Can Dale Steyn ever match the greatness of Wasim Akram?

[AlizeeFan]

The difference between the numbers against WI, NZ and Pak are minuscule. Australia were a stronger batting side but the numbers against the Saffers is interesting.

You can't be serious about sub-continental pitches being better for fast-bowlers than other pitches.

I'm not saying that pitches in Pakistan were green tops. But when I see that Kapil had average of 26 at home and 32 away and Srinath had avg of 26 at home and 33 away, it certainly intrigues me.

Even if difference is minuscule, since Pakistan were better batting side than most countries (at least in home conditions) and pitches were dead flat tracks, averages of bowlers shouldn't have been lower or ever close especially considering that it was not a familiar condition for the bowlers who always bowled on more bolwer friendly pitches.

 

[Anfield]

unfair comparison. Let him retire first. Styen is definitely a legend in making. Wasim is a proven legend.

 

[cards fan]

The difference between the numbers against WI, NZ and Pak are minuscule. Australia were a stronger batting side but the numbers against the Saffers is interesting.

You can't be serious about sub-continental pitches being better for fast-bowlers than other pitches.

there is no clear evidence that Wasim is in different level than Steyn. this is what we are argueing about. Comparison overall is fair which is my point. yes SC wickets are not as bowler friendly as pitches in SA or Aus, but its not easy for any fast bowler, no matter where he plays, during this era to have average of 23.

pitches are a lot flatter these days in Aus/SA/Eng. Even batsmen approach has been different these days as well. more aggressive and technique has got better. When sachin was playing the straight drive during 90s, there were very few batsmen those days play that shot. but now I can show 10 to 15 batsmen who could play similar shot as good as Sachin did in 90s if not better. cricket has evolved. just accept the truth.

just answer me these question, dont you see a lot of better batsmen these days compared to 90s? Dont you see pitches are slightly flatter or atleast current generation of batsmen make them look little flatter, these days compared to 90s?

 

[AlizeeFan]

there is no clear evidence that Wasim is in different level than Steyn.

Nah, Wasim is certainly at different level than Steyn. But Steyn is on his way to greatness. Still he has to perform for some more time to reach there. I won't say that he is close to Wasim for now. Like some members said this comparison would make more sense when Steyn retires.

 

[jusarrived]

by usual pp logic shudnt Steyn >>>>>> Wasim as the pitches are much fallter now than in the 90s ?

Wasim still for me , but if steyn continue to do what hes been doing for a few more years than he will easily pip every other bowler imo.

 

[lilFlip]

Its like comparing your block's tough kid who can through a puch or two to Mohammad Ali

 

[lilFlip]

I'm not saying that pitches in Pakistan were green tops. But when I see that Kapil had average of 26 at home and 32 away and Srinath had avg of 26 at home and 33 away, it certainly intrigues me.

Even if difference is minuscule, since Pakistan were better batting side than most countries (at least in home conditions) and pitches were dead flat tracks, averages of bowlers shouldn't have been lower or ever close especially considering that it was not a familiar condition for the bowlers who always bowled on more bolwer friendly pitches.

The most bogus post of PP's history

 

[AlizeeFan]

The most bogus post of PP's history

If you want to believe so and if that makes you happy...

 

[Zamee]

why dont you cut this dead wicket crap? subcontinent pitches suit better for reverse swing. we all know how deadly Wasim and Waqar were on those abrasive pitches. Zaheer khan who is half as good as Wasim got so many wickets on dead pitches in the last several years. if you checks, most of them were through reverse swing.

like I said earlier Wasim is defenitely not in different league, this is very reasonable comparison. but I would pick Steyn in test and Wasim in ODIs.

for People who say Steyn playing most of the matches on bowler friendly wickets, then Kallis who have been scoring over 50+ on those same pitches should be the best ever batsman. is he best ever? no way.

lol yeah right thats why most of the high score matches are played on ''dead pitches''.
By your logic, Gautam Gambhir and Sehwag are world's best test batsmen cuz their record on these ''dead tracks'' is amazing.

 

[Zamee]

Shifting the goal posts now are we? What's Wasim's record versus right handers? Everyone is quick to pull Steyn's record versus left handers, only because it was brought up by the poms during the test series. Why was this never an issue before? So please bring up Wasim's record versus right handers if you want your point to have any weight.

As for this dead pitch nonsense, please give it a rest. SC conditions are most favourable to reverse swing, and you're expecting to perform well in home conditions because you grew up playing there. Steyn has a brilliant record in India and Pakistan, just btw.

Nobody highlighted it so it must be okay or atleast better than Steyn. It was brought by Poms? So Steyn is bowling under their influence? LOL why blame it on poms when Steyn has this deficiency against lefties and that too in favorable conditions!
Ive seen Steyn reversing it in South Africa, heck even Zak was reversing it when India toured you last time.

 

[AlizeeFan]

lol yeah right thats why most of the high score matches are played on ''dead pitches''.
By your logic, Gautam Gambhir and Sehwag are world's best test batsmen cuz their record on these ''dead tracks'' is amazing.

Most of the pitches where pacers of both sides easily take wickets are not called dead tracks.

 

[Justcrazy]

Akram is overrated mostly because he is a left arm pacer. He is probably the best of his kind and would walk into any world XI on the basis of being left armer.

I think Akram has more variations than Steyn ......

When Styen finishes his carer then we would be in a better position to compare.

 

[PB]

Steyn and Waqar would be a better comparison.

 

[Madplayer]

This thread is a joke

 

[IndianWillow]

It is too early to compare Steyn with Akram, let Steyn play at least 30 more test matches. That said, I think Steyn may finally end up better. In test matches, Akram was magical, but rarely had it in him to bulldoze through sides like Steyn, and for this reason he was rarely ranked no 1 test bowler in the world. The way Steyn can move the ball with pinpoint accuracy is truly amazing and this enabled him to get on top of the world and stay up there consistantly.

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

Akram owns Steyn...so far...but I cant see Steyn out performing Akram.

 

[emclub]

this thread us an insult to the great man

 

[Jo_Don]

Nobody highlighted it so it must be okay or atleast better than Steyn. It was brought by Poms? So Steyn is bowling under their influence? LOL why blame it on poms when Steyn has this deficiency against lefties and that too in favorable conditions!
Ive seen Steyn reversing it in South Africa, heck even Zak was reversing it when India toured you last time.

Why was it not raised as an issue before this test series? And what are the relevant stats against left and right handlers for every other bowler? Once you have that, then you may raise it as a deficiency.

 

[mr einstein]

Seeing as everyone loves to discredit the records of batsmen of the last decade for making hay on flat pitches, I reckon it's about time we did the inverse with guys like Steyn. They're at least equal for mine, Steyn definitely ahead if he maintains what he's doing the next few years.

 

[Zamee]

Why was it not raised as an issue before this test series? And what are the relevant stats against left and right handlers for every other bowler? Once you have that, then you may raise it as a deficiency.

Why only for Steyn? Because he has this deficiency.

 

[James]

Seeing as everyone loves to discredit the records of batsmen of the last decade for making hay on flat pitches, I reckon it's about time we did the inverse with guys like Steyn. They're at least equal for mine, Steyn definitely ahead if he maintains what he's doing the next few years.

Agreed. There has to be consistency.

 

[speed]

let him finish his career first.

 

[Jo_Don]

Why only for Steyn? Because he has this deficiency.

You don't know if it's a deficiency until the same data is available for every bowler.

 

[speed]

steyn is yet to surpass pollock and donald imo as sa best fast bowler.

record of pollok

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/46774.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

record of akram

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

record of donald

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44716.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

they all have 1 country where they average 30+ which is amazing.

record of steyn

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/47492.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling


he has 3 countries where he averages 30+

 

[adi_6294]

Steyn has long way to go..Plus he is very inconsistent in limited over cricket.
Akram was a legend...
Not only akram performed in tests but also in ODIs
Steyn is yet to prove himself in asian conditions.

 

[shehzadd]

Stats may tell the other story in the end but skill wise Wasim is best. Even I'd rate Waqar and McGrath better than Steyn.

what do u think steyn vs kapil dev or zaheer khan?
can steyn swings the ball like Akram?
Reply....
If not?
then delete this thread.

 

[Jo_Don]

Akram never consistently ran through batting line-ups. All that wizardry counts for nothing if you're not consistently taking wickets.

This is demonstrated by never having reached the #1 bowler ranking, and his highest ever rating being 830 points, leaving him in 62nd place. http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/

And that's why I've always rated Waqar ahead of him - he was a genuine, consistent, wicket taker. Let's see how long it takes before people start shifting the goal posts again, rubbishing the player rankings (which are actually fairly accurate, unlike the team rankings).

 

[Robert]

For me, Steyn is significantly better than Wasim, based on the hard evidence of actual results on the pitch rather than waffly concepts such as "talent".

I'm starting to think that Steyn may even be as good as Marshall.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Akram never consistently ran through batting line-ups. All that wizardry counts for nothing if you're not consistently taking wickets.

This is demonstrated by never having reached the #1 bowler ranking, and his highest ever rating being 830 points, leaving him in 62nd place. http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/

And that's why I've always rated Waqar ahead of him - he was a genuine, consistent, wicket taker. Let's see how long it takes before people start shifting the goal posts again, rubbishing the player rankings (which are actually fairly accurate, unlike the team rankings).

Don't tell me you rate Derek Underwood higher than Shane Warne!

 

[Jo_Don]

Don't tell me you rate Derek Underwood higher than Shane Warne!

Of course not, and neither is Botham better than Lillee. But to be so far below your peers, languishing in 62nd place, is a telling factor. It means that you never really reached the same heights as your peers.

Akram was never the #1 bowler for a reason. Waqar was for a reason. Steyn is for a reason. All the talent and wizardry in the world means nothing if you don't pick up wickets consistently.

 

[Kwremb]

I sincerely hope people would wait till a player retires before comparing him with past greats

 

[IndianWillow]

Of course not, and neither is Botham better than Lillee. But to be so far below your peers, languishing in 62nd place, is a telling factor. It means that you never really reached the same heights as your peers.

Akram was never the #1 bowler for a reason. Waqar was for a reason. Steyn is for a reason. All the talent and wizardry in the world means nothing if you don't pick up wickets consistently.

The ranking reliably measures the peak performance of the player but does not throw light on consistancy. That is why Botham ( who had a terrific first five years) is at the top. But Botham is not that good, because he was not very impressive during his second half.

It may be a good idea to rank the players based on their average rating over their entire career. Plilander is already at 50, and if his career peters off from here, it makes no sense to rank him at 50 in the all time list.

 

[Jo_Don]

The ranking reliably measures the peak performance of the player but does not throw light on consistancy. That is why Botham ( who had a terrific first five years) is at the top. But Botham is not that good, because he was not very impressive during his second half.

It may be a good idea to rank the players based on their average rating over their entire career. Plilander is already at 50, and if his career peters off from here, it makes no sense to rank him at 50 in the all time list.

It shows the heights that were reached, and all great bowlers reached great heights, even if they dropped off from there. However everyone who reached great heights was not necessarily a great bowler. Hope you can see the difference. Wasim lagged way behind his peers in terms of the heights he reached.

 

[Bewal Express]

Akram never consistently ran through batting line-ups. All that wizardry counts for nothing if you're not consistently taking wickets.

This is demonstrated by never having reached the #1 bowler ranking, and his highest ever rating being 830 points, leaving him in 62nd place. http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/bowling/

And that's why I've always rated Waqar ahead of him - he was a genuine, consistent, wicket taker. Let's see how long it takes before people start shifting the goal posts again, rubbishing the player rankings (which are actually fairly accurate, unlike the team rankings).

Steyne is a better bowler and has destroyed top orders on many occasions and thats why he has been number i and Akram never was,the hype on the forum is just rubbish. This guy tampered with the ball and got the ball to reverse swing and thats what made him look great.

 

[James]

Of course on a Pakistani forum people will say Akram was better. But most objective analyses suggest that Steyn is superior.

 

[lilFlip]

@Jo_Don, James....

Wasim Akram: Legend Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irg7OQAjfSw

Wasim Akram : Legend Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckwzK97DAAA

You see here people who've actually played the game, most of them greats, talk about

He's in any all time best ever 11 you ever make [test/odi/t20]

peace

 

[Bewal Express]

For a such a great there wasn`t anytime in his career he was ranked number 1, why? For most of his career he was 4 or 5,why?

 

[lilFlip]

For a such a great there wasn`t anytime in his career he was ranked number 1, why? For most of his career he was 4 or 5,why?

ICC ranking system is a mystery
+
Watch videos posted above where some real experts and pros talk about him

 

[jeetu]

It depends on his form, at present Dale Steyn's record is at par with most bowling greats.

 

[Khaseer]

Steyn has struggled in England and Pakistan. Now Pakistan may change in 2013, but I don't know how some can already compare him to Marshall or Mcgrath. Wasim is a reasonable comparison but the other two, not so much imo.

 

[Fareed_Idrees]

Steyn>>>>>Akram........steyn is quicker and consistent

 

[alberto]

Dale Steyn will only be considered a legend if he bowls South Africa to a 50 over world cup like Akram did in 1992. Akram was quicker and swings the ball both ways at will.

 

[James]

You see here people who've actually played the game, most of them greats, talk about

He's in any all time best ever 11 you ever make [test/odi/t20]

peace

I see. So, a presumption that your opponent in the debate has not played 'the game' - or has not played it to his satisfaction so cannot have an opinion - followed by a few YouTube videos, and then gloriously concluding with the highly debatable pronouncement that Akram gets into any all-time XI. Altogether yours isn't so much a poor argument as no argument. Your post is impotent, it does not advance this debate in any way.

Steyn has struggled in England and Pakistan.

England no longer.

 

[Jo_Don]

Dale Steyn will only be considered a legend if he bowls South Africa to a 50 over world cup like Akram did in 1992. Akram was quicker and swings the ball both ways at will.

No serious cricket fan considers ODIs as the benchmark of a player, WC or not. If that was the case then Bevan and Klusener would be ATGs, and Bradman and Sobers would not.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Dale Steyn will only be considered a legend if he bowls South Africa to a 50 over world cup like Akram did in 1992.

What about Waqar, Donald, Pollock, Lara, Ambrose, Walsh, Hadlee?

 

[Jo_Don]

Steyn has struggled in England and Pakistan. Now Pakistan may change in 2013, but I don't know how some can already compare him to Marshall or Mcgrath. Wasim is a reasonable comparison but the other two, not so much imo.

Highest wicket taker in the recent series against England. Averages 24 in Pakistan with a strike rate of 37. Averages 20 in India at a strike rate of 35. I'm not sure which planet you're living on.

 

[James]

Loving the Zindabad rhetoric that fails to recognise Steyn swings the ball both ways too, at will and at pace.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Steyn has struggled in England and Pakistan.

Steyn averages 24 in Pakistan.

 

[speed]

I see. So, a presumption that your opponent in the debate has not played 'the game' - or has not played it to his satisfaction so cannot have an opinion - followed by a few YouTube videos, and then gloriously concluding with the highly debatable pronouncement that Akram gets into any all-time XI. Altogether yours isn't so much a poor argument as no argument. Your post is impotent, it does not advance this debate in any way.




England no longer.

averages 30+ in uae, sl and england.

 

[Justcrazy]

the thread is interesting ............ will go on for sometime.

 

[Bewal Express]

ICC ranking system is a mystery
+
Watch videos posted above where some real experts and pros talk about him

Only to you. ICC rankings dont just take stats at face value but look at the quality of the batsman he got out. So when Akram got Phil Tufnell he didn`t get as many points as getting Brian Lara. Whatever people say on here he struggled to consistently get top batsman out but took alot of lower order batsman. For example in 7 test matches he only got Tendulkar out once.

 

[PakPrince]

Not even a fair comparison

A better comparison would be Steyn vs Waqar, where Steyn wins hands down

 

[Bewal Express]

I see the Akram fans go very quiet when confronted with the fact that he wasn`t rated 1 at anytime his career. No doubt he was a very good bowler and in a few series he looked great but for the most part he was just good.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Only to you. ICC rankings dont just take stats at face value but look at the quality of the batsman he got out. So when Akram got Phil Tufnell he didn`t get as many points as getting Brian Lara. Whatever people say on here he struggled to consistently get top batsman out but took alot of lower order batsman. For example in 7 test matches he only got Tendulkar out once.

Well Wasim had highest percentage of tail-end wickets and lowest percentage of top-order wickets, but wrapping up tail is also a skill.

Min qual - 300 wickets, all pace bowlers.

 

[zulfiqar]

Aus is not bowling friendly... the only three places that i consider bowling friendly are Eng, NZ, and SA. Places that are not pacer friendly are Ind & Pak. Aus is a pretty even contest between bat and ball.

 

[zulfiqar]

And as for Steyn vs Akram (TESTS ONLY), if Steyn were to retire today he'd end up the better bowler.. that's my personal opinion and I'm a HUGE Wasim fan. If you are looking at just test bowling alone. As a full package, even if you add test batting, or captaincy, or ODI bowling/batting, etc, Wasim will win as a Cricketer.

 

[lilFlip]

I see. So, a presumption that your opponent in the debate has not played 'the game' - or has not played it to his satisfaction so cannot have an opinion - followed by a few YouTube videos, and then gloriously concluding with the highly debatable pronouncement that Akram gets into any all-time XI. Altogether yours isn't so much a poor argument as no argument. Your post is impotent, it does not advance this debate in any way.




England no longer.

Chill there sweetheart. First of all, all I wanted to say that: people who are considered specialist in this game have more to say about a player than some random people on forums whose dedication to game is as a mere spectator.

'highly debatable pronouncement' <- again we come to same thing, when they were choosing All time 11 @ ESPNCricinfo almost all of jury selected directly

Your posture on matter is mere arrogance which has no cure

 

[lilFlip]

 

[lilFlip]

Only to you. ICC rankings dont just take stats at face value but look at the quality of the batsman he got out. So when Akram got Phil Tufnell he didn`t get as many points as getting Brian Lara. Whatever people say on here he struggled to consistently get top batsman out but took alot of lower order batsman. For example in 7 test matches he only got Tendulkar out once.

1st of all didn't played at his peak

moreover, he was in tandem with / so maybe that was a reason he didn't get that much top order

 

[truthseer]

Loving the Zindabad rhetoric that fails to recognise Steyn swings the ball both ways too, at will and at pace.

Are you actually arguing Steyn, at this point of time, is better than Akram?

 

[ddss]

Ask any batter who has played them both in their primes.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Batsmen in the current era can't deal with anyone who can swing it at decent pace. I shudder to think what wasim and waqar for that matter would have done to these useless batsmen

 

[James]

Are you actually arguing Steyn, at this point of time, is better than Akram?

No I stick with my statement on page 1. Steyn will end up the better.


As for the other guy, I don't argue with cheerleaders (putting aside that he accuses others of arrogance despite his laughably patronising posting style) - so I can't be bothered with that one.

 

[Jo_Don]

Chill there sweetheart. First of all, all I wanted to say that: people who are considered specialist in this game have more to say about a player than some random people on forums whose dedication to game is as a mere spectator.

'highly debatable pronouncement' <- again we come to same thing, when they were choosing All time 11 @ ESPNCricinfo almost all of jury selected directly

Your posture on matter is mere arrogance which has no cure

Those people watch the game through rose tinted glasses yearning for their glory days again. How many of them played against Steyn? The only people I can think of who have played against both would be Tendulkar, Dravid, VVS and Ponting. And a sample size of 4 isn't exactly conclusive, whatever their opinion may be.

Wasim may have a decent record, and may have done some great things with the ball, but at no point did he clearly perform better than any of his peers. Waqar and Imran had that quality, Wasim didn't.

 

[LastLaugh_PK]

Lol we even have a thread for this?

Steyn didn't exactly set the world on fire when he visited the UAE. He was hardly menacing. I want to see him perform on a flat track first.Lets see how he does in Ind,SL, UAE before we start comparing a rookie with a legend of the game. Wasim got most of his wickets on the flat tracks of the subcontinent. Anybody can be deadly in England/SA because of the conditions. Even India's trundlers look threatening there.

 

[Anfield]

Lol we even have a thread for this?

Steyn didn't exactly set the world on fire when he visited the UAE. He was hardly menacing. I want to see him perform on a flat track first.Lets see how he does in Ind,SL, UAE before we start comparing a rookie with a legend of the game. Wasim got most of his wickets on the flat tracks of the subcontinent. Anybody can be deadly in England/SA because of the conditions. Even India's trundlers look threatening there.

well his record in India is outstanding. And To be Fair he was making a comeback in UAE and wasn't at his best. He is equally good in flat conditions too.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Lol we even have a thread for this?

Steyn didn't exactly set the world on fire when he visited the UAE. He was hardly menacing. I want to see him perform on a flat track first.Lets see how he does in Ind,SL, UAE before we start comparing a rookie with a legend of the game. Wasim got most of his wickets on the flat tracks of the subcontinent. Anybody can be deadly in England/SA because of the conditions. Even India's trundlers look threatening there.

During Wasim's period, pacers of visiting team looked more deadly in Pakistan than in SA. Even Zimbabwe's pacers were threatening on flat dead tracks.

 

[LastLaugh_PK]

During Wasim's period, pacers of visiting team looked more deadly in Pakistan than in SA. Even Zimbabwe's pacers were threatening on flat dead tracks.

If you look closely.. most of the pacers have played in 2 or 3 matches only.. that is hardly enough sample to make a valid judgement.

And this figure only highlights how pathetic our batting has been over the years rather than the skill of the pacers..

 

[AlizeeFan]

If you look closely.. most of the pacers have played in 2 or 3 matches only.. that is hardly enough sample to make a valid judgement.

And this figure only highlights how pathetic our batting has been over the years rather than the skill of the pacers..

So far arguments given in favor of Akram are :

1. Akram played most of his career on dead flat tracks which were not helpful for fast bowlers.

Fact : Pakistan was 3rd best place for touring pace bowlers after Zimbabwe and England. Better than SA, England, Australia, NZ and WI. Check post # 44

2. Pakistan had pathetic batting line-up.

Fact : Among Australia, SA, England, NZ, Pakistan, Pakistan had second best batting average at home.

Fact : Pakistani fans claim that Pakistani team of that period was strongest Pakistani team and matches were played on flat dead tracks.

How pathetic batting line-up of strongest Pakistani team could be to make it pacers heaven on flat tracks? Worst ever in history of cricket? Then we also see that Pakistani line-up was overall ahead of most of those teams with green top tracks.

3. Steyn played most of the time in helpful conditions.

True. But still pacers of visiting teams didn't enjoy as good time in SA as they did in Pakistan during Wasim's period and batting is much easier in Steyn's period.

4. Anyone can bowl better in SA and England. Not so in Pakistan.

Check the list in previous post. It looks like anyone could better even in Pakistan.

5. Akram could swing both ways.

Fact : Steyn could do same.

6. Steyn has to win major tournaments for SA to prove himself.

Fact : Waqar, Hadlee, Amrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock Lara etc didn't win major tournaments for their teams. It doesn't stop people from comparing Waqar and Wasim or Wasim and Ambrose.

7. Steyn has to prove himself on flat pitches.

He has already done that on flat pitches of England, Australia, India and Pakistan.

<hr>

For me, Wasim is ahead of Steyn and we can compare him with legend after his retirement. Wasim's bowling was part of my childhood memories and always rated him highly as a bowler. But I don't agree with most of the arguments given in his favor.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

So far arguments given in favor of Akram are :

1. Akram played most of his career on dead flat tracks which were not helpful for fast bowlers.

Fact : Pakistan was 3rd best place for touring pace bowlers after Zimbabwe and England. Better than SA, England, Australia, NZ and WI. Check post # 44

2. Pakistan had pathetic batting line-up.

Fact : Among Australia, SA, England, NZ, Pakistan, Pakistan had second best batting average at home.

Fact : Pakistani fans claim that Pakistani team of that period was strongest Pakistani team and matches were played on flat dead tracks.

How pathetic batting line-up of strongest Pakistani team could be to make it pacers heaven on flat tracks? Worst ever in history of cricket? Then we also see that Pakistani line-up was overall ahead of most of those teams with green top tracks.

3. Steyn played most of the time in helpful conditions.

True. But still pacers of visiting teams didn't enjoy as good time in SA as they did in Pakistan during Wasim's period and batting is much easier in Steyn's period.

4. Anyone can bowl better in SA and England. Not so in Pakistan.

Check the list in previous post. It looks like anyone could better even in Pakistan.

5. Akram could swing both ways.

Fact : Steyn could do same.

6. Steyn has to win major tournaments for SA to prove himself.

Fact : Waqar, Hadlee, Amrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock Lara etc didn't win major tournaments for their teams. It doesn't stop people from comparing Waqar and Wasim or Wasim and Ambrose.

7. Steyn has to prove himself on flat pitches.

He has already done that on flat pitches of England, Australia, India and Pakistan.

<hr>

For me, Wasim is ahead of Steyn and we can compare him with legend after his retirement. Wasim's bowling was part of my childhood memories and always rated him highly as a bowler. But I don't agree with most of the arguments given in his favor.

Same here Wasim bhai for me , but the way some person are giving argument against Steyn it is complete childish , a respected poster even said that wasim has more magic in his index finger than Steyn complete right arm , a bowler who has strike rate of 40 after 50 odd test matches in modern era

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

I'm not going to belittle steyn because he's easily the best bowler of the last decade.

However, I have to say his bowling although good does not look too great when u compare it with his phenomenal stats.

When waqar had those stats and u watched him bowl you thought 'yeaah this guy is amazing. Not the same with steyn.

It just leads me to believe that the current batsmen are a soft touch

 

[testcricketisbest]

Akram is better overall bowler but in tests it has to be Steyn.

 

[Anfield]

Some comical stuff here. Muhammad Ali vs Street Boxer comparison is as ridiculous as it gets.

 

[LastLaugh_PK]

Lets wait and see once Steyn retires. History will be the best judge of who was better.

But Steyn hasn't achieved even an iota of what Akram achieved as yet.

 

[testcricketisbest]

Lets wait and see once Steyn retires. History will be the best judge of who was better.

But Steyn hasn't achieved even an iota of what Akram achieved as yet.

you must be kidding right.

 

[LastLaugh_PK]

you must be kidding right.

400 test wickets, 500 ODI wickets, 1 WC victory (would not have won it without him), 1 WC final (would not have reached the final without him), 2 test hat-tricks, 2 ODI hat-tricks, countless match winning performances..

Let me know when Steyn achieves all of that.

 

[Bilal7]

Do people not get the simple idea that if Steyn does infact continue for two to three years, his bowling will DECLINE. Same thing happened to Akram and Waqar.

He is already losing his pace or preferring not to utilise all his pace because it takes a heavy toll on his 30 year-old body.

He has only played 57 tests till date so people need to chill when comparing him bowlers that have performed spectacularly for around 16 years. The comparison with Waqar would have more merit.

 

[TalhaSyed]

Its stupid to compare 2 guys from different eras, playing against different oppositions, on different pitches, one being a left hand bowler and the other being a right.

But if you really really really wanna poke at it.

Forget numbers, stats and figures.

Just see the 2 guys bowl.

Setyns good..really really good.

Akrams just better. Hes a legend. The pace he generated off a 15 yard run up, moving the ball both way, exploiting reverse swing, bowling unplayable deliveries....its simply unmatched but any bowler today

 

[LastLaugh_PK]

Best person to ask is Tendulkar, he has played both.

Considering how many times Wasim dismissed him, his choice would be Akram..

 

[Jo_Don]

Best person to ask is Tendulkar, he has played both.

Considering how many times Wasim dismissed him, his choice would be Akram..

Akram dismissed him a grand total of one time.

/waits for excuses about Akram not being at his peak.