Faizabad : Pakistan Law Minister resigns as Government and protesters reach agreement

[waleed88]

Again, blame the idiots like Zia (which we all do) who caused immense damage to the country with his stupid policies. Yes some generals continued the policies of Zia and we are paying the price for those stupid polices, you will see even Army officers openly admitting such policies are counter productive.

What people like you fail to acknowledge though is Army's action and sacrifices in the last few years. Political parties had done absolutely NOTHING to resolve Taliban issue and even Karachi was left to bleed by ALL political parties. I support Imran Khan but i admit that even he was still in favour of "Peace talks" (alongwith PMLN and others) when we actually needed action. Army not only initiated the action but paid huge price and even Karachi got the life back due to rangers operation.

We must NOT support/oppose someone BLINDLY!

Army has made great sacrifices, though as long as we keep selective justice for 'good and bad taliban' we will keep going around in circles always.

 

[Waseem]

Who allows them to contest elections and didn't PMLN have firm links with them? Open your eyes. The army is not always in the wrong.

This is exactly the point, just blaming fauj will not resolve anything.

In fact PMLN had links to Lashkar e Jhangvi as well and Hafiz Saeed also supported their party. Let's give PMLN benefit of doubt and assume that they have stopped supporting them but then keep blaming Army even after such a powerful military actions which we all supported and appreciated???

 

[Waseem]

Army has made great sacrifices, though as long as we keep selective justice for 'good and bad taliban' we will keep going around in circles always.

No sorry my friend, where is good/bad Taliban justification after Zarb e Azab??

 

[waleed88]

No sorry my friend, where is good/bad Taliban justification after Zarb e Azab??

Hafiz Saeed's Milli Muslim LEague, Mumtaz Qadri's party, Lashkar e taiba, Lashkar Jhangvi a few more don't know the names. Maulvi Sami ul Haq's party.

 

[Syed1]

The minister resigned. So anyone can bring 1000 mullahs to the capital city. Impose blockade and get anyone fired.


Next on the list of these people would be the implementation of Shariah.

 

[Waseem]

Hafiz Saeed's Milli Muslim LEague, Mumtaz Qadri's party, Lashkar e taiba, Lashkar Jhangvi a few more don't know the names. Maulvi Sami ul Haq's party.

So you want an Army crackdown against political parties to strengthen democracy?? maybe i am naive but is it Army's job to decide which parties can be registered or is it job of democratic institution?

 

[waleed88]

So you want an Army crackdown against political parties to strengthen democracy?? maybe i am naive but is it Army's job to decide which parties can be registered or is it job of democratic institution?

Pretty sure it comes under National Action Plan. The army have taken it upon themselves to identify who is a security threat, with no indications from the government. Mostly the agencies and ISI decide that. I think all of them are security threats. All armed political parties are threats.

Like how most of MQM, Baloch and PPP workers are picked up without anyone's consent/orders.

Military courts were set up for the same reason.

 

[King-Misbah]

The minister resigned. So anyone can bring 1000 mullahs to the capital city. Impose blockade and get anyone fired.


Next on the list of these people would be the implementation of Shariah.

Apparently the protests are over too now. It has to be confirmed though. If true; what a weak government that gave in to 2000 mullahs. The day that PMLN bought the Paistani state to it's knees!!

 

[Waseem]

Pretty sure it comes under National Action Plan. The army have taken it upon themselves to identify who is a security threat, with no indications from the government. Mostly the agencies and ISI decide that. I think all of them are security threats. All armed political parties are threats.

Like how most of MQM, Baloch and PPP workers are picked up without anyone's consent/orders.

Military courts were set up for the same reason.

First of all, you need to really understand the difference between ARMED political parties and religious parties. I don't know need to explain what i feel about these Labbaik type parties but they are not really armed parties as you claim. Yes their extreme ideology could be dangerous for the country but how are they different to JUIF and JI who literally sell Islam to get votes??

In case you didn't know, all MQM, ANP and PPP had/have armed militant wings (as per Supreme court) responsible for hundreds of target killings and these are all your LIBERAL parties.

Anyway, thank GOD this madness is over now and government has done (resignation of Zaid Hamid) what they could've easily done before launching this attack. Interior Minister is still saying he didn't order the operation and it was authorities just following court orders.

 

[MenInG]

After the weeks-long protest that virtually paralysed the capital and saw several people losing their lives, the government has finally given in to the demands of protesters camped out at Faizabad Interchange with Zahid Hamid resigning as the Federal Law Minister.

The minister's resignation comes in the aftermath of Saturday’s bot*ched operation against protesters at Faizabad and successful negotiations with leaders of the demonstration, official sources and state broadcaster PTV say.

The law minister's resignation was the chief demand of the agitating parties, who have been staging a protest sit-in — today being its 20th day — in the capital to press the government for his removal.

The resignation is the result of an agreement reached between the government and the protesters late Sunday night. The agreement followed after a two-day face-off at Faizabad Interchange and other parts of the country between protesters and security forces that saw at least six people killed and hundreds injured.

According to PTV, the minister presented his resignation to Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi to bring the country "out of a state of crisis".

Abbasi is expected to accept the minister's resignation later in the day, sources told DawnNews.

"I made the decision to resign in a personal capacity," Hamid was quoted as saying by government sources.

Hamid reiterated that the Elections Act 2017 had been prepared with the consensus of all parliamentary political parties.

The protesters amassed at the Faizabad bridge belong to various 'religious' parties, including the Tehreek-i-Khatm-i-Nabuwwat, Tehreek-i-Labaik Ya Rasool Allah (TLY) and the Sunni Tehreek Pakistan (ST), and had been calling for the sacking of law minister Hamid and strict action against those behind the amendment to the Khatm-i-Nabuwwat oath in the Elections Act 2017 ─ which had earlier been deemed a 'clerical error'.

Containers being removed

Following the agreement, the protest leaders are likely to announce an end to the sit-in at a press conference expected shortly.

The protesters at Faizabad started packing up their belongings and police started removing containers placed around the protest site around 8am. However, the protesters forced authorities to block the area using containers again, saying they will not allow the roads to be opened until the sit-in is formally called off by the protest leaders.

Deciding against using force

On Sunday, the federal government tasked the Punjab Rangers to handle the agitated protesters in Faizabad and other parts of the twin cities of Islamabad and Rawalpindi. Around 1,000 Rangers personnel were deployed in Islamabad.

Earlier, the civil and military leadership had decided against use of force to disperse protesters, during a meeting at the Prime Minister House. Authorities decided to engage protest leaders "with influence" instead, saying the use of force against protesters had been discouraged in favour of a political settlement.

On Saturday, a day-long operation was launched by the Islamabad police, with the help of Frontier Constabulary (FC) personnel and other law enforcement agencies (LEAs), against religious protesters who had all but paralysed the twin cities of Islamabad and Rawalpindi for over a fortnight.

However, the armed operation failed to clear the protesters from Faizabad Interchange. Soon after the operation in the twin cities began, demonstrations broke out in several other cities, while protesters chanted anti-government slogans and blocked major roads. In many areas, protesters attacked LEAs and damaged public property.

After demonstrations spread throughout the country, the civil leadership sought assistance from the armed forces. Chief Of Army Staff Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa flew in from the United Arab Emirates for a meeting chaired by Prime Minister Abbasi, and attended by Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal and Director-General (DG) Inter-Services Intelligence Naveed Mukhtar at Prime Minister House.

According to military sources, the army chief had opposed use of force against its own people since the population's trust in the institution of the army "can't be compromised for little gains".

https://www.dawn.com/news/1373182/l...govt-reaches-agreement-with-agitating-parties

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan state surrenders to armed hooligans

 

[Hamza_]

These guys are all over lahori roads with dandas.

 

[Waseem]

Can someone tell me why this couldn't have been done before clashes that resulted in many deaths and injuries and millions worth damages? Life was paralyzed in the whole country for 2 days and then came resignation and promise of report being made public which was their demand int he first place??

 

[Major]

Mullah 1
Pakistan 0

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Disgusting. These freaks shouldn't have this kind of power. I have no words

 

[saadibaba]

Can someone tell me why this couldn't have been done before clashes that resulted in many deaths and injuries and millions worth damages? Life was paralyzed in the whole country for 2 days and then came resignation and promise of report being made public which was their demand int he first place??

PML-N govt. has managed this so poorly that its hard to find any logic behind their action but maybe the reason could be that if a few thousand people can get a minister fired, why shouldn't a few more thousand people get the PM fired and send the whole govt. packing. Where does it stop, what kind of precedent will this set. Of course the precedent has been set and even more forcefully than before.

 

[kingusama92]

Giving in sets a horrible precedent.

 

[Bewal Express]

Mullah 1
Pakistan 0

Thats what you get when the only aim of the govt is to protect the ill gotten wealth of one family and you forget to govern. It Also needs to be said that the same people that humiliated the Nooras are the same sorts its been in bed for the last 30 years.

 

[WebGuru]

Justice Siddiqui of IHC also jump in

 

[WebGuru]

Zaeem Qadri a senior leader of PMLN look like a fan of Khadim Rizwi

 

[Madplayer]

A very sad day Indeed.

 

[Madplayer]

These Mullahs should not have so much power. This is dangerous. What if the gullible people vote them into power?

Pakistan should make it mandatory to register all madrassas with the government to keep track of what they teach. The teachers should have certificates from an Islamic university to teach Islam. Make it more mainstream. Use Propaganda to control people's emotions related to religion. Also provide Education to supplement all of it. Pakistan needs a strong leader to carry out these measures.

 

[WebGuru]

These Mullahs should not have so much power. This is dangerous. What if the gullible people vote them into power?

Pakistan should make it mandatory to register all madrassas with the government to keep track of what they teach. The teachers should have certificates from an Islamic university to teach Islam. Make it more mainstream. Use Propaganda to control people's emotions related to religion. Also provide Education to supplement all of it. Pakistan needs a strong leader to carry out these measures.

Most of political mullahs are just interested in making money. A mullah alliance of MMA (an alliance of religious parties) won KP province and ruled there for years and had their CM during Musharraf era but all they did was corruption and remained on bed with Mush.

 

[WebGuru]

Civil supremacy democracy? These champions of democracy can give all the power to Army when they are in trouble after their own blunders. Check this the agreement btw LYR and Army

Signature of a Major General

 

[WebGuru]

I can see TuQ getting frustrated and coming back Pakistan for another dherna because he wasn't able to produce any result after multiple sittings in last few years while LYR got so much within a couple of weeks...

 

[Madplayer]

I can see TuQ getting frustrated and coming back Pakistan for another dherna because he wasn't able to produce any result after multiple sittings in last few years while LYR got so much within a couple of weeks...

To be honest, as a neutral i think TUQ is 100 times better than these other mullahs. He is one of the more liberal ones i have seen. Maybe i havent seen much of him but whatever i have heard him speak, i would agree with a lot of it.

 

[WebGuru]

To be honest, as a neutral i think TUQ is 100 times better than these other mullahs. He is one of the more liberal ones i have seen. Maybe i havent seen much of him but whatever i have heard him speak, i would agree with a lot of it.

Kinda agree with you i am not his follower but one thing is true that he will never let his followers use this path you can disagree with his views but even after 14 dead bodies and 100 injured followers he still didn't let his followers cross limits.

 

[Madplayer]

Kinda agree with you i am not his follower but one thing is true that he will never let his followers use this path you can disagree with his views but even after 14 dead bodies and 100 injured followers he still didn't let his followers cross limits.

To go with it, some of the other opinions that he has , like all non-muslims not going to hell , celebrating Christmas etc. do allude to him trying to reconcile Islam with the modern era as much as he can. I am sure he must have spoken some medieval vitriol also and I am certainly not a follower of his, or anyone for that matter but you cant really dismiss anyone without looking at what they are saying.

 

[waleed88]

Civil supremacy democracy? These champions of democracy can give all the power to Army when they are in trouble after their own blunders. Check this the agreement btw LYR and Army

Signature of a Major General

Nothing comes close to the blunders of our army, whether its partition of 1971, or the wars against India, or martial law, or cultivating taliban

 

[WebGuru]

To go with it, some of the other opinions that he has , like all non-muslims not going to hell , celebrating Christmas etc. do allude to him trying to reconcile Islam with the modern era as much as he can. I am sure he must have spoken some medieval vitriol also and I am certainly not a follower of his, or anyone for that matter but you cant really dismiss anyone without looking at what they are saying.

True and he was one of those very few scholars to give Fatwah on suicide bombings and terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa_on_Terrorism

 

[WebGuru]

Damned if you do damned if you don't situation. First Army was criticized for being the master mind of this dherna and now when they negotiated successfully they are again being criticized for interfering in goverment work by desi liberals. Our desi liberals should ask the govt why they were unable to clear their own mess and asked Army to jump in?

 

[pkwdpassion]

Thankfully normalcy has been restored,

Credit to the Pak Army for improving the situation and again saving the inept PM and his joker cabinet.

The resignation earlier would've done a world of good. This democracy that needs Pak Army for everything and funds for their own corruption is a useless force after all

Congratulations to the liberal mafia and their venom which has brought Mumtaz Qadri party into the mainstream. Wherever these feminists-leftist crap has engaged it has helped giving rise to far-right tobevome the new normal.

Some introspection is needed esp. by those who are not in the country but trying to polarize and destabilize, and create hatred for their fellow nationals.

Whoever disagrees with you is not a 'mullah','terrorist', 'extremist' and 1000 of those people were not mullahs but people going about their normal lives like retailers or drivers, who left their work for a cause they believe it is more important than their lives. Can any of you do that, don't think so. Liberal mafia should understand the issue themselves not by assigning labels and giving the extreme portions of that side the publicity.

This Govt. is not an angel that people would feel about. It actually effected the normalcy and ruined peoples weekend. It made people of ISlamabad and Pakistan suffer. Putting containers to block roads miles away from the exact location from Blanket bans on media and internet were not done by protesters but by this govt.. The democratic govt. supersede dictator Musharraf in blocking basic rights of the people.

The liberal mafia should remove their biases and hatred for the muslims and look at it from neutral perspective or even if they don't, many of you are irrelevant anyways who would rather worsen the situation than resolve it.

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=146098]pkwdpassion[/MENTION] I think sums things up.

The fact is this. The PMLN government has failed. They failed to negotiate with this sector of society because they arent governing for the people. This change in the aoth was completley uneccessary. It was done deliberatley knowing the outcome would be the khatam-e-nabuwat parties would demonstrate. Its an age old tactic. You provoke Muslims who may be illiterate about the nuances of their deen but understand the importance of the Prophet (pbuh). You insult them and then when they agitate you crack down blaming them for becoming agitated in the first place.

The PMLN thought they were being clever. Nd this is NS's downfall. His arrogance and hubris. He thinks he;s a master strategist who understands politics. He understands only one thing. Self preservation. Ahsan iqbal is an academic handed a strategic brief. He is incapable of handling the interior ministry. The PMLN tried to create a crisis where the army would have had to"potentially" fire on protestors. this is a scandal bigger than panama or anything. It was an orchestrated attempt to force a civil war scenario. I have insider info that the services have recieved warnings of major terror attacks that were and are being planned from afghanistan. It would have all coincided together.

dead maulanas and their supporters on the streets, shot by fauji's, NS going to the funerals and doing a erdogan, while terror bombings going off at the same time. The army would have been caught in a pincer movement.

However NS is a ***** and so are his ministers. There are forces at work here that are hell bent on creating a Syria scenario for Pakistan. Make no bones about it. Today its this dharna tomorrow it could be something else. The armed forces are well aware of what is happening.

 

[Abdullah719]

I can see TuQ getting frustrated and coming back Pakistan for another dherna because he wasn't able to produce any result after multiple sittings in last few years while LYR got so much within a couple of weeks...

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=146098]pkwdpassion[/MENTION] I think sums things up.

The fact is this. The PMLN government has failed. They failed to negotiate with this sector of society because they arent governing for the people. This change in the aoth was completley uneccessary. It was done deliberatley knowing the outcome would be the khatam-e-nabuwat parties would demonstrate. Its an age old tactic. You provoke Muslims who may be illiterate about the nuances of their deen but understand the importance of the Prophet (pbuh). You insult them and then when they agitate you crack down blaming them for becoming agitated in the first place.

The PMLN thought they were being clever. Nd this is NS's downfall. His arrogance and hubris. He thinks he;s a master strategist who understands politics. He understands only one thing. Self preservation. Ahsan iqbal is an academic handed a strategic brief. He is incapable of handling the interior ministry. The PMLN tried to create a crisis where the army would have had to"potentially" fire on protestors. this is a scandal bigger than panama or anything. It was an orchestrated attempt to force a civil war scenario. I have insider info that the services have recieved warnings of major terror attacks that were and are being planned from afghanistan. It would have all coincided together.

dead maulanas and their supporters on the streets, shot by fauji's, NS going to the funerals and doing a erdogan, while terror bombings going off at the same time. The army would have been caught in a pincer movement.

However NS is a ***** and so are his ministers. There are forces at work here that are hell bent on creating a Syria scenario for Pakistan. Make no bones about it. Today its this dharna tomorrow it could be something else. The armed forces are well aware of what is happening.

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - the changes to the wording of the oath was of no significance. The language is exactly the same as that under the Representation of Peoples Act that it replaces. The change was overseen by a 34 member Parliamentary committee who held 26 meetings and by a subcommittee that held 93 meetings. If the wording is of such controversy, why did not a single person raise issue in any of these meetings ?

As I pointed out in this post (https://tinyurl.com/ybz62f9a), what the Election Act did was consolidate multiple pieces of electoral legislation together. In doing so, multiple declarations for Muslim candidates were combined so that that the language preceding the declaration under the new law was, "I hereby declare that...I believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet", whereas in the old form it was worded as "I solemnly swear...that I believe".

The legal consequence is unchanged: a false declaration attracts disqualification whether you swore upon it or just stated it !

I'm no fan of PML-N but even they aren't crazy enough to set out to anger the right-wing Barelvi constituency, who were already kicking off after the Qadri execution, that have traditionally supported them especially given their government was already in a parlous state. This was a brazen attempt by Khadim Rizvi and TLY to gain votes before next year's election, to build on their third place finish in the NA-120 byelection, through weaponising the Khatam-e-Nabuwat issue.

Where PML-N absolutely deserve criticism is they way they've totally botched the law and order situation, as if they've never had seen a dharna before. They announced operations without any logistical planning so we had the farce of police officers using tear gas on demonstrators without masks, but demonstrators with masks throwing the tear gas shells back at police ! They announced a media blackout yet Rizvi was still going live on Facebook. Punjab Government passed the buck and allowed the protesters to move onto the capital. The government delayed for so long that they allowed the protests to swell in number so that much more force had to be used than if they'd taken action at the start.

What's also massively hypocritical is that PML-N rammed the Election Bill through parliament, because it was the SAME bill that would allow Nawaz to serve as party head despite disqualification, then once the religious groups kicked off about Khatam-e-Nabuwat they U-turned and blasted the "mistake" in the very bill they all VOTED for !

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - the changes to the wording of the oath was of no significance. The language is exactly the same as that under the Representation of Peoples Act that it replaces. The change was overseen by a 34 member Parliamentary committee who held 26 meetings and by a subcommittee that held 93 meetings. If the wording is of such controversy, why did not a single person raise issue in any of these meetings ?

As I pointed out in this post (https://tinyurl.com/ybz62f9a), what the Election Act did was consolidate multiple pieces of electoral legislation together. In doing so, multiple declarations for Muslim candidates were combined so that that the language preceding the declaration under the new law was, "I hereby declare that...I believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet", whereas in the old form it was worded as "I solemnly swear...that I believe".

The legal consequence is unchanged: a false declaration attracts disqualification whether you swore upon it or just stated it !

I'm no fan of PML-N but even they aren't crazy enough to set out to anger the right-wing Barelvi constituency, who were already kicking off after the Qadri execution, that have traditionally supported them especially given their government was already in a parlous state. This was a brazen attempt by Khadim Rizvi and TLY to gain votes before next year's election, to build on their third place finish in the NA-120 byelection, through weaponising the Khatam-e-Nabuwat issue.

Where PML-N absolutely deserve criticism is they way they've totally botched the law and order situation, as if they've never had seen a dharna before. They announced operations without any logistical planning so we had the farce of police officers using tear gas on demonstrators without masks, but demonstrators with masks throwing the tear gas shells back at police ! They announced a media blackout yet Rizvi was still going live on Facebook. Punjab Government passed the buck and allowed the protesters to move onto the capital. The government delayed for so long that they allowed the protests to swell in number so that much more force had to be used than if they'd taken action at the start.

What's also massively hypocritical is that PML-N rammed the Election Bill through parliament, because it was the SAME bill that would allow Nawaz to serve as party head despite disqualification, then once the religious groups kicked off about Khatam-e-Nabuwat they U-turned and blasted the "mistake" in the very bill they all VOTED for !

thanks for the post. i stand corrected. I have no doubt this khatamenabuwat lot are looking for an in. They are simply playing the neech game of siyasat.

But the sheer incompetence of the government is astounding. To the point that we are talking about the country's stability? This government cannot go on any longer.

 

[GujjarLife]

A total and complete surrender by the State. A group of illiterate, dirty moulvis holding Islamabad hostage and forcing a law minister to resign. This country is for Molvis only and they will repeat this every year now. No wonder we're a joke

 

[yasir]

A total and complete surrender by the State. A group of illiterate, dirty moulvis holding Islamabad hostage and forcing a law minister to resign. This country is for Molvis only and they will repeat this every year now. No wonder we're a joke

12th Rabiuwal will become a new 10th Moharam, now Sunnis will use this timeframe to play politics, show of strength, every now and then... And this precedence of Dharna politics is just a start(we have seen 2/3 major ones in last 4 years), and its not about corruption (as PTI will find out, if they ever attain power), its a new tool in the hands of almighty...Pakistan is getting from bad to worse with time, we somehow mange to take us to one of the worse path

 

[GujjarLife]

12th Rabiuwal will become a new 10th Moharam, now Sunnis will use this timeframe to play politics, show of strength, every now and then... And this precedence of Dharna politics is just a start(we have seen 2/3 major ones in last 4 years), and its not about corruption (as PTI will find out, if they ever attain power), its a new tool in the hands of almighty...Pakistan is getting from bad to worse with time, we somehow mange to take us to one of the worse path

PTI was unsuccessful with its 'Dharna' despite the hype and buildup. But a thousand molvis successfully beat the State - proving that this country is for moulvis only. The Labbaik folks are now confident and will stop at nothing. No one from the State is willing to confront these thugs. Most depressing sight was DG Rangers handing out a cash prize to these animals.

 

[MRSN]

PTI was unsuccessful with its 'Dharna' despite the hype and buildup. But a thousand molvis successfully beat the State - proving that this country is for moulvis only. The Labbaik folks are now confident and will stop at nothing. No one from the State is willing to confront these thugs. Most depressing sight was DG Rangers handing out a cash prize to these animals.

what? did that actually happened?

 

[MRSN]

A total and complete surrender by the State. A group of illiterate, dirty moulvis holding Islamabad hostage and forcing a law minister to resign. This country is for Molvis only and they will repeat this every year now. No wonder we're a joke

What was your solution? operation? Do you realize the after effects of Lal Mosque operation?

This dharana episode would not have repeated had these politicians supported army during lal mosque. I think army just played smartly this time and made them realize their mistakes in the past.

 

[Markhor]

what? did that actually happened?

Take a look here:

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan Rangers Punjab DG Maj-Gen Azhar Naveed hands out envelopès with a token Rs1000 as goodwill to members of Tehrik Labbaik Ya Rasul Allah who were recently released from detention following the government's agreement with the protesters <a href="https://t.co/hQMLdZsxqW">pic.twitter.com/hQMLdZsxqW</a></p>— omar r quraishi (@omar_quraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/status/935111526494633984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[the Great Khan]

Take a look here:

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan Rangers Punjab DG Maj-Gen Azhar Naveed hands out envelopès with a token Rs1000 as goodwill to members of Tehrik Labbaik Ya Rasul Allah who were recently released from detention following the government's agreement with the protesters <a href="https://t.co/hQMLdZsxqW">pic.twitter.com/hQMLdZsxqW</a></p>— omar r quraishi (@omar_quraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/status/935111526494633984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The pakistan rangers are work udner the interiro ministry so I can only presume this was a nice little hand out from showbaaz sahib??

 

[MRSN]

Take a look here:

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan Rangers Punjab DG Maj-Gen Azhar Naveed hands out envelopès with a token Rs1000 as goodwill to members of Tehrik Labbaik Ya Rasul Allah who were recently released from detention following the government's agreement with the protesters <a href="https://t.co/hQMLdZsxqW">pic.twitter.com/hQMLdZsxqW</a></p>— omar r quraishi (@omar_quraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/status/935111526494633984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's all well that ends well.. Anyway Justice Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui clearly said "don't use arms" so army didn't have any option but to resolve it peacefully.

 

[yasir]

It's all well that ends well.. Anyway Justice Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui clearly said "don't use arms" so army didn't have any option but to resolve it peacefully.

We take corruption by Armed forces so casually, they get away with everything, list of their corruption runs very long... Part of the reason is its an institution, in many ways Army is the main reason why Pakistan is such a mess, keep feeding monster

 

[the Great Khan]

We take corruption by Armed forces so casually, they get away with everything, list of their corruption runs very long... Part of the reason is its an institution, in many ways Army is the main reason why Pakistan is such a mess, keep feeding monster

true but at the same time they do have internal mechanisms for dealing with stuff and by and large in comparison to other institutions have a merit system. Yes they have made mistakes but thats a legacy of partition. We dont have an excuse now. The army has largely taken a back seat approach and its for politicians to seize the moment. They have failed miserably to do so, so we turn to the one institution we have left.

 

[WebGuru]

haha Qadri sahab to dil per he le gae

 

[Sunny786]

How in the hell did they give in to these demands? This is giving them more relevance and power.

 

[yasir]

true but at the same time they do have internal mechanisms for dealing with stuff and by and large in comparison to other institutions have a merit system. Yes they have made mistakes but thats a legacy of partition. We dont have an excuse now. The army has largely taken a back seat approach and its for politicians to seize the moment. They have failed miserably to do so, so we turn to the one institution we have left.

Army as an institution is corrupt, its corruption of ideas and vision... We have already seen the results of decades of country marching along their vision. We have become more extremist as a society, as a culture and become less prosperous, we are going no where with National security first, Islam first state...These policies have failed us badly and will keep failing us...There is no reason to keep investing in those ideas, you are going to get the same results... All these guys on high horse of IK will get the reality check soon...

Like with religion, we cannot discussion the vision of the country...What is the point of democracy if you cannot discuss the very ideas that are driving the vision for decades(Islam and Army)... Economic and intellectual Prosperity is not going to happen if we cannot talk about core issues...When company goes bankrupt, the honest audit is vital, otherwise it cannot recover...

 

[the Great Khan]

Army as an institution is corrupt, its corruption of ideas and vision... We have already seen the results of decades of country marching along their vision. We have become more extremist as a society, as a culture and become less prosperous, we are going no where with National security first, Islam first state...These policies have failed us badly and will keep failing us...There is no reason to keep investing in those ideas, you are going to get the same results... All these guys on high horse of IK will get the reality check soon...

Like with religion, we cannot discussion the vision of the country...What is the point of democracy if you cannot discuss the very ideas that are driving the vision for decades(Islam and Army)... Economic and intellectual Prosperity is not going to happen if we cannot talk about core issues...When company goes bankrupt, the honest audit is vital, otherwise it cannot recover...

with all due respect but the nature of Islam or whether we believe in God swt or not has absolutley nothing to do with going bankrupt.

With regards to corruption in the army. When compared to other institutions it is infinitely smaller. Yes they have commercial enterprises, yes they have housing schemes and other stuff. But a corrupt army cant fight as we saw in 71. This army is fighting and dying. It is now a battle hardened fighting force that cannot not be trifled with.

I know of the kind of corruption within it. I know people who serve in it. But there is no comparison with our political class and other institutions.

 

[MenInG]

How in the hell did they give in to these demands? This is giving them more relevance and power.

short-term bribe will open the way for long-term extortion

 

[last_knight]

haha Qadri sahab to dil per he le gae

Having been part of, and having observed every single update of YDA vs Punjab Govt 2010-12, I can assure you PMLn is very much capable of recreating this Dharna. Dr TuQ may still have a part to play, particularly when Punjab Police supposedly has refused to operate without written orders.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Absolute madness. The list of demands which have to be met is ridiculous.

Now we are hostage to these people for good.

 

[waleed88]

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - the changes to the wording of the oath was of no significance. The language is exactly the same as that under the Representation of Peoples Act that it replaces. The change was overseen by a 34 member Parliamentary committee who held 26 meetings and by a subcommittee that held 93 meetings. If the wording is of such controversy, why did not a single person raise issue in any of these meetings ?

As I pointed out in this post (https://tinyurl.com/ybz62f9a), what the Election Act did was consolidate multiple pieces of electoral legislation together. In doing so, multiple declarations for Muslim candidates were combined so that that the language preceding the declaration under the new law was, "I hereby declare that...I believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet", whereas in the old form it was worded as "I solemnly swear...that I believe".

The legal consequence is unchanged: a false declaration attracts disqualification whether you swore upon it or just stated it !

I'm no fan of PML-N but even they aren't crazy enough to set out to anger the right-wing Barelvi constituency, who were already kicking off after the Qadri execution, that have traditionally supported them especially given their government was already in a parlous state. This was a brazen attempt by Khadim Rizvi and TLY to gain votes before next year's election, to build on their third place finish in the NA-120 byelection, through weaponising the Khatam-e-Nabuwat issue.

Where PML-N absolutely deserve criticism is they way they've totally botched the law and order situation, as if they've never had seen a dharna before. They announced operations without any logistical planning so we had the farce of police officers using tear gas on demonstrators without masks, but demonstrators with masks throwing the tear gas shells back at police ! They announced a media blackout yet Rizvi was still going live on Facebook. Punjab Government passed the buck and allowed the protesters to move onto the capital. The government delayed for so long that they allowed the protests to swell in number so that much more force had to be used than if they'd taken action at the start.

What's also massively hypocritical is that PML-N rammed the Election Bill through parliament, because it was the SAME bill that would allow Nawaz to serve as party head despite disqualification, then once the religious groups kicked off about Khatam-e-Nabuwat they U-turned and blasted the "mistake" in the very bill they all VOTED for !

I agree with everything you said except that when PMLN passed the Election bill all parties in the parliament were in favor of it. When the change in oath was pointed out, Zahid Hamid was willing to bring it back to its original state but the opposition didn't vote that in. Everyone was under the impression the change in the wordings didn't mean anything. It only received 14 votes against 34 against.

Somtimes opposition for the sake of opposition also makes you culpable.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Just have to watch a few speeches on YT to see what Rizvi is about.

Dark times ahead.

 

[ataullah]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xkbHfyiK63I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

 

[LordJames]

I agree with you and it is not acceptable in Islam to inconvenience others by blockading roadways etc. However, does Pakistan has a system or mechanism to file political grievances and get them addresses?

Does Pakistan have a mature democracy where errors can be scrutinised and addressed?

The answer is no.

In the absence of a system of checks and balances, common man in the streets has no choice but to resort to such tactics to get issues resolved.
You can’t judge the actions of common citizens by western standards but then ignore the fact that they have no other mechanism to get their grievances addressed.

Majority of the citizens of Pakistan have a stance on Khatm-e-Nubuwwat. If you wish to tout democracy, then respect the wishes of the majority. Once again, you cannot back democracy and then ignore the wishes of the overwhelming majority.

The issue here is not freedom to practise of Qadiyani-Ahmadi. The sensitive issue here is them mimicking the practises of orthodox (normative) Islam and Muslims. There are ZERO restrictions in Pakistan on Qadiyani-Ahmadi choosing to take or assert their belief in anyone they wish, the issue is presenting their practises as mainstream Islam.

Qadiyani-Ahmadi believers can pray at Friday, but they cannot call it “Jumah Namaaz” because it is an integral part of Islam.

Qadiyani-Ahmadi can openly and candidly affirm their belief in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani, they cannot then assert or claim belief in the finality of Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him).

In the country of Pakistani, those who ascribe to Bahai Faith also assert their belief in another prophet but they neither present themselves as Muslims nor do they hide or try to subvert the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him), either overtly or covertly.

This is the issue.

In a democratic society, this is the law.

If you wish to argue that the Faizabad agitation was against the laws of the Nation, then using the same basis also argue that (as the law stands) the Qadiyani-Ahmadi activities as and when they fall outside of the law should also be suppressed.

If you wish to argue legally then take the same stance in all matters and don't pick and choose.

 

[saeedhk]

The PTI will benefit from this this fiasco. Traditionally, right-wingers and conservatives have always voted for Nawaz Sharif's party. The PML-N's botched handling of the sit-in and the use of violence against protestors will drive away many of PML-N's conservative voters to either the PTI or the TYL, resulting in significant reduction in PML-N's vote bank.

 

[saeedhk]

More and more information is emerging of under the table agreements. Two weeks back, the Government has signed a deal with Asfraf Jalali, chairman of TYL, in which it was accepted that the government would prepare of database of Ahmedi civil servants serving the the federal government.

 

[saeedhk]

Pakistanis who mistreat minorities e.g. Ahmedis, Hindus or Christians in their country should not cry and scream about the sufferings of Muslims in Palestine, Burma and elsewhere.

You oppress minorities in your country and expect others to respect you and give you rights when you are a minority in their country. Shameful!

 

[MenInG]

More horrible and insensitive posts deleted

 

[LordJames]

Pakistanis who mistreat minorities e.g. Ahmedis, Hindus or Christians in their country should not cry and scream about the sufferings of Muslims in Palestine, Burma and elsewhere.

You oppress minorities in your country and expect others to respect you and give you rights when you are a minority in their country. Shameful!

There are sporadic abuses towards minority in every country and it is regrettable. Even a single incident of abuse is too much and should be curbed. Nevertheless, when it comes to dealing with minorities Pakistan has no better or no worse record than any other country.

And let me reiterate by saying that any abuse should not be tolerated and should be firmly dealt with.

However, the issue of Qadiyani-Ahmadees is not that simple. It is an issue of contention which strikes a raw cord in the majority of Muslim (residents) of Pakistan. Overwhelming majority of Muslims of Pakistan have the legal and constitutional right not to have their religion mocked and their belief system trivialised.

Qadiyani-Ahmadees hold Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani in high esteem and they have the religious, moral and constitutional right to do so in Pakistan and elsewhere. What they don’t have the right is to juxtapose their belief system on top of the orthodox, normative and uninterrupted belief of Muslims which they have held for over 1400+ years.

I gave an example in the earlier post and let me give another and give two examples:

1. Bahai: They differ with orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
2. Bohri: They differ with orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
   

Terrorism and murder against any of these groups or anybody else in Pakistan is condemnable. Nevertheless, it is an emphatic fact that both of these groups have lived (and thrived) in Pakistan without any of significant targeting by majority of Muslims of Pakistan.

Then we have to ask why? If Qadiyani-Ahmadees, Bahai & Bohri all differ with regards to orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) of Islam and Muslims then what is the issue with Qadiyani-Ahmadees?

Bahai and Bohrees don’t try to present themselves as orthodox Muslims and pass off their practises and Islamic while Qadiyani-Ahmadees continuously do so. This is the bone of contention!

The issue isn’t freedom to practise their religion with regards to Qadiyani-Ahmadees, the issue is them legally barred from identifying themselves and their practises as those of Islam and Muslims.

Do you get the distinction?

Hindus, Sikhs and Christians apart from sporadic miscarriages of Justices (which should be prevented) don’t have many problems in Pakistan. These miscarriages of justice are due to corrupt legal system.

Provided that this forum DOES NOT CENSOR polite discussion on the Qadiyani-Ahmadees and how they differ with orthodox Islam, start a thread on whoever wants to explore the issue.

If the conversation will be stifled, censored, edited then its not worth it. If there is anyone here knows Qadiyani-Ahmadees religion and their creed, let them come forward and start a discussion and you will see for yourself.

Muslims don’t have a problem with Qadiyani-Ahmadees believing in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani. Muslims have a problems Qadiyani-Ahmadees ascribing their beliefs with orthodox Islam and creating a parallel environment which is an affront to Islam.

You can’t setup a parallel Jewish synagogue in Israel while fundamentally disagreeing with basic creed of Judaism.

You can’t setup a parallel Catholic Church in Ireland or Malta fundamentally disagreeing with basic creed of Catholicism.

You can call it X or Y but you can’t call it Judaism or Catholicism. Qadiyani-Ahmadees can call themselves whatever they wish to be called and practise whatever they wish to practise but don’t hurt the sentiments of over overwhelming majority of Muslims by calling yourselves Muslims. They can even place a framed picture of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani and prostrate to it and nobody will object, as long as it clearly noted not be Islam.

In Muslim majority of Pakistan, thousands of Hindus prostrate to idols (shirk in Islam) and no Muslim citizen of Pakistan objects because they are claiming to be Hindus and not Muslims.

Qadiyani-Ahmadees then object, “How dare you not call us, Muslims? What gives you the right to do so?” 3 things:

1. Qur’aan
2. Sunnah
3. 1400+ years of Islamic legal precedence

It’s a pretty simple issue to understand.

Declare yourself as Qadiyani-Ahmadees and then study in Pakistan, get jobs, do business, do whatever every other minorities does.

 

[ataullah]

There are sporadic abuses towards minority in every country and it is regrettable. Even a single incident of abuse is too much and should be curbed. Nevertheless, when it comes to dealing with minorities Pakistan has no better or no worse record than any other country.

And let me reiterate by saying that any abuse should not be tolerated and should be firmly dealt with.

However, the issue of Qadiyani-Ahmadees is not that simple. It is an issue of contention which strikes a raw cord in the majority of Muslim (residents) of Pakistan. Overwhelming majority of Muslims of Pakistan have the legal and constitutional right not to have their religion mocked and their belief system trivialised.

Qadiyani-Ahmadees hold Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani in high esteem and they have the religious, moral and constitutional right to do so in Pakistan and elsewhere. What they don’t have the right is to juxtapose their belief system on top of the orthodox, normative and uninterrupted belief of Muslims which they have held for over 1400+ years.

I gave an example in the earlier post and let me give another and give two examples:

1. Bahai: They differ with orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
2. Bohri: They differ with orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
   

Terrorism and murder against any of these groups or anybody else in Pakistan is condemnable. Nevertheless, it is an emphatic fact that both of these groups have lived (and thrived) in Pakistan without any of significant targeting by majority of Muslims of Pakistan.

Then we have to ask why? If Qadiyani-Ahmadees, Bahai & Bohri all differ with regards to orthodox, normative belief of Finality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) of Islam and Muslims then what is the issue with Qadiyani-Ahmadees?

Bahai and Bohrees don’t try to present themselves as orthodox Muslims and pass off their practises and Islamic while Qadiyani-Ahmadees continuously do so. This is the bone of contention!

The issue isn’t freedom to practise their religion with regards to Qadiyani-Ahmadees, the issue is them legally barred from identifying themselves and their practises as those of Islam and Muslims.

Do you get the distinction?

Hindus, Sikhs and Christians apart from sporadic miscarriages of Justices (which should be prevented) don’t have many problems in Pakistan. These miscarriages of justice are due to corrupt legal system.

Provided that this forum DOES NOT CENSOR polite discussion on the Qadiyani-Ahmadees and how they differ with orthodox Islam, start a thread on whoever wants to explore the issue.

If the conversation will be stifled, censored, edited then its not worth it. If there is anyone here knows Qadiyani-Ahmadees religion and their creed, let them come forward and start a discussion and you will see for yourself.

Muslims don’t have a problem with Qadiyani-Ahmadees believing in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani. Muslims have a problems Qadiyani-Ahmadees ascribing their beliefs with orthodox Islam and creating a parallel environment which is an affront to Islam.

You can’t setup a parallel Jewish synagogue in Israel while fundamentally disagreeing with basic creed of Judaism.

You can’t setup a parallel Catholic Church in Ireland or Malta fundamentally disagreeing with basic creed of Catholicism.

You can call it X or Y but you can’t call it Judaism or Catholicism. Qadiyani-Ahmadees can call themselves whatever they wish to be called and practise whatever they wish to practise but don’t hurt the sentiments of over overwhelming majority of Muslims by calling yourselves Muslims. They can even place a framed picture of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani and prostrate to it and nobody will object, as long as it clearly noted not be Islam.

In Muslim majority of Pakistan, thousands of Hindus prostrate to idols (shirk in Islam) and no Muslim citizen of Pakistan objects because they are claiming to be Hindus and not Muslims.

Qadiyani-Ahmadees then object, “How dare you not call us, Muslims? What gives you the right to do so?” 3 things:

1. Qur’aan
2. Sunnah
3. 1400+ years of Islamic legal precedence

It’s a pretty simple issue to understand.

Declare yourself as Qadiyani-Ahmadees and then study in Pakistan, get jobs, do business, do whatever every other minorities does.

Agree with you. They can do what they want but just like putting a label of zamzam on an alcohol bottle is unacceptable similarly to call themselves Muslims after believing mirza to be a prophet after Muhammad pbuh is unacceptable.

 

[LordJames]

Agree with you. They can do what they want but just like putting a label of zamzam on an alcohol bottle is unacceptable similarly to call themselves Muslims after believing mirza to be a prophet after Muhammad pbuh is unacceptable.

Catholic Church on Mormons:

https://www.catholic.com/tract/distinctive-beliefs-of-the-mormon-church

Are Mormons Protestants? No, but their founder, Joseph Smith, came from a Protestant background, and Protestant presuppositions form part of the basis of Mormonism.

Still, it isn’t correct to call Mormons Protestants, because doing so implies they hold to the essentials of Christianity—what C. S. Lewis termed "mere Christianity." The fact is, they don’t. Gordon B. Hinckley, the former president and prophet of the Mormon church, says (in a booklet called What of the Mormons?) that he and his co-religionists "are no closer to Protestantism than they are to Catholicism."

Catholic Church on Jehovah's Witnesses:

https://www.catholic.com/tract/distinctive-beliefs-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are quite forthcoming about their religious beliefs. Their religion, unlike Mormonism, isn’t an esoteric one with secret doctrines known only to an initiated few.

Muslims on Ahmadee-Qadiyanees:

http://www.wifaqululama.co.uk/islam-and-ahmadis/

We unequivocally condemn the murder of Asad Shah and affirm the right of Ahmadis to their freedom of belief and reject any attacks on their property or persons. We subscribe to pluralism and peaceful coexistence and acknowledge the rights of all to believe as they choose without coercion, fear and intimidation.

This global consensus was reconfirmed by the Muslim World League in their April 1974 (Makkah) meeting. Muslim Scholars from all over the world, and all schools of thought, unanimously agreed upon the position that (due to irreconcilable differences in creed) “Qadianees or Ahmadees are outside the fold of Islam”. This has been subsequently confirmed in later resolutions. This scholarly consensus involved detailed research into the the beliefs of the Ahmadiyya and it’s compatibility with normative Islam.

 

[WebGuru]

 

[WebGuru]

Check this video guys reaction of a patwari )

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="tl" dir="ltr">Angry Patwari &#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://t.co/eBZY1MFrRf">pic.twitter.com/eBZY1MFrRf</a></p>— Dr. Abeeha (@Ahtweeted) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ahtweeted/status/935386663546744837?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1373841/a...heir-questionable-role-in-the-faizabad-sit-in

A two-member Supreme Court bench on Thursday grilled government officials as well as the media for their 'questionable role' in the sit-in at Faizabad, which had disrupted life in Islamabad and Rawalpindi for 20 days.

"How did the protesters get teargas shells and sticks?" Justice Mushir Alam asked the Islamabad advocate general. "If you cannot secure the federal capital, how will you secure the country?" he asked.

The bench, which is hearing a petition on the disturbance caused to public life due to the sit-in, made the remarks while reviewing a nine-page report submitted to the apex court on Wednesday on behalf of Inspector General of Islamabad Police Khalid Khattak.

At the outset of the hearing, Deputy Attorney General Sohail Mahmood requested the court to adjourn the matter until Tuesday as the attorney general is out of the country.

"Why should we adjourn if you are going to be present?" Justice Qazi Faez Isa asked in response.

Continuing with the hearing, the judge asked why the country's agencies do not come forward. "Why is the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) representative not here?" he asked, inquiring as to why the intelligence agency was "silent".

He added that it was the ISI's responsibility to protect the state. "The poor of this country provide the funds for ISI," he said.

Justice Isa also took note of the fact that the protests are not completely over and that a sit-in is still ongoing.

On the role of the army in the matter, which previously came under scrutiny in the Islamabad High Court, the judges said that it was incorrect to say that the army is separate from the government.

"The government is not separate from the army," observed the bench. "They should not be maligned — those doing so are working on personal agendas."

During the last hearing, the court had rejected reports furnished by intelligence agencies, saying there had been no depth in them and that the agencies' performance was not up to the mark.

"We are not satisfied with the ISI report," Justice Isa said on Thursday, asking ISI to submit more details.

'Media fanning conflict'
Justice Isa also censured the media for fanning the conflict. "Is it so easy to say hateful things?" he wondered, questioning the government as to why no action had been taken against the media. "Should we close a few media channels ourselves?" he asked.

It seems to be the media's job to defame people, the judge further remarked, asking who owned each TV channel and where they got their funding from.

"The ISI report also mentions a channel — should we take its name in open court?" he asked.

"We cannot look away from what is happening," the bench said, asking, "Should we issue notices to channels? Where is the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (Pemra)?"

The judges said that if the media does not agree with the court's remarks, it could become a party to the case.

"It is our responsibility to hear every party," one of the justices remarked.

"It is the responsibility of TV channels not to fan violence," said Justice Isa, warning that the judiciary would keep an on eye whether the media "corrects its direction or not".

"How can licenses of TV channels be suspended?" he asked.

"Does the media encourage or discourage sectarianism and hatred?"

Acknowledging that an independent media was important for the country's development, the court said that verbal abuse was not allowed [to be aired] in any country.

"Media people are also required to follow the laws," the bench remarked, asking how many channels were operating in the country.

The deputy attorney general told the court that more than 89 channels were operating in Pakistan.

"Did any TV channel tell what Islam is?"

"The media does not tell us who the enemy is. Should we summon all TV channel owners?" the judges wondered.

Damages during sit-in
Justice Alam asked whether cases have been registered against protesters possessing explosive material.

The advocate general informed the court that 27 cases have been registered against the protesters.

The bench also inquired about how many people had died, how many were injured and how many public and private assets were damaged during the protest.

"Will sit-ins be staged [in the country] to achieve objectives? What message has been sent — that the danda [stick] should be picked up to achieve anything?"

'Preaching' Islam
Speaking on religion, Justice Isa said Islam had spread in the region due to the strength of Muslims' character, not war.

"Can people even talk about Islam in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?" he wondered.

He remarked that the people of Pakistan are "very naive" and get killed due to their naivete.

"Is bloodshed a part of our religion? The tongue is being used as a weapon," the judges noted.

Separately, the court adjourned hearing a suo motu notice taken on the chronic traffic congestion and roadblocks due to the Faizabad sit-in until an unspecified date.

In its last hearing, when the sit-in was ongoing in the capital, the SC had said that the life of believers in a Muslim country was being made difficult, and wondered how the protests would help glorify Islam.

“The protesters are undermining the state and its institutions,” Justice Isa had complained, adding that the biggest crime in any society was fitna [dissent] and fasad-fil-arz [discord], because it disturbed the social order.

'What went wrong with Faizabad operation'
Islamabad police had on Wednesday told the SC that the security personnel who had launched a botched operation against the protesters at Faizabad interchange on Saturday were fatigued due to prolonged deployment during the 20-day-long siege.

Read: How dharna politics threaten system stability in Pakistan

“Mixed deployment of different forces, including the police, Frontier Constabulary (FC) and Pakistan Rangers, also had negative effects on productivity,” read the report submitted to the apex court, adding that the religious sentiments of the men deployed for the operation were also provoked by the protesters through their speeches, thus making them a hurdle in effective utilisation of men.

The police report explained that the mob/protesters were prepared and they even cut wires of all relevant cameras installed around the sit-in places within the jurisdiction of Islamabad and Rawalpindi through which their activities were being monitored. They were armed with stones, pistols, axes, rods, teargas shells and masks and were highly motivated religiously.

The report criticised electronic media for live coverage of the operation as well cellular networks and social media which disseminated the time of operation for giving the protesters final notice of the deadline to vacate the Faizabad place.

This went against the police and resulted in the gathering of more protesters from adjoining areas of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, the report lamented.

During the operation, 173 officials or officers of the law enforcement agencies were injured by the protesters, but no government employee or private person died during the operation, as no firearms were issued to any of the officers or officials deployed there, the report said.

The police report also admitted that since the protesters were sitting on an open area, teargas did not work effectively.

Regarding the security plan, the report said that 5,508 officers/officials fully equipped with anti-riot equipment had been deployed at the Faizabad Interchange to disperse the protesters.

Initially, teargas and water canon were used when the operation was launched on Nov 25, but the protesters resisted and assaulted the police with batons and axes and pelted them with stones. The protesters were also armed with teargas and used it upon police force, the report said.

This went against the police and caused a gathering of more protesters from the adjoining areas of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, the report lamented.

After hectic efforts of about four hours almost 80 per cent of the area was cleared from the protesters, but in the meanwhile, workers of the Tehreek-i-Labbaik Ya Rasool Allah from adjoining areas of Rawalpindi joined them and started brutal attacks on police force.

Resultantly, several personnel of police and other law enforcement agencies were injured and rushed to nearby hospitals.

Due to severe resistance by the protesters, there was an apprehension of loss of lives so the operation had to be stopped for some time and the force was reassembled to seal all incoming roads and streets so that another attempt could be made with full preparation.

Regarding the losses the nation suffered during the sit-in, the police report said that protesters burnt many vehicles owned by private persons as well as of the police. The police registered 27 cases from Nov 8 to 25 against 418 protesters, who were sent to the judicial custody after investigation and challans against them were being sent to the court of competent jurisdiction for trial.

The leadership of the Tehreek-i-Labbaik had promised shifting to the Democracy Park to record their protest, after which they should have been dispersed peacefully, but they backed out later from the promise and staged the demonstration at the Faizabad junction while blocking the incoming and outgoing roads used by the general public.

Since the issue was of sensitive nature, the federal government as well as the district administration continued negotiations with the leadership of Tehreek-i-Labbaik to end their demonstration peacefully, the report said.

The Islamabad Capital Territory police under the directives of the Islamabad High Court and the district administration utilised all its resources to disperse the protesters as well as to shift them to Democracy Park, the report said, adding that extra force was also requisitioned from other provinces and Rangers personnel were also deployed at specific points after complete briefing on operations.

The police claimed that the operation was carried out with proper planning but due to strong resistance by the protesters and reinforcement by the workers of the Tehreek from nearby areas of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, it had to be halted temporarily to avoid any casualty, but when information came that countrywide protests had been started and problems were occurring to maintain law and order throughout the country, the operation had to be completely stopped.

 

[WebGuru]

 

[yasir]

Catholic Church on Mormons:

https://www.catholic.com/tract/distinctive-beliefs-of-the-mormon-church

Are Mormons Protestants? No, but their founder, Joseph Smith, came from a Protestant background, and Protestant presuppositions form part of the basis of Mormonism.

Still, it isn’t correct to call Mormons Protestants, because doing so implies they hold to the essentials of Christianity—what C. S. Lewis termed "mere Christianity." The fact is, they don’t. Gordon B. Hinckley, the former president and prophet of the Mormon church, says (in a booklet called What of the Mormons?) that he and his co-religionists "are no closer to Protestantism than they are to Catholicism."

Catholic Church on Jehovah's Witnesses:

https://www.catholic.com/tract/distinctive-beliefs-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are quite forthcoming about their religious beliefs. Their religion, unlike Mormonism, isn’t an esoteric one with secret doctrines known only to an initiated few.

Muslims on Ahmadee-Qadiyanees:

http://www.wifaqululama.co.uk/islam-and-ahmadis/

We unequivocally condemn the murder of Asad Shah and affirm the right of Ahmadis to their freedom of belief and reject any attacks on their property or persons. We subscribe to pluralism and peaceful coexistence and acknowledge the rights of all to believe as they choose without coercion, fear and intimidation.

This global consensus was reconfirmed by the Muslim World League in their April 1974 (Makkah) meeting. Muslim Scholars from all over the world, and all schools of thought, unanimously agreed upon the position that (due to irreconcilable differences in creed) “Qadianees or Ahmadees are outside the fold of Islam”. This has been subsequently confirmed in later resolutions. This scholarly consensus involved detailed research into the the beliefs of the Ahmadiyya and it’s compatibility with normative Islam.

Nobody is defining Christianity by Law or Constitution

Fundamental problem with Pakistan's constitution is that it violate the rights of minority. No other country defines religion as part of constitution (well not democratic ones), on top of that defining somebody's religion for them...This is violation of Freedom of religion, you have to look at this way, if Qayadanis were majority or sizable minority, can you really make such laws?? - This is coward and shameful law, Only reason we have those, because of really small minority, Pakistanis think they can crush them easily...

Shias and Sunnis has no right to define what Qadayanis want to call them. BTW: Mormon calls them Christian, in US they have churches, they are consider a sect of Christianity, nobody has taken name "Christian" away from them... They don't call them Catholic or Protestant...Qadayani's are not calling themselves Shia or Sunni Muslim...BTW: There is Liberal Catholic Church (LCC), exist, that has nothing to do with Catholic Church, still they live on...

Pope is authority of Catholic, not every Christian in the world listen to adhere to whatever Pop says, Every Sect in Christianity have their own hierarchy of Church, similar to Shia or Sunni or Qadayani, for most part they don't share Mosques...

Why change Secular Constitution, why not Change the religious Constitution (aka Kalma) First?

First two Kalma's of Muslim talk about God and Prophet, no where word "Last" is mentioned, Did God or Prophet forget or made a mistake??

if now Muslims or Sunnis or Wahabi or whoever, think that wording of "Last Prophet" is so important. Why don't you make an amendment to Kalma first before changing Secular Constitution?? - Put your money where mouth is...What, you don't have authority to do that, Ohh that is so sad Then who gave you authority to make it a fundamental requirement for others and that too in Secular Constitution?? :faceplam:

 

[WebGuru]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fauj ko gaaliyaan denay waalo, this is the agreement between Maulvis & our beloved civil Govt in Oct. Govt didnt act upon it & hence the dharna.Whether u agree or disagree with this agreement, this is why TLY ppl came & didnt trust the govt again so Army had to become mediators. <a href="https://t.co/K0nEfs5W0q">pic.twitter.com/K0nEfs5W0q</a></p>— Hamza Ali Abbasi (@iamhamzaabbasi) <a href="https://twitter.com/iamhamzaabbasi/status/936593542172086272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Pakpak]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], someone show this to brother Alam Dar yammering on about PTI in the other thread.

 

[WebGuru]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], someone show this to brother Alam Dar yammering on about PTI in the other thread.

Almost every Noonie leader from Maryam and NS to Abid Shurli and Javed Latif are posting religious pics now to show their Emaan after their yahoodi propaganda against IK for 20 years Usko yahoodi saabit kerte kerte khud ko musalmaan saabit kerna per gaya he haha

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], someone show this to brother Alam Dar yammering on about PTI in the other thread.

Why doesnt he have the bandages on in this pic?

 

[Waseem]

Almost every Noonie leader from Maryam and NS to Abid Shurli and Javed Latif are posting religious pics now to show their Emaan after their yahoodi propaganda against IK for 20 years Usko yahoodi saabit kerte kerte khud ko musalmaan saabit kerna per gaya he haha

So far i have seen pictures and videos from Abid Sher Ali, Maryam safdar, Nawaz/Shahbaz, Talal Ch, Javed Latif, Rana Tanveer and many other PMLN leaders posting pictures/videos of themselves taking part in Milad to prove they are Muslims as well.

As sad as it is, let's see if these crooks learn from this and not bring Islam into politics? Their whole opposition of Imran Khan is based on propaganda that he is a yahoodi agent.

 

[Waseem]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fauj ko gaaliyaan denay waalo, this is the agreement between Maulvis & our beloved civil Govt in Oct. Govt didnt act upon it & hence the dharna.Whether u agree or disagree with this agreement, this is why TLY ppl came & didnt trust the govt again so Army had to become mediators. <a href="https://t.co/K0nEfs5W0q">pic.twitter.com/K0nEfs5W0q</a></p>— Hamza Ali Abbasi (@iamhamzaabbasi) <a href="https://twitter.com/iamhamzaabbasi/status/936593542172086272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Shocking that majority of people who had been crying about fauj's role are completely silent on all these proofs that PMLN gov had surrendered to these mullahs long before fauj intervened on government and Khadim's request. And no PMLN didn't surrender in fear, Shahbaz Sharif totally supported their demands and even asked for resignation of his own federal minister a month before dharna.

 

[WebGuru]

So far i have seen pictures and videos from Abid Sher Ali, Maryam safdar, Nawaz/Shahbaz, Talal Ch, Javed Latif, Rana Tanveer and many other PMLN leaders posting pictures/videos of themselves taking part in Milad to prove they are Muslims as well.

As sad as it is, let's see if these crooks learn from this and not bring Islam into politics? Their whole opposition of Imran Khan is based on propaganda that he is a yahoodi agent.

As they say "jo boa he ab kaato"

 

[Amoham11]

A few thoughtful points to mention

PTI was unsuccessful with its 'Dharna' despite the hype and buildup. But a thousand molvis successfully beat the State - proving that this country is for moulvis only. The Labbaik folks are now confident and will stop at nothing. No one from the State is willing to confront these thugs. Most depressing sight was DG Rangers handing out a cash prize to these animals.

A few thoughtful points to mention:

first of all can we all drop this "mullah" word and replace it with the likes of Imam, Mufti etc...and i think you all know what im talking about. I feel the word Mullah is no longer holding credibility in this thread.

Second point: I see allot of you courageous guys behind your screens tapping away on your keyboards and spewing pure filth.
Mr Gujjarlife im sure you have a facinating Gujjar life be whatever it is however please do not use the word animal in describing these religous people as you do not personally know them and it is very offensive.

Thirdly- I must stress that it is these animals as you describe them, that may one day perform your Nikkah if your not married yet, say the Azaan to the ears of your new born baby and possibly may even perform your jannaza prayers. Does it make sense why you should be carefull in spewing filth?

Be courageous in supporting the dharna..and leave your bedroom behind.

Thank you

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Nobody is defining Christianity by Law or Constitution

Fundamental problem with Pakistan's constitution is that it violate the rights of minority. No other country defines religion as part of constitution (well not democratic ones), on top of that defining somebody's religion for them...This is violation of Freedom of religion, you have to look at this way, if Qayadanis were majority or sizable minority, can you really make such laws?? - This is coward and shameful law, Only reason we have those, because of really small minority, Pakistanis think they can crush them easily...

Shias and Sunnis has no right to define what Qadayanis want to call them. BTW: Mormon calls them Christian, in US they have churches, they are consider a sect of Christianity, nobody has taken name "Christian" away from them... They don't call them Catholic or Protestant...Qadayani's are not calling themselves Shia or Sunni Muslim...BTW: There is Liberal Catholic Church (LCC), exist, that has nothing to do with Catholic Church, still they live on...

Pope is authority of Catholic, not every Christian in the world listen to adhere to whatever Pop says, Every Sect in Christianity have their own hierarchy of Church, similar to Shia or Sunni or Qadayani, for most part they don't share Mosques...

Why change Secular Constitution, why not Change the religious Constitution (aka Kalma) First?

First two Kalma's of Muslim talk about God and Prophet, no where word "Last" is mentioned, Did God or Prophet forget or made a mistake??

if now Muslims or Sunnis or Wahabi or whoever, think that wording of "Last Prophet" is so important. Why don't you make an amendment to Kalma first before changing Secular Constitution?? - Put your money where mouth is...What, you don't have authority to do that, Ohh that is so sad Then who gave you authority to make it a fundamental requirement for others and that too in Secular Constitution?? :faceplam:

So all the ahadees and Quranic verses regarding "Khatam An Nabiyyin" are wrong and this pathetic statement of yours is the truth???

And FYI we're from The Islamic Republic of Pakistan so I've no idea how a secular constitution is in place there.

 

[yasir]

So all the ahadees and Quranic verses regarding "Khatam An Nabiyyin" are wrong and this pathetic statement of yours is the truth???

And FYI we're from The Islamic Republic of Pakistan so I've no idea how a secular constitution is in place there.

Which Quranic verses declare Prophet as last Prophet?? - If Muhammad himself said that I am the "last" Prophet (aka Ahadees), that does not carry same weight as Quran saying it, at least believers belief, that Quran is word of God...

Constitution of Pakistan is not exactly a religious doctrine, its written and approved by Parliament, most of them were not religious scholars and some of them were not even muslims...Nothing comes from divine as far as constitution is concerned. Pakistan already made a huge mistake by involving religious scholars in the process of writing constitution and making laws, we are still and will keep paying price of not separating church and state, this is 1000 year old principle, they are keeping us backward and poor

We are killing people and persecuting minorities on semantics of words, last Prophet or not. Its a reasonable request that if you are killing people and making such laws, you got to change religious text first, charity begins at home...

 

[saeedhk]

Rizvi received Rs 210 million from govt - TYL faction head Ashraf Jalali