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Can Dale Steyn ever match the greatness of Wasim Akram?

Jo_Don said:
Akram dismissed him a grand total of one time.

/waits for excuses about Akram not being at his peak.
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Dont know about him being in form or not but:

Sachin Tendulkar played 7 test matches against a Pakistan team which contained a certain "Wasim Akram", a left arm fast bowler. Those matches were played at Karachi, Faisalabad, Lahore and Sialkot in 1989 and then at Chennai, Delhi and Kolkata in 1999.Tendulkar made 395 from 12 innings in thos tests at an average of 32.91 with 1 century and 2 fifties. He was out for ducks twice as well.

Sachin Tendulkar played 24 one day internationals against a Pakistan side that involved Wasim Akram, making 769 runs at an average of 36.61 with 6 fifties. His best score was 98 which came at Centurion in world cup 2003. Sachin was out for duck twice, hitting 83 fours and 10 sixes.

Overall, Wasim Akram dismissed Sachin Tendulkar once in test matches (at Sialkot in 1989) and thrice in one day cricket (Twice at Toronto in 1996 and once at Sharjah in 2000)
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And I honestly dont know how many times Steyn got Tendulkar out but either way not the most accurate way to judge who the better bowler is.
 
AlizeeFan said:
One dismissal in test. Lol, Steyn and Akram are not even comparable in ODIs. I guess the discussion would make sense only when it is kept limited to tests.
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Please elaborate on this.. because to me it looks like you said that Steyn is so much better than Akram in ODIs that there is no comparison.. Which is absolute bull crap.
 
This 'debate' or whatever you want to call it is mind boggling to me...

Sachin
Sachin was never a threat to Wasim! lol the guy isn't even in top 11 batsmen Wasim faced according to his own opinion
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=155229

The Greats
All the greats who played alongside Wasim regard him best leftie ever I repeat EVER.
“If I ever get a chance to be reborn as a cricketer, I would want to be Wasim”-Allan Border to name a few

but again if you wanna troll keep it on son! Post all stats you wanna post but the FACT remains he is the best EVER!
http://blogs.bettor.com/The-greatest-left-arm-fast-bowler-career-statistics-part-6-a29446

ADIOS!
 
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I never said that Steyn or Wasim was better, go back and read through the posts. But the amount of Steyn bashing going on here in order to defend the honour of a guy who was never the best of his time, not even for a few months, is ridiculous.

As someone said earlier, it's the Zindabad mentality. God forbid if somebody thinks that a non-Pakistani or non-Indian is better than one of their own. The world would end.

And to the cheerleader above, the FACT remains that he may have been the best left arm seamer, but he's nowhere near the best ever.
 
Jo_Don said:
I never said that Steyn or Wasim was better, go back and read through the posts.
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Not sure whom your talking to here man but since I was the ast one to quote your post I'll continue the discussion :yk

But the amount of Steyn bashing going on here
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Guessing this part aint directed at me since I said Steyn was a really good bowler. If anybody is stupid enough to bash Steyn they should go and learn about the game before posting.

Just rise above them ;)

in order to defend the honour of a guy who was never the best of his time, not even for a few months, is ridiculous.
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Debatable. To say someone is the best is a matter of opinion. I've heard people say that Akram is the best bowler ever, I've heard people say that he's the best left armer ever & I've heard people say - including Ravi Shashtri - that he was the best cricketer of the 90s.

And plus "best of his time" means nothing IMO since you could be playing when there is no real tallent around.

I rem a few years ago a thread being about how the only real fast bowlers in the world are Akhter, Steyn & Shane Bond at the time. Now because Bond happened to be one of the best fast bowlers at that time does that mean anything at all? I dont think so.

As someone said earlier, it's the Zindabad mentality. God forbid if somebody thinks that a non-Pakistani or non-Indian is better than one of their own. The world would end.
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If a poster has that mentality then they should participate in these debates. But I'd have to say there are a fair few posters on here who dont think like that

And to the cheerleader above, the FACT remains that he may have been the best left arm seamer, but he's nowhere near the best ever.
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Again, when it comes to "best"..its a matter of opinion.
 
I will go for our Indian legend who played for Pakistan. Wasim Akram ftw!

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
 
LastLaugh_PK said:
Please elaborate on this.. because to me it looks like you said that Steyn is so much better than Akram in ODIs that there is no comparison.. Which is absolute bull crap.
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Lol. I don't think my statement needs explanation. I just stated the obvious and I guess you would be probably only person in this world to understand my statement in that way. Is that the best what you could make out of my post? :yk
 
AlizeeFan said:
Lol. I don't think my statement needs explanation. I just stated the obvious and I guess you would be probably only person in this world to understand my statement in that way. Is that the best what you could make out of my post? :yk
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Lets ignore my post then.. :yk :)
 
Jo_Don said:
Those people watch the game through rose tinted glasses yearning for their glory days again. How many of them played against Steyn? The only people I can think of who have played against both would be Tendulkar, Dravid, VVS and Ponting. And a sample size of 4 isn't exactly conclusive, whatever their opinion may be.

Wasim may have a decent record, and may have done some great things with the ball, but at no point did he clearly perform better than any of his peers. Waqar and Imran had that quality, Wasim didn't.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KILe6q9XS9M

Wasim Akram is The Best Bowler I've ever faced - Brian Lara
And he played Wasim!!

IN YO FACE!!
 
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wasim is better, only malcom marshall was probably better.

imagine wasim with drs, remember wasim and waqar got more of there wickets bowled or lbw than any other fast bowler, imagine them with drs wasim would have at least 600+ wickets and waqar 500+ if they played with drs.
 
speed said:
wasim is better, only malcom marshall was probably better.

imagine wasim with drs, remember wasim and waqar got more of there wickets bowled or lbw than any other fast bowler, imagine them with drs wasim would have at least 600+ wickets and waqar 500+ if they played with drs.
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Or it could have been less, there's no way to know for sure.
 
Comparing Wasim with steyn is like comparing the greatest batsman brian lara with someone like michael clarke who is very good but nowhere near lara.. comparing steyn to akhtar would be fair and lets be honest even akhtar with that pace and killer attitude was more deadly than steyn..
 
Madplayer said:
Comparing Wasim with steyn is like comparing the greatest batsman brian lara with someone like michael clarke who is very good but nowhere near lara.. comparing steyn to akhtar would be fair and lets be honest even akhtar with that pace and killer attitude was more deadly than steyn..
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Seriously, what? Take off the green tinted glasses.
 
speed said:
wasim is better, only malcom marshall was probably better.

imagine wasim with drs, remember wasim and waqar got more of there wickets bowled or lbw than any other fast bowler, imagine them with drs wasim would have at least 600+ wickets and waqar 500+ if they played with drs.
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Why not 1000 wickets each if it has to be exaggerated?
 
Madplayer said:
Comparing Wasim with steyn is like comparing the greatest batsman brian lara with someone like michael clarke who is very good but nowhere near lara.. comparing steyn to akhtar would be fair and lets be honest even akhtar with that pace and killer attitude was more deadly than steyn..
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:yk

For people saying Steyn hasn't achieved what Wasim has here are what Steyn has achieved.

1. Test series win in Pakistan.

Has Wasim won a test series in SA?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in SA.

2. Test series win in WI

Has Wasim won a test series in WI?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in WI.

3. Test series win in Oz.

Has Wasim won a test series in Oz?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in Oz.

Besides team achievements should not be compared to individual ones. People who are bagging on Steyn not achieving as much as Akram and then comparing him with Shoaib?

What is with that?

What has Shoaib achieved?
 
Death Magnetic said:
:yk

For people saying Steyn hasn't achieved what Wasim has here are what Steyn has achieved.

1. Test series win in Pakistan.

Has Wasim won a test series in SA?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in SA.

2. Test series win in WI

Has Wasim won a test series in WI?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in WI.

3. Test series win in Oz.

Has Wasim won a test series in Oz?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in Oz.

Besides team achievements should not be compared to individual ones. People who are bagging on Steyn not achieving as much as Akram and then comparing him with Shoaib?

What is with that?

What has Shoaib achieved?
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that's what SA have achieved and not steyn alone
 
Death Magnetic said:
Which is exactly my point. Here people are talking about World Cup wins. Aren't World Cup wins not team victories?
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they are

its a feather in the players cap if he plays a significant part in a team's achievment be it a series win or a world cup win
 
-MB- said:
they are

its a feather in the players cap if he plays a significant part in a team's achievment be it a series win or a world cup win
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Yes so people shouldn't be bringing series wins/ WC wins when comparing two players as it will not favor players like Lara, Flower, Hadlee etc.
 
^^^@Mb what sort of a comparison is that??
Are we comparing two players or two teams which had those players in them?
U mean if Wasim took a fifer in SA and pakistan lost, wasim's achievement shouldn't be counted? And if SA won somewhere and steyn didnt perform, steyn is a better bowler because his team won??
If thats the case wasim won a world cup for his team which matters the most and steyn hasn't.
 
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Madplayer said:
^^^@Mb what sort of a comparison is that??
Are we comparing two players or two teams which had those players in them?
U mean if Wasim took a fifer in SA and pakistan lost, wasim's achievement shouldn't be counted? And if SA won somewhere and steyn didnt perform, steyn is a better bowler because his team won??
If thats the case wasim won a world cup for his team which matters the most and steyn hasn't.
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he's actually suggesting the opposite

i hope
 
lilFlip said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KILe6q9XS9M

Wasim Akram is The Best Bowler I've ever faced - Brian Lara
And he played Wasim!!

IN YO FACE!!
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But Akram did not include Lara in his top 11. Does that mean Lara is not really amongst the top 11 objectively? Opinion, Sir, Opinion.

Great players have considerable difference of opinion amongst them on who they regard the best. And their views may not match with the expectations of a fan and may also transcend stats.
 
IndianWillow said:
But Akram did not include Lara in his top 11. Does that mean Lara is not really amongst the top 11 objectively? Opinion, Sir, Opinion.

Great players have considerable difference of opinion amongst them on who they regard the best. And their views may not match with the expectations of a fan and may also transcend stats.
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True this.

By the time the greats of this era retire they'll rate Steyn in the same way as Lara is doing to Akram.
 
Madplayer said:
Comparing Wasim with steyn is like comparing the greatest batsman brian lara with someone like michael clarke who is very good but nowhere near lara.. comparing steyn to akhtar would be fair and lets be honest even akhtar with that pace and killer attitude was more deadly than steyn..
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Oh dear, comparing the oxygen-deprived, genital warts-infected Shoaib to a professional like Steyn :facepalm: Shoaib may have been faster, but that's about it. Steyn already has the record to match past greats.

As for Wasim, he was not even the best of his era at any stage of his career. He was never the #1 ranked bowler, not even for a short while.

Time to take off those rose tinted glasses. It's ok for a Pakistani player to not be the best.
 
Jo_Don said:
Oh dear, comparing the oxygen-deprived, genital warts-infected Shoaib to a professional like Steyn :facepalm: Shoaib may have been faster, but that's about it. Steyn already has the record to match past greats.

As for Wasim, he was not even the best of his era at any stage of his career. He was never the #1 ranked bowler, not even for a short while.

Time to take off those rose tinted glasses. It's ok for a Pakistani player to not be the best.
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True this. McGrath, Donald, Ambrose were better. Even Waqar was better at a stage.

Wasim is an ATG test bowler but is slightly overhyped in tests due to his ODI bowling (where he is the best ever fast bowler).
 
Death Magnetic said:
:yk

For people saying Steyn hasn't achieved what Wasim has here are what Steyn has achieved.

1. Test series win in Pakistan.

Has Wasim won a test series in SA?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in SA.

2. Test series win in WI

Has Wasim won a test series in WI?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in WI.

3. Test series win in Oz.

Has Wasim won a test series in Oz?
Ans - No. Not only Wasim, Pakistan have never won a series in Oz.

Besides team achievements should not be compared to individual ones. People who are bagging on Steyn not achieving as much as Akram and then comparing him with Shoaib?

What is with that?

What has Shoaib achieved?
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Seeing that flag beside your user-name gives me a good indication of why you are coming up with petty arguments to put down Wasim.

Comparing the Australia and West Indies of today to the WI and Aussies of years past is a pathetic way to prove that Steyn is better than Wasim.
 
Bilal7 said:
Seeing that flag beside your user-name gives me a good indication of why you are coming up with petty arguments to put down Wasim.

Comparing the Australia and West Indies of today to the WI and Aussies of years past is a pathetic way to prove that Steyn is better than Wasim.
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I am not denigrating Wasim. Just saying team records shouldn't count against individual records.

And your post exactly proves that. Winning a test series or a WC depends on other factors than a player's individual prowess which is what is being compared here.
 
Jo_Don said:
Oh dear, comparing the oxygen-deprived, genital warts-infected Shoaib to a professional like Steyn :facepalm: Shoaib may have been faster, but that's about it. Steyn already has the record to match past greats.

As for Wasim, he was not even the best of his era at any stage of his career. He was never the #1 ranked bowler, not even for a short while.

Time to take off those rose tinted glasses. It's ok for a Pakistani player to not be the best.
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Steyn's only competition are Broad, Anderson and to some extent, Johnson. Do I need to tell you about Wasim's competition?

Its not about us Pakistan fans being biased. Its about a good player being compared to someone who would make most expert's all time World XI. Had this been about Mcgrath vs Wasim or even Pollock vs Wasim, it would be more balanced.

Steyn isn't even the best bowler today. That title belongs to Saeed Ajmal who has the skills, just like Wasim did, to play different formats successfully.
 
Bilal7 said:
Steyn's only competition are Broad, Anderson and to some extent, Johnson. Do I need to tell you about Wasim's competition?

Its not about us Pakistan fans being biased. Its about a good player being compared to someone who would make most expert's all time World XI. Had this been about Mcgrath vs Wasim or even Pollock vs Wasim, it would be more balanced.

Steyn isn't even the best bowler today. That title belongs to Saeed Ajmal who has the skills, just like Wasim did, to play different formats successfully.
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Comparison is obviously as a test bowler. If you include all forms of cricket it isn't even a competition.
 
Bilal7 said:
Is DM's comment surprising too? He isn't a Pakistani, I don't think.
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No, because Wasim is a proven ODI great. Not that ODIs count for much, otherwise Klusener and Bevan would be legends of the game and Bradman and Sobers wouldn't. There is a limit of 50 overs and batsmen therefore don't have the luxury of patience. But keep deluding yourself if you think that it's acceptable to combine formats in order to coincide with your view.

As for Ajmal being better than Steyn, the less said about that, the better. One has been the #1 bowler for almost 4 years straight, most of the time even ahead of Murali. The other still has his training wheels on, having played 8 matches outside the subcontinent. But we all know that it's impossible for a decent Pakistani player to be inferior to anyone else on this forum, no matter how few matches they've played. But with everyone else it's a case of "let's wait until he plays more matches". Carry on then :)
 
Steyn is better to be compared with Waqar, pretty much the exact same style of bowling, though Waqar was quite quicker to due to the horrible wickets he bowled on and the easier cricketing schedules. I always think Wasim's reputation has been elevated highest by non-Pakistani viewers like the English and Indian supporters of his, several Pakistanis rate Waqar and Imran ahead in test cricket - not that Akram wasn't a great.
 
Bilal7 said:
Steyn's only competition are Broad, Anderson and to some extent, Johnson. Do I need to tell you about Wasim's competition?

Its not about us Pakistan fans being biased. Its about a good player being compared to someone who would make most expert's all time World XI. Had this been about Mcgrath vs Wasim or even Pollock vs Wasim, it would be more balanced.

Steyn isn't even the best bowler today. That title belongs to Saeed Ajmal who has the skills, just like Wasim did, to play different formats successfully.
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Steyn averages 22 in a period when a bowling average of 30 is becoming exceedingly scarce. For last five years:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Steyn is perhaps the only bowler today who can match up the legends of the 80s.
 
Steyn is a failure in short format of the game which proves he cant adjust to different formats and conditions and when batsmen attack him. Great players like Wasim,Waqar & Akhtar have great stats in all format of the game.
 
Eye_Done said:
Steyn is a failure in short format of the game which proves he cant adjust to different formats and conditions and when batsmen attack him. Great players like Wasim,Waqar & Akhtar have great stats in all format of the game.
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How is he a failure in the shorter format?
 
He is a bit of failure in the shorter format. Certainly no where near the best. Tsotsobe has been their star ODI bowler recently.
 
IndianWillow said:
He is a bit of failure in the shorter format. Certainly no where near the best. Tsotsobe has been their star ODI bowler recently.
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He hasn't played many ODIs and T20s. 66 ODIs and 23 T20s in 6 years. Steyn is usually rested for these bilateral series, which is one of the reasons why he's been so fit in general.

Just a few years ago he was averaging mind-30s in ODIs, that's down to 28 now, and it's going to keep decreasing. I don't think that there's any need to remind you about what he did to India in the last world cup :)
 
His T20 stats are up there with the best. He has underachieved in ODI's but I wouldn't call it a failure. In ODI's he more or less averages the same as Gul. Now is Gul also a failure in the shorter formats? Furthest thing from it. In fact many posters here would brand him one of the best LOI bowlers around today. Steyn might not have mind blowing stats in ODI's but they are still decent. Wouldn't call him a failure at all.
 
Jo_Don said:
He hasn't played many ODIs and T20s. 66 ODIs and 23 T20s in 6 years. Steyn is usually rested for these bilateral series, which is one of the reasons why he's been so fit in general.

Just a few years ago he was averaging mind-30s in ODIs, that's down to 28 now, and it's going to keep decreasing. I don't think that there's any need to remind you about what he did to India in the last world cup :)
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Steyn is a fast-bowler and is almost 30 years old. He will be on his way down in the near future and so, his stats will most likely worsen. Which is why you should hold the comparisons with past greats until he goes through all the same phases that they went through, including playing with an ageing body.

IndianWillow said:
Steyn averages 22 in a period when a bowling average of 30 is becoming exceedingly scarce. For last five years:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Steyn is perhaps the only bowler today who can match up the legends of the 80s.
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Nothing that I don't agree with.

Jo_Don said:
No, because Wasim is a proven ODI great. Not that ODIs count for much, otherwise Klusener and Bevan would be legends of the game and Bradman and Sobers wouldn't. There is a limit of 50 overs and batsmen therefore don't have the luxury of patience. But keep deluding yourself if you think that it's acceptable to combine formats in order to coincide with your view.

As for Ajmal being better than Steyn, the less said about that, the better. One has been the #1 bowler for almost 4 years straight, most of the time even ahead of Murali. The other still has his training wheels on, having played 8 matches outside the subcontinent. But we all know that it's impossible for a decent Pakistani player to be inferior to anyone else on this forum, no matter how few matches they've played. But with everyone else it's a case of "let's wait until he plays more matches". Carry on then :)
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Ajmal is the best bowler in the world today. With this statement, I mean that he is the best all-round bowler in the world, just like Hashim is the best all-round batsman. You are not a Pakistani but if you have a atleast a little bit of cricketing knowledge, and I know that you do, then you will agree with the aforementioned statement as well.

ODI's alone don't count for much, but Wasim has a great test record and combining that with his ODI prowess, makes him a better bowler than Steyn. If Bevan had a test record similar or even marginally inferior to Bradman's, he would be a bigger legend than the latter.
 
Death Magnetic said:
I am not denigrating Wasim. Just saying team records shouldn't count against individual records.

And your post exactly proves that. Winning a test series or a WC depends on other factors than a player's individual prowess which is what is being compared here.
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I am going to have to disagree, you can go through Cricinfo and look at matches that Wasim took a 5 or 10 wicket haul and see if Pakistan won that test match.

More often than not in Pakistan's case, we heavily rely on one player to dig us out of the hole. :ajmal And Wasim is a great example of that.
 
Momin Baig said:
I am going to have to disagree, you can go through Cricinfo and look at matches that Wasim took a 5 or 10 wicket haul and see if Pakistan won that test match.

More often than not in Pakistan's case, we heavily rely on one player to dig us out of the hole. :ajmal And Wasim is a great example of that.
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Same thing can be done for Steyn.

In fact Steyn has always been the go to guy for South Africa. He never had a good spinner or a good third pacer (until arrival of Philander). Even his second pace bowler (Ntini/Morkel) is good rather than great.

Wasim always had a great second fast bowler (Imran/Waqar/Shoaib) and a good spinner (Qadir/Mushtaq/Saqlain). Sometimes when Shoaib, Wasim and Waqar would play together he had a great third fast bowler as well.

This one man argument works for Ajmal not Wasim.
 
Bilal7 said:
Steyn is a fast-bowler and is almost 30 years old. He will be on his way down in the near future and so, his stats will most likely worsen. Which is why you should hold the comparisons with past greats until he goes through all the same phases that they went through, including playing with an ageing body.



Nothing that I don't agree with.



Ajmal is the best bowler in the world today. With this statement, I mean that he is the best all-round bowler in the world, just like Hashim is the best all-round batsman. You are not a Pakistani but if you have a atleast a little bit of cricketing knowledge, and I know that you do, then you will agree with the aforementioned statement as well.

ODI's alone don't count for much, but Wasim has a great test record and combining that with his ODI prowess, makes him a better bowler than Steyn. If Bevan had a test record similar or even marginally inferior to Bradman's, he would be a bigger legend than the latter.
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Yes but Gary Sobers, Gavaskar, Steve Waugh are still considered ATGs. Dhoni, Bevan etc aren't.
 
ftbno1 said:
I would put steyn ahead anyday of the week he as he averages in low 20s in the era of flat pitches and big bats. Very few can swing the ball so prodigious at such quick pace.
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the day Steyn bowls impossible deliveries that Akram has bowled during his career, then I would heartily accept him as a great. First see what Akram has bowled, even if the average is less or wickets for that matter. Averages are relative, cant be taken too seriously because sometimes the bowlers ar eunlucky or fielding is not good. Akram is way better than Steyn, first Steyn has to compete with Waqar, who himself was once in a lifetime bowler. Well even way before those two, Imran was much larger than life bowler, Steyn is good not in the same league as those names mentioned.
 
speed said:
wasim is better, only malcom marshall was probably better.

imagine wasim with drs, remember wasim and waqar got more of there wickets bowled or lbw than any other fast bowler, imagine them with drs wasim would have at least 600+ wickets and waqar 500+ if they played with drs.
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way before those two , A guy names Imran was bowing crazy in-dippers and his was the same case as those two, he had to bowl the batsmen out, the fielders were not that good,
 
bmwduran said:
the day Steyn bowls impossible deliveries that Akram has bowled during his career, then I would heartily accept him as a great. First see what Akram has bowled, even if the average is less or wickets for that matter. Averages are relative, cant be taken too seriously because sometimes the bowlers ar eunlucky or fielding is not good. Akram is way better than Steyn, first Steyn has to compete with Waqar, who himself was once in a lifetime bowler. Well even way before those two, Imran was much larger than life bowler, Steyn is good not in the same league as those names mentioned.
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Waqar was better than Wasim. It's pointless bowling "impossible deliveries" if it doesn't get you wickets. And Steyn does have a few tricks of his own, such as pitch leg and hit off.
bmwduran said:
way before those two , A guy names Imran was bowing crazy in-dippers and his was the same case as those two, he had to bowl the batsmen out, the fielders were not that good,
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One could also argue that he wasn't subjected to stricter bouncer rules, had more bowler-friendly conditions and didn't have to bowl with the boundaries being brought in 10-15 meters. This is the problem with these cross-era comparisons.
 
bmwduran said:
the day Steyn bowls impossible deliveries that Akram has bowled during his career, then I would heartily accept him as a great. First see what Akram has bowled, even if the average is less or wickets for that matter. Averages are relative, cant be taken too seriously because sometimes the bowlers ar eunlucky or fielding is not good. Akram is way better than Steyn, first Steyn has to compete with Waqar, who himself was once in a lifetime bowler. Well even way before those two, Imran was much larger than life bowler, Steyn is good not in the same league as those names mentioned.
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People these days have no qualms undermining the achievements of present day batsmen citing favourable batting conditions. So why is the same yard stick not being applied to bowlers?

If batting has become easier now than in the 80s and 90s, it is reasonable to assume that bowling is a much harder job than before. Steyn matching 80s bowlers in average in the present age ( when nobody else does) is a worthy achievement.

I am not sure what you mean by Steyn not being able to bowl impossible deliveries. Then how did his wickets come at this average? All by luck?

I have no comments on the Wasim vs Waqar vs Imran comparison. I am sure there is no absolute consensus on the matter. Many here would claim that Waqar was better than Wasim.
 
I've read some of the most ridiculous statements and logic on these posts.

Now I know most of you will think I'm gonna defend Akram because he is Pakistani, but I'll try to keep this as objective as I can.

1. The title of the thread should either be amended to Steyn vs Akram in tests or I have to assume that we are comparing Steyn the cricketer vs Akram the cricketer.

Honestly, all those supporting Steyn know that if the full record of Akram and Steyn is compared Akram wins hands down.

Over 400 wickets in tests and 500 wickets in ODI's plus the ability to hit with the bat. It's not even a comparison between Akram the cricketer vs Steyn the cricketer.


2. Wasim the test bowler versus Steyn the test bowler.

Its a toughie, but I would go with Steyn just on the knack of being able to consistently run down batting line ups. I don't care if you have 10 tricks up your sleeve ( Asif for example was very canny but ended up a druggie ) , if you cannot consistently run down batting line ups you are a good bowler but not a great.


3. Guys, i dont understand how you always make this flat pitch analogies, quality of opposition analogies , playing in Pakistan or playing in South AFrica.

This is just plain old BS. No one I repeat no one can pick up wickets at a phenomenal average of 23 if they are not GREAT.

I challenge all of you ... to bring a bowler from Pakistan and give him the same amount of matches and same opposition.. and he would NOT able to replicate the feats of Steyn.

Great cricketers are great. To say he got 300 wickets playing bolwer friendly conditions in 60 matches is pure nonsense.


4. This is a Pakistani cricket forum , so most of bias is gonna come from Pakistan fans. And its entirely logical.


5. In all finality, If we pick whose is the better cricketer, We all know its Akram.

Whose the better test cricketer ? Steyn just pips Akram but not by much.

Who would I put in my all time XI .. Akram .. just for the sheer presence of him : ) but maybe i am biased in this...
 
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Dr_Bassim said:
I've read some of the most ridiculous statements and logic on these posts.

Now I know most of you will think I'm gonna defend Akram because he is Pakistani, but I'll try to keep this as objective as I can.

1. The title of the thread should either be amended to Steyn vs Akram in tests or I have to assume that we are comparing Steyn the cricketer vs Akram the cricketer.

Honestly, all those supporting Steyn know that if the full record of Akram and Steyn is compared Akram wins hands down.

Over 400 wickets in tests and 500 wickets in ODI's plus the ability to hit with the bat. It's not even a comparison between Akram the cricketer vs Steyn the cricketer.


2. Wasim the test bowler versus Steyn the test bowler.

Its a toughie, but I would go with Steyn just on the knack of being able to consistently run down batting line ups. I don't care if you have 10 tricks up your sleeve ( Asif for example was very canny but ended up a druggie ) , if you cannot consistently run down batting line ups you are a good bowler but not a great.


3. Guys, i dont understand how you always make this flat pitch analogies, quality of opposition analogies , playing in Pakistan or playing in South AFrica.

This is just plain old BS. No one I repeat no one can pick up wickets at a phenomenal average of 23 if they are not GREAT.

I challenge all of you ... to bring a bowler from Pakistan and give him the same amount of matches and same opposition.. and he would NOT able to replicate the feats of Steyn.

Great cricketers are great. To say he got 300 wickets playing bolwer friendly conditions in 60 matches is pure nonsense.


4. This is a Pakistani cricket forum , so most of bias is gonna come from Pakistan fans. And its entirely logical.


5. In all finality, If we pick whose is the better cricketer, We all know its Akram.

Whose the better test cricketer ? Steyn just pips Akram but not by much.

Who would I put in my all time XI .. Akram .. just for the sheer presence of him : ) but maybe i am biased in this...
Click to expand...

Obviously it's test bowler vs test bowler. Otherwise it's not even a comparison.

When people compare Sachin to someone they do it as a batsman, they don't consider his 200 international wickets.
 
Death Magnetic said:
Obviously it's test bowler vs test bowler. Otherwise it's not even a comparison.

When people compare Sachin to someone they do it as a batsman, they don't consider his 200 international wickets.
Click to expand...

But they dont compare Sachin the test batsmen to Lara the test batsmen.

They do it, for all his batting. Akram should be compared for all his bowling, not just his test bowling, considering that Steyn also plays ODI's like Akram.

I must observe that should be a fair comparison in this case.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But they dont compare Sachin the test batsmen to Lara the test batsmen.
Click to expand...
Test comparisons are the only ones that count IMO. ODIs are a relatively modern addition, and many past greats didn't play ODIs. We have no idea how they would have fared.

Any cross-era comparison is only valid for test matches, and even then we have to take into account the different playing conditions.

The ODI game changes too much and too frequently for any comparison to have any meaning. Smaller boundaries, power plays, two new balls, etc.
 
Jo_Don said:
Test comparisons are the only ones that count IMO. ODIs are a relatively modern addition, and many past greats didn't play ODIs. We have no idea how they would have fared.

Any cross-era comparison is only valid for test matches, and even then we have to take into account the different playing conditions.

The ODI game changes too much and too frequently for any comparison to have any meaning. Smaller boundaries, power plays, two new balls, etc.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but if Steyn wasnt playing ODI's then you could make a case for obliterating his ODI record.

Performing in both aspects of a game makes a bowler stand out. Just as performing in both aspects of the game makes a batsmen stand out.

Tendulkar is a great because he performed in both conditions. Test or ODI's. Lara did the same.

Of course we cannot compare Fred "The Demon" Spofforth to Wasim Akram, because he never played ODI cricket. We don't know how he would have fared.

But these two have both played ODI cricket.

And getting 900 wickets in both forms of the game is not by luck. Just as Steyn getting 300 odd wickets in 57 test matches is not by luck.

I still maintain , Wasim was a greater overall cricketer than Steyn , but perhaps NOT a better test cricketer (albeit a very tiny margin) . Both are greats though.
 
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epic-slap_gp_749836.jpg
 
lol, they (real cricketers not armchair cricketers) will keep on talking how great :wasim was and this thread will keep on getting bumped again and again!
 
While this thread may hold true in test matches but steyns odi and t20 career isn't much to write home about. Akram was excellent in both formats, steyn excels in only one and this gives akram higher points



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
No other fast bowler can match Akram's stats and impact in ODI's let alone Steyn.

Steyn VS Asif would be a better comparison..........as they both played during same era and have similar stats.
Asif would edge that battle coz he got same stats during same era While also being high and making a bit of $$$$$$$$ on the side..................2+ to :asif
 
ftbno1 said:
I would put steyn ahead anyday of the week he as he averages in low 20s in the era of flat pitches and big bats. Very few can swing the ball so prodigious at such quick pace.
Click to expand...

Steyn is mortal, Akram is a magician,
 
ftbno1 said:
I would put steyn ahead anyday of the week he as he averages in low 20s in the era of flat pitches and big bats. Very few can swing the ball so prodigious at such quick pace.
Click to expand...

Steyn is my fav bowler. But comparisons between him and akram is the only way to insult Akram. Akram was a way better bowler than him.
Better to delete this thread because almost all the posts are for Akram. So what knd of comparisons is this?
 
Wasim bowled to better batsmen. He bowled to Tendulkar when he was in stick cricket mode, Brian Lara, Ricky Ponting at his peak, Rahul Dravid, Ganguly, Steve Waugh, Andy Flower, Gilchrist, Aravinda De Silva, Jayasuriya and all these batsmen at the peak of their powers.

There are hardly any batsmen in this era which could match up to the greatness of those I mentioned when they turned it on.

Wasim had to compete with some of the greatest fast bowlers we have witness. The likes of Donald, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Mcgrath, Pollock, Vaas etc.

No disrespect but the current crop of fast bowlers all around the world have absolutely nothing on the great fast bowlers of the previous era. Imagine the likes of Tanvir, Balaji and tsotsobe bowling to the batsmen I mentioned.

Today Steyn competes with Morne Morkel. The guy who throws pies when the heat is on. he is nothing compared to the Pollock whose accuracy was perhaps matched by Mcgrath and Ambrose only.

Wasim played most of his matches on dead tracks of Pakistan and Sharjah, he didn't have the luxury to bowl on the gorgeous wickets of South Africa. He didn't grow up bowling on those lovely seaming tracks.

He has 4 hat tricks and is the highest wicket taking seamer of all time.

Wasim averages 23 on dead sub continent tracks in the era of great batsmen after 243 matches and Steyn averages 24.2 in places like SA, Eng, Australia and NZ after 105 matches. That alone settles it.

We will talk when Steyn's achieves what Akhtar has, but he won't. he is 29 and his pace won't last forever. He doesn't have the variety and control that Wasim has.

Steyn has a very impressive record in the sub continent I remember that. but I also remember his not troubling the feeble Pakistani batsmen in UAE and the way Hafeez and Shahzaib spanked him all over the park in the ODIs. Yes two mediocre batsmen at best. Imagine what would the greats have done to him in Sharjah.

The greatness of a player is not about numbers and averages only. It is about the the great moments that define you and your career. The moments people all over remember when you retire.

20 years on, everyone still talks about the the two magical deliveries Wasim bowled in the 92 WC final which won Pakistan the World Cup and him the MOM award.

Let Steyn reach the final of a World Cup first and then we will talk what he does. He like all his teammates choke when it matters. So much for the greatness eh?

We all still remember his two hat tricks against SL in the space of one week on flat tracks.

What great moments of Steyn do we remember?

His 7 wicket haul in India? Where his victims were Vijay, Badrinath, the tail enders? Only prized scalp was of Sachin's and boy did Sehwag still belt him that innings.

His 5 wicket haul in the WC vs India? when he was smashed all over the park and and picked up 5 wickets at the end while still having an expensive economy rate? and his only major scalp was that of Gambhir? Where was Steyn when Sachin and Sehwag were going all guns blazing at the start?


Wasim had the burden of captaincy to go with as well and is a World Cup winner and a finalist.

Steyn is the best today, better than Wasim?

No "facepalm" is great enough for this fail.
 
Jo_Don said:
As someone said earlier, it's the Zindabad mentality. God forbid if somebody thinks that a non-Pakistani or non-Indian is better than one of their own. The world would end.
Click to expand...

:91: Past is also better than the present. Although for some people Wasim > Marshal :afridi

For me though McGrath is greater than all (from the 90s)
 
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I have watched a lot of Wasim during the 90s and always though of him as someone with a lot of talent but a lot less consistency. Some days he used to be just brilliant. In other days, he just used to go through the motions. The incredible amount of talent he had didn't transform into incredible results usually although he was quiet good in taking out the tail.

Their records are very similar with both mastering their home conditions and Steyn having more 10 and 5 wicket halls per test match which suggests that he is more devastating (with better strike rate).

Steyn can be regarded in the same group as Wasim although I will resist passing judgement on who is better because of different eras.
 
Lol at who started this thread how can you compare some one like akram with a bowler who's not half as good
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
We will talk when Steyn's achieves what Akhtar has, but he won't. he is 29 and his pace won't last forever.
Click to expand...
Your entire post is rendered null and void by that one line :)))

Steyn has played more matches, has more wickets, averages better, has one of the top strike rates of all time, has more 5'fers and more 10'fers, and didn't make the news for getting genital warts.

But of course he's not Pakistani so that makes him worse by default :facepalm:
 
Jo_Don said:
Your entire post is rendered null and void by that one line :)))

Steyn has played more matches, has more wickets, averages better, has one of the top strike rates of all time, has more 5'fers and more 10'fers, and didn't make the news for getting genital warts.

But of course he's not Pakistani so that makes him worse by default :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Hahaha mate trust me I meant AKRAM and NOT AKHTAR.
It was a massive typo. Just noticed. Maybe you won't believe now but seriously and if you have seen my posts in the Akhtar vs Waqar thread you'll notice that I don't rate Akhtar at all.
I agree with you that it is disrespectful to compare Steyn to Akhtar.
 
I can't believe i mingled "AKRAM" with "AKHTAR" :facepalm:

For me Akhtar is the most overrated fast bowler of all time.
 
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