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Embarrassing way to play cricket - Heads need to roll

TheSultan said:
Management, strategy and approach make a difference Look at England - same team as last year, different leadership, different results.
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I completely agree with you, but I still think Mamoon’s point about the quality of players is worth discussion, because England was grossly underperforming under Root and Silverwood in terms of the talent at their disposal due to terrible tactical decisions, a miserable & tense dressing room and a complete loss of confidence.

Whereas it’s unclear if Pakistan’s talent pool is underperforming as much as England’s was, or, if they are actually delivering not far off the level that they are truly at.
 
Mamoon said:
There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.
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I will take that mediocrity, still the 4th best W/L ratio in Test cricket's history.

If Pakistan have been mediocre throughout history, India, West Indies, Sri Lanka and New Zealand have been more mediocre.
 
Unfortunately, Test cricket is not a priority for Pakistan right now.

They are doing well in the white ball formats.

But It will take some time for this Test team to improve its rankings.

We were a good Test team form 2010-2016 when we had Misbah and YK, and were consistently in the top 4.

But Test cricket has not been a priority ever since.

I expect this team to lose alot more, before they get better.
 
Saj said:
To be honest our Test team is really weak and this series against England will most likely be another wake-up call for fans.

From the top, to the selectors to the coaching staff - changes are needed.

The priority seems to be T20Is and the PSL resulting in Test cricket being an afterthought.
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Test side isnt great but there is no excuse at all for feeble performances at home. Both Aus and Eng were on their 1st tours to pakistan in years and PCB decides to roll out wickets which just nulify any home advantage, yeah we may still have lost but atleast give yourself best chance of having an advantage of the conditions. Aussies came here and won series with ease, then went to SL, did they roll out flat wickets? No they produced wickete to suit there strength spin and got a drawn series.

Yeah test cricket aint a priority which is a shambles as far as PCB goes, most glaring issue is the lack of intelligence and planning in key areas captain, coach, selectors, pitches etc...

The culture is all about players personal records and legacy. Like you ive watched pakistan for a long time, 1st back in 1987 and have to say ive started watching less and less cricket in last 2 years because of poor negative culture in pakistan cricket and way its being played. Sadly this like Aus series will be swept under carpet as they will say oh well we lost 2 or 3 nil but england came for a full tour. Its embarrassing the low standards PCB have now for its so called cricket team.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
I will take that mediocrity, still the 4th best W/L ratio in Test cricket's history.

If Pakistan have been mediocre throughout history, India, West Indies, Sri Lanka and New Zealand have been more mediocre.
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Sri Lanka is a tiny nation, it doesn’t have the resources Pakistan has. Same goes for New Zealand, where cricket is a distant second sport & their best athletes go to rugby.

West Indies have been a borderline minnow since the late 90’s but they reached heights in 70’s & 80’s that Pakistan cannot dream of.

India were very mediocre for large parts of their history but they made up for it in this millennium. Their Test side from 2016 to 2021 was the best ever in Asian history.

Pakistan has never experienced such highs & never will. Not good enough.
 
Whats even more shameful now is different parties lying about the pitch. Rameez implying that Babar wanted a flat pitch. Babar now implying he wanted a spin wicket. Zero accountability and people just lying to try and cover there own backs, its pathetic.
 
We need to accept we have limited resources. Yes, we can chop and change (and we should given this defeat) but the truth is that England are a much better side with much better players. The likes of Malan, Potts, Buttler, Moeen Ali etc would walk into most international teams but there is no room for them in this team. That needs to be accepted first and foremost.
 
Loralai said:
We need to accept we have limited resources. Yes, we can chop and change (and we should given this defeat) but the truth is that England are a much better side with much better players. The likes of Malan, Potts, Buttler, Moeen Ali etc would walk into most international teams but there is no room for them in this team. That needs to be accepted first and foremost.
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lol

They still said, “Go ahead and get 342 runs on a dead track with around 100 overs of play”. No matter how deep their resources are, this was chase able and it should have been chased.
 
Very embarrassing but this was bound to happen when you gi with 3 debutante and 1 defacto rookie in Agha, tbh Saqlian and Co. Underestimated Eng and paid the price
 
Mamoon said:
Different results because the players had potential & the different strategy was able to exploit that potential.

England have an embarrassment of riches when it comes aggressive-minded batsman. What they lack are classical, orthodox Test batsman.

Apart from Root & maybe Pope, they don’t have anyone right now who can play 250 balls in a Test innings but they have planet of batsmen who can score a 70 or an 80 in 100 balls.

This Bazball stuff was implemented out of necessity because England was going nowhere with their traditional approach. They just didn’t have the batsmen with that discipline & powers of concentration.

Bairstow was struggling to bat in Tests but as soon as McCullum & Stokes liberated hun & asked him to bat in Tests the way he does in ODIs, he started scoring for fun.

The deliveries that he was getting out to by poking outside the off stump or by getting bowled while playing tentative defensive shots were getting dispatched to the boundary because he no longer had any obligation to occupy the crease & see off the bowlers.

Jos Buttler has struggled a lot in Tests over the last year or so but if you bring him into the side now, he will turn into the demon that we see in ODI & T20 cricket.

Harry Brook averages mid 30s in County but he scored 240 runs at a SR of 130+ in a Test match. If not for Bazball, he would be averaging mid 30s in Test cricket too.

My point is that leadership makes a difference but only when you have good enough players to execute what you are trying to do.

There are hundreds of batsmen in County cricket who will fail to implement Bazball strategy because they don’t have the talent & skill to play such shots.

Someone like Cook, who is an England legend & still probably the best orthodox opener in County would be a resounding failure if he tries to play Bazball.

No leadership can turn average players into quality players. You cannot polish a **** but you can point good players in the right direction.

England’s transformation since the last summer is not because McCullum & Stokes have a magic wand who enhanced the talent & skill level of average players.

They transformed because the previous management was making these players play a style of cricket that was not their strength.

One can imagine the results if players like Azhar Ali, Masood, Fawad Alam etc. try their hands on Bazball. It just wouldn’t work.

I look at the current Pakistan team & I don’t see any genuine talent & the skill level seems very low. Apart from Babar, I don’t see any batsman with genuine world class potential. Maybe Babar would benefit from a top coach, but the others not so much.

The most basic, fundamental requirement of building a quality team is having quality players. You cannot substitute that with great leadership.

Great leadership will maximize the quality of the players & set them up for success. Similarly, bad leadership will minimize the quality of the players & set them up for failure.

But great leadership cannot make average players great. It never has & never will.

Babar might be a bad captain, Saqlain & Yousuf might be bad coaches, but Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the captaincy & the coaches but the fact that the pool of players is very average & I don’t see this set of players excelling under any leadership.
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Firstly, I’m not asking Pakistan to play bazball nor do I expect them to with what they have at their disposal. Chasing 340 in 4 sessions is not bazball - it’s normal cricket on one of the flattest tracks ever.

I’m not going to sit here and write an essay. The point is, and a very simple point - your approach to the game makes a difference to your performance. Yes talent may be limited, but you can always get more out of players with your approach and leadership. And then if you’re not good enough, so be it. But give yourself a chance.
 
James said:
I completely agree with you, but I still think Mamoon’s point about the quality of players is worth discussion, because England was grossly underperforming under Root and Silverwood in terms of the talent at their disposal due to terrible tactical decisions, a miserable & tense dressing room and a complete loss of confidence.

Whereas it’s unclear if Pakistan’s talent pool is underperforming as much as England’s was, or, if they are actually delivering not far off the level that they are truly at.
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Yes, of course it’s worth discussion, but as I said in my last post you have to find ways to get the most out of what you’ve got.

If all teams sat there and did nothing, then you might as well play cricket on paper.

What we as fans want to see is more ambition, more willingness to take some risks, better strategy.

Mamoon himself was dead against Root being replaced saying it won’t make a difference! I like reading his posts, some are great points, but he is just a debater changing his stance to win the argument at a particular moment in time. I don’t take him too seriously
 
Series loss to England in such a manner is not acceptable.

Babar needs to be sacked as captain
Saqi, moyo, mo wasim, rameez as well

Rizwan, Agha, Nawaz, zahid, Azhar, Shan, M Ali all need to be removed from squad as well.
 
I’m as angry as anyone at Babar, Azhar, and Joel Wilson and agree that Azhar needs to transition to coaching while Babar needs to simply become a batsman. However, the batsmen themselves have a lot to answer for when they bizarrely stopped playing shots when the target became less than 75. It was the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen in a cricket match not involving india.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Series loss to England in such a manner is not acceptable.

Babar needs to be sacked as captain
Saqi, moyo, mo wasim, rameez as well

Rizwan, Agha, Nawaz, zahid, Azhar, Shan, M Ali all need to be removed from squad as well.
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Thiers literally 1% chance of this happening.
 
How much do we want heads to roll? Anymore off that and the players and staff will just lose their heads!
 
PakLFC said:
How much do we want heads to roll? Anymore of that and the players and staff will just lose their heads!
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Plus too many heads are being asked to roll now, basically the entire staff and most of the team in one go are being asked to have their heads rolled!

To borrow a quote from Game of Thrones “do that and the place will be full of headless men!”
 
Over reaction as usual from fans.
There is a severe lack of quality long formats players in Pakistan. These kind of results are expected and ultraflat tracks take away whatever home advantage that can be utilized.

Captaincy could be better. PCB can look into that but rest is immaturity from fans.
 
Fans need to understand we don't have the talent at all this format at all
 
The win in Pindi has done more damage to Pakistan cricket than having to play 10 years in the desert of UAE

You just dont know where you stand as a cricket nation anymore
 
Babar, yousaf and saqlain should be unceremoniously sacked

This is beyond embarrassing ing. The brand of cricket they play. The team selection, the negativity, the strategies and the pitches.
They have made test cricket completely unwatchable. The worst part is the arrogance and entitlement.
 
Saqlain contract is ending in February anyways and the NZ series will be his last assignment.
 
Crazy how the coaches are getting all the blame, it’s not their fault that they have a mediocre team to manage.
 
A fast bowling captain will atleast ensure better pitches for pacers and a different brand.

We cant play spin nor can we produce turners. This strategy is doomed.
 
But this won't happen, especially since the series against NZ is coming shortly. So after the defeat to Aus and England,if by chance Pakistan does well against NZ then it will be regarded as sign of improvement and everyone keeps his job.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
Crazy how the coaches are getting all the blame, it’s not their fault that they have a mediocre team to manage.
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Lol weaker teams have won. No sane coach would pick zahid mehmood and faheem ashraf as front line bowlers on these pitches. You ok ?
 
boomboomcheema said:
But this won't happen, especially since the series against NZ is coming shortly. So after the defeat to Aus and England,if by chance Pakistan does well against NZ then it will be regarded as sign of improvement and everyone keeps his job.
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They dont deserve a single game. This is a gigantic disgrace.Yousaf was the worst test captain we had , and a negative influence. Babar and saqi are just as bad.
 
Worst management we've ever had, and I was no fan of the Misbah-Waqar combo.

We are sinking to new depths every match.
 
ethan hunt said:
Lol weaker teams have won. No sane coach would pick zahid mehmood and faheem ashraf as front line bowlers on these pitches. You ok ?
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Faheem Ashraf was our best pace bowling all rounder in the test format, he was dropped after being injured. Let’s not judge him by his LOI stats. Also, Saqi isn’t the CS…it’s not his fault that Abbas and Hassan Ali aren’t being picked.

Let’s be honest, if Zahid didn’t debut we’d all be crying “oh what’s the point of picking him in the squad if he’s not going to play” , “oh these pitches are suited to him”. All this Zahid Manmood selection nonsense is coming after the first test.
 
All three of them should go, hope Maulana TJ with consider that. RR should talk to him.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
Faheem Ashraf was our best pace bowling all rounder in the test format, he was dropped after being injured. Let’s not judge him by his LOI stats. Also, Saqi isn’t the CS…it’s not his fault that Abbas and Hassan Ali aren’t being picked.

Let’s be honest, if Zahid didn’t debut we’d all be crying “oh what’s the point of picking him in the squad if he’s not going to play” , “oh these pitches are suited to him”. All this Zahid Manmood selection nonsense is coming after the first test.
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Really??, I never saw such a useless player playing test for Pakistan, this his 7th year with Pakistan team and he remains a trash player in any format, time to show him the door for good, enough.
 
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.

Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.

Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
 
Sack this sack that then young Nauman will automatically turn into Herath.

It’s rotten to the core if Salman Agha is the future might as week bring back Imran Farhat!
 
YousafTheBeast said:
Faheem Ashraf was our best pace bowling all rounder in the test format, he was dropped after being injured. Let’s not judge him by his LOI stats. Also, Saqi isn’t the CS…it’s not his fault that Abbas and Hassan Ali aren’t being picked.

Let’s be honest, if Zahid didn’t debut we’d all be crying “oh what’s the point of picking him in the squad if he’s not going to play” , “oh these pitches are suited to him”. All this Zahid Manmood selection nonsense is coming after the first test.
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Zahid mehmood averages 38 in first class cricket. Nobody was gonna cry for him.
Faheem is a club level bowler who was shown his place in county cricket he cannot lead a test bowling attack.
 
Mamoon said:
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.

Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.

Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
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The tam is unwatchable right now. Someone who has the guts to ask for hood wickets with a bit of grass would do.
 
Mamoon said:
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.

Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.

Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
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Who is left. I doubt we have a quick better than Nasim. We prioritized t20s, created poor wickets in both first class and tests. All our reserve bowlers were wasted in t20s. Dahani lost out on 20 first class games warming the benches. Generally poor dumb planning which is typical of Pakistan. I think we are leading the world when it comes to poor tactics
 
ethan hunt said:
The tam is unwatchable right now. Someone who has the guts to ask for hood wickets with a bit of grass would do.
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And these jokers would have been shot out for 50-sub scores if there was a hint of grass on the wicket.

It’s a really bad team, there is no quality in there and no potential either. Babar alone is the only decent batter, everyone else is a joke.
 
sending rehan in at three, england is toying with Pakistan, it just goes to show england have zero fear of Pakistan now, and for that to happen in Pakistan conditions is absolutely tragic. absolutely joke test team, with zero pride or fight, saqi and babar have to face the chop.
 
Usman Chadda said:
And these jokers would have been shot out for 50-sub scores if there was a hint of grass on the wicket.

It’s a really bad team, there is no quality in there and no potential either. Babar alone is the only decent batter, everyone else is a joke.
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Babar a decent batsman? Just revisit the manner of his dismissals in this series, that too on home conditions.
 
The following will be looking over their shoulder at the moment and won't be sleeping easily:

Chairman
Chief Selector
Head Coach
Other coaching staff
Captain
 
Saj said:
The following will be looking over their shoulder at the moment and won't be sleeping easily:

Chairman
Chief Selector
Head Coach
Other coaching staff
Captain
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What about the non-performing vice captain?
 
[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] , do we really have a replacement of Babar Azam at the moment as the captain?

Unless we want rizwan or some rookie to captain the team there seems to be no option. Rizwan himself is struggling with the bat in test cricket.

Pakistan need to plan for a long time , pakistan hace failed to do that. We should not expect instant results. Pakistan were not ready for test crixket after the t20 world cup , england played wngland lions in UAE and our players didnt play anything after t20 wc. Our coaches either didnt know or didnt plan anything for the englands bazzball approach. Our selectors chose rookies from FC who performed in psl/t20s in the test team (wasim ,haris) and even though mohammad ali picked up wickets in domestic tournament but he didnt look much of a threat. Even english fans are admitting that pakistan bowling unit is one man attack and the rest are just fillers. Yes Babars captaincy has been questionable but there is only so much he can do with the players at his disposal. In the first two matches while batting in the last innings we came in winnable position , some 85 to get with 5 wickets remaining in tge first match ,53 runs to get with 5 wickets remaining in the 2nd test match.

With better prepapredness and planning we could have won the first two matches.
 
What will change?.

Select the best performing players at domestic level. Stop being cowards by having autobahns as pitches only to be humiliated because the batsmen have less mental fortitude than their limited talent.

You can mask the lack of talent with fight. This group under their cowardly captains and management has neither.

First of all, thanks to Allah.
 
SpiritOf1903 said:
What will change?.

Select the best performing players at domestic level. Stop being cowards by having autobahns as pitches only to be humiliated because the batsmen have less mental fortitude than their limited talent.

You can mask the lack of talent with fight. This group under their cowardly captains and management has neither.

First of all, thanks to Allah.
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The best performers from FC cricket are playing in this team. I have commented before the FC cricketers are an absolute joke and mentally very weak to be able to succeed at international level. Just looking at them play will show you all you need to know.

I know Saud Shakeel has scored a few useless runs in this series, but I don’t see him as a good player at all and he will be found out abroad. Rizwan has completely lost it, while we have someone as limited as Agha Salman representing us in Test cricket aswell.

It’s a complete shambles. The bowling was expected to fail based on lack of experience and quality, but the batting completely bombed situations where basic application was required.
 
Saj said:
The following will be looking over their shoulder at the moment and won't be sleeping easily:

Chairman
Chief Selector
Head Coach
Other coaching staff
Captain
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Add vice captain and 90% of squad picked as well.
 
Mamoon said:
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.

Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.

Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
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You said the same thing about Joe Root when he lost 9 out of 10 tests in a row. And look what a difference the leadership change made.

Now, pakistan doesn't have anyone of the quality of Stokes, but at least you can now realise how significant a change in captaincy can be.
 
Forum363 said:
You said the same thing about Joe Root when he lost 9 out of 10 tests in a row. And look what a difference the leadership change made.

Now, pakistan doesn't have anyone of the quality of Stokes, but at least you can now realise how significant a change in captaincy can be.
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Captaincy only makes a difference when you have quality players. England have amazing attacking players. They are simply being made to play a style of cricket that suits their strengths.

Pakistan lacks quality. No captain can come in & adopt a playing style that would bring the best out of them because they are useless. They cannot attack or defend. It is one of the most clueless lot of players Pakistan has ever had.

You give this Pakistan team to Stokes & he will be left scratching his head. Pakistan is a hopeless case. If people want Babar sacked for the sake of it that is fine, but don’t expect a turnaround as long as the same bunch of players are playing.
 
^ Also sack the PowerPoint selector. Pakistan needs to stop being funky with selections & go back to basics, pick the best performing seasoned FC players.

There is already zero talent in the country & you are only making things worse by selecting hyped up players who are not mentally or physically ready for the long format.
 
Look, we all knew that Pakistan couldn't match the England team and the way they play their cricket, but to give yourself a fighting chance pick your bloody strongest XI at least.

You pack your team with T20 style players who are not in form, don't have the basic skills to succeed in Test cricket, then what do you expect as the result.

You pick the likes of Faheem Ashraf, Zahid Mehmood, there is only one way the result is going to go.

3-0 may be a surprise to many, but is it really that big a surprise?
 
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It will be interesting to see how Pakistan go from here. I think all teams were little surprised by the way England went this year with the bat but it will be interesting if England are able to continue in this fashion. For Example When India were in Australia 2014/15, they were battered by Australia & Smith. All Indian bowlers went at over 4 an over, then when we look at 2018 and 2021, India had definite plans against all the Aussie batters and chocked the runs and got them to make mistakes. I am sure all the teams around the world will have plans for England the next time they play them in Tests. It will be interesting if Pakistan and Babar can do that as well.

It does not matter how you play but you need to make sure that you are dictating the terms when playing at home. When you let the opposition dictate terms you lose and that is what happened for Pakistan against Australia & England. At home the pitches and the team need to have that aura which Pakistan did not have. For example when teams go to Australia, they know that it will be difficult to beat them, no matter how they play. The pitches are going to favour the home team and their bowlers will make sure it stays that way. That's when you build that fortress. Despite losing to India twice in the last 5 years, the Aussies haven't lost that aura at home. If Pakistan need to build that they don't need to follow England's method, they need to develop their own plans to succeed at home. A team first need to be winning regularly at home before they can start winning abroad. If you can't win at home you have no chance of doing it overseas.
 
Feels like a few things need to happen for us to improve our cricket
1) have more test cricket
2) more A team tours
3) separate teams for separate format
4) separate coaching staff for separate formats
5) and finally, identifying right talent for the right format at an early age.

It gives more time for players to adjust to their respective formats, provides them more experience, and improves their chances of succeeding in international cricket.

I don’t care of those test matches or a team tours are being arranged against Ireland, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Just give them the game time, right resources and correct platform. The rest will take care of itself.
 
Mamoon said:
Captaincy only makes a difference when you have quality players. England have amazing attacking players. They are simply being made to play a style of cricket that suits their strengths.

Pakistan lacks quality. No captain can come in & adopt a playing style that would bring the best out of them because they are useless. They cannot attack or defend. It is one of the most clueless lot of players Pakistan has ever had.

You give this Pakistan team to Stokes & he will be left scratching his head. Pakistan is a hopeless case. If people want Babar sacked for the sake of it that is fine, but don’t expect a turnaround as long as the same bunch of players are playing.
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But the point is, you said the exact same thing about England. You said that their batting lineup was rubbish, that Root was their best player so had to remain captain and that changing it to a quitter like Stokes who was about to retire from cricket/ on his last legs would make things worse. Not only did it improve but it went from 9/10 losses to 9/10 wins. And in the earlier part of the summer you attributed it to Bairstow's purple patch and playing at home - thats been debunked too.

You can't now in hindsight say that England have 'amazing attacking players' so the captaincy change made a huge difference but it won't with pakistan, when you didn't even believe it for England.

My point is different - having a good leader can make a significant difference to the results. This is certainly true for Pakistan as Babar is as poor a captain as Joe Root was.
 
giri26 said:
It will be interesting to see how Pakistan go from here. I think all teams were little surprised by the way England went this year with the bat but it will be interesting if England are able to continue in this fashion. For Example When India were in Australia 2014/15, they were battered by Australia & Smith. All Indian bowlers went at over 4 an over, then when we look at 2018 and 2021, India had definite plans against all the Aussie batters and chocked the runs and got them to make mistakes. I am sure all the teams around the world will have plans for England the next time they play them in Tests. It will be interesting if Pakistan and Babar can do that as well.

It does not matter how you play but you need to make sure that you are dictating the terms when playing at home. When you let the opposition dictate terms you lose and that is what happened for Pakistan against Australia & England. At home the pitches and the team need to have that aura which Pakistan did not have. For example when teams go to Australia, they know that it will be difficult to beat them, no matter how they play. The pitches are going to favour the home team and their bowlers will make sure it stays that way. That's when you build that fortress. Despite losing to India twice in the last 5 years, the Aussies haven't lost that aura at home. If Pakistan need to build that they don't need to follow England's method, they need to develop their own plans to succeed at home. A team first need to be winning regularly at home before they can start winning abroad. If you can't win at home you have no chance of doing it overseas.
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Pakistan blundered by assuming that dry pitches which will aid reverse swing, low bounce, slow spin will be enough for Western teams. The Western teams can easily deal with spin in such conditions unless they are faced with fast turning pitches with bounce in India. Pakistan should have produced green tracks that they usually do in their domestic cricket to give their pacers a chance even if it meant difficult batting conditions.

The pitches we produced against Sri Lanka in 2019, Bangladesh in 2020 and South Africa in 2021 were perfect where they bought our pacers into play.
 
Angrez Pakistani said:
Feels like a few things need to happen for us to improve our cricket
1) have more test cricket
2) more A team tours
3) separate teams for separate format
4) separate coaching staff for separate formats
5) and finally, identifying right talent for the right format at an early age.

It gives more time for players to adjust to their respective formats, provides them more experience, and improves their chances of succeeding in international cricket.

I don’t care of those test matches or a team tours are being arranged against Ireland, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Just give them the game time, right resources and correct platform. The rest will take care of itself.
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Just to add, I think we should have seperate selectors for the test and ODI format.
 
Angrez Pakistani said:
Feels like a few things need to happen for us to improve our cricket
1) have more test cricket
2) more A team tours
3) separate teams for separate format
4) separate coaching staff for separate formats
5) and finally, identifying right talent for the right format at an early age.

It gives more time for players to adjust to their respective formats, provides them more experience, and improves their chances of succeeding in international cricket.

I don’t care of those test matches or a team tours are being arranged against Ireland, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Just give them the game time, right resources and correct platform. The rest will take care of itself.
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Forum363 said:
But the point is, you said the exact same thing about England. You said that their batting lineup was rubbish, that Root was their best player so had to remain captain and that changing it to a quitter like Stokes who was about to retire from cricket/ on his last legs would make things worse. Not only did it improve but it went from 9/10 losses to 9/10 wins. And in the earlier part of the summer you attributed it to Bairstow's purple patch and playing at home - thats been debunked too.

You can't now in hindsight say that England have 'amazing attacking players' so the captaincy change made a huge difference but it won't with pakistan, when you didn't even believe it for England.

My point is different - having a good leader can make a significant difference to the results. This is certainly true for Pakistan as Babar is as poor a captain as Joe Root was.
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If Stokes was captaining this Pakistani team at present, he would maximize the utility of most players, they would definitely be playing with more purpose, confidence. Faheem Ashraf would definitely not be bowling one over in the test match.

You can only imagine what Babar the captain would do if he was leading the present England team. Rehan would not even make his debut.
 
Savak said:
Just to add, I think we should have seperate selectors for the test and ODI format.
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I’d just be happy with one selection committee as long as it has at least competent statistician who can dissect numbers in a way a traditional selector may not. I would also appreciate if these selectors are provided a good set of data, such as how many players have scored their runs without getting more chances through drop catches and misfields and how many bowlers could have taken more wickets if the fielding mishaps didn’t happen. Things like that can make their final decisions a lot more well rounded.
 
Mamoon said:
^ Also sack the PowerPoint selector. Pakistan needs to stop being funky with selections & go back to basics, pick the best performing seasoned FC players.

There is already zero talent in the country & you are only making things worse by selecting hyped up players who are not mentally or physically ready for the long format.
Click to expand...

Mamoon logic 101 - there is “zero talent in the country” so changing the captain makes no sense. But sack the selectors who will replace one zero talent with another.

I agree wasim should be sacked but that’s because I also believe there are better alternatives. According to your logic it will make no sense to change the chief selector as he can’t do anything about the “zero talent in the country”

Have I said “zero talent” enough times yet.
 
Forum363 said:
But the point is, you said the exact same thing about England. You said that their batting lineup was rubbish, that Root was their best player so had to remain captain and that changing it to a quitter like Stokes who was about to retire from cricket/ on his last legs would make things worse. Not only did it improve but it went from 9/10 losses to 9/10 wins. And in the earlier part of the summer you attributed it to Bairstow's purple patch and playing at home - thats been debunked too.

You can't now in hindsight say that England have 'amazing attacking players' so the captaincy change made a huge difference but it won't with pakistan, when you didn't even believe it for England.

My point is different - having a good leader can make a significant difference to the results. This is certainly true for Pakistan as Babar is as poor a captain as Joe Root was.
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Exactly my point earlier in the thread. And a slight correction. Babar is not as poor as Root, he’s even worse.
 
pakistans tactics this series have been abysmal

they have relied on spin but either not picked the correct spinners or just made docile slow wkts which england have found easy to play

what did they expect england to gift them wkts and pakistn to just sleep walk a series win?

the multan test turned the most and thats where they shouldve come back into it but the batting blew it

the tactics selection and cptaincy have been shambolic by pakistan this series
 
Zaz said:
pakistans tactics this series have been abysmal

they have relied on spin but either not picked the correct spinners or just made docile slow wkts which england have found easy to play

what did they expect england to gift them wkts and pakistn to just sleep walk a series win?

the multan test turned the most and thats where they shouldve come back into it but the batting blew it

the tactics selection and cptaincy have been shambolic by pakistan this series
Click to expand...

Tbh even the turn in the Multan test was slow and English batters were able to adapt eventually. I have never ever seen a fast turning, pacy, bouncy spinning mindfield in my life in Pakistan as you routinely see in India, Bangladesh or occasionally in Sri Lanka, these are the sort of pitches that the players from Australia, England, New Zealand, South Africa dread and struggle badly against but they are very much comfortable and at home if the pitch is flat, slow, low bounce with low slow spin.

Pakistan in contrast historically have always done well whenever they have played with a touch of grass, decent bounce, pace on the wicket because this has kept their 3-4 fast bowlers, medium pace all rounders in play and we saw this in 2019 against Sri Lanka, 2020 against Bangladesh and 2021 against South Africa where we saw the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Abbas, Hassan Ali and even Faheem look effective and they picked up loads of wickets. Pakistani wickets do not aid spin that much and at best they will pick up the odd wickets here and there but you will not expect spinners to run through sides.

If Pakistan wants to have an identity at home and play its best cricket they have to prepare green wickets at home to make their pacers effective and when you have the ability to pick up 20 wickets you will challenge any side in the world.
 
🤣 the only head that rolled is the PCB chairman’s!!! Until Pakistan races horses for courses, such results will be regular.
 
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