What's new

Does Jasprit Bumrah have a legal action?

Bewal Express said:
The law is 15 degrees and if it doesn't count,then shouldn't it be part of the law.
Click to expand...

You appear to be particularly obtuse about understanding the language of the law… what is preventing you from understating the phrase ‘hyper extension is not accounted for in the deflection’? You do realize that the maximum deflection is intended to prevent a bowler from releasing the ball with a bent elbow. No bowler releases the ball when their elbow is hyperextended. In fact no bowler releases the delivery at precisely 180 degrees. It’s usually a bit past that. Thus, the threshold.
 
His bowling action is ugly and looks like chucking but he picks wickets for India so it's legal. Good for Team India.
 
I seriously doubt the ICC or the world press would have excused Bumrah's action, had it been really illegal. One really cannot hide such cheating these days.
 
Bewal Express said:
Show the full law on chucking on here from the ICC rule book and I will accept I am wrong.
Click to expand...

An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.

This is the statement from ICC, now you are being deliberately obtuse, he has posted the link thrice. Go read it.
 
IMMY69 said:
You can call it hyper extension for sure if the bowling arm elbow was facing straight down the wicket.
His is not and if you twist your elbow to the right you are able to bend your arm
Click to expand...

Hyper extension is when your elbow joint goes beyond 180 degrees in full extension. It has nothing to do with which side elbow is facing.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We always hear about Jasprit Bumrah's bowling being 'unique' and 'different', but what makes it so?<a href="https://twitter.com/bowlologist?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@bowlologist</a> joins <a href="https://twitter.com/blewy214?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@blewy214</a> to go through all the different factors which make Bumrah one of the best bowlers in the world <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvIND</a> <a href="https://t.co/FYSmDecGSJ">pic.twitter.com/FYSmDecGSJ</a></p>— 7Cricket (@7Cricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/7Cricket/status/1347406709858455553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Now :shh
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.

This is the statement from ICC, now you are being deliberately obtuse, he has posted the link thrice. Go read it.
Click to expand...

I asked for the law. Afterall it's the law we play but not statements
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
An ICC statement said: "The report indicates that during delivery, Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control. On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.

This is the statement from ICC, now you are being deliberately obtuse, he has posted the link thrice. Go read it.
Click to expand...

As this is saying that its uncontrollable, Are you saying that the amount hyperextension is always the same irrespective of how quick he bowls?
 
On the naked eye, for a person who doesn't watch cricket, if he were to compare Bumrah with Siraj as that video did, they'd claim that Bumrah was doing something different and possibly even chucking.

Hyperextension is a different case because Bumrah has a lot of hyperextension of the elbow, which makes it look almost unreal that his hand can bend that far back.
 
Bewal Express said:
I asked for the law. Afterall it's the law we play but not statements
Click to expand...

Straight from the ICC website -

An Illegal Bowling Action is where a player is throwing rather than bowling the ball. This is defined by the ICC as being where the player’s elbow extends by an amount of more than 15 degreesbetween their arm reaching the horizontal and the ball being released.



Now please tell me how Bumrah's action is even close to being illegal? Is Malinga a chucker for you? Shoiab akhtar?
 
Mesozoic said:
Straight from the ICC website -

An Illegal Bowling Action is where a player is throwing rather than bowling the ball. This is defined by the ICC as being where the player’s elbow extends by an amount of more than 15 degreesbetween their arm reaching the horizontal and the ball being released.



Now please tell me how Bumrah's action is even close to being illegal? Is Malinga a chucker for you? Shoiab akhtar?
Click to expand...

Does it extend by more than 15 degrees
 
I doubt he chucks. His hyperextension makes it look like that but we can only guess.

Every bowler with hyperextension must be tested as it is not possible to clearly distinguish with naked eye. I think Pakistanis are correct in saying that Bumrah doesn't get called out due to his nationality. Had Hasnain or Harris been performing as good as Bumrah, they would have made multiple visits to testing labs already.

Anyhow, I don't know why this topic is brought up just when he took a fifer. It comes off as petty.
 
Greenstorm said:
I doubt he chucks. His hyperextension makes it look like that but we can only guess.

Every bowler with hyperextension must be tested as it is not possible to clearly distinguish with naked eye. I think Pakistanis are correct in saying that Bumrah doesn't get called out due to his nationality. Had Hasnain or Harris been performing as good as Bumrah, they would have made multiple visits to testing labs already.

Anyhow, I don't know why this topic is brought up just when he took a fifer. It comes off as petty.
Click to expand...

I brought up the topic last year. Someone started this again this week
 
cricketjoshila said:
What ICC says is the law.
Click to expand...

As you guys keep posting the ICC, it says"Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control". Are you saying that Bumrahs extension is not related to his pace at all. So his extension is the same irrespective of his pace?
 
Bewal Express said:
As you guys keep posting the ICC, it says"Gunn displays a high degree of hyperextension in her bowling arm which she is unable to control". Are you saying that Bumrahs extension is not related to his pace at all. So his extension is the same irrespective of his pace?
Click to expand...

On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.


This is the part of the statement that you didn't post.

ICC specifically says that hyperextension doesn't count in ICC threshold.
 
cricketjoshila said:
On the basis that hyperextension does not count in the ICC extension threshold of 15 degrees, all of her deliveries recorded during testing were within the ICC tolerance threshold.


This is the part of the statement that you didn't post.

ICC specifically says that hyperextension doesn't count in ICC threshold.
Click to expand...

My question to you is simple. Does Bumrahs hyperextension change with his pace?
 
Bewal Express said:
No the laws of cricket come from the MCC.
Click to expand...

MCC doesn't run the game. They have no authority on Bumrah BCCI or world cricket.

If ICC says its correct, then its correct.

MCC is only copyright owner of the laws. They don't run the game.
 
Bewal Express said:
Yes. He is a chucker
Click to expand...


So you think his elbow bends more than 15° horizontally at the time of release. Great!

Can you post one picture of him "chucking" here? You seem rather sure about it so you might find a ton of those online. Just pick one and post it here. We can discuss further.

Thanks! :)
 
Nikhil_cric said:
So was Akhtar a chucker then?
Click to expand...

street cricketer said:
Did you think Akhtar was a chucker too?
Click to expand...

Akhtar was called up by ICC repeatedly and Everytime cleared their tests. Indian former players insultantingly used to call him chucker but he was never tested beyond 15 degree

The question of Bunrah is why is he not even being tested by ICC once? If it's suspect, just test him
 
Last edited:
KyoOne said:
Akhtar was called up by ICC repeatedly and Everytime cleared their tests. Indian former players insultantingly used to call him chucker but he was never tested beyond 15 degree

The question of Bunrah is why is he not even being tested by ICC once? If it's suspect, just test him
Click to expand...

It's not suspicious, that's why he has never been tested. No former player or cricket pundit has even questioned his action. The only ones questioning his action are some bitter Pak fans.
 
KyoOne said:
Akhtar was called up by ICC repeatedly and Everytime cleared their tests. Indian former players insultantingly used to call him chucker but he was never tested beyond 15 degree

The question of Bunrah is why is he not even being tested by ICC once? If it's suspect, just test him
Click to expand...

Who said Bumrah's action is suspect?
 
Harbajhan and Ojha played after Ajmal, etc were banned. They were never called (despite having very suspect actions) for testing.

Narine who has been chucking for ages (reason why he doesn't play internationals) but is welcomed by BCCI.

Indian board is a bully board who would not allow the umpire who reports Bumrah, etc, to officiate in IPL. No umpire dares to provoke the thugs of cricket
 
People suspecting Bumrah not being called by umpires bcoz he plays for India. What is the guarantee that even if he is called for testing, he wont be given a clean chit by ICC? If BCCI can influence the umpires, they can influence ICC testers as well no?

So some people will never be satisfied and will cry for conspiracy but there is no way to prove otherwise. We have to take umpires judgement at the face value and if he is not being called that means he is not chucking.
 
His action looks fine when he’s bowling front on (similar to Shoaib).

However some question marks arise when looking side on with a slow mo camera.

The law says 15 degrees so he maybe with in it. Guess we will only ever know if he gets reported and then Tested - that will probably not happen.

I will say in his defence he has a strong cocked wrist so just before the ball is released (from side on angle) it looks worse than it actually is.

I will overall give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Who said Bumrah's action is suspect?
Click to expand...

Who said Akhtar's was suspect?

Bumrah has unusual action and optical illusion it creates is that he might be chucking, just like Akhtar's action used to create.

If Akhtar was repeatedly tested for action, why's Bumrah being treated any differently
 
KyoOne said:
Akhtar was called up by ICC repeatedly and Everytime cleared their tests. Indian former players insultantingly used to call him chucker but he was never tested beyond 15 degree

The question of Bunrah is why is he not even being tested by ICC once? If it's suspect, just test him
Click to expand...


ICC tests only those who get reported for chucking by either the opponent or the umpires. They can't just start testing every tom, dick and harry just because a few random online forumers are salty about him picking loads of wickets.
 
KyoOne said:
Harbajhan and Ojha played after Ajmal, etc were banned. They were never called (despite having very suspect actions) for testing.

Narine who has been chucking for ages (reason why he doesn't play internationals) but is welcomed by BCCI.

Indian board is a bully board who would not allow the umpire who reports Bumrah, etc, to officiate in IPL. No umpire dares to provoke the thugs of cricket
Click to expand...


:91:


When all is lost, just resort to the good ol' "muh BCCI big bad evil bully :murali" rhetoric and duck away.

So neat..
 
Hitman said:
Some sour loser Pak fans.
Click to expand...

Who was sour loser when Akhtar was repeatedly labelled chucker by former Indian players, media and fans? Despite clearing the ICC tests repeatedly.

Sour loser would be us if we label Bumrah as DEFINITE chucker after he clears the test, as was the case with Akhtar.

All we call him is suspect.

If anything, it's Indian fans who was acting sour for calling a bowler with unusual action, who happens to be from India, as suspect. There's nothing to be sour about that
 
Mesozoic said:
So you think his elbow bends more than 15° horizontally at the time of release. Great!

Can you post one picture of him "chucking" here? You seem rather sure about it so you might find a ton of those online. Just pick one and post it here. We can discuss further.

Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

His arm straightens by 34 degrees. The rest is semantics
 
Mesozoic said:
:91:


When all is lost, just resort to the good ol' "muh BCCI big bad evil bully :murali" rhetoric and duck away.

So neat..
Click to expand...

BCCi is all holy, in your opinion?

And why can't you answer my question instead of posting random rubbish?

Why does Narine play in IPL with a very suspect action, so much so that he doesn't play internationals to avoid being reported?

Same umpires who reported players from most test playing nations never reported clearly suspect Indian players like Harbajhan and Ojha. Why was that?
 
Mesozoic said:
ICC tests only those who get reported for chucking by either the opponent or the umpires. They can't just start testing every tom, dick and harry just because a few random online forumers are salty about him picking loads of wickets.
Click to expand...

When did I or anyone else deny this?

This is exactly what I was adding to, that umpires don't even dare to call Indian players, hence they've never been tested. You need basic comprehension lessons my friend.

Shami, Ishant have picked way more wickets than Bumrah, no one's been salty. Stop calling names when you're running out of arguments. Have some basic decency to stick to the topic
 
Last edited:
Hyperextension is not a common occurrence in cricket rather a unique one. I doubt umpires on the field and people watching are expert enough or have experienced it enough in cricket to call any action as hyperextension.

There is no defence of how his case of “possible” hyperextension has been handled completely differently over the years than very few other cases we have seen before. Its not rocket science to test anyone whose elbow is going beyond 15 degrees and then if there is any medical condition or a concept like hyperextension applies give levy based upon that.

Concept and debate around hyperextension aside, I think Bumrah is yet to be officially tested to conclude anything regarding hypertension. There is no way you can give clean chits based upon hypertension to anyone including Bumrah without the individual by actually tested at the biometric lab.
 
This thread becomes alive every time Bumrah picks a 5 fer or plenty of wickets.

In my opinion let the umpires and ICC do their job.

Dont think he chucks but he is brilliant to watch just like Akhtar or Malinga.
 
KyoOne said:
Akhtar was called up by ICC repeatedly and Everytime cleared their tests. Indian former players insultantingly used to call him chucker but he was never tested beyond 15 degree

The question of Bunrah is why is he not even being tested by ICC once? If it's suspect, just test him
Click to expand...

Akhtar got tested because the umpires didn't really understand hyperextension and that is why his action was promptly okayed by the biomechanics testing centre because they understood it unlike the umpires then. In short, Akhtar's action got questioned out of ignorance by people.

Nowadays everyone understands hyperextension, at least the umpires do. Why would the umpires report Bumrah and subject him to whatever Akhtar was subjected to in the past just because a few Pakistani fans don't know what hyperextension means?
 
Titan24 said:
Concept and debate around hyperextension aside, I think Bumrah is yet to be officially tested to conclude anything regarding hypertension. There is no way you can give clean chits based upon hypertension to anyone including Bumrah without the individual by actually tested at the biometric lab.
Click to expand...

I hope Bumrah doesn't forget his BP tablets before the match:yk

On a serious note, you don't really need a biometrics lab to identify hyperextension just like you don't need complicated lab tests to identify flexion and extension of the elbow joint.

A proper lateral view would be enough to identify hyperextension of an elbow joint.

images (4).jpg

images (3).jpeg
 
KyoOne said:
BCCi is all holy, in your opinion?

And why can't you answer my question instead of posting random rubbish?

Why does Narine play in IPL with a very suspect action, so much so that he doesn't play internationals to avoid being reported?

Same umpires who reported players from most test playing nations never reported clearly suspect Indian players like Harbajhan and Ojha. Why was that?
Click to expand...


What on earth are you on about ? :91:


Narine was banned multiple times by the ICC but then remodelled his action, cleared the test and came back. His action has nothing to do with his absence from international cricket. Or maybe you know something definitive to suggest otherwise that I don't. And just FYI, Narine was reported for suspect bowling action in the IPL. So don't know where you got that from..

Ojha was banned from bowling around the same time Ajmal was. So a big lol at "Indian players go unharmed". And bhajji too started bowling with a renewed action from around 2015 , but he was pretty much out of contention for the Indian team.
 
KyoOne said:
Who was sour loser when Akhtar was repeatedly labelled chucker by former Indian players, media and fans? Despite clearing the ICC tests repeatedly.

Sour loser would be us if we label Bumrah as DEFINITE chucker after he clears the test, as was the case with Akhtar.

All we call him is suspect.

If anything, it's Indian fans who was acting sour for calling a bowler with unusual action, who happens to be from India, as suspect. There's nothing to be sour about that
Click to expand...

Wasnt it Star Plus that used to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about his action, it was really sickening actually, talk about a with hunt. It was always the indians that used to go on about him
 
KyoOne said:
When did I or anyone else deny this?

This is exactly what I was adding to, that umpires don't even dare to call Indian players, hence they've never been tested. You need basic comprehension lessons my friend.

Shami, Ishant have picked way more wickets than Bumrah, no one's been salty. Stop calling names when you're running out of arguments. Have some basic decency to stick to the topic
Click to expand...

That's because they aren't on the same pedestal as Bumrah is.
 
street cricketer said:
I hope Bumrah doesn't forget his BP tablets before the match:yk

On a serious note, you don't really need a biometrics lab to identify hyperextension just like you don't need complicated lab tests to identify flexion and extension of the elbow joint.

A proper lateral view would be enough to identify hyperextension of an elbow joint.

View attachment 111033

View attachment 111034
Click to expand...

Lol! I guess I have to blame auto fill/correct here to make it hypertension rather than hyperextension.

Coming to the lateral view I think yes it possibly can be identified however, its a professional sport and I personally think testing is more conclusive than naked eye. If Akhtar and some other cricketers were tested to make it conclusive there is no reason to not apply the same procedure to Bumrah.

Its not like someone new with hyperextension is going to come in every few months to international cricket so if there is one then just test him and clear him following the similar procedure as for the ones before. As I personally when you dont create or follow already created protocols questions can come in if any other guy with hypertension comes in and is asked to be given a test just like the ones before Bumrah were asked to do.

In my opinion there should be a standard protocol for hypertension or a medical issue related to bones, structure etc.
 
Last edited:
Titan24 said:
Lol! I guess I have to blame auto fill/correct here to make it hypertension rather than hyperextension.

Coming to the lateral view I think yes it possibly can be identified however, its a professional sport and I personally think testing is more conclusive than naked eye. If Akhtar and some other cricketers were tested to make it conclusive there is no reason to not apply the same procedure to Bumrah.

Its not like someone new with hyperextension is going to come in every few months to international cricket so if there is one then just test him and clear him following the similar procedure as for the ones before. As I personally when you dont create or follow already created protocols questions can come in if any other guy with hypertension comes in and is asked to be given a test just like the ones before Bumrah were asked to do.

In my opinion there should be a standard protocol for hypertension or a medical issue related to bones, structure etc.
Click to expand...

There you go again:misbah

To be clear, it is very easy to identify from the naked eye whether a person is having hyperextension or not. It's to find out what degree of hyperextension he has while bowling, you need a biometric lab.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
This thread becomes alive every time Bumrah picks a 5 fer or plenty of wickets..
Click to expand...
Lol true!

He didn't pick a wicket in WTC final and was totally miserable in it. No one accused him of chucking then.

He picks up 9 wickets in a test and haters are out in full force.
 
The only guy still chucking is probably hafeez. But then again, without his chucking, Pakistan would have lost that T20 and the series to Windies. :)
 
Titan24 said:
Lol! I guess I have to blame auto fill/correct here to make it hypertension rather than hyperextension.

Coming to the lateral view I think yes it possibly can be identified however, its a professional sport and I personally think testing is more conclusive than naked eye. If Akhtar and some other cricketers were tested to make it conclusive there is no reason to not apply the same procedure to Bumrah.

Its not like someone new with hyperextension is going to come in every few months to international cricket so if there is one then just test him and clear him following the similar procedure as for the ones before. As I personally when you dont create or follow already created protocols questions can come in if any other guy with hypertension comes in and is asked to be given a test just like the ones before Bumrah were asked to do.

In my opinion there should be a standard protocol for hypertension or a medical issue related to bones, structure etc.
Click to expand...

So Bumrah should be able to get his another 50% from the 1st picture. If anyone believes that they need to show the evidence. For me he is a blatant chucker
 
street cricketer said:
There you go again:misbah

To be clear, it is very easy to identify from the naked eye whether a person is having hyperextension or not. It's to find out what degree of hyperextension he has while bowling, you need a biometric lab.
Click to expand...

Man this auto fill is useful on most occasions but, not for uncommonly used words. :afridi

Yes in my opinion the extent needs to be checked and I think entire motion needs to be verified as a standard procedure in such cases.
 
MP2011 said:
Lol true!

He didn't pick a wicket in WTC final and was totally miserable in it. No one accused him of chucking then.

He picks up 9 wickets in a test and haters are out in full force.
Click to expand...

It was an analysis done by Sky Sports which raised eyebrows of the attentive viewers. Probably a tongue in cheek move by Sky producers.

I hope someone can find the clip, upload it and share the link here.
 
As someone who hates Hafeez, he is legit in comparison to likes of Ojha, Ashwin or Bumrah.

People get emotional and thread always end up in an eternal Pak v Ind slugfest :facepalm:
 
Bewal Express said:
So Bumrah should be able to get his another 50% from the 1st picture. If anyone believes that they need to show the evidence. For me he is a blatant chucker
Click to expand...

Yes valid point that hyperextension doesnt mean you can extend elbow as much as you want while using hyperextension as a blanket cover.

As I suggested biometric test in such cases should be a standard protocol to define if and how much is his natural hyperextension and than use that as a benchmark for his bowling action.
 
Mesozoic said:
Because no one has reported him. Because players and officials actually understand how hyperextension works.

Unfortunately can't say the same about few :afridi
Click to expand...

So all bowlers that get suspected get tested bar the Ind ones. Indians have a license to chuck
 
Mesozoic said:
Because no one has reported him. Because players and officials actually understand how hyperextension works.

Unfortunately can't say the same about few :afridi
Click to expand...

Do you agree that if your theory is right Bumrah should be able to hyperextend 50% more than the picture, exactly the same way in the image.
 
Bewal Express said:
Why hasnt Bumrah been tested.
Click to expand...

Because he hasn’t been called. He hasn’t been called because there is nothing suspicious about his bowling. It may look awkward and quirky but that’s not enough to get called.

Your approach is completely misplaced. You view the chucking law as a sword when actually it’s a shield to defend the spirit of the game and the enjoyment for fans. The icc shouldn’t be viewed as policemen to rule and bully players but to govern with a general consensus for the betterment of the game. The players that have been called like ajmal were rightly gaining an advantage by bending then straightening their arm.

Shohaib was called in 2002/2003 when biomechanics was in its infancy and purely the domain of Western Australia. Tests were very crude and the law of 10 degrees unnecessarily strict. Shohaib lost a lot of time between injuries and these tests away from the game. Nowadays with new testing methods you get a good view of a bowler in multiple angles and game situations. You have no idea if bumrah has undergone informal checks in icc accredited labs in Chennai or elsewhere. Again it’s a sword and shield scenario. When we have done informal testing in Pakistan with Saqlain we lost about 30 off spinners. That’s why there are hardly any off spinners in Pakistan.

You need people like bumrah, Shohaib etc in the game but you don’t want them to take the Mickey like ajmal or even James kirtley.
 
When Pakistanis start complaining about Indian bowling actions or the umpires and DRS being rigged, you know the team's doing great :ajmal
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
It was an analysis done by Sky Sports which raised eyebrows of the attentive viewers. Probably a tongue in cheek move by Sky producers.

I hope someone can find the clip, upload it and share the link here.
Click to expand...

Channel 7 had done a similar analysis and its posted here.

Bumrah has a unique action due to his hyper extension and thats why its analysed by experts.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Didnt stop him from chucking recently. A serial chucker like him should be permanently banned from bowling.
Click to expand...

Well if Bhajee can Chuck his way to 400 Test wickets then not sure why you are whining about Hafeez who doesn’t even turn most balls.

Anyway this match is a draw so it’s a meaningless 5 for :yk2
 
Bumrah is good but is over hyped. His action if fine, no issue.

Hafeez maybe Narine also there actions are oer analyzed.
Like reverse swing in years to come when Aus or Eng find a bowler slightly different they will call it an art form.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Bald Eagle
[PICTURE] A protest by Indian fans: England ny Bumrah pr he attack kr dya
Replies
42
Views
2K
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
[PICTURE] Does Jasprit Bumrah's presence have a negative impact on Mohammad Siraj's performance?
2 3 4
Replies
264
Views
4K
jnaveen1980
J
R
Could Jasprit Bumrah make it into Pakistan's all-time XI, assuming he were a Pakistani cricketer?
Replies
23
Views
966
kron
K
Ball Blazer
[VIDEO] Is this bowling action legal?
Replies
0
Views
250
Ball Blazer
Ball Blazer
FearlessRoar
[VIDEOS] Isa Guha calls Jasprit Bumrah a "MVP, most valuable primate" on air
Replies
60
Views
2K
Flat_Track_Bully
Flat_Track_Bully
Back
Top