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England v India | Match 38, World Cup | Edgbaston | June 30, 2019 | Pre-Match Discussion

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Come on India.

Lets play Pant in place of KL Rahul. Dhoni should bat at 4 above kedar Jhadav. He is totally useless below 4. We got this :srini:

Given how the pitches have become more sluggish as the WC has progressed, I don't see the benefit in keeping Vijay Shankar as a 4th seamer in the team.

On top of that, Hardik Pandya seems to have stepped up and the team can definitely expect him to bowl his 10 overs 80% of the time.

So given all that I'd prefer Pant coming in place of Shankar. The XI would then look like:

1. Rohit Sharma
2. KL Rahul
3. Virat Kohli
4. MS Dhoni
5. Kedar Jhadav
6. Rishab Pant
7. Hardik Pandya
8. Mohd Shami
9. Kuldeep Yadav
10. Jasprit Bumrah
11. Yuzvendra Chahal

Dhoni at 4 will hold up one end if India loses 2 wickets early. Pant and Pandya are good enough to make 100 in the last 8-10 overs. And 30 overs each of pace and spin.

Pretty much all bases covered as well as it's possible.
 
When did I say that Indian team needs my support? Supporting a team is another way of saying that you want them to win a game and not that I want to pay tuition fee for Kohli and Dhoni's kids.

:)))

That was epic!
 
With Kohli at helm, one thing is assured India will be playing professionally. 100% India will be trying to win the match.
 
I´ve a feeling that if it´s a flat track with no assistance for any kind of bowling, and if it´s a clear-your-leg-and-smash-the-ball kind of pitch, then England are running away with this on Sunday. However, if the pitch requires application of brains from the batsmen, and if it assists any type of bowling, whether it be pace or spin bowling, India are in with a serious chance to topple England.
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=149653]Mehndi155[/MENTION] [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Pakistan has always been my first team, England have been second and India third. I also quite like West Indies because I admire Holder and I think this crop of Caribbean cricketers understand the significance of playing for the West Indies. However, I don't feel strongly about their results.

The reason why I am not supporting Pakistan anymore because I refuse to be intoxicated with momentary success. I don't want to indulge myself knowing that it will not last. I did that when we won the Champions Trophy, but then we played like minnows for two years.

I want real progress. Fluking the Champions Trophy as the lowest ranked team or making a half-baked attempt to limp to the SF in this World Cup by hoping that other teams do us favours is not progress. Real progress would be for Pakistan to be ranked in the top 3 consistently in both Tests and ODIs. It is an absolute farce to see a cricket mad country with the second biggest talent pool and the second biggest market for the game languishing at 6th and 7th in ODIs and Tests respectively.

All this talk of "you must support your team through both tough and good times" means nothing. For Pakistan cricket, the good times last no longer than a blink of an eye, while the inconsistency and mediocrity is constant. A cursory look at the rankings of Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in the last 15 odd years, and how much time we have spent at each position sums up where Pakistan cricket is today. Pakistani cricket fans owe Pakistan cricket and PCB absolutely nothing.
 
Would India not support Pak if a Pak win would help them get through? Majority would support rival to get through not just us Pakistani's

An elite team like India is rarely going to bank on the results of a mediocre team like Pakistan to qualify for the semis, because they are going to do so with their own might. More often than not, in every tournament, it takes only a few days for Pakistani fans to start praying that X loses to Y, and A beats C and there is a washout between B and D so that our team can stay in the tournament. Absolutely pathetic.
 
If India has to utilize Rishab Pant in this WC, then it is now! (Not after reaching knockouts!) Management has to make up their mind and Dhoni's ego should not interfere here! Any team will play Rishab Pant in their team with closed eyes especially when we have players like DK, Shankar, Rahul, Jadhav in the squad!
 
England need to win both their games to knock out Pakistan at this stage. If anything, it's the Bangladesh fans who will be praying for an out-and-out India win.

We can still count on NZ to do us a favor :yk
 
An elite team like India is rarely going to bank on the results of a mediocre team like Pakistan to qualify for the semis, because they are going to do so with their own might. More often than not, in every tournament, it takes only a few days for Pakistani fans to start praying that X loses to Y, and A beats C and there is a washout between B and D so that our team can stay in the tournament. Absolutely pathetic.

Let's make it simpler:

Did Indian fans support Pakistan when they were dependant on us to help them qualify for the semis in the CT09?
 
Let's make it simpler:

Did Indian fans support Pakistan when they were dependant on us to help them qualify for the semis in the CT09?

I don't know, I am not Indian and I wasn't on PP at that time. However, the ones who supported Pakistan must have been ashamed with the way Pakistan visibly underperformed against Australia.
 
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Usually I just go through threads and enjoy. Even show posters to my friends and we enjoy the way things happen here. Legendary war of words, predictions come true, comparisions gone wrong, horribly wrong but what never changes is the bashing [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] gets for being a true pak cricket fan.
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=149653]Mehndi155[/MENTION] [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Pakistan has always been my first team, England have been second and India third. I also quite like West Indies because I admire Holder and I think this crop of Caribbean cricketers understand the significance of playing for the West Indies. However, I don't feel strongly about their results.

The reason why I am not supporting Pakistan anymore because I refuse to be intoxicated with momentary success. I don't want to indulge myself knowing that it will not last. I did that when we won the Champions Trophy, but then we played like minnows for two years.

I want real progress. Fluking the Champions Trophy as the lowest ranked team or making a half-baked attempt to limp to the SF in this World Cup by hoping that other teams do us favours is not progress. Real progress would be for Pakistan to be ranked in the top 3 consistently in both Tests and ODIs. It is an absolute farce to see a cricket mad country with the second biggest talent pool and the second biggest market for the game languishing at 6th and 7th in ODIs and Tests respectively.

All this talk of "you must support your team through both tough and good times" means nothing. For Pakistan cricket, the good times last no longer than a blink of an eye, while the inconsistency and mediocrity is constant. A cursory look at the rankings of Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in the last 15 odd years, and how much time we have spent at each position sums up where Pakistan cricket is today. Pakistani cricket fans owe Pakistan cricket and PCB absolutely nothing.

It is clear you will not support Pakistan, then why is Pakistan your FIRST team?

You hate Pakistan (clearly), you have stated you are unfortunate to be Pakistani, so all the talk about Pakistan this Pakistan that - means nothing from you - it's just an excuse for you to bash Pakistan being an Indian.

Just get on with it and make India your first team, and England your second. As for West Indies, don't lie! West Indies was your 3rd favourite teams after WI beat Pakistan in this WC.

You support England because they fluked it to their ODI ranking by playing on predominately flat wickets. Tomorrow if Australia are #1 and SA #2, your favourite teams will change again. You are a glory supporter and this is precisely why you land yourself in a mess on PP, you continue to change the goalposts.

If Pakistan won persistently for the next 4 years, you would claim it's all a fluke anyway! Where Pakistan is #1 in rankings, you dismiss the format! When Pakistani players are in the top 5 rankings, you claim the players must perform against India! When Pakistan do win, you claim it's a fluke.

Pakistan is not your #1 team, it never was - so don't come out with essays trying to convince otherwise.
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=149653]Mehndi155[/MENTION] [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Pakistan has always been my first team, England have been second and India third. I also quite like West Indies because I admire Holder and I think this crop of Caribbean cricketers understand the significance of playing for the West Indies. However, I don't feel strongly about their results.

The reason why I am not supporting Pakistan anymore because I refuse to be intoxicated with momentary success. I don't want to indulge myself knowing that it will not last. I did that when we won the Champions Trophy, but then we played like minnows for two years.

I want real progress. Fluking the Champions Trophy as the lowest ranked team or making a half-baked attempt to limp to the SF in this World Cup by hoping that other teams do us favours is not progress. Real progress would be for Pakistan to be ranked in the top 3 consistently in both Tests and ODIs. It is an absolute farce to see a cricket mad country with the second biggest talent pool and the second biggest market for the game languishing at 6th and 7th in ODIs and Tests respectively.

All this talk of "you must support your team through both tough and good times" means nothing. For Pakistan cricket, the good times last no longer than a blink of an eye, while the inconsistency and mediocrity is constant. A cursory look at the rankings of Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in the last 15 odd years, and how much time we have spent at each position sums up where Pakistan cricket is today. Pakistani cricket fans owe Pakistan cricket and PCB absolutely nothing.

I despise Sarfraz and the timid characters in the side aren't my cup of tea either, due to the lack of star quality (which we have missed from the 90s and early 2000s), however that doesn't mean I should resort to switching my allegiance.

Likewise with Arsenal, I will always support them through tough and good times, even if they were relegated from the PL!

Before the SA game, you said it would be "insufferable" for you, if Pakistan were to go on to beat them and you used the same adjective prior to the NZ game as well. I'm not saying you're an Indian or Indian supporter, but the way your portray yourself is not a good look. Like yourself, I'm also a well-wisher of Indian cricket but I will never put them above Pakistan in a WC.

We can all have a laugh and bash this side in bilaterals, but in a WC, get behind your team for goodness sake!
 
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It is clear you will not support Pakistan, then why is Pakistan your FIRST team?

You hate Pakistan (clearly), you have stated you are unfortunate to be Pakistani, so all the talk about Pakistan this Pakistan that - means nothing from you - it's just an excuse for you to bash Pakistan being an Indian.

Just get on with it and make India your first team, and England your second. As for West Indies, don't lie! West Indies was your 3rd favourite teams after WI beat Pakistan in this WC.

You support England because they fluked it to their ODI ranking by playing on predominately flat wickets. Tomorrow if Australia are #1 and SA #2, your favourite teams will change again. You are a glory supporter and this is precisely why you land yourself in a mess on PP, you continue to change the goalposts.

If Pakistan won persistently for the next 4 years, you would claim it's all a fluke anyway! Where Pakistan is #1 in rankings, you dismiss the format! When Pakistani players are in the top 5 rankings, you claim the players must perform against India! When Pakistan do win, you claim it's a fluke.

Pakistan is not your #1 team, it never was - so don't come out with essays trying to convince otherwise.

Pakistan, England and India are my three teams (in order) in general, but as I have stated several times, I refuse to support Pakistan in this particular tournament. Coming into a World Cup as the 6th ranked side and losing 25 out of the last 30 matches is no way to prepare for a World Cup.

England's number 1 ODI ranking is not a fluke. The revamped their team after the 2015 World Cup and beat every team on the way to achieve the number 1 ranking. They not only won at home but also beat the likes of Australia and New Zealand away. If Pakistan were to perform consistently for 4 years and achieve the number 1 ranking by beating all teams along the way, I won't call it fluke.

Forget number one, I will be more generous. Do you think Pakistan have it in them to go into the 2023 World Cup as the second or third ranked team? I am willing to bet that Pakistan will not be in the top 3 come 2023, and that is why I refused to be sucked into the temporary joy of qualifying tor the semis. As a true supporter of Pakistan, do you think have enough confidence in this team to bet that they will be one of the top three teams going into the next World Cup? That is the consistency that I want Pakistan cricket to achieve with their second biggest talent pool and market in the game.

As far as supporting Australia and South Africa are concerned, I have never supported these two teams regardless of their state at any given time. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
 
Pakistan, England and India are my three teams (in order) in general, but as I have stated several times, I refuse to support Pakistan in this particular tournament. Coming into a World Cup as the 6th ranked side and losing 25 out of the last 30 matches is no way to prepare for a World Cup.

England's number 1 ODI ranking is not a fluke. The revamped their team after the 2015 World Cup and beat every team on the way to achieve the number 1 ranking. They not only won at home but also beat the likes of Australia and New Zealand away. If Pakistan were to perform consistently for 4 years and achieve the number 1 ranking by beating all teams along the way, I won't call it fluke.

Forget number one, I will be more generous. Do you think Pakistan have it in them to go into the 2023 World Cup as the second or third ranked team? I am willing to bet that Pakistan will not be in the top 3 come 2023, and that is why I refused to be sucked into the temporary joy of qualifying tor the semis. As a true supporter of Pakistan, do you think have enough confidence in this team to bet that they will be one of the top three teams going into the next World Cup? That is the consistency that I want Pakistan cricket to achieve with their second biggest talent pool and market in the game.

As far as supporting Australia and South Africa are concerned, I have never supported these two teams regardless of their state at any given time. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

Just answer the question, if if you refuse to support Pakistan, why is Pakistan your FIRST team?
 
I despise Sarfraz and the timid characters in the side aren't my cup of tea either, due to the lack of star quality (which we have missed from the 90s and early 2000s), however that doesn't mean I should resort to switching my allegiance.

Likewise with Arsenal, I will always support them through tough and good times, even if they were relegated from the PL!

Before the SA game, you said it would be "insufferable" for you, if Pakistan were to go on to beat them and you used the same adjective prior to the NZ game as well. I'm not saying you're an Indian or Indian supporter, but the way your portray yourself is not a good look. Like yourself, I'm also a well-wisher of Indian cricket but I will never put them above Pakistan in a WC.

We can all have a laugh and bash this side in bilaterals, but in a WC, get behind your team for goodness sake!

The reason why I don't support Pakistan in this World Cup is because I believe that is necessary for Pakistan to crash out in the group stage if they are going to strive for change. The possibility of that happening are low anyway, but if we somehow manage to sneak in the semifinals, absolutely nothing will change. Sarfraz will be retained as captain, Mickey will be retained as coach, Fakhar Zaman will continue to hack at the top of the order and Shadab will continue to masquerade himself as a frontline spinner.

Just like the Champions Trophy, Pakistan will get back to its comfort zone, pretend everything is okay with the team, take pride in how unpredictable and mercurial they are, and keep getting bashed by teams while maintaining mediocre rankings. Fast forward four years, and we will enter the 2023 World Cup as a 6th or 7th ranked side and will be making parallels with 1992 again.

Pakistan can only make genuine attempts to change things when it recognised that it has a problem and stops celebrating mediocrity.
 
They are not my first team in this particular World Cup.

No, you mentioned in another thread Pak is your first team in this WC.

I don't think you understand the question. Given your vitriol towards Pakistan, LONG before this WC, how comes Pakistan is your First team? Are you actually trying to tell me Pakistan was your first team in the CT17 tournament?

How can someone like you who hates Pakistan, claims to be unfortunate to be Pakistani, ever have Pakistan as their first team?
 
I don't think you understand the question. Given your vitriol towards Pakistan, LONG before this WC, how comes Pakistan is your First team? Are you actually trying to tell me Pakistan was your first team in the CT17 tournament?

How can someone like you who hates Pakistan, claims to be unfortunate to be Pakistani, ever have Pakistan as their first team?

Because I don't have a choice. It was my bad luck to be born in this country and because I fell in love with the game, I naturally grew up supporting my country. I realised the true worth of this country and its team as an adult, but it was too late for me because the love for this team was deeply ingrained in me. Truth to be told, it is hard for me to not support them in this World Cup but I have managed to resist it so far.
 
They are not my first team in this particular World Cup.

You can criticize your team to whatever extent, but I don't think it is fair to call that it is not my first team! If India (of 90s) and Bangladesh (of last decade) did not receive the kind of support from their people they wouldn't have progressed to this level!
 
How can you pick and choose when to support your team?

No doubt Pak teams do run you through the mixer, the highs and the lows, the extremes of emotion but no matter hard I try, I cant bring myself to not support the team. At worst might not expect much but if they do well, always take pleasure in their performance. As a fan, it's in your DNA and not a switch which you can turn on/off.

Going by that logic, South Africa must by right up your street, always approaching big tournament on back of good form.
 
Because I don't have a choice. It was my bad luck to be born in this country and because I fell in love with the game, I naturally grew up supporting my country. I realised the true worth of this country and its team as an adult, but it was too late for me because the love for this team was deeply ingrained in me. Truth to be told, it is hard for me to not support them in this World Cup but I have managed to resist it so far.

Frankly speaking your response is all over the place. Had you said Pakistan is your 8th team, or last team, then your response might make some sense, but to have Pakistan as your First team, even in this WC, then belittle every single performance of Pakistan while claiming "it is hard for me to not support them in this World Cup" makes no sense what so ever.

If you are not an Indian, then you are a grade A Troll.
 
The reason why I don't support Pakistan in this World Cup is because I believe that is necessary for Pakistan to crash out in the group stage if they are going to strive for change. The possibility of that happening are low anyway, but if we somehow manage to sneak in the semifinals, absolutely nothing will change. Sarfraz will be retained as captain, Mickey will be retained as coach, Fakhar Zaman will continue to hack at the top of the order and Shadab will continue to masquerade himself as a frontline spinner.

Just like the Champions Trophy, Pakistan will get back to its comfort zone, pretend everything is okay with the team, take pride in how unpredictable and mercurial they are, and keep getting bashed by teams while maintaining mediocre rankings. Fast forward four years, and we will enter the 2023 World Cup as a 6th or 7th ranked side and will be making parallels with 1992 again.

Pakistan can only make genuine attempts to change things when it recognised that it has a problem and stops celebrating mediocrity.

I hold the same concerns for Pakistan, concerning succession planning/rebuilding , as they will continue with the same bunch of players (including the captain) because PCB will unfortunately live on past glory/success.

Going by history, even when Pakistan has had a poor showing in ICC competitions, the PCB has failed to enforce the necessary changes. For e.g. Misbah was allowed to continue leading the side after an appalling 2013 CT, which was Pakistan's worst showing in an ICC tournament, losing every single game. Also when our team lost to Ireland and subsequently got knocked out of the group stages, I didn't see no revolution!

To assume the wake-up call will arrive for our doomed PCB with a group stage exit from this tournament is just naive because going by history, it won't happen until we have competent cricket board with a vision and drive to succeed, but I have full faith in Wasim Khan to restructure Pakistan cricket for the greater good of the team's horizons, if he's given time.
 
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[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] So essentially you want us to follow the trend that South Africa and England have set? They're doing well atm - India aside the rankings have been up and down for many teams, you and I know when it comes to the fore, the better teams rise! Even Sri Lanka are better than England who have been no.1 for how long now?
 
[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=149653]Mehndi155[/MENTION] [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Pakistan has always been my first team, England have been second and India third. I also quite like West Indies because I admire Holder and I think this crop of Caribbean cricketers understand the significance of playing for the West Indies. However, I don't feel strongly about their results.

The reason why I am not supporting Pakistan anymore because I refuse to be intoxicated with momentary success. I don't want to indulge myself knowing that it will not last. I did that when we won the Champions Trophy, but then we played like minnows for two years.

I want real progress. Fluking the Champions Trophy as the lowest ranked team or making a half-baked attempt to limp to the SF in this World Cup by hoping that other teams do us favours is not progress. Real progress would be for Pakistan to be ranked in the top 3 consistently in both Tests and ODIs. It is an absolute farce to see a cricket mad country with the second biggest talent pool and the second biggest market for the game languishing at 6th and 7th in ODIs and Tests respectively.

All this talk of "you must support your team through both tough and good times" means nothing. For Pakistan cricket, the good times last no longer than a blink of an eye, while the inconsistency and mediocrity is constant. A cursory look at the rankings of Pakistan in Tests and ODIs in the last 15 odd years, and how much time we have spent at each position sums up where Pakistan cricket is today. Pakistani cricket fans owe Pakistan cricket and PCB absolutely nothing.
Suppose Pakistan gets to the final, will they deserve it?
 
How can you pick and choose when to support your team?

No doubt Pak teams do run you through the mixer, the highs and the lows, the extremes of emotion but no matter hard I try, I cant bring myself to not support the team. At worst might not expect much but if they do well, always take pleasure in their performance. As a fan, it's in your DNA and not a switch which you can turn on/off.

Going by that logic, South Africa must by right up your street, always approaching big tournament on back of good form.

You are right.

I'm a life long Gooner and have supported them through thick and thin.
The last 15 or so years have been devastating but my support for them has not wavered, not even once.
Yes of course I criticise the players, the owners, the coaches etc but I still support the team 100pct..

Isn't that what supporting your team is all about? It's in the heart
 
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Let's make it simpler:

Did Indian fans support Pakistan when they were dependant on us to help them qualify for the semis in the CT09?
So if India underperforms,guess it will not be incorrect
 
I see that ground is already being laid for "fluke victory" if we do end up winning the WC. I wonder why these "flukes" never happen for teams like England.
 
India will play to win no matter what.
You want to go in to the Semi's with momentum and having beaten one of the firm pre-tournament favourites..
 
Wasn’t the whole point of this format that whoever’s makes it to the semis deserves to be there? No easy group everyone plays eachother..in a league sort of format you will always depend on other teams to help you out like in the epl if you are a Chelsea fan you’d be hoping obv other teams do you a favour and beat the top ones ..in this scenario where pak had to play it’s harder games earlier while England later it’s not about counting on other teams to help us out perhaps if the schedule was flipped England would have had to count on other teams to beat us
 
So one question, seeing the current performance of the Pak side can you honestly say CT was a fluke? Because every ODI Pak lost post CT caused the CT to be labelled as fluke by Indians and a certain "Pakistani". If defeat can cause it to be a fluke, then victory will cause it to be not-a-fluke. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
I want to bite the bullet and want England win this one against India to throw Pakistan out. Despite playing the last two games well Pakistan's fielding has been below mediocre and they don't really deserve to win this one.
 
So one question, seeing the current performance of the Pak side can you honestly say CT was a fluke? Because every ODI Pak lost post CT caused the CT to be labelled as fluke by Indians and a certain "Pakistani". If defeat can cause it to be a fluke, then victory will cause it to be not-a-fluke. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Beating lanka and three contenders to win the whole thing is not a fluke lol
 
Wasn’t the whole point of this format that whoever’s makes it to the semis deserves to be there? No easy group everyone plays eachother..in a league sort of format you will always depend on other teams to help you out like in the epl if you are a Chelsea fan you’d be hoping obv other teams do you a favour and beat the top ones ..in this scenario where pak had to play it’s harder games earlier while England later it’s not about counting on other teams to help us out perhaps if the schedule was flipped England would have had to count on other teams to beat us

and if our game against Sri Lanka hadn't been rained off we may now be sitting on 8 points as opposed to 7 without having to rely on other results...

The loss to the Windies was the worst possible result, beating England was no fluke and nor was beating South Africa and New Zealand... We were by no means humiliated against the Aussies and the only other bad loss was to India..

So all in all, if we win our last two games and manage to get in to the Semi's it will be on merit
 
I want to bite the bullet and want England win this one against India to throw Pakistan out. Despite playing the last two games well Pakistan's fielding has been below mediocre and they don't really deserve to win this one.

So you decide what Pakistan deserves or not?
 
I want to bite the bullet and want England win this one against India to throw Pakistan out. Despite playing the last two games well Pakistan's fielding has been below mediocre and they don't really deserve to win this one.

Even after dropping 7 catches we won by 49 runs. This shows how much we deserve to go to the semis
 
and if our game against Sri Lanka hadn't been rained off we may now be sitting on 8 points as opposed to 7 without having to rely on other results...

The loss to the Windies was the worst possible result, beating England was no fluke and nor was beating South Africa and New Zealand... We were by no means humiliated against the Aussies and the only other bad loss was to India..

So all in all, if we win our last two games and manage to get in to the Semi's it will be on merit

Yes I agree and I believe any team that reaches the semi in this format deserves to be there..there’s no question if pak make it to semi they will deserve it sure we messed up against windies but things like this happen in a long format such as this we have already beaten the hot favourites England and an unbeaten nz and to make it we would have to beat afg and bdesh so it would show that not only have we beaten two good teams but also have been consistent to have beaten the majority of the mid table teams so I don’t get this whole question of if pak make it to semis will they deserve it
 
Jason Roy will hand England a much-needed boost if he’s passed fit to face India as the hosts look to steady the nerves after successive defeats, according to vice-captain Jos Buttler.

Roy, who smashed 153 from 121 balls against Bangladesh earlier in the tournament, has not featured since pulling a hamstring against the West Indies two weeks ago.

The opener missed the win against Afghanistan and defeats to Sri Lanka and Australia, with James Vince taking his place, but he was back practising on Friday morning at Edgbaston.

“He looks pretty good. I think he has been progressing nicely so it is nice to see him back in the nets, back in the group and taking part,” said Buttler.

“I’m sure the medical team will know more than I do but he looks pretty good. He has been a very important player for us a long time.

“We know we can perform better as a group and Jason is a fantastic player to have available. It would be a boost to have him play.”

Sunday’s match is crucial to England’s campaign, with back-to-back defeats knocking them down to fourth in the table, just one point ahead of Bangladesh and Pakistan.

However, a win for India would see them secure a semi-final place and they are full of confidence after usurping England as the world’s top ranked ODI side.

Lose here and the pressure will increase ahead of England’s final group game against New Zealand but Buttler is keeping a cool head.

“Expectation is something England sides have not always had. I have played in England sides where the expectations were very low,” he said.

“The mood in the camp is still very good. Naturally, there is some external pressure and it would be naïve to say we have got our blinkers on.

“We just have to accept those things. We know they are going to happen. We know the position we are in, nothing has changed. When we play our best cricket, we are in a position to win.

“We have the opportunity to put things right and everyone has turned up with a smile on their face.

“Everyone here wants us to do well and, being such a good side, when we don’t perform at our best, it is frustrating. But there has been lots of goodwill so there are good signs for me.”

Edgbaston is expected to be a sea of colour and a cauldron of noise on Sunday, with as many Indian fans as English ones expected to pack into the stands.

And Buttler has promised both teams will live up to expectations.

“This is the reason we play the game,” he added.

“We know, favourites or underdogs, that all these are hard matches – especially against India, who are brilliant. We know we need to play better and we are capable. We look forward to playing a strong India team.

“Pressure is privileged sometimes and we are in a very privileged position. These are the games we will look back on or look forward to at the start of your career and hope to be involved in.

“We know the support India will get. Wherever they go in the world it’s the same but we hope to have some great support as well. It is going to be a great game.”
 
So you decide what Pakistan deserves or not?

I decide or not even if Pakistan makes it into the semis(which is unlikely) against India we all know who is gonna win :vk2

So I'd rather be realistic and not have another face-off against India.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't understand your logic. A true fan is supposed to support their team through thick and thin. It's a general rule of thumb in every sport. And how is it pathetic relying on other teams? It happens in many sports, Liverpool fans were relying on their arch-rivals Manchester United to beat Manchester City for their own chances. Yes, Pakistan overall a mediocre team and our problems are deeper than just lack of talent, it's the whole infrastrucutre. But the World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of any sport, and I don't know why anyone would not want to win. Besides, even if Pakistan don't make the next round, I can't see much changing anyway, so it's better off supporting our team, flaws and all!


On topic, I want India to beat England. In an ideal situation, both England and Pakistan would qualify (I am a British Pakistani) but that seems unlikely
 
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I fully expect England to beat India this Sunday even though I want Pakistan to go through to the semis. There will be tactical plays for positions from now on and I fully expect India to exploit this. Their think tanks would be working in overdrive from today after the SL SA game.

For the gamblers keep your eyes on the odds on for an England win. :inzi2
 
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[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] So essentially you want us to follow the trend that South Africa and England have set? They're doing well atm - India aside the rankings have been up and down for many teams, you and I know when it comes to the fore, the better teams rise! Even Sri Lanka are better than England who have been no.1 for how long now?

I want Pakistan to mimic India, because not only do we share cultural similarities, we have the second biggest talent pool and market for the sport. In addition, both countries share a passion for the sport that doesn’t exist in any country bar Bangladesh.

India have been a terrific team post 90’s. They have won trophies and they have also performed consistently. Yes they have had a few blips every now and then (2006-2007, 2012, 2015), but they have consistently maintained top 3 positions in Tests and ODIs.

Pakistan are too comfortable with mediocre rankings in Tests and ODIs because we take excessive pride in the notion that we are unpredictable, mercurial, cornered tigers etc. that don’t mean anything.

Pakistan’s number one priority from 15 July 2019 onwards should be to achieve top 3 ranking in both Tests and ODIs by 1 January 2023. It is certainly doable with proper planning.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't understand your logic. A true fan is supposed to support their team through thick and thin. It's a general rule of thumb in every sport. And how is it pathetic relying on other teams? It happens in many sports, Liverpool fans were relying on their arch-rivals Manchester United to beat Manchester City for their own chances. Yes, Pakistan overall a mediocre team and our problems are deeper than just lack of talent, it's the whole infrastrucutre. But the World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of any sport, and I don't know why anyone would not want to win. Besides, even if Pakistan don't make the next round, I can't see much changing anyway, so it's better off supporting our team, flaws and all!


On topic, I want India to beat England. In an ideal situation, both England and Pakistan would qualify (I am a British Pakistani) but that seems unlikely

Sometimes, you have to hope that your team hits rock bottom so that it triggers a transformation. For example, during Wenger’s last few years, quite a few Arsenal fans were happy to see Arsenal miss out on UCL qualification so that the board presses the panic button.

That time has come for Pakistan cricket as well. If we make the semifinals absolutely nothing will change and we will be back to square one.
 
Depends on the semifinal, but we surely don’t deserve to be in the semifinal in the first place.

How you propose we get what we deserve i.e humiliation? Let me tell you all this rankings thing is **.Sports are not played on paper.I agree that we have lot of problems in our cricket structure but let's not take credit away where its due.Yes we were supposed to lose but people who called our captain names and abused him and even used a derogatory term about fired everyone up.When it comes to protecting our respect no one can beat us.That we saw on Feb 27 also.You don't get to decide what we decide and what we don't.For that someone more knowledgeable is there who is doing his job perfectly.I know one thing if you put your heart and mind into something the universe will now in front of you.Thats what this team is doing.We didn't whine about playing in UAE,missing playing in front of home crowds.Your so called deserving team didn't even have to suffer due to rain and all was in their hands.
 
How you propose we get what we deserve i.e humiliation? Let me tell you all this rankings thing is **.Sports are not played on paper.I agree that we have lot of problems in our cricket structure but let's not take credit away where its due.Yes we were supposed to lose but people who called our captain names and abused him and even used a derogatory term about fired everyone up.When it comes to protecting our respect no one can beat us.That we saw on Feb 27 also.You don't get to decide what we decide and what we don't.For that someone more knowledgeable is there who is doing his job perfectly.I know one thing if you put your heart and mind into something the universe will now in front of you.Thats what this team is doing.We didn't whine about playing in UAE,missing playing in front of home crowds.Your so called deserving team didn't even have to suffer due to rain and all was in their hands.

This is the mindset that we need to get rid off to become an elite team. “Protecting our pride”, “put your heart and mind”, “fearless cricket” etc. mean absolutely nothing.

We are a 6th ranked team that has played like minnows in the last two years. We won the CT and rested on our laurels and pretended that everything is fine before we got a reality check.

In this World Cup, we completely derailed our campaign by getting hammered like no tomorrow by WI which nuked our NRR, and now we are limping on on one leg and hoping that not only do we win our last 2 games, other results go our way as well. That is the reality of our sorry situation and there is no need to romanticize it.

Pakistani fans have the ability to find sliver-lining even on doomsday, but we must change our attitude if we are to improve.
 
England whining will ensure that they will get a flat track which won't help any bowler in the world. Pretty sure that will happen in the semis as well. So i want India to load the side with DK and Pant and be prepared for a battathon.
 
I am sure that India will play with only one aim and that to win.
Now if that benefits Pakistan then so be it.
Also loosing to England will assure India will not be playing 2-3 position semis rather then 1-4
But still 3 games to go and anything can happen
 
Those saying India might wilfully underperform don't understand that professional sportsmen are hyper-competitive individuals. They're only bothered about playing to their max abilities & winning. Besides, India haven't made it to the semis yet. Beating England & securing a semis spot will be the only thing on their mind on Sunday.
 
One can only laugh at the delusions of our so-called experts on tv. Firstly, India are too professional to worry about which other teams will qualify for the semis. Secondly, even if we assume that they do, they would much rather face Pakistan in the knockouts instead of England, who are far more capable of beating them.
 
Depends on the semifinal, but we surely don’t deserve to be in the semifinal in the first place.
Okay thanks for answering.

Yes I do agree we played awful cricket in our initial matches but don’t you think we have done okay/decent for a #6 ranked team to beat England, South Africa and New Zealand?

England are 2nd ranked, New Zealand 3rd and South Africa 5th...
 
Okay thanks for answering.

Yes I do agree we played awful cricket in our initial matches but don’t you think we have done okay/decent for a #6 ranked team to beat England, South Africa and New Zealand?

England are 2nd ranked, New Zealand 3rd and South Africa 5th...

I think our performance has been on par with our ranking. We are not at the bottom, but we haven’t breezed into the semis either. We are hovering just outside the top 4 because the 5th ranked side have played way below their capacity.
 
Conspiracy theorists are confident about Pakistan defeating India in semis because of "momentum". Same people expect India to underperform against England & lose momentum!
 
I think our performance has been on par with our ranking. We are not at the bottom, but we haven’t breezed into the semis either. We are hovering just outside the top 4 because the 5th ranked side have played way below their capacity.

It is really surprising to see South Africa underperforming like this.

I expected better from them and Faf’s captaincy.
 
It is really surprising to see South Africa underperforming like this.

I expected better from them and Faf’s captaincy.

The lack of impactful performances from de Kock and Rabada have him them hard. Players like du Plessis are over the hill and Amla never had it anyway, but their young players have let them down.
 
Pakistan, England and India are my three teams (in order) in general, but as I have stated several times, I refuse to support Pakistan in this particular tournament. Coming into a World Cup as the 6th ranked side and losing 25 out of the last 30 matches is no way to prepare for a World Cup.

England's number 1 ODI ranking is not a fluke. The revamped their team after the 2015 World Cup and beat every team on the way to achieve the number 1 ranking. They not only won at home but also beat the likes of Australia and New Zealand away. If Pakistan were to perform consistently for 4 years and achieve the number 1 ranking by beating all teams along the way, I won't call it fluke.

Forget number one, I will be more generous. Do you think Pakistan have it in them to go into the 2023 World Cup as the second or third ranked team? I am willing to bet that Pakistan will not be in the top 3 come 2023, and that is why I refused to be sucked into the temporary joy of qualifying tor the semis. As a true supporter of Pakistan, do you think have enough confidence in this team to bet that they will be one of the top three teams going into the next World Cup? That is the consistency that I want Pakistan cricket to achieve with their second biggest talent pool and market in the game.

As far as supporting Australia and South Africa are concerned, I have never supported these two teams regardless of their state at any given time. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

I don't get that argument at all. You support your team whether they are no 1 or no 50, whether they are playing above their potential or below their potential, whether their dip in form lasts 1 week or 20 years. It's your team that you have chosen, consistent or not.

Did you not jump in front of TV when Haris hit those sixes against NZ? What kind of fan will you be if you didn't?
 
I don't get that argument at all. You support your team whether they are no 1 or no 50, whether they are playing above their potential or below their potential, whether their dip in form lasts 1 week or 20 years. It's your team that you have chosen, consistent or not.

Did you not jump in front of TV when Haris hit those sixes against NZ? What kind of fan will you be if you didn't?

I have witnessed enough setbacks as a Pakistani cricket fan to get excited over momentary success. Our disastrous performance post the Champions Trophy was the final nail in my coffin.

As a result, I only care for long term success and excellence that is achieved through a process, and these things are reflected in the rankings. I will jump in front of the tv when I see Pakistan in the top 3 in Test and ODI rankings over a significant period of time.
 
The lack of impactful performances from de Kock and Rabada have him them hard. Players like du Plessis are over the hill and Amla never had it anyway, but their young players have let them down.
Yeah they will have to analyze where it has gone wrong, drop some non-performing players eg. Amla, Markram and they should appoint van der Dussen as their captain and I believe they will be a better unit for the next WC.
 
So far ...

England have defeated SA, BANG, AFG & WI

Pakistan have defeated SA, NZ & ENG

Apparently, England deserve to be in the semis and we dont. :dw
 
I have witnessed enough setbacks as a Pakistani cricket fan to get excited over momentary success. Our disastrous performance post the Champions Trophy was the final nail in my coffin.

As a result, I only care for long term success and excellence that is achieved through a process, and these things are reflected in the rankings. I will jump in front of the tv when I see Pakistan in the top 3 in Test and ODI rankings over a significant period of time.

Hmmm... this whole logic escapes me. But to each his own I suppose.

On point, I don't think CT was a fluke. I do think what happened after that game for two years made the whole win look like a fluke. That team was building towards something good, but needed a merciless overhaul after the final to continue momentum. That didn't happen.
 
Listened to Buttler's press conference. What a calm, soft spoken articulate person. Contrast this with brash and rude Irishman who jumped ship and joined England. I hope Buttler takes over after the WC.
 
All this talk about 10 points 11 points and NRR and this and that .... I have a strong feeling SL is going to quietly get 3 wins ( against SA,WI,Ind) and reach 12 points and get in as 4th SF team along with Aus/India/NZ.
NZ will defeat Eng and get 13 points. .
All teams with 11 or 10 points then can decide who goes to Heathrow airport first based on NRR.:moyo2

This aged well
 
It is advantageous to Pak that India is not yet guaranteed a place in the semi's. For this reason I expect them to play their top side versus England. At this stage India just wants to get through, they'll worry about the semi final opposition after the England match if they win. England will fancy their chances as well, it should be a really good match.
 
Sometimes, you have to hope that your team hits rock bottom so that it triggers a transformation. For example, during Wenger’s last few years, quite a few Arsenal fans were happy to see Arsenal miss out on UCL qualification so that the board presses the panic button.

That time has come for Pakistan cricket as well. If we make the semifinals absolutely nothing will change and we will be back to square one.
You think if we don’t reach semis a change will happen? Did you see any change after 2003 & 2007 WC debacle. Pakistan is an inconsistent team that will continue to blow hot and cold so with long periods of mediocrity with occasional period of brilliance son just enjoy the ride without taking anything too seriously
 
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/48790846

Cricket World Cup: How England can return to winning ways
By Stephan Shemilt

Believe



In case there is any confusion, England are still in the World Cup.

Amid the gloom that has greeted their back-to-back defeats, or the pessimism surrounding the scale of the task that must be undertaken to reach the semi-finals, you could be forgiven for thinking Eoin Morgan's men have already been skewered.

Yes, given the option of Pakistan's run-in of games with Afghanistan and Bangladesh, or England's final two fixtures against India and New Zealand, you would take the former, and that's not considering the fact that Bangladesh themselves or even Sri Lanka could still pip the hosts.

But England's fate remains in their own hands. They can still become world champions. Here's how.

England beginning this World Cup as favourites and the top-ranked team was not a fluke.

They have not lost a bilateral series for more than two years and their last home defeat was in 2015. They are the best one-day team the country has ever produced, a golden generation.

But pressure and expectancy can do funny things. In the goldfish bowl of a tournament you are expected to win, belief can be eroded quickly. In the aftermath of Tuesday's loss to Australia, Morgan himself admitted that confidence has taken a hit.

It is Morgan who holds the key to restoring England to their old self. This is a team formed on his vision and the Irishman is the only part of its leadership that has remained constant since the debacle of the last World Cup.

Just recently, the skipper has made an interesting study. Usually cooler than the other side of the pillow, he has been increasingly tetchy when addressing journalists, especially after the defeat at Lord's.

He may be channelling his inner Sir Alex Ferguson and protecting his players, who will now look to him to pump the tyres before Sunday's game against India at an Edgbaston that will feel more like Eden Gardens.

"Eoin has to remind his players they are still good players, but also analyse what they are not doing well," said former England captain Alec Stewart. "There might be a few rows or raised voices, but that doesn't matter because it is about trying to win the World Cup."

Michael Vaughan, another ex-England skipper, added: "What Morgan has done for England's one-day team over four years has been remarkable, but he will be judged on what he does before Sunday. Now is the pressure time and we expect the leadership to step up."

Adapt


It is unfair to suggest England can only bully their way to victory on flat pitches when fours and sixes are thrown around like confetti.

Yes, they have butchered attacks on wickets resembling strips of concrete, but they have also won series all around the world. This past winter, they triumphed in Sri Lanka in a series where 300 was passed only once.

But it is also true that their defeats tend to come when batting needs as much brains as brawn. That has never been more evident than in the World Cup loss to Sri Lanka at Headingley, where England did not know how to chase down 233 on a slowing surface against an intelligent attack.

The bowlers have also been guilty. On a sticky morning at Lord's, they banged the ball in too short, rather than finding the fuller length that would later serve Australia so well.

In this wet summer, with groundsmen having to prepare multiple pitches at the same venue, it might be that 350 is not approached by any team for the rest of the World Cup. England must adapt.

"Somehow, they have to find a way of batting on these wickets," said Vaughan. "They have to find a method.

"They certainly have it in them to bounce back, but they have to assess the conditions better than they did at Headingley and Lord's. If they think the only way they can win is by blasting a massive score, they will be undone."

Bat first

This could also come under the banner of adapting, but because it involves a shift from England's favoured method of winning one-dayers over the past four years, it deserves more explaining.

Put simply, England love to bat second. They are good at it, too. How many times have we been told that Morgan's men can "chase any target".

So happy are they in pursuit that, during the series against Pakistan that preceded the World Cup, Morgan won the toss and batted, just to replicate the scenario when the opposition won the toss and put them in.

It is far too simplistic to say that England's three defeats have come batting second, so therefore they must change. There is more to it than that.

Firstly, England are very, very good frontrunners. Twice they have crunched ODI record totals batting first.

Secondly, in tight games, where the stakes are high, the pressure of a chase can play tricks with a batsman's pysche. Yes, the conditions meant England were right to field first against Australia, but they were always going to feel the heat of Mitchell Starc in the second innings.

What might happen on Sunday if England are in a tight chase at Edgbaston, their World Cup on the line, with Jasprit Bumrah being roared on by the vocal India supporters?

"I'd like to see them bat first and get a big score on the board," said England fast bowler James Anderson. "It feels like when they are chasing, they've gone a bit safe, a bit careful.

"I want to see them bat first and go for it, just take the shackles off."

Get the team right




If this one sounds obvious, it is worth remembering that there can be many variables to getting your best XI on the park.

Chief amongst them is fitness, with Jason Roy's hamstring currently the most crucial body part in an England World Cup campaign since David Beckham's metatarsal.

If Roy is fit, the resumption of his incredibly successful opening partnership with Jonny Bairstow will give England a huge boost.

If playing him would be a gamble, then England must decide how much they are willing to risk. And if he is ruled out entirely, they must decide whether or not to stick with James Vince, who somehow managed to fit his trademark beauty and the beast innings into just two balls against Australia.

Would it be folly to expect Vince, who has reached 50 only four times in 41 international innings, to suddenly produce in such pressurised circumstances? If not Vince, who? How costly Alex Hales' indiscretion seems now.

"Vince is a talented player, but he's not getting numbers," said Vaughan. "He has nothing in the bank to fall back on. I wouldn't be playing Vince on Sunday."

Joe Root, who made a century standing in for Roy against West Indies at Southampton, is one option. So too Moeen Ali, who has scored hundreds opening for England in ODIs in the past.

But it is not just the opening spot where England must consider personnel and fitness.

In the period between World Cups, no pace bowler took more wickets for England than Liam Plunkett, yet he has found himself out of the team for the three games they have lost.

That is not say that the likes of Chris Woakes, Jofra Archer and Mark Wood have not, for the most part, been bowling well, but it remains a fact that England have omitted their most prolific wicket-taker and started losing games.

On top of that, Archer struggled with a side strain before the Australia game and was below his best. Leg-spinner Adil Rashid, the leading bowler in ODIs for the past four years, has been hampered by a shoulder problem.

England have decisions to make.

Field better

Like a liar that won't look you in the eye, a sure sign of everything not being quite right is when the fielding starts to crack.

England were brilliant in the opening game against South Africa - who could forget the Ben Stokes catch? - but since then, the sloppy moments have added up.

Some will point to Woakes' quartet of catches against Pakistan or Bairstow's general boundary brilliance of all being well, but that would be to ignore other evidence.

Bairstow himself dropped two in the win against Afghanistan, Jos Buttler's errors behind the stumps are starting to mount and, for the first half of Australia's innings on Tuesday, England were as scruffy as an unironed shirt. That's before we consider the impact of Roy's crucial drop of Mohammad Hafeez in the defeat by Pakistan.

"They just didn't look like the team that hunt in packs in the field," said Vaughan.

"This England side are a good fielding team and when they have been under pressure in this tournament, they have fielded poorly. That is a mental issue, because the talent is there."
 
^ comments section has funny comments lol i always like brit humor when their team is not meeting the expectations
 
No CT 2017 was not a fluke. But it was a surprise for everyone. Pakistan was not expected to win, although I don't doubt their ability. I agree with all the experts that say Pakistan can beat any team on their day. But those days are not regular and consistent. Yes they are a wonderful team to watch when they are on a song, but they can also frustrate the fans quite often. I wish Pakistan does well in WC 2019 but the funny thing is, I would be both surprised and not be surprised if Pakistan wins WC 2019, you know.
 
The crowd will play a massive role. Any where else I would have backed ENG to win but how strange does it sound, fact is there will be more India supporters.

Eng will be under huge pressure.
 
This is new England, they are not going down without a fight; it's a home World Cup and a once in a life time opportunity, 4 years of investment, hard work, change of philosophy and dedication; it's a massive opportunity to be immortalised in the annals of cricketing history, the Ashes are massive here but make no mistake, a World Cup triumph will be remembered fondly, as fondly as the 2005 Ashes series; the entire country will be behind the 3 lions against the juggernaut that is India and their star bowler Bumrah. Everyone has already written the team off despite entering the tournament as favourites, they will play with even more freedom this weekend and show the same fierce display from bilateral cricket, if they are beaten in the end; it wont be because England choked, it will simply be because the best team won on the day.
 
Pakistan, England and India are my three teams (in order) in general, but as I have stated several times, I refuse to support Pakistan in this particular tournament. Coming into a World Cup as the 6th ranked side and losing 25 out of the last 30 matches is no way to prepare for a World Cup.

England's number 1 ODI ranking is not a fluke. The revamped their team after the 2015 World Cup and beat every team on the way to achieve the number 1 ranking. They not only won at home but also beat the likes of Australia and New Zealand away. If Pakistan were to perform consistently for 4 years and achieve the number 1 ranking by beating all teams along the way, I won't call it fluke.

Forget number one, I will be more generous. Do you think Pakistan have it in them to go into the 2023 World Cup as the second or third ranked team? I am willing to bet that Pakistan will not be in the top 3 come 2023, and that is why I refused to be sucked into the temporary joy of qualifying tor the semis. As a true supporter of Pakistan, do you think have enough confidence in this team to bet that they will be one of the top three teams going into the next World Cup? That is the consistency that I want Pakistan cricket to achieve with their second biggest talent pool and market in the game.

As far as supporting Australia and South Africa are concerned, I have never supported these two teams regardless of their state at any given time. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

If you did any research you'd know that England are probably the best flat track bullies in the world, yet too bad they're awful when faced with a slow-ish pitch. You've seen this with the game vs SL, WI series back in Jan, even the Pakistan and Aussie pitch to an extent too.

If you wanna talk about consistency then Australia are better on a range of different type of pitches than England, whom, like I said above, perform remarkably well on flat decks as seen by the crushing bilaterals vs Pakistan and against all teams when they've been at home.

Being number 1 in the world is about adapting. Aus, SA and Eng pitches aren't too much different, and England have lost more games when the pitch is more difficult to bat on/when the scoring rate is low because they haven't adapted. Yes they've played some quality attacking cricket but when the going gets tough like in this WC they're as much as a disappointment to English fans as Pakistan is to you.

I should rephrase: they're as much as a disappointment to you as Pakistan is to you.

Much better.
 
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