England (183/7) beat Pakistan (160) by 23 runs in the 2nd T20I to go up 1-0 in the 4-match T20I series

[Wasim Ghulam]

this team is full of jokers who are non serious about international cricket. Saim Ayub , Azam khan , Shadab khan and Iftikhar ahmed.. you got 4 passengers in batting line up that totally relies on Babar , Rizwan and Fakhar to score. any 2 of these fail , we struggle to cross 150…i bet Pakistan is the only big team that has been getting all out inside 20 overs the most in last 2 years.. but our clowm captain refuses to learn. this team has no passion and right now plays with no purpose. a docile bunch

 

[Doc77]

Babar and co. are an embarrassment. Please please spare us from Shadab. At best he is a county-level player but not fit for international cricket. He has been given more chances than any other player.

Azam is not fit for international cricket and Amir is over-hyped. Get some proper cricketers in the team who can flourish into match winners and get rid of these jokers.

 

[Rana]

Babar and co. are an embarrassment. Please please spare us from Shadab. At best he is a county-level player but not fit for international cricket. He has been given more chances than any other

Forget county level..

I am convinced that even if he plays club level T20 cricket at the moment, he will concede 40-50 runs in 4 overs picking up 1 or 2 wickets max

He’s a below average leg spinner

 

[PakWC'11Champs]

Important to take the information in these games and add some logic to the next game, or moving forward with the right adjustments.

Perhaps: Subbing out Saim and Shadab. Bringing in Naseem and Usman Khan.

Rauf, Naseem, Shaheen, Amir, Imad, Ifti, Azam, Fakhar, Rizwan, Babar, Usman.

Find the right order between Fakhar/Rizwan/Babar/Usman.

4 quicks + Imad and give Ifti an over here or there to change up from the pace attack.

We need to accept our spin bowling is not going to get it done. Find the right way to utilize Rauf, Shaheen, Naseem and Amir in 20 overs.

 

[daytrader]

What agenda? I ask again.

Your agenda to bash Babar and Rizwan plus Shadab at every opportunity. This is a clear agenda, no need to deny.

Did you claim shadab is our best allrounder? Yes or no? To which I responded.

He is and he's proven it many times. Yea currently he's out of form but he too is a big match player. There's no doubt in my mind that Star boy is blessed in all three facets of the game. Add his game awareness to the list and no one from Pak comes close to the utility he can provide.

What did you mean when you claimed the words " No matter what I say Babar will finish as the greatest pakistani batsmen of all time"

^^ Again what is the context? Are you claiming he's objectively the best or statistically?

Objectively, statistically, rankings and accolades from other cricketers. No matter what criteria you use, Babar Sher is simply world class.

As for t20, I included the t20 2022 t20 world cup and the world cup 2023 as their recent tournaments but sure let's include 2021.

Again I ask, What is the discussion? What's the premise you wish to convey? Are we talking about babar's performance in 2021? The team performance? What exactly?

The discussion was simply about how you're having a field day with Pak losing but you started rambling again. Comparing an ODI world cup to a T20 one. Like bro, Babar and Riz don't even open in ODIs so what's exactly are you comparing.

I guess you keep forgetting what we're discussing.

As for bias, Again what does that mean? What do you consider biased? I consider you biased when you claim The words and I quote " for me Misbah is a legend"

^^ Key words you verbatim said for me.

Them I consider you biased when you use the words babar sher, the informality itself entails a clear bias.

Do you consider me biased for supporting sarfi era which fakhar, imad are the major benefactors?

Again you gotta be more clear fam.

Lol bias is not a big word fam. I thought you would understand it but clearly you don't.

Misbah is a legend, you stating otherwise doesn't change the fact. This is not my bias but a reality that you have difficulty coping with.

Finally it's not just Australia, I'll happily support Nepal team over Pakistan, I don't choose top teams for the sake of winning. I hate Pakistan due to political factors not due to it being a subpar unit.

This is quite understandable. Many from the overseas diaspora has been disenfranchised due to the contemporary political situation in Pakistan. I too don't have the same passion anymore for all things Pakistani except for cricket. These next few years might be the last of competitive teams from Pakistan so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[BouncerGuy]

One thing is known, Fakhar is having a blast of a time at number 4 spot, you are not going to win many games until Babar and RIzwan Click.

Saim is a proven hack ( league bully only)

Azam Khan is still the same as we know.

Shadab khan has been pretty mediocre. Should be replaced with abrar.

 

[RidiculousMan]

100% clueless from an experienced campaigner.whilst shadab was the main issue why we didn't win but Iftikhar should be also at fault.

It frustrates me because the issue is not the skill. Pakistan were in the game. They only lost because mentally they are inferior to English players. They lack brains

 

[mominsaigol]

Your agenda to bash Babar and Rizwan plus Shadab at every opportunity. This is a clear agenda, no need to deny.



He is and he's proven it many times. Yea currently he's out of form but he too is a big match player. There's no doubt in my mind that Star boy is blessed in all three facets of the game. Add his game awareness to the list and no one from Pak comes close to the utility he can provide.



Objectively, statistically, rankings and accolades from other cricketers. No matter what criteria you use, Babar Sher is simply world class.



The discussion was simply about how you're having a field day with Pak losing but you started rambling again. Comparing an ODI world cup to a T20 one. Like bro, Babar and Riz don't even open in ODIs so what's exactly are you comparing.

I guess you keep forgetting what we're discussing.



Lol bias is not a big word fam. I thought you would understand it but clearly you don't.

Misbah is a legend, you stating otherwise doesn't change the fact. This is not my bias but a reality that you have difficulty coping with.



This is quite understandable. Many from the overseas diaspora has been disenfranchised due to the contemporary political situation in Pakistan. I too don't have the same passion anymore for all things Pakistani except for cricket. These next few years might be the last of competitive teams from Pakistan so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

1) Oh that, you're calling that an agenda, okay then I agree, but I bash then rightfully so, don't act like I'm the only one on PP doing so.

2) Hahahahahahahahahaha, first of nothing you claimed is a valid argument, the argument of I think he's blessed therefore he is isn't a valid argument. As for shadab, what basis are you claiming he is? Dude has played 70 odi's and 99 T20's and has frequently been promoted by the order numerous amounts of times sometimes at 4, and no 5 has been his position for a while now, even in odi he's come frequently at 5 and 6 amd yet has like 1 50 on t20? And 4 in odi? In that many games?

Umar akmal has a better record them this, infact shadab statistically is the worst no 5 to ever represent Pakistan In t20 and has statistically been the worst spin bowler in any tournament for Pakistan. That's not out of form, thats a sign of a pathetic player, and you'd realise that if you had any god damn clue on how the game functions considering shadab has zero footwork amd holds the bat with a bottom hand 24/7, meaning he can only slice or loft, often times edging his slice and lofts to the fielders.

3) By this logic Imam ul haq is superior to Inzimam ul Haq because Imam averages higher and has a higher SR? Rizwan is better then 99% of batsmen in Pakistan history? Babar Sher got bowled out by saqlain myshtaq in the nets? At 44? Dude can't play spin, and again you're arguing from belief, the whole I think he's world class therefore he is isn't an argument. World class means the planet, do you seriously think he compares to quinton, butler, Travis head and various other top order batters who play 1 to 3 in the very same era.

Heck do you seriously think he's superior to onsong fakhar or superior to saeed anwar who was basically a consistent version of fakhar zaman and just way more technically sound? I've seen saeed anwar bat in highlights and full matches of past games, he has no technical weakness while Babar has zero back foot play against spin besides a pull shot?

4) Again another argument from belief the whole I'm claiming Misbah is a legend who therefore he is and you'll accept this as a fact, again this isn't an argument, an argument is substantiated with evidence logic and proof. You've never provided any. The ones you've provided that dismissed by actual statements and records on paper.

5) So that's what you want? For Pakistan cricket to die as long as Bobby gets to play till retirement and misbah is at the helm?

Another field day is coming up in the 3rd or 4th t20 depending on which is a wash out and what not.

Gonna make you suffer again

 

[FearlessRoar]

On his You Tube channel, The former chairman of PCB Ramiz Raja said that England is a complete team as they have power-hitters till number 8 and also have a very good lineup which would make it difficult to win against them:

“Playing against England here will be not easy in terms of a win as they have gunslingers from number 1 to 7-8 position. They also have an all-round strength in bowling. They have two good spinners, in pace they have Jofra Archer, and Chris Jordan."

“Pakistan can no longer play with [the mindset of] 160 runs, they have to score 180 or more because the pitch was simple and in this [modern age], you can easily score 180 without taking much risk.”

 

[Rana]

On his You Tube channel, The former chairman of PCB Ramiz Raja said that England is a complete team as they have power-hitters till number 8 and also have a very good lineup which would make it difficult to win against them:

“Playing against England here will be not easy in terms of a win as they have gunslingers from number 1 to 7-8 position. They also have an all-round strength in bowling. They have two good spinners, in pace they have Jofra Archer, and Chris Jordan."

“Pakistan can no longer play with [the mindset of] 160 runs, they have to score 180 or more because the pitch was simple and in this [modern age], you can easily score 180 without taking much risk.”

Funny how the guy who empowered Babar and Rizwan is now crying about how we have to change our mindset


Typical chawwal Ramiz Raja

 

[Mamoon]

There's a reason why @Mamoon was desperate for them to be kept out of the team.

Pakistan made the World Cup final last time around with them, so unless they do one better this time which would mean winning the World Cup, then bringing them back would be a waste of time because of this group of players under Babar have already proved that they can stumble their way into a T20 World Cup Final.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan competed well throughout the match . A couple of improvements in selection & some good fortune will see them compete in the T20 World Cup. If you believe in the project & keep improving , you’ll win series & tournaments. @Mamoon . How many ICC tournaments will Pakistan win this decade ?

Thanks for the tag but as I have said, I refuse to watch any Pakistan cricket matches as long as Amir and Imad are part of the squad.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan made the World Cup final last time around with them, so unless they do one better this time which would mean winning the World Cup, then bringing them back would be a waste of time because of this group of players under Babar have already proved that they can stumble their way into a T20 World Cup Final.

The guy who can’t do the ‘my my my’ Klopp face anymore because it’s against Peshawar Zalmi code of conduct

 

[Mamoon]

The guy who can’t do the ‘my my my’ Klopp face anymore because it’s against Peshawar Zalmi code of conduct

I would do that when I will start watching and caring again.

 

[Rana]

I would do that when I will start watching and caring again.

Of course you were watching. I’m sure you watched Shadab’s poor show and will be tearing into him on those threads. Im sure you watched Amir getting hit for a 4 and six by number 10 Archer, and you will tell us he is washed up.

You watched what you wanted, you will turn a blind eye to what didn’t go for you.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Pakistan made the World Cup final last time around with them, so unless they do one better this time which would mean winning the World Cup, then bringing them back would be a waste of time because of this group of players under Babar have already proved that they can stumble their way into a T20 World Cup Final.

So you’d play the same XI from the final of the previous WT20?

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

I have said it a million times get Salman Ali in.

Shadab is out of form and needs time out.

The management have yet again cocked up by leaving him out of the WC squad.

 

[Mamoon]

Of course you were watching. I’m sure you watched Shadab’s poor show and will be tearing into him on those threads. Im sure you watched Amir getting hit for a 4 and six by number 10 Archer, and you will tell us he is washed up.

You watched what you wanted, you will turn a blind eye to what didn’t go for you.

I haven’t watched a ball since the NZ series although I was very tempted to watch the highlights of a NZ D batsman and IPL reject embarrass Amir.

Therefore, I have restricted myself to following the scores on Cricinfo rather than watching any play.

 

[Mamoon]

So you’d play the same XI from the final of the previous WT20?

You should always look to improve things even if you have had a successful tournament, but bringing in a washed up Amir and an average player like Imad doesn’t improve the team in any way.

In addition, the opening partnership was broken up for a hyped up youngster who has been utter rubbish so far.

Pakistan is not going into the 2024 T20 World Cup a better side than they were going into the 2022 T20 World Cup, and if people think that Amir and Imad has elevated them then unless they go one better this time, which inconveniently means winning the World Cup which Pakistan won’t, then their comebacks would be a grand waste of time and nothing more.

 

[mominsaigol]

You should always look to improve things even if you have had a successful tournament, but bringing in a washed up Amir and an average player like Imad doesn’t improve the team in any way.

In addition, the opening partnership was broken up for a hyped up youngster who has been utter rubbish so far.

Pakistan is not going into the 2024 T20 World Cup a better side than they were going into the 2022 T20 World Cup, and if people think that Amir and Imad has elevated them then unless they go one better this time, which inconveniently means winning the World Cup which Pakistan won’t, then their comebacks would be a grand waste of time and nothing more.

This argument will always be weak as no 2 tournaments are ever the same.

2023 NZ is much stronger then 2019 NZ and 2015 NZ. 2019 MZ was being carried by Williamson because the batting lineup was so fragile with one hit wonders.

2023 nz had batting mixed with good bowling but unfortunately got faced with injuries against Pakistan. Regardless,

NZ team didn't qualify to the finals this time around, those that mean rachin ravindra who hit 3 centuries, Mitchell at no 4 who played a good innings against India etc etc did nothing to elevate the team? And NZ is nowhere in terms of progress?

It's not a simple equation that you're making it out to be nor will it ever be.

It Ignores other teams having different squads and getting stronger, it Ignores different tournament formats, different venues, weather conditions etc etc etc. And no you claiming its an excuse doesn't make it one as your opinion holds no bearings.

Again please don't take offence to what I said but it's the truth, variables are completly different with each passing tournament.

2022 wc variables had a shortened tournament where to qualify for semi's you just had to be top 2 in group where Zimbabwe, Nedtherlands, bamgaldesh are minnows so it was always a triple threat match between sa, India and Pakistan. Ontop of which rain affected SA games in a similar manner to rain affected nz game in world cup made a difference. Another rain affected sa vs Zimbabwe game where sa had won, but ewual points awarded because sa was denied one extra over and hence Dr's can't come into play for rules, couples with 1 very good NZ game where Pakistan switched on.

Similar to 2017 where sa vs Pakistan had been rain effected, Sri lanka vs Pakistan had srinlanka botching itand fakhar switched himself on for semi and finals.

2024 has different variables, it has group 8, A much much much stronger England, Australia, Indian etc etc teams in terms of squads, a different venue, and certain factors like rain may or may not come into play.

Your a poster with 100,000 comments, so please make quality posts cause I've seem some of your posts from 2015-2020 and they've all be quality posts.

These simplistic last time Pakistan reached finals so this time they must win doesn't suit your level.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

You should always look to improve things even if you have had a successful tournament, but bringing in a washed up Amir and an average player like Imad doesn’t improve the team in any way.

In addition, the opening partnership was broken up for a hyped up youngster who has been utter rubbish so far.

Pakistan is not going into the 2024 T20 World Cup a better side than they were going into the 2022 T20 World Cup, and if people think that Amir and Imad has elevated them then unless they go one better this time, which inconveniently means winning the World Cup which Pakistan won’t, then their comebacks would be a grand waste of time and nothing more.

Your argument is flawed, the 2022 WT20 squad was trash, they didn’t deserve to be in the final, they relied on Netherlands to beat SA, if that same squad played in 50 more WT20’s, they’d come back with zero trophies and 10 finals.

Shan Masood out, already an improvement.

Khushdil Shah out, another improvement.

Usman Qadir out, improvement.

Haider Ali out, improvement.

Nawaz out, improvement.

Hasnain out, improvement.


Bringing Amir and Imad back into the team hasn’t made us a worse team, we can actually make it to the finals without having to rely on others.

Winning all 4 GS games and still not making it to the finals would be a more successful tournament than embarrassing yourself against minnows and still finding a way into the final.

 

[mominsaigol]

Your argument is flawed, the 2022 WT20 squad was trash, they didn’t deserve to be in the final, they relied on Netherlands to beat SA, if that same squad played in 50 more WT20’s, they’d come back with zero trophies and 10 finals.

Shan Masood out, already an improvement.

Khushdil Shah out, another improvement.

Usman Qadir out, improvement.

Haider Ali out, improvement.

Nawaz out, improvement.

Hasnain out, improvement.


Bringing Amir and Imad back into the team hasn’t made us a worse team, we can actually make it to the finals without having to rely on others.

Winning all 4 GS games and still not making it to the finals would be a more successful tournament than embarrassing yourself against minnows and still finding a way into the final.

His argument sucks because

A) It Ignores teams getting stronger. 2024 Australia is way > 2022 Australia same with other squads like NZ, England etc.

B) Different venue and pitches.

C) Different tournament format.

D) Weather may or may not help this time around.

This is what happens when people like him, daytrader, major etc argue from personal bias rather then making proper informed decisions.

When you stop watching cricket because of imad and Amir, or you call babar a sher and claim he's > Saeed Anwar as a batter or when you get so emotional over misbah departing and claim misbah > Inzimam as a batter ans in the same league of YK as a test batter then theirs no point in arguing, these people are talking from personal bias, not from personal insight

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Chacha shouldn't be in the side, but its this yaari dosti from Babar that keeps him there. Should be asked by someone directly why he keeps getting picked.

Hasn’t won a single game , but keeps selected again and again.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I am interested in the team selection for the next match.

If Shadab is playing, Gary Kisten is another yes man.

Adil , moeen and Imad bowled well in the same pitch were shadooby was belted for 55 run in 4 overs.

 

[mominsaigol]

Adil , moeen and Imad bowled well in the same pitch were shadooby was belted for 55 run in 4 overs.

The pitch was difficult to play with uneven bounce causing the ball to sometimes pitch to high or top low.

Just imagine what'll happen if the pitch is a road? Will shadab get pelted for 100 of 4 overs and make hasan ali's dream a reality?

 

[Mamoon]

Your argument is flawed, the 2022 WT20 squad was trash, they didn’t deserve to be in the final, they relied on Netherlands to beat SA, if that same squad played in 50 more WT20’s, they’d come back with zero trophies and 10 finals.

It doesn't matter if it was trash or not. The bottom-line is that they made the final. No one tied the hands of other teams. No one asked South Africa to lose to Pakistan and Netherlands.

Pakistan is a poor team and poor teams can win tournament matches in knockout situations but they are exposed in bilateral cricket because beating a superior team over the course of a series is very, very hard because the superior talent, skill and mental application will eventually shine through.

Cup formats due to their knockout nature is a heavily flawed format to decide the best team in any sport in any competition but it is the one that carries the most excitement because of the knockout situations and unexpected results.

Pakistan in 2022 and now in 2024 will get smashed by every top team over the course of a series but in tournament situations, it can make an impact.

Pakistan's chances of winning the World Cup in 2024 are no higher or lower than they were in 2022. Pakistan made the final in 2022 and if they don't go all the way this time, people will remember the 2022 team as the more successful won by virtue of their superior outcome in the T20 World Cup.

This argument will always be weak as no 2 tournaments are ever the same.

But no one cares. People only look back and see where their team finished in the end, not what the nature of the format was and what were the conditions. Two of Pakistan's three white ball trophies (1992 World Cup and 2017 CT) may not have happened if the formats were different, but does anyone care today? Absolutely not.

If Pakistan don't make the final this time, people will look back at these two T20 World Cups and see that Pakistan produced a better show in 2022 than 2024. No one would care about the formats and the differences in the two tournaments.

Amir and Imad fans will have a very difficult, if not impossible task of selling the narrative that their comebacks had a positive impact on the results of Pakistan if Pakistan don't do one better this time around.

 

[mominsaigol]

It doesn't matter if it was trash or not. The bottom-line is that they made the final. No one tied the hands of other teams. No one asked South Africa to lose to Pakistan and Netherlands.

Pakistan is a poor team and poor teams can win tournament matches in knockout situations but they are exposed in bilateral cricket because beating a superior team over the course of a series is very, very hard because the superior talent, skill and mental application will eventually shine through.

Cup formats due to their knockout nature is a heavily flawed format to decide the best team in any sport in any competition but it is the one that carries the most excitement because of the knockout situations and unexpected results.

Pakistan in 2022 and now in 2024 will get smashed by every top team over the course of a series but in tournament situations, it can make an impact.

Pakistan's chances of winning the World Cup in 2024 are no higher or lower than they were in 2022. Pakistan made the final in 2022 and if they don't go all the way this time, people will remember the 2022 team as the more successful won by virtue of their superior outcome in the T20 World Cup.

But no one cares. People only look back and see where their team finished in the end, not what the nature of the format was and what were the conditions. Two of Pakistan's three white ball trophies (1992 World Cup and 2017 CT) may not have happened if the formats were different, but does anyone care today? Absolutely not.

If Pakistan don't make the final this time, people will look back at these two T20 World Cups and see that Pakistan produced a better show in 2022 than 2024. No one would care about the formats and the differences in the two tournaments.

Amir and Imad fans will have a very difficult, if not impossible task of selling the narrative that their comebacks had a positive impact on the results of Pakistan if Pakistan don't do one better this time around.

Can you stop shoving Amir and imad onto everyone, do you seriously care about this melodrama?

When did I mention Amir and imad? Why are you bringing up an extra point to strawman me with?

Many factors are different this time around. Azam, Usman Khan and saim ayub are added to the squad and not present in 2022, Meanwhile shan masood, Muhammad haris and nawaz are absent.

Besides Fakhar, Babar, Rizwan, Shadab, Naseem, Rauf and Shaheen everyone is new.

Abaass afridi, Imad, Amir, usman, Saim etc etc. Don't keep shoving Amir and imad into everyone.

I called out why your argument is poor and bringing in a future narrative aka 10 years into the future, 20 years, 100 years etc doesn't mean anything.

No one looks at the finalists either, even if they do no one cares, the winners are what matters and that's it. 20 years into the future, no one is vela enough to look back at 2 tournament scorecards and be like hey those 2 were the finalists hehe.

And finally can you please stop this no one asked, no one did this, no one did that. No one asked you to shove Amir and imad into every sentence into every poster and bring them into every single argument.

Even during the team of the tournament thread you pinged me about Amir and imad again? What relevance does that hold in a team of the tournament thread?

I'm saying your argument is flawed because it Ignores variables and stating well 20 50 years down the line no one will care isn't a counter.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

@Mamoon

2 players aren’t going to win you the WT20, judging their selection based on what we “achieved” in the previous WT20 isn’t fair. Judge them on their individual performances.

If Amir is the leading wicket taker, or Imad is the highest run scorer then how can you say that their selection in the team was a “waste of time” when they played their part?

 

[Aami]

Pak are nearly there...just a few more players/slots to fill in to stand amongst the top 2/3 teams...this line up should do it.

Riz
Babar
Fakhar
..........
..........
..........
..........
Afridi
Shah
Wasim
Abrar

 

[shamaan]

It frustrates me because the issue is not the skill. Pakistan were in the game. They only lost because mentally they are inferior to English players. They lack brains

I agree they lost becouse they don't have brain cells.

 

[Ali T]

Before Chacha we need to get rid of some other passengers. Saim, Azam, Shadab and Rauf.

Dont know if I agree with Saim's drop but the rest make sense to me.

 

[cricketmania22]

Dont know if I agree with Saim's drop but the rest make sense to me.

At those point Saim is under so much pressure that I don’t think we can get the best of him. He should be kept in the mix but should be dropped for now.

 

[Ali T]

Archer after nearly 400 days back into cricket and bowling at 89-92mph.

That's what happens when you have a board that has the sense to provide you with proper treatment and care!

 

[Ali T]

At those point Saim is under so much pressure that I don’t think we can get the best of him. He should be kept in the mix but should be dropped for now.

True good point. With extra pressure during the WC he might struggle to perform.
But at the same time if you drop him, he'll loose confidence.
Handling him will be a tough call.