'Did you kill Adil Pathan?' Last video of J&K police constable being grilled by terrorists emerges

[Mr.Q]

'Did you kill Adil Pathan?' Last video of J&K police constable being grilled by terrorists emerges

A chilling video of Jammu and Kashmir police constable Mohammad Saleem Shah, who was abducted and killed by terrorists in Kulgam district, emerged on Sunday.

In the last video of, Saleem was grilled by the terrorists (not seen in the video) about the 2015 encounter of top Jaish commander Adil Pathan.

In the horrifying footage, Saleem Shah was seen answering the terrorists' questions and accepted to have played a role in gunning down Pathan, the brother of Jaish-e-Mohammad's (JeM) Kashmir operations chief Mufti Ashghar, on October 8, 2015. It was believed that Pathan was tasked by Ashghar and JeM chief Masood Azhar to recruit youngsters and revive the outfit, edged out after its cadres were found involved in the then Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf's assassination bid in 2003.

"Aap maante ho ki aapne Adil Pathan ko shaheed karwaya' (Do you accept that you killed Adil Pathan?)," the terrorists were heard questioning Saleem Shah.
"Haan Haan ..Kabool karta ju ..zabardasti kay bina kabool karte hu…mei manta hu (Yes, I accept. Without any pressure, I accept)," Saleem was seen replying to the terrorist's question, who was not visible in the video.

Earlier on Sunday, the three terrorists who were believed to be behind the torture and killing of Saleem Shah were killed in an encounter with security forces in Kulgam district, Jammu and Kashmir DGP SP Vaid said.

Saleem Shah, who was on leave, was abducted from his home at Mutalhama village of Kulgam district on Friday night. His body was recovered from neighbouring Odipora Qaimoh village on Saturday. Police said the body of the martyred policeman bore severe torture marks indicating that he was brutally tortured to death by the terrorists. A lone breadwinner of his family, he is survived by aged parents, two brothers and one unmarried sister.

Shah had joined the services in 2016 and after completing his basic training he was posted to District Police Lines Pulwama. However, on Friday evening, terrorists stormed his house and abducted him at gun point before killing him mercilessly.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...e-being-grilled-by-terrorists-emerges-2640230

 

[Mr.Q]

RIP, your sacrifice will not be forgotten...

 

[Varun]

Whatever.

Should just give Kashmir away and let them squabble among themselves or with Pakistan.

#HadEnough.

 

[Mr.Q]

Whatever.

Should just give Kashmir away and let them squabble among themselves or with Pakistan.

#HadEnough.

The destabilised Kashmir will then be used as a base to carry out attacks on India. And how can we forget the 1000s of people who laid down their lives to protect their motherland.

 

[Varun]

The destabilised Kashmir will then be used as a base to carry out attacks on India.

Just ensure the wall between us and them is tall enough then.

And how can we forget the 1000s of people who laid down their lives to protect their motherland.

Follow my plan and that figure will remain in the 1000s and not the 1000000s with no end in sight.

 

[TM Riddle]

Just ensure the wall between us and them is tall enough then.



Follow my plan and that figure will remain in the 1000s and not the 1000000s with no end in sight.

Not sure if trolling or what. Giving up Kashmir would be the biggest blunder India would ever commit.
Even Rahul Gandhi has more sense.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Whatever.

Should just give Kashmir away and let them squabble among themselves or with Pakistan.

#HadEnough.

35 to 40% of J and K are non muslims. What about them?

 

[Hitman]

Earlier on Sunday, the three terrorists who were believed to be behind the torture and killing of Saleem Shah were killed in an encounter with security forces in Kulgam district, Jammu and Kashmir DGP SP Vaid said.

Got what they deserved.

 

[slipcatch]

35 to 40% of J and K are non muslims. What about them?

60% are muslims, what about them?

 

[enkidu_]

35 to 40% of J and K are non muslims. What about them?

Non-Muslims are more like around 30% as per the 2011 Indian census :

https://www.census2011.co.in/data/religion/state/1-jammu-and-kashmir.html

and there are anti-State Hindus as well :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pdmqA9IMGxg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and :

It is not the first time a Hindu militant has been killed in Jammu and Kashmir.

In August 2005, the army killed Anar Singh, a Hindu special police official-turned-militant in Tengali village in Kashtiwar. In the same year two Hindu militants surrendered before the army in Jammu and the preceding year two others had dropped their guns before the security forces. In 2006, security forces killed Kuldeep Kumar Sharma alias KK alias Kamran, the deputy district commander of Hizb-ul-Mujhadeen for Doda.

Sources said money, power and bravado had been driving some Hindu youth to join the militant ranks in Jammu and Kashmir. Confidential documents revealed that over a dozen Hindu militants were active in different parts of Jammu region of which some have been killed.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-hindu-face-of-jihad-in-kashmir-killed-1570138

 

[Varun]

35 to 40% of J and K are non muslims. What about them?

We'll keep them - those areas are fairly 'Indian' anyway - Jammu, Ladakh et al. In fact, Ladakh is a Buddhish majority, not sure why it's been dragged into this endless catfight.

 

[Pakistanian]

The destabilised Kashmir will then be used as a base to carry out attacks on India. And how can we forget the 1000s of people who laid down their lives to protect their motherland.

There won't be any attacks on India after Kashmir becomes free because they'll get what they want - independence.

This is a liberation war like the Bengali liberation and Kurdish liberation movements. Kurds have attacked Turkish and Arab soldiers and civilians but their end goal is a Free Kurdistan similarly Bengali separatists attacked Pakistani soldiers and because of that they've been able to create Bangladesh.

 

[Pakistanian]

We'll keep them - those areas are fairly 'Indian' anyway - Jammu, Ladakh et al. In fact, Ladakh is a Buddhish majority, not sure why it's been dragged into this endless catfight.

Jammu is more than 30% Muslim and some districts close to Kashmir are majority Muslim, in fact those districts have the most separatist activity. So There would have to be a partition of Jammu - the pro Indian ones can stay with India and the pro Kashmir ones can join an independent and sovereign Kashmir.

 

[enkidu_]

We'll keep them - those areas are fairly 'Indian' anyway - Jammu, Ladakh et al. In fact, Ladakh is a Buddhish majority, not sure why it's been dragged into this endless catfight.

J&K is divided into 22 districts, 17 being Muslim majority, 4 being Hindu majority (all in the Jammu region : Jammu/Kathua/Samba/Udhampur) and 1, Leh district, being Buddhist majority ; the other district of the Ladakh region, Kargil, is Muslim majority.

Also, many Ladakhi activists have talked about separating themselves from J&K because of ethnic/cultural differences.

 

[waqar goraya]

Indian occupied Kashmir's division on the basis of districts seems a very good proposal. May be India could have its 4 Hindu majority districts and rest of Jammu and Kashmir should decide their fate whether they want to be independent or with Pakistan.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Indian occupied Kashmir's division on the basis of districts seems a very good proposal. May be India could have its 4 Hindu majority districts and rest of Jammu and Kashmir should decide their fate whether they want to be independent or with Pakistan.

I like the optimism, but discussion by few posters doesn't make it a proposal. Nothing is going to change without a decisive war, online diplomacy notwithstanding.

 

[waqar goraya]

I like the optimism, but discussion by few posters doesn't make it a proposal. Nothing is going to change without a decisive war, online diplomacy notwithstanding.

Too bad, a very generous proposal has been declined. Indian intransigence has always been a problem in resolving Kashmir dispute.

I thought we could avoid war, at least, online.

 

[Moh@n]

There won't be any attacks on India after Kashmir becomes free because they'll get what they want - independence.

The agitation is happening only in the Kashmir valley, which is like 15% of the entire Kashmir region.

There is zero justification for this independence hogwash. If I for example, start shouting that my house should be declared an independent country, would I be granted independence? Name one right that they don't have. In fact, they have more rights than any non Kashmiri residing in India.

 

[slipcatch]

The agitation is happening only in the Kashmir valley, which is like 15% of the entire Kashmir region.

There is zero justification for this independence hogwash. If I for example, start shouting that my house should be declared an independent country, would I be granted independence? Name one right that they don't have. In fact, they have more rights than any non Kashmiri residing in India.

Probably one of the most dumbest analogy to justify occupation.

 

[Pakistanian]

The agitation is happening only in the Kashmir valley, which is like 15% of the entire Kashmir region.

There is zero justification for this independence hogwash. If I for example, start shouting that my house should be declared an independent country, would I be granted independence? Name one right that they don't have. In fact, they have more rights than any non Kashmiri residing in India.

That couldn't be further from the truth and shows the ignorance Indians have about Jammu and Kashmir.

There is a lot of violence and separatist activities in the Muslim districts of Jammu, some prominent leaders of the independence movement are actually from Jammu. It's also funny how Indians try to separate the Muslim districts of Jammu from Kashmir when in fact the whole movement started with the Poonch rebellion.

You can ask our resident Jammu member [MENTION=139867]dauntless[/MENTION] of how they feel about India.

 

[enkidu_]

The agitation is happening only in the Kashmir valley, which is like 15% of the entire Kashmir region.

There is zero justification for this independence hogwash. If I for example, start shouting that my house should be declared an independent country, would I be granted independence? Name one right that they don't have. In fact, they have more rights than any non Kashmiri residing in India.

Out of the 12,5 million pop. of the state (2011 census), the Kashmir Valley pop is estimated at nearly 7 millions.

Also, in Jammu as well the Muslims are not all pro India. In fact, the very beginning of the independence movement goes back to the Poonch revolt and the local Muslims revolting against the Dogra rule (who have been able to rule by betraying the Sikhs for the British, btw). They're the ones who have established "Azad Jammu & Kashmir".

And why would young men sacrifice their life for independence if there was no beginning of "justification" ?

 

[Mr.Q]

Just ensure the wall between us and them is tall enough then.



Follow my plan and that figure will remain in the 1000s and not the 1000000s with no end in sight.

I have a better plan. Throw article 370 out of the window and see what happens. So many terrorists and terrorist organisations are hiding behind it.

There won't be any attacks on India after Kashmir becomes free because they'll get what they want - independence.

This is a liberation war like the Bengali liberation and Kurdish liberation movements. Kurds have attacked Turkish and Arab soldiers and civilians but their end goal is a Free Kurdistan similarly Bengali separatists attacked Pakistani soldiers and because of that they've been able to create Bangladesh.

Come on man be realistic. You think Kashmir will be an independent state? If it’s separated from India it’ll become a part of Pakistan. Your army and the terrorist organisations will then find some new reasons to fight against India. Kashmir will become a breeding ground for terrorism if it becomes a part of Pakistan. I’m not making hollow arguments. Consider the case of Quetta and Peshawar.

India injects a very large sum of money to maintain and revive Kashmir’s economy. You guys won’t be able to do that and it is in such circumstances that extremism and terrorism gains grip. Your India focused foreign policy isn’t doing anyone including yourself any good.

There are other geographical issues too but I don’t want to go into all that.

 

[Moh@n]

Probably one of the most dumbest analogy to justify occupation.

Probably if you could spare some time to study history, you would know who the actual occupants were. Here is something you should begin with:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-16069078

 

[dhonixi]

Showing their true colors. Now killing their own religion brothers in the name of the fighting. And people have audacity to ask India to leave kashmir because it muslim majority valley. It's all about power in valley.

 

[slipcatch]

Showing their true colors. Now killing their own religion brothers in the name of the fighting. And people have audacity to ask India to leave kashmir because it muslim majority valley. It's all about power in valley.

Do not confuse audacity with guts and rights.

 

[slipcatch]

Probably if you could spare some time to study history, you would know who the actual occupants were. Here is something you should begin with:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-16069078

If it wasn't an occupation then people wouldn't be fighting and India wouldn't have 7,000,000+ army to control 15% of the population.

This may sound good to Indian on India's media but lets not kid yourself.

 

[Moh@n]

If it wasn't an occupation then people wouldn't be fighting and India wouldn't have 7,000,000+ army to control 15% of the population.

This may sound good to Indian on India's media but lets not kid yourself.

7 million+ army? We don't even have those many army personnel in total. Troll somewhere else please.

 

[Pakistanian]

7 million+ army? We don't even have those many army personnel in total. Troll somewhere else please.

700,000.

India has over half a million troops occupying Kashmir, a little valley that is not even a fraction of India's total population.

 

[troodon]

Brainwashed separatists do not even spare their brethren who are in police.

Shame on them and the powers that fund and train these jarheads into doing despicable acts.

A generation of youth are brainwashed into us vs them philosophy.It’s a matter of Islam vs Hinduism there. No sugar coatIng.

 

[Moh@n]

700,000.

India has over half a million troops occupying Kashmir, a little valley that is not even a fraction of India's total population.

And which Pakistani came to India and counted these 700,000?

 

[Pakistanian]

7 million+ army? We don't even have those many army personnel in total. Troll somewhere else please.

700,000.

India has over half a million troops occupying Kashmir, a little valley that is not even a fraction of India's total population.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Non-Muslims are more like around 30% as per the 2011 Indian census :

https://www.census2011.co.in/data/religion/state/1-jammu-and-kashmir.html

and there are anti-State Hindus as well :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pdmqA9IMGxg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and :


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-hindu-face-of-jihad-in-kashmir-killed-1570138

That doesnot take into account kashmiri pandits displaced from the valley.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We'll keep them - those areas are fairly 'Indian' anyway - Jammu, Ladakh et al. In fact, Ladakh is a Buddhish majority, not sure why it's been dragged into this endless catfight.

That leaves only the valley. Thats only 18% of the total area of J and K thats under Indian control.

 

[Pakistanian]

And which Pakistani came to India and counted these 700,000?

Many Kashmiris have reported this figure and this article also mentions some 700000 indian troops in Kashmir.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-kashmir-is-this-worlds-first-mass-blinding

 

[cricketjoshila]

700,000.

India has over half a million troops occupying Kashmir, a little valley that is not even a fraction of India's total population.

Lets remove the army so that Pakistani army can just walk in. The largest proportion of army is along the loc.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There won't be any attacks on India after Kashmir becomes free because they'll get what they want - independence.

This is a liberation war like the Bengali liberation and Kurdish liberation movements. Kurds have attacked Turkish and Arab soldiers and civilians but their end goal is a Free Kurdistan similarly Bengali separatists attacked Pakistani soldiers and because of that they've been able to create Bangladesh.

Almost the entire Bengali population was againist Pakistan.

Here the terrorists have killed 100s and displaced 100s of 1000s of Kashmiri hindus

The non muslim population is hardly interested in this so called struggle.

Even the Shias are not much in favour as the Leh Ladakh area is peaceful.

This is mainly a sunni muslim religious war not a freedom strugglem

 

[Pakistanian]

That leaves only the valley. Thats only 18% of the total area of J and K thats under Indian control.

Read the comments above rebutting that. This is just Indian ignorance, there are pro freedom muslim districts in Jammu and they've seen a hotbed of separatist activity, only 4 districts in jammu are Hindu majority and they happen to be nore populous thus skewing the pop. of jammu to a hindu majority. Kargil is also Muslim majority, in fact the population of Ladakh is evenly split between Buddhists and Muslims and a lot of Ladakhis feel culturally distinct from Indian.

Indians tend to oversimplify Jammu and Ladakh by claiming that they're onlyHindu and Buddhist when they both have large Muslom minorities and Muslim districts, especially in the case of Jammu the muslim majority districts and the chenab valley region want independence.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Jammu is more than 30% Muslim and some districts close to Kashmir are majority Muslim, in fact those districts have the most separatist activity. So There would have to be a partition of Jammu - the pro Indian ones can stay with India and the pro Kashmir ones can join an independent and sovereign Kashmir.

During partition 35% of east pakistan was hindu. Didnt matter. It was still made part of pakistan.

So Jammu and Ladakh isnt going anywhere.

 

[enkidu_]

That doesnot take into account kashmiri pandits displaced from the valley.

Many of the Kashmiri Pandits accounted already left way before, for diverse reasons, like peoples migrate for their socio economic reason. The most famous of the modern Kashmiri Pandit family, the Nehru's, belonged to such cases. Even if we admit all Kashmiri Pandits and their descendants (those who migrated before the turn-oil/those kicked out by Muslims), they're around 200 000, while J&K state population is 12.5 millions, and the Valley, 7 millions. In few words, they won't weight that much in a referendum/plebiscite.

Also consider that :

1) Jammu itself was Muslim majority before the Dogra ethnic cleansing, as Christopher Snedden has shown, nowadays it's 1/3 Muslim ;

2) if you take into account the Kashmiri Pandits, you will also have to take into account the ethnic Kashmiris living in Pak Punjab, the "Butt's", "the Dar's", ... the Sharif's might be the only ethnic Kashmiris to choose India though ;

 

[Pakistanian]

During partition 35% of east pakistan was hindu. Didnt matter. It was still made part of pakistan.

So Jammu and Ladakh isnt going anywhere.

We're not talking about partition anymore, it's been 70 + years also the British took into consideration if the muslim.majority districts neighbored Pakistan which is the case for Jammu.

Even if you deny them freedom that just means the separatist movement wouldn't stop in Muslim parts of Jammu even if only Kashmir becomes free

 

[cricketjoshila]

Read the comments above rebutting that. This is just Indian ignorance, there are pro freedom muslim districts in Jammu and they've seen a hotbed of separatist activity, only 4 districts in jammu are Hindu majority and they happen to be nore populous thus skewing the pop. of jammu to a hindu majority. Kargil is also Muslim majority, in fact the population of Ladakh is evenly split between Buddhists and Muslims and a lot of Ladakhis feel culturally distinct from Indian.

Indians tend to oversimplify Jammu and Ladakh by claiming that they're onlyHindu and Buddhist when they both have large Muslom minorities and Muslim districts, especially in the case of Jammu the muslim majority districts and the chenab valley region want independence.

Any idea what was the non muslim population of Sindh or East Pakistan in 1947?

 

[cricketjoshila]

We're not talking about partition anymore, it's been 70 + years also the British took into consideration if the muslim.majority districts neighbored Pakistan which is the case for Jammu.

Even if you deny them freedom that just means the separatist movement wouldn't stop in Muslim parts of Jammu even if only Kashmir becomes free

J and K is part of India and no one is going to change it by force. Thats the truth.

Why not talk about the partition? Pakistan accepted it as it is. Why refusimg the same now?

 

[enkidu_]

During partition 35% of east pakistan was hindu. Didnt matter. It was still made part of pakistan.

So Jammu and Ladakh isnt going anywhere.

Slight majority of the Gurdaspur district in Punjab was Muslim, yet it went to India because Sir Radcliffe found that otherwise the map wouldn't look good.

Gurdaspur also happened to be the only land access to the Kashmir Valley from where the Indian Army could send equipment/troops in 1948.

 

[Pakistanian]

Almost the entire Bengali population was againist Pakistan.

Here the terrorists have killed 100s and displaced 100s of 1000s of Kashmiri hindus

The non muslim population is hardly interested in this so called struggle.

Even the Shias are not much in favour as the Leh Ladakh area is peaceful.

This is mainly a sunni muslim religious war not a freedom strugglem

The entire Kashmiri population except for the 5 %ers aka Pandits are against India and want freedom. Not all Bengalis were opposed to Pakistan, there were Razakars supporting Pakistan in large numbers and also a large minority of west Pakistani and indian muslims settled in east Pakistan supporting Pakistan and some of them were massacred by your people. You will never get 100% of a populationa against the occupying force, there are 5th columnists in every conflict zone


Also lol @ yoi trying to portray this as a sectarian conflict, this is an ethnic one and shia Kashmiris are just as anti India as the sunnis. You guys are using divide and rule tactics on Kashmiris something you learned from your British masters.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Many of the Kashmiri Pandits accounted already left way before, for diverse reasons, like peoples migrate for their socio economic reason. The most famous of the modern Kashmiri Pandit family, the Nehru's, belonged to such cases. Even if we admit all Kashmiri Pandits and their descendants (those who migrated before the turn-oil/those kicked out by Muslims), they're around 200 000, while J&K state population is 12.5 millions, and the Valley, 7 millions. In few words, they won't weight that much in a referendum/plebiscite.

Also consider that :

1) Jammu itself was Muslim majority before the Dogra ethnic cleansing, as Christopher Snedden has shown, nowadays it's 1/3 Muslim ;

2) if you take into account the Kashmiri Pandits, you will also have to take into account the ethnic Kashmiris living in Pak Punjab, the "Butt's", "the Dar's", ... the Sharif's might be the only ethnic Kashmiris to choose India though ;

The displace Pandits number around 300k in 1990. Likely will have increased their population in 30 years and will be close to 500k or nearly 5% of population.

1.Entire kashmir was hindu before invasiob of Muslims. The ways of sikander butshikan and his butchery of hindus is well known.

2.Well the population has to be decided on basis of the people who were residents of the state of kashmir before the invasion. Only they and their descendents.

 

[Pakistanian]

Any idea what was the non muslim population of Sindh or East Pakistan in 1947?

both were muslim majority and none had a Hindu district adjoining India. Also jammu was Muslim majority prior to the Jammu massacre at the the time of partition.

Like [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] mentioned, read Christopher Snedden's book on the demographic change in Jammu.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The entire Kashmiri population except for the 5 %ers aka Pandits are against India and want freedom. Not all Bengalis were opposed to Pakistan, there were Razakars supporting Pakistan in large numbers and also a large minority of west Pakistani and indian muslims settled in east Pakistan supporting Pakistan and some of them were massacred by your people. You will never get 100% of a populationa against the occupying force, there are 5th columnists in every conflict zone


Also lol @ yoi trying to portray this as a sectarian conflict, this is an ethnic one and shia Kashmiris are just as anti India as the sunnis. You guys are using divide and rule tactics on Kashmiris something you learned from your British masters.

So people of jammu and ladakh are not kashmiris? Lol. If only valley is to be considered then thats only 18% of the area.

West Pakistanis are not bengalis.

Indian muslims supported Pakistan?

If Shias are anti India, why is Ladakh peaceful?

Heck even the gujjars and bakarwals community has little support for this movement.

Its a secterian movement.

 

[Pakistanian]

So people of jammu and ladakh are not kashmiris? Lol. If only valley is to be considered then thats only 18% of the area.

West Pakistanis are not bengalis.

Indian muslims supported Pakistan?

If Shias are anti India, why is Ladakh peaceful?

Heck even the gujjars and bakarwals community has little support for this movement.

Its a secterian movement.

I'll get back to you.

 

[enkidu_]

The displace Pandits number around 300k in 1990. Likely will have increased their population in 30 years and will be close to 500k or nearly 5% of population.

1.Entire kashmir was hindu before invasiob of Muslims. The ways of sikander butshikan and his butchery of hindus is well known.

2.Well the population has to be decided on basis of the people who were residents of the state of kashmir before the invasion. Only they and their descendents.

The most credible numbers put them at just under 200 000 (160-170 000), but let's admit 300 000, that still doesn't weight enough.

1) Why go back to Sikandar Butshikan ? The Kashmir issue starts in the last century, with the Poonch revolt against the Dogra rule. Pandits weren't kicked out en masse in the 1700s or 1800s either. Also, do Indians who go to the Gulf for better economic opportunities also keep in mind "Muslim invasions" or those who seek jobs in the UK are still aware of the English' favorite historical figure and his miracles, Churchill's Bengal famines slaying millions (who's more recent than Sikandar) ?

2) Agree, but then Kashmiri Pandit families who migrated before, like the Nehru's, would have no right to decide either, right ?

And there are few "non pro India" Kashmiri Pandits, Pandit Prem Nath Bazaz ealier or, nowadays, one of the prime targets of the Modi bhakts, Nitasha Kaul.

 

[Pakistanian]

The most credible numbers put them at just under 200 000 (160-170 000), but let's admit 300 000, that still doesn't weight enough.

1) Why go back to Sikandar Butshikan ? The Kashmir issue starts in the last century, with the Poonch revolt against the Dogra rule. Pandits weren't kicked out en masse in the 1700s or 1800s either. Also, do Indians who go to the Gulf for better economic opportunities also keep in mind "Muslim invasions" or those who seek jobs in the UK are still aware of the English' favorite historical figure and his miracles, Churchill's Bengal famines slaying millions (who's more recent than Sikandar) ?

2) Agree, but then Kashmiri Pandit families who migrated before, like the Nehru's, would have no right to decide either, right ?

And there are few "non pro India" Kashmiri Pandits, Pandit Prem Nath Bazaz ealier or, nowadays, one of the prime targets of the Modi bhakts, Nitasha Kaul.

Indians should watch her speak on Kashmir, she's a Hindu

 

[cricketjoshila]

both were muslim majority and none had a Hindu district adjoining India. Also jammu was Muslim majority prior to the Jammu massacre at the the time of partition.

Like [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] mentioned, read Christopher Snedden's book on the demographic change in Jammu.

Any idea about hindu population of Umerkot and Tharparkar districts of sindh in 1947?

Before snedden why not read about Sikander Butshikan?

 

[Pakistanian]

Any idea about hindu population of Umerkot and Tharparkar districts of sindh in 1947?

Before snedden why not read about Sikander Butshikan?

Why don't you read up about Churchill and what he did to Bengalis? Anyways Bengalis became independent , you now have your own country - Bangladesh. Why deny Kashmiris the same right?

 

[Moh@n]

Many Kashmiris have reported this figure and this article also mentions some 700000 indian troops in Kashmir.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-kashmir-is-this-worlds-first-mass-blinding

The author of that article is Mirza Waheed, a Pakistani.

 

[Pakistanian]

The author of that article is Mirza Waheed, a Pakistani.

Lol so you're saying Kashmiris from IoK are now Pakistani?

The author Mirza Waheed is a Kashmiri Shia, so there's go the "sunni-shia" divide .

 

[Itachi]

Whatever.

Should just give Kashmir away and let them squabble among themselves or with Pakistan.

#HadEnough.

You seriously have no idea what giving up kashmir means to the rest of the india especially where there is presence of separatist movement.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why don't you read up about Churchill and what he did to Bengalis? Anyways Bengalis became independent , you now have your own country - Bangladesh. Why deny Kashmiris the same right?

Muslim bengalis have a separate country. Hindu bengalis live in India. Even though 30% of the population in West Bengal is still muslim.

Kashmiri muslims will be happy to take Valley and leave?

 

[akki]

I dnt think even a single inch of india going anywhere.
Just because you are muslim ,you are given bangladesh,pakistan and now one more country you want to have. Your greed will only stop after gazva e hind.
So i dnt think even karma will allow that. Enough is enough. India is secular state where almost 2nd largest muslim population lives among hundreds of other religions . So nothing is going to change.
Rona hi hasna hi..rehna aitge hi pena hi....

 

[Pakistanian]

Muslim bengalis have a separate country. Hindu bengalis live in India. Even though 30% of the population in West Bengal is still muslim.

Kashmiri muslims will be happy to take Valley and leave?

Kashmiri Muslims and Jammu Muslims want to separate from India. Ideally all of.J&K should be free but a district by district division be the next best solution.

 

[Pakistanian]

I dnt think even a single inch of india going anywhere.
Just because you are muslim ,you are given bangladesh,pakistan and now one more country you want to have. Your greed will only stop after gazva e hind.
So i dnt think even karma will allow that. Enough is enough. India is secular state where almost 2nd largest muslim population lives among hundreds of other religions . So nothing is going to change.
Rona hi hasna hi..rehna aitge hi pena hi....

Not every one wants to be part of a multicultural country. Kashmiris want to form a nation state, India is basically a giant Yugoslavia waiting to collapse.

 

[akki]

Not every one wants to be part of a multicultural country. Kashmiris want to form a nation state, India is basically a giant Yugoslavia waiting to collapse.

Multicultural is different from multi religions. I would have supported kashmir cause if it was cultural thing but unfortunately its religious thing.

 

[Pakistanian]

Multicultural is different from multi religions. I would have supported kashmir cause if it was cultural thing but unfortunately its religious thing.

It's both cultural and religious, it's multi dimensional. Kashmiri Muslims are the only ones proud of their culture have preserved it. Hindu Kashmiris have adopted Indian culture and have married out in large numbers, clearly they prefer their hindu caste over their ethnicity.

 

[akki]

It's both cultural and religious, it's multi dimensional. Kashmiri Muslims are the only ones proud of their culture have preserved it. Hindu Kashmiris have adopted Indian culture and have married out in large numbers, clearly they prefer their hindu caste over their ethnicity.

Its only religious nothing else. Kashmiri pandits wud have preserved their culture if they were allowed to live there. We know what happened to them .

 

[Itachi]

It's both cultural and religious, it's multi dimensional. Kashmiri Muslims are the only ones proud of their culture have preserved it. Hindu Kashmiris have adopted Indian culture and have married out in large numbers, clearly they prefer their hindu caste over their ethnicity.

This is how the talk went..... You wanted to write about culture..... But then you mentioned only religion.

Problem with debating a conservative Muslim is that, they tend to take religion and culture hand in hand with no difference.

For the rest of us, religion isn't related in every aspect of our life unlike Islam. It doesn't play active part in culture.

Hindu kashmiris following Hinduism means they are disowning their culture and ethnicity?

That's a nonsensical on a highest level.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kashmiri Muslims and Jammu Muslims want to separate from India. Ideally all of.J&K should be free but a district by district division be the next best solution.

Jammu is 65% hindu. No question of it separating.

At the best the valley can separate.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's both cultural and religious, it's multi dimensional. Kashmiri Muslims are the only ones proud of their culture have preserved it. Hindu Kashmiris have adopted Indian culture and have married out in large numbers, clearly they prefer their hindu caste over their ethnicity.

The culture of Hindu Kashmiris is also part of Indian culture. They are free to marry anyone. Who decides who is Kashmiri? Muslim Kashmiris?

Didnt you claim sometime back that Hindu kashmiris were not Kashmiris but settled there when they came for pilgrimage?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not every one wants to be part of a multicultural country. Kashmiris want to form a nation state, India is basically a giant Yugoslavia waiting to collapse.

Pakistan has been waiting for this collapse of India since 1947. In the meanwhile Pakistan collapsed.

There are various Indian posters here of various religion region and ethnicity.

They have divergent views on religion politics culture etc.

But almost everyone agrees on one thing that they are Indian.And proud to be so.
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
[MENTION=135839]Smbhayi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION]
[MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]
[MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146727]Rahul1[/MENTION]
[MENTION=136571]akki[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION]
[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION]

 

[Mr.Q]

Pakistan has been waiting for this collapse of India since 1947. In the meanwhile Pakistan collapsed.

There are various Indian posters here of various religion region and ethnicity.

They have divergent views on religion politics culture etc.

But almost everyone agrees on one thing that they are Indian.And proud to be so.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
[MENTION=135839]Smbhayi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION]
[MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]
[MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146727]Rahul1[/MENTION]
[MENTION=136571]akki[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION]
[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION]

Yep. For a country or a society to progress, patriotism is very important. A society entangled in the intricacies of religion will never progress. Most of these guys who argue with us left their country a) because of the sad state of affairs b) because of their cowardice and are today fighting for that angrezi identity. They migrated to a modern, progressive, multicultural society and are enjoying the benefits of it. Then they come here and tell us why the conservative society they left behind is better than a progressive, multicultural society and how a society like India will collapse

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

a) because of the sad state of affairs

That's the reason lots of people from the subcontinent wish to leave their respective countries. It isn't just exclusive to Pakistan or any other country. Lots of issues that plague Pakistan can be found in India as well.

 

[Mr.Q]

That's the reason lots of people from the subcontinent wish to leave their respective countries. It isn't just exclusive to Pakistan or any other country. Lots of issues that plague Pakistan can be found in India as well.

That’s true. Unemployment is an issue in many parts of India as well. I wasn’t making fun of people who migrate to other countries to earn a living. I was only talking about the double standard.

 

[Napa]

Pakistan has been waiting for this collapse of India since 1947. In the meanwhile Pakistan collapsed.

There are various Indian posters here of various religion region and ethnicity.

They have divergent views on religion politics culture etc.

But almost everyone agrees on one thing that they are Indian.And proud to be so.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]
[MENTION=135839]Smbhayi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION]
[MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]
[MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146727]Rahul1[/MENTION]
[MENTION=136571]akki[/MENTION]
[MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION]
[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION]

Sure, I am proud to be an Indian. The communities of India are getting quite integrated. Men and women who meet in colleges intermarry, and often outside their communities. This is now also common in the poorer sections. Our maid who was from Bengal had an arranged marriage with a truck-driver from Haryana.

 

[Napa]

Not every one wants to be part of a multicultural country. Kashmiris want to form a nation state, India is basically a giant Yugoslavia waiting to collapse.

You will keep hoping and waiting, and be forever disappointed )

If anything, as the decades go by, India binds together tighter. The days of the Telangana rebellion, the Northeast rebellion, the Khalistani movement are long gone.

The reason Yugoslavia collapsed is that it was a dictatorship and when the dictatorship collapsed all the secessionist impulses were released at the same time. India being a democracy was able to offer the secessionists enough concessions for them to remain in India.

 

[hafeezrocks]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

The unity factor is being Indian. A concept of nation that eludes people like you.

You can keep dreaming though.

 

[Napa]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

As an Indian, I can tell you that I know more than you about whether Indians have any "unity factor" or not.

In school and in college in India, my group of friends numbered about fifty and came from all parts of the country. They would just laugh at you if you told them "India will collapse, it's just a matter of time".

You should find better use for your time rather than day dreaming about something that will not happen.

 

[TM Riddle]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

We all hate Pakistan with the same fervour so there's that.

 

[Varun]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

If India were to collapse, dozens of other countries would have to collapse first to result in a level of chaos that is needed to precipitate such a collapse. In which case, the world would be falling apart and India alone doesn't really matter when you think about it...

 

[Mamoon]

India will collapse, it's just a matter of time. It is an artificial federation of various ethnicities with no unity factor , like merging all the European Countries into one.

India is the fastest growing economy in the world, and has also surpassed France as the sixth largest in the world.

Like all countries in the world it has problems, but it is also developing and progressing rapidly, and is far, far, far ahead of Pakistan in terms of socio-economic development.

This obsession with India will be the end of Pakistan. Please listen to me when I say this - I am not anti-Pakistan; I love Pakistan as much as any Pakistani, and that is why I don’t want this country to be ruined. I don’t want this country to be destroyed.

However, that is what our fate will be if we don’t wake up and don’t revisit our priorities and objectives.

We cannot compete with India, we cannot be India, but we can do so much with the potential and the resources that we have.

We need to stop interfering with India’s internal problems. Jammu & Kashmir was, is and will always be India’s problem.

Please stop ruining yourselves by fighting someone else’s war. Please realize that Pakistan needs cordial relations with India far more than India needs friendship with Pakistan.

However, if our shallow ego does not allow us to broker peace with India, pretend that they don’t even exist. If we do that, we will still make great progress.

If we continue like this, we will be finished. In hundred years, India will be a first world country while Pakistan will find itself in the history books.

Call me a traitor if you want, but please reform your foreign policy, please stop destroying yourselves. In the next 71 years, we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we have made in the last 71 years.

 

[akki]

India is the fastest growing economy in the world, and has also surpassed France as the sixth largest in the world.

Like all countries in the world it has problems, but it is also developing and progressing rapidly, and is far, far, far ahead of Pakistan in terms of socio-economic development.

This obsession with India will be the end of Pakistan. Please listen to me when I say this - I am not anti-Pakistan; I love Pakistan as much as any Pakistani, and that is why I don’t want this country to be ruined. I don’t want this country to be destroyed.

However, that is what our fate will be if we don’t wake up and don’t revisit our priorities and objectives.

We cannot compete with India, we cannot be India, but we can do so much with the potential and the resources that we have.

We need to stop interfering with India’s internal problems. Jammu & Kashmir was, is and will always be India’s problem.

Please stop ruining yourselves by fighting someone else’s war. Please realize that Pakistan needs cordial relations with India far more than India needs friendship with Pakistan.

However, if our shallow ego does not allow us to broker peace with India, pretend that they don’t even exist. If we do that, we will still make great progress.

If we continue like this, we will be finished. In hundred years, India will be a first world country while Pakistan will find itself in the history books.

Call me a traitor if you want, but please reform your foreign policy, please stop destroying yourselves. In the next 71 years, we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we have made in the last 71 years.

What you pakistanis dnt realize is that you guys are tge reason that india is united.
You guys keep thanking Mr jinnah,but its us indians who should thank him even more,if you include all tge muslim population of india ,pakistan and bangladesh then i am sure muslims would have ruled india and india wud not have been secular nation.
Second thing tge present day situation or the situation of pakistan since decades is what keeps india united. Whenever any movement religious or cultural movement started to liberate it self from india then the situation of pakistan is given as reference that this is what their future would more likely be.
So the only thing pakistan cud have done to their enemy state is that stop interfaring in india internal matters and have friendly relations with india and have become economical and asian model in all parameters and do nothing else and watch how many states in india would probably have then followed pakistan way .By only this way disintegration of india wud have been possible.but now as time goes by ,feeling of nationalism and otger things is growing in india and its only making all indians together and united.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India is the fastest growing economy in the world, and has also surpassed France as the sixth largest in the world.

Like all countries in the world it has problems, but it is also developing and progressing rapidly, and is far, far, far ahead of Pakistan in terms of socio-economic development.

This obsession with India will be the end of Pakistan. Please listen to me when I say this - I am not anti-Pakistan; I love Pakistan as much as any Pakistani, and that is why I don’t want this country to be ruined. I don’t want this country to be destroyed.

However, that is what our fate will be if we don’t wake up and don’t revisit our priorities and objectives.

We cannot compete with India, we cannot be India, but we can do so much with the potential and the resources that we have.

We need to stop interfering with India’s internal problems. Jammu & Kashmir was, is and will always be India’s problem.

Please stop ruining yourselves by fighting someone else’s war. Please realize that Pakistan needs cordial relations with India far more than India needs friendship with Pakistan.

However, if our shallow ego does not allow us to broker peace with India, pretend that they don’t even exist. If we do that, we will still make great progress.

If we continue like this, we will be finished. In hundred years, India will be a first world country while Pakistan will find itself in the history books.

Call me a traitor if you want, but please reform your foreign policy, please stop destroying yourselves. In the next 71 years, we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we have made in the last 71 years.

The only thing i want to ask Pakistanis is why do you want to fight Kashmiri's war with India?

Do you really think you can take Kashmir by force?

Will this support to terror groups force India to cede kashmir?

The way Indian economy is growing we can fight this war for a far longer period than Pakistan can.

 

[Loralai]

India is the fastest growing economy in the world, and has also surpassed France as the sixth largest in the world.

Like all countries in the world it has problems, but it is also developing and progressing rapidly, and is far, far, far ahead of Pakistan in terms of socio-economic development.

This obsession with India will be the end of Pakistan. Please listen to me when I say this - I am not anti-Pakistan; I love Pakistan as much as any Pakistani, and that is why I don’t want this country to be ruined. I don’t want this country to be destroyed.

However, that is what our fate will be if we don’t wake up and don’t revisit our priorities and objectives.

We cannot compete with India, we cannot be India, but we can do so much with the potential and the resources that we have.

We need to stop interfering with India’s internal problems. Jammu & Kashmir was, is and will always be India’s problem.

Please stop ruining yourselves by fighting someone else’s war. Please realize that Pakistan needs cordial relations with India far more than India needs friendship with Pakistan.

However, if our shallow ego does not allow us to broker peace with India, pretend that they don’t even exist. If we do that, we will still make great progress.

If we continue like this, we will be finished. In hundred years, India will be a first world country while Pakistan will find itself in the history books.

Call me a traitor if you want, but please reform your foreign policy, please stop destroying yourselves. In the next 71 years, we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we have made in the last 71 years.

This is all very true [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] but you know our people will struggle to accept it.