England v India | 3rd ODI | August 30, 2014 | Trent Bridge

[Justcrazy]

Tredwell to Jadeja, 5 runs

 

[Justcrazy]

India one hit away from win !!!

 

[Justcrazy]

Just 2 required

 

[Sandeep]

Rayudu was awesome.. Never actually seen him bat. He adds a whole new dimension batting like this at number 4 literally holding the top and lower middle orders together!

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Why not?

Giving 350 in a green Joberg track doesn't count?

SA 3 matches. NZ 5 matches. Eng 2 matches.

The ball was swinging early.

We better address this issue.

Your points are valid but the same pacers picked up their game in CT didn't they. Moreover the pitches in ICC tournaments are hardly reflective of the host nations usual conditions. They're usually flat. What we need to settle on is 2 reliable openers and a fixed no. 4

Also it would be great if Irfan gets into groove, he could be a handy no.7

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Your points are valid but the same pacers picked up their game in CT didn't they. Moreover the pitches in ICC tournaments are hardly reflective of the host nations usual conditions. They're usually flat. What we need to settle on is 2 reliable openers and a fixed no. 4

Also it would be great if Irfan gets into groove, he could be a handy no.7

They did but there is a crucial difference. In CT, the pitches helped our spinners too which helped us execute the spin choke.

Such things didn't happen in SA or NZ ODIs where our spinners were only able to somewhat contain but not get wickets and the result is there for all to see.

Also in the CT final, our spinners played a major major role in winning it. Even Raina chipped in with a few overs cos our pacers went for runs.

Spinners won't get such purchase in Aus.

If you see our stats of our bowlers in the last 12 months, it would be very clear that if our spin doesn't click, we are gone. Its that bad.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Irfan is finished dude.

Last IPL he neither bowled well nor batted well and his bowling speed was slow as hell.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

They did but there is a crucial difference. In CT, the pitches helped our spinners too which helped us execute the spin choke.

Such things didn't happen in SA or NZ ODIs where our spinners were only able to somewhat contain but not get wickets and the result is there for all to see.

Also in the CT final, our spinners played a major major role in winning it. Even Raina chipped in with a few overs cos our pacers went for runs.

Spinners won't get such purchase in Aus.

If you see our stats of our bowlers in the last 12 months, it would be very clear that if our spin doesn't click, we are gone. Its that bad.

You're giving undue importance to SA, NZ results. Look at India's batting in 2002 NZ series and our performance in 2003 world cup.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Irfan is finished dude.

Last IPL he neither bowled well nor batted well and his bowling speed was slow as hell.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

They did but there is a crucial difference. In CT, the pitches helped our spinners too which helped us execute the spin choke.

Such things didn't happen in SA or NZ ODIs where our spinners were only able to somewhat contain but not get wickets and the result is there for all to see.

Also in the CT final, our spinners played a major major role in winning it. Even Raina chipped in with a few overs cos our pacers went for runs.

Spinners won't get such purchase in Aus.

If you see our stats of our bowlers in the last 12 months, it would be very clear that if our spin doesn't click, we are gone. Its that bad.

You're giving undue importance to SA, NZ results. Look at India's batting in 2002 NZ series and our performance in 2003 world cup.

Im not saying all will be well with our bowling but I don't think it's going to be an important factor. Batting has to click if we're to have shot at defending it successfully.

 

[Saurav]

Irfan is finished dude.

Last IPL he neither bowled well nor batted well and his bowling speed was slow as hell.

but we need a seam bowling allrounder.If Irfan can rediscover his form,he can be a good option

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You're giving undue importance to SA, NZ results. Look at India's batting in 2002 NZ series and our performance in 2003 world cup.

The trend is clearly visible dude.

It happened in SA.

Then in NZ.

Then even here. Until our spinners come in, we are not in any sort of control.

I am aware of SA WC 2003 but 1 example is not a norm. Its an aberration. Plus I think Zaheer did well in that WC (I don't remember).

If Australia is known for helping spinners or something, I can understand. But its known for being really tough for finger spinners. Also NZ pitches for ODIs were flat. Indian pitches were flat. But there was a difference. NZ pitches were hard and flat which gave our spinners nothing unlike flat pitches in India.

Fact is that this is a serious issue and we need to sort it out. Fast.

 

[desi_launda]

Well,we dont have a seam bowling rounder.We have to make do with what we have

 

[Cricfan4eva]

but we need a seam bowling allrounder.If Irfan can rediscover his form,he can be a good option

Added advantage with him over the likes of Rishi/Binny etc is he has experience of playing in Aus/Nz and also has played in ICC tournaments.

 

[desi_launda]

The trend is clearly visible dude.

It happened in SA.

Then in NZ.

Then even here. Until our spinners come in, we are not in any sort of control.

I am aware of SA WC 2003 but 1 example is not a norm. Its an aberration. Plus I think Zaheer did well in that WC (I don't remember).

If Australia is known for helping spinners or something, I can understand. But its known for being really tough for finger spinners. So the odds of it being the same is .

Also NZ pitches for ODIs were flat. Indian pitches were flat. But there is a difference. Hard flat pitches gives nothing for our spinners unlike flat pitches in India.

Fact is this is a serious issue we need to sort out. Fast.

Stop whining and being negative for once.We have won 2 odi's in a row in England

 

[Cricfan4eva]

The trend is clearly visible dude.

It happened in SA.

Then in NZ.

Then even here. Until our spinners come in, we are not in any sort of control.

I am aware of SA WC 2003 but 1 example is not a norm. Its an aberration. Plus I think Zaheer did well in that WC (I don't remember).

If Australia is known for helping spinners or something, I can understand. But its known for being really tough for finger spinners. Also NZ pitches for ODIs were flat. Indian pitches were flat. But there is a difference. Hard flat pitches gives nothing for our spinners unlike flat pitches in India.

Fact is this is a serious issue we need to sort out. Fast.

Who is denying of our failures in bilaterals. Im saying they are hardly an indicator for how we might fare in the World Cup. It has been a trend for quite a while.

 

[Saurav]

Added advantage with him over the likes of Rishi/Binny etc is he has experience of playing in Aus/Nz and also has played in ICC tournaments.

yes and done well in ICC tournaments.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Stop whining and being negative for once.We have won 2 odi's in a row in England

Good. I am happy for that.

Expressing concern where there is a genuine problem isn't whining.

Someone asked me a question and I replied. I didn't go about posting my views again and again.

 

[Saurav]

Well,we dont have a seam bowling rounder.We have to make do with what we have

That is why I said 'if Irfan does well'.

There is no point playing 2 spinners in Australia.One of them would have to replaced by a seam bowling AR

 

[Straight_Drive]

The trend is clearly visible dude.

It happened in SA.

Then in NZ.

Then even here. Until our spinners come in, we are not in any sort of control.

I am aware of SA WC 2003 but 1 example is not a norm. Its an aberration. Plus I think Zaheer did well in that WC (I don't remember).

If Australia is known for helping spinners or something, I can understand. But its known for being really tough for finger spinners. Also NZ pitches for ODIs were flat. Indian pitches were flat. But there was a difference. NZ pitches were hard and flat which gave our spinners nothing unlike flat pitches in India.

Fact is that this is a serious issue and we need to sort it out. Fast.

DUDE....stahp whining puhlease.....we will not be playing every match against host team or same opposition ...learn to differentiate bilaterals and tournaments

 

[Bhaijaan]

Winning useless Jamodis.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Who is denying of our failures in bilaterals. Im saying they are hardly an indicator for how we might fare in the World Cup. It has been a trend for quite a while.

How so?

I just gave you some examples. NZ had flat pitches for ODIs. India had flat pitches. Yet we saw a vast difference in the performance of our spinners.

Yes, all is not lost for us.

But clearly we have our work cut out.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

SIF is making fair points tbh, our pace resources in ODI's are limited and also not very well handled. But in ICC tournaments I think we can make do with this limitation if our batting fires like it had in 2011 wcup, CT and WT20.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

DUDE....stahp whining puhlease.....we will not be playing every match against host team or same opposition ...learn to differentiate bilaterals and tournaments

I won't.

Deal with it dude.

And I didn't start these posts again. I am just replying to a post asking me a question.

Bilaterals and tourneys are different I know. But I have already explained the reasons.

 

[Straight_Drive]

How so?

I just gave you some examples. NZ had flat pitches for ODIs. India had flat pitches. Yet we saw a vast difference in the performance of our spinners.

Yes, all is not lost for us.

But clearly we have our work cut out.

BECAUSE....bilaterals are against same team ....tournaments you play different teams so there is chance of comeback against weaker teams....in bilaterals if a bowler say anderson is getting you out consistently then it is hard to find form and vice versa

 

[loves_cricket]

Winning useless Jamodis.

Chill man, what about WC and CT wins?
But anything India wins is useless!!!!!!

 

[Saurav]

SIF is making fair points tbh, our pace resources in ODI's are limited and also not very well handled. But in ICC tournaments I think we can make do with this limitation if our batting fires like it had in 2011 wcup, CT and WT20.

Yeah we'll make the knockouts.

but from there one bad performance can knock us out and having such a glaring weakness is a concern.

Unless we get pitches that offer help to spinners,I don't see us having a realistic chance

 

[Cricfan4eva]

How so?

I just gave you some examples. NZ had flat pitches for ODIs. India had flat pitches. Yet we saw a vast difference in the performance of our spinners.

Yes, all is not lost for us.

But clearly we have our work cut out.

By same logic India went into CT where most predicted 1st round exit. After what happened in 2011. Bilaterals are not a right indicator for how teams might far in ICC tournaments.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

BECAUSE....bilaterals are against same team ....tournaments you play different teams so there is chance of comeback against weaker teams....in bilaterals if a bowler say anderson is getting you out consistently then it is hard to find form and vice versa

Yep that is one aspect. I agree.

But our pacers are spraying it against SA, NZ and now England.

Also WC 2015 is about winning 3 knock outs (QF, SF and F).

All top 8 teams are going to go to QF for all practical purposes.

So if you lose, you are out.

Coming back against weaker teams logic doesn't hold here.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

By same logic India went into CT where most predicted 1st round exit. After what happened in 2011. Bilaterals are not a right indicator for how teams might far in ICC tournaments.

I never said that bilaterals are a good indicator.

But every commie and expert did admit the pitches weren't exactly English conditions there. yes there was swing and we did well but point is our spinners got purchase.

I can't stress that enough.

If that happens in Aus, we have a serious chance. But that isn't the trend which is why we need to focus on our pacers.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Yeah we'll make the knockouts.

but from there one bad performance can knock us out and having such a glaring weakness is a concern.

Unless we get pitches that offer help to spinners,I don't see us having a realistic chance

Well even the best can have bad days and get knocked out whether it's your weakness or not. In tournaments like these temperament comes to fore which thanks to IPL/CLT20/winning ICC tournaments these youngsters have aplenty. Our main issue right now is we don't have a settled opening combination and a no.4

 

[Straight_Drive]

Yep that is one aspect. I agree.

But our pacers are spraying it against SA, NZ and now England.

Also WC 2015 is about winning 3 knock outs (QF, SF and F).

All top 8 teams are going to go to QF for all practical purposes.

So if you lose, you are out.

Coming back against weaker teams logic doesn't hold here.

the only teams that can beat India in a knockout is Australia....S.A have a history of choking, Sri lanka are our punching bags.....India can out bat every opposition except Australia so it's chill

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I never said that bilaterals are a good indicator.

But every commie and expert did admit the pitches weren't exactly English conditions there. yes there was swing and we did well but point is our spinners got purchase.

I can't stress that enough.

If that happens in Aus, we have a serious chance. But that isn't the trend which is why we need to focus on our pacers.

Well they weren't English because ICC decides on pitches. Which is why India wouldn't need to worry as much as they'd have to worry for the CB series. Moreover that will help our bowlers get idea about the lengths to bowl in the main tournament. The best possible practice they can get ahead of world cup.

 

[Saurav]

Well even the best can have bad days and get knocked out whether it's your weakness or not. In tournaments like these temperament comes to fore which thanks to IPL/CLT20/winning ICC tournaments these youngsters have aplenty. Our main issue right now is we don't have a settled opening combination and a no.4

ofcourse anybody can get knocked out.That doesnt mean we should pretend all is well and not look into our weakness.

Batting doesnt concern me that much tbh,pace bowling does

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Well they weren't English because ICC decides on pitches. Which is why India wouldn't need to worry as much as they'd have to worry for the CB series. Moreover that will help our bowlers get idea about the lengths to bowl in the main tournament. The best possible practice they can get ahead of world cup.

Yes but that's a hope. ICC can issue guidelines but we don't know to what extend the Aussie pitches can change.

Which is why our strategy must be cover all our bases.

 

[leatherface58]

Rayudu looks impressive. Starts out a bit slow but makes up for it. Besides, he didn't need any macho crap today as the target was very low. He seems to be a uber-Misbah or uber-Shehzad.

 

[Straight_Drive]

Rayudu looks impressive. Starts out a bit slow but makes up for it. Besides, he didn't need any macho crap today as the target was very low. He seems to be a uber-Misbah or uber-Shehzad.

rayadu ain't good...he is our version of misbah and shehzad a str rate of 66 b4 this match....we don't need this guy

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rayudu is a gritty player who will fight it out.

But he is a limited batsman.

I can see why [MENTION=137420]Straight_Drive[/MENTION] was so critical of him.

In the Indian context, batting is everything. If we screw that up, we don't stand a chance. And in that scheme of things, Rayudu's slow batting won't fit in. He either has to improve or he will be replaced.

 

[Electron]

I agree about Raydu. Today, we weren't chasing a lot, but chases in Australia will more likely be 300+, and players like Raydu will do a Misbah.

Jadeja used to be like this too, cost us a T20 WC, but today he is a different player. Raydu needs to do the same.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I agree about Raydu. Today, we weren't chasing a lot, but chases in Australia will more likely be 300+, and players like Raydu will do a Misbah.

Jadeja used to be like this too, cost us a T20 WC, but today he is a different player. Raydu needs to do the same.

We have a history of that happening.

Yuvi WC T20 2014.

 

[tempus123]

I agree about Raydu. Today, we weren't chasing a lot, but chases in Australia will more likely be 300+, and players like Raydu will do a Misbah.

Jadeja used to be like this too, cost us a T20 WC, but today he is a different player. Raydu needs to do the same.

How did he perform in A-tour to Australia ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

More than rayudu i am worried about indian openers. Dhawan is a hack and have been found out. He should be dropped. Hasn't done anything in the last couple of series. Rohit shouldn't open. India always had good opening pairs. Sachin - ganguly, ganguly - sehwag, sachin - sehwag, gambhir - sehwag. Look at now rohit - dhawan are opening for india. With this opening pair forget about winning the world cup again.

 

[Robert]

Winning useless Jamodis.

While this JAMODI series will allow Dhoni to go home with the test mauling forgotten, there is the question of getting in useful practice for the MODI WC next year.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

England's ODI batting is very limited. The 90's all over again. Back then they had a terrific opener in Nick Knight at least.