TheNeutralist
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2013
- Runs
- 334
Most of the England team was sick before this match but they still play well and win!
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Management, strategy and approach make a difference Look at England - same team as last year, different leadership, different results.
There is a reason why Pakistan has been mediocre throughout its history except for a few years here & there.
To be honest our Test team is really weak and this series against England will most likely be another wake-up call for fans.
From the top, to the selectors to the coaching staff - changes are needed.
The priority seems to be T20Is and the PSL resulting in Test cricket being an afterthought.
I will take that mediocrity, still the 4th best W/L ratio in Test cricket's history.
If Pakistan have been mediocre throughout history, India, West Indies, Sri Lanka and New Zealand have been more mediocre.
We need to accept we have limited resources. Yes, we can chop and change (and we should given this defeat) but the truth is that England are a much better side with much better players. The likes of Malan, Potts, Buttler, Moeen Ali etc would walk into most international teams but there is no room for them in this team. That needs to be accepted first and foremost.
Different results because the players had potential & the different strategy was able to exploit that potential.
England have an embarrassment of riches when it comes aggressive-minded batsman. What they lack are classical, orthodox Test batsman.
Apart from Root & maybe Pope, they don’t have anyone right now who can play 250 balls in a Test innings but they have planet of batsmen who can score a 70 or an 80 in 100 balls.
This Bazball stuff was implemented out of necessity because England was going nowhere with their traditional approach. They just didn’t have the batsmen with that discipline & powers of concentration.
Bairstow was struggling to bat in Tests but as soon as McCullum & Stokes liberated hun & asked him to bat in Tests the way he does in ODIs, he started scoring for fun.
The deliveries that he was getting out to by poking outside the off stump or by getting bowled while playing tentative defensive shots were getting dispatched to the boundary because he no longer had any obligation to occupy the crease & see off the bowlers.
Jos Buttler has struggled a lot in Tests over the last year or so but if you bring him into the side now, he will turn into the demon that we see in ODI & T20 cricket.
Harry Brook averages mid 30s in County but he scored 240 runs at a SR of 130+ in a Test match. If not for Bazball, he would be averaging mid 30s in Test cricket too.
My point is that leadership makes a difference but only when you have good enough players to execute what you are trying to do.
There are hundreds of batsmen in County cricket who will fail to implement Bazball strategy because they don’t have the talent & skill to play such shots.
Someone like Cook, who is an England legend & still probably the best orthodox opener in County would be a resounding failure if he tries to play Bazball.
No leadership can turn average players into quality players. You cannot polish a **** but you can point good players in the right direction.
England’s transformation since the last summer is not because McCullum & Stokes have a magic wand who enhanced the talent & skill level of average players.
They transformed because the previous management was making these players play a style of cricket that was not their strength.
One can imagine the results if players like Azhar Ali, Masood, Fawad Alam etc. try their hands on Bazball. It just wouldn’t work.
I look at the current Pakistan team & I don’t see any genuine talent & the skill level seems very low. Apart from Babar, I don’t see any batsman with genuine world class potential. Maybe Babar would benefit from a top coach, but the others not so much.
The most basic, fundamental requirement of building a quality team is having quality players. You cannot substitute that with great leadership.
Great leadership will maximize the quality of the players & set them up for success. Similarly, bad leadership will minimize the quality of the players & set them up for failure.
But great leadership cannot make average players great. It never has & never will.
Babar might be a bad captain, Saqlain & Yousuf might be bad coaches, but Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the captaincy & the coaches but the fact that the pool of players is very average & I don’t see this set of players excelling under any leadership.
I completely agree with you, but I still think Mamoon’s point about the quality of players is worth discussion, because England was grossly underperforming under Root and Silverwood in terms of the talent at their disposal due to terrible tactical decisions, a miserable & tense dressing room and a complete loss of confidence.
Whereas it’s unclear if Pakistan’s talent pool is underperforming as much as England’s was, or, if they are actually delivering not far off the level that they are truly at.
Series loss to England in such a manner is not acceptable.
Babar needs to be sacked as captain
Saqi, moyo, mo wasim, rameez as well
Rizwan, Agha, Nawaz, zahid, Azhar, Shan, M Ali all need to be removed from squad as well.
How much do we want heads to roll? Anymore of that and the players and staff will just lose their heads!
Shameful 3-0 defeat coming up.
Saqlain contract is ending in February anyways and the NZ series will be his last assignment.
Crazy how the coaches are getting all the blame, it’s not their fault that they have a mediocre team to manage.
They dont deserve a single game. This is a gigantic disgrace.Yousaf was the worst test captain we had , and a negative influence. Babar and saqi are just as bad.But this won't happen, especially since the series against NZ is coming shortly. So after the defeat to Aus and England,if by chance Pakistan does well against NZ then it will be regarded as sign of improvement and everyone keeps his job.
For the sake of our Cricket, please resign all three.
Lol weaker teams have won. No sane coach would pick zahid mehmood and faheem ashraf as front line bowlers on these pitches. You ok ?
Faheem Ashraf was our best pace bowling all rounder in the test format, he was dropped after being injured. Let’s not judge him by his LOI stats. Also, Saqi isn’t the CS…it’s not his fault that Abbas and Hassan Ali aren’t being picked.
Let’s be honest, if Zahid didn’t debut we’d all be crying “oh what’s the point of picking him in the squad if he’s not going to play” , “oh these pitches are suited to him”. All this Zahid Manmood selection nonsense is coming after the first test.
Faheem Ashraf was our best pace bowling all rounder in the test format, he was dropped after being injured. Let’s not judge him by his LOI stats. Also, Saqi isn’t the CS…it’s not his fault that Abbas and Hassan Ali aren’t being picked.
Let’s be honest, if Zahid didn’t debut we’d all be crying “oh what’s the point of picking him in the squad if he’s not going to play” , “oh these pitches are suited to him”. All this Zahid Manmood selection nonsense is coming after the first test.
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.
Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.
Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.
Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.
Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
And these jokers would have been shot out for 50-sub scores if there was a hint of grass on the wicket.The tam is unwatchable right now. Someone who has the guts to ask for hood wickets with a bit of grass would do.
And these jokers would have been shot out for 50-sub scores if there was a hint of grass on the wicket.
It’s a really bad team, there is no quality in there and no potential either. Babar alone is the only decent batter, everyone else is a joke.
What was this team thinking going to a restaurant to eat dinner with horrendous performances recently?
Babar a decent batsman? Just revisit the manner of his dismissals in this series, that too on home conditions.
Make them eat Cheese Sandwich until the next tour starts that's what they deserve.
England have taken that out of the equation too with their own chef
The following will be looking over their shoulder at the moment and won't be sleeping easily:
Chairman
Chief Selector
Head Coach
Other coaching staff
Captain
Make them eat Cheese Sandwich until the next tour starts that's what they deserve.
The best performers from FC cricket are playing in this team. I have commented before the FC cricketers are an absolute joke and mentally very weak to be able to succeed at international level. Just looking at them play will show you all you need to know.What will change?.
Select the best performing players at domestic level. Stop being cowards by having autobahns as pitches only to be humiliated because the batsmen have less mental fortitude than their limited talent.
You can mask the lack of talent with fight. This group under their cowardly captains and management has neither.
First of all, thanks to Allah.
The following will be looking over their shoulder at the moment and won't be sleeping easily:
Chairman
Chief Selector
Head Coach
Other coaching staff
Captain
Khajoor or roti that's sunnat e Rasool (SAW)
Sack: Saqlain, Yousuf & Tait.
Drop: Masood, Rizwan, Zahid, Wasim, Faheem, Naseem & Rauf.
Babar is a clueless captain but there are no alternatives right now.
You said the same thing about Joe Root when he lost 9 out of 10 tests in a row. And look what a difference the leadership change made.
Now, pakistan doesn't have anyone of the quality of Stokes, but at least you can now realise how significant a change in captaincy can be.
Captaincy only makes a difference when you have quality players. England have amazing attacking players. They are simply being made to play a style of cricket that suits their strengths.
Pakistan lacks quality. No captain can come in & adopt a playing style that would bring the best out of them because they are useless. They cannot attack or defend. It is one of the most clueless lot of players Pakistan has ever had.
You give this Pakistan team to Stokes & he will be left scratching his head. Pakistan is a hopeless case. If people want Babar sacked for the sake of it that is fine, but don’t expect a turnaround as long as the same bunch of players are playing.
It will be interesting to see how Pakistan go from here. I think all teams were little surprised by the way England went this year with the bat but it will be interesting if England are able to continue in this fashion. For Example When India were in Australia 2014/15, they were battered by Australia & Smith. All Indian bowlers went at over 4 an over, then when we look at 2018 and 2021, India had definite plans against all the Aussie batters and chocked the runs and got them to make mistakes. I am sure all the teams around the world will have plans for England the next time they play them in Tests. It will be interesting if Pakistan and Babar can do that as well.
It does not matter how you play but you need to make sure that you are dictating the terms when playing at home. When you let the opposition dictate terms you lose and that is what happened for Pakistan against Australia & England. At home the pitches and the team need to have that aura which Pakistan did not have. For example when teams go to Australia, they know that it will be difficult to beat them, no matter how they play. The pitches are going to favour the home team and their bowlers will make sure it stays that way. That's when you build that fortress. Despite losing to India twice in the last 5 years, the Aussies haven't lost that aura at home. If Pakistan need to build that they don't need to follow England's method, they need to develop their own plans to succeed at home. A team first need to be winning regularly at home before they can start winning abroad. If you can't win at home you have no chance of doing it overseas.
Feels like a few things need to happen for us to improve our cricket
1) have more test cricket
2) more A team tours
3) separate teams for separate format
4) separate coaching staff for separate formats
5) and finally, identifying right talent for the right format at an early age.
It gives more time for players to adjust to their respective formats, provides them more experience, and improves their chances of succeeding in international cricket.
I don’t care of those test matches or a team tours are being arranged against Ireland, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Just give them the game time, right resources and correct platform. The rest will take care of itself.
Feels like a few things need to happen for us to improve our cricket
1) have more test cricket
2) more A team tours
3) separate teams for separate format
4) separate coaching staff for separate formats
5) and finally, identifying right talent for the right format at an early age.
It gives more time for players to adjust to their respective formats, provides them more experience, and improves their chances of succeeding in international cricket.
I don’t care of those test matches or a team tours are being arranged against Ireland, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Just give them the game time, right resources and correct platform. The rest will take care of itself.
But the point is, you said the exact same thing about England. You said that their batting lineup was rubbish, that Root was their best player so had to remain captain and that changing it to a quitter like Stokes who was about to retire from cricket/ on his last legs would make things worse. Not only did it improve but it went from 9/10 losses to 9/10 wins. And in the earlier part of the summer you attributed it to Bairstow's purple patch and playing at home - thats been debunked too.
You can't now in hindsight say that England have 'amazing attacking players' so the captaincy change made a huge difference but it won't with pakistan, when you didn't even believe it for England.
My point is different - having a good leader can make a significant difference to the results. This is certainly true for Pakistan as Babar is as poor a captain as Joe Root was.
Just to add, I think we should have seperate selectors for the test and ODI format.
Just to add, I think we should have seperate selectors for the test and ODI format.
^ Also sack the PowerPoint selector. Pakistan needs to stop being funky with selections & go back to basics, pick the best performing seasoned FC players.
There is already zero talent in the country & you are only making things worse by selecting hyped up players who are not mentally or physically ready for the long format.
But the point is, you said the exact same thing about England. You said that their batting lineup was rubbish, that Root was their best player so had to remain captain and that changing it to a quitter like Stokes who was about to retire from cricket/ on his last legs would make things worse. Not only did it improve but it went from 9/10 losses to 9/10 wins. And in the earlier part of the summer you attributed it to Bairstow's purple patch and playing at home - thats been debunked too.
You can't now in hindsight say that England have 'amazing attacking players' so the captaincy change made a huge difference but it won't with pakistan, when you didn't even believe it for England.
My point is different - having a good leader can make a significant difference to the results. This is certainly true for Pakistan as Babar is as poor a captain as Joe Root was.
pakistans tactics this series have been abysmal
they have relied on spin but either not picked the correct spinners or just made docile slow wkts which england have found easy to play
what did they expect england to gift them wkts and pakistn to just sleep walk a series win?
the multan test turned the most and thats where they shouldve come back into it but the batting blew it
the tactics selection and cptaincy have been shambolic by pakistan this series