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Forex and Gold/Silver bullion Trading

nh, wt do u reckon i should do, if the hedge, £/pip/kg of silver is much less than the minimum allowed on most spread betting platforms, do u reckon i go around this by maybe opening a forex cfd position? dont know if uve dealt with them before?

As example instead of betting £/pip, i take out a position of value equivalent to that of my silver holding, long gbp short usd, but have it leveraged such that i only put up, say a quarter or a fifth of the enire value, do u think this could work?

I know i will end up paying financing costs (around 1% a month of initial deposit) if my calcualations are correct, but it should help mitigate my usd exposure by at least 70%, 80% imo.

kya khyaal hain bro?
 
Put it simply... No

Amateurs can get away with doing shares and get lucky, whereas you have to be on top of your game to make serious money with Forex.... The forex market is very liquid and very sensitive to multitude of news. It will test your nerve and emotions in ways you probably never experienced before.

Its all down to what strategy you employ and how much loss to gain ratio you tolerate.... The crucial aspect is that you try out a strategy or number of number strategies on dummy accounts before putting doing actual money.

NH has discussed boxed trading...


It would be beneficial if FX traders share their strategies and results.
I have written couple of trading robots (open close based on set criteria, so you don't need to front of charts 24/5.5 and to avoid emotional rush)...and performed back testing...(never actually traded...so academic interest only)

My personal preference is to trade only on technical parameters and just ignore news (but make sure not to do on some specific announcement days) and always trade Stop loss ...

and sell 1/2 lot as soon you get profit = S/L and then you can set trailing stop (if you don't want to be in front of screen)

I have read few books but it's a complex subject as it's hard to beat the system in zero sum game.
 
with the stop losses, how many pips is generally set, i guess its up to individual and their risk apetite also need to study the charts and see where support is. But in general terms is their a good guide?

depends on what timeframe you are in.

5 mins...if you are using EMA/MCAD then flat 10-15 should be ok...otherwise low/high of previous support etc...

In Trading strategy several things are inter-linked.

Period, Criteria of Entry, S/L, Criteria of Exit, Trailing stop. Scale-ins etc.
 
It would be beneficial if FX traders share their strategies and results.
I have written couple of trading robots (open close based on set criteria, so you don't need to front of charts 24/5.5 and to avoid emotional rush)...and performed back testing...(never actually traded...so academic interest only)

My personal preference is to trade only on technical parameters and just ignore news (but make sure not to do on some specific announcement days) and always trade Stop loss ...

and sell 1/2 lot as soon you get profit = S/L and then you can set trailing stop (if you don't want to be in front of screen)

I have read few books but it's a complex subject as it's hard to beat the system in zero sum game.

i trade very little. i am defensive in my money managemnt, i have a few set of criterias, when each one is met without exception i trade.

basically, for a swing trade look for certain indicators using my own time frames not the defaults to see if something is oversold or overbought, then look to the support and resistance points to see how the price and voume behaves in those regions to ascertain entry and exit points.

for a momentum trade, look for a diverging macd, a break through some sort of multi year high is often a very good oppertunity to make a quick return. again confirmed by high volume.

Always confirm your opinion with seeing the volume being traded, high volumes when you are gaining, low when you are losing are good.

my exit point in a gaining position is pretty rigid, try to follow the trend as far as it goes, exit at a predetermined level of pull back, 10%, 20%, etc.

for a losing trade get out as fast as you can, winning trades generally start making money as soon as the trade is placed in my experience.

is your system momentum based, or swing based? can you tell us more about yourself, and your systems and what kind of results they have given you.
 
i trade very little. i am defensive in my money managemnt, i have a few set of criterias, when each one is met without exception i trade.

basically, for a swing trade look for certain indicators using my own time frames not the defaults to see if something is oversold or overbought, then look to the support and resistance points to see how the price and voume behaves in those regions to ascertain entry and exit points.

for a momentum trade, look for a diverging macd, a break through some sort of multi year high is often a very good oppertunity to make a quick return. again confirmed by high volume.

Always confirm your opinion with seeing the volume being traded, high volumes when you are gaining, low when you are losing are good.

my exit point in a gaining position is pretty rigid, try to follow the trend as far as it goes, exit at a predetermined level of pull back, 10%, 20%, etc.

for a losing trade get out as fast as you can, winning trades generally start making money as soon as the trade is placed in my experience.

is your system momentum based, or swing based? can you tell us more about yourself, and your systems and what kind of results they have given you.

as i said I have actually not traded except back testing.

here's the system that i tested with favorable results (back testing)


http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/08/five-minute-momo.asp
 
Hey Hello everyone (and NH in particular)...

I am a Forex and derivatives dealer by profession for last 6 yrs.....

I did not know that i will discuss FX here when i joined a month back but hey i dont mind it.....

Trading and Cricket are my 2 passions.....

looking fwd to chat more with u all
 
Hey Hello everyone (and NH in particular)...

I am a Forex and derivatives dealer by profession for last 6 yrs.....

I did not know that i will discuss FX here when i joined a month back but hey i dont mind it.....

Trading and Cricket are my 2 passions.....

looking fwd to chat more with u all

Hey dude! Looking forward to it!

My first ever thread on PP was on FX, it got deleted! :)

Elraja - Iwill respond to you later dude, got loads on work at the moment.

PS: Gold and Silver looking pretty! :)
 
Hey Hello everyone (and NH in particular)...

I am a Forex and derivatives dealer by profession for last 6 yrs.....

I did not know that i will discuss FX here when i joined a month back but hey i dont mind it.....

Trading and Cricket are my 2 passions.....

looking fwd to chat more with u all

welcome bro, your input would be most welcome. its great for a newbie like me to be able to learn from experienced guys like you and nh.

i tried to get a job in a FX research company, i thought i had a great interview, unfortunatley got rejected, lols.

Hey dude! Looking forward to it!

My first ever thread on PP was on FX, it got deleted! :)

Elraja - Iwill respond to you later dude, got loads on work at the moment.

PS: Gold and Silver looking pretty! :)

dont worry bro, take your time, no problem. i know you think through things before posting them therefore, so i dont mind being patient.

gold and silver indeed looking pretty.
 
up nearly 20% now, nosebleed pace this. i am just waiting to see what happens once $50 / tr oz is breached.
 
that may just prove to be a very wise move.

i forgot its a 4 day weekend again. :facepalm:

4 day week next week too in UK.

Gold now at 1565, touched 1570.

I'm going to hold on but am prepared for a nose dive of a correction fairly soon. At that point I will buy back in becasue there is no way the USA can save the $ and the economy at the same time.

Gold is trying to teach Bernanke a lesson about central banking, but he seems unable to grasp it. Maybe Gold will have to go to $5000 before Bernanke wakes up. Sadly though, by then it will be too late for the $ and the USA. Lets hope and pray he is a better student of the lessons Gold has for him than he was of those Japan had for him.
 
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4 day week next week too in UK.

Gold now at 1565, touched 1570.

I'm going to hold on but am prepared for a nose dive of a correction fairly soon. At that point I will buy back in becasue there is no way the USA can save the $ and the economy at the same time.

Gold is trying to teach Bernanke a lesson about central banking, but he seems unable to grasp it. Maybe Gold will have to go to $5000 before Bernanke wakes up. Sadly though, by then it will be too late for the $ and the USA. Lets hope and pray he is a better student of the lessons Gold has for him than he was of those Japan had for him.

Yeah im holding atm too, 24 hour markets, and three day weeks, not a healthy mix.

Gold seems to rising very steadily, doesnt look overbought technically atm.

did u have a think about the idea of hedging currency risk with a leveraged cfd?

Just wanted your opinion, cos u usually spot the break from the grip, rather than wait to see which direction it spins of the pitch, a little cricket analogy if you like, lols. :ajmal
 
Hi guys, had put some short Nifty trades y'day... booked them today... equity indices have been ranged off late.... throughout the day i have been blogging on PP....its very addictive.....

chalo off 2 sleep now..... do let me know if there are any interesting trade ideas
 
did u have a think about the idea of hedging currency risk with a leveraged cfd?


Hey Bro.

I personally have never dealt with CFDs but I am aware of the risks. In my view if you are willing to risk capital on CFDs then don't. Of course, if CFDs move in your favour you are quids in, and the 25% capital works in your favour, however because if Silver rises then I suspect you'll end end paying heaps and chances are that the rise in Silver will not cover your loss.

Instead I would suggest buying more Silver (using the 25% you are prepared to open a CFD with) to the point you meet the minimum £/point. Also there's no need to go long on GBP and short on USD, just go long on GBP on GBP/USD.

This way you obtain a fixed ratio between your Silver and hedge meaning better risk management.
 
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Hi guys, had put some short Nifty trades y'day... booked them today... equity indices have been ranged off late.... throughout the day i have been blogging on PP....its very addictive.....

Hey dude.

Volume on DJIA and FTSE have been very low lately, I am also suprised (well actually am not) by the fact that the DJIA and FTSE are fast approaching 2008 levels. This doesn't seem right given the UK and USA economy remain in the doldrums. PE ratios on S&P are hyped up to the max.

Somthing tells me this Summer will be a bloodbath.
 
Rep. Ron Paul, the Federal Reserve’s most powerful critic, reacts to Ben Bernanke’s press conference.

I found the press conference to be enlightening in the fact that we heard one, and he held one, and that’s a sign that the Fed knows that they have to be a little more responding to the demand for transparency. When I listened to what had to be said, I wasn’t too enthralled. I’ve heard it all before.

It’s smooth talking, to make current policy sound reasonable, and let it go at that. Because they never admit anything. When it comes to prices, it’s never their fault. I mean, how many different things did he mention about why prices go up, why we have inflation? He never admits it’s the inflation of the money supply that’s the problem.

When he was asked about the dollar, he said, “Well you know, the person in charge for the value of the dollar is the secretary of the Treasury.” Well, Bernanke can triple the money supply, and then he wants to duck the issue that he’s responsible.

He says, “Our position is a strong dollar” ... with constant devaluation, even while he spoke it was devaluing. Against gold, it went down 1.5%. It doesn’t make any sense.
It was more justification for a policy that doesn’t work. There was no explanation on how he’s going to get out of this. He did recognize, though, that price increases are significant and could be a problem in the future. It could be a significant problem for unemployment. He said it softly, but there were some words in there that convinced me that he knows that when inflation is admitted – I think it’s already here – but when he really admits it’s here, he’s really in a box. Because what he’ll have to do is raise interest rates, cut back on all the monetization of all this debt, buying all these securities, and then, in a weak economy, he’s in a mess

He works on the Keynesian assumption that prices go up for other reasons than the monetary reasons.

“It’s the supply and demand...Well, third-world nations are starting to buy more oil, that’s why the price of oil goes up.” And it has nothing to do with the inflation of the monetary system.

So, I think he does a good job for what he has to do, and that is try desperately to make a very, very failed system sound plausible. But from my viewpoint, it isn’t plausible, it’s not workable.

And I so strongly oppose centralized economic planning through monetary policy, especially in a small little group that can manipulate interest rates and the money supply and bail out privileged companies that are too big to fail at the same time the little people suffer. They lose their jobs and their mortgages and their houses.

So, to me, we have to have major monetary reform, and a bit of transparency. A pretense of transparency won’t suffice

Ron Paul - Next US President?
 
Ron Paul is only big on the internet. Seems like a great guy though but won't ever become president.
 
Silver slumps 13% on open, now @ $42.29/oz!!! Just bought another 50 oz.

Gold hits 1577 setting new all time high.

Crazy but I love it!
 
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Gold-Buying Central Banks May Signal Bullion Extending Record Price Rally

Central banks that were net sellers of gold a decade ago are buying the precious metal to reduce their reliance on the dollar as a reserve currency, signaling demand that may extend a record rally in prices.

As developing countries accelerate purchases, gold may reach $2,000 an ounce this year, compared with a record of $1,569.80 today in New York, said Robert McEwen, the chief executive officer of producer U.S. Gold Corp. Euro Pacific Capital’s Michael Pento, who correctly predicted gold’s highs for the past two years, forecasts a 2011 high of $1,600.

Prices reached a record 15 times this month on demand from investors seeking an alternative to the dollar after the currency slumped to the lowest since 2009, U.S. debt widened, and the Federal Reserve signaled April 27 that borrowing costs will remain near zero percent for an extended period. The economy in China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. Treasuries, grew 9.7 percent in the first quarter.

“China is out to have more gold than America, and Russia is aspiring to the same,” McEwen said yesterday in an interview at a Bloomberg Link conference in New York. “When you have debt, you don’t have a lot of flexibility. China wants to show its currency has more backing than the U.S.”

In 2010, central banks became net buyers for the first time in two decades, adding 87 metric tons in official-sector purchases by countries including Bolivia, Sri Lanka and Mauritius, according to World Gold Council data. China, with more than $3 trillion in foreign-currency reserves, plans to set up new funds to invest in precious metals, Century Weekly reported this week. Russia purchased 8 tons of gold in the first quarter.

China, which has just 1.6 percent of its reserves in gold, may invest more than $1 trillion in bullion, Pento said. “China wants to be an international player, and they need to own more gold than they currently have.”

The U.S. Treasury Department projects the government could reach its debt ceiling of $14.3 trillion as soon as mid-May and run out of options for avoiding default by early July. The Fed has kept its benchmark rate between zero percent and 0.25 percent since December 2008 to help stimulate the economy, driving the dollar down 11 percent against a basket of six major currencies during the past year.

“Until monetary policy changes, you’re going to continue to see gold go up,” said Michael Cuggino, who helps manage $12 billion at Permanent Portfolio Funds in San Francisco.

“Ultimately the best thing we can do to create strong fundamentals for the dollar in the medium term is first, keep inflation low, which maintains the buying power of the dollar, and second, create a stronger economy,” Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said on April 27.

As of April, China was the sixth-largest official holder of gold, with 1,054.1 tons, according to World Gold Council estimates. The U.S. has the most, with 8,133.5 tons, or 74.8 percent of the nation’s currency reserves, council data show.

Central-bank buying may have the same impact on gold as the introduction of exchange-traded funds, Cuggino said. Prices have more than tripled since the SPDR Gold Trust, the biggest ETF backed by bullion, was introduced in November 2004.

Central banks in emerging markets may aim to hold 2 percent to 8 percent of their foreign-currency reserves in gold, Francisco Blanch, the head of commodities research at Bank of America Merrill Lynch in New York, said in an interview.

Gold is “close to” its cyclical high, said Blanch, who expects the metal to average $1,500 this year.

“The enemies of gold are rising interest rates and a balanced budget,” said Pento of Euro Pacific Capital in New York. “I look for a summer swoon once Bernanke exits the bond market. You’re going to have a temporary rise in real interest rates.”

The Fed said it would buy $600 billion in U.S. Treasuries through June.

The Federal Funds rate would have to rise to “Volcker” levels before gold enters a bear market, said Gold Corp.’s McEwen, who expects the metal to rise to $5,000 over three to four years.

Prices have advanced 10 percent this year, extending a decade of gains in which gold jumped sixfold from a low in 1999. The all-time inflation adjusted record is $2,338.92, based on the value on Jan. 21, 1980, according to a calculator on the Web site of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis.

Former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker ended gold’s rally to a then-record $873 by raising borrowing costs to 20 percent in March 1980.
 
Silver slumps 13% on open, now @ $42.29/oz!!! Just bought another 50 oz.

Gold hits 1577 setting new all time high.

Crazy but I love it!

great timing bro, how on earth did you manage to buy it at that price, only some random asian markets are open.

comex margin call takes effect i think, someone also pbly shorted in thin trading in asia, silver falls and then yoyos, man i am not used to volatility like this, i rate anyone who trades silver all the time, must have some nerves of steel, but with 24 hour exposure you could make a mint. lols.

guess i should learn to ignore 24 hour charts, esp in more remote markets.

seriously i just looked at charts again, and am editing my post, how on earth did u buy at that price man. are you sure you dont have contacts in some chinese jp morgan branch dude.
 
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great timing bro, how on earth did you manage to buy it at that price, only some random asian markets are open.

When you place an order the price is locked on Spot price, the funds transfered when the dealer processes order. (I used Coininvestdirect.com). The monies will be transfered later today and Bullion delivery will take place in about a week). Of course you have to be awake and I wasn't expecting such a drop so quickly. (I was up to place my FX trades!)


comex margin call takes effect i think, someone also pbly shorted in thin trading in asia, silver falls and then yoyos, man i am not used to volatility like this, i rate anyone who trades silver all the time, must have some nerves of steel, but with 24 hour exposure you could make a mint. lols.

Definitly a massive short on low volume causing the Silver flash crash, but from my perspective any dip is the moment to buy since Gold and Silver will never hit zero!


Oh BTW - US dollar and shares climb on news of Bin Laden's death - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13256943

Funny how gold did not tank at the same time as Silver.
 
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When you place an order the price is locked on Spot price, the funds transfered when the dealer processes order. (I used Coininvestdirect.com). The monies will be transfered later today and Bullion delivery will take place in about a week). Of course you have to be awake and I wasn't expecting such a drop so quickly. (I was up to place my FX trades!)

Definitly a massive short on low volume causing the Silver flash crash, but from my perspective any dip is the moment to buy since Gold and Silver will never hit zero!

Oh BTW - US dollar and shares climb on news of Bin Laden's death - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13256943

Funny how gold did not tank at the same time as Silver.

that was my first thought too, thats why i didnt worry about it too much, its like the reverse of last week when silver shot up on low trading in asia.

the whole obl thing seems really random, ill reserve my opinion on the matter as its not important to this topic but if it makes obama more popular its terrible for the dollar in the long run.

gold had a small reversal, from 1570 to about 1550 at that time, overall the gold market has a lot more inertia, and it appears harder to manipulate, due to the high upfront cost of gold.

most of the dips/peaks wrt to gold, dollar, silver seem to be retracing in less than a day. shame how most headlines are still of the flash crash that lasted about an hour last night. :29:
 
that was my first thought too, thats why i didnt worry about it too much, its like the reverse of last week when silver shot up on low trading in asia.

the whole obl thing seems really random, ill reserve my opinion on the matter as its not important to this topic but if it makes obama more popular its terrible for the dollar in the long run.

gold had a small reversal, from 1570 to about 1550 at that time, overall the gold market has a lot more inertia, and it appears harder to manipulate, due to the high upfront cost of gold.

most of the dips/peaks wrt to gold, dollar, silver seem to be retracing in less than a day. shame how most headlines are still of the flash crash that lasted about an hour last night. :29:

Gold just dipped to 1516, then back up to 1541, tomorrow seems like a down day for Gold too.

Meanwhle....


Bin Laden death won’t bring stability

Despite an initial market fallout for oil in markets, the killing of Osama bin Laden won’t quell concerns on petroleum prices, a panel of economists and asset managers said Monday at a conference in Los Angeles.

The death of bin Laden could create even more instability to the Middle East and northern African nations now undergoing turmoil, potentially driving up oil prices and creating more economic strife for the U.S. and other developed countries.

“I don’t want to sound pessimistic, but I’m not sure [it is] great,” Ruben Vardanian, chief executive of the Moscow-based asset management company Troika Dialog Group, told a moderator at the Milken Conference.

Vardanian said any stability hoped for with the toppling of perhaps the U.S.’s most notorious nemesis is likely to be a fallacy in today’s world.

“Stability is not necessarily there,” he said. “It’s part of new life.”

Vardanian was on a panel that included Pimco Chief Executive Mohamed El-Erian, Guggenheim Chief Investment Officer Scott Minerd and Laura Tyson, former chair of the president’s council of economic advisers under the Clinton Administration and current University of California, Berkeley professor.

While the group diverged widely on the causes and status of the current global economic situation, they all agreed that although bin Laden’s death was a gain for the U.S. in military terms, its effect on the markets could be detrimental.

“It might be equally destabilizing to the oil market,” Tyson said.

Their views were echoed by noted economist and forecaster Nouriel Roubini, who said in a separate discussion at the annual gathering of economists and business leaders that much of the world stage will remain as is.

“The fact that he’s gone doesn’t significantly change the geopolitical situation,” Roubini said. “I think the death of bin Laden doesn’t significantly change that.”

And Roubini warned that further increases in oil prices could lead to double-dip recession for such developed nations as the U.S., Japan, Germany and Great Britain. He said it’s not speculation that’s pushing up oil prices as in past spikes, but rather increased demand from China and other developing nations.

“If oil prices rise another 20%, that could create a double dip,” Roubini said.

Roubini and the panelists devoted considerable time to bin Laden and the after-effects of his demise, but the group had assembled to dissect global economics. One key theme running throughout both Roubini’s talk and those of the panelists was whether other nations such as China would overtake the U.S. as the central global economic power and how long that would take.

El-Erian said that while the U.S. remained the biggest player, it no longer dominated the world economic stage. Using a musical metaphor, he likened the current world economy to that of an orchestra playing without the one single conductor that it once had. When the economic crisis of 2008 hit and the U.S. nearly fell into depression, various nations got a new sheet of music.

Now that developing nations such as China and Brazil are forging out into their own directions, getting those economies in tune with mature countries like the U.S. could be tough, especially if oil prices remain high and the housing market doesn’t stabilize.

“Different sections of this orchestra are playing different tunes,” he said. “Let’s hope you can get a conductor. But don’t plan on it.”

Still, Roubini said the U.S.’s economic might remains stronger than that of any other nation. He said any discussion of moving away from the dollar as the world’s reserve currency is premature as it would take several decades for that to occur.

“You could say the U.S. is in an area of relative decline,” Roubini said.

He added, however, that the U.S. won’t see a return to massive, quick growth as in past upsurges.

“This recession won’t be [V-shaped], it will be a ‘U’,” he said. “Four percent growth is like going to Mars. It’s not going to happen.
 
Salaam Namak H. bhai,
Thanks very much for all the information you have posted here -- very useful.. I didn't know anything about gold/silver bullion before I reading this thread :)
I'm now about to set-up an account with coininvestdirect, which is the one I believe you are using for purchasing gold / silver bullions...?

A bit of a silly question: Where should the gold/silver bullions be stored once I've purchased them... Do you think it's worth installing a safe etc. in the house? I don't particularly like the idea of keeping these at home much anyway... Would appreciate any advice on this....

Secondly, I was reading up some where about "Gold money" which I believe is allowing banks etc to purchase the bullions on your behalf... I think the main benefit is that you don't need to worry about bank lockers etc.? Can you please share your thoughts on this? Who should I go with if I do decide to down this route?

Thanks very much for your advice...
 
As for quantity, I would recommend 250g bars at a minimum. Reason being is the premiums on these bars are inversely proportional to the weight. The more you buy the less premium you pay (don’t go for smaller bars as you’d have to hold them longer before you profit).


Coins are a great investment too as certain types of Gold coins are exempt from Capital Gains Tax (Kruggers, Sovereigns, Britannias) – reason for this is that these coin are considered a legal tender given the Queen’s face is on the coin.

However, with coins, the premiums can vary, so you may have to hold on to Gold coins longer than you would compared to a Kilo Gold Bullion.


NH bhai,
Are there any tax benefits in purchasing Silver coins or what you have stated above only applies to Gold coins?

As far as I can tell, the premium difference between buying Silver coins (1oz) vs 1kg Silver bar isn't that much... So, would it be better to get silver coins instead of bullions ?

Thanks again..
 
comex raising margin requriements on silver again. second raise within a week. :facepalm:
 
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Salaam Namak H. bhai,
Thanks very much for all the information you have posted here -- very useful.. I didn't know anything about gold/silver bullion before I reading this thread :)
I'm now about to set-up an account with coininvestdirect, which is the one I believe you are using for purchasing gold / silver bullions...?

A bit of a silly question: Where should the gold/silver bullions be stored once I've purchased them... Do you think it's worth installing a safe etc. in the house? I don't particularly like the idea of keeping these at home much anyway... Would appreciate any advice on this....

Secondly, I was reading up some where about "Gold money" which I believe is allowing banks etc to purchase the bullions on your behalf... I think the main benefit is that you don't need to worry about bank lockers etc.? Can you please share your thoughts on this? Who should I go with if I do decide to down this route?

Thanks very much for your advice...


Salaam bro.

I would always suggest you keep store the Gold at home, don't tell anyone of course. Reason being is that since Gold is one of the most dense metals in the universe, a couple kilos can be hidden very easily. I personally see no point in buying Gold bullion, then paying someone to look after it. If you can;t touch it, you do not own it.

Plus the downside with storing it in a safe at a bank etc is that you have to pay to look after it, and the rise in Gold may not cover this payment (I think it's something like £1000 per year depending on which bank etc).

As for Gold money, check out www.bullionvault.com you can buy Gold and Silver and they convert your holdings into cash, in an account. The value of your account will reflect the price of Gold/Silver. This is a great way to accumulate GOld/Silver, however, a] it's not Bullion, and b] for you to sell your holdings and lock you profit, you need to fin a buyer. With Bullion, a Bullion dealer will always buy off your bullion off you at spot rate.

Hope this helps!
 
comex raising margin requriements on silver again. second raise within a week. :facepalm:

All those criminal paper shorts on Silver are gonna be flushed out. Massive drop in price before a solid rise based on physical.

How deep are your stops? I would double them if I could.
 
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NH bhai,
Are there any tax benefits in purchasing Silver coins or what you have stated above only applies to Gold coins?

As far as I can tell, the premium difference between buying Silver coins (1oz) vs 1kg Silver bar isn't that much... So, would it be better to get silver coins instead of bullions ?

Thanks again..

Salaam bro.

There's no tax benifit on Silver. Silver is subject to VAT.

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/silver.html


Gold is the best as it is exempt from VAT (EU directive)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vgoldmanual/vgold1700.htm
http://www.eubusiness.com/topics/finance/vat-directive/


VAT is a EU thing, not a UK thing.

Buy Bullion and hold on to it. Of course with VAT on Silver you will have to hold on to it much longer in order to profit from it, so I would suggest you buy Gold first, then accumulate Silver via www.bullionvault.com, or simply by 100oz Silver Bullion bars.

Hope this helps!
 
Looks like I made the right call on banking the profits last week with the leveraged silver ETF....

LSIL is down 18% today!!
 
All those criminal paper shorts on Silver are gonna be flushed out. Massive drop in price before a solid rise based on physical.

How deep are your stops? I would double them if I could.

thats what i thought, i break even around the 44 mark, may just take wt ive got and re evaluate some time next week.

ive got some stuff coming up, and wont be able to monitor prices often.

halifax doesnt let me put stop losses on funds, so the volatility is a problem. i have a mental stop loss, but if anything i think i should tighten it, considering the short term possibilities.
 
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Silver 5% down @ $43.58

I'm rebuying @ $40

Gold holding up at 1542, down 1%, but she's gonna blow.

Will rebuy gold @ $1500
 
U.S. Treasury: China Has Decreased Its Holdings of U.S. Debt

Friday, April 29, 2011
By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) - Mainland China has decreased its holdings of U.S. Treasury securities since last October, according to a report updated today by the U.S. Treasury Department.

Since September 2008, when they eclipsed Japan, entities in mainland China have been the largest foreign owners of U.S. government debt. But, as indicated by the Treasury Department chart linked here, Chinese ownership of U.S. Treasury securities peaked in October 2010 and has declined in each of the four most recent months reported by the Treasury Department.

At the end of October 2010, China owned 1.1753 trillion ... in U.S. Treasury securities. That dropped to $1.1641 trillion by the end of November, $1.1601 trillion by the end of December, $1.1547 trillion by the end of January, and $1.1541 trillion by Feb...
 
Silver 5% down @ $43.58

I'm rebuying @ $40

Gold holding up at 1542, down 1%, but she's gonna blow.

Will rebuy gold @ $1500

im out for the time being, it was getting close to my mental stop loss. Didnt hit it, but looking at price action over last hour and a bit since i sold, i guess i made right decision.

i was leveraged as well, so it was too volatile for me to be comfortable all things considered..

i know you dont like charting bro, but support would be around $38 mark, and lower trading range is about $39 if it does get bearish.
 
I'll buy the ETF when silver is $35-$38....

Amazing decline in the leveraged ETF today... 23%!! I was tempted to buy the short silver ETF but its far too risky for my liking.
 
I'll buy the ETF when silver is $35-$38....

Amazing decline in the leveraged ETF today... 23%!! I was tempted to buy the short silver ETF but its far too risky for my liking.

ends the day at 117, would pbly be around 105 to 110 if markets were open atm, shorting is risky but if u are good at it you can make money fast, declines tend to be a lot faster than price build ups. provided you have a sensible stop loss.
 
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This will be a blip on the screen. 2011 will see gold go to 1750 or more, silver $80. Metals will outpace all currencies for another year. Just wait until China's spring pops.
 
Silver plunges another 4%!! Now at @$41

Preparing for 100oz purchase. . .
 
What has the ‘war on terror’ really cost?

When Japan finally surrendered at the end of World War II, patriotic, cheering crowds thronged the streets to celebrate — including, most famously, in New York’s Times Square.

When news broke Sunday that U.S. forces had finally killed Osama bin Laden, chanting, cheering crowds figured they’d follow suit.

But that’s where the similarity ends.

Americans made real sacrifices in the Second World War. Millions served under arms. Most families had soldiers in harm’s way, and many lost them. Even those in civilian work at home bore direct burdens. They accepted rationing and lowered standards of living to help the war. They accepted high taxes. While the Federal Government ran up huge deficits, these were largely financed here by private sector savings here at home.

Now consider the legacy of the past 10 years and our “war on terror.”

Few served under arms. We do not have the draft. And perhaps we don’t need one for this war.

But what other sacrifices has the population made?

Far from paying the tab, we have scrupulously avoided any costs at all. OK, so you stand in line longer at airports. You get photographed. Big deal.

How much has the war on al Qaeda actually cost?

Nobody knows for sure. For one idea, I looked first at the budget data from the federal Office of Management and Budget. From 2002 through this year, Uncle Sam has spent a total of $6.5 trillion on the Pentagon, the Department of Homeland Security and the Office of Veterans’ Affairs.

If that spending had merely increased in line with inflation, we would have spent $4 trillion instead. The gap — the increase in defense and related expenditure over inflation since 9/11 — comes to $2.5 trillion. So maybe that’s one estimate.

Linda Bilmes, a professor at Harvard’s Kennedy School and one of the leading experts on the topic, says the direct costs of the “war on terror” have so far exceeded $2 trillion. She says she believes that when the full tab is compiled, including the costs of a lifetime of medical care for the wounded, the costs will come to between $5 trillion and $6 trillion.

How much of this burden have the rest of us actually paid?

None of it.

On the eve of 9/11, U.S. gross federal debt stood at $5.5 trillion. Today it’s around $14 trillion. In other words, over the past 10 years we’ve put more than $8 trillion on the national credit card. That’s maybe four times the total direct costs of the “war on terror” to date, and more than the total likely bill.

And of course, unlike in World War II, our government has been forced to borrow most of this money from abroad, because during the same period American businesses and households also embarked on a debt orgy.

From the summer of 2001 until now, U.S. homeowners doubled their mortgage debts from $5.2 trillion to $10.1 trillion. Consumer credit rose 50% as shoppers went on a spree. Corporate debt also rose 50%, as companies mortgaged their futures and handed the money to stockholders and executives. Our total national debts, according to the Federal Reserve, have doubled to about $55 trillion.

In other words, not only have we not made material sacrifices for this war — we’ve taken it as an excuse to party.

Perhaps this is why no “relief rally” turned up on Wall Street on Monday, to the consternation of the commentators. Relief from what? Compare this infantile behavior to the discipline, maturity, dedication and sacrifice of those under arms who are actually fighting the war on al Qaeda.

The Pentagon says that 4,704 American servicemen and women have been killed in action in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. (Leave aside, please, the dispute about whether Iraq was necessary. The troops served heroically.) Another 43,184 have been wounded. Many of those have been wounded grievously, coming home without eyes, or limbs, or with head traumas, or with other terrible injuries, to pick up what pieces they can of their shattered lives.

The numbers don’t even scratch at the cost. For each serviceman or servicewoman killed or wounded, think of all the loved ones whose lives, too, will never be the same. The heartache will last as long as they live.

For all these heroic Americans, 9/11 was just the beginning of the horrors. They have made incredible sacrifices and continue to do so. Sunday’s news is for them, and they deserve our gratitude.

If the rest of us want bragging rights, we have to earn them first.

The $ walks on the grassy knoll.
 
The retrace was as swift as the rise!!

NH, whats the reason for the silver decline... overbought?
 
nh did you buy or still waiting?

imo it may still go a bit lower. im hoping for high 30s.

just a little thing i noticed from the charts, when there has been a drop there has been a sharp sell in america about mid day, around 6 or 7 uk time.
 
nh did you buy or still waiting?

imo it may still go a bit lower. im hoping for high 30s.

I'm waiting for $40, $35, $30 marks; on each mark I will purchase 100/oz




just a little thing i noticed from the charts, when there has been a drop there has been a sharp sell in america about mid day, around 6 or 7 uk time.

It's related to Gold and Silver fixing that occurs twice daily in London. G&S fixing sets the physical price and is seperate from Paper price.
 
I'm waiting for $40, $35, $30 marks; on each mark I will purchase 100/oz

It's related to Gold and Silver fixing that occurs twice daily in London. G&S fixing sets the physical price and is seperate from Paper price.

oh cool i get it now, u kno a lot. :razzaq
 
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Asian trio to study dollar alternative

Officials from China, Japan and South Korea agreed on Wednesday to study a proposal to use their own currencies for regional trade settlement instead of the U.S. dollar, according to a Dow Jones Newswires report.

The report cited a joint communiqué issued in Hanoi.

Finance officials from the three big Asian economies said they were mindful of challenges arising from inflation, noting commodity prices were high while volatile capital inflows were also a concern.

They also agreed to study regional infrastructure financing and disaster risk insurance, the report said.

The finance ministers were meeting alongside an Asia Development Bank annual meeting held concurrently in Vietnam’s capital
 
falls below $40..... LSIL down 33%, freefall, lets see what it does around $38.
 
falls below $40..... LSIL down 33%, freefall, lets see what it does around $38.

33% down? That's leverage for you. Down 6.5% on Comex.

ADP jobs reports was lower than expected plus ISM index declined to 52.8 from 57.3; panic selling on the scene. DJIA and FTSE taking tripple digit hits!
 
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sorry i worded it badly, 33% down from its high last week. noobie error, meanwhile on a positive note for gold...

Reuters May 4, 2011 – 9:52 AM ET | Last Updated: May 4 2011 7: 47 AM ET

Mexico increased its gold reserves more than tenfold in February and March to just over 100 tonnes, ranking it 33rd out of the 50 top official holders of gold, according to figures from the International Monetary Fund.

Mexico now owns 100.15 tonnes of gold, or 3.22 million ounces, up from about 6.84 tonnes, or 220,000 ounces at the end of January, according to data on the IMF website.

The World Gold Council, an industry group, said earlier this year emerging market central banks were expected to be the biggest official buyers of gold, which is near record highs, in 2011, as they seek to diversify some of their reserves out of U.S.


the 78.5 tonnes bought in March is the largest monthly purchase by a central bank in at least a decade
 
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33% down? That's leverage for you. Down 6.5% on Comex.

ADP jobs reports was lower than expected plus ISM index declined to 52.8 from 57.3; panic selling on the scene. DJIA and FTSE taking tripple digit hits!

Its not been below 20% as far as I can tell.

ElRaja - where you getting your quotes from?

Incase anyone is interested shareprice.co.uk provides free live prices of all shares and ETFs
 
Its not been below 20% as far as I can tell.

ElRaja - where you getting your quotes from?

Incase anyone is interested shareprice.co.uk provides free live prices of all shares and ETFs

i meant from last weeks high. roughly 100/150 = 66% :|
 
the 78.5 tonnes bought in March is the largest monthly purchase by a central bank in at least a decade

Every government and their lapdogs are buying gold. Pansy Gordon Brown sold all ours at rock bottom prices!
 
silver just touched below $39. i thought $38 may be a buying zone, but atm the bears look in control.
 
I've topped up on Gold Bullion @ 1500 and Silver @ 40, and 35.

Margins requirements have increased on both Gold and Silver this week.

Flushing out the speculators; panic selling in full affect too.

Yeeee haaaa!

As far as I am concerned, the fundamentals have not changed, the $ remains toasts, violent pullbacks are a buying opportunity.
 
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I've topped up on Gold Bullion @ 1500 and Silver @ 40, and 35.

Margins requirements have increased on both Gold and Silver this week.

Flushing out the speculators; panic selling in full affect too.

Yeeee haaaa!

As far as I am concerned, the fundamentals have not changed, the $ remains toasts, violent pullbacks are a buying opportunity.

watching and waiting....

this may develop into a fantastic buying opportunity.

is there any likelihood that comex may lower margin requirements if volatility reduces?
 
Speculators seen leading commodities crash

Analysts offered a wide variety of reasons for Thursday’s plunge in commodities, but many some agreed the main force behind the drop might simply be a matter of stampeding speculators.

“It all began with silver, which started falling sharply late last week when CME Group increased margin requirements on trades,” said BMO Financial Group chief economist Sherry Cooper in a note Thursday.

Indeed, the CME’s repeated hikes to the silver margin requirements sent the metal, which as of April 29 had risen nearly 60% for the year, tumbling, with benchmark silver futures losing more than 25% since then.

But a variety of other news, including a Wall Street Journal report that billionaire financier George Soros was selling off his holdings, helped the losses snowball, and on Thursday, silver fell 8% on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, its largest one-day percentage drop since Dec. 1, 2008.

This touched off massive selling across the commodities complex.

“Silver really just burnt off in a big way and that fed through to other commodities,” said Michael Turner, strategist at RBC Capital Markets.

Oil was especially hard hit by Thursday’s follow-on crash, dropping as low as $99.35 during the North American session, its heaviest drop in percentage terms since April 2009.

Turner says that the dollar’s rise after the European Central Bank failed to signal further near-term interest-rate hikes early Thursday helped turn silver’s drop into a stampede out of almost all commodities.

“I think the whole world has been short dollars for a couple of years now and long everything else, then once silver started to crash it was time to get out of everything else,” he said.

Independent oil trader and author Dan Dicker agreed, saying crude’s reaction to the drop was “great proof of just how much speculative money there was in the oil market.

Noting that much of the drop included a large volume of margin selling, he added that the fall also showed “just how much stupid money there is in the oil game.”

But despite the speculative nature of the drop, analysts at Lloyds Bank said Friday that some economic fundamentals actually point to even lower prices for some commodities.

“Many of them have looked frothy for a while and have perhaps accelerated beyond the pace justified by the global recovery,” they said in a research note.

But they also added that “some perspective is required,” citing the fact that the Thomson Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index, which tracks global commodities prices is “actually marginally below the levels of five years ago, so it’s hard to argue that commodity prices are headed for a massive decline given that global [gross domestic product] is above the levels of five years ago.”
 
Stunning decline in silver ETF... from $148 to now $63!

I dodged a bullet on that one last week... phew!!... More luck than design.
 
Stunning decline in silver ETF... from $148 to now $63!

I dodged a bullet on that one last week... phew!!... More luck than design.

i was kinda miffed i missed the high, now im jst happy i got out break even.
 
Leveraged ETF is only appealing if the direction moves in your favour, in the sense that it's not a 1:1 ratio so will require more upfront. No wonder speculators are bricking it from increased margins.

Comex movement was around -$15 this week; slow and steady decline, doesn;t hurt a position as much as a leveraged one. (The spread has remained constant through out. )

i was kinda miffed i missed the high, now im jst happy i got out break even.

Don't worry, there's plenty of more highs to come. QE3 on the horizon + China off loading its $ holdings. . . .
 
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Silver Futures Plunge 27% in Week, Most Since 1975; Gold Rebounds on Comex

Silver futures fell, capping the biggest weekly plunge since at least 1975, on mounting sales by investors following increases in Comex margin requirements. Gold rebounded, halting a three-day slide.

Silver tumbled 27 percent this week after CME Group Ltd., the Comex owner, boosted the cash amount needed for a speculative position by 84 percent in two weeks. Yesterday, holdings of the metal in exchange-traded products dropped the most in three years. Gold had the largest weekly drop in a year.

“At the close of business on Monday, silver’s got another bump in margins,” said Frank McGhee, the head dealer at Integrated Brokerage Services LLC in Chicago. “Gold doesn’t have the technical breakdown that silver’s had. All gold has to do is hold its value when everything else crumbles around it.”

Silver futures for July delivery fell 95.3 cents, or 2.6 percent, to settle at $35.287 an ounce at 2:11 p.m. on the Comex in New York. On April 25, the price reached $49.845, a 31-year high.

The minimum amount of cash that must be deposited when borrowing from brokers to trade will rise to $21,600 a contract after May 9, CME Group said on May 4. That’s an increase from $11,745 two weeks ago.

“The higher cash-margin requirements simply cannot be met by all participants, and when a trader can’t make margin, the underlying security is often liquidated,” Lachlan Shaw, a commodity analyst at Commonwealth Bank of Australia (CBA), said in a report. “Further silver-price falls are possible.”

ETP Holdings Tumble

Silver assets held in ETPs tumbled 3.6 percent to 14,546.99 metric tons yesterday, the biggest decline since Jan. 2, 2008, while gold holdings fell 0.7 percent to 2,057.08 tons, the biggest drop in three months, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The liquidation in precious metals has been “egregiously violent,” said Dennis Gartman, an economist and the editor of the Suffolk, Virginia-based Gartman Letter. “Speculative fervor needed to have a bit of cold water splashed in its face.”

Gold futures for June delivery rose $10.20, or 0.7 percent, to $1,491.60 an ounce. Yesterday, the price touched $1,462.50, the lowest since April 14. This week, the metal dropped 4.2 percent, the most since May 2010.

“Gold below $1,500 is a line in the sand,” said Adam Klopfenstein, a senior market strategist at Lind-Waldock in Chicago. “There’s a scramble for gold because a lot of people don’t want to miss the move up.”

The metal reached a record $1,577.40 on May 2.

Barclays Capital recommended buying gold after the 4.9 percent drop in the previous three days.

Palladium futures for June delivery rose $5.50, or 0.8 percent, to $716.30 an ounce on the New York Mercantile Exchange. This week, the metal dropped 9.6 percent, the most since July.

Platinum futures for July delivery gained $8.20, or 0.5 percent, to $1,786.40 an ounce. This week, the price dropped 4.2 percent, the most since November.
 
China lost $271 bn from debt holdings due USD depreciation

Although the government is well aware of the necessity to diversify its foreign exchange assets to lower risks, other options cannot match the strength and security of US debt in the short term, Wang Jun, an economist at the China Centre for International Economic Exchange said.

The euro, for example, has tumbled during the European sovereign debt crisis and is therefore also a risky investment option, analysts said.

Concerns about the security of China's huge holdings of US bond holdings have risen recently after Standard & Poor's (S&P), a major credit agency, lowered the outlook for US sovereign debt.

On April 19, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei urged the US administration to adopt "responsible policies and measures" to protect the interests of investors.

Zhang Jianhua, head of research at the PBOC, the central bank, said that concerns about a possible failure of the heavily indebted US government to repay its debt could drive treasury yields higher and cause US debt prices to fluctuate.

Eric Maskin, professor at Princeton University in New Jersey and the 2007 Nobel laureate in economics, told China Daily that possible further reduction of China's holdings of US debt will not bother US, and overseas holders have no reason to cut the debt holdings because there is no real problem with the US economy.

It's possible that the US could stage another round of quantitative easing in the second half of this year if recovery of the US economy doesn't make significant progress, "and that would benefit US debt-holders because these countries want to see a stronger US economy", Maskin said.

Wang Jun suggested that the government explore other investment channels instead of Treasury bonds, such as exchanging the debt for shares in infrastructure construction programs in the US and supporting the overseas expansion of Chinese enterprises.

Analysts have also suggested that China use the capital to buy energy and resources assets overseas.

But such a shift in investment strategy is unrealistic given the various barriers set by foreign governments, said Li Wei, an economist at Standard Chartered Bank in China.

The central bank is also planning new investment funds to diversify the foreign reserves holdings, the New Century Weekly reported on April 25.

The proposed funds will invest some of the foreign reserves in the energy and precious metal markets, it said.
 
Yo yo yo!

Looks like we're heading into a bloodbath summer. Greece default is imminent, DJIA, S&P, FTSE, and Nikkei lack the impetus to break key resistance levels. Once QE2 is over, it's look out below!

Gold and Silver should benifit from a Greece default, but as always, fear will over take fundamentals. I'm on the sidelines at the moment and will wait till June 23rd before I move into position. Also look out for the USA debt ceiling conundrum during mid-August. USA have no option but to raise the debt ceiling which by all accounts will bolster Gold and Silver but Republicans will turn the debt ceiling into a political issue; expect serious volatility in the FX markets in the months to come.

I'll be back posting in this thread on a regular basis once I'm back in the UK.
 
PS: Forget the Euro, forget the $, forget all the other currencies, when fear hits the fan, among other things, only precious metals will shine.

The world monetary leaders have no more clues and zero ammunition on how to fix this financial mess any more than the old IMF head who couldn't keep his zipper closed.
 
Greece to immediately sell state assets; meanwhile Gold moves higher and is trading in record breaking territory in GBP. :)
 
Well folks, now that I am back in the UK I can concentrate on more important things!

Gold and Silver tanking along with the markets, fear is kicking in over Euro debasement for sure.

Bernanke hasn't ruled out QE3, though I am convinced once the summer of doom plays out, Silver and Gold will rally to new records. Also note, Euro banks are purchasing Gold Bullion this week over fears the Euro will plummet to parity with $.

Buckle up.
 
i know you arent big on technicals nh, but i might post some weekly silver charts i been looking at later, they show a real bullish divergence on a very long scale.

i dont think that silver and gold will go anywhere in the near future, but a low $33, or $32 price point would be very attractive, dont know if i could resist then simply for the long term exposure.
 
i dont think that silver and gold will go anywhere in the near future, but a low $33, or $32 price point would be very attractive, dont know if i could resist then simply for the long term exposure.

I agree on a short term basis. Though with a Greece default on the horizon, along with the peripheral Euro nations, I believe Gold and Silver will plummet one last time before ascending to record highs. Fear will be the driving force. As such, at the moment I am staying on the sidelines before re-entering on Bullion purchases.

However, I am shorting Comex Gold and Silver at the moment, with Bullion as a hedge to rising prices.

Personally, I am going re-enter on Gold Bullion at every $100 drop, and Silver Bullion at every $10 drop. (Euro default will result in violent swings).
 
In gold terms, US house prices are down to levels not seen for over 25 years

06242011_US_Housing_In_Gold.png
 
No, You’re Not Imagining It – The Gold Miners Are Tanking
Conventional wisdom — backed up by years of observation — states that gold mining shares tend to outperform the underlying metal in good times because they’re “leveraged to the price of gold.” That is, their extraction costs are more-or-less fixed, so when gold rises, most of the increase flows directly a miner’s bottom line, increasing its earnings at a rate that exceeds the metal’s move.

With gold near a record, most miners should put up ridiculous earnings in the year ahead, which should make their shares act like tech circa 1998, right?

Nope. The biggest miners, whose shares populate the GDX gold miner ETF, did outperform gold (represented here by the GLD ETF) during most of its recent epic run, just as you’d expect. But in April the two trends diverged, and lately the divergence has become a chasm. Gold is up 22% in the past 12 months and the big miners are, as a group, virtually unchanged.

GDX-vs-GLD2.jpg


This is painful and humbling for investors who bet on gold by loading up on mining shares, only to discover that they were right on the macro but wrong on the implementation. But one person’s pain is another’s opportunity, and the market appears to be offering a whopper here.

Assuming that the long-term relationship between gold and the miners holds — and there’s no reason to think it won’t — then the trend lines will converge at some point in the coming year. This can happen in several ways: They can both fall, but gold more than mining shares. They can both rise, but mining shares can rise more. Or gold can tread water while the miners go up.

Which means there are two ways to play it: Buy the miners and ride them, which will work if gold goes up. Or short gold and buy the miners, in which case you don’t care where gold goes as long as the miner/metal relationship reverts to normal. The first is simpler but only works in a rising gold price scenario. The second is an arbitrage that should work no matter what gold does in the year ahead, though it carries an emotional price, since shorting gold is disturbing on a lot of levels.

On the other hand the idea of making money while being short gold — in the middle of a global currency meltdown — has a certain contrarian appeal.

One final thought: If the big miners are underperforming because of fears that they can’t replace the reserves they’re consuming, then we’re in for a buyout binge as they use their rising cash flow to gobble up the juniors with the most accessible reserves. So the small-cap miners will end up being the best part of this market.
 
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