England v India | 3rd Test | Headingley | Aug 25 - Aug 29, 2021 | Pre-match discussion

[MenInG]

So India ahead in the series but do they need to change a winning combination?

England batting looked all over the place - especially the openers - will they make changes too?

 

[MenInG]

Latest WTC standings

 

[AMSS]

Luckily for ENG and Anderson, there's an 8 day break. Enough time to recover after bowling close to 60 overs this test. Will be interesting to see if the delicate and grumpy grampa can plough through the series.

 

[Shafi]

England was lucky to survive first test due to rain. Without Root England cannot even score 150. In ideal condition India should win 4-0 or 5-0 against them.

 

[Robert]

I find this narrative that rain saved England at TB interesting. It’s cricket, it’s unpredictable. India were gone for all money at noon yesterday then everything changed.

England should drop Sibley, push Hameed up to open, bring back the combative Malan at #3, and swap Curran for Woakes if he is available.

 

[U$ofA]

I find this narrative that rain saved England at TB interesting. It’s cricket, it’s unpredictable. India were gone for all money at noon yesterday then everything changed.

England should drop Sibley, push Hameed up to open, bring back the combative Malan at #3, and swap Curran for Woakes if he is available.

Sibley, as bad as he has been still made more runs than Hameed. Hameed barely got off a pair. Scored nine runs that too after being dropped once and edges falling short.

 

[Last Monetarist]

There are no easy solutions for Root and Silverwood when it comes to selection given that there's no 4-day cricket being played currently, and the absolute dearth of technically proficient top-order batsmen in the country.

If it were me, I'd play the following side at Headingley including two names that were discarded prematurely:

Duckett
Burns
Vince
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Moeen
Robinson
Wood
Mahmood
Anderson

 

[Saurav]

I find this narrative that rain saved England at TB interesting. It’s cricket, it’s unpredictable. India were gone for all money at noon yesterday then everything changed.

England should drop Sibley, push Hameed up to open, bring back the combative Malan at #3, and swap Curran for Woakes if he is available.

is Pope out of action?

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

What happened to Ollie Pope?

 

[Noman]

There are no easy solutions for Root and Silverwood when it comes to selection given that there's no 4-day cricket being played currently, and the absolute dearth of technically proficient top-order batsmen in the country.

If it were me, I'd play the following side at Headingley including two names that were discarded prematurely:

Duckett
Burns
Vince
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Moeen
Robinson
Wood
Mahmood
Anderson

This is a lot better team. Why is Vince not playing. Burns is not a test class batsman

 

[Last Monetarist]

This is a lot better team. Why is Vince not playing. Burns is not a test class batsman

It's a toss up between Hameed and Burns for me, Hameed's manner of dismissals at Lord's don't really inspire much confidence about his long-term test future.

I'd agree Burns isn't a test-class player but he has scored a few good test centuries including one against New Zealand earlier in June, so he has earned a longer rope for me. Sibley and Crawley are mentally shot and it'd do more harm if they play more test cricket this season.

Vince is a strange one, he was selected for the Ashes in 2017 despite having a horrible domestic season for Hampshire and then after being arguably one of the best batsmen that winter he was dropped by Ed Smith without explanation. He's been scoring runs consistently in county cricket, including a double century earlier this season. He's maintained his form in white ball cricket and England could do worse than recall him.

 

[Robert]

Sibley, as bad as he has been still made more runs than Hameed. Hameed barely got off a pair. Scored nine runs that too after being dropped once and edges falling short.

Sibley has had a good long go. He doesn’t have an attacking game. Also if he plays at Oval and OT his jumpy technique will not cope with Ashwin.

Hameed has more shots and I believe more calmness under pressure. He has had two good matches and one bad. I want him to play the three remaining India tests and go to Australia.

 

[Robert]

Why is Vince not playing.

Had lots of chances and looks good then gets out.

 

[Robert]

What happened to Ollie Pope?

Injured.

 

[Mercurial]

I would stick with Burns and Sibley. Ollie Pope (if injured then someone else with an above 40 FC average) and Gary Ballance should replace Hameed and Bairstow. Bairstow should be dropped from the Test team, what a failed investment, averaging just 34 that too from 75 games, shocking stuff. Buttler needs to dropped and replaced by a WK with a better FC batting average.

 

[jnaveen1980]

10 superb days of cricket. This game was competitive because of Root. One man who didn't allow India to run away. Hope we get another cracker of a Test.

 

[James]

How about —

The Vincenator
Hammy
Dav
Rooty*
YJB
Pontiff
Jos+
Beard
Robbo
Saq
Jimmy

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I find this narrative that rain saved England at TB interesting. It’s cricket, it’s unpredictable. India were gone for all money at noon yesterday then everything changed.

England should drop Sibley, push Hameed up to open, bring back the combative Malan at #3, and swap Curran for Woakes if he is available.

The match at Trent Bridge was evenly poised, chasing anything above 200 is always a tough task and that too in difficult conditions.

 

[Titan24]

Mehmood has to debut, has been in great form in last few months and Wood’s availability is not sure as well. If Woakes is fit he should come in for Curran.

Sibley should be dropped and Hameed should open. Possibly Malan needs to be brought back in at no 3.

I think only one off Buttler and Bairstow should play. If Pope is fit he can come in otherwise Lawrence or Vince.

 

[Robert]

How about —

The Vincenator
Hammy
Dav
Rooty*
YJB
Pontiff
Jos+
Beard
Robbo
Saq
Jimmy

Isn’t it Daw not Dav?

Beard is too low. He has two tons against India.

Else I like the look - the openers at least stand still as the bowler approaches.

 

[Mesozoic]

Sad to see the state of England batting these days.

From

Cook
Strauss
Trott
Bell
Petersen

To

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Lawrence
Bairstow

 

[James]

Isn’t it Daw not Dav?

Beard is too low. He has two tons against India.

Else I like the look - the openers at least stand still as the bowler approaches.

I think whichever England side gets picked next up, the openers definitely both have to go. After those twin ducks yesterday, to go along with all of the other failures, their positions have become untenable. Even if Vince and Hameed were to bat for 15 overs and score 35 runs before Root has to come in, it would be an improvement.

And without Stokes (or possibly Woakes) we can only play with four bowlers: the batting is so flaky that we need to pack it out and hope for some fighting partnerships. Moeen batting at eight is indeed pretty low to be fair.

 

[Last Monetarist]

How about —

The Vincenator
Hammy
Dav
Rooty*
YJB
Pontiff
Jos+
Beard
Robbo
Saq
Jimmy

The pontiff is still injured, I reckon. Otherwise I like the look of that team.

 

[BDfanforever]

What is the point of 5 match series if players can't even last 1 or 2 games? Just play 3 match series and have your absolute best players play in all 3 games.

 

[Ramsay]

Play Buttler as a pure batsman and bring in Foakes. The later is definitely an upgrade over Bairstow.

 

[Robert]

I think whichever England side gets picked next up, the openers definitely both have to go. After those twin ducks yesterday, to go along with all of the other failures, their positions have become untenable. Even if Vince and Hameed were to bat for 15 overs and score 35 runs before Root has to come in, it would be an improvement.

And without Stokes (or possibly Woakes) we can only play with four bowlers: the batting is so flaky that we need to pack it out and hope for some fighting partnerships. Moeen batting at eight is indeed pretty low to be fair.

I would put Beard at six in the absence of Stokes, he likes responsibility.

The top order batting is no worse than in 2018 when England won 4-1 but key runs were coming from eight and nine - Woakes and Curran. There was that wonderful last-test performance by Cook of course.

Curran still looks a yard too slow for tests to me.

 

[Robert]

Play Buttler as a pure batsman and bring in Foakes. The later is definitely an upgrade over Bairstow.

Interesting point. Buttler is not good enough in tests purely as a batter though.

I am starting to think the side has to be torn apart and rebuilt from scratch around Root, Stokes, Foakes, Robinson, Wood, and Anderson for as long as he keeps going. Nobody else is really good enough.

 

[MenInG]

An England side reeling from a 151-run defeat by India, and already missing several fast bowlers, could be without Mark Wood for next week's third Test after the express quick injured himself while fielding at Lord's.

Wood landed heavily on his right shoulder while diving headlong into an advertising hoarding when saving a boundary on the fourth evening, but he still bowled at speeds in excess of 93 mph (150 kph) on Monday's last day of the second Test.

There are doubts, however, over whether the Durham paceman, whose career has been blighted by injuries, will be fit to feature at Headingley, with England due to name their squad on Wednesday.

England are already without several seam bowlers in the injured Stuart Broad, Jofra Archer and Chris Woakes, while all-rounder Ben Stokes is unavailable due to a mental health break.

"The medics are working on him (Wood), we'll find out more in the next couple of days," England coach Chris Silverwood said Tuesday after a crushing loss that left his side 1-0 down in a five-match series following a rain-marred draw at Trent Bridge.

"We will make a decision, along with him and our medics, closer to the time. But if he's not right, he's not right. I certainly won't push him into playing if he tells me he's not right. I will look after him."

But for all Silverwood lauded Wood's "superb effort", many felt he should have taken greater care in the field.

"It was madness," said former England batsman Geoffrey Boycott in his column for Britain's Daily Telegraph.

"Modern-day cricketers all dive athletically to save runs and the effort is commendable, but it is not worth the risk of injury to a leading bowler," he added.

England, now without a win in their last seven Tests, repeatedly bowled too short at Mohammed Shami and Jasprit Bumrah during their unbroken ninth-wicket stand of 89.

The India duo then starred with the ball as England, set a target of 272, were shot out for 120 with 49 balls left in the day.

- England's tactics 'crazy' -

England's quicks appeared more interested in seeking revenge for the rough treatment number 11 James Anderson received when he batted, rather than dismissing the India tailenders.

"Bouncer after bouncer was crazy," said Boycott. "Emotion got the better of England and common sense went out the window."

England captain Joe Root -- who made a superb 180 not out in the first innings -- blamed himself for his side's tactics, but Silverwood said: "It's a collective and I'm part of that as well.

"We tried to go toe-to-toe with them, but what we could have done better is shift from that tactic back to Plan A, and hitting the top of off."

Silverwood, himself a former England bowler, praised Shami and Bumrah by saying: "I thought they handled the situation really well."

Meanwhile, there was no escaping England's ongoing lack of top-order runs, with a first three of Rory Burns, Dom Sibley and Haseeb Hameed each out for a duck at Lord's.

Only left-handed opener Burns, with a first-innings 49, managed a score of any note.

England may drop Sibley, averaging under 20 in Tests this year, following his duck on Monday.

But it is by no means obvious who would replace him.

Silverwood, now in sole charge of picking the squad after Ed Smith's role as national selector was axed, said: "You've got to do what's best for the team, ultimately, and find the best way of progressing England to a place where big first-innings runs -- and second-innings runs -- come in on a consistent basis."

AFP

 

[sam_ahm]

India's recent test success on tours of Australia and presently in England is more due to weak opposition teams rather than India's strengths. I don't want to belittle the achievements but this is an honest assessment, moreover this is not India's problem, they can only play the quality of opposition that turns up. New Zealand are probably the only strong team at the moment that can expose India's weaknesses as we saw last yr in NZLs home test series and again this yr at WTC finals.

India have a brittle middle order, with Pujara, Rahane and even Kohli not in the best of forms, Pant is also more or less a test player in the making, he is not there yet, but England haven't yet capitalized on this. Imagine allowing Shami and Bumrah to turn the game around with the bat, that shows lack of penetration in English bowling.

Earlier in Australia, a completely inexperienced indian bowling line up, stunned the Aussie batsmen. Imagine the earlier Australian or English teams, they would have ended careers of such inexperienced bowling line ups.

All in all my honest assessment is that other teams need to scale up to be able to challenge India. We are as of now enjoying the lowest quality of opposition across the world and that helps in gaining success.

 

[AMSS]

India's recent test success on tours of Australia and presently in England is more due to weak opposition teams rather than India's strengths. I don't want to belittle the achievements but this is an honest assessment, moreover this is not India's problem, they can only play the quality of opposition that turns up. New Zealand are probably the only strong team at the moment that can expose India's weaknesses as we saw last yr in NZLs home test series and again this yr at WTC finals.

India have a brittle middle order, with Pujara, Rahane and even Kohli not in the best of forms, Pant is also more or less a test player in the making, he is not there yet, but England haven't yet capitalized on this. Imagine allowing Shami and Bumrah to turn the game around with the bat, that shows lack of penetration in English bowling.

Earlier in Australia, a completely inexperienced indian bowling line up, stunned the Aussie batsmen. Imagine the earlier Australian or English teams, they would have ended careers of such inexperienced bowling line ups.

All in all my honest assessment is that other teams need to scale up to be able to challenge India. We are as of now enjoying the lowest quality of opposition across the world and that helps in gaining success.

My honest assessment is that your post is full of laughable circularity and factual inaccuracies. It's also my honest assessment that it's not for you to say your assessment is honest, it's best left to those who read your posts.

 

[Sir Alex]

India's recent test success on tours of Australia and presently in England is more due to weak opposition teams rather than India's strengths. I don't want to belittle the achievements but this is an honest assessment, moreover this is not India's problem, they can only play the quality of opposition that turns up. New Zealand are probably the only strong team at the moment that can expose India's weaknesses as we saw last yr in NZLs home test series and again this yr at WTC finals.

India have a brittle middle order, with Pujara, Rahane and even Kohli not in the best of forms, Pant is also more or less a test player in the making, he is not there yet, but England haven't yet capitalized on this. Imagine allowing Shami and Bumrah to turn the game around with the bat, that shows lack of penetration in English bowling.

Earlier in Australia, a completely inexperienced indian bowling line up, stunned the Aussie batsmen. Imagine the earlier Australian or English teams, they would have ended careers of such inexperienced bowling line ups.

All in all my honest assessment is that other teams need to scale up to be able to challenge India. We are as of now enjoying the lowest quality of opposition across the world and that helps in gaining success.

India is lucky in the sense it has probably one of the worst batting sets in their recent history. The likes of Pujara, Rahane etc have done nothing to merit continued selection.

However they have easily the best bolwing attack and probably one of the all time best World cricket has seen. The stats speak for themselves and they have a captain who backs their players to the hilt (this is not a great thing when it comes to batters but bowlers win matches etc).

Pant is definitely test class and among the best keepers in the world right now. His glove work has been exceptional in the last few tests and he is only going to get better. As a batter, his mere presence is a matter of worry for opposition.

In short, there is not much opposition batsmen can hope to do other than pray for a really bad day by Indian bowlers. But the way the 4 complement each other, this is hard to happen. Since 2016, I think only two or three times a team has managed to rack up a huge score against them (over 450).

But at the same time, their batting is overrated. Rohit and KL have lunched above their weights to get a good opening stand for them, but this will not happen every time. Pujara, Rahane and Kohli have been out of form for a long time and only Oohli can reasonably be expected to make a big score out of these 3. There has been not a single time when Pant has come to bat without pressure in recent times. So English bowlers must utilise this and ensure India never score above 250 in any innings

 

[Ab Fan]

India's recent test success on tours of Australia and presently in England is more due to weak opposition teams rather than India's strengths. I don't want to belittle the achievements but this is an honest assessment, moreover this is not India's problem, they can only play the quality of opposition that turns up. New Zealand are probably the only strong team at the moment that can expose India's weaknesses as we saw last yr in NZLs home test series and again this yr at WTC finals.

India have a brittle middle order, with Pujara, Rahane and even Kohli not in the best of forms, Pant is also more or less a test player in the making, he is not there yet, but England haven't yet capitalized on this. Imagine allowing Shami and Bumrah to turn the game around with the bat, that shows lack of penetration in English bowling.

Earlier in Australia, a completely inexperienced indian bowling line up, stunned the Aussie batsmen. Imagine the earlier Australian or English teams, they would have ended careers of such inexperienced bowling line ups.

All in all my honest assessment is that other teams need to scale up to be able to challenge India. We are as of now enjoying the lowest quality of opposition across the world and that helps in gaining success.

There is no way you can say that success in Australia 2020 is due to weak opposition team. Actually, we have absolutely had a mental edge over Australia whether home or away.

The fact that in 2017 home series, they came up to India with so much of practice and preparation but still lost the series tells us that we have completely outclassed Australian team even at their best and then we did the same away in last two tours too.

The one in 2020 had Smith, Labuschagne, Warner (2 matches) and all four pacers. What else do you want? A couple of middling players and a couple of rookies here and there will always be there in any team, it does not make any team a weak one.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

India's recent test success on tours of Australia and presently in England is more due to weak opposition teams rather than India's strengths. I don't want to belittle the achievements but this is an honest assessment, moreover this is not India's problem, they can only play the quality of opposition that turns up. New Zealand are probably the only strong team at the moment that can expose India's weaknesses as we saw last yr in NZLs home test series and again this yr at WTC finals.

India have a brittle middle order, with Pujara, Rahane and even Kohli not in the best of forms, Pant is also more or less a test player in the making, he is not there yet, but England haven't yet capitalized on this. Imagine allowing Shami and Bumrah to turn the game around with the bat, that shows lack of penetration in English bowling.

Earlier in Australia, a completely inexperienced indian bowling line up, stunned the Aussie batsmen. Imagine the earlier Australian or English teams, they would have ended careers of such inexperienced bowling line ups.

All in all my honest assessment is that other teams need to scale up to be able to challenge India. We are as of now enjoying the lowest quality of opposition across the world and that helps in gaining success.

Same 'honest assessment' should be done for the Australian team of the 90s, which bull dozed all the weaker oppositions as Australian domestic strcuture was producing 2-3 players for every position, their players were super fit and more professional as compared to rest of the cricketing world at that point of time.

Even, then, same Assesment should also be applied to Windies Juggernaut of mids 70s to 80s, as rest of the teams were short of the the pace quartet like they had and rest of the teams were a bit weaker then them.

Such a frame of reference should be applied to belittle any team of any era.
They play what is available to them and try to become the best out of their current peers.
It is not Indias fault that England have not found good openers, Australia has only 2 good batters and
Pakistan, West Indies and Sri Lanka boards are highly mismanaged over a time. Right.

So, they are best of the current lot, same as the other top teams were in their eras, We should be applying that frame of reference.

 

[James]

Interesting point. Buttler is not good enough in tests purely as a batter though.

I am starting to think the side has to be torn apart and rebuilt from scratch around Root, Stokes, Foakes, Robinson, Wood, and Anderson for as long as he keeps going. Nobody else is really good enough.

Yes, that’s one idea. We might have to sacrifice results in the short (and possibly also the medium) term, and accept a likely imminent run of losses, in order to build a new side that will be much more successful in the future.

 

[Buffet]

Eng just needs to score some runs and they will win.

India has Pujara and Rahane. They also have out-of-form Kohli and a long tail.

 

[shortbread]

Sibley is currently England's favourite scapegoat, an that is not fair. I am sure looking at the results of late, a batsman capable of eating up hundreds of balls with ease is nothing to complain about.

This was the first time Sibley lost his wicket to the bowler, otherwise he threw away his wickets to innocuous deliveries. Sibley looks like he's struggling whenever he bats, that's his game and its exactly what made also him one of the most successful county batsman of recent times.

Hameed is not ready to face such a tough opposition, got out thrice (one dropped catch). Sibley as ugly as he looks has been impenetrable. Sure he does not score runs, but he saves the middle order from facing the new ball against a ruthless pace attack.

Sibley and Burns must be backed and they are the best suited to take on Strac and co. soon. Chopping and changing the openers will not help England, that is not where the core issue lies.

 

[RamLakhan]

Eng just needs to score some runs and they will win.

India has Pujara and Rahane. They also have out-of-form Kohli and a long tail.

Their best chance is flat pitch! (In this way they can outscore Indian Middle order. Pujara & co will suffer to score even on flattest ODI type pitches - they are so much down mentally!). And then while bowling emphasize on new ball and short-pitch bowling with old ball...

Green Pitch will just help Indian style of aggressive game at the moment!

 

[dildilpak]

“You're never as good as you think you are when you win; and you're never as bad as you feel when you lose.”

England competed pretty well in the first test and until Day 5 in the second test. They need to trust their abilities and strengths. If they start well in the next test, they will be fine. A swinging/seaming pitch is still their best bet.

 

[sam_ahm]

Same 'honest assessment' should be done for the Australian team of the 90s, which bull dozed all the weaker oppositions as Australian domestic strcuture was producing 2-3 players for every position, their players were super fit and more professional as compared to rest of the cricketing world at that point of time.

Even, then, same Assesment should also be applied to Windies Juggernaut of mids 70s to 80s, as rest of the teams were short of the the pace quartet like they had and rest of the teams were a bit weaker then them.

Such a frame of reference should be applied to belittle any team of any era.
They play what is available to them and try to become the best out of their current peers.
It is not Indias fault that England have not found good openers, Australia has only 2 good batters and
Pakistan, West Indies and Sri Lanka boards are highly mismanaged over a time. Right.

So, they are best of the current lot, same as the other top teams were in their eras, We should be applying that frame of reference.

That's exactly what I said, it is not India's problem.

 

[sam_ahm]

Same 'honest assessment' should be done for the Australian team of the 90s, which bull dozed all the weaker oppositions as Australian domestic strcuture was producing 2-3 players for every position, their players were super fit and more professional as compared to rest of the cricketing world at that point of time.

Even, then, same Assesment should also be applied to Windies Juggernaut of mids 70s to 80s, as rest of the teams were short of the the pace quartet like they had and rest of the teams were a bit weaker then them.

Such a frame of reference should be applied to belittle any team of any era.
They play what is available to them and try to become the best out of their current peers.
It is not Indias fault that England have not found good openers, Australia has only 2 good batters and
Pakistan, West Indies and Sri Lanka boards are highly mismanaged over a time. Right.

So, they are best of the current lot, same as the other top teams were in their eras, We should be applying that frame of reference.

Nope, Aussies of the 90s and early 00s had world class players and the oppositions were not as weak. Same goes for Windies of the 70s. Just to put things in perspective even a West Indies team of 90s which was considered to be weak had Lara, Walsh, Chaderpaul, Ambrose, and the likes. Teams like South Africa were very strong, Sri Lanka had the likes of Aravinda, Sanath, Murali, Vaas.. India themselves had Sachin, Rahul, Ganguly, VVS, Kumble, Srinath. Still Aussies dominated every team.

If you are trying to say Rohit, KL, Rahane, Kohli and Pujara are world beaters then except for Kohli I don't think anyone is in tests. It's a pretty average batting line up.

As for bowling, I do agree we've got the best 4 fast bowlers going around, but they are likely to look better than what they are because they are up against very weak batsmen. Against New Zealand who had a strong batting line up, the bowling struggled a bit I'd say.

 

[sam_ahm]

There is no way you can say that success in Australia 2020 is due to weak opposition team. Actually, we have absolutely had a mental edge over Australia whether home or away.

The fact that in 2017 home series, they came up to India with so much of practice and preparation but still lost the series tells us that we have completely outclassed Australian team even at their best and then we did the same away in last two tours too.

The one in 2020 had Smith, Labuschagne, Warner (2 matches) and all four pacers. What else do you want? A couple of middling players and a couple of rookies here and there will always be there in any team, it does not make any team a weak one.

I'm saying in general the modern day teams are weak. I don't even rate Warner as a test batsman and Labuschagne has hardly had 2 yrs in intl cricket, we are talking as if he is some legend. Same goes for England, tell me one batsman other than Root who is actually world class.

South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies - they are mere shadows of what they were. As I gave examples in the above post. Only NZL is strong and we are not doing that well against them.

Other teams don't even need a mention.

My point is simple, India have got problems, team is not as strong but other teams are even worse and not able to take advantage.

 

[street cricketer]

Nope, Aussies of the 90s and early 00s had world class players and the oppositions were not as weak. Same goes for Windies of the 70s. Just to put things in perspective even a West Indies team of 90s which was considered to be weak had Lara, Walsh, Chaderpaul, Ambrose, and the likes. Teams like South Africa were very strong, Sri Lanka had the likes of Aravinda, Sanath, Murali, Vaas.. India themselves had Sachin, Rahul, Ganguly, VVS, Kumble, Srinath. Still Aussies dominated every team.

If you are trying to say Rohit, KL, Rahane, Kohli and Pujara are world beaters then except for Kohli I don't think anyone is in tests. It's a pretty average batting line up.

As for bowling, I do agree we've got the best 4 fast bowlers going around, but they are likely to look better than what they are because they are up against very weak batsmen. Against New Zealand who had a strong batting line up, the bowling struggled a bit I'd say.

New Zealand played the WTC final with everything aligned in its favour - They had already been in UK for more than a month and played a two match series with England prior to it while India were stuck in quarantine with zero practice, the conditions were exactly like their home conditions, a seaming wicket and they won the toss on top of it as well. NZ are clearly the better team in seaming conditions, I don't think anyone doubts it. But alternatively, NZ will lose to India everywhere else other than NZ and England where the ball moves a lot in the air.

You say Labuschagne is average, but NZ could barely deal with the likes of Wade and Burns when they last visited Australia. So every team has its deficiencies but India has the least among the top teams. NZ hasn't won a test in Australia, India and South Africa since decades, they're great in favourable conditions because all their pacers are masterful when the ball moves around. But they struggle when the ball stops moving against top teams. India is far from being Australia or Windies of the past, but they're approaching something similar to the stature of the English team of the early 2010s who won in India and Australia, and they can better their legacy if they win in more overseas countries.

 

[Babbar]

Hindsight always looks better. Today England has the likes of Root, Stokes, Anderson, Ali, Bairatow, Wood, Archer, Morgan & Woakes who can steamroll most of the past teams.

NZ has their best every team in Kane, Southee, Ross, Boult, Guptill and Santner. Australia with Smith, Warner, Starc, Cummins, Maxwell, Finch is mighty strong against anyone except possibly India.

And Pakistan has Babar and…, yes Babar.

The point being that just because Pakistan does not have exciting players does not mean others don’t. This is probably the first time in test history where 4 strong teams are playing together in the same era - sort of men tennis with Djoker, Nadal and Federer together.

This is very close to the golden era of test cricket. I can understand the angst of Pak fans as Pakistan is not a part of the top 4 but test cricket is doing pretty well, despite all the Cassandras in Pakistan.

The problem is the mad obsession that Pak fans, Pak players and PCB has for T20s, T10s and 100s. Don’t blame the world for own issues..

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

How about —

The Vincenator
Hammy
Dav
Rooty*
YJB
Pontiff
Jos+
Beard
Robbo
Saq
Jimmy

@ the names..
is Jos + - Butler? aint that a batsmen too many
how about stone for butler?

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

I guess che pu might have to sit this one out
or thakur for ishant might be a certainity...
dont see ashwin at headingley
I surely see him at the oval...

 

[MenInG]

Dawid Malan is added to the England Men’s Test squad for the third Test at Emerald Headingley

England Men’s Head Coach Chris Silverwood has named a 15-player squad for the third LV= Insurance Test match against India starting at Emerald Headingley on Wednesday 25 August 2021.

England Men’s Third Test Squad

Joe Root (Yorkshire) Captain
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire)
Dan Lawrence (Essex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Yorkshire)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Ollie Robinson (Sussex)
Mark Wood (Durham)

Yorkshire batsman Dawid Malan returns to the Test squad for the first time in three years. He last played Test cricket in August 2018 in England’s victory over India at Edgbaston. He will be looking to add to his 15 caps.

Lancashire seamer Saqib Mahmood is included after impressing in all formats. He has yet to make his Test debut but will be aiming to add to his England credentials, having already been capped by the senior side in ODIs and IT20s.

The 24-year-old right-arm quick is familiar with the England set-up, having toured as a reserve during England’s winter Test programmes in Sri Lanka and India. In addition, he was part of the extended squads during last summer’s behind closed doors Test series against West Indies and Pakistan and was called up as back up in the build-up to the first Test at Lord’s.

Batsmen Zak Crawley and Dom Sibley are omitted and will return to Kent and Warwickshire respectively, to spend some time playing.

Somerset spinner Jack Leach will return to Taunton, but remains on standby as back-up to Moeen Ali.

The England medical team will monitor seamer Mark Wood’s injured right shoulder sustained at the end of day four during the first Test at Lord’s. It is expected that he will make a full recovery ahead of the Emerald Headingley Test.

England Men’s Head Coach, Chris Silverwood, said:

“The Test series is beautifully poised, and we are relishing the prospect of aiming to bounce back at Emerald Headingley next week.

“Dawid Malan deserves his opportunity in the Test arena. He has a lot of experience across all formats and, if called upon, I am confident that he can come and do well on his home ground. In the limited time he has played first-class cricket this season, he has shown what he is capable of, scoring a highly accomplished 199 for Yorkshire against Sussex at Headingley in June.

“Zak Crawley will return to Kent to galvanise the excellent work he did last week in the nets at Lord’s with Assistant Coach Graham Thorpe. Zak is still a massive part of our plans moving forward, but we feel he would benefit from time outside the pressure of international competition to get some time working on his skills. He has a bright future and I do not doubt that his time will come again in the Test arena.

“Dom Sibley needs some time away to regain his confidence after a challenging period. He will return to Warwickshire to spend time in the middle without the scrutiny and find some rhythm and confidence. Dom offers a lot of value to the Test environment and some time away should help him. However, he remains part of our plans.

“Jack Leach will return to Somerset to get some game time. I have been impressed with his patience and it’s not easy living under the COVID protocols, especially when you’re not playing. However, he has regained his confidence and spark, and it has been a considerable asset having him around. He will be on standby should we need his services, but we want what is best for him and playing cricket and getting overs into him is the way to go.

“We are hopeful that Mark Wood will be fit after injuring his right shoulder in the first Test. Our medical team will be working with him each day. We will monitor where he is at when we get to Leeds.

“We also have the services of Saqib Mahmood, who has been brilliant across all formats this summer. He is confident, highly-skilled and will not be overawed if he is to make his Test debut. His temperament and attitude are suited to the international arena.”

The England Men’s Test squad will report to its Leeds base on Sunday.

Ends

LV= Insurance Test Series

1st Test: England v India, 4-8 August 2021, Trent Bridge, Nottingham (match drawn)
2nd Test: England v India, 12-16 August 2021, Lord’s, London (India won by 151 runs)
3rd Test: England v India, 25-29 August 2021, Emerald Headingley, Leeds
4th Test: England v India, 2-6 September 2021, Kia Oval, London
5th Test: England v India, 10-14 September, Emirates Old Trafford, Manchester

 

[Devadwal]

Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Pope /Ali
Overton
Robinson
Wood
Anderson

 

[Amjid Javed]

England should be thanking the weather gods they arent 2-0.

Apart from Root they have been pathetic in both tests.

India have bullied england in all departsments.

new ball, old ball. scoring runs, runs from the tail.

other than some miraculous individual performance from root or Anderson. england aint going to win a test from a collective team effort.

India should be aiming for a 2-0 or 3-0 series win here.

 

[shariqnoor]

Thank God Sibley is out. The worst opener in world cricket right now. About time Burns get a boot too. How have England persisted with them for this long, is a mystery.

 

[Devadwal]

Thank God Sibley is out. The worst opener in world cricket right now. About time Burns get a boot too. How have England persisted with them for this long, is a mystery.

Just check burn record vs nz series , you will get your answer. He made 132 at lords and a fifty in 2nd match in same series.

 

[Saj]

Injuries, illness, loss of form and other reasons - England are in all sorts of trouble.

 

[Devadwal]

People say why indian team not win a series again England after 2017 but team like Srilanka ,NZ win after that even Pakistan draw series .

Just some fact

Year 2014.
SL win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was draw )
So if this was a 2 test match series india would have won 1-0

Year 2021
NZ win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was a draw)
So if this is also two test match series than india would won by 1-0

 

[Mesozoic]

People say why indian team not win a series again England after 2017 but team like Srilanka ,NZ win after that even Pakistan draw series .

Just some fact

Year 2014.
SL win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was draw )
So if this was a 2 test match series india would have won 1-0

Year 2021
NZ win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was a draw)
So if this is also two test match series than india would won by 1-0

Yeah people often don't realize how hard it is to keep the momentum going in a 4-5 match long series away from home.

 

[OMB]

India should bring in Shaw instead of Pujara and promote Pant up the order.

Headache decision would be to bring Ashwin at the cost of a pacer (Ishant sharma)
or
reduce a batsmen when Kohli Rahane and Pujara are already going through a lean patch?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I'm saying in general the modern day teams are weak. I don't even rate Warner as a test batsman and Labuschagne has hardly had 2 yrs in intl cricket, we are talking as if he is some legend. Same goes for England, tell me one batsman other than Root who is actually world class.

South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies - they are mere shadows of what they were. As I gave examples in the above post. Only NZL is strong and we are not doing that well against them.

Other teams don't even need a mention.

My point is simple, India have got problems, team is not as strong but other teams are even worse and not able to take advantage.

You cannot be serious. Warner averages 50 plus with 22 centuries in Australia and bulldozed every opposition on Australian soil. Labuschange reeled of centuries off Pakistan and Newzealand without much fuss, but struggled somewhat against India, still scored one century and couple of fifties.

Like i said, you can put any frame of reference to belittle any player from any era.
In 2050, some kids will be belittling the current batters of that generation saying the ones in 2030 were better because some random X,Y,Z conditions. Where does this stop ?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

India should bring in Shaw instead of Pujara and promote Pant up the order.

Headache decision would be to bring Ashwin at the cost of a pacer (Ishant sharma)
or
reduce a batsmen when Kohli Rahane and Pujara are already going through a lean patch?

There will be no change i believe. Except Ashwin/Ishant swap depending upon the pitch.

 

[Sir Alex]

People say why indian team not win a series again England after 2017 but team like Srilanka ,NZ win after that even Pakistan draw series .

Just some fact

Year 2014.
SL win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was draw )
So if this was a 2 test match series india would have won 1-0

Year 2021
NZ win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was a draw)
So if this is also two test match series than india would won by 1-0

Yeah excellent point. 5 test match series are an overkill but at minimum all test series have to be best of 3. Ideally best of 4.

 

[AMSS]

India should bring in Shaw instead of Pujara and promote Pant up the order.

Headache decision would be to bring Ashwin at the cost of a pacer (Ishant sharma)
or
reduce a batsmen when Kohli Rahane and Pujara are already going through a lean patch?

KL shouldn't be risked opening no matter how successful it has been so far. If Pujara cannot be dropped then have him open alongside Rohit to blunt the new ball. KL can come at 3. But yes, Rohit with Shaw followed by KL is my preference too.

Pant is fine where he bats, above Jadeja.

Rohit, Shaw, KL, Kohli, Rahane, Pant, Jadeja, Ashwin/Ishant/Shami, Ishant/Shami, Bumrah, Siraj.

 

[James]

Ok then, England:

They have been firm, but sensible, and I don’t disagree with much on this occasion.

I would have dropped Burns for Vince and taken a bit of a risk there, but that would have been a nice-to-have from my perspective.

The decision to release Sibley and Crawley for the remainder of the season (and possibly beyond as well) is the correct one.

It is a fair shout to give Dawid Malan at least a three-Test run in the side within the top order, and it also seems like the right time to grant a debut to the promising Saq Mahmood.

There is a big call to make next week on the balance of the side. Do they move Buttler and Ali down one in the order and bring in Pope at six to bolster the batting, meaning that they would be choosing a four-man attack of three seamers and Ali; or do they retain Curran, who offers a fourth seam option but at the expense of a specialist batsman.


For me, this should be the XI —

Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root*
Bairstow
Pope
Buttler+
Ali
Robinson
Mahmood
Anderson


But not everyone will agree with either the composition and/or the order of the lineup above, and I get that completely.

Despite the week away to reflect on things and mentally reboot, and the positive slight change to the squad, I still think England are right up against it here. India’s bowlers are looking irresistible and the Indian team will start as favourites to win and go 2-0 up.

Even a 1-1 or 2-2 drawn series for England would be a “win” result for them at this point.

 

[shortbread]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Hameeds century during the India warm up game was engineered by the Indian management!

 

[Robert]

England should be thanking the weather gods they arent 2-0.

Apart from Root they have been pathetic in both tests.

India have bullied england in all departsments.

new ball, old ball. scoring runs, runs from the tail.

other than some miraculous individual performance from root or Anderson. england aint going to win a test from a collective team effort.

India should be aiming for a 2-0 or 3-0 series win here.

I think England’s bowling attack is collectively good. Robbo has had an excellent start.

The problem is the weakest batting in their history, but that will be shored up by the tough Malan and I back Hameed to come good.

 

[Justcrazy]

Drop Curran , he has not been too good with the bat or ball , play either specialist bowler or batsman instead.

 

[Saurav]

Ok then, England:

They have been firm, but sensible, and I don’t disagree with much on this occasion.

I would have dropped Burns for Vince and taken a bit of a risk there, but that would have been a nice-to-have from my perspective.

The decision to release Sibley and Crawley for the remainder of the season (and possibly beyond as well) is the correct one.

It is a fair shout to give Dawid Malan at least a three-Test run in the side within the top order, and it also seems like the right time to grant a debut to the promising Saq Mahmood.

There is a big call to make next week on the balance of the side. Do they move Buttler and Ali down one in the order and bring in Pope at six to bolster the batting, meaning that they would be choosing a four-man attack of three seamers and Ali; or do they retain Curran, who offers a fourth seam option but at the expense of a specialist batsman.


For me, this should be the XI —

Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root*
Bairstow
Pope
Buttler+
Ali
Robinson
Mahmood
Anderson


But not everyone will agree with either the composition and/or the order of the lineup above, and I get that completely.

Despite the week away to reflect on things and mentally reboot, and the positive slight change to the squad, I still think England are right up against it here. India’s bowlers are looking irresistible and the Indian team will start as favourites to win and go 2-0 up.

Even a 1-1 or 2-2 drawn series for England would be a “win” result for them at this point.

that's a bowler light.Overton for Ali/Pope maybe. He can bat too

 

[Amjid Javed]

Injuries, illness, loss of form and other reasons - England are in all sorts of trouble.

Main thing is India are a much better side then england and for 1st time on a tour in UK they are showing it so far.

 

[MenInG]

Team India, after a stupendous victory against England in the second Test at Lord’s would like to continue the momentum in the third Test too. The stage is set for Virat Kohli and boys at a venue, which has been a happy hunting ground for the Indians for quite some time now. On August 25, both teams will lock horns at Headingley, Leeds, where the Indians have won their last two encounters — in 1986 and 2002.

But interestingly, India have not played a Test here in the last 19 years. But as far as the numbers are concerned, England lead 3-2, while one Test in 1979 was drawn. Cricketnext takes a look at all the encounters played by these teams at this venue:


India vs England, 1952

This was the time when the Indian team was not the strongest. But they still put up a valiant fight, but lost out by seven wickets eventually. Batting first, India scored 293 with Vijay Manjrekar scoring 133. Skipper Vijay Hazare too scored 89. England, in reply scored 334, courtesy valuable knocks from Tom Graveney, Allan Watkins and Godfrey Evans. But in the second innings, a failure of batting saw India score only 165. In the end, England chased down 128 with ease.


India vs England, 1959

India were no match to a strong England side. In the first innings, they only managed to scored 161 runs, with Polly Umrigar top-scoring with 29. In reply, England scored 483/8d with Colin Cowdrey scoring 160. India batted poorly in the second innings too and were bundled out for 149. That meant they lost the match by innings and 173 runs.

India vs England, 1967

This was another easy victory for England. Geoff Boycott’s unbeaten 246 took hosts to 550/4. But a meek show with the bat meant that India were all out for 164. But come the second innings, India scored 510 runs. Skipper MAK Pataudi scored 148, with 87 from Farokh Engineer, 91 from Ajit Wadekar, and 73 from Hanumant Singh. But unfortunately they could not defend a target of 125.

India vs England, 1979

India managed to play out a draw at this venue for the first time. But it was the rain that wiped out the major portion of the match. Riding on Ian Botham’s ton, England scored 270. In reply, India managed to score 223/6.


India vs England, 1986

This was India’s first win at this venue. In the first innings the team scored 272, while dismissing England for only 102. Roger Binny took 5/40 to derail England. In the second innings, Dilip Vengsarkar scored an excellent 102 to take the total to 237. In the last innings, England were dismissed for a paltry 128, as India won the match by 279 runs.


India vs England, 2002

This has to be India’s one of the most famous Test win in England, one which changed the way the team played abroad. Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar and Sourav Ganguly — all scored big tons to take India to 628/8. On the other hand, England were no match and were dismissed for 273 and 309. India comfortably won by an innings and 46 runs.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/...nt-lost-at-headingley-since-1979-4105163.html

 

[sweep_shot]

Advantage India definitely.

India should win the series also.

 

[Ab Fan]

Team India, after a stupendous victory against England in the second Test at Lord’s would like to continue the momentum in the third Test too. The stage is set for Virat Kohli and boys at a venue, which has been a happy hunting ground for the Indians for quite some time now. On August 25, both teams will lock horns at Headingley, Leeds, where the Indians have won their last two encounters — in 1986 and 2002.

But interestingly, India have not played a Test here in the last 19 years. But as far as the numbers are concerned, England lead 3-2, while one Test in 1979 was drawn. Cricketnext takes a look at all the encounters played by these teams at this venue:


India vs England, 1952

This was the time when the Indian team was not the strongest. But they still put up a valiant fight, but lost out by seven wickets eventually. Batting first, India scored 293 with Vijay Manjrekar scoring 133. Skipper Vijay Hazare too scored 89. England, in reply scored 334, courtesy valuable knocks from Tom Graveney, Allan Watkins and Godfrey Evans. But in the second innings, a failure of batting saw India score only 165. In the end, England chased down 128 with ease.


India vs England, 1959

India were no match to a strong England side. In the first innings, they only managed to scored 161 runs, with Polly Umrigar top-scoring with 29. In reply, England scored 483/8d with Colin Cowdrey scoring 160. India batted poorly in the second innings too and were bundled out for 149. That meant they lost the match by innings and 173 runs.

India vs England, 1967

This was another easy victory for England. Geoff Boycott’s unbeaten 246 took hosts to 550/4. But a meek show with the bat meant that India were all out for 164. But come the second innings, India scored 510 runs. Skipper MAK Pataudi scored 148, with 87 from Farokh Engineer, 91 from Ajit Wadekar, and 73 from Hanumant Singh. But unfortunately they could not defend a target of 125.

India vs England, 1979

India managed to play out a draw at this venue for the first time. But it was the rain that wiped out the major portion of the match. Riding on Ian Botham’s ton, England scored 270. In reply, India managed to score 223/6.


India vs England, 1986

This was India’s first win at this venue. In the first innings the team scored 272, while dismissing England for only 102. Roger Binny took 5/40 to derail England. In the second innings, Dilip Vengsarkar scored an excellent 102 to take the total to 237. In the last innings, England were dismissed for a paltry 128, as India won the match by 279 runs.


India vs England, 2002

This has to be India’s one of the most famous Test win in England, one which changed the way the team played abroad. Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar and Sourav Ganguly — all scored big tons to take India to 628/8. On the other hand, England were no match and were dismissed for 273 and 309. India comfortably won by an innings and 46 runs.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/...nt-lost-at-headingley-since-1979-4105163.html

India vs England 2002 is right up there as one of our best overseas win. Winning away in England by an inning and 46 runs is a massive achievement.

 

[Devadwal]

Ravi Ashwin likely to replace Ravindra Jadeja in the playing XI against England for the 3rd Test match.

 

[Smbhayi]

Ravi Ashwin likely to replace Ravindra Jadeja in the playing XI against England for the 3rd Test match.

Good news..

 

[Saurav]

Good news..

Would weaken the already weak batting

Jadeja has been batting better 3,4,5.If anything he deserved a promotion to ensure he doesnt bat with tail all the time.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Need to drop Pujara and play both Ashwin and Jadeja both of their batting combined is better than Pooja's..

 

[Robert]

Ravi Ashwin likely to replace Ravindra Jadeja in the playing XI against England for the 3rd Test match.

Will strengthen the bowling while not really reducing the batting.

 

[Ashmal]

People say why indian team not win a series again England after 2017 but team like Srilanka ,NZ win after that even Pakistan draw series .

Just some fact

Year 2014.
SL win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was draw )
So if this was a 2 test match series india would have won 1-0

Year 2021
NZ win a 2 test series 1-0
India takes 1-0 lead after victory at Lords ( 1st test was a draw)
So if this is also two test match series than india would won by 1-0

I get your point.

But India tours Eng or Aus for 4/5 tests almost every 2-3 years and Indian players get a chance to play more games and get acclimatized to those conditions.

Other teams tour Eng/Aus once in 4-5 years and get to play only 2 match series....there's hardly any chance for players to get used to the conditions....so it's not easy to win for these teams.

Btw...Pakistan did draw 2-2 in Eng in 2016

 

[MP2011]

Will strengthen the bowling while not really reducing the batting.

This.

Jadeja isn't half the bowler Ashwin is in away games, while Ashwin isn't as hopeless a batsman as Jadeja is a bowler in away games.

Home tests of course, Jadeja is on par with Ashwin as far as utility for team is concerned.

 

[Justcrazy]

India will be very hard to beat , England need some exceptional performance to come back in the series.

 

[Mesozoic]

It'll be a stupid decision if they drop Jadeja for Ashwin at no.7. Our batting is already weak with a deadwood middle order and Ashwin at five down will only worsen the situation.

Ideally this should be the side..

Rohit
Rahul
Mayank
Kohli
Rahane
Pant
Jadeja
Shardul
Shami
Siraj
Bumrah

Ashwin should consider himself unlucky that he's playing in a team with a dud MO and four no. 11s ..

 

[Last Monetarist]

I don't think it's wise to drop Jadeja at Headingley knowing that the pitch generally doesn't assist spinners. Furthermore, given the overhead conditions in Leeds, it would be bizarre if India don't select four seamers.

Ashwin should wait to get a chance at the Oval.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not wise enough. Ashwin and four tailenders( with due respect to Bumrah and Shami) is asking for trouble.

 

[mystical man]

I get your point.

But India tours Eng or Aus for 4/5 tests almost every 2-3 years and Indian players get a chance to play more games and get acclimatized to those conditions.

Other teams tour Eng/Aus once in 4-5 years and get to play only 2 match series....there's hardly any chance for players to get used to the conditions....so it's not easy to win for these teams.

Btw...Pakistan did draw 2-2 in Eng in 2016

India beat west indies under 4 days for both of the test matches played between them and the same australia bulldozed pakistan.The current pakistan is struggling against a club level team but we like to draw comparisons for the sake of feeling good living in a world of delusion.

 

[Saurav]

This.

Jadeja isn't half the bowler Ashwin is in away games, while Ashwin isn't as hopeless a batsman as Jadeja is a bowler in away games.

Home tests of course, Jadeja is on par with Ashwin as far as utility for team is concerned.

Jadeja is far better batsman than Ashwin overseas.I suspect you are not even watching Tests regularly

Jadeja is making a 50 every 3rd inning currently,which is better than our middle order.Ashwin should replace one of them,if at all.