar's knock against Steyn you lot say that he's too old and that Babar's knock was nothing special?

Last time I checked, ABD and Morkel were retired. Why're they in your list??
You're clutching at straws in this regard.
SA were playing their best possible team

no i already said babar is a class player. I don't know what you guys are talking about lol. I was just saying that Sri Lanka beat a weakened s.african team.

 

[Hyperion66]

Would you say they're better or worse than Pakistan?

As a test team currently better than Pak, but won't be for long considering the resources and prospects that Pak has. Pak is a much better ODI team however. I don't really care about t20s, just use the stats to troll people lol. You lost to them in Pak cuz the pitches suited their stroke makers, could have been the opposite if the T20 series was held in UAE.

 

[Mobashir]

As a test team currently better than Pak, but won't be for long considering the resources and prospects that Pak has. Pak is a much better ODI team however. I don't really care about t20s, just use the stats to troll people lol. You lost to them in Pak cuz the pitches suited their stroke makers, could have been the opposite if the T20 series was held in UAE.

I don't rate the pakistani side at all but you are completely out of this world thinking the current Sri Lankan side is better than Pakistani side.

 

[Relic]

As a test team currently better than Pak, but won't be for long considering the resources and prospects that Pak has. Pak is a much better ODI team however. I don't really care about t20s, just use the stats to troll people lol. You lost to them in Pak cuz the pitches suited their stroke makers, could have been the opposite if the T20 series was held in UAE.

Fair enough. They are 10 points ahead of us and whitewashed the same SA time that we were whitewashed by so it's logical to say that they're better than us.
But I don't think they'll beat us in Pakistan. It should be an easy 2-0 win for us

 

[tyron_woodley]

Harsh about Shaw though.

Prithvi Shaw if he keeps himself out of trouble will also scale great heights.

Agarwal and Labu are a tier below though.

no. aggarwal is a beast. Dude already is showing what a class player he is. He just got drafted in late due to politics. best opener in the world right now. Already flattened a full strength aussie bowling attack in australia.

 

[Relic]

Fair enough. They are 10 points ahead of us and whitewashed the same SA team that we were whitewashed by so it's logical to say that they're better than us.
But I don't think they'll beat us in Pakistan. It should be an easy 2-0 win for us

Typo again lol
Really need to get another keyboard

 

[Kaka4pope]

He can be our Michael Clarke, top batter across all formats - probably not record breaker in any like potentially Smith in tests or Kohli in ODIs.

He looks a great bat, should probably be made test and odi skip, Rizwan as vice?

Shadab should be given t20 captaincy.

 

[dildilpak]

Some hyperbole in this thread.

Babar is the best Pak batsman- technically sound & surely, will be one day in top 3 - but is he there yet?

He has not yet won Pak a test in SENA nor has had a breakout tournament. Not even a century in SA or England - but thankfully he has time on his side. Considering Pujara won India a test series in Australia, he has far better claims over this parameter.

Only two test centuries - one home & one abroad. The one abroad was in a lost cause & couldn’t prevent an innings defeat. His conversion rate is also not that great so far. And no big hundreds either (understandable - considering his batting position 5/6)

A great record in ODi & T20s so far, but Rohit Sharma is far far better in white ball cricket & still has no claims for the ‘Fab’ category. Deny it all you want, but test cricket is still the final threshold for any cricketer.

The bottom-line is that Babar Azam (& Pak cricket) need to focus on Test cricket instead of white ball cricket like India/Kohli or NZ did post 2015 or so to be one of the greatest. He also needs to come up the batting order - if you are playing 5/6 more likely than not you are playing with the tail & your conversion rates will invariable suffer. Unfortunately till PCB invests in Test cricket, Babar cannot be in the Fab 3/4.

 

[JaDed]

I just watched a documentary about him which was made when he was 15.
The guy scored 500+ in an u15 match. Lol.

How have I not heard of this guy??

Btw, you're talking about his attitude. What has he done that makes you think that?

I remember gill from the NZ series. Didn't perform but looks like a good bat

Shaw already has a test century against windies at home.. not sure why you haven’t heard of him, was also prt of U-19 winning team , which was the best in years..

 

[Relic]

Shaw already has a test century against windies at home.. not sure why you haven’t heard of him, was also prt of U-19 winning team , which was the best in years..

Haven't really been following Ind cricket too much. Watched the NZ ind series, that's pretty much it.
Just did a bit more research on him and found out that he was in the Ind squad for the series against aus but got injured. Very unlucky. Missed out on a big opportunity to cement his place as an opener considering how dead the Aussie pitches were

 

[JaDed]

Haven't really been following Ind cricket too much. Watched the NZ ind series, that's pretty much it.
Just did a bit more research on him and found out that he was in the Ind squad for the series against aus but got injured. Very unlucky. Missed out on a big opportunity to cement his place as an opener considering how dead the Aussie pitches were

Actually the pitches were much better than 2014, much more result oriented and its ok Mayank came in then , which worked better for the winning test

Also Gill is improving everyday in domestic, his team nd prithvis team face off on 27th

 

[jnaveen1980]

He can be our Michael Clarke, top batter across all formats - probably not record breaker in any like potentially Smith in tests or Kohli in ODIs.

He looks a great bat, should probably be made test and odi skip, Rizwan as vice?

Shadab should be given t20 captaincy.

Who is the former great Pakistan cricketre he can be compared with

 

[JaDed]

Yet when it came to ODIs it took SRT over 70 ODis to register his first ODI century.

Yup, but it wasn't like he was a dud, plus those eras 100 wasn't as easy as its now..

 

[Hyperion66]

I don't rate the pakistani side at all but you are completely out of this world thinking the current Sri Lankan side is better than Pakistani side.

You are from an alternate reality if you think a team that whitewashed you at your home and whitewashed a much stronger team at their den that whitewashed you is not better than you.

You are always like this or making some extra efforts today?

 

[tyron_woodley]

You are from an alternate reality if you think a team that whitewashed you at your home and whitewashed a much stronger team at their den that whitewashed you is not better than you.

You are always like this or making some extra efforts today?

nah he is right. Matchup wise Lanka is an easier matchup for pak and they could win.

 

[geraltofrivia]

nah he is right. Matchup wise Lanka is an easier matchup for pak and they could win.

let's come back to this WHEN they win.

 

[BreadPakoda]

The bar for Kohli to be classified as a top bat was winning his side test matches outside Asia. I guess we have a different criteria for Babar.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Babar Azam averages 36.22 in test cricket. And there is no indication he will become great.

Pakistani fans are making a huge logical fallacy by showing earlier records of great players like Kohli.

Great players were not so great at the start of their careers DOES NOT IMPLY players who are not great at the start of their careers will become great.

This is a very common logical fallacy. I have a CS degree so I have studied logic in detail. X=>Y does not mean Y=>X. In this case X="Is a great player" Y="Was not a great player in the beginning"

If this was the case everyone would be great. Most players with poor start to their careers never become great.

Same with Shaheen.

 

[Darkrai]

Babar is already at the top in T20Is. He is in the top teir in ODIs. He is getting better and better in test cricket.

 

[dildilpak]

Funniest thing is that before 2018 people in PP always rightly held Kohli’s England record against him whenever the Indian contingent talked about Kohli’s ranking & now some of them are claiming Babar should be in Fab 4 based on a century in Australia & before he even has any impact in any SENA country. Where is the consistency?

 

[Hyperion66]

nah he is right. Matchup wise Lanka is an easier matchup for pak and they could win.

I am sorry I tend believe more in actual results than make-believe matchups.

 

[JaDed]

Babar Azam averages 36.22 in test cricket. And there is no indication he will become great.

Pakistani fans are making a huge logical fallacy by showing earlier records of great players like Kohli.

Great players were not so great at the start of their careers DOES NOT IMPLY players who are not great at the start of their careers will become great.

This is a very common logical fallacy. I have a CS degree so I have studied logic in detail. X=>Y does not mean Y=>X. In this case X="Is a great player" Y="Was not a great player in the beginning"

If this was the case everyone would be great. Most players with poor start to their careers never become great.

Same with Shaheen.

Babar would, I remember I told similar thing to Pak posters 1-2 years ago when they were asking him to be dropped and receiving criticism , now everyone has joined the bandwagon.

On crease he is the only Pakistani batsmen covering all bases, the only thing that would be a hindrance would be his mental level, and as he plays he will cover that as well.

He will be there in another 2 years..

 

[JaDed]

Funniest thing is that before 2018 people in PP always rightly held Kohli’s England record against him whenever the Indian contingent talked about Kohli’s ranking & now some of them are claiming Babar should be in Fab 4 based on a century in Australia & before he even has any impact in any SENA country. Where is the consistency?

Yup couldn’t agree more..but its ok its always fun when players cross those barriers then, Kohli’s performance now is undisputed in tests, except I’m sure we are going to have goal post changed..

 

[Sin Nombre]

I'll take Babar over Joe Root at this point arguably in all 3 formats.

There is no fab 4.

There is a big 2 of Kohli and Smith, followed by KW and test/LOI greats in Pujara/Warner.

Babar is the most likely to get to KW's level though honestly no chance of getting to Smith/Kohli.

 

[Hyperion66]

Funniest thing is that before 2018 people in PP always rightly held Kohli’s England record against him whenever the Indian contingent talked about Kohli’s ranking & now some of them are claiming Babar should be in Fab 4 based on a century in Australia & before he even has any impact in any SENA country. Where is the consistency?

Why do you always have to be so sane and unbiased? Not cool man.

 

[Sidilicious]

Some hyperbole in this thread.

Babar is the best Pak batsman- technically sound & surely, will be one day in top 3 - but is he there yet?

He has not yet won Pak a test in SENA nor has had a breakout tournament. Not even a century in SA or England - but thankfully he has time on his side. Considering Pujara won India a test series in Australia, he has far better claims over this parameter.

Only two test centuries - one home & one abroad. The one abroad was in a lost cause & couldn’t prevent an innings defeat. His conversion rate is also not that great so far. And no big hundreds either (understandable - considering his batting position 5/6)

A great record in ODi & T20s so far, but Rohit Sharma is far far better in white ball cricket & still has no claims for the ‘Fab’ category. Deny it all you want, but test cricket is still the final threshold for any cricketer.

The bottom-line is that Babar Azam (& Pak cricket) need to focus on Test cricket instead of white ball cricket like India/Kohli or NZ did post 2015 or so to be one of the greatest. He also needs to come up the batting order - if you are playing 5/6 more likely than not you are playing with the tail & your conversion rates will invariable suffer. Unfortunately till PCB invests in Test cricket, Babar cannot be in the Fab 3/4.

I think its best to call him one of the next Fab 4 (or whatever the next set of top tier batsmen will be called).

So, he does not have to be compared to the current Fab 4. Currently is below the Fab 4, and even some others like Pujara, Rahane, Warner, Taylor, Stokes etc. However, its unfair for him to be compared to batsmen who are 5-6 years older than him and have 60 more test matches to their name.