What's new

Can India truly be one of the ATG Asian Test sides without having played against Pakistan?

Madplayer

Senior Test Player
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Runs
28,686
Post of the Week
1
The title says it all.

India has been more or less unchallenged at home by any half decent test side which has a good spin deal to offer whether while batting against spin or bowling spin. Pakistan is the only test side in the world which can offer such a resistance to India in Asian conditions in general and in India in particular.

Pakistan is at best a mid table test side but it would be unfair to say that they arent competitive in Asian conditions.

Will it be fair to give this Indian side the tag of an ATG test side which effectively means to brush aside the lack of matches against Pakistani team as a non-factor?
 
Misbah/Younis/Ajmal's Pakistan against our fading line-up of the 2012-2013 era would have been a test.

Today we will just brush them aside would be my guess. Pakistani bats would struggle heavily against Bumrah and Jadeja in particular.
 
Yes because India vs Pakistan in this era would be as competitive as India vs Sri Lanka.
 
Yes because India vs Pakistan in this era would be as competitive as India vs Sri Lanka.

Not necessarily. Pakistan are a much better test side than Sri Lanka in Asian conditions.
 
Undoubtedly. Look at the current Pakistan team to begin with.

They have Yasir Shah, Babar Azam and Shaheen Afridi as only world class players in their team.

In comparison, a Steve Smith, Pat Cummins, Nathan Lyon and a Josh Hazelwood team of Australia came to India and still lost that series after days of practice in UAE dustbowls.

I would argue that even this Australian team is better than current Pakistan team because Lyon is a superior bowler to Yasir, Smith is a superior test batsman to Babar, a pace attack of Pat Cummins, Josh Hazelwood and Mitchell Starc is far superior to the pace attack of Pakistan currently which has Shaheen and Abbas as their frontline bowlers.

Hence, India don't need to beat this Pakistan team to prove anything. Moreover, they also lost to SL in UAE, so anyways that argument goes for a toss.
 
Misbah/Younis/Ajmal's Pakistan against our fading line-up of the 2012-2013 era would have been a test.

Today we will just brush them aside would be my guess. Pakistani bats would struggle heavily against Bumrah and Jadeja in particular.

India might win. But I believe Pakistan will be more competitive against India in Asian conditions as compared to SENA teams. Without having faced this challenge, questions will always remain.
 
Didn't Sri Lanka whitewash Pakistan though?

Pakistan also whitewashed Srilanka IIRC. And Pakistan have played better cricket than SL in Asia over the years generally speaking.
 
Not necessarily. Pakistan are a much better test side than Sri Lanka in Asian conditions.

Not really. The Pakistan team that got to number 2 (number 1 thanks to washout between India and West Indies) were whitewashed by Sri Lanka 2-0 with Herath taking a 9 wicket haul.

They also barely scraped to a draw in UAE with Azhar pulling off a chase at Sharjah just before closing time.

Misbah’s Pakistan was not much better than the Sri Lanka of that time. They would have been thrashed by India.

Current Pakistan might be better than current Sri Lanka, but it doesn’t mean anything because both sides are just hovering above minnow level.
 
Depends. Pakistan needs to pick a winning combination. Selectors and Misbah pick the wrong players then India wins, and vice versa.
 
Pakistan would get destroyed by India in India, Pakistan or UAE. A full-strength Indian bowling attack in the subcontinent is too good for Pakistan.
 
Yes Pakistan will have upper hand in Asian conditions...they should comfortably beat this overrated indian side
 
Guys, this rubbish pak team batted 145 overs in a 4th innings in Australia recently, iand that was before bobby became a beast. It's gotten easier to bat out on day 5 wickets now compared to 10 years ago.
I would love to see us take on India in India, I would like to think we would raise our game.
Shaheen and Abbas would b fine with the new ball and Shah g would come into it.
Heck we would bring players like hafees and Malik to do some spin bashing too!!
 
This team is already one of the ATG Asian test sides and no they don't have to prove anything by playing against a much lesser team.
 
Without demeaning Pakistan, it just does not have the quality to compete with India. India does not need to play against Pakistan to be called ATG. India will destroy Pakistan in any venue.
 
Our team can't compete against this Indian side, at least for now. We have some pretty exciting players but the quality that was on display today from India - 'resilience' - is not something our cricketers have at this point in time.

When it comes to hard 5 day toil, Pakistan is nowhere near India. We can definitely beat them in ODIs and T20Is on our days but not test cricket for sure.
 
Guys, this rubbish pak team batted 145 overs in a 4th innings in Australia recently, iand that was before bobby became a beast. It's gotten easier to bat out on day 5 wickets now compared to 10 years ago.
I would love to see us take on India in India, I would like to think we would raise our game.
Shaheen and Abbas would b fine with the new ball and Shah g would come into it.
Heck we would bring players like hafees and Malik to do some spin bashing too!!
Will they not retire till 50 ? :danish
 
I don't know if India will beat Pakistan or the vice-versa, but I miss India-Pakistan tests. Even Ashwin said that today in post-match interviews.
 
Yes. Because Pak is ranked #7, they might become more competitive but will not win against our team in Asian conditions against Bumrah, Shami, Ash, Jaddu.
 
Pakistans best ever test side is the one considered between 1980s and 1993. They won a test series in india which help give that team recognition of its quality.

So yes india vs pakistan series are important.
 
If India beats all SENA countries in series both home and away, they would become an ATG side, regardless of Pakistan. Pakistan is not a benchmark for anyone , let alone for India in asian conditions .
 
Pakistans best ever test side is the one considered between 1980s and 1993. They won a test series in india which help give that team recognition of its quality.

So yes india vs pakistan series are important.

Honest question will your current test team beat below XI in a 3/ 5 match series anywhere in Asia ?

Rohit
Gill
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pant
Jadeja
Ashwin
Shami
Ishant
Bumrah
 
Absolutely not. Pakistan is not a great side at the moment, but if you refuse to play against any opponent, then you cannot go around giving yourselves accolades. Imagine Ali the boxer refusing to fight an opponent. There is no way anyone would allow him to give himself the title of the Greatest.

India are a decent side at the moment, but they haven't been tested in all conditions against all type of opposition, they are deliberately priming conditions to favour themselves and doing their utmost to deprive their neighbours of those same conditions. This sort of team will only be called great by their own fans and sycophantic "Pakistanis" who's main motivation for praising India is usually to have a dig at their own country.
 
Absolutely not. Pakistan is not a great side at the moment, but if you refuse to play against any opponent, then you cannot go around giving yourselves accolades. Imagine Ali the boxer refusing to fight an opponent. There is no way anyone would allow him to give himself the title of the Greatest.

India are a decent side at the moment, but they haven't been tested in all conditions against all type of opposition, they are deliberately priming conditions to favour themselves and doing their utmost to deprive their neighbours of those same conditions. This sort of team will only be called great by their own fans and sycophantic "Pakistanis" who's main motivation for praising India is usually to have a dig at their own country.

When people prepare the list of greatest movies or books, do they watch every movie ever made, or read every book ever written?
 
When people prepare the list of greatest movies or books, do they watch every movie ever made, or read every book ever written?

Every book or movie is available to them if they wish to do so, that is the point. If they decided there were certain books or movies which they would refuse to read or watch, then how could their views be taken seriously?
 
I think becasue the gap is so big between India in both rankings and even recent performances, probably. If Pakistan were 2 or 3 and consistently competitive then people would wonder.

A big difference between Pakistan and India is the lifecycle of Pakistan's cricketers. For example, Yasir Shah and Abbas have not been playing for that long yet it feels like they've already played, peaked and are now declining. The life cylce of any recent Pakistan team has been very short. The same core of players have never really been around long enough and since Misbah's retirement, we've tried 3 captains. So it's difficult to say which Pakistan team would be able to compete with India. Even now, with the NZ loss, there may be another overhaul with Pakistan.
 
Inzamam's team was a different kettle of fish than this one.

India might well be the best Asian team of all time technically, although I would say that is still debatable. But as a matter of principle they forfeited their right to be considered by picking and choosing which opponents they play against.

This is my take on it, and if others want to praise them for it, by all means call them what you like.
 
Misbah/Younis/Ajmal's Pakistan against our fading line-up of the 2012-2013 era would have been a test.

Today we will just brush them aside would be my guess. Pakistani bats would struggle heavily against Bumrah and Jadeja in particular.

Bumrah is yet to play a test at home if I'm not mistaken, but Jadeja is a world-beater in India. His record speaks for itself.

Most of the SENA teams don't really compete in Asian conditions, especially India. Secondly, the subcontinental teams like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh get beaten in India quite heavily if I'm not wrong. However, Pakistan is better than the likes of Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, especially in Asian conditions. To win would be an overestimate, but to say that it would be a heavy loss would also be an underestimate.

From what I know, it would be a series which could potentially give India a little challenge at home. I personally think that India is a great team, but there have always been instances where the best teams face challenges against one particular team, and we won't know if Pakistan could challenge India until it happens.

IMO I don't think the current Indian can be considered one of the greatest teams in history unless they play against all playing nations, but with the nations they have played so far, they can certainly be in for consideration.
 
The simple answer is yes, if PAK were a top 3/5 team then you could make the argument that PAK would give India the most trouble at home due to similar conditions etc, however at present Pakistan are very poor and are actually lucky not to play india as they would embarass us badly.
 
OK, OK.. I’m sharing a small piece of data - in recently concluded Christchurch Test, first day Match thread went to about 13-14 pages (don’t catch me on this - I can easily check, not required).... by 4th day it came down to 5-6 pages.

That’s against NZ, in a 2 Test series, after 2nd day of 2nd Test - Imagine this talented PAK side playing against India in a 5 Test series .... what will happen by 3rd/4th day of 5th Test!!!!!

PS: Remember - I’m not writing 5th day & it wasn’t a typo .......
 
Go look up the H2H stats between the 2 teams since 2000. There is very little difference.

Yes because both teams are playing the same set of players since 2000. It appears that common sense is not very common here...
 
OK, OK.. I’m sharing a small piece of data - in recently concluded Christchurch Test, first day Match thread went to about 13-14 pages (don’t catch me on this - I can easily check, not required).... by 4th day it came down to 5-6 pages.

That’s against NZ, in a 2 Test series, after 2nd day of 2nd Test - Imagine this talented PAK side playing against India in a 5 Test series .... what will happen by 3rd/4th day of 5th Test!!!!!

PS: Remember - I’m not writing 5th day & it wasn’t a typo .......

Pak fans don't turn up in numbers at the ground to watch their team play and don't even turn up on PP to support :ssmith
 
There is no competition. India is an elite team and it has players who are gritty, talented and street-smart. On the other hand, Pakistan is a minnow-level team with no real match-winner and all players lack situational awareness and are mentally weak.

It is almost like Bangladesh vs India.
 
This would not even be a contest. India are fighting tooth and nail with no Kohli and a spate of injuries against Aus in Aus. They have just held them to one of the greatest draws ever. Pakistan are in such a state of mediocrity atm that innings losses in Aus, NZ and South Africa have become so predictable. Pakistan really do have nowhere to turn in terms of bowling options - the cupboard is so bare. Not one of these guys apart from Shaheen would cause this Indian batting line up any discomfort. Naseem and Abaas would be feasted on. Yasir thumped out of the attack. A very sorry state of affairs.
 
There is no competition. India is an elite team and it has players who are gritty, talented and street-smart. On the other hand, Pakistan is a minnow-level team with no real match-winner and all players lack situational awareness and are mentally weak.

It is almost like Bangladesh vs India.

100% .... it is summed up by the shot Yasir played in the 2nd innings of first test in NZ when Pak were looking to save the game. Compare that to the fight shown by Ashwin who bats in the same position. Our players have a "cake cutting after scoring a 100 even if the game was lost" mentality. Compared to this Indian team who like you said are street smart and know who to play game situations, our players are paindoos with bat and ball in hand. Apart from Babar not a single player apart from Shaheen maybe who is thoughtful or has good cricketing IQ.
 
Last 10 Tests in AUS by Asian Teams

India
(L D D W L W D L W D)

Srilanka
(L L L L L L L D L L)

Pakistan
(L L L L L L L L L L)

[Bangladesh played only 2 Tests]
 
I know one thing is for sure, all the success India is getting will frustrate the Pakistanis even more and now we will not accept our ugly performances in SENA. Our benchmark has always been and will always be India. So if that benchmark is getting harder and harder, that has to be a good thing, right?
 
Pak currently hold the ‘we won the 2nd session in the 3rd test trophy’ if Ind are interested in it they can play pak..
 
Guys, this rubbish pak team batted 145 overs in a 4th innings in Australia recently, iand that was before bobby became a beast. It's gotten easier to bat out on day 5 wickets now compared to 10 years ago.
I would love to see us take on India in India, I would like to think we would raise our game.
Shaheen and Abbas would b fine with the new ball and Shah g would come into it.
Heck we would bring players like hafees and Malik to do some spin bashing too!!

Which match was this in which Pak batted 145 overs
 
Bumrah is yet to play a test at home if I'm not mistaken, but Jadeja is a world-beater in India..

All our other fast bowlers, Shami, Yadav, Ishant average near 25 at home, in recent years, so dont see why Bumrah would have any issues. Even Bhuvi averages 27 in India. I dont know if you have been following indian cricket lately, but in India, recent years there have been barely high scores, with our pace bowlers taking 65% to 70% of wickets

Also, no team has challenged India at home in recent times. You would need very good fast bowling to compete
 
In Aus vs Ind series in Aus in last 3 years
Australia bowlers
Cummins - 29 wkts @ 22.79
Hazlewood - 24 wkts @ 24.83
Starc - 22 wkts @ 33.36
Lyon - 27 wkts @ 36.48

Indian bowlers
Bumrah - 32 wkts @ 21.2
Ashwin - 18 wkts @ 27.5
Shami - 16 wkts @ 28.8
Jadeja - 14 @ 21.8
 
Every time India has a good test result, people bring up these hypothetical what-ifs to cheer themselves up. The need for constant validation is almost cute in a way.
 
In Aus vs Ind series in Aus in last 3 years
Australia bowlers
Cummins - 29 wkts @ 22.79
Hazlewood - 24 wkts @ 24.83
Starc - 22 wkts @ 33.36
Lyon - 27 wkts @ 36.48

Indian bowlers
Bumrah - 32 wkts @ 21.2
Ashwin - 18 wkts @ 27.5
Shami - 16 wkts @ 28.8
Jadeja - 14 @ 21.8

There goes the myth that Pakistan has a superior bowling attack. We had a better bowling unit a decade ago but now India possesses a remarkable bowling unit.
 
Pakistan would be under much pressure, scrutiny to really bring out their best game against India more than vs any other country.

Maybe playing frequent against the Indians in all formats would have been good for our players who would have learnt to deal with the pressure of an Indian Pakistani contest.

India would have done away with Pakistan's overall head to head superiority therefore their mistake for missing out
 
All our other fast bowlers, Shami, Yadav, Ishant average near 25 at home, in recent years, so dont see why Bumrah would have any issues. Even Bhuvi averages 27 in India. I dont know if you have been following indian cricket lately, but in India, recent years there have been barely high scores, with our pace bowlers taking 65% to 70% of wickets

Also, no team has challenged India at home in recent times. You would need very good fast bowling to compete

Since there seems to be a myth about Indians being reliant on spin at home and home grounds

Our fast bowlers home stats (average) in the last 5 years

Bhuvi - 20 (only 5 tests)
Shami 22
Umesh 24
Ishant 25

Bhuvi is yet to play at home

In case you were under the impression that India's pace attack is not lethal at home and only spinners prevail

Talking of spinners at home (average)

Jadeja 24
Ashwin 25


Its an all round formidable bowling attack which has been blowing away teams
 
India would have done away with Pakistan's overall head to head superiority therefore their mistake for missing out
That may be due to us not taking this H2H thing as seriously as you go guys do.
 
There goes the myth that Pakistan has a superior bowling attack. We had a better bowling unit a decade ago but now India possesses a remarkable bowling unit.

In the last 5 years all indian pacers average less than or about 25. This includes Bumrah, Shami, Yadav, Ishant. Bhuvi who is always injured also averages 26, 27 home and away

Check out the home stats on Indian pitches i have quoted above

This is not even counting our spinners like Ashwin and Jadeja
 
Not sure about ATG, but what I am quite sure about is, had India and pakistan played against each other, a bilateral series every two years, like they did around 2004-2007, then I am quite certain Pakistan cricket would have been in much better place than right now as the more you play a good side the more better and fast u improve

Pak plays alot of cricket against lower ranked team and stays lower ranked as well and plays quite less against top side these days
 
I know one thing is for sure, all the success India is getting will frustrate the Pakistanis even more and now we will not accept our ugly performances in SENA. Our benchmark has always been and will always be India. So if that benchmark is getting harder and harder, that has to be a good thing, right?

I think you have a point. It's terrible that the Pakistani mentality is to accept SENA losses as long as India is losing there too. There were posters on this forum doing bhangra because we arguably lost the test series to NZ in a less embarassing fashion than India did a year ago.

Pakistan have a long way to go to become as ruthless as this current Indian side and you'd question whether we'll ever be better than them again. The 90's feel like an awfully long time ago now.
 
There goes the myth that Pakistan has a superior bowling attack. We had a better bowling unit a decade ago but now India possesses a remarkable bowling unit.

I think most Pakistani posters here will admit that India been having a much superior attack for quite some time.
 
I think most Pakistani posters here will admit that India been having a much superior attack for quite some time.

They have a better batting line up as well, they are by far the better team. But as I said, they forfeited the right to call themselves the greatest Asian team of all time when they decided to pick and choose which opponents they would like to face and when.

In that sense the OP is perfectly correct in his assertions. Sorry to say it, but being a champion means having a champion mentality, not running away from your rivals.
 
Yes. If it was 2014-16 when pakisfan was genuinely a good side in a asian conditions you would have a point
 
In that sense the OP is perfectly correct in his assertions. Sorry to say it, but being a champion means having a champion mentality, not running away from your rivals.

Starwman coming from you mate. Team India isn't running away from anyone. There is a government imposed restriction in place and for good reason. I really do not want to divert the topic towards other directions.

Sorry to say but a team that was whitewashed by SL, lost test against NZ and WI at home can't compete jack against India in Asia. I applauded Pak batsman's resilience against NZ but they are simply not equipped to face an Indian attack, don't even wanna discuss what Kohli will do to Abbas and co, we literally do not have a single weak link in Asia. You can talk about the Pune test but even in case of a raging turner we have better spinners and you don't have a Steve Smith.
 
Starwman coming from you mate. Team India isn't running away from anyone. There is a government imposed restriction in place and for good reason. I really do not want to divert the topic towards other directions.

Sorry to say but a team that was whitewashed by SL, lost test against NZ and WI at home can't compete jack against India in Asia. I applauded Pak batsman's resilience against NZ but they are simply not equipped to face an Indian attack, don't even wanna discuss what Kohli will do to Abbas and co, we literally do not have a single weak link in Asia. You can talk about the Pune test but even in case of a raging turner we have better spinners and you don't have a Steve Smith.

Your team is running away, whether you want to blame your govt is neither here nor there. They both represent your country, and it isn't Pakistan team that has refused steadfastly to play against another Asian opponent. Pakistan will play India any time anywhere. When you can do the same then you can think about calling yourselves the greatest Asian team of all time.
 
Your team is running away, whether you want to blame your govt is neither here nor there. They both represent your country, and it isn't Pakistan team that has refused steadfastly to play against another Asian opponent. Pakistan will play India any time anywhere. When you can do the same then you can think about calling yourselves the greatest Asian team of all time.

Apart from traditional rivalry or political tension there is nothing at stake playing Pakistan.

Even if things get better, current cricketing level of both teams means Pakistan would get a one off test or a 2 test series like Bangladesh,Srilanka or Afghanis get.

Also apart from major ICC tournaments no one in India cares about an Ind-Pak games anyways leave alone test cricket.

In all fairness I wouldn’t mind seeing some Pakistani players in the IPL, that’s about it. Even there may be outside of 2-3 Max three aren’t too many.
 
The thing about Pak vs Ind test cricket is that you never know the outcome.

From getting a hat trick in 1st over to clean bowling David/SRT consecutively to Afridi owning Indian top order :srt

It's obvious Pak are currently not highly ranked but it won't be an easy win for India. Anyone who knows a bit of history and understands cricket should get that.
 
Apart from traditional rivalry or political tension there is nothing at stake playing Pakistan.

Even if things get better, current cricketing level of both teams means Pakistan would get a one off test or a 2 test series like Bangladesh,Srilanka or Afghanis get.

Also apart from major ICC tournaments no one in India cares about an Ind-Pak games anyways leave alone test cricket.

In all fairness I wouldn’t mind seeing some Pakistani players in the IPL, that’s about it. Even there may be outside of 2-3 Max three aren’t too many.

Post match yesterday, Ashwin was asked if india- Australia is the biggest rivalry in cricket for India and he replied” I would say pakistan normally but we don’t get to play each other anymore so because of that I’d say yes India-Australia.”
 
The thing about Pak vs Ind test cricket is that you never know the outcome.

From getting a hat trick in 1st over to clean bowling David/SRT consecutively to Afridi owning Indian top order :srt

It's obvious Pak are currently not highly ranked but it won't be an easy win for India. Anyone who knows a bit of history and understands cricket should get that.

India would smash us to smithereens lol.

If we play a 3 match test series well lose 2 comprehensively and sneak in a competitive performance (with Indian players uncharactericaly failing, couple of our batsmen digging in and playing great innings etc) but even that one performance could end up being a close loss.

I think from the time we haven’t played them oe a 2007-2020, there was only a 2 year period where we could have beaten them. That was 2014 to 2016 when india was gilding this current team and weren’t as solid whilst we were very good in Asian conditions.
 
Your team is running away, whether you want to blame your govt is neither here nor there. They both represent your country, and it isn't Pakistan team that has refused steadfastly to play against another Asian opponent. Pakistan will play India any time anywhere. When you can do the same then you can think about calling yourselves the greatest Asian team of all time.

You are comparing ot to boxing and literally accusing India of ducking an opponent. That's not a valid example. Plenty of top boxers have avoided lower quality opponents in the past when they think the money is not worth the risk. In test cricket Pakistan is an opponent that is not considered highly by an team currently . India could, rightly , have been accused of ducking an opponent if it was a big 3 team or a tour in one of the SENA nations . It's like saying Australia were not a great cricketing team at their peak because they didnt tour Zimbabwe.
 
Misbah’s Pakistan got whitewashed in Sri Lanka in 2014 and drew 1-1 in UAE. That Sri Lankan side was comfortably inferior to India.

India would have comfortably beaten us home and away in Misbah era. Yasir wouldn’t be effective against them and our batsmen except Younis and Misbah would have struggle big time against Ashwin and Jadeja.

Pakistan has not been a better Test side than India since 2005-2006.
 
Misbah’s Pakistan lost a Test to West Indies in the UAE and drew with New Zealand. Not in a million years would this India stoop that low.
 
Pakistan India is not about rankings alone. The rankings at times go out of the window and I do believe even if India is no 1 and Pakistan is no 9 and India plays a 5 test, 5 ODI and 5 T20 series with Pakistan right now, there is no doubt that India will not be favorites and will not win the series but the pressure, expectations of an indo Pakistan series will force the Pakistani players to try and punch above their weight.

Maybe as the series goes on, the initial nerves of the Pakistani players will go away and the team will get used to the opposition. Pakistan Imo especially when it comes to indo Pakistan contests has suffered the most because of the lack of cricketing activity bw the two countries which is why they struggle to handle the pressure of indo pak contests these days and they end up playing even way below their limited potential

Lol at posters highlighting Pakistan's defeats against the low ranked sides of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, West Indies etc. It doesn't really matter in an indo Pakistan contest. Pakistan prior to the 1999 tour of India was coming off a 1-0 defeat to Zimbabwe and a 1-0 defeat to Australia at home whereas India had demolished a very decent, very game Australian side at home.
Pakistan went to India and won the series 2-1.
 
All our other fast bowlers, Shami, Yadav, Ishant average near 25 at home, in recent years, so dont see why Bumrah would have any issues. Even Bhuvi averages 27 in India. I dont know if you have been following indian cricket lately, but in India, recent years there have been barely high scores, with our pace bowlers taking 65% to 70% of wickets

Also, no team has challenged India at home in recent times. You would need very good fast bowling to compete

I know how potent India's fast bowling attack is.

However, it is my opinion that the current Indian team cannot be considered as one of the greatest teams in the world until they play against Pakistan.

It's not because I think Pakistan is better, mind you, that would be foolish.

Just like how certain players fail against certain oppositions (ie. Babar Azam vs Sri Lanka in T20), you don't know how a team will perform against another until it actually happens.
 
India would smash us to smithereens lol.

If we play a 3 match test series well lose 2 comprehensively and sneak in a competitive performance (with Indian players uncharactericaly failing, couple of our batsmen digging in and playing great innings etc) but even that one performance could end up being a close loss.

I think from the time we haven’t played them oe a 2007-2020, there was only a 2 year period where we could have beaten them.
That was 2014 to 2016 when india was gilding this current team and weren’t as solid whilst we were very good in Asian conditions.

I think, Pakistan's best chance was in the 2012-2014 period when India lost to England at home and Pak defeated the same English team 3-0 in UAE. That team had a great spin attack in Ajmal and Rehman, could have really troubled India back then.
 
This thread is late by 4 or 5 years. Pak team of today is a joke with rookie bowlers, pathetic openers and middle order. India has left us in the dust which may be hard to admit. India has established it's dominance in Asia and will continue to do so.
 
Pakistan India is not about rankings alone. The rankings at times go out of the window and I do believe even if India is no 1 and Pakistan is no 9 and India plays a 5 test, 5 ODI and 5 T20 series with Pakistan right now, there is no doubt that India will not be favorites and will not win the series but the pressure, expectations of an indo Pakistan series will force the Pakistani players to try and punch above their weight.

Maybe as the series goes on, the initial nerves of the Pakistani players will go away and the team will get used to the opposition. Pakistan Imo especially when it comes to indo Pakistan contests has suffered the most because of the lack of cricketing activity bw the two countries which is why they struggle to handle the pressure of indo pak contests these days and they end up playing even way below their limited potential

Lol at posters highlighting Pakistan's defeats against the low ranked sides of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, West Indies etc. It doesn't really matter in an indo Pakistan contest. Pakistan prior to the 1999 tour of India was coming off a 1-0 defeat to Zimbabwe and a 1-0 defeat to Australia at home whereas India had demolished a very decent, very game Australian side at home.
Pakistan went to India and won the series 2-1.

The gap between the two sides was insignificant in 1999, so there is no need of writing tales about what Pakistan did.

Historical context means nothing. It is all about the relative quality of the two sides, and the gap between Pakistan and India has never been this wide.

While the momentum shifted towards India by early 2000s, Pakistan was competitive with India until the early 2010s.

The gap widened to an astronomical level after the 2012-2013 series as India successfully transitioned from the Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Zaheer, Harbhajan generation to Kohli, Rohit, Pujara, Rahane, Dhawan, Ashwin, Jadeja, Bumrah, Shami etc. they more or less retained their quality.

On the other hand, Pakistan badly regressed. They went from Yousuf, Inzamam, Younis, Asif, Akhtar, Afridi, Razzaq, Gul, Ajmal to Azhar, Shafiq, Haris, Abbas, Naseem, Shadab, Faheem, Sohail, Imad. The drop in quality is huge.

Only Babar, Yasir, Shaheen and Rizwan are comparable to the players of the 2000s generation.

Today in 2020-2021, the gap is at an all-time high. If there is a series today, Pakistan will get obliterated regardless of the format.

Speaking of nerves, the current Pakistan team has had decent exposure to the current Indian team. The same set of players played 5 ODIs in the space of two years and India won 4 out of 5 matches, and in 2 of those matches they were without Kohli.

None of India’s 4 wins were close affairs, which illustrates the gulf between the teams. The Champions Trophy final was also very one-sided in Pakistan’s favor, but these type of results often happen in one-off games where the better side has a complete off-day.

If Pakistan and India play a series, Pakistan might crash India in a one-off game, but over the course of the series, India will win with ease and most of their wins will be very one-sided.

The idea that Pakistani players will raise their game against India in a bilateral series is just a sad coping mechanism based on the history between the two sides while conveniently ignoring the fact that the gap between the two teams was never this massive.
 
I think India vs Pak would have been really competitive in 2015-16. India were in the process of developing its core attack and Pakistan had MisYou at their peak.

Since then the teams have diverged significantly. Pakistan are rebuilding their batting core and their bowling lineup is somewhat in tatters.

India on the other hand have an established ATG bowling core. Their batting is not as settled as their bowling but still good.

I think Pakistan will still manage to spring the occasional surprise but over a longer frame of four or five tests, India will decisively have the edge, in UAE or in India.
 
Back
Top