Does Pakistan still produce faster pace bowlers than India?

[Hyperion66]

Bruv I’m not telling you too not get excited about them I’m literally referring to the thread title and saying the answer is no Pakistanis are still faster. Saini has great heat so does haris hopefully we’ll see both of them bowl in the World Cup this year and we’ll find out who’s got more nitrous. Plus you’ve never seen that haris guy bowl you probably think he’s some trundler so your putting him down go watch his bbl spells players were beaten by pure pace and they all looked shock when they get out cause he’s way too quick for them. On top of that haris has come from the streets zero domestic experience even than he’s doing that great he was playing in a under par subdivision league in Australia they picked him up from there imagine if he was brought up properly through the ranks earlier how much better he would be.

What the hell? Why would I think that he is a trundler. Not doubting his pace at all, not sure why you seem to imply that as if I am completely dismissive about his pace which I am not.

I acknowledge that he his very fast but I don't know if he is faster than Saini. I can't blindly take your word for it without any concrete evidence, can I? I agree with you that we need to wait and see who bowl faster in upcoming tournaments, we are in no position to judge before that due to lack of data.

As of now you haven't provided any data to prove you have faster bowlers. Saini is as fast as Haris if not more, Prasidh has clocked higher than Naseem and Avesh is similar to Musa speedwise.

https://www.iplt20.com/stats/2019/fastest-balls

 

[cricketjoshila]

First of all don’t get ahead of yourself. “Tear away fast bowler” who has just bamboozled the mighty lankans. It’s very early to say how good he is don’t get your hopes up we’ll judge in the Australian series.

Coming to rauf he is faster than Bumrah on average as well . Proof is in the picture since you always want proofs fastest Asian bowler on average speed in t20s. Plus he is bowling a lot quicker on average this year in the bbl.

View attachment 98240

How many International T20s has Rauf played?

These mighty lankans beat pakistan in pakistan in the last T20 series.

I will take performance in a T20s against Srilanka than a BBL match.

Bumrah has bowled at 150ks in tests and even in the last WC. Thing is Bumrah varies his pace. He can hit 150ks and then bowl a slower ball at 120ks. Thats why he is arguably the best LOI bowler by some distance.

Yesterday too, Saini bowled at 152ks and slower balls in 110s.

You need to vary pace in international cricket. Its not a domestic game where lesser batsman get out by pace only.

 

[tyron_woodley]

How many International T20s has Rauf played?

These mighty lankans beat pakistan in pakistan in the last T20 series.

I will take performance in a T20s against Srilanka than a BBL match.

Bumrah has bowled at 150ks in tests and even in the last WC. Thing is Bumrah varies his pace. He can hit 150ks and then bowl a slower ball at 120ks. Thats why he is arguably the best LOI bowler by some distance.

Yesterday too, Saini bowled at 152ks and slower balls in 110s.

You need to vary pace in international cricket. Its not a domestic game where lesser batsman get out by pace only.

best LOI bowler
best test bowler too.

lets see how he goes post injury though.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

This thread is about pace and not about skill , Pak atleast have 12 bowlers who can bowl quicker than their Indian counterparts. end of discussion and this thread.

 

[Minnowbasher]

best LOI bowler
best test bowler too.

lets see how he goes post injury though.

Cummins is better in tests

 

[andy0204]

Cummins is better in tests

Please don't tell to him,Now he will start his own theories that Cummins is a failure at subcontinent,he didn't prove there.
Bumrah is better.

 

[Hyperion66]

This thread is about pace and not about skill , Pak atleast have 12 bowlers who can bowl quicker than their Indian counterparts. end of discussion and this thread.

Why don't you provide the names and speed chart to back your claim before unilaterally ending the discussion?

 

[Mean&Green]

How many International T20s has Rauf played?

These mighty lankans beat pakistan in pakistan in the last T20 series.

I will take performance in a T20s against Srilanka than a BBL match.

Bumrah has bowled at 150ks in tests and even in the last WC. Thing is Bumrah varies his pace. He can hit 150ks and then bowl a slower ball at 120ks. Thats why he is arguably the best LOI bowler by some distance.

Yesterday too, Saini bowled at 152ks and slower balls in 110s.

You need to vary pace in international cricket. Its not a domestic game where lesser batsman get out by pace only.

 

[Mean&Green]

I suggest anyone having a doubt on his pace [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] go watch the bbl right now khawaja and hales can’t lay a bat on his ball and they are world class batsman and they dropped a catch off of his bowling in the first over right now. Plus Joshila this thread is about pace bowling not who’s better and who’s played more games so stick to the topic.

 

[Mean&Green]

What the hell? Why would I think that he is a trundler. Not doubting his pace at all, not sure why you seem to imply that as if I am completely dismissive about his pace which I am not.

I acknowledge that he his very fast but I don't know if he is faster than Saini. I can't blindly take your word for it without any concrete evidence, can I? I agree with you that we need to wait and see who bowl faster in upcoming tournaments, we are in no position to judge before that due to lack of data.

As of now you haven't provided any data to prove you have faster bowlers. Saini is as fast as Haris if not more, Prasidh has clocked higher than Naseem and Avesh is similar to Musa speedwise.

https://www.iplt20.com/stats/2019/fastest-balls

It’s about average speed what we are talking about here and I’ve already provided you the proof that rauf is then fastest Asian bowler in t20s in 2019 which clearly showed in that graphic but if you want to deny it go ahead but it’s right infront so idk what else you’re asking me to prove we have faster bowlers or not our one is faster than your fastest.

 

[Hyperion66]

I suggest anyone having a doubt on his pace [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] go watch the bbl right now khawaja and hales can’t lay a bat on his ball and they are world class batsman and they dropped a catch off of his bowling in the first over right now. Plus Joshila this thread is about pace bowling not who’s better and who’s played more games so stick to the topic.

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] bhaiji can you kindly post current BBL speed chart for Haris when you get a chance? I know I have been bugging you quite a lot of late, sorry about that

 

[Hyperion66]

View attachment 98242

Saini clocked 152.2kph just yesterday lol.

 

[Mean&Green]

Saini clocked 152.2kph just yesterday lol.

Ok so average speed last year rauf was the fastest Asian bowler so his one delivery isn’t gonna make him slower btw he’s clocked 154 in psl as well but now I can’t go through clips and find it for you but since you hate me you won’t beleive me anyways. Saini is extremely quick as well anyways this is quite useless until they play at a bigger stage together

 

[cricketjoshila]

I suggest anyone having a doubt on his pace [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] go watch the bbl right now khawaja and hales can’t lay a bat on his ball and they are world class batsman and they dropped a catch off of his bowling in the first over right now. Plus Joshila this thread is about pace bowling not who’s better and who’s played more games so stick to the topic.

152.2 is still faster than 150.5

Regarding hitting 150, atleast 3-4 Indian bowlers hit 150ks in the last IPL and the link is posted above.

And better batsmen than Hales and Khawaja play the IPL.

And please dont use the word world class in such a loose way.

 

[Mean&Green]

152.2 is still faster than 150.5

Regarding hitting 150, atleast 3-4 Indian bowlers hit 150ks in the last IPL and the link is posted above.

And better batsmen than Hales and Khawaja play the IPL.

And please dont use the word world class in such a loose way.

So khawaja isn’t world class? The guy who recently slapped you up in your own backyard lol ok

 

[Mean&Green]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] I know you are already hurt over his action as well since you clearly mentioned that in the other thread one it’s about average speed rauf average speed is 145+ today he’s bowled another one at 151.3 kph

 

[tyron_woodley]

Cummins is better in tests

bumrah is better in every format. bumrah outbowled him in australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

So khawaja isn’t world class? The guy who recently slapped you up in your own backyard lol ok

dude rauf is fast.
saini is fast.

both are speedy. who cares over 2 km differences lol.

both have potential to be good in longer formats.

I live in Australia and I have seen haris play live. He is the quicker than almost all Aussies. He has decent skills too. Can't vary the pace. Good talent. Let's see if he gets since chances for pakistan
Pakistani board is stupid. I don't understand why they wouldn't give him a chance and instead opted for irfan who is a trundling fodder.

They must have fallen for junaid height theory lol.

 

[cricketjoshila]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] I know you are already hurt over his action as well since you clearly mentioned that in the other thread one it’s about average speed rauf average speed is 145+ today he’s bowled another one at 151.3 kph View attachment 98244

Lol. Why should i be hurt?

There are a number of indian bowlers bowling at 150ks and in international cricket.

Its not about avg speed. Its top speed.

Akhtar is the fastest bowler, because he bowled the fastest bowl ever. Else Lee was equally fast in avg pace, if not faster.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So khawaja isn’t world class? The guy who recently slapped you up in your own backyard lol ok

No he is not world class. He was a avg international player and hence he isnt in the team.

Avg players sometimes play a good innings, nothing wrong in that. Slapped?lol

You really are into hyperbole?

 

[Abdullah719]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] bhaiji can you kindly post current BBL speed chart for Haris when you get a chance? I know I have been bugging you quite a lot of late, sorry about that

I don't think BBL has a top speeds chart like IPL. Haris Rauf clocked 151.3 today though, maybe more as I didn't see speeds for all the deliveries.

 

[Mean&Green]

No he is not world class. He was a avg international player and hence he isnt in the team.

Avg players sometimes play a good innings, nothing wrong in that. Slapped?lol

You really are into hyperbole?

Rauf clocked 152 kph in the first ball of the of the 18th over what do you mean khawaja is not world class he was the man of the series in that series if I remember plus you have to be world class to play for Australia. I think you are confusing world class with elite class that would be only kohli Sharma babar willliamson at the moment in Odis.

 

[Manunited18]

Lol. Why should i be hurt?

There are a number of indian bowlers bowling at 150ks and in international cricket.

Its not about avg speed. Its top speed.

Akhtar is the fastest bowler, because he bowled the fastest bowl ever. Else Lee was equally fast in avg pace, if not faster.

Lee was not quicker than akhter on average speed, in fact mohammad sami on average speed was quicker than lee

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Thing people should understand is that pace isn't everything. Shaheen and Naseem for all the pace they generate couldn't help Pakistan compete in Australia. It's the guile, confidence, strength of mind aided with good rhythm and good enough pace that matter. Steyn, Ryan Harris, Anderson are not 150+ bowlers. But they're better than any other fast bowlers in the last 10 years or so.

Pace bowling prospects from Pakistan, India, Australia, and other countries in the world all look very good. I think this decade will see the revival of pace bowling with captains looking for outright wins for the CWC games. Exciting times to watch cricket.

 

[Manunited18]

Shaheen 145k, naseem 145-150k, rauf 145-150+, hasnain 145-155k, I think pakistan has some serious heat to call on

 

[Manunited18]

Thing people should understand is that pace isn't everything. Shaheen and Naseem for all the pace they generate couldn't help Pakistan compete in Australia. It's the guile, confidence, strength of mind aided with good rhythm and good enough pace that matter. Steyn, Ryan Harris, Anderson are not 150+ bowlers. But they're better than any other fast bowlers in the last 10 years or so.

Pace bowling prospects from Pakistan, India, Australia, and other countries in the world all look very good. I think this decade will see the revival of pace bowling with captains looking for outright wins for the CWC games. Exciting times to watch cricket.

Shaeen is 19, naseem is 18-19, hasnain 19, they are inexperienced

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Rauf maybe quicker over a 4 over spell but Pakistan need bowlers who can average 138 odd over an innings in tests and across many tests. Last decade, there was only Wahab who could do that and he was a spraygun at times. This is where the development of the likes of naseem and Shaheen will be key. Rauf does not look like a bowler capable of sustaining speeds over longer spells.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Shaeen is 19, naseem is 18-19, hasnain 19, they are inexperienced

Wahab and Amir could do jack last time around with all their experience. Years matter if there is something between one's ears. Hopefully Shaheen and Naseem can develop in that area rather than just increasing their pace. Signs are good though.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

In here just to say that everything in Pakistan should not be compared to India. why not compare to Australia, West Indies and South Africa as well? Too much obsession with India.

 

[Manunited18]

Wahab and Amir could do jack last time around with all their experience. Years matter if there is something between one's ears. Hopefully Shaheen and Naseem can develop in that area rather than just increasing their pace. Signs are good though.

Wahab never has been a inteligent bowler bar his pace, as for Amir the 5 year ban really diminshed his real quality, shaeen and naseem have Hugh potential with a good nouse

 

[NoBallZombie]

Sad that you didn't find my curiosity genuine my friend , I am afraid I couldn't care less though.

1. A league that features the best batsmen all over the world vs the one with mostly Aussie domestics!! I am sorry but it's not even a comparison lol. Hell Aussie regulars aren't even playing this year for crying out loud. This is like comparing the quality of soccer played in La Liga with the Turkish league. You can choose to believe whatever gives you peace but I must tell you it is not normal to think BBL has better batting than IPL. BTWI am not a regular IPL audience but I do try to keep myself updated.

What competition? Associate matches are often more competitive than the regular ones, it means they are of similar strength, does not mean that they play higher quality cricket than the full members lol. Can't believe I am actually explaining such basics!!

2. No machine language brother, just common sense. Bowlers far above Haris' pay grade get regularly slaughtered in IPL. Now neither Haris will ever play IPL nor will I be ever able to test that hypothesis of mine which is based on my observation, common sense and reasoning.

Do you watch BBL by the way? I don’t think anyone who has seen his spells would think any batsman can “slaughter” rauf in this form. He may have an odd expensive outing every now and then but no one is slaughtering guys like Rauf and Naseem when they have a ferocious bumper up their sleeves. I sense our pace attack is going to outgun quite a few in this decade.

 

[NoBallZombie]

Rauf maybe quicker over a 4 over spell but Pakistan need bowlers who can average 138 odd over an innings in tests and across many tests. Last decade, there was only Wahab who could do that and he was a spraygun at times. This is where the development of the likes of naseem and Shaheen will be key. Rauf does not look like a bowler capable of sustaining speeds over longer spells.

Don’t think rauf or hasnain are going to play too many tests. I reckon Shaheen and Naseem May be the all format bowlers for us and the former pair joins them in the LOIs

 

[cricketjoshila]

Rauf clocked 152 kph in the first ball of the of the 18th over what do you mean khawaja is not world class he was the man of the series in that series if I remember plus you have to be world class to play for Australia. I think you are confusing world class with elite class that would be only kohli Sharma babar willliamson at the moment in Odis.

Lol. Who told you you have to be world class to play for Australia? Lots of players make debuts and get repeated chances due to domestic form. Then they have more failures than success at international level, then they are dropped. That makes them avg players and not world class players.

Babbar isnt into elite class yet. He is what you call world class. Babar is world class,not Khawaja or Alex Hales.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lee was not quicker than akhter on average speed, in fact mohammad sami on average speed was quicker than lee

Yes Lee was. Lee was bowling 140k plus in IPL long after Akhtar retired. Lees fitness meant he could sustain his speed longer.

 

[IAJ]

The only difference is that India have started producing fast bowlers now and that should not surprise any one at all. They have all the facilities to develop the bowlers and just because of sheer Numbers of bowlers available combined with improved interest this was bound to happen. It would in fact have been embarrasing if they didn’t produce after so much effort they have put in last 10-15 years.

Pakistan on other hand have a tradition of producing express bowlers and after a halt things are getting back to normal again.

But for both countries you need to have fast bowlers who bowl fast for 7-10 years in international cricket. In that category so far there has been no competition. But if Bumrah and co can bowl quick for another 5-6 years then things might change.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The only difference is that India have started producing fast bowlers now and that should not surprise any one at all. They have all the facilities to develop the bowlers and just because of sheer Numbers of bowlers available combined with improved interest this was bound to happen. It would in fact have been embarrasing if they didn’t produce after so much effort they have put in last 10-15 years.

Pakistan on other hand have a tradition of producing express bowlers and after a halt things are getting back to normal again.

But for both countries you need to have fast bowlers who bowl fast for 7-10 years in international cricket. In that category so far there has been no competition. But if Bumrah and co can bowl quick for another 5-6 years then things might change.

Shami is playing for 6-7 years hasnt lost pace.
Yadav us playing for 8-9 years hasnt lost pace.
Bumrah is playing for 4 years hasnt lost pace.

I am talking about time in international cricket only.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Don’t think rauf or hasnain are going to play too many tests. I reckon Shaheen and Naseem May be the all format bowlers for us and the former pair joins them in the LOIs

Hasnain probably will. But not sure why Pakistan are reluctant to try haris in ODIs. He did pretty well in Pakistan Cup last year iirc. All format bowlers are not necessary imo. Atleast genuine fast bowlers should play only two formats .

 

[MMHS]

For last few years, the power has shifted in favour of India, for the first time in history; not may be in pace (PAK still probably had faster bowlers between 2011 to 2019), but skill wise Indian pacers moved ahead.

Next batch could be different though - Bumrah with his action might struggle for sustainability, while other 3 are over 30 already. In contrary, in Shaheen, Naseem, Hasnain & Rauf PAK’s next batch looks promising, may be Sameen as well and Adil isn’t too old yet. It’s up to WY to improve their skill set & intelligence, and durability- pace is not going to be an issue.

 

[IAJ]

Shami is playing for 6-7 years hasnt lost pace.
Yadav us playing for 8-9 years hasnt lost pace.
Bumrah is playing for 4 years hasnt lost pace.

I am talking about time in international cricket only.

I only consider Bumrah to be somewhat express who can consistently bowl 145 kph over a longer period of time. 3-4 years are still not equal to 7-10 years. The other two are more like 142 kph bowlers who have ability to hit 145+ occasionally.

Even Umar Gul were bowling 148 kph later in his career but no one considers him to be express.

 

[IAJ]

For last few years, the power has shifted in favour of India, for the first time in history; not may be in pace (PAK still probably had faster bowlers between 2011 to 2019), but skill wise Indian pacers moved ahead.

Next batch could be different though - Bumrah with his action might struggle for sustainability, while other 3 are over 30 already. In contrary, in Shaheen, Naseem, Hasnain & Rauf PAK’s next batch looks promising, may be Sameen as well and Adil isn’t too old yet. It’s up to WY to improve their skill set & intelligence, and durability- pace is not going to be an issue.

Sensible post as usual.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I only consider Bumrah to be somewhat express who can consistently bowl 145 kph over a longer period of time. 3-4 years are still not equal to 7-10 years. The other two are more like 142 kph bowlers who have ability to hit 145+ occasionally.

Even Umar Gul were bowling 148 kph later in his career but no one considers him to be express.

no one cares about 145 express fodders. varun Aaron bowls faster than all Pakistanis yet all Indians know he is trash. Average speed I am talking btw. Average speed.

Do they have skills to go along with pace is the question. they don't.

naseem is the only one and he bowls 141 on average. rest are under 140 on average.

 

[IAJ]

no one cares about 145 express fodders. varun Aaron bowls faster than all Pakistanis yet all Indians know he is trash. Average speed I am talking btw. Average speed.

Do they have skills to go along with pace is the question. they don't.

naseem is the only one and he bowls 141 on average. rest are under 140 on average.

Lol, Mohammad Sami at almost 40 is probably still faster than the trash Varun, and an aging Wahab Riaz too. And I doubt he is even faster than Haris Rauf.

Anyways I agree on that pace alone is overrated.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol, Mohammad Sami at almost 40 is probably still faster than the trash Varun, and an aging Wahab Riaz too. And I doubt he is even faster than Haris Rauf.

Anyways I agree on that pace alone is overrated.

wahab nor rauf are faster than aaron. even yadav used to bowl express before. He cut down to focus on line and length.

Aaron maybe **** but he is quick. express quick.

nathu singh is another extremely fast pacer. he is trash too.

wahab is trash
Sami is trash
all pure dud cannon fodders. I am talking about test cricket.

I doubt rauf has the capacity to bowl at pace in test cricket. He is going to be an odi specialist plus t20 pacer.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I only consider Bumrah to be somewhat express who can consistently bowl 145 kph over a longer period of time. 3-4 years are still not equal to 7-10 years. The other two are more like 142 kph bowlers who have ability to hit 145+ occasionally.

Even Umar Gul were bowling 148 kph later in his career but no one considers him to be express.

Yadav has bowled faster than Bumrah.

If you check speeds on most occasions Shami is only couple of ks less than Bumrah.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

wahab nor rauf are faster than aaron. even yadav used to bowl express before. He cut down to focus on line and length.

Aaron maybe **** but he is quick. express quick.

nathu singh is another extremely fast pacer. he is trash too.

wahab is trash
Sami is trash
all pure dud cannon fodders. I am talking about test cricket.

I doubt rauf has the capacity to bowl at pace in test cricket. He is going to be an odi specialist plus t20 pacer.

Doesn't matter. The next generation of pakistani pacers are more exciting. They've got pace, skills, some are tall even and they are young and fresh.

India's pacers are old or injury prone. And they haven't got much youngsters coming through. Saini is quick but lacks skillfulness.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Doesn't matter. The next generation of pakistani pacers are more exciting. They've got pace, skills, some are tall even and they are young and fresh.

India's pacers are old or injury prone. And they haven't got much youngsters coming through. Saini is quick but lacks skillfulness.

How do you know they are not coming through?

 

[Babbar]

We will get to know in U19 WC, which team has more interesting and faster young bowlers. Some teams expose their teenagers earlier to the grown men’s club, most others don’t.

But we will have a very fair idea about the upcoming pacers from different countries in about 4 weeks when they play agains their peer group.

 

[gazza619]

I will take your word for it.

Shaheen has got the gift of height, 138-142kph deliveries released from that height and pitching on the right length is bound to trouble the batsmen more than the ones delivered from normal height at the same speed and hitting the same length. My point being, Shaheen can generate the right amount of pace but what he lacks is control. If he can learn to control his natural abilities he doesn't have to bend his back to generate more pace, already got enough.

Completely agree, he has shown improvements in recent months though. I think we need to identify which fast bowlers need to be preserved for Tests and important ODIs and Shaheen is one of them. Will keep him away from T20s unless it is a WC.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

How do you make that claim? Whats the basis?

Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib(prior to losing his knees), Zahid, Sami. They were far more explosive athletes than any India has produced.

I've played with and against Indians. There are some regions like Punjab, Tamil Nadu and to an extent Uttar Pradesh that produce explosive athletes. Rajasthan has some good athletes as well but their frames are light.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We are confusing Ahtleticism with strength. Kohli, Jadeja will outrun any pakistani at this point. Pakistan developed a fast bowling culture. India developed a spin bowling culture. For the record India has so many muslims as well just in if we are giving some religious coating to this. Srinath was vegetarian easily quicker than all his non veg eating fast fellow bowlers. Agarlar for all his wiry frame did clock 140ks easily. Pakistan's own failure Mohammad Sami was also small framed. But he was able to bowl fast.

I have played with Paksitanis as well. Someone who looked like Vija Raaz the actor , was also trying to bowl fast. It is just the tape ball culture. Nothing more. We have discussed about this several times. Tape ball culture has indirectly contributed more fast bowlers. Tennis ball culture indirectly contributed great batsmen for India.

Right now with cricket becoming a professional sports and much more commercial sports than ever quest to stand out of the pack is increasing all the time. Also having a captain who has special liking for genuine fast bowling doesn't hurt our case.

The whole diet theory is **. I have seen many well built bowlers trundling. Holding, Stoinis, Christ Tremlett, Darrelly Tuffy, CDG. But the wiry Mark wood was easily clocking 147k. Look at cummins. Lean mean and fast. Almost all the genuine fast bowlers i know (Donald, Steyn, Brett lee) were also lean Apart from guys like Akhtar, Bond not many were bulkyu

Pakistan's own Mohammad Zahid was not exactly an ahtletic looking bowler either. Arm speed, shoulder effort all these things contribute to fast bowling.

 

[jnaveen1980]

If we are talking about "natural athletes" West Indies is the only country that produces that. They just have it in them. Others just work hard. Australians not just eat a lot protein also work very very hard. Much harder than Asians. India is much better now. But overall Asian team has produced some of the laziest fielders.

 

[praveen]

Doesn't matter. The next generation of pakistani pacers are more exciting. They've got pace, skills, some are tall even and they are young and fresh.

India's pacers are old or injury prone. And they haven't got much youngsters coming through. Saini is quick but lacks skillfulness.

What claim is this that only Pakistani bowlers are skillful? I watched a lot of the Australian series and the bowling attack was one of the worst i've ever seen Pakistan assemble. How can there be a better reality check than that series on where the bowling attack currently stand?

And i still don't understand how anyone around 30 is considered old these days. It's the current trend in this forum and laughable.

 

[tyron_woodley]

If we are talking about "natural athletes" West Indies is the only country that produces that. They just have it in them. Others just work hard. Australians not just eat a lot protein also work very very hard. Much harder than Asians. India is much better now. But overall Asian team has produced some of the laziest fielders.

I have played football in capital league 1 in Queensland. Believe me there are plenty of athletic strongly built Indians in FOOTBALL let alone cricket.
It just varies. Lot of Indians here are also tall. just depends on the person's interest and whether their parents allow them to be involved in sports.

 

[tyron_woodley]

If we are talking about "natural athletes" West Indies is the only country that produces that. They just have it in them. Others just work hard. Australians not just eat a lot protein also work very very hard. Much harder than Asians. India is much better now. But overall Asian team has produced some of the laziest fielders.

again it's the diet. their diet makes a difference. They are athletic because they all work out. west Indians love gym work. Most west Africans work out on a regular basis.

 

[NoBallZombie]

Just for the record, faster is not equal to better.

1. Indian bowlers currently are way better than Pakistani bowlers.
2. Next generation of Pakistani bowlers may or may not be better than the next gen of Indian bowlers. We cant know at this stage. The signs point towards that surely. 5 bowlers who are already in the system or nearby. Indians, apart from Saini, don't have any (AFAIK).
3. Diet does play a part in strengthening the body and so does better facilities and more awareness. What Indians may have lacked in diet is made up by the latter. We have had stronger bowlers from Punjab and KPK regions where people are stronger and have more natural diet. The south side would be more capable of better batsmen.

 

[Sidilicious]

Just for the record, faster is not equal to better.

1. Indian bowlers currently are way better than Pakistani bowlers.
2. Next generation of Pakistani bowlers may or may not be better than the next gen of Indian bowlers. We cant know at this stage. The signs point towards that surely. 5 bowlers who are already in the system or nearby. Indians, apart from Saini, don't have any (AFAIK).
3. Diet does play a part in strengthening the body and so does better facilities and more awareness. What Indians may have lacked in diet is made up by the latter. We have had stronger bowlers from Punjab and KPK regions where people are stronger and have more natural diet. The south side would be more capable of better batsmen.

Please quote me a study that states that Pakistani diet (beef) is superior for athleticism than a non beef or even a veg diet.

Also, the Indian system is a little different. Bowlers, are not brought in to the national team very early. All of them are expected to perform in the domestic arena before they get a chance in the international setup. Our domestic structure has improved significantly since the 90s, and is a lot more professional. So, just because we don’t have a couple of 19 yo in our nationl team doesn’t mean that there aren’t young guns in the domestic arena. The expectation is when they come to the Indian team, that they have enough skills to perform for the team. The national team is no longer a place to learn.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Please quote me a study that states that Pakistani diet (beef) is superior for athleticism than a non beef or even a veg diet.

Also, the Indian system is a little different. Bowlers, are not brought in to the national team very early. All of them are expected to perform in the domestic arena before they get a chance in the international setup. Our domestic structure has improved significantly since the 90s, and is a lot more professional. So, just because we don’t have a couple of 19 yo in our nationl team doesn’t mean that there aren’t young guns in the domestic arena. The expectation is when they come to the Indian team, that they have enough skills to perform for the team. The national team is no longer a place to learn.

our domestic structure is the best. Not about chest thumping. it's the truth. Australia and England are close second /third.

Only difference is politics is involved in selection process in india.

 

[docteurmanish]

Pak pace bowlers look very good . I
Liked Naseem shah ..

India has one huge advantage - it’s state cricket is cash rich . Saini bowled in 2017 for Delhi final and was ready to play for India but couldn’t as no spots in senior team - he has been bowling 4 years and looks ready for the next 6-7 years of pace - the state teams and ipl allow these guys a v v good livelihood .

Follow a bowler called gurbani - he performed bette than saini in 2017 - lost his action but is getting his groove back since dec 2019 . He will be India trump card in swing conditions

Point being indian domestic cricket has a crazy good fast bowling culture cos it gets u an ipl contract And kids know that . Add a gym culture and also the indian middle class is rich now .

Athletes are a function of gdp and sports culture - pak has good sport culture and dare I say genes ( just like Keralites have great football skills ) . Pak gdp ( gross domestic product ) is not what it was in the 80s I believe - think under Imran if economy becomes better pak will be in top 3 again but Indian cricket is poised to remain in top 3 for the next decade as fast bowling culture and money is there to stay -

Follow prasidh krishna , mavi , nagarkotti and even Arjun ( yes tendulkar ) porel . Most are 140 k and kohli wants them to bowl fast .
And they will all be ipl millionaires shortly

 

[tyron_woodley]

I hope the future indian captains encourage bowlers to bowl fast with good variations/skill luke kohli does with the current crop. India needs an aggressive captains like kohli for the future. Gill seems soft. iyer is soft.

 

[MenInG]

Stick to cricket only for this discussion

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

our domestic structure is the best. Not about chest thumping. it's the truth. Australia and England are close second /third.

Only difference is politics is involved in selection process in india.

Yeah that is why guys like Pant keep getting chances after chances whereas guys like Samson are discarded after 1 game.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I hope the future indian captains encourage bowlers to bowl fast with good variations/skill luke kohli does with the current crop. India needs an aggressive captains like kohli for the future. Gill seems soft. iyer is soft.

Kohli becomes soft too when the opposition is in strong position. For a reference you can look at the mid inning footage of CT 17 final.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Kohli becomes soft too when the opposition is in strong position. For a reference you can look at the mid inning footage of CT 17 final.

world number 1 in tests for the past 4 years. 34 months and counting. Almost tied with Graeme smith for the most amount of months as number 1 team in the world.

test is what counts. He is number 1 in the most difficult format. So yes he is a great captain.

I agree our own record could Improve though.

Dhoni was a great limited overs captain. Both are phenomenal in their own right. Kohli's legacy will be greater though.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

We will get to know in U19 WC, which team has more interesting and faster young bowlers. Some teams expose their teenagers earlier to the grown men’s club, most others don’t.

But we will have a very fair idea about the upcoming pacers from different countries in about 4 weeks when they play agains their peer group.

Some fans were hyping Mavi and Nagarkotti last time but I said Shaheen Shah will make a debut first because Pakistan has a very good habit of introducing their young bowlers as soon as possible into international cricket. We on the other hand will wait for Mavi and Nagarkotti to get married, have kids and then making their debuts for India.

 

[Pakhs]

After 140kphs accuracy and skill becomes much more important. No bowler will bowl 150kphs plus for most of his career anyway.

 

[Pakhs]

world number 1 in tests for the past 4 years. 34 months and counting. Almost tied with Graeme smith for the most amount of months as number 1 team in the world.

test is what counts. He is number 1 in the most difficult format. So yes he is a great captain.

I agree our own record could Improve though.

Dhoni was a great limited overs captain. Both are phenomenal in their own right. Kohli's legacy will be greater though.

Tests used to count more not anymore simply because mos teams have given up on test cricket outside of BIG 3! All great captains of the past have won ICC tournaments as captain. With the exception of maybe Smith.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Tests used to count more not anymore simply because mos teams have given up on test cricket outside of BIG 3! All great captains of the past have won ICC tournaments as captain. With the exception of maybe Smith.

that's what mediocre teams would do. test cricket is real cricket. test is only thing that matters.
then world cup odi

followed by t20

legends are made only in tests. no where else.

pakistan can stick to playing t20 if they want to.

 

[sindhiboy]

Pak pace bowlers look very good . I
Liked Naseem shah ..

India has one huge advantage - it’s state cricket is cash rich . Saini bowled in 2017 for Delhi final and was ready to play for India but couldn’t as no spots in senior team - he has been bowling 4 years and looks ready for the next 6-7 years of pace - the state teams and ipl allow these guys a v v good livelihood .

Follow a bowler called gurbani - he performed bette than saini in 2017 - lost his action but is getting his groove back since dec 2019 . He will be India trump card in swing conditions

Point being indian domestic cricket has a crazy good fast bowling culture cos it gets u an ipl contract And kids know that . Add a gym culture and also the indian middle class is rich now .

Athletes are a function of gdp and sports culture - pak has good sport culture and dare I say genes ( just like Keralites have great football skills ) . Pak gdp ( gross domestic product ) is not what it was in the 80s I believe - think under Imran if economy becomes better pak will be in top 3 again but Indian cricket is poised to remain in top 3 for the next decade as fast bowling culture and money is there to stay -

Follow prasidh krishna , mavi , nagarkotti and even Arjun ( yes tendulkar ) porel . Most are 140 k and kohli wants them to bowl fast .
And they will all be ipl millionaires shortly

gurbani deserves a test debut, he has phenomenal stats

and who was the bowler who bowls like a left handed james anderson?

thing is pak have supported shaheen and naseem brillioablty, india has not supported its young fast bowlers as ishant , shami can suffice india's needs, they dont need mavi and nagarkoti at this stage

also, isnt porel a medium pacer?

 

[Mesozoic]

ODI WC is 10 team WC and most teams have a chance where test cricket is easy to be in top 3 if you have the funds to play it. I know you dont like it and its hurting you perhaps if you are hurting so much you should advocate for richer boards to help out other financially.

Then perhaps the so called No.1 ranking will mean a bit which judging by your reaction you want it to mean a lot.

Richer boards are already helping out others by giving away their share of revenues generated mostly by them.

Nothing can be done if the players coming out of the "other" teams are just not good enough for Tests and neither giving excuses nor crying victim is going to help.

 

[tyron_woodley]

ODI WC is 10 team WC and most teams have a chance where test cricket is easy to be in top 3 if you have the funds to play it. I know you dont like it and its hurting you perhaps if you are hurting so much you should advocate for richer boards to help out other financially.

Then perhaps the so called No.1 ranking will mean a bit which judging by your reaction you want it to mean a lot.

not hurting at all. All I see is number 1 test ranking. Just a strong domestic system due to hard work, fitness and dedication.

test cricket is never easy. That's why it's called test cricket. It's a hard format. Pakistan have good talent but they don't nurture them well.

world cup comes after test cricket. test has always been the most premier decorated format. Something pakistan never dominated even when they had funds. Go take your excuses somewhere else. Pakistan may want to focus on shorter formats because their players lack the fitness to compete in test cricket. That's their problem.

Only the best can play test cricket. Pakistan at the moment lack talent. That's about it.

The next batch of under 19 is looking good though. So who knows. bowlers are good. batsmen are letting pakistan down. Still to this day they cant play bounce.

 

[hur rizvi]

Don’t understand the unnecessary need to compare everything

India after 60 years are now producing 90 mph bowlers

Pakistan have been producing 90 mph bowlers for 60 years

India producing faster bowlers than Pakistan? Not much difference. One day Hasnain, Naseem or Rauf might bowl faster, some other day saini or varun aaron might

India currently have better fast bowlers ? Yes by a country mile. Pakistan bowlers though have raw ingredients to be as good as anyone. But talent doesn’t always translate into consistency

 

[Bullet Drive]

Pakistan has

Hasnain who bowled one delivery at 96mph in CPL

Haris Rauf who bowled yesterday at 93mph in Big Bash

Musa who can bowl 90mph

Shinwari bowled 90mph in Big Bash

Shaheen bowls around 85-88mph which is good

Wahab Riaz was fastest bowler in BPL bowling 92mph

We also have few others who are quick.

India has who?

Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron and this new kid? And also Bumrah.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan has

Hasnain who bowled one delivery at 96mph in CPL

Haris Rauf who bowled yesterday at 93mph in Big Bash

Musa who can bowl 90mph

Shinwari bowled 90mph in Big Bash

Shaheen bowls around 85-88mph which is good

Wahab Riaz was fastest bowler in BPL bowling 92mph

We also have few others who are quick.

India has who?

Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron and this new kid? And also Bumrah.

Aaron? lol You are like 2 years late. Top of my head Mavi, Nagarkoti, Prasid krishna, Mohammad Siraj, Sandeep Warrier, Avesh Khan , Saini heck even Pandya has touched 147k. There are more rewards for genuine quicks because of IPL. So more motivation to bowl fast now than ever. Even Khaleel was touching 145k when he started. Once he gains weight he will also be faster. India has a better system in place to groom these guys.

 

[rollingstoned]

Please quote me a study that states that Pakistani diet (beef) is superior for athleticism than a non beef or even a veg diet.

Also, the Indian system is a little different. Bowlers, are not brought in to the national team very early. All of them are expected to perform in the domestic arena before they get a chance in the international setup. Our domestic structure has improved significantly since the 90s, and is a lot more professional. So, just because we don’t have a couple of 19 yo in our nationl team doesn’t mean that there aren’t young guns in the domestic arena. The expectation is when they come to the Indian team, that they have enough skills to perform for the team. The national team is no longer a place to learn.

i swear, people still peddle outdated stereotypes about diet even when evidence stares them straight in the face and throughly refutes it.

 

[Sidilicious]

Please quote me a study that states that Pakistani diet (beef) is superior for athleticism than a non beef or even a veg diet.

Also, the Indian system is a little different. Bowlers, are not brought in to the national team very early. All of them are expected to perform in the domestic arena before they get a chance in the international setup. Our domestic structure has improved significantly since the 90s, and is a lot more professional. So, just because we don’t have a couple of 19 yo in our nationl team doesn’t mean that there aren’t young guns in the domestic arena. The expectation is when they come to the Indian team, that they have enough skills to perform for the team. The national team is no longer a place to learn.

Just for the record, faster is not equal to better.

1. Indian bowlers currently are way better than Pakistani bowlers.
2. Next generation of Pakistani bowlers may or may not be better than the next gen of Indian bowlers. We cant know at this stage. The signs point towards that surely. 5 bowlers who are already in the system or nearby. Indians, apart from Saini, don't have any (AFAIK).
3. Diet does play a part in strengthening the body and so does better facilities and more awareness. What Indians may have lacked in diet is made up by the latter. We have had stronger bowlers from Punjab and KPK regions where people are stronger and have more natural diet. The south side would be more capable of better batsmen.

Any proof yet about the diet?

 

[docteurmanish]

gurbani deserves a test debut, he has phenomenal stats

and who was the bowler who bowls like a left handed james anderson?

thing is pak have supported shaheen and naseem brillioablty, india has not supported its young fast bowlers as ishant , shami can suffice india's needs, they dont need mavi and nagarkoti at this stage

also, isnt porel a medium pacer?

Porel is bowling fast now -

Dunno the left James

Pak supported Shaheen partly out of necessity .
Indian system looking well after its fast bowlers . If they ain’t in national team they still get to play ipl and state cricket . And earn well .

Not necessary to thrown in a 19 year old .. unless u are an ishant ( bounce - not many Indians have that )

 

[Kingpin786]

Porel is bowling fast now -

Dunno the left James

Pak supported Shaheen partly out of necessity .
Indian system looking well after its fast bowlers . If they ain’t in national team they still get to play ipl and state cricket . And earn well .

Not necessary to thrown in a 19 year old .. unless u are an ishant ( bounce - not many Indians have that )

How do you know porel is bowling fast?

 

[Shoaib88]

Pakistan undoubtedly has the fastest bowlers in the world!

 

[Manunited18]

Pakistan undoubtedly has the fastest bowlers in the world!

Yes no question, along with England and Australia, but yes pakistan have a battery of quicks

 

[tyron_woodley]

not england.

pakistan do yes and australia.