Gary Kirsten, Jason Gillespie, and Azhar Mahmood appointed as White-ball, Red-ball, and Assistant Coach respectively of the Pakistan Cricket Team

[Abid Z]

People cheerleading for these coaches right now would be asking for their heads after a year or so. Pakistanis after all these years haven’t understood that coaches make no difference at this level. Pakistan lacks talent and skill set. They need to overhaul their club and school cricket. You can’t win a tournament when your entire batting revolves around just 1 player (Babar) who would struggle to get into other top teams.

Coaches make a massive difference. If only you knew how bad England were before Duncan fletcher or how awful Sri Lanka were before Dav Whatmore or how Gary Kirsten transformed India you wouldn’t write this.

 

[cricketmania22]

During a press conference, Pakistan's assistant coach, Azhar Mahmood, said:

"By now, the average score we are scoring is 157 while batting first, and in the second innings, it's 155. The top teams in the world, India and Australia, have averages of 189 and 186, respectively. If we see this series, although we should have won by a very good margin, we can't disrespect anyone; they are upcoming stars of New Zealand. They have displayed talent and played disciplined cricket. In our case, we lack cricket discipline."

"As Mohsin Naqvi mentioned about fitness, they (referring to New Zealand) saved 20 runs yesterday through improved running between the wickets. In the last two matches, they took 15 singles and also converted them into doubles, whereas we only managed 5-6. So we are working on fitness to bring our players to the level of fitness that India and Australia are at right now."

"In this series, we set them (referring to the Pakistan team) a target. Over the last two years, whenever Pakistan has won any game, our average score has been 173. In this period, Pakistan has won 6 matches and lost 5 matches too. Therefore, we set this as the minimum target for this series."

Not sure how can they bring the fitness level up to required standard in 1 month period.

And I’m saying I live abroad I don’t really care how great the people in the country think they are I only think about their achievements for Pak cricket as a whole and some chairperson zaka, sethi, butt, Naseem ashraf are all poor administrators because I can only look at how well the Indian or Uk system has advanced in the last 15 years . But this naqvi person seems good. He’s doing all the right things

Of course I can’t speak for Imran the politician but I’m…ahem…young enough to remember most of imran the cricketers career and brilliant though he was it has created this perennial issue in Pak cricket. Namely a few good match winners are more important than playing as a team. Time and again c Teams of New Zealand and Sri Lanka have shown is T20 is a game of small margins and our brand has to be upgraded. It’s still stuck in 2009 mode.

You could adapt a little more civility in your posts.

Not sure how Naqvi is doing all the right things? How he handled Babar and Shaheen issue was a disaster. Removing somebody from captaincy after 1 series is a recipe of disaster. He should have continued with Shaheen Shah Afridi. Then the army camp was another disaster. The team wasted crucial time doing nonsense training. They wasted crucial time which should have been utilized for training purposes.

 

[cricketmania22]

Coaches make a massive difference. If only you knew how bad England were before Duncan fletcher or how awful Sri Lanka were before Dav Whatmore or how Gary Kirsten transformed India you wouldn’t write this.

That’s where the issues lies. You think India got transformed because of Gary Kirsten? India was already doing well under JohnWright. Did Dav whatmore made us a World class team? Did we win a WC under him him like Sri Lanka did? If the answer is no, then that means you have failed to make your point.
And you have no idea how England Improved their cricket. Go and do some research.

 

[Rana]

Gujarat Titans today, 200-3 batting first

Didn’t maximise with the amount of wickets they had in hand. Two accumulator openers in the side…






Score chased in 16 overs

 

[Abid Z]

Not sure how can they bring the fitness level up to required standard in 1 month period.

Not sure how Naqvi is doing all the right things? How he handled Babar and Shaheen issue was a disaster. Removing somebody from captaincy after 1 series is a recipe of disaster. He should have continued with Shaheen Shah Afridi. Then the army camp was another disaster. The team wasted crucial time doing nonsense training. They wasted crucial time which should have been utilized for training purposes.

The babar-SSA issue is a needless distraction but one thing is certain. A captain needs to be a dead certain selection and I don’t know if SSA on current form is. When I look at the bellies of our cricketers if it was me I would never let them come out of an army training camp. Improving fitness is never a waste of time.

 

[Abid Z]

That’s where the issues lies. You think India got transformed because of Gary Kirsten? India was already doing well under JohnWright. Did Dav whatmore made us a World class team? Did we win a WC under him him like Sri Lanka did? If the answer is no, then that means you have failed to make your point.
And you have no idea how England Improved their cricket. Go and do some research.

First learn some manners.

Nobody will ever say just changing a coach makes all the difference. Or even instantly. Takes about 3 years. But a coach part of a good cricket structure with his own back room staff is vital.
Secondly yes I know exactly how good Gary Kirsten was because there was a lot of debate in the 90’s about Indian coaches and all the anger with Greg Chappell. Even SRT regressed as a player in that time. So steadily it took a few years to improve.

Yes I know exactly how good Duncan fletcher was for England. I’m a level2 coach with the ecb.

 

[cricketmania22]

The babar-SSA issue is a needless distraction but one thing is certain. A captain needs to be a dead certain selection and I don’t know if SSA on current form is. When I look at the bellies of our cricketers if it was me I would never let them come out of an army training camp. Improving fitness is never a waste of time.

So Australia, England, New Zealand train with their armies? What a stupid thing to say. Cricket has different set of standards and different core muscles compared to a a combat or army fitness training. Why hire world famous trainers or coaches then, hire a colonel. SSA is still a very important fixture of our team. There is no one better than him.

 

[Abid Z]

So Australia, England, New Zealand train with their armies? What a stupid thing to say. Cricket has different set of standards and different core muscles compared to a a combat or army fitness training. Why hire world famous trainers or coaches then, hire a colonel. SSA is still a very important fixture of our team. There is no one better than him.

Ok

 

[Kianig89]

So Gillespie will be mostly on joyride since Pakistan play a month of test cricket in whole year

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Getting Dizzy and Gary are fantastic appointments for the Green shirts that should elevate our style of play in all formats and create our identity.

Tactically we should be more astute and our in game awareness should improve.

Azhar Mahmood as assistant coach in all formats is an excellent appointment as well.

This can give him the tools he needs to be Pakistan coach in the future.

 

[cricketmania22]

First learn some manners.

Nobody will ever say just changing a coach makes all the difference. Or even instantly. Takes about 3 years. But a coach part of a good cricket structure with his own back room staff is vital.
Secondly yes I know exactly how good Gary Kirsten was because there was a lot of debate in the 90’s about Indian coaches and all the anger with Greg Chappell. Even SRT regressed as a player in that time. So steadily it took a few years to improve.

Yes I know exactly how good Duncan fletcher was for England. I’m a level2 coach with the ecb.

Not sure what mannerism has to do with my post? Also I haven’t called you names so not sure why are you being so sensitive?
SRT never regressed as a player. He was still performing but his working relationship deteriorated with the coach. And Greg Chappell coached them in 2000s not in 90s, so not sure what are you even trying to say over here?

 

[Mamoon]

Both Kirsten and Gillespie must be given more authority than Babar and be fully backed.

Enough of the coaches being scapegoated wheras Babar and his gang keep escaping accountability.

Coaches come and go, the players remain.

Babar will still be playing for Pakistan 5 years from now while Kirsten and JG will be long gone by then and wouldn’t even care about Pakistan cricket.

A cricket coach should never have more power and authority than the captain because he will never be there long enough.

 

[topspin]

Both Kirsten and Gillespie must be given more authority than Babar and be fully backed.

Enough of the coaches being scapegoated wheras Babar and his gang keep escaping accountability.

Best post on this thread

 

[Bewal Express]

Well that’s nonsense isn’t it? Zaka Ashraf is a highly successful businessman. Minted multi millionaire American dollars net worth

Stop sulking just because your idol Khan could only secure Saqlain Mushtaq as his top acquisition

His Business was to be AZs front man. And we all know what an amazing businessman AZ was and it wasn't only bambino Cinemas, something more profitable called Omni group.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Pakistan hardly play tests, not sure what Gillespie could do. Would he get enough time to make significant changes?

Otherwise seems like a waste of money

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Well that’s nonsense isn’t it? Zaka Ashraf is a highly successful businessman. Minted multi millionaire American dollars net worth

Stop sulking just because your idol Khan could only secure Saqlain Mushtaq as his top acquisition

Money is no Barometer to determine success.

Zaka ashraf is the same crony who spent hundreds of millions of rupees during his 22 month tenure.

It seems you idolise looters of our Great country.

 

[Rana]

Imran Khan fans sulking because the greatest coaching acquisition in his reign as PM was Saqlain Mushtaq

No foreign coach will work for this regime

Naqvi and Co are busy signing paycheques for Kirsten and Gillespie!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I hope player and lobby power gets nixed under the current regime. Gillespie and Kirsten are professionals and may not tolerate it. Kirsten might be soft in his approach but expecting gillespie to be more ruthless.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Riswan got his topi on already, they will be invited to the next Jummah where he will be delivering the Kutbah

Tweener shaz hinting a slow burn heel turn.

 

[Bewal Express]

Money is no Barometer to determine success.

Zaka ashraf is the same crony who spent hundreds of millions of rupees during his 22 month tenure.

It seems you idolise looters of our Great country.

He supports criminals so this sort of report will him getting salvating.

 

[AMSS]

Gillespie turned Ishant Sharma's career after his County stint. Check Sharma's record from 2014 onward, as good as any.

Pak fans should be excited for Shaheen who's been regressing alarmingly. Jason could arrest that slide.

 

[Abid Z]

Not sure what mannerism has to do with my post? Also I haven’t called you names so not sure why are you being so sensitive?
SRT never regressed as a player. He was still performing but his working relationship deteriorated with the coach. And Greg Chappell coached them in 2000s not in 90s, so not sure what are you even trying to say over here?

Oh lord. You dont understand what I’m saying? I’m only responding to your superficial comments.

You said coaches don’t make a difference. I said they do in the RIGHT STRUCTURE AT THE RIGHT TIME. Let me spell this out to you.

Firstly ENGLAND in the 1990’s (not India) were rubbish then improved under DUNCAN FLETCHER AND HIS STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

INDIA IN 2000’s had the best players but still were not the best despite a good coach but better more adept coaches came later and by 2011 they were on top.

Sri Lanka were rubbish in the early 1990’s but DAV transformed them but not the structure so they went back to being average.

Duncan fletcher never made the impact with India, but Gary Kirsten did.(elaborate later(

Dave whatmore made improvements with SL BUT NOT PAK.

Bob Woolmer made massive difference to SA but not PAK.

Pak is the outlier because we get coaches but keep their hands tied. We can’t get the best out of them. All the coaches that have had lasting success ALSO MADE STRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE COUNTRIES they operated in.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Gillespie turned Ishant Sharma's career after his County stint. Check Sharma's record from 2014 onward, as good as any.

Pak fans should be excited for Shaheen who's been regressing alarmingly. Jason could arrest that slide.

Shaheen is streets ahead of sharma as a bowler.

Shaheen is a 3 format player whose workload needs to be better managed to avoid burnout.

He needs to be played in the most important series and tournaments to keep his levels at an optimum.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Oh lord. You dont understand what I’m saying? I’m only responding to your superficial comments.

You said coaches don’t make a difference. I said they do in the RIGHT STRUCTURE AT THE RIGHT TIME. Let me spell this out to you.

Firstly ENGLAND in the 1990’s (not India) were rubbish then improved under DUNCAN FLETCHER AND HIS STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

INDIA IN 2000’s had the best players but still were not the best despite a good coach but better more adept coaches came later and by 2011 they were on top.

Sri Lanka were rubbish in the early 1990’s but DAV transformed them but not the structure so they went back to being average.

Duncan fletcher never made the impact with India, but Gary Kirsten did.(elaborate later(

Dave whatmore made improvements with SL BUT NOT PAK.

Bob Woolmer made massive difference to SA but not PAK.

Pak is the outlier because we get coaches but keep their hands tied. We can’t get the best out of them. All the coaches that have had lasting success ALSO MADE STRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE COUNTRIES they operated in.

Mickey was given more leeway and he did improve things during his tenure and was successful.

 

[Rana]

He supports criminals so this sort of report will him getting salvating.

The only one in Jail is the one you support

 

[PakHammer]

Getting Dizzy and Gary are fantastic appointments for the Green shirts that should elevate our style of play in all formats and create our identity.

Tactically we should be more astute and our in game awareness should improve.

Azhar Mahmood as assistant coach in all formats is an excellent appointment as well.

This can give him the tools he needs to be Pakistan coach in the future.

I think that's the plan with Azhar to be a all format Pakistan head coach in the future. Make sense to have succession planning.

 

[cricketmania22]

Oh lord. You dont understand what I’m saying? I’m only responding to your superficial comments.

You said coaches don’t make a difference. I said they do in the RIGHT STRUCTURE AT THE RIGHT TIME. Let me spell this out to you.

Firstly ENGLAND in the 1990’s (not India) were rubbish then improved under DUNCAN FLETCHER AND HIS STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

INDIA IN 2000’s had the best players but still were not the best despite a good coach but better more adept coaches came later and by 2011 they were on top.

Sri Lanka were rubbish in the early 1990’s but DAV transformed them but not the structure so they went back to being average.

Duncan fletcher never made the impact with India, but Gary Kirsten did.(elaborate later(

Dave whatmore made improvements with SL BUT NOT PAK.

Bob Woolmer made massive difference to SA but not PAK.

Pak is the outlier because we get coaches but keep their hands tied. We can’t get the best out of them. All the coaches that have had lasting success ALSO MADE STRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE COUNTRIES they operated in.

You changed your whole approach. Initially you never mentioned that coaches along WITH STRUCTURAL CHANGES make a big difference.

But I think you’re still wrong. Coaches at junior level and domestic level make the real difference. That’s where the game is developed. International coaches are there to coach the players, make strategies and game planning. I have never seen an International cricket coach talking about grassroots structural changes in their job proposal. They can fine tune some of the things but they can’t overhaul a system. International coaches are there for 2-3 years, they don’t have time to wait for grassroots changes to see the results. This is a cricket boards job.

What you see after 2011 was all the structural changes India did from 2000 to 2011.

SA was very strong team since their comeback in 1992. They had a very strong domestic system. Not sure why would someone praise a coach for that success.

 

[cricketmania22]

He supports criminals so this sort of report will him getting salvating.

Anyone who supports Naqvi would be despicable like him.

 

[Slim]

Absolutely alpha chad move by PCB. Getting the best in the business. Its insane what having the right person at the helm can yield. We had Najam kneeling before Mickey’s online coaching drama to Mohsin getting top ranked coaches for Pakistan. Love to see this!

I only wish they had not fumbled the captaincy decision which leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. The only way to rectify is by giving Kristen full authority over team selection, and tactics. Babar can be a puppet captain / the mascot PCB wants.

 

[Slim]

Upon being asked about Gray Kirsten's role in the appointment of Babar Azam as the white ball captain, Mohsin Naqvi replied:

"The appointment of Babar Azam as captain was a decision of the selection committee; Gray Kirsten had no role in it."

@Rana stop the cap bro.

 

[cricketmania22]

I'm puzzled by the suggestion that Babar should become a dummy captain in favor of a foreign coach. To me, this not only undermines our superstar but also reflects an inferiority complex. How could we entertain the idea of entrusting someone unfamiliar with our domestic scene, players, and team culture with such a crucial role? Western countries rarely appoint foreign coaches, let alone grant them full control. Would they permit someone like Wasim Akram to dictate their captain's decisions?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I'm puzzled by the suggestion that Babar should become a dummy captain in favor of a foreign coach. To me, this not only undermines our superstar but also reflects an inferiority complex. How could we entertain the idea of entrusting someone unfamiliar with our domestic scene, players, and team culture with such a crucial role? Western countries rarely appoint foreign coaches, let alone grant them full control. Would they permit someone like Wasim Akram to dictate their captain's decisions?

He already is a 'dummy' captain pardon the pun.

 

[Rana]

@Rana stop the cap bro.

I wouldn’t take his word for it.

 

[Slim]

I'm puzzled by the suggestion that Babar should become a dummy captain in favor of a foreign coach. To me, this not only undermines our superstar but also reflects an inferiority complex. How could we entertain the idea of entrusting someone unfamiliar with our domestic scene, players, and team culture with such a crucial role? Western countries rarely appoint foreign coaches, let alone grant them full control. Would they permit someone like Wasim Akram to dictate their captain's decisions?

Babar is not a superstar, but a PR inflated cricketer.

Babar is a terrible captain with a proven failure track record of 4 years. Lacks any imagination, technical nous and comes with an extremely stubborn stinking attitude.

Babar has clearly shown evidence of bias and favoritism over the greater good of Pakistan in his team’s selections.

Under him team’s fitness went to the dogs and he told Mickey to not bother him or his friends i mean other team mates with fitness. Babar was spotted with a sizable belly in WC2023.

Babar refuses to change his batting approach, is a limited player.

Simply put, Babar is cancerous for Pakistan cricket esp as a captain. Since PCB has made him captain, he can be their mascot while Kristen takes over the strategic and execution aspects.

Because Kristen is a proven winner while Babar is a proven failure!

 

[Abid Z]

You changed your whole approach. Initially you never mentioned that coaches along WITH STRUCTURAL CHANGES make a big difference.

But I think you’re still wrong. Coaches at junior level and domestic level make the real difference. That’s where the game is developed. International coaches are there to coach the players, make strategies and game planning. I have never seen an International cricket coach talking about grassroots structural changes in their job proposal. They can fine tune some of the things but they can’t overhaul a system. International coaches are there for 2-3 years, they don’t have time to wait for grassroots changes to see the results. This is a cricket boards job.

What you see after 2011 was all the structural changes India did from 2000 to 2011.

SA was very strong team since their comeback in 1992. They had a very strong domestic system. Not sure why would someone praise a coach for that success.

Who said anything about junior level structural changes?

You said coaches don’t make a difference I just gave you countless examples of where coaches did make a difference but they were allowed to make structural in those other countries. I then gave you the example of DF in ECB but because you are a bit dense you took that to mean junior level. I didn’t tell you what changes DF made. I DIDNT tell you what structural changes INDIAN coaches made.

I would agree not many coaches have made a difference at team level in Pak though they did improve certain individuals. I can explain that but I won’t because you are obviously not able to grasp simple concepts.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Warning:

Guys, please avoid political debates. Let's stick to the title of the thread

 

[cricketmania22]

Who said anything about junior level structural changes?

You said coaches don’t make a difference I just gave you countless examples of where coaches did make a difference but they were allowed to make structural in those other countries. I then gave you the example of DF in ECB but because you are a bit dense you took that to mean junior level. I didn’t tell you what changes DF made. I DIDNT tell you what structural changes INDIAN coaches made.

I would agree not many coaches have made a difference at team level in Pak though they did improve certain individuals. I can explain that but I won’t because you are obviously not able to grasp simple concepts.

I think you have comprehension issues. This thread is about hiring coaches for national team and that’s what the initial discussion was about. Since you were losing the argument you brought in structural changes point. This thread or my initial post, or even your initial posts were never about the structural changes.

You keep making ridiculous points. How can a coach who’s there for two-three years make structural changes and then stay there long enough to see the fruits of those changes. This is not a job requirement of national team coaches. Please go and educate yourself on job description of foreign coaches at international level.

 

[Savak]

Coaches come and go, the players remain.

Babar will still be playing for Pakistan 5 years from now while Kirsten and JG will be long gone by then and wouldn’t even care about Pakistan cricket.

A cricket coach should never have more power and authority than the captain because he will never be there long enough.

High profile coaches come with big reputations. They are not going to come here only to be dummy to Babar. Babar has remained Pakistan's captain for the last 5 years with nothing to show for it whereas so many coaches have faced the axe which is unfair. Babar can play for Pakistan if his performances warrant but no one has eternal right to the captaincy without results.

 

[pakistani pride]

During a press conference, Pakistan's assistant coach, Azhar Mahmood, said:

"By now, the average score we are scoring is 157 while batting first, and in the second innings, it's 155. The top teams in the world, India and Australia, have averages of 189 and 186, respectively. If we see this series, although we should have won by a very good margin, we can't disrespect anyone; they are upcoming stars of New Zealand. They have displayed talent and played disciplined cricket. In our case, we lack cricket discipline."

"As Mohsin Naqvi mentioned about fitness, they (referring to New Zealand) saved 20 runs yesterday through improved running between the wickets. In the last two matches, they took 15 singles and also converted them into doubles, whereas we only managed 5-6. So we are working on fitness to bring our players to the level of fitness that India and Australia are at right now."

"In this series, we set them (referring to the Pakistan team) a target. Over the last two years, whenever Pakistan has won any game, our average score has been 173. In this period, Pakistan has won 6 matches and lost 5 matches too. Therefore, we set this as the minimum target for this series."

Talks about Fitness and running between the wickets, but Captain fantastic says we are missing Azam Khan.

They are so hopeless.

 

[Savak]

Anyone who has knowledge and has observed Kirsten's and Gillespie's coaching history. What are they going to bring to the table?

- Can they successfully convince Babar and the Pakistani players to get out of their comfort zones and play the modern brand of cricket?

- Will they maintain a zero compromise policy on fitness?

- What kind of players have these coaches advocated for?

It takes a long for Tendulkar to state that Kirsten was the best coach he played under and for Dhoni to be the best captain he played under.

 

[Abid Z]

I think you have comprehension issues. This thread is about hiring coaches for national team and that’s what the initial discussion was about. Since you were losing the argument you brought in structural changes point. This thread or my initial post, or even your initial posts were never about the structural changes.
You keep making ridiculous points. How can a coach who’s there for two-three years make structural changes and then stay there long enough to see the fruits of those changes. This is not a job requirement of national team coaches. Please go and educate yourself on job description of foreign coaches at international level. I don’t have high hopes that you would still understand the issue at hand seeing how obtuse you are and lack comprehension skills.

Duncan fletcher in England made structural changes. Altered contracts with counties. Brought players to play for ECB instead of the counties. And compensated the counties so they would release players when he wanted. Brought in fitness culture. Had fantastic scouts to identify a particular type of cricketer. Brought in a whole behind the scenes set up of dieticians and psychologists. With the ecb then introduced coaching from 11-17 year olds. Obviously it took 5 years and was developed by moores and later Andy flower so it’s been a transition 10-20 years in the making. Along the way the team has lost in world cups notably 2011 and 2015 odi but they continued with an approach. So they made the lions team that toured subcontinent regularly to make players better at spin. Bairstow butler stokes root are products of that.

So DF. Didn’t just bring in players like Vaughn, Strauss or trescothick. He had an eye on the future with Pieterson, flintoff, Ashley Giles and they continued his philosophy then made a director of cricket role. Previously it was all lord Mclaurin and DF with NASSER HUSSAIN.

THIS IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

By comparison a singular coach Dav whatmore in Srilanka made massive changes at an individual level and we saw this in the SL-aus series in 1995-96 then the World Cup. But there were no deep rooted changes. Just a few brilliant players that came and went.

Moral of the story for the pea-brained.

A coach does make a difference but he needs to be allowed to make any changes he sees fit otherwise he’s just a glorified tea sipper like Mohsin Khan. Ie I’m a Pakistani set up a coach ought to carry out reforms with freedom. It’s hard to do as an individual but better as a team of coaches.

The next chapter would be on India but I’m tired now and it’s probably past your bed time.

 

[cricketmania22]

Anyone who has knowledge and has observed Kirsten's and Gillespie's coaching history. What are they going to bring to the table?

- Can they successfully convince Babar and the Pakistani players to get out of their comfort zones and play the modern brand of cricket?

- Will they maintain a zero compromise policy on fitness?

- What kind of players have these coaches advocated for?

It takes a long for Tendulkar to state that Kirsten was the best coach he played under and for Dhoni to be the best captain he played under.

How do you play modern brand of cricket if don’t have players and capabilities? If Babar plays more “unselfish” brand of cricket and in process gets out on Lower scores more often, who would take the responsibility to score the runs? Where are you going to find the players from to play this fearless brand of cricket? Except for Babar no one put up his hand even against this NZ C team.

 

[JattMaula]

.

Anyone who has knowledge and has observed Kirsten's and Gillespie's coaching history. What are they going to bring to the table?

- Can they successfully convince Babar and the Pakistani players to get out of their comfort zones and play the modern brand of cricket?

- Will they maintain a zero compromise policy on fitness?

- What kind of players have these coaches advocated for?

It takes a long for Tendulkar to state that Kirsten was the best coach he played under and for Dhoni to be the best captain he played under.

I don't know about Gillespie but Kirsten is a more of scalpel than sledgehammer. Don't expect dramatic changes right away.

He worked in India without a peep so don't expect him to rock the boat about selection either. He will make do with the squad he is given. He will not fight for a player or against a player.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Unless they are bringing in magic wands then I'm a afraid, nothing will change.

PCB needs a cleanse from top to bottom.

Long term vision, qualified personal, openness to modernization, determination towards professional, education & NO CAKE CELEBRATION

 

[cricketmania22]

Duncan fletcher in England made structural changes. Altered contracts with counties. Brought players to play for ECB instead of the counties. And compensated the counties so they would release players when he wanted. Brought in fitness culture. Had fantastic scouts to identify a particular type of cricketer. Brought in a whole behind the scenes set up of dieticians and psychologists. With the ecb then introduced coaching from 11-17 year olds. Obviously it took 5 years and was developed by moores and later Andy flower so it’s been a transition 10-20 years in the making. Along the way the team has lost in world cups notably 2011 and 2015 odi but they continued with an approach. So they made the lions team that toured subcontinent regularly to make players better at spin. Bairstow butler stokes root are products of that.

So DF. Didn’t just bring in players like Vaughn, Strauss or trescothick. He had an eye on the future with Pieterson, flintoff, Ashley Giles and they continued his philosophy then made a director of cricket role. Previously it was all lord Mclaurin and DF with NASSER HUSSAIN.

THIS IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT STRUCTURAL CHANGES.

By comparison a singular coach Dav whatmore in Srilanka made massive changes at an individual level and we saw this in the SL-aus series in 1995-96 then the World Cup. But there were no deep rooted changes. Just a few brilliant players that came and went.

Moral of the story for the pea-brained.

A coach does make a difference but he needs to be allowed to make any changes he sees fit otherwise he’s just a glorified tea sipper like Mohsin Khan. Ie I’m a Pakistani set up a coach ought to carry out reforms with freedom. It’s hard to do as an individual but better as a team of coaches.

The next chapter would be on India but I’m tired now and it’s probably past your bed time.

First go educate yourself on what structural changes is. Many of things you’re saying are not even attributed to Fletcher, you’re just making up stuff from the thin air. Kevin Pietesen? So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in? Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product! when you talk about structural changes, you talk about revamping your club cricket, you school cricket, your first class cricket. Building more academies, hiring more coaches at junior level, getting coaches for specific skills.

 

[mominsaigol]

Coaches come and go, the players remain.

Babar will still be playing for Pakistan 5 years from now while Kirsten and JG will be long gone by then and wouldn’t even care about Pakistan cricket.

A cricket coach should never have more power and authority than the captain because he will never be there long enough.

Yes, because Babar with all his power has shown why he's a goat captain. Next he'll be front runner for being the best captain since Imran Khan

 

[Abid Z]

First go educate yourself on what structural changes is. Many of things you’re saying are not even attributed to Fletcher, you’re just making up stuff from the thin air. Kevin Pietesen? So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in? Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product! when you talk about structural changes, you talk about revamping your club cricket, you school cricket, your first class cricket. Building more academies, hiring more coaches at junior level, getting coaches for specific skills.

Where did pieterson play cricket before 2005 ashes?

 

[Bewal Express]

High profile coaches come with big reputations. They are not going to come here only to be dummy to Babar. Babar has remained Pakistan's captain for the last 5 years with nothing to show for it whereas so many coaches have faced the axe which is unfair. Babar can play for Pakistan if his performances warrant but no one has eternal right to the captaincy without results.

They are here because their careers have tanked and this is easy money. If they fail, which in their mind they believe they will, their careers wont be harmed because no one expects to do much. They will still get the easy franchise gigs available and if they succeed, their stock will rise and for the likes of Gillespie, he may got a shot at the Australian job. For these guys its a busman's holiday.

 

[Abid Z]

First go educate yourself on what structural changes is. Many of things you’re saying are not even attributed to Fletcher, you’re just making up stuff from the thin air. Kevin Pietesen? So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in? Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product! when you talk about structural changes, you talk about revamping your club cricket, you school cricket, your first class cricket. Building more academies, hiring more coaches at junior level, getting coaches for specific skills.

English lions is an academy
I just told you all about ecb training from 11-17.

Do you know what kolpak is?

Of course he’s not uk born. Do you think Andy flower, Johnathan trott, Duncan fletcher are uk born?

Tell me what is not attributed to duncan fletcher the coach

 

[Slim]

They are here because their careers have tanked and this is easy money. If they fail, which in their mind they believe they will, their careers wont be harmed because no one expects to do much. They will still get the easy franchise gigs available and if they succeed, their stock will rise and for the likes of Gillespie, he may got a shot at the Australian job. For these guys its a busman's holiday.

Oh right, lets make Babar coach captain and team manager of Pakistan team?

 

[Bewal Express]

Oh right, lets make Babar coach captain and team manager of Pakistan team?

It makes no difference who the coach or captain is. We dont have the players or the institutions to develop a World class team. There are only 7 teams in the World, Ind, Australia and Eng take up the top 3, this leaves SL, SA NZ and PK to fight for the crumbs. History shows NZ punch above their weight, SA dont care anymore and SL are in the same mess we are in.

 

[cricketmania22]

Where did pieterson play cricket before 2005 ashes?

He played South African domestic cricket from 1997-2000. He was already earmarked as someone with great potential. His domestic team coach was very disappointed when they lost him in 2000. Director of Nottingham cricket Clive Rice was so happy when he recruited him. He said he hope Petersen would play for England once his four years criteria is met.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah, that's a shame. He is a coach who we KNOW can make a massive difference.

Yup. And he did make a huge difference too. Pakistan's fielding prior to the 2017 CT and even during the CT was godawful. And then there was a period of one year or so when it got really good. But ofcourse PCB being PCB didn't pay him on time and ran him off.

 

[Abid Z]

First go educate yourself on what structural changes is. Many of things you’re saying are not even attributed to Fletcher, you’re just making up stuff from the thin air. Kevin Pietesen? So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in? Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product! when you talk about structural changes, you talk about revamping your club cricket, you school cricket, your first class cricket. Building more academies, hiring more coaches at junior level, getting coaches for specific skills.

He played South African domestic cricket from 1997-2000. He was already earmarked as someone with great potential. His domestic team coach was very disappointed when they lost him in 2000. Director of Nottingham cricket Clive Rice was so happy when he recruited him. He said he hope Petersen would play for England once his four years criteria is met.

so you know he’s a kolpak player who came to Nottingham?

 

[Mamoon]

High profile coaches come with big reputations. They are not going to come here only to be dummy to Babar. Babar has remained Pakistan's captain for the last 5 years with nothing to show for it whereas so many coaches have faced the axe which is unfair. Babar can play for Pakistan if his performances warrant but no one has eternal right to the captaincy without results.

Big reputation or not, you cannot have the coach call all the shots when he will be gone in 2 years.

Not these these high profile coaches care that much. Kirsten and Gillespie can fail badly and they will be back in IPL and County in no time.

 

[Slim]

Big reputation or not, you cannot have the coach call all the shots when he will be gone in 2 years.

Not these these high profile coaches care that much. Kirsten and Gillespie can fail badly and they will be back in IPL and County in no time.

Please tell us Mamoon what fruits has Pakistan cricket reaped after letting Babar azam call the shots for 4 years that you want him to continue to call the shots for 2 more years as well?

 

[Abid Z]

He played South African domestic cricket from 1997-2000. He was already earmarked as someone with great potential. His domestic team coach was very disappointed when they lost him in 2000. Director of Nottingham cricket Clive Rice was so happy when he recruited him. He said he hope Petersen would play for England once his four years criteria is met.

So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in?

Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product!

You see how confusing your superficial comments are. I know you’re loving the attention so I’ll just go step by step.

Read your two paras and try to pick up the contradictions. I’m just using KP as an example of what we can agree a coach should do. Identify and develop a player/team

From 2000-2005 KP WAS IN ENGLAND!! You even wrote this. So of course he was on DF radar. He had scouts all over the country ready to pluck them away from county. And he dropped GRAEME THORPE to do so.

Who said anything about “county revamp “ are you dense?? I said he reformulated contracts. Do you think I’m suggesting he’s a lawyer? He obviously wanted this as a change and pushed for it.

ECB SET UP performance centre in Loughborough. ARE YOU TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT IM SAYING HE RUNS A UNIVERSITY? He obviously was instrumental in working on team biomechanics and fitness.

Do you not think this is way beyond what MOHSIN KHAN did in 2012? Two very contrasting approaches in coaching. One has had lasting affect one only helped a series win. But ironically PAK had all the equipment to know the disasters that were coming but it was easy for MOHSIN to not take those “structural changes” radical changes whatever you want to say. IF AJMAL had been picked up early as a cheat by using the equipment that was gathering dust then we could have had a biomechanics lab sooner and not lost so many players to bad actions.

So for the juveniles it’s important to state that coaches need to operate in the whole environment in which their cricket takes place and not only concern themselves with drills that take place on the field

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Hopefully Gary Kirsten won't be abused by some fans for accepting this coaching role.

 

[gazza619]

Hopefully Gary Kirsten won't be abused by some fans for accepting this coaching role.

Why are we so obsessed with foreign coaches.

Kirsten is here to make a quick buck so he better make an impact or be ready for abuse.

 

[Mamoon]

Please tell us Mamoon what fruits has Pakistan cricket reaped after letting Babar azam call the shots for 4 years that you want him to continue to call the shots for 2 more years as well?

Babar has done a good job as captain. Pakistan is a rubbish team and it will remain a rubbish team no matter who the captain is.

It is rubbish not because of Babar’s captaincy but because the vast majority of the players are rubbish. It is very simple.

Babar has led Pakistan in 3 tournaments and he finished runners up and semifinalists in 2 out of the 3 tournaments which is a very admirable result for a team of Pakistan’s level.

In addition, he holds the distinction of being the only Pakistani captain to beat India in a World Cup.

Babar was replaced by Shaheen who got trounced 4-1 in New Zealand and by Masood who continued Pakistan’s proud tradition of getting whitewashed in Australia in Test cricket and let them off the hook when they were 16/4.

What did Pakistan achieve during the period where Babar was not captain?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Hopefully Gary Kirsten won't be abused by some fans for accepting this coaching role.

I don't think he would, every indian fan should be grateful to him for 2011,he couldn't have done more

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I don't think he would, every indian fan should be grateful to him for 2011,he couldn't have done more

He is the coach of 'dushman mulk' now. How dare he accept the role of Pakistan's coach?

 

[shaz619]

This type of statement is a step in the right direction and something more than tangible than having no plans.

But even setting targets of 170 against the kiwi c squad is being conservative.

Graeme Swann use to say that’s how the England ODI team of old played, before matches there’d be a white board which would have specific targets; ‘Alright lads, we want to be around 220 by the 50th over’ then it’s time to push on.

Pakistan team mindset is dated in their approach, Azar should know better. I hope the 170 is more of a target for the media, but even then that brings unwanted attention and criticism.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

If they can curb the influence Babar has on the team, I would consider that as a win.

I know we are not winning the World Cup.

But Babar being shown his true "aukaat" would do wonders for the tag team of Babar and Rizwan.

 

[cricketmania22]

So he kept an eye on South Africans and waited for them to migrate so they can rope them in?

Kevin Pietertsen was already famous before he moved to England. He was not even an English product!

You see how confusing your superficial comments are. I know you’re loving the attention so I’ll just go step by step.

Read your two paras and try to pick up the contradictions. I’m just using KP as an example of what we can agree a coach should do. Identify and develop a player/team

From 2000-2005 KP WAS IN ENGLAND!! You even wrote this. So of course he was on DF radar. He had scouts all over the country ready to pluck them away from county. And he dropped GRAEME THORPE to do so.

Who said anything about “county revamp “ are you dense?? I said he reformulated contracts. Do you think I’m suggesting he’s a lawyer? He obviously wanted this as a change and pushed for it.

ECB SET UP performance centre in Loughborough. ARE YOU TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT IM SAYING HE RUNS A UNIVERSITY? He obviously was instrumental in working on team biomechanics and fitness.

Do you not think this is way beyond what MOHSIN KHAN did in 2012? Two very contrasting approaches in coaching. One has had lasting affect one only helped a series win. But ironically PAK had all the equipment to know the disasters that were coming but it was easy for MOHSIN to not take those “structural changes” radical changes whatever you want to say. IF AJMAL had been picked up early as a cheat by using the equipment that was gathering dust then we could have had a biomechanics lab sooner and not lost so many players to bad actions.

So for the juveniles it’s important to state that coaches need to operate in the whole environment in which their cricket takes place and not only concern themselves with drills that take place on the field

I’m confused to what to hee trying to say? How’s that a structural change? You make no sense whatsoever.

Oh so by replying to you I’m seeking attention?

You’re saying by keeping an eye on somebody who was already earmarked to be a great potential is a structural change? Again go read what does structure change mean. Use dictionary if needed. Also, please cite me sources where and how he made changes to the central contracts? Was it done across the board? Did more people start playing first class cricket because of it? Just because someone made changes to central contract doesn’t mean it’s a structural change. Again, please enlighten yourself with the terminology.

Mohsin Khan? LMAO that’s the benchmark you used?

 

[cricketmania22]

English lions is an academy
I just told you all about ecb training from 11-17.

Do you know what kolpak is?

Of course he’s not uk born. Do you think Andy flower, Johnathan trott, Duncan fletcher are uk born?

Tell me what is not attributed to duncan fletcher the coach

How is Kolpak relevant to this topic? Please give up now.. stop embarrassing yourself any further..

So far, you haven't provided a single example with proper citation demonstrating how a national team coach improved a team through fundamental structural changes. Your points seem more like gibberish than anything substantial. Waqar Younis enforced strict fitness standards and Misbah implemented the yoyo test, attributing Pakistan's future success solely to them would be rather ridiculous.

While Fletcher was a very good coach and tactician during his tenure with England, there's no concrete evidence of him implementing structural changes that significantly impacted player development. Recruiting good players is one thing, but creating a system that consistently produces quality players is another. Look at England's white-ball system or India's depth in talent as examples. They can Bennch half of their players and still field a very competitive team.

While Fletcher's 2005 Ashes win was notable, subsequent losses and inconsistent performances paint a less favorable picture of his “structural changes” legacy..

 

[Savak]

Tez khel, Chauke, Chakkay Maar, Delleree se Khel, Magar out khabar daar mat hona.

This is how our local coaches, captains and selectors have destroyed all our young upcoming batsmen.

 

[James]

Potentially some very good appointments by Pakistan cricket. Promising stuff.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Good appointments. But coaches can only bring out the best of the existing level of talent.

Also, not sure why PAK need 2 coaches. England split the coaching because players , fans and the ECB all have an interest in Test cricket.

PCB, PAK fans and players could not care less. They neither have the skill nor the will for the longest format .Kirsten was enough for all formats.

I see these as a part time appointments,

 

[The Bald Eagle]

“I love Test cricket. It tests every part of your game, physically and mentally. It tests techniques, and that’s the true test, which is very relevant. You only have to speak to players around the world, and they all love playing Test cricket. Players want to wear the country’s cap on their head and want to represent their country in Test match cricket."

Gillespie and Kirsten featured in 48th edition of PCB Podcast where they shared following thoughts​

Jason Gillespie:
“I simply want the Pakistan cricket team to play the style of cricket that’s going to suit them; for me, that’s important. My philosophy is - don’t try to be something that you’re not! There are going to be times when you have to grind it out, and that’s what Test cricket is. It’s a test of your skills, mental capacity and patience. There are times to attack and times to soak up some periods of cricket from the opposition."

“I like hardworking players and believe in discipline. We are in an entertainment business and I want to showcase our skills to the crowds and to our supporters. I want to play games, produce performances that mean something, and, more importantly, I want to win."

“The role of the fans in cricket is vitally important; without the fans, we don’t have a game. I’m very conscious that Pakistan cricket supporters are incredibly passionate. They want to see success, and they want the team to do well. I want the fans to be rest assured that the bad days are not going to be through a lack of effort or lack of preparation. We will be working hard and preparing very well.""

“I completely understand and appreciate that. We’re going to have some great days in Test cricket for Pakistan, and there’s a chance we’ll have some not-so-good days. But if we can bridge that gap and minimise those bad days and keep striving to have more good days, more good hours, more sessions, we can have some success.”

Gary Kirsten:

“I think Pakistan sits as one of the top four to five coaching jobs in the world internationally. The proposition to work with some of the best cricketers in the world was appealing to me. What is important is that I have the opportunity to work with some of the best cricketers in the world, and that excites me."

“My view on Pakistan cricket hasn’t shifted for a long time. There is always an expectation that it should be a high-performing team all the time. We know in team sports, that’s not always the case. It’s always wonderful from a coaching perspective when you can help them (players) unlock the real potential. That’s what I’m looking forward to. I’m really looking forward to working with those individual players and the team and assisting them that way."

“For me, the most important thing is establishing a really good environment for people to operate at their best, to understand where the players need to be challenged, but also at the same time where they need to be thoroughly enjoying what they do. I don't have the silver bullet to success, my role is to try and enable the players to play at the absolute maximum of their talents."

“That’s not an easy thing to do in any environment because there’s always a lot of noise. A team loses a game of cricket and then, you know, the noise pops up. What will be incredibly important will be our ability to stay on the course and hold our line in terms of what we believe is the right way to play the game."

“I am certainly a big fan of continuity and consistency. Those are two words that are really important to me. So, there might be some frustrations around players in and out of form, and that happens in the game. I would certainly push hard to make sure that the environment remains consistent. If I’m going to pick a player because I backed him, that player is staying and not going anywhere until and unless it gets to a point where we would have to make a shift. As a coach, I’m a big believer in continuity and consistency."

“My recipe is to stay under the radar in many ways and allow the players to enjoy the success and, when things aren’t going well, it’s to let know that we are all together in this to go where we want to go.”

 

[Ali T]

While I'm glad with the outcome, I'm not too keen of multiple coaches for multiple formats. Different ideas thrown around will lead to a lot of confusion and different styles of play.
Does that mean that half the year both coaches will be back home or are they full time in Pakistan?

 

[Mamoon]

Tez khel, Chauke, Chakkay Maar, Delleree se Khel, Magar out khabar daar mat hona.

This is how our local coaches, captains and selectors have destroyed all our young upcoming batsmen.

List the great batsmen in history who didn’t put a price on their wicket.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Good appointments. But coaches can only bring out the best of the existing level of talent.

Also, not sure why PAK need 2 coaches. England split the coaching because players , fans and the ECB all have an interest in Test cricket.

PCB, PAK fans and players could not care less. They neither have the skill nor the will for the longest format .Kirsten was enough for all formats.

How are you writing on behalf of all Pakistani supporters and players regarding how we feel about Test cricket?

The number of tests played outside the monopoly 3 is the ultimate key factor.

We have always had skill at test cricket.

Don't get it twisted.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

While I'm glad with the outcome, I'm not too keen of multiple coaches for multiple formats. Different ideas thrown around will lead to a lot of confusion and different styles of play.
Does that mean that half the year both coaches will be back home or are they full time in Pakistan?

Not necessarily.

The test squad has some different players like Shan, Imam, Abdullah and Saud and possibly Muhammad Ali and Sarfraz.

 

[Shafi]

Tez khel, Chauke, Chakkay Maar, Delleree se Khel, Magar out khabar daar mat hona.

This is how our local coaches, captains and selectors have destroyed all our young upcoming batsmen.

Any idea who will be our batting/bowling and fielding coach?

 

[Rana]

Welcome Kirsten, we have the brains to match your coaching excellence

 

[JattMaula]

Welcome Kirsten, we have the brains to match your coaching excellence

Cant believe Bobby B and Rizzler got tenured at Harvard business! Massive achievement.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

How are you writing on behalf of all Pakistani supporters and players regarding how we feel about Test cricket?

The number of tests played outside the monopoly 3 is the ultimate key factor.

We have always had skill at test cricket.

Don't get it twisted.

You do realise that number of Tests played at home is solely up to the PCB right ?

 

[shehz]

I don't understand all this negativity. We've acquired two highly skilled, professional coaches to collaborate with the team.

Personally, I'm particularly excited about the potential of Azhar Mahmood as an assistant coach. With his blend of foreign and local experience, coupled with the opportunity to learn from these two coaches, he could become a valuable asset for Pakistan in the long term, especially if either of the current coaches were to depart. I see Azhar's hiring as a strategic move, and one that could benefit the team in the long run.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

You do realise that number of Tests played at home is solely up to the PCB right ?

Yes.

You do know that the icc play a significant role in coordinating the schedules of international cricket matches and tournaments.