Do you believe in reincarnation?

[DeadBall]

Have a couple of pigeons nesting right above my chair on the balcony. Wanted to get rid of it as really startles me sometimes but the Mrs (She's Romanian btw) said they could be reincarnations of our parents coming to look over us.

Anyone else believe in reincarnation? Btw I do understand that we are made from stardust and most things are recycled to get the cycle of life going.

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[Robert]

No.

Perhaps memory engrams can be passed down in DNA, so people think they had a previous life.

Or not.

 

[DeadBall]

No.

Perhaps memory engrams can be passed down in DNA, so people think they had a previous life.

Or not.

True. We may not have the same memories/conscience we have had during our lifetime but it is a never ending cycle of recycling.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No it makes no sense to me at all.

You start as humans or do you start as ants etc? Humans are the top of the food chain, after dying your soul is then put into a pigeon? What for?
[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] Please if they are annoying you, get the shotgun out and get yourself some peace man

 

[DeadBall]

No it makes no sense to me at all.

You start as humans or do you start as ants etc? Humans are the top of the food chain, after dying your soul is then put into a pigeon? What for?
[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] Please if they are annoying you, get the shotgun out and get yourself some peace man

Will get more annoyance and lack of peace from the Mrs if I did that. Also according to German law (which the lawyer Mrs reminded me) we are not allowed to disturb the natural habitat of animals. Our neighbor had more than half a mind (exaggerating there) to shoot the Owls in the tree next to us as they kept him up all night.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Will get more annoyance and lack of peace from the Mrs if I did that. Also according to German law (which the lawyer Mrs reminded me) we are not allowed to disturb the natural habitat of animals. Our neighbor had more than half a mind (exaggerating there) to shoot the Owls in the tree next to us as they kept him up all night.

Only joking bro. We shouldn't harm any living creature.

It's an interesting subject though, why does you Mrs believe in reincarnation? What is her reasoning? Or if anyone else on here who believes can explain? I've never understood the concept.

 

[DeadBall]

Only joking bro. We shouldn't harm any living creature.

It's an interesting subject though, why does you Mrs believe in reincarnation? What is her reasoning? Or if anyone else on here who believes can explain? I've never understood the concept.

I was joking too. Reincarnation is very believable as it is a human condition to have a chance to once again reconnect with one's loved ones and immortality. Don't know about you but wouldn't you want your (deceased) parents looking over you once again in one way or another?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Only joking bro. We shouldn't harm any living creature.

It's an interesting subject though, why does you Mrs believe in reincarnation? What is her reasoning? Or if anyone else on here who believes can explain? I've never understood the concept.

It's probably a religious concept, or at least would have been in it's original form, the idea being that you live the best life you can so you are reincarnated as something better rather than worse. I'm sure I read that somewhere. It's the Hindu alternative to Abrahamic idea of heaven or hell probably, both are motivators to live a good life.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I was joking too. Reincarnation is very believable as it is a human condition to have a chance to once again reconnect with one's loved ones and immortality. Don't know about you but wouldn't you want your (deceased) parents looking over you once again in one way or another?

Not really. I would rather prefer the idea in Islam where they will be in a place looking at heaven(if they were good) and be totally at peace and filled with joy. The idea of them coming back as pigeons etc would be creepy esp if I then see the pigeon hurt. As once I saw a pigeon fly straight into a large glass shopping centre entrance door. Also I would be paranoid thinking they could be an animal such as a chicken or lamb which I would bbq.

It's probably a religious concept, or at least would have been in it's original form, the idea being that you live the best life you can so you are reincarnated as something better rather than worse. I'm sure I read that somewhere. It's the Hindu alternative to Abrahamic idea of heaven or hell probably, both are motivators to live a good life.

I've read something similar. So what's above human? It would be fair to assume millions of more creatures are born than those humans who die? How does the maths makes sense here?

 

[DeadBall]

Not really. I would rather prefer the idea in Islam where they will be in a place looking at heaven(if they were good) and be totally at peace and filled with joy. The idea of them coming back as pigeons etc would be creepy esp if I then see the pigeon hurt. As once I saw a pigeon fly straight into a large glass shopping centre entrance door. Also I would be paranoid thinking they could be an animal such as a chicken or lamb which I would bbq.

That's just your understanding of it. Also in Islam they are not in heaven as of yet being in total peace and harmony and all that goodness, that will happen after the day of judgement.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That's just your understanding of it. Also in Islam they are not in heaven as of yet being in total peace and harmony and all that goodness, that will happen after the day of judgement.

I wrote they will be in a 'place' looking at heaven, it's called al-barzakh. Surely one would want to 'believe' their parents or loved ones are in a happy place and not wondering around as some insect, bird or reptile?

 

[DeadBall]

I wrote they will be in a 'place' looking at heaven, it's called al-barzakh. Surely one would want to 'believe' their parents or loved ones are in a happy place and not wondering around as some insect, bird or reptile?

Maybe some people are happier "believing" their parents or loved ones are looking over them in the form of an insect, bird or an animal. We all have crazy beliefs.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Maybe some people are happier "believing" their parents or loved ones are looking over them in the form of an insect, bird or an animal. We all have crazy beliefs.

Yep, everyone is different.

If there was reincarnation and I could choose, I would like to be bird, possibly an Eagle. The view would be amazing.

 

[enkidu_]

No one ever believed in 'reincarnation' as many today understand it. It's a modern myth created by a bunch of late 19th century Europeans with a flawed knowledge of Hinduism/Buddhism, called the Theosophy movement (Blavatsky, etc), who didn't get the notion of 'Self/ego' in the Eastern metaphysics.

As Coomaraswamy summarizes in his studies of Hinduism/Buddhism, it's the Self which gets reincarnated, not the ego, otherwise it's individualism ; I think it's in the Bhavagad-Gita that you read that Krishna takes many 'clothes' in many 'lives' - but you have to keep in mind that 'Krishna' is not an 'individual', but the Self, 'the higher principle', not one particular individuality with its individual qualities.

It's a complex issue but basically 'reincarnation' is wrong.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No one ever believed in 'reincarnation' as many today understand it. It's a modern myth created by a bunch of late 19th century Europeans with a flawed knowledge of Hinduism/Buddhism, called the Theosophy movement (Blavatsky, etc), who didn't get the notion of 'Self/ego' in the Eastern metaphysics.

As Coomaraswamy summarizes in his studies of Hinduism/Buddhism, it's the Self which gets reincarnated, not the ego, otherwise it's individualism ; I think it's in the Bhavagad-Gita that you read that Krishna takes many 'clothes' in many 'lives' - but you have to keep in mind that 'Krishna' is not an 'individual', but the Self, 'the higher principle', not one particular individuality with its individual qualities.

It's a complex issue but basically 'reincarnation' is wrong.

So it's about 'improving' one self not dying and being born into a pigeon etc? At what stage do this 'self' become 'reincarnated'? Does the person have to do some good or is it just a random process?

 

[enkidu_]

So it's about 'improving' one self not dying and being born into a pigeon etc? At what stage do this 'self' become 'reincarnated'? Does the person have to do some good or is it just a random process?

Yes basically. It's about cleansing your karmic attachments ; in Islamic parlance it'd be about purifying your nafs to go into paradise/escaping hellfire ("cycles of reincarnation"). Muslims got the qualities of this concept without the burden in some way, because the wahy (revelation ; shruti in Sanskrit) hasn't been preserved as in Islam, so the pure monotheism (tawhid) has been corrupted, including the rituals and all, in Hinduism/Buddhism.

 

[DeadBall]

So it's about 'improving' one self not dying and being born into a pigeon etc? At what stage do this 'self' become 'reincarnated'? Does the person have to do some good or is it just a random process?

Same amount of "good" I believe to stay in limbo in the Barzakh I suppose. As I mentioned everyone has their beliefs as far fetched as them might be but they are "beliefs"as well. What matters is just what one were brought up to "believe", I have seen many intelligent people trying to prove something the believed as right (however wrong their beliefs were) just to confirm their own bias and conditioning. That's human (and animal) nature though.

 

[PakLFC]

No never. It does not appeal to my intelligence or conscience. I have no problem with those who do believe in it.

 

[BaankeJi]

Well, there have been instances when people have recounted incidents of their previous births and those have been verified. Reincarnation is real. Doesn't have scientific basis because science cannot explain it. But it exists.

 

[PetroDollars]

All religions get corrupted over time and thats were this theory comes from, essentially an occult idea.

 

[TM Riddle]

Nice to see pakke paanch waqt ke namazi Musalaman rejecting theory of reincarnation because it doesn't appeal to their intelligence or because it doesn't make sense to them.

Irony just died a very painful death.

 

[Mueez]

As far as I know, Hindu's and Buddhists believe that their soul gets reincarnated, it isn't like the person itself returns to the Earth.

Correct me please, if I'm wrong

 

[Belawal2014]

Wishful thinking..

 

[Pakistanian]

From a scientific perspective, our bodies decompose and become a part of nature, our body is utilized by the soil to create plants and grass and then insects and animals feed on them carrying a microscopic part of us in them. So yeah we do get reincarnated.

 

[DeadBall]

From a scientific perspective, our bodies decompose and become a part of nature, our body is utilized by the soil to create plants and grass and then insects and animals feed on them carrying a microscopic part of us in them. So yeah we do get reincarnated.

Yes that was something I touched on before too. Everything gets recycled in nature. But is it really the same as a person with memories being reborn in another shape or form?

 

[Yossarian]

Only joking bro. We shouldn't harm any living creature.

Unless it's for food.

Grilled pigeon anyone?

 

[Yossarian]

True. We may not have the same memories/conscience we have had during our lifetime but it is a never ending cycle of recycling.

A Sikh colleague once explained that depending upon how 'good' or 'bad' you've been in this life will determine how you come back in the next life after reincarnation.
ie You will get 'promoted' or 'demoted' down or up the chain (or come back at a similar level as before). 'Down' could mean reincarnated as an animal, or even all the way down to an insect.

 

[James]

I can see why many people believe in reincarnation, but personally I do not. In my opinion, each being lives and dies as what it is.

Something I do believe in however is that humans can have a deep emotional connection and understanding with species aside from themselves - and with dogs in particular.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

One of my most favorite characters from Babylon 5 - Ambassador G'kar had to say something on this

"If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is God, but the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search – who does not bring a lantern – sees nothing. What we perceive as God is the by-product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light… pure and unblemished… not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe – God looks astonishingly like we do – or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and in all its flaws; and in so doing, better understand the world around us."

 

[DeadBall]

A Sikh colleague once explained that depending upon how 'good' or 'bad' you've been in this life will determine how you come back in the next life after reincarnation.
ie You will get 'promoted' or 'demoted' down or up the chain (or come back at a similar level as before). 'Down' could mean reincarnated as an animal, or even all the way down to an insect.

Yes, have heard that too. But seems to be going in the opposite direction of late

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View attachment 82426

 

[Pakistanian]

Yes that was something I touched on before too. Everything gets recycled in nature. But is it really the same as a person with memories being reborn in another shape or form?

Unlikely as our memories and "self" is in our brain which stops functioning when we die and decomposes.

 

[Pakistanian]

A Sikh colleague once explained that depending upon how 'good' or 'bad' you've been in this life will determine how you come back in the next life after reincarnation.
ie You will get 'promoted' or 'demoted' down or up the chain (or come back at a similar level as before). 'Down' could mean reincarnated as an animal, or even all the way down to an insect.

Hindus have a caste system, the belief is that bad people are born as lower castes and dalits while the best are reborn as Brahmins.

 

[akki]

Hindus have a caste system, the belief is that bad people are born as lower castes and dalits while the best are reborn as Brahmins.

Best are reborn as brahmins and worst as dalits loll. Who told you that ???? Hahaha
Caste system was based on occupation and not on birth. You need to visit caste related thread which recently has been opened by your friend and discuss there these things.

 

[akki]

As far as I know, Hindu's and Buddhists believe that their soul gets reincarnated, it isn't like the person itself returns to the Earth.

Correct me please, if I'm wrong

All indian dharmic religion like hinduism ,budhism,sikhism have almost same beliefs. Not much to differentiate. People just confuse sanatan dharma with caste system. Nothing else.
Soul gets reincarnated but its not that simple. It also has some conditions. Not every soul is meant to reincarmate.

 

[karthikc]

The oldest preachers of Hinduism say that reincarnation is only possible when cremation is done. Burial will not allow the soul to ascend to the astral layer.

This is not my thought, this is what I read somewhere

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A Sikh colleague once explained that depending upon how 'good' or 'bad' you've been in this life will determine how you come back in the next life after reincarnation.
ie You will get 'promoted' or 'demoted' down or up the chain (or come back at a similar level as before). 'Down' could mean reincarnated as an animal, or even all the way down to an insect.

That was the form of belief I was told as well, although with Indians they do tend to reinvent everything so it is more palatable to current times so no doubt just like the caste system, you will have plenty telling us it was different all along.

 

[Mueez]

All indian dharmic religion like hinduism ,budhism,sikhism have almost same beliefs. Not much to differentiate. People just confuse sanatan dharma with caste system. Nothing else.
Soul gets reincarnated but its not that simple. It also has some conditions. Not every soul is meant to reincarmate.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[srh]

Have a couple of pigeons nesting right above my chair on the balcony. Wanted to get rid of it as really startles me sometimes but the Mrs (She's Romanian btw) said they could be reincarnations of our parents coming to look over us.

Anyone else believe in reincarnation? Btw I do understand that we are made from stardust and most things are recycled to get the cycle of life going.

View attachment 82414

how can a muslim believe in reincarnation?

 

[ManFan]

how can a muslim believe in reincarnation?

OP is not Muslim. (99% sure)

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

how can a muslim believe in reincarnation?

Muslims do believe in reincarnation. That too on the day of judgement.

 

[ManFan]

Muslims do believe in reincarnation. That too on the day of judgement.

That’s resurrection.

 

[CricketCartoons]

After studying major religions, the cycle of reincarnation is the only logical explanation to what happens to souls.

 

[Mamoon]

A Sikh colleague once explained that depending upon how 'good' or 'bad' you've been in this life will determine how you come back in the next life after reincarnation.
ie You will get 'promoted' or 'demoted' down or up the chain (or come back at a similar level as before). 'Down' could mean reincarnated as an animal, or even all the way down to an insect.

That has been my understanding as well, and I wonder how does one get promoted to a human-being after being demoted to an animal?

How does one do good or bad as an animal?

Moreover, this cycle has to start somewhere. I have heard there are 7 lives for each soul, and I wonder if they all start equally, i.e. everyone is a human in life number one. Then again, it does not guarantee that they will be of the same social standing.

It is not fair if Soul A is a prince in his first life while Soul B is a beggar.

 

[srh]

OP is not Muslim. (99% sure)

sad if true; hope he comes back to Islam before death

 

[DeadBall]

Btw just remembered this very funny take on reincarnation by Bill Bailey.

 

[DeadBall]

sad if true; hope he comes back to Islam before death

I won't. I didn't leave it on a whim, abrubtly or due to some rebellion but after studying religion in depth with many scholars and realizing it was mostly fairy tales with many contradictions and things that just did not just make sense. It has been a very long and hard journey and you thinking that I am just some simpleton who has just been misguided or "led astray" is quite insulting to be honest, even though your thoughts could be emanating from a good place.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That was the form of belief I was told as well, although with Indians they do tend to reinvent everything so it is more palatable to current times so no doubt just like the caste system, you will have plenty telling us it was different all along.

Reinventing religion is not unique to Indians Cap. Nor is the belief in reincarnation for that matter. Some forms of judaism also have/had that belief and even in india there is quite a degree of variance in this belief among the Hindus/Jains/Buddhists.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That has been my understanding as well, and I wonder how does one get promoted to a human-being after being demoted to an animal?

How does one do good or bad as an animal?

Moreover, this cycle has to start somewhere. I have heard there are 7 lives for each soul, and I wonder if they all start equally, i.e. everyone is a human in life number one. Then again, it does not guarantee that they will be of the same social standing.

It is not fair if Soul A is a prince in his first life while Soul B is a beggar.

You have to be born as an animal to know how you can do good or bad. And the Almighty knows the best.

If you don't believe, you can search for animals responding to prayer calls.

Next you will say why someone is born in summer while some are born in winter, as it is unfair. You have to know that Lord Almighty wants the best for us and if He closes one door, He opens 7 others. Your heart is sealed with ignorance if you think Supreme Lord is unfair to His creations.

 

[LastManstanding]

That has been my understanding as well, and I wonder how does one get promoted to a human-being after being demoted to an animal?

How does one do good or bad as an animal?

Moreover, this cycle has to start somewhere. I have heard there are 7 lives for each soul, and I wonder if they all start equally, i.e. everyone is a human in life number one. Then again, it does not guarantee that they will be of the same social standing.

It is not fair if Soul A is a prince in his first life while Soul B is a beggar.

In Hinduism, the number is 84 lakh and it's called yoni.

 

[akki]

In Hinduism, the number is 84 lakh and it's called yoni.

Yeah but not every soul is meant to go through 84 lakh circle. It depends ,you may get born as a human again based on your deeds. But the ultimiate goal is to break through this born and death circle and get moksha...

 

[troodon]

If God is there, then anything is possible.

Reincarnation, Ghosts, Jinns, Talking snakes, flying horses.... are nothing. God is all powerful and can make anything happen.

 

[Sirris]

I was joking too. Reincarnation is very believable as it is a human condition to have a chance to once again reconnect with one's loved ones and immortality. Don't know about you but wouldn't you want your (deceased) parents looking over you once again in one way or another?

If the pigeons won't let you hug them, are they really your parent? And are the baby pigeons your siblings?

 

[DeadBall]

If the pigeons won't let you hug them, are they really your parent? And are the baby pigeons your siblings?

And pay for pigeon college too? No way man.

Anyway, I personally think they are flying rats and wouldn't touch them with a 2 feet stick. But it does give comfort to many people to think it is one of their beloved who are watching over them. I actually am starting to see my father in the male pigeon every time we eye each other whenever I go to the balcony to smoke.

 

[Sirris]

And pay for pigeon college too? No way man.

Anyway, I personally think they are flying rats and wouldn't touch them with a 2 feet stick. But it does give comfort to many people to think it is one of their beloved who are watching over them. I actually am starting to see my father in the male pigeon every time we eye each other whenever I go to the balcony to smoke.

If reincarnation is real and the pigeons are your parents reborn and watching over you then this implies that they have memories of their past life. How come we as humans don't have any memories of our past life. What is the point behind endless rebirth when you can't even remember a bit of it to learn from your mistakes.

When a burglar breaks into your house while you are away, I highly doubt these watchful pigeons are going to be of any help.

 

[Sirris]

After studying major religions, the cycle of reincarnation is the only logical explanation to what happens to souls.

The only logical conclusion is that the concept of soul as preached by religion is a lie.

Or else do care to explain the man with 7 second memory, Clive Wearing. He has been living for decades in an endless loop. How come the consciousness and well-being of his "soul" is directly linked with which parts of brain has been destroyed. And how will his soul ever be able to do good deeds when he is living in a constant state of confusion.

How come during anesthesia when we shut down the brain we automatically also shut down the soul.

 

[DeadBall]

If reincarnation is real and the pigeons are your parents reborn and watching over you then this implies that they have memories of their past life. How come we as humans don't have any memories of our past life. What is the point behind endless rebirth when you can't even remember a bit of it to learn from your mistakes.

When a burglar breaks into your house while you are away, I highly doubt these watchful pigeons are going to be of any help.

As I mentioned in the OP these are my wife's beliefs and not mine. The pigeons or any other animal are there as a source of comfort and not as some watch dogs.

However am really interested in the many instances of deja vu I have had or the many dreams/episodes involving my subconscious, wouldn't have believed it for a second if I hadn't experienced them myself, hopefully scientists can shed a light on this soon.

As for learning from our mistakes, it is not very much in our emotional impulsive human nature. Not on a mass scale anyway. If that were the case we could easily learn from what has been documented in history so far but we keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How come during anesthesia when we shut down the brain we automatically also shut down the soul.

Please give some evidence for this statement. How do you know the soul is not aware that the body is under anesthesia?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nice to see pakke paanch waqt ke namazi Musalaman rejecting theory of reincarnation because it doesn't appeal to their intelligence or because it doesn't make sense to them.

Irony just died a very painful death.

Nothing ironic about it. The Islamic view of life after death is very simple to understand and explained in great detail. Please bro instead of becoming emotional, I assume you believe in reincarnation so please explain it?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Nothing ironic about it. The Islamic view of life after death is very simple to understand and explained in great detail. Please bro instead of becoming emotional, I assume you believe in reincarnation so please explain it?

The ultimate purpose of the soul is to merge with Lord Almighty, the Supreme Soul. This is the only logical purpose which makes sense. The Islamic view of having jannah and jahannam doesn't make sense especially when you have rivers of milk and honey, wine and women. How can these be incentives when the ultimate pleasure for the soul is to be One with the Almighty.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The ultimate purpose of the soul is to merge with Lord Almighty, the Supreme Soul. This is the only logical purpose which makes sense. The Islamic view of having jannah and jahannam doesn't make sense especially when you have rivers of milk and honey, wine and women. How can these be incentives when the ultimate pleasure for the soul is to be One with the Almighty.

How can you merge with the Creator who is nothing like you?

The main reward is to meet your Creator, the rivers of milk etc are just bonuses.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How can you merge with the Creator who is nothing like you?

The main reward is to meet your Creator, the rivers of milk etc are just bonuses.

I spend my life abstaining from alcohol and women and I get rewarded with more wine and women in jannah? How very logical. Even as a bonus. It is insulting as an incentive. Makes no sense at all.

Every soul comes from the divine Supreme Soul. Merging of the soul with the creator is like a drop merging in the ocean.

Karma is the only theory which makes sense. You don't have to believe in God, only your deeds matter.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I spend my life abstaining from alcohol and women and I get rewarded with more wine and women in jannah? How very logical. Even as a bonus. It is insulting as an incentive. Makes no sense at all.

Every soul comes from the divine Supreme Soul. Merging of the soul with the creator is like a drop merging in the ocean.

Karma is the only theory which makes sense. You don't have to believe in God, only your deeds matter.

The wine is alcohol free. You wont need intoxicants there to 'feel good' and if you dont like women, you will get your hearts desire. Anyway this is for another topic.

Ok then why put the soul into a pigeon or an ant and then into some other creature?

What is karma?

 

[CricketCartoons]

The wine is alcohol free. You wont need intoxicants there to 'feel good' and if you dont like women, you will get your hearts desire. Anyway this is for another topic.

Ok then why put the soul into a pigeon or an ant and then into some other creature?

What is karma?

If I don't like what is being offered in jannah is immaterial. The point is why is something which I consider bad is even being offered to me as a reward in the after life? Makes zero sense. I am surprised you are willing to overlook this very obvious illogical aspect while questioning why a living being has a soul, as a body is living only because it has a soul. Otherwise it is a dead body.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If I don't like what is being offered in jannah is immaterial. The point is why is something which I consider bad is even being offered to me as a reward in the after life? Makes zero sense. I am surprised you are willing to overlook this very obvious illogical aspect while questioning why a living being has a soul, as a body is living only because it has a soul. Otherwise it is a dead body.

Please read more carefully. You will get what your heart desires. Since God is aware of what this is , you wont be offered or given what you dont desire. This is as logical as it can get.

Now if you're struggling with answering my questions, please just say and I will wait for a more learned poster on the subject?

If merging with God is the way, then why merge the soul into perhaps an Elephant seal?

What is Karma?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Please read more carefully. You will get what your heart desires. Since God is aware of what this is , you wont be offered or given what you dont desire. This is as logical as it can get.

Now if you're struggling with answering my questions, please just say and I will wait for a more learned poster on the subject?

If merging with God is the way, then why merge the soul into perhaps an Elephant seal?

What is Karma?

Sorry, you are struggling to get the point. I may refuse wine and women, but why is it even on the buffet menu? How can material and carnal desires be in the menu of rewards in jannah. If you are struggling to answer this, I will wait for a learned person to explain it. Wait, no true learned person can justify it.

The soul is not merged into an elephant seal. Merging of the soul with God is the ultimate reward for the soul, for which it has to go through many cycles and has to accumulate good deeds so that it can break free from the cycle of birth and death and be One with the Supreme.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sorry, you are struggling to get the point. I may refuse wine and women, but why is it even on the buffet menu? How can material and carnal desires be in the menu of rewards in jannah. If you are struggling to answer this, I will wait for a learned person to explain it. Wait, no true learned person can justify it.

The soul is not merged into an elephant seal. Merging of the soul with God is the ultimate reward for the soul, for which it has to go through many cycles and has to accumulate good deeds so that it can break free from the cycle of birth and death and be One with the Supreme.

It's not on the menu for you as you dont desire it. This is simple English to understand.

Are you saying an Elephant seal is actually God? Or do you not believe in reincarnation from a human body into another creature?

 

[CricketCartoons]

It's not on the menu for you as you dont desire it. This is simple English to understand.

Are you saying an Elephant seal is actually God? Or do you not believe in reincarnation from a human body into another creature?

I am saying that Elephant seal has a soul. How can a body move without a soul? This is simple English to understand.

Quote me the verse which says wine and women will be off limits for those who don't desire it. Go on.

 

[akki]

Well recarnation makes the most sense out of all other explanations after death like heaven and hell.
So after death ,we are going to enjoy material things even in heaven ,given by god. All the honey ,women really ??? what will women enjoy there in heaven ? If she desires men then she will get all the men there ?? What is in menu other than that? Its very complex to understand truely. People need to stop emotional and think logically.

Muslim countries are very conservative related to men amd women relations and suddenly they gonna get all the glamour out ther in heaven. Seems very unlikely.

 

[yasir]

In Hinduism, the number is 84 lakh and it's called yoni.

What is the magic behind this number? - What is purpose of this grand loop of recycling 8.4M times. Would you become God or something??

 

[yasir]

You have to be born as an animal to know how you can do good or bad. And the Almighty knows the best.

If you don't believe, you can search for animals responding to prayer calls.

Next you will say why someone is born in summer while some are born in winter, as it is unfair. You have to know that Lord Almighty wants the best for us and if He closes one door, He opens 7 others. Your heart is sealed with ignorance if you think Supreme Lord is unfair to His creations.

If answer to every inquiry to religious philosophy is "God knows Best", then what is the point of exploring the details. Why God leaked this half backed knowledge(God Leaks ) that pretty much every religion struggle to answer? - None of the faithful create anything useful from the 'God Leaks'

Most of the answer we have actually got are using secular tools like reason and most importantly evidence. If we have never went down the path of Physics, we would still struggle to understand the true nature of Sun, and would be frighten by him as we frighten by God(Sun was one of the first God, still Sunday is named after that God). In reality Sun is made of same matter as us. actually we have a little Sun(aka Star) in us, since all heavy elements(apart from Hydrogen or He are baked into Star), were once part of stars that are now part of our body not just Earth...This "God knows Best" does not take you anywhere, even this simple(from today's standard) insightful information is not part of any religion, who claims to be manufacture of not just universe but entire Cosmos

 

[yasir]

One of my most favorite characters from Babylon 5 - Ambassador G'kar had to say something on this

"If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is God, but the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search – who does not bring a lantern – sees nothing. What we perceive as God is the by-product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light… pure and unblemished… not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe – God looks astonishingly like we do – or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and in all its flaws; and in so doing, better understand the world around us."

Nice Analogy!! - That's why Science has much better results, independent evidence is far more important than your vested or emotional interest...We were able to build a lot upon the Enterprise of Science for those basic reasons.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If answer to every inquiry to religious philosophy is "God knows Best", then what is the point of exploring the details. Why God leaked this half backed knowledge(God Leaks ) that pretty much every religion struggle to answer? - None of the faithful create anything useful from the 'God Leaks'

Most of the answer we have actually got are using secular tools like reason and most importantly evidence. If we have never went down the path of Physics, we would still struggle to understand the true nature of Sun, and would be frighten by him as we frighten by God(Sun was one of the first God, still Sunday is named after that God). In reality Sun is made of same matter as us. actually we have a little Sun(aka Star) in us, since all heavy elements(apart from Hydrogen or He are baked into Star), were once part of stars that are now part of our body not just Earth...This "God knows Best" does not take you anywhere, even this simple(from today's standard) insightful information is not part of any religion, who claims to be manufacture of not just universe but entire Cosmos

Sir, I don't waste my time on atheists who are too full of themselves and too arrogant to acknowledge our Creator. However, I will pray that you work towards good Karma and break free of this cycle of birth and death and get all your questions answered. Harey Krishna.

 

[yasir]

Please give some evidence for this statement. How do you know the soul is not aware that the body is under anesthesia?

Do we have any evidence that during Anesthesia, you(or anybody else) know exactly what's going on around you?? - I am talking about every minor detail that we notice normally... Again this Soul thing is another **, whatever ever makes us conscious is in our physical brain and associated nervous system, this Soul concept is ancient ideology not a scientific one. In another century or so, when we will understand the details of brain, we will come to terms with it, like we did with the heart. Heart was suppose to be special organ that has emotional, and lot of spiritual Mamboo Jamboo, but in the end its just an organic pump. Now religious folks are backing out of all reference to Heart in the holy texts as selective metaphors

Why Soul concept is surviving right now is mainly because of "God of Gaps" phenomena, basically when we don't fully understand a thing, we put in Supernatural or Magic bucket, then knowledge becomes a democratic process, matter of numbers(which ever camps has majority in a particular region that becomes standard) than concrete evidence...

 

[LastManstanding]

What is the magic behind this number? - What is purpose of this grand loop of recycling 8.4M times. Would you become God or something??

84 lakhs signifies the number of reincarnations a soul must have to be born again as human. This number isnt fixed and your Karma decides how quickly you will be born again as human. If you do good deeds as human, you will go to heaven and will later be born again as human. If you continue doing good deeds, you will ultimately go to Vaikunth(the highest level of heaven and adobe of Lord Vishnu) and be with him and will be free from the cycle of birth and death.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Do we have any evidence that during Anesthesia, you(or anybody else) know exactly what's going on around you?? - I am talking about every minor detail that we notice normally... Again this Soul thing is another **, whatever ever makes us conscious is in our physical brain and associated nervous system, this Soul concept is ancient ideology not a scientific one. In another century or so, when we will understand the details of brain, we will come to terms with it, like we did with the heart. Heart was suppose to be special organ that has emotional, and lot of spiritual Mamboo Jamboo, but in the end its just an organic pump. Now religious folks are backing out of all reference to Heart in the holy texts as selective metaphors

Why Soul concept is surviving right now is mainly because of "God of Gaps" phenomena, basically when we don't fully understand a thing, we put in Supernatural or Magic bucket, then knowledge becomes a democratic process, matter of numbers(which ever camps has majority in a particular region that becomes standard) than concrete evidence...

Sir, this is not a religion vs atheism thread, so kindly take your sermons in those relevant threads. Tag me there and I will be happy to expose your ignorance, when I get free time of course.

 

[yasir]

84 lakhs signifies the number of reincarnations a soul must have to be born again as human. This number isnt fixed and your Karma decides how quickly you will be born again as human. If you do good deeds as human, you will go to heaven and will later be born again as human. If you continue doing good deeds, you will ultimately go to Vaikunth(the highest level of heaven and adobe of Lord Vishnu) and be with him and will be free from the cycle of birth and death.

Does anybody ever remember that they are reborn other than Bollywood movies? - reincarnation theory should be very easy to test, yet nobody can say with honesty that they are reborn (from human or animal)... If you have no memory of your past life than what is the point of this concept(also it violates the theories put to gather by holy Bollywood)?? - There are 7B humans, if it was true, you don't have to convince people, we would have get it by now...

 

[yasir]

Sir, this is not a religion vs atheism thread, so kindly take your sermons in those relevant threads. Tag me there and I will be happy to expose your ignorance, when I get free time of course.

Well weather it is soul or reincarnation, they both are physical phenomena, science is still main tool to investigate them, that is my main argument, there is nothing magical or spiritual(whatever that means) about them...But now you don't want to get into the details, because of lack of data backing your claims??

 

[LastManstanding]

Does anybody ever remember that they are reborn other than Bollywood movies? - reincarnation theory should be very easy to test, yet nobody can say with honesty that they are reborn (from human or animal)... If you have no memory of your past life than what is the point of this concept(also it violates the theories put to gather by holy Bollywood)?? - There are 7B humans, if it was true, you don't have to convince people, we would have get it by now...

No, they dont. You do your karma and on the basis of it your next yoni is decided.

 

[yasir]

No, they dont. You do your karma and on the basis of it your next yoni is decided.

I don't get it, if one instance of me cannot remember even the last instance(forget about all other instances), why do I care about future, why even mention this process? - My OS, Memory, HD everything will be wiped out(if this all is true)...

Is that the reason you are again throwing Heaven(after all recycling is complete) in the end, to keep incentivizing people?? - So after all Carrot and Stick of Heaven and Hell has to be brought back like Ibharamic religions. This sounds more like typically Bollywood movie, which is copy of Hollywood, with 5 extra unnecessary songs and lot of desi drama to add 2 extra hours

I still don't get this reincarnation business with irreversible wipe after every instance, this does not make any logical sense

 

[CricketCartoons]

I still don't get this reincarnation business with irreversible wipe after every instance, this does not make any logical sense

What do you get? That you and your consciousness was created by random alignment of atoms? That everything was created from matter and non living chemicals reacted to become living chemicals. You godless atheists and evolutionary propagandists are funny.