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Channel 4 exposes India's ugly face to the world in Kashmir's torture trail- CHANNEL

Thanks, will try to find a stream but already shared the info.
 
Wicket Hit said:
What does it expose?
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This, I'd say

...in among the rioters, to find out why they risked their lives, and accompanying a local human rights lawyer determined to investigate how India restored an uneasy peace, True Vision uncovers a state-sanctioned torture programme that has set India on a collision course with the international community.
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akheR said:
This, I'd say
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There is nothing to "expose" there. It's a given fact that Indian forces have dealt with Kashmiri terrorism in a high handed and brutal way.

But that's how Indian or any third world forces deal with any insurgency. Thats what these guys with high school education are capable of. Has China dealt with the Tibet or Uygur rebellion in a more humane way? Of course, not.
 
And that's a quote from someone who has more likely supported slogans like "Kashmir mein rehna hai to Allah - o - Akbar kehna hai". In a semi serious discussion do you take the word of lunatics like these who have nothing in the Kashmir slogan but religious propaganda?
 
Thanks for posting.

Keep spreading the word guys. Lets get as many people to watch it as possible.

Particularly those who don't know whats going on in that part of the world.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Thanks for posting.

Keep spreading the word guys. Lets get as many people to watch it as possible.

Particularly those who don't know whats going on in that part of the world.
Click to expand...

I would really appreciate a word of confidence for the eradicated Kashmiris by "Kashmir mein rehna hai to Alllah - o - Akkbar kehna hai" brigade.!
 
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About time.....though why so late, this should be on at 9/10pm
 
Wicket Hit said:
There is nothing to "expose" there. It's a given fact that Indian forces have dealt with Kashmiri terrorism in a high handed and brutal way.

But that's how Indian or any third world forces deal with any insurgency. Thats what these guys with high school education are capable of. Has China dealt with the Tibet or Uygur rebellion in a more humane way? Of course, not.
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But (as far as im aware) theres no UN resolution regarding a plebiscite to decide the fate of Tibet or Uygur...
 
Mohsin said:
But (as far as im aware) theres no UN resolution regarding a plebiscite to decide the fate of Tibet or Uygur...
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Ever heard of a Veto? The Chinese have one and its been used on many occasions.

btw, what I dont understand is that Uyghurs and Tibetans are being systematically persecuted and the Chinese have crushed any sort of rebellion with brute force, worse than Kashmir. Seldom do We see any of you raising your voice against that or do you need a UN resolution for that? hypocrisy at its best.

All said and done, When you have so many security forces in the valley, collateral damage and brute force will always be a reality. sincerely hope, we can find a way out for this.
 
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Blitzkrieg27 said:
Ever heard of a Veto? The Chinese have one and its been used on many occasions.
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I personally am not aware of any veto by China, when the UN has bought forward a resolution regarding a referendum...
 
Wicket Hit said:
What does it expose?
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It exposes lies of Indian propaganda on Kashmiri freedom movement being not popular among the masses.

It corrects the astigmatic view of ignorant autistic Indians who believe that their army& politicians are force of good and Kashmiri freedom fighters are evil .
 
soton said:
It exposes lies of Indian propaganda on Kashmiri freedom movement being not popular among the masses.

It corrects the astigmatic view of ignorant autistic Indians who believe that their army& politicians are force of good and Kashmiri freedom fighters are evil .
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ok thanks.

btw...you are a class act.
 
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soton said:
It exposes lies of Indian propaganda on Kashmiri freedom movement being not popular among the masses.

It corrects the astigmatic view of ignorant autistic Indians who believe that their army& politicians are force of good and Kashmiri freedom fighters are evil .
Click to expand...

Soton is back:bow::bow::bow::bow:

always loved reading your posts:asif
 
Mohsin said:
So, 'ever heard' of a resolution regarding a plebiscite being vetoed then?
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What? I referred to the fact that the Chinese have a Veto and have used it on numerous occasions. Regarding tibet, the threat of veto and the Americans using the issue as a leverage has been enough for anyone not to attempt a resolution on Tibet

With regards to the Kashmir plebiscite, India refused because Pakistan did not comply to one of the prerequisites i.e Pakistan to withdraw all troops and mercenaries sent across the border. moreover, a plebiscite is impractical now given that the "freedom fighters" have considerably altered the demographics of the valley. If it was China, they would've settled the disputed territory with all of their people as in Tibet.

I am sure you'll get all the sources and debates if you just use the search function because this issue has been debated and ranted over for as long as I have been on this forum.
 
Mohsin said:
But (as far as im aware) theres no UN resolution regarding a plebiscite to decide the fate of Tibet or Uygur...
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And neither is there a UN resolution to decide the fate of Kashmir. It died with the Shimla agreement and change of demographics in the region driven by your fauj. Anyways, the first condition of the UN resolution is complete withdrawal of forces by Pakistan, let me know when it happens.
 
soton said:
It exposes lies of Indian propaganda on Kashmiri freedom movement being not popular among the masses.

It corrects the astigmatic view of ignorant autistic Indians who believe that their army& politicians are force of good and Kashmiri freedom fighters are evil .
Click to expand...

Sir! To hear the truth from an indian.:19:
 
soton said:
It exposes lies of Indian propaganda on Kashmiri freedom movement being not popular among the masses.

It corrects the astigmatic view of ignorant autistic Indians who believe that their army& politicians are force of good and Kashmiri freedom fighters are evil .
Click to expand...

Fantastic post from a fantastic poster
:)
 
Thanks for the info, I hope Indian authorities and democratically elected Kashmiri government is looking at this, so that they can improve the situation of people.
 
Wicket Hit said:
There is nothing to "expose" there. It's a given fact that Indian forces have dealt with Kashmiri terrorism in a high handed and brutal way.

But that's how Indian or any third world forces deal with any insurgency. Thats what these guys with high school education are capable of. Has China dealt with the Tibet or Uygur rebellion in a more humane way? Of course, not.
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Lol! how biased are you?

You term the Kashmiris terrorist and the Tibet/Uygur as rebels.

If anything, the Indian army is the terrorist, occupying foreign land.
 
It's on a little late. Channel 4 dug into the sri lankan war quite well too.

Maybe it's part of a wider series on SA tortures.
 
Vegitto1 said:
Lol! how biased are you?

You term the Kashmiris terrorist and the Tibet/Uygur as rebels.

If anything, the Indian army is the terrorist, occupying foreign land.
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What about Baluchistan people fighting Pak Army? How do you classify them ?
 
jeetu said:
What about Baluchistan people fighting Pak Army? How do you classify them ?
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Go on, try to make out a UN resolution off the Balochistan issue and you could be half-credible bringing it up while talking about Kashmir.
 
akheR said:
Go on, try to make out a UN resolution off the Balochistan issue and you could be half-credible bringing it up while talking about Kashmir.
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Funny, keep on ignoring when Pak Army kills his own countrymen.
 
jeetu said:
Funny, keep on ignoring when Pak Army kills his own countrymen.
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Glad that you have something to laugh about apart from the death of the Kashmiri "terrorists", but don't act so thick, you missed some important episodes if of all the PP members you accuse me of "ignoring what Pak Army" does in Balochistan.
 
I dont know what is Pakistan's issue with a problem which is between Indians and Kashmiris.Pakistanis talk about UN resolution,when they havent withdrawn their armies from KAshmir.Anyways Pakistan gave away the UN resolution when they signed the Shimla Agreement.
 
akheR said:
Glad that you have something to laugh about apart from the death of the Kashmiri "terrorists", but don't act so thick, you missed some important episodes if of all the PP members you accuse me of "ignoring what Pak Army" does in Balochistan.
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So what is your stand on Balochistan ? Are they freedom fighters according to you ?
 
jeetu said:
So what is your stand on Balochistan ? Are they freedom fighters according to you ?
Click to expand...

Yes they are.






And you have been owned because you lost your only rhetoric argument against me lol.
 
Some more info on this.

These four films offer a deeper look at the issues raised by Kashmir's Torture Trail.

The Warden's Tale

In the Yateen Foundation orphanage in Srinagar, an institution backed by Save the Children, warden Mohammed Ayub describes how violence meted out on children in Kashmir - or violence that they witness, including the killing and torture of their parents - fills the children with a desire for revenge that will be hard for India to quash. 'War makes orphans and orphans will make war,' he fears.

A Father's Tale

In Kashmir's Torture Trail, we have followed Nazeema Wandroo, who lives in an embattled city in the far north of Kashmir, for a year. Her brother, Feroz, 24, was shot in the head by a tear gas canister. Critically ill, he was arrested under a draconian law by which, without charge or trial, a Kashmiri can be detained to prevent them from committing a crime in the future.

Known as the Public Security Act, it is a method of preventative detention which has seen an estimated 20,000 detained without trial, and has been lambasted by Human Rights Watch and the UN.

Here, a neighbour, Ghulam Hasan Baht, calls in to comfort Nazeema, as he has done frequently. But for the first time he reveals to her that both of his sons, Ehsan and Zubair, have died too. One was killed by a government gunman, and the other, according to eyewitnesses, was drowned by the Indian security forces in the river outside his home.

The Militant's Tale

Qadir Dar used to be a militant commander, leading 10,000 men in the Muslim Janbaz Force and fighting India until the mid-1990s when he was captured. He has now surrendered, and has formed a human rights outfit - People's Rights Movement - that campaigns to stop torture. He recounts the torture meted out to surrendered militants, never forgetting the inside of the torture chamber.

The Future

A new report will show that as many as one in two Kashmiris have been tortured. India has refused the UN special rapporteur on torture access since 1993. Domestic laws on torture have stalled. Here, Qadir Dar, a former militant commander, warns that the torturing of young men detained by the security forces fills them with a desire for revenge, sending Kashmir into a spiral of violence.
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http://kashmirwatch.com/humanrights.php/2012/07/08/kashmir-s-torture-trail.html

The so called Public Security Act just goes to show how the Indian authorities are making up disgusting laws to oppress Kashmiri's.
 
akheR said:
Yes they are.






And you have been owned because you lost your only rhetoric argument against me lol.
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Then what will be your contribution in helping them get freedom ?
 
jeetu said:
Then what will be your contribution in helping them get freedom ?
Click to expand...

I'm limiting my struggle to the internet arena through propaganda, getting rid off peoples like you (intellectually, of course) who call Kashmiris "terrorists" will be a first step.
 
akheR said:
I'm limiting my struggle to the internet arena through propaganda, getting rid off peoples like you (intellectually, of course) who call Kashmiris "terrorists" will be a first step.
Click to expand...

So no support for freedom fighter of Baluchistan ?
 
I hope your will propaganda will get Kashmir "Azad" from Pakistan and also manage to get land back from China.
I will consider you a terrorist if you cross border and take up arms against India.
 
i can believe the limb amputations, they fed my uncle stones while he was in prison but that was thirty/ fourty years ago.

It's 'funny' that they have subtitles for the people speaking in english too
 
It is sad to see the disconnect of many of us with Kashmir. The Indian media goes all hammer and tongs when Varun Gandhi makes a communal speech, but mass graves found in Kashmir doesn't get the media coverage. Even the anti Modi, secular Indians who keep talking about justice for victims of Gujrat, are not so vocal when it comes to Kashmir. And of course, there are others who shrug it off "because" Pakistan is involved and those killed must be jihadis.

Will love to see Kashmir remain a part of India, but with happy Kashmiris. Not like this.
 
shocking testimonies by some people, horrific stories, i have come across such before, but only in books about occupied kashmir, first time ive seen something that exposes the oppressive and inhumane actions of the indian army in kashmir on television.
 
They said "Villian don't you dare ever say Kashmir should be freed...then they cut off the flesh from my waist and fed it to me"
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FSZwx9vk2sU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
This looks like same situation of palestinians vs israel. feel so sorry for these people.
 
On her way home from school in uniform, accused of aiding militants and raped.
 
I missed it. Someone please post a link to the documentary if there is one, thanks.
 
insaan said:
It is sad to see the disconnect of many of us with Kashmir. The Indian media goes all hammer and tongs when Varun Gandhi makes a communal speech, but mass graves found in Kashmir doesn't get the media coverage. Even the anti Modi, secular Indians who keep talking about justice for victims of Gujrat, are not so vocal when it comes to Kashmir. And of course, there are others who shrug it off "because" Pakistan is involved and those killed must be jihadis.

Will love to see Kashmir remain a part of India, but with happy Kashmiris. Not like this.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir. As a kashmiri from Kotli district on Pakistani side( 8 miles from LOC) I was so disappointed by derogatory tone of some posters here. I salute you man and hope we have more of your kind on both sides who care about people not the piece of land.

Jeetu you might be able to troll a Pakistani from Lahore or Karachi with your bilochistan rants but what about the real victims of kashmir. For once stop scoring points and deal with the matter on hand. Open a thread on bilochistan and discuss it there.
 
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its just a tip of iceberg, i have witnessed worst than this..

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/xs3a3h"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs3a3h_kashmir-s-torture-trail-couchtripper_shortfilms" target="_blank">Kashmir's Torture Trail [couchtripper]</a> <i>by <a
 
Sad to see so many Indians back their government and army when injustice happens. Even Americans arnt usually that blindly patriotic
 
insaan said:
It is sad to see the disconnect of many of us with Kashmir. The Indian media goes all hammer and tongs when Varun Gandhi makes a communal speech, but mass graves found in Kashmir doesn't get the media coverage. Even the anti Modi, secular Indians who keep talking about justice for victims of Gujrat, are not so vocal when it comes to Kashmir. And of course, there are others who shrug it off "because" Pakistan is involved and those killed must be jihadis.

Will love to see Kashmir remain a part of India, but with happy Kashmiris. Not like this.
Click to expand...

Yes agree with you. Open debate should be held and really an unconditional apology is due. Further we need to find ways on how to integrate them in our society, smart government policies are in need.
 
Indian posters boast about secularism and democracy but it's only hypocrisy. Does India have the guts to implement democracy and let Kashmiris decide their fate? If not should stop pandering BS like largest democracy in the world/universe.
 
Kwremb said:
Indian posters boast about secularism and democracy but it's only hypocrisy. Does India have the guts to implement democracy and let Kashmiris decide their fate? If not should stop pandering BS like largest democracy in the world/universe.
Click to expand...

There gonna come down on you like a ton of bricks but your points are valid
 
Senman said:
Yes agree with you. Open debate should be held and really an unconditional apology is due. Further we need to find ways on how to integrate them in our society, smart government policies are in need.
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if yesterdays doc is anything to go by integration is impossible, the people they spoke to have an immense hatred for the indian army and govt, they spoke of freedom, not one person spoke of integration.
 
I'm uploading it on Youtube, Rapidshare & Depositfiles right now, to spread it.
 
And still some people think we can be friends with india.....lol no chance
They never were...never are...and tbh never will be our friends.

Liberals wants Aman ka Asha rubbish...sell outs want MFN status to india

Sort whats happening first, then maybe think about moving forward...otherwise.....Joomme RamRam, bagal main churi
 
Mohsin said:
And still some people think we can be friends with india.....lol no chance
They never were...never are...and tbh never will be our friends.

Liberals wants Aman ka Asha rubbish...sell outs want MFN status to india

Sort whats happening first, then maybe think about moving forward...otherwise.....Joomme RamRam, bagal main churi
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This.
 
Mohsin said:
And still some people think we can be friends with india.....lol no chance
They never were...never are...and tbh never will be our friends.

Liberals wants Aman ka Asha rubbish...sell outs want MFN status to india

Sort whats happening first, then maybe think about moving forward...otherwise.....Joomme RamRam, bagal main churi
Click to expand...

This is off topic, and feel free to ignore it.
This proverb is prevalent in India too, and it means someone who is a hypocrite, someone who talks of peace but has evil motives. It is used a lot by Hindus,among other people, to describe someone who fits that description. We were taught this proverb in schools.

However, I have seen this proverb used by Pakistanis as well, and I just sense (might be wrong) that this is used to describe a typical Hindu, and it is not an all encompassing proverb used for hypocrites in general. Is that true, or is it just my perception?
 
jeetu said:
So no support for freedom fighter of Baluchistan ?
Click to expand...

Abay is Baluchistan a disputed region?

No.

Kashmir while is a disputed region, pretty much accepted by the world and anyone with half a brain.

GTFO seriously, why your ilk are allowed here I'll never know. You make a troll look half clever, true story.
 
insaan said:
This is off topic, and feel free to ignore it.
This proverb is prevalent in India too, and it means someone who is a hypocrite, someone who talks of peace but has evil motives. It is used a lot by Hindus,among other people, to describe someone who fits that description. We were taught this proverb in schools.

However, I have seen this proverb used by Pakistanis as well, and I just sense (might be wrong) that this is used to describe a typical Hindu, and it is not an all encompassing proverb used for hypocrites in general. Is that true, or is it just my perception?
Click to expand...

No no, please dont think im saying this just trying to target people of the Hindu faith...i dont care what faith you are. I meant this from a 'policy POV'

Also dont think my post is practically saying 'i hate all india people', thats not the case....ive met/have nice indian people/friends who care about whats happening.
Just seeing what i saw, made my blood boil and re-enforced my thoughts regarding our relationship with our neighbor.
 
Mohsin said:
No no, please dont think im saying this just trying to target people of the Hindu faith...i dont care what faith you are. I meant this from a 'policy POV'

Also dont think my post is practically saying 'i hate all india people', thats not the case....ive met/have nice indian people/friends who care about whats happening.
Just seeing what i saw, made my blood boil and re-enforced my thoughts regarding our relationship with our neighbor.
Click to expand...

Please don't get me wrong. I didn't question what you meant, was just asking what is the common use of this proverb in Pakistan, does it have the same meaning as used by Indians.

And really not questioning whether you hate Indians. You are very much in your rights to be angry over what is happening in Kashmir. Not here as a proponent of India Pakistan friendship. Unless some burning issues are resolved, there will be hatred among us. And don't want to derail this thread, so won't post on this issue.

@akheR, downloading the video. Thanks.
 
insaan said:
Please don't get me wrong. I didn't question what you meant, was just asking what is the common use of this proverb in Pakistan, does it have the same meaning as used by Indians.

And really not questioning whether you hate Indians. You are very much in your rights to be angry over what is happening in Kashmir. Not here as a proponent of India Pakistan friendship. Unless some burning issues are resolved, there will be hatred among us. And don't want to derail this thread, so won't post on this issue.

@akheR, downloading the video. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Oh OK...yh as far as i know, its said in the same sense
 
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