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Channel 4 exposes India's ugly face to the world in Kashmir's torture trail- CHANNEL

Mohsin said:
And still some people think we can be friends with india.....lol no chance
They never were...never are...and tbh never will be our friends.

Liberals wants Aman ka Asha rubbish...sell outs want MFN status to india

Sort whats happening first, then maybe think about moving forward...otherwise.....Joomme RamRam, bagal main churi
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All well and good but if Pakistan were in a position to offer something better then worrying about the Indian Kashmiris might make more sense. As it is, it seems like we have enough problem keeping our own population happy so maybe we need to uplift ourselves first which would provide an example to strive for.
 
Just finished watching the documentary, some shocking stuff and make mockery of the claim that India is the biggest democracy in the world.

I'm just glad the issue has got some attention in the western media, people of my generation don't even know about the issue of Kashmir in the UK because it is almost the forgotten war and has been brushed under the carpet.

Well done Channel 4
 
The facts mentioned clearly prove India is a terrorist state. The laws bought in to suppress the freedom of the ordinary Kashmiri to the systematic torture, abuse, killings and rape of Kashmiri's takes away the myth these are just rogue elements. It's part of the Indian mentality to hate Kashmiri's.

A teenager throws a stone at an Indian occupying soldier, he's then picked up taken away and never to be seen again. How the families cope not knowing if their son, brother or father is dead or not is impossible for anyone to understand.
 
Clearly a terrorist state, guilty of serious war crimes against an unarmed population.

Funny how major news outlets and western pressure groups are silent against this genocide.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
Isn't it therefore time we put the pressure on then?
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India is a fully fledged Zionist ally now. This is why mainstream western media don't really bring up this issue.

I'm sorry to say but Kashmir like Palestine will only be free with armed resistance. Killing occupying soldiers will make the state think of ending the occupation, history teaches this lesson very well.
 
akheR said:
Minimum we could do is to share these kind of docu. with all our relatives/friends/... EVEN non South Asians.
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Yeah but how effective is that?I often school indians I come across in real life on the kashmir issue but that doesnt change anything.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Yeah but how effective is that?I often school indians I come across in real life on the kashmir issue but that doesnt change anything.
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On the individual level it may look trivial, but if there's a collective effort it can create a conciousness network spreading all around.

And let alone Indians, Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik said that those from Azad Kashmir he met in the UK themselves didn't seem to give a fly about the Kashmir issue(s) and were more occupied in financing the jalsays of Pak. national parties like PML-N, PPP or PTI, so you can't accuse Indians of not looking at it when the primly concerned don't seem to care.
 
Indian Media says Hi

Late on Tuesday, Britain's Channel 4 screened an hour-long TV documentary virtually challenging India's credentials as a democracy, accusing security forces in Jammu & Kashmir of being responsible for disappearances of 8,000 Kashmiri civilians and extra-judicial executions in the past 22 years as well as for rape and torture.

The same day, the UK's Guardian newspaper carried an extended piece on the same subject in a clearly co-ordinated assault against India's human rights record.

The lacunae in the programme, though, was that no neutral party, let alone authorities in J&K or at the Centre were given an opportunity to express their point of view. Strangely, the production team was in the Kashmir valley at the time of last year's stone-pelting incidents in which over 100 youths were killed. There are questions being asked whether they were tipped off by those who planned the demonstrations.

The central figure in the documentary is a dignified, seemingly progressive and secular advocate at the J&K high court, Pervez Imroz. He was portrayed as diligently compiling complaints of disappearances, rape and torture; and filing cases in court on these.

Imroz was in 2005 awarded the Ludovic-Trarriux International Human Rights Prize but was, allegedly, unable to accept this in person because he wasn't issued a passport. He is behind the discovery of more than 2,000 unmarked graves which chief minister Omar Abdullah last year described as being mostly unclaimed bodies of foreign militants. Imroz termed the graves "prima facie evidence of war crimes".

Atta Muhammad Khan, a white-haired man from Bimyar village, described how he was forced to inter bullet-riddled unidentified bodies in the middle of the night.

The programme depicted gruesome examples of torture. One woman claimed on camera that she was raped by security forces when she was 16 and still in school.
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ightmare-in-UK-media/articleshow/14833818.cms
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Yeah but how effective is that?I often school indians I come across in real life on the kashmir issue but that doesnt change anything.
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imo most indians are already educated on the issue, the fact of the matter, as evidenced by previous discussions on kashmir on this forum, is that for most indians Kashmir is an ego issue.

if they were rational about it, they would see how much tax payer money the occupation wastes, how many people have been killed, how much grief has been caused and accept the inevitable.

no politician can do anything about it however as it would be political suicide and an open display of apparent failure, and as is with most third world countries the apparent facade of success and power is vital in maintaining indias apparent strength in the global pecking order.

the eventual subjugation of Kashmir can be thought of as a very small scale manifest destiny, a milestone on the path to the promised land of indian political and economic superiority in the region.

in this context the lack of worth of Kashmiri people, as opposed to what Kashmir represents to the average indian becomes totally understandable.
 
Itachi said:
akheR, you are violating their terms and agreement by uploading and publishing this document. If you have obtained legal permission for this, you must attach that certificate with this post.
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This is your contribution to the thread?
 
Itachi said:
akheR, you are violating their terms and agreement by uploading and publishing this document. If you have obtained legal permission for this, you must attach that certificate with this post.
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:facepalm:

This is why I dislike Indians esp on here. Instead of condemning the disgusting acts of Indian soldiers in Kashmir they prefer the truth to be hidden. These people are no better than the Indian occupying soldiers in Kashmir, they probably enjoy reading news of a Kashmiri girl being raped in her school uniform.
 
ElRaja said:
imo most indians are already educated on the issue, the fact of the matter, as evidenced by previous discussions on kashmir on this forum, is that for most indians Kashmir is an ego issue.

if they were rational about it, they would see how much tax payer money the occupation wastes, how many people have been killed, how much grief has been caused and accept the inevitable.

no politician can do anything about it however as it would be political suicide and an open display of apparent failure, and as is with most third world countries the apparent facade of success and power is vital in maintaining indias apparent strength in the global pecking order.

the eventual subjugation of Kashmir can be thought of as a very small scale manifest destiny, a milestone on the path to the promised land of indian political and economic superiority in the region.

in this context the lack of worth of Kashmiri people, as opposed to what Kashmir represents to the average indian becomes totally understandable.
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I didn't want to post in this thread as some will make it a personal battle against me but let me post a video which will answer your question through Indian Muslim's words

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VixATYhX-UM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

watch it from 4:25.
 
Senman said:
I didn't want to post in this thread as some will make it a personal battle against me but let me post a video which will answer your question through Indian Muslim's words

watch it from 4:25.
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His roti depends on that, he's a slave to his salary as a Bollywood pithoo so he doesn't come across as the most impartial out there, he'll have to answer to Allah when on a question about Kashmir he read the manufactured script by summoning the Pakistan bogeyman like the Indian establishment loves to do.
 
i am afraid that sounds like a cop out to me senman, he cannot just say it becomes complicated at the cost of an average kashmiri when pakistan shows an interest in it, and not explain further.

there is no denying in the past certain forces within the pakistani security forces have exploited the kashmiri situation, however if you read contempory accounts in books, and see the program posted above, the agitators hardly ever mention pakistan.

as far as my knowledge goes hardly any kashmiris on indias side express any desire to unite with pakistan, yet the agitation and trouble remains primarily in defiance of the indian state and army. it is the constant disregard of this truth, that further worsens the problem imo.
 
All I can say after watching that documentary: Shame on India.

Absolutely disgusting from India.
 
ElRaja said:
i am afraid that sounds like a cop out to me senman, he cannot just say it becomes complicated at the cost of an average kashmiri when pakistan shows an interest in it, and not explain further.

there is no denying in the past certain forces within the pakistani security forces have exploited the kashmiri situation, however if you read contempory accounts in books, and see the program posted above, the agitators hardly ever mention pakistan.

as far as my knowledge goes hardly any kashmiris on indias side express any desire to unite with pakistan, yet the agitation and trouble remains primarily in defiance of the indian state and army. it is the constant disregard of this truth, that further worsens the problem imo.
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Ok I understand your views. Let this be the last post of me in this thread as I don't like to involve in circular debates where the points gets recycled again and again. Ok here it goes, as an Indian we (not just me but my friends, which includes persons from all faiths) think its amusing that Pakistan like to talk about Kashmir but not Uighur or Balochistan, while we do appreciate your concern for Kashmiris, the best approach for Pakistan is to take a long step backwards and let Kashmir people and elected leaders deal with this. That is the best thing Pakistan do for Kahmiris.
 
I don't get this argument from Indians about how Pakistanis should first talk about Balochistan. Granted what is happening in Balochistan is not right but that does not mean we can't hold an opinion on Kashmir. It's like saying we are not allowed to talk about Syria or Palestine etc. Easy way to avoid talking about the issues.

Not one poster has said they want Kashmir to become a part of Pakistan but just for it to be INDEPENDENT and to be free from the atrocities being committed by the Indian army.

Is it really that hard to see that what India is doing in Kashmir is wrong? Where is your humanity?
 
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Senman said:
Ok I understand your views. Let this be the last post of me in this thread as I don't like to involve in circular debates where the points gets recycled again and again. Ok here it goes, as an Indian we (not just me but my friends, which includes persons from all faiths) think its amusing that Pakistan like to talk about Kashmir but not Uighur or Balochistan, while we do appreciate your concern for Kashmiris, the best approach for Pakistan is to take a long step backwards and let Kashmir people and elected leaders deal with this. That is the best thing Pakistan do for Kahmiris.
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With all due respect mate, this is a forum, it would be pointless to be on a forum and not air my opinions. You can make sweeping generalisations of what Pakistanis like to talk about or not, but ill talk to you about Balochistan if you make a relevant topic and i feel i can add something to the discourse.

Neither do i understand why you bring up whats best for Pakistan to do, i havent brought up pakistan even once.

Fair enough if you disagree with me, but you are wrong to imply i have no right to say it or that i am being hypocritical.
 
akheR said:
His roti depends on that, he's a slave to his salary as a Bollywood pithoo so he doesn't come across as the most impartial out there, he'll have to answer to Allah when on a question about Kashmir he read the manufactured script by summoning the Pakistan bogeyman like the Indian establishment loves to do.
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there is also a great sense of appeasement from the Indian Muslims to their fellow majority Indian Hindus. I have had several friends from India who were Muslim and they raved about India's secularist mindset to the point that it sounded complete rubbish.
 
is there any doubt left regarding the Kashmir problem after watching this documentary?

i hope the Kashmiris in this documentary are safe
 
Some refugees from Indian Occupied Kashmir in Azad Kashmir:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FYceLi-WYRI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kc8RYZlRPJE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/byxxy-3zNfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gfju07JONvA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I for one think Kashmir valley uniting with Pakistan would end the conflict. Everybody agrees with that.
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
I for one think Kashmir valley uniting with Pakistan would end the conflict. Everybody agrees with that.
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and that is precisely the reason india will never let it go, despite the cost.

if pakistan was not in the equation the kashmir issue would have been solved ages ago.
 
dps2009 said:
and that is precisely the reason india will never let it go, despite the cost.

if pakistan was not in the equation the kashmir issue would have been solved ages ago.
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So you'd support an independent Kashmir, right ?
 
Wasim_Waqar said:
I for one think Kashmir valley uniting with Pakistan would end the conflict. Everybody agrees with that.
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And many of us think otherwise. Where do we go then?

The way things are it is pretty clear whoever has the bigger stick controls it and that is the norm everywhere and not just in Kashmir. Pretty much all territorial disputes are like that. Giving power to the people is a noble idea but it is not how things have and will run. The issue will drag on until there is a massive power shift or humanity as a whole evolves challenging age old concepts of regional/religious patriotism and governance etc.

Personally, i am all for power to the people and fair treatment to all. I wish for a day when people rise above geographical divisions and follow 'give respect, get respect' concept.

We are far away from it however, all we have is dirty power struggle between India, Pakistan and Kashmiri politicians The people will remain as worse as the rest of the 'so called ^azaad^sub continental folks.
 
Many of the actions of the Indian state, police and army in J&K have been reprehensible and more needs to be done to give justice to the victims of their actions.

That said, J&K will never be allowed to cede from the Indian Union and for numerous reasons:

1 - Water, Money and Agriculture: look at what India is spending on Dams or water projects. 10s of billions with much more to come. An independent or a Pak controlled Kashmir would order an immediate stop to Indian water projects in the Valley. Electricity generated from dams already there would no longer be used in northern India.

2 - Poltics: This is one issue which all Indian parties actually agreee on. Even the commies don't go against the status quo here.

3 - The valley's strategic location means it acts as a buffer for India, between itself and Pakistan (and China). An independent Kashmir needs some form of security and as a new nation would not have any sort of decent Army to speak of. So firstly, they'd invite Pakistani troops onto their lands to make sure India does not try and invade to regain land. It would be disaster for India.


4 - those who have power in the world (America, the EU, China, Russia, the OIC nations) do not care. India knows it can do what it wants without any chance of international sanctions.

Barring a fully fledged armed attack by the Pakistani army to 'liberate' J&K, the status quo will remain for at least another 100 years.
 
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akheR said:
So you'd support an independent Kashmir, right ?
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yes but not at the cost of creating another anti indian state . it makes no sense for india to facilitate creation of a country which will harm its geopolitical interests in the region , because its pretty much a given that the independent state will align itself with pak. it all comes back to this:till india and pak don't resolve their own issues, india will not allow a pro-pak independent country to be created from its territory.

plus all the points that gabbar singh raised.
 
Typical Indian responses, but this and that..blah..blah..

When will you people understand what people are really angry about is the brutal crimes of the Indian forces against the Kashmiri people. Not many care if Kashmir is with India or independent, they just want the disgusting state terrorism to end. Just because the resolution isn't easy doesn't mean it's difficult for the Indian state to stop imposing fascist style laws, raping women, torturing kids who throw stones, murdering people and burying them in unmarked graves.
 
India have invested so much in Kashmir to gain benefits such as Electricity. Forget India will ever let Kashmir go. Also we know the mentality of subcontinent residents who feel insult if they have to give up on something even if they are doing wrong. Ego problem.
 
Two main reasons I see for the lack of voices against atrocities in Kashmir.

There is a very vocal shout-down crowd, overly patriotic, which does not let any discussion happen or any decision be taken. Prashant Bhushan, Team Anna member, was beaten up because he supported a plebiscite. The call by the interlocuters appointed by the Govt, for a review of all Acts on Kashmir, was protested by politicial parties. There were calls for treason charges to be framed against Arundhati.
These voices say that they will break the hands and legs of anyone who talks about breaking India. Good, patriotism much appreciated. But they never never talk about breaking the limbs of those who are killing their fellow Indians. Why, because they don't see them as their countrymen. The patriotism is limited only to the land, and not at human beings, supposedly their own countrymen.

This was the same crowd which started protesting because Advani and Jaswant Singh called Jinnah secular! Just a few days back AVBP was protesting against the report by the Govt appointed interlocutors. This crowd decides who is Indian and who is anti-Indian. They decide who is a patriot. According to them Arundhati Roy is a traitor. When one just has to read her to see she is actually patriotic, but doesnt let it come between her judgement over what is wrong.

The other reason is the general disconnect of people with Kashmir. It is not just related to Kashmir. When Tamils were being killed in Sri Lanka, mostly people in Tamil Nadu were protesting against the genocide. People in other parts of India did not share the same grief for the Tamils. Sharmila Iron in Manipur has been fasting since more than a decade against killing of civilians by the paramilitary, but she only got some mention in mainstream media when Anna Hazare started fasting against corruption. Many dalits and other women have been raped and killed, but they don't get the candle light vigils and coverage like the Jessica Lal murder case got, or the Aarushi twin murder case is getting. These news became high profile, because they belong to the middle class, and it is general tendency of people to care for those whom they see as their own. So Kashmiris as not seen as their own, even Darul Uloom Deoband (who talk about Muslims in India) said that Kashmir is an integral part of India, and said nothing about human right violations. The secular voices too, who talk about justice for Gujrat, 1984 etc, somehow don't speak on Kashmir. The mainstream media too, not only finds it boring to talk about Kashmir, but someone like Arnab Goswami, turns his face towards the camera and says, Arundhati Roy and Prashant Bhushan, if you are watching, we want to let you know that we think you are disgusting!

It is understood when an Indian talks about the reasons why Kashmir may not become independent, and there are too many factors involved. And I don't see Kashmir becoming free either. But that comes only later. The first should be what is happening to our so called countrymen in Kashmir. If Kashmir is an Integral Part of India, what about the Kashmiris? Are they some migrants, who have no rights on Kashmir, since it only belongs to us? Will we have the same apathy towards them just because Pakistan is involved? How many more killings or mass graves will it take for us to even start speaking against what is happening there?
 
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Gabbar Singh said:
Many of the actions of the Indian state, police and army in J&K have been reprehensible and more needs to be done to give justice to the victims of their actions.

That said, J&K will never be allowed to cede from the Indian Union and for numerous reasons:

1 - Water, Money and Agriculture: look at what India is spending on Dams or water projects. 10s of billions with much more to come. An independent or a Pak controlled Kashmir would order an immediate stop to Indian water projects in the Valley. Electricity generated from dams already there would no longer be used in northern India.

2 - Poltics: This is one issue which all Indian parties actually agreee on. Even the commies don't go against the status quo here.

3 - The valley's strategic location means it acts as a buffer for India, between itself and Pakistan (and China). An independent Kashmir needs some form of security and as a new nation would not have any sort of decent Army to speak of. So firstly, they'd invite Pakistani troops onto their lands to make sure India does not try and invade to regain land. It would be disaster for India.


4 - those who have power in the world (America, the EU, China, Russia, the OIC nations) do not care. India knows it can do what it wants without any chance of international sanctions.

Barring a fully fledged armed attack by the Pakistani army to 'liberate' J&K, the status quo will remain for at least another 100 years.
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Why 4 reasons you can write 101 reasons to present a case for Indian occupation .But you know it and every one who has opened a history book knows this regardless of how strong the occupier was and regardless how weak & isolated oppressed people were -eventually occupying force which will yield to the demands of oppressed people(ITC Kashmiris).

Agree , it may take time but the reasons which you gave will not deter Kashmiris from fighting against Indian occupation .If Kashmiris have fought 60 + years against Indian occupation what stops them from fighting for next 600 yrs ,if it takes that long for Indian state to accept Kashmiri demands for freedom and justice.

sent from my Galaxy SII with Sleek ICS ROM
 
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India has taken Kashmir forever.No amount of propaganda from can actually change the status quo.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
That said, J&K will never be allowed to cede from the Indian Union and for numerous reasons:

4 - those who have power in the world (America, the EU, China, Russia, the OIC nations) do not care. India knows it can do what it wants without any chance of international sanctions.
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There reasons for India to keep Kashmir are probably as numerous as India's own population, read one from "the internet Hindus", who say that rishi Kashyap gave his name to the Valley and, therefore, it belongs to the Pandits and other Hindus like Tamils, Marathas or Malayalis more than it belongs to the Kashmiri Muslims "invadors of the 14th century."

But from an indigenous POV, only that particular point is important - to rain internal awareness and implement the UN resolution, doubt that Kashmiris are waiting their azaadi in a spicy Indian plate.

dps2009 said:
yes but not at the cost of creating another anti indian state . it makes no sense for india to facilitate creation of a country which will harm its geopolitical interests in the region , because its pretty much a given that the independent state will align itself with pak. it all comes back to this:till india and pak don't resolve their own issues, india will not allow a pro-pak independent country to be created from its territory.

plus all the points that gabbar singh raised.
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What do you think that with that population and that resources Kashmir would do ? Send an Army to destroy India ? Embark in some collective ghazwa e Hind and conquer "Delhi" ? :facepalm:
Kashmiris have always been a peaceful bunch, they have just been alienated because of the deeds of your Army.

And obviously it will "align" (the Cold War semantics isn't innocent I guess) itself with Pak., not because Pakistan did some marvellous job but India did the opposite, and it will probably be some economic cooperation at worst.

msd89 said:
India has taken Kashmir forever.No amount of propaganda from can actually change the status quo.
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The Article 1 of the treaty of Amritsar (March 16, 1846) stipulated that J&K, a gift from the British, belonged to the Dogras "forever", but history turned out to be more ironic and it lasted a bit more than one century ; your own country belong to the British for way more than that, and the British were the world's superpower of the time, but WWII was fatal to them and they had to share the independent cakes with their ex-subjects - what I'm saying, never under-estimate the independent nature of world history.

And propaganda ? Channel 4 isn't into propaganda ; your media, on the opposite, totally is.
Your govt. interdictions in the "democratic" India (well, Kashmir isn't India I guess) too don't work anymore ; you could block SMSes, delete Facebook pages, ... but the information is, nowadays, roaming freely and without curfews.
Al Jazeera, some days ago:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0imVql3i3Sw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A local friend just told me few hours ago that a 4 months pregnant woman has been raped in Ganderbal, the same place where, some days ago, a "Hizbul Mujahideen commander", Ghulam Nabi War, was made shaheed.
You can call it propaganda, intellectual stone-pelting or rhetoric chest-thumping, but, have my word, you're not hiding dirt under the carpet, but hiding a burning fire by throwing oil on it, and don't know about Kashmir the geographical area, but you already lost a large chunk of Kashmir's living soul already.
 
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What disturbs me also is the apathy of British Pakistanis on this issue. It Is a must to spread these sort of documentaries so people can see the reality.

So sad and depressing.
 
Also what sort of morality do these 1/2 million soldiers have. I have to seriously question their upbringings.
 
Didn't Khurshid Kasuri, the Foreign Minister under Musharraf and now member of PTI say that the government was a signature away from settling the Kashmir issue ?

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...ris-khurshid-mahmud-kasuri-india-and-pakistan

Infact here's the article.

LAHORE: For most people, Kashmir is an intractable problem dividing India and Pakistan. What they don't know is that the two countries have actually an accord on Kashmir ready and had almost unveiled it in 2007.

Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, who was Pervez Musharraf's foreign minister from 2002 to 2007, on Friday told The Times of India of this hush-hush deal that was cobbled together through secret parleys held in India, Pakistan and several foreign capitals for more than three years and could have resolved the sub-continent's thorniest security and political dispute, had not the anti-Musharraf upsurge triggered by the sacking of the chief justice convulsed Pakistan.

Kasuri said he has never spoken of this track-II success earlier, other than saying that he knew of a possible way to resolve the Kashmir problem that was acceptable to both countries.

Kasuri said in an exclusive interview that negotiators from Islamabad and New Delhi had quietly toiled away for three years, talking to each other and Kashmiri representatives from the Indian side as well as Kashmiris settled overseas to reach what he described as the "only possible solution to the Kashmir issue".

He said the two sides had agreed to full demilitarisation of both Jammu & Kashmir as well as Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, which Islamabad refers to as Azad Kashmir. In addition, a package of loose autonomy that stopped short of the 'azadi' and self-governance aspirations, had been agreed on and was to be introduced on both sides of the disputed frontier. "We agreed on a point between complete independence and autonomy," he said.

Kasuri said that both countries, realizing the sensitivity of such a deal, had agreed not to declare victory or tom-tom the negotiations. He said that hardline separatist Syed Ali Shah Gilani was the only Kashmiri leader who refused to come on board. "He would accept nothing but merger with Pakistan, which ironically is something we too wanted but knew wasn't practical. I once had a seven-to-eight hour meeting with him and even Musharraf met him but he refused to budge," Kasuri said. He refused to give details of the stance other moderate Kashmiri leaders adopted.

Kasuri said almost all the actors on the Kashmiri stage were on board the accord that was to be signed during a visit by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to Islamabad that was scheduled for February-March 2007 but never happened.

"I advised the president that inviting the PM at that time would not have been possible. And that we should wait for a more peaceful moment to announce the plan otherwise all the hard work of three years by the two sides would be wasted," he said, referring to the time when Musharraf was under siege by a country-wide lawyers' campaign that had transformed itself into an anti-dictator movement. He said that since the Opposition was on a roll against Musharraf at that time, any peace plan would have been rejected by them as a "sell-out to India".

Kasuri — who is from one of the country's pre-eminent political families and whose father drafted Pakistan's constitution — refused to give details of other aspects of the solution or name Indian officials involved in the deal, saying that since he felt it was the only way Kashmir could be resolved, it could be starting point of next round of talks. He said the reason PM Gilani had appointed Riyaz Mohammed Khan, the foreign secretary under Kasuri, as the track-II special negotiator was because he was one of the key architects of the secret Kashmir pact.
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Indian army commits Delhi bus type rapes in Kashmir every day but you dont see protests from Indians , their media ....why ???
 

For those who dont understand the situation and not sure who to believe. This is a neutral source and a must see docu.
 
lurker20 said:
I believe this video has the nos:
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1. India has over 2.1 million people including reserves in the army, hes around 1 million people off the mark.

2. He has shown no proof or even given a figure.

3. He's Indian, I cited independent sources. You can aslo check Al Jazeeras report today.

Please Im not an Indian brainwashed, you will need to do much better if you want to debate.
 
KingKhanWC said:
1. India has over 2.1 million people including reserves in the army, hes around 1 million people off the mark.

2. He has shown no proof or even given a figure.

3. He's Indian, I cited independent sources. You can aslo check Al Jazeeras report today.

Please Im not an Indian brainwashed, you will need to do much better if you want to debate.
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He gave his no - 270k (all total including CRPF, Army & BSF)
 
lurker20 said:
He gave his no - 270k (all total including CRPF, Army & BSF)
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Fine, I didn't watch all the way.

This is not independant but the voice of a Indian. He claims this figure is from the ISI lol. So western and world media now take the ISI as factual?

Even if there are 270k thats a huge number.
 
KingKhanWC said:
1. India has over 2.1 million people including reserves in the army, hes around 1 million people off the mark.

2. He has shown no proof or even given a figure.

3. He's Indian, I cited independent sources. You can aslo check Al Jazeeras report today.

Please Im not an Indian brainwashed, you will need to do much better if you want to debate.
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[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] :) I feel for you and I say that with some respect. You are spending all your waking moments trying to move mountains in this Kashmir issue by typing away on this forum. Yet, nothing you write here is going to make a difference. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

Instead what could make a difference is if you write to your Foreign Minister and PM, asking them why not one country from the Ummah has condemned India for revoking 370. Ask them why the foreign office is not demanding of the King of Saudi Arabia to call a press conference and blast India.

Ask Respected Pak FM Qureshi ji, why he is not blasting the Shiekh of UAE for not calling a press conference and highlighting Pakistan's pain regarding Indian Union Territory of Kashmir.

Ask Qureshi ji to demand Iranian President to go on TV and speak about Kashmir.

Ask Imran Khan Saheb ji, to please call OIC and demand them to call an emergency session where they will call Imran Khan Saheb ji and Qureshi ji as Guest of honor, and from where Imran Khan Saheb and Qureshi ji, can give a joint statement along with all members of OIC condemning India and giving India a deadline to roll back revocation of 370.

Ask Imran Khan Saheb ji, to call Chinese President Xi Jinping Saheb ji, and tell him to immediately hold a press conference and call out India for revoking 370. In that conversation Imran Khan Saheb, can also kindly remind Xi Jingping ji to give out a strong statement condemning himself for the atrocities against Uighur muslims in China.

Also have Imran Khan Saheb have Trump and Putin hold press conferences and give voice to all of Pakistan's problems.

Most importantly, since Pakistan has always spoken and fought for the Palestinian brothers and sisters, I am saddened that Palestinian brothers and sisters have totally ignored your pain regarding revoking 370 in Indian Kashmir. Time to give Palestinian Authority leadership a call from Pakistan Foreign Office, demanding of them to hold a press conference and demand India to roll back 370.

The above actions are the only ways you can make any difference on the ground.

Because at this time, Modi and Shah have moved on from revoking 370. They are busy preparing the next gift for Pakistan, which is also a very old issue :)

Good luck with the above action items.
 
xbronze said:
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]
Because at this time, Modi and Shah have moved on from revoking 370. They are busy preparing the next gift for Pakistan, which is also a very old issue :).
Click to expand...

Let me guess - IWT!
 
xbronze said:
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] :) I feel for you and I say that with some respect. You are spending all your waking moments trying to move mountains in this Kashmir issue by typing away on this forum. Yet, nothing you write here is going to make a difference. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

Instead what could make a difference is if you write to your Foreign Minister and PM, asking them why not one country from the Ummah has condemned India for revoking 370. Ask them why the foreign office is not demanding of the King of Saudi Arabia to call a press conference and blast India.

Ask Respected Pak FM Qureshi ji, why he is not blasting the Shiekh of UAE for not calling a press conference and highlighting Pakistan's pain regarding Indian Union Territory of Kashmir.

Ask Qureshi ji to demand Iranian President to go on TV and speak about Kashmir.

Ask Imran Khan Saheb ji, to please call OIC and demand them to call an emergency session where they will call Imran Khan Saheb ji and Qureshi ji as Guest of honor, and from where Imran Khan Saheb and Qureshi ji, can give a joint statement along with all members of OIC condemning India and giving India a deadline to roll back revocation of 370.

Ask Imran Khan Saheb ji, to call Chinese President Xi Jinping Saheb ji, and tell him to immediately hold a press conference and call out India for revoking 370. In that conversation Imran Khan Saheb, can also kindly remind Xi Jingping ji to give out a strong statement condemning himself for the atrocities against Uighur muslims in China.

Also have Imran Khan Saheb have Trump and Putin hold press conferences and give voice to all of Pakistan's problems.

Most importantly, since Pakistan has always spoken and fought for the Palestinian brothers and sisters, I am saddened that Palestinian brothers and sisters have totally ignored your pain regarding revoking 370 in Indian Kashmir. Time to give Palestinian Authority leadership a call from Pakistan Foreign Office, demanding of them to hold a press conference and demand India to roll back 370.

The above actions are the only ways you can make any difference on the ground.

Because at this time, Modi and Shah have moved on from revoking 370. They are busy preparing the next gift for Pakistan, which is also a very old issue :)

Good luck with the above action items.
Click to expand...

Dont feel for me, no pandit extremist here in the UK would abuse me or any Indian for that matter. I am posting on time pass, passing time and it's my right to defend innocent people which is what Im doing.

Ive been on this forum for a decade and my main interest is cricket but I will pass time on such subjects too. I feel for you writing long essays full of nonsense because you are in some cuckoo land thinking IOK will become Europe in a few months when in reality it will become like Syria in a few years. The people will never call themselves Indians and will continue to resist until judgement day, even you know this.

Pakistan can only highlight the issue and this is enough to upset Indians and make them do foolish things as they have done now.

When you soldiers keep getting killed, then please write their obituaries, I will be happy to read your posts then but now it's embarrasing to read such crap.
 
Btw [MENTION=140457]xbronze[/MENTION] I tagged you on a thread asking when will India take back their land occupied by Pakistan(Azad Kashmir) but no long essays on the thread but silence from you? Glad you realise your army is cowardly and can only attack unarmed civllian populations.
 
Wicket Hit said:
There is nothing to "expose" there. It's a given fact that Indian forces have dealt with Kashmiri terrorism in a high handed and brutal way.

But that's how Indian or any third world forces deal with any insurgency. Thats what these guys with high school education are capable of. Has China dealt with the Tibet or Uygur rebellion in a more humane way? Of course, not.
Click to expand...

The main difference in what’s going on in Kashmir vs other third world countries is that there’s been a media blackout in Kashmir ever since Modi and his extremist fascists came to power. No other third world forces have committed genocide the way India has with callous and devious disregard for any semblance of human rights. It’s illogical to even compare China with India. As India’s more evolved and wise neighbor, China is far more tolerant in its dealings within it’s territories as well as with India, otherwise it could flex it’s powerful military muscles against India and teach it a lesson it will never forget.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Dont feel for me, no pandit extremist here in the UK would abuse me or any Indian for that matter. I am posting on time pass, passing time and it's my right to defend innocent people which is what Im doing.

Ive been on this forum for a decade and my main interest is cricket but I will pass time on such subjects too. I feel for you writing long essays full of nonsense because you are in some cuckoo land thinking IOK will become Europe in a few months when in reality it will become like Syria in a few years. The people will never call themselves Indians and will continue to resist until judgement day, even you know this.

Pakistan can only highlight the issue and this is enough to upset Indians and make them do foolish things as they have done now.

When you soldiers keep getting killed, then please write their obituaries, I will be happy to read your posts then but now it's embarrasing to read such crap.
Click to expand...

So why are all muslim nations keeping quiet? That to me proves that there is no atrocity committed in Indian Kashmir.
 
Eye_Done said:
Indian army commits Delhi bus type rapes in Kashmir every day but you dont see protests from Indians , their media ....why ???
Click to expand...

Ever occured to you that possibly because they are only happening in your fertile imagination. If these things were happening do you really thing the Arab/muslim nations would bestow their nations highest civiian honor on the Indian PM?
 
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