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Hanuman was the first space traveller – BJP

Yes, and now he has diverted to whataboutism about flying donkeys in Islam, and this is someone who's identity on PP is as an atheist critic of Islam. If you are an atheist then you don't need to get defensive over silly hindutva beliefs, if anything they should be your prime concern. It has always been something of a contradiction in his stance. You might claim to be an atheist, but devout Hindus believe quite understandably in the Godly attributes of Hanuman. Must be some mental gymnastics going on to be an atheist and a hindutva.
Yup, diversion is their best tactic. These cult members do not believe in this stuff themselves - they soon realise just how embarrassing it is for their right-wing nationalist terrorist government to be making such claims.

The cult being mouth pieces of RSS/SHIV SENA, have zero critical thinking skills, and are the true slaves of the 21st century, hence the world has rejected their nonsense for 5000 years - COLD HARD FACT.
 
I see how a person’s faith can get people offended, I personally feel very offended at some of the posts here.(need to grow out of it , yes)
@big_gamer007
I do blame BJP here but hard not to notice the people who are religious taking a go at Dharmic faith.
 
Yup, diversion is their best tactic. These cult members do not believe in this stuff themselves - they soon realise just how embarrassing it is for their right-wing nationalist terrorist government to be making such claims.

The cult being mouth pieces of RSS/SHIV SENA, have zero critical thinking skills, and are the true slaves of the 21st century, hence the world has rejected their nonsense for 5000 years - COLD HARD FACT.
What has the world rejected? RSS Shiva Sena are not even a century old, so you do mean to say something, just say it.
 
Help me out bruv. The claim is Hanuman was the first to space traveller?

From Wiki :



Given the above, I put to you, how can we discuss the claim in the OP without referencing Brahmanism, Hinduism, and Hindutva?

The problem is that Hinduism has no cornerstone - so tell me what exactly are we meant to do with the OP other than to falsify it, or accept it?
Of course you are welcome to discuss the OP however you wish.

I guess my point was that most Muslims by default would disagree with the BJP MPs statement otherwise our names would be Ramkumar, so it goes without saying.

My main area was how BJP are attempting to rewrite history and pretend that true facts have been hidden from Hindu masses and it aligns with how they are rewriting history elsewhere. I also see major issues with this type of religious belief being mentioned in classrooms, regardless of the faith in question.
 
Of course you are welcome to discuss the OP however you wish.

I guess my point was that most Muslims by default would disagree with the BJP MPs statement otherwise our names would be Ramkumar, so it goes without saying.

My main area was how BJP are attempting to rewrite history and pretend that true facts have been hidden from Hindu masses and it aligns with how they are rewriting history elsewhere. I also see major issues with this type of religious belief being mentioned in classrooms, regardless of the faith in question.
Most Muslims by default would disagree with the OP?

No, almost everyone, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, white, brown, black, man, woman - would disagree with the claim made in the OP.

A right wing terrorist government re-writing history by making such ludicrous claims isn't something new, and deserves to be criticised, ridiculed, and spanked in public.

We're not the ones making the religious claim, the cult are.
 
I see how a person’s faith can get people offended, I personally feel very offended at some of the posts here.(need to grow out of it , yes)
@big_gamer007
I do blame BJP here but hard not to notice the people who are religious taking a go at Dharmic faith.
I am not offended that someone is talking about their religion, in fact I am not even offended at all. I am just laughing right now because this was said by a politician, a person in a position of authority in a public school for children.

You want to ask why is this being talked about in school, rather than question why someone if being offended. Last time I checked, Indian claims to be a secular country. Here they are simply pushing the Hindi ideology at the schools, maybe it's a PR moment for the RWinger, etc, but you wont see that in the WEST where countries believe in the separation of church and state.
 
Most Muslims by default would disagree with the OP?

No, almost everyone, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, white, brown, black, man, woman - would disagree with the claim made in the OP.

A right wing terrorist government re-writing history by making such ludicrous claims isn't something new, and deserves to be criticised, ridiculed, and spanked in public.

We're not the ones making the religious claim, the cult are.
So you think Non-Muslims who are black, brown, blue and white will agree with the stories in Islamic scriptures?

You calling BJP terrorist means nothing. OBL was chilling in Pakistan when he was caught and you are calling Indian government Terrorist? Man man man.....:salute
 
I am not offended that someone is talking about their religion, in fact I am not even offended at all. I am just laughing right now because this was said by a politician, a person in a position of authority in a public school for children.

You want to ask why is this being talked about in school, rather than question why someone if being offended. Last time I checked, Indian claims to be a secular country. Here they are simply pushing the Hindi ideology at the schools, maybe it's a PR moment for the RWinger, etc, but you wont see that in the WEST where countries believe in the separation of church and state.
Most Muslims by default would disagree with the OP?

No, almost everyone, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, white, brown, black, man, woman - would disagree with the claim made in the OP.

A right wing terrorist government re-writing history by making such ludicrous claims isn't something new, and deserves to be criticised, ridiculed, and spanked in public.

We're not the ones making the religious claim, the cult are.
@Champ_Pal @RexRex

No Muslim is offended at all about talking about their religion, there is no need to be angry. All Muslims welcome the discussion on:​
  1. Meraj (Heavenly Journey of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ)​
  2. Anything else on Islam​
Provided that the person clearly states their belief and willing to engage in the same debate about their belief (Atheism, Agnostic, Hinduism, Christianity or whatever).

We will standby anything in Islam and open it to scrutiny (Science, logic, Philosophy) provided that the other person acknowledges their beliefs and does the same.

If the person doesn't believe in anything that's fine too, acknowledge it and open it to the same scrutiny and same standards.

Own Your Beliefs.
He calls Hinduism stories fake, but accepts his own religion's scriptures are scientifically correct.. :ROFLMAO: :dw
Yes, I do believe that what is described in the Qur'aan can be discussed, debated and explained.

Commit as a man that we will discuss the Prophetic Journey to Heavens (Islam) vs Hanuman (in Hinduism) using same standards.

No lying, no cheating and no deception.

We will apply the same standards to Qur'aan and the Hindu Scriptures.

Btw, everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want but they do not have the right to challenge someone else's beliefs without offering a counterpoint.

No time for trolling or gaming but all the time in the world for serious discussions.

Stay blessed Brother @Champ_Pal

So you think Non-Muslims who are black, brown, blue and white will agree with the stories in Islamic scriptures?

You calling BJP terrorist means nothing. OBL was chilling in Pakistan when he was caught and you are calling Indian government Terrorist? Man man man.....:salute

You will be left without an argument if you are honest, truthful and straightforward when it comes to Qur'aan.
 
We will standby anything in Islam and open it to scrutiny (Science, logic, Philosophy) provided that the other person acknowledges their beliefs and does the same.​

Still waiting for you to prove how Islam's miracles are a lot more believable than those of Hinduism. You made a claim and then disappeared.
 
@LordJames. at least you called me brother this time. You were extremely triggered yesterday and resorted to name calling. Some of your fellow country posts were Hinduphobic. Anyways, I don't really care. I have mentioned a few times that I am a cultural Hindu and not a believing one.

So here we go.... For staters, lets start here...

1) How is Miraj scientific?
2) How is Adam 90 feet tall?

Promise you will not get upset over my questions. I will not use derogatory words towards you or your religion. We can discuss in a civil way. So go ahead...
 
Still waiting for you to prove how Islam's miracles are a lot more believable than those of Hinduism. You made a claim and then disappeared.

@LordJames. at least you called me brother this time. You were extremely triggered yesterday and resorted to name calling. Some of your fellow country posts were Hinduphobic. Anyways, I don't really care. I have mentioned a few times that I am a cultural Hindu and not a believing one.

So here we go.... For staters, lets start here...

1) How is Miraj scientific?
2) How is Adam 90 feet tall?

Promise you will not get upset over my questions. I will not use derogatory words towards you or your religion. We can discuss in a civil way. So go ahead...
  1. Confirm Your Beliefs, not Culture...Say that as a Belief system (I am Atheist, Agnostic, Sanatani, Christian etc).
  2. We will apply the same standards to your Belief (whatever it is) and judge it using the same standards
  3. We will start with Prophets Journey to the Heavens, first
  4. THEN we will go with yours
Please Go Ahead.

@Champ_Pal I have prayed for your family before, please deny and I will search and post the link for you.

The issue is dishonesty, deception and cheating and unable to engage with the topic. If I post something logical or philosophical or scientific by all means:
  1. Ask if you don't understand
  2. Tear it apart (that's exactly the point)
I will also do the same and ask where I don't understand.

Lastly, everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want but nobody has the right to ask questions about someone else's belief without opening their belief system to similar scrutiny, I think that's just fair.

  1. Once you have confirmed your belief
  2. State your objection clearly about an issue in Islam and then stick to it.
1 Question from you and 1 Question from me
 
I am not offended that someone is talking about their religion, in fact I am not even offended at all. I am just laughing right now because this was said by a politician, a person in a position of authority in a public school for children.

You want to ask why is this being talked about in school, rather than question why someone if being offended. Last time I checked, Indian claims to be a secular country. Here they are simply pushing the Hindi ideology at the schools, maybe it's a PR moment for the RWinger, etc, but you wont see that in the WEST where countries believe in the separation of church and state.

Yes West is better than South Asia in science.
Also BJP is terrible promoting irrational thoughts, even worse was students saying Armstrong was first in space which is wrong as well.

Now that’s out of the way, the posters here on a moderated platform are well educated and able to articulate their thoughts aren’t looking for PR political points either, I’m calling them out.
 
Yes West is better than South Asia in science.
Also BJP is terrible promoting irrational thoughts, even worse was students saying Armstrong was first in space which is wrong as well.

Now that’s out of the way, the posters here on a moderated platform are well educated and able to articulate their thoughts aren’t looking for PR political points either, I’m calling them out.
No issues with established science and established facts and nobody should have any issues with it.
 
  1. Confirm Your Beliefs, not Culture...Say that as a Belief system (I am Atheist, Agnostic, Sanatani, Christian etc).
  2. We will apply the same standards to your Belief (whatever it is) and judge it using the same standards
  3. We will start with Prophets Journey to the Heavens, first
  4. THEN we will go with yours
Please Go Ahead.

@Champ_Pal I have prayed for your family before, please deny and I will search and post the link for you.

The issue is dishonesty, deception and cheating and unable to engage with the topic. If I post something logical or philosophical or scientific by all means:
  1. Ask if you don't understand
  2. Tear it apart (that's exactly the point)
I will also do the same and ask where I don't understand.

Lastly, everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want but nobody has the right to ask questions about someone else's belief without opening their belief system to similar scrutiny, I think that's just fair.

  1. Once you have confirmed your belief
  2. State your objection clearly about an issue in Islam and then stick to it.
1 Question from you and 1 Question from me
I do not believe in any religion. How does my religion or faith effect the truth about Miraj or Adam's height?

We are not debating Islam vs Atheism or Agnosticism. We will discuss the veracity of claims in Islamic scriptures. Atheism or lack of belief has nothing to do with the question.:rolleyes:
 
I do not believe in any religion. How does my religion or faith effect the truth about Miraj or Adam's height?

We are not debating Islam vs Atheism or Agnosticism. We will discuss the veracity of claims in Islamic scriptures. Atheism or lack of belief has nothing to do with the question.:rolleyes:
Say that you are an Atheist and own it.

We will answer objections on Islam from you first and then you stand your ground and defend your Atheist belief using science, logic and Philosophy.

Whenever you agree, state your question fully and clearly and we go first in defending it and by all means tear the response apart not troll but tear the response with evidence and Intellect

Put Emoji is not a response to a detailed answer to your question.

Agree and lets go.

State your belief e.g. "I do not believe in a God or Creator"
 
Say that you are an Atheist and own it.

We will answer objections on Islam from you first and then you stand your ground and defend your Atheist belief using science, logic and Philosophy.

Whenever you agree, state your question fully and clearly and we go first in defending it and by all means tear the response apart not troll but tear the response with evidence and Intellect

Put Emoji is not a response to a detailed answer to your question.

Agree and lets go.

State your belief e.g. "I do not believe in a God or Creator"
Ok. I am an Atheist.

Now explain the claim of Miraj and how it is scientifically true...... :apology
 
Ok. I am an Atheist.

Now explain the claim of Miraj and how it is scientifically true...... :apology
I appreciate that.
  1. Please confirm that you do not believe in a God or Creator
  2. State your first objection on Islam clearly and in detail. Take your time to formulate your query.
Thanks for your time.
 
I appreciate that.
  1. Please confirm that you do not believe in a God or Creator
  2. State your first objection on Islam clearly and in detail. Take your time to formulate your query.
Thanks for your time.
:facepalm
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Stop tap dancing dude. Do you have the courage to answer or you just want to waste time? :rolleyes:

I already asked my question.

-> Explain how Meraj is scientifically true. How can a donkey fly? How can a man in space breathe without any special equipment?
-> How is Adam 90 feet tall? Any evidence for that?

For now just answer these 2 questions. We can discuss others later. If answering both is difficult, then answer the first question. Putting religious angle aside, how is a man flying on a donkey to outer space scientific?
 
If you are a HIndu, you have to believe that Hanuman could travel in space. It is part of their faith even if it is mythology.

People calling it disgraceful should look into their own religion.
They are who believing on fake ideology since Century's... :klopp :kp
 
:facepalm
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Stop tap dancing dude. Do you have the courage to answer or you just want to waste time? :rolleyes:

I already asked my question.

-> Explain how Meraj is scientifically true. How can a donkey fly? How can a man in space breathe without any special equipment?
-> How is Adam 90 feet tall? Any evidence for that?

For now just answer these 2 questions. We can discuss others later. If answering both is difficult, then answer the first question. Putting religious angle aside, how is a man flying on a donkey to outer space scientific?

@Champ_Pal First Objection on Islam (Al'Isra Wal-Meraj)
  1. Al-Isra: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Madina (Saudi Arabia) to Jerusalem and then...
  2. Miraj: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Jerusalem to Heavens
All in a single night over 1400+ years ago.

How is that possible?

Clarification:


There are 3 opinions in Islam on this issue:
  1. This was a dream
  2. The soul of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) was taken but his body remained physically in Madina
  3. The soul and physical body of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) were taken on this journey.
I will take point 3 which is the most difficult position and discuss it from philosophy, logic and science.

Thanks
 
@Champ_Pal First Objection on Islam (Al'Isra Wal-Meraj)
  1. Al-Isra: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Madina (Saudi Arabia) to Jerusalem and then...
  2. Miraj: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Jerusalem to Heavens
All in a single night over 1400+ years ago.

How is that possible?

Clarification:

There are 3 opinions in Islam on this issue:
  1. This was a dream
  2. The soul of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) was taken but his body remained physically in Madina
  3. The soul and physical body of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) were taken on this journey.
I will take point 3 which is the most difficult position and discuss it from philosophy, logic and science.

Thanks
Don't give me opinions. Islam is one. By giving 3 opinions on a simple topic like Miraj, you have shown that Islam is just like Hinduism. Different answers if you ask different people.

Anyways, since you said, you think it is option 3, tell me scientifically how he traveled physically to Jerusalem and then proceeded to heavens? I will wait for your answer.
 
Don't give me opinions. Islam is one. By giving 3 opinions on a simple topic like Miraj, you have shown that Islam is just like Hinduism. Different answers if you ask different people.

Fair point, turns out Islam is indeed just like Hinduism ... if there are mutiple theories on what actually happened :unsure:
 
@Champ_Pal First Objection on Islam (Al'Isra Wal-Meraj)
  1. Al-Isra: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Madina (Saudi Arabia) to Jerusalem and then...
  2. Miraj: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) traveled from Jerusalem to Heavens
All in a single night over 1400+ years ago.

How is that possible?

Clarification:

There are 3 opinions in Islam on this issue:
  1. This was a dream
  2. The soul of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) was taken but his body remained physically in Madina
  3. The soul and physical body of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) were taken on this journey.
I will take point 3 which is the most difficult position and discuss it from philosophy, logic and science.

Thanks
This was a background.

Don't give me opinions. Islam is one. By giving 3 opinions on a simple topic like Miraj, you have shown that Islam is just like Hinduism. Different answers if you ask different people.

Anyways, since you said, you think it is option 3, tell me scientifically how he traveled physically to Jerusalem and then proceeded to heavens? I will wait for your answer.

Fair point, turns out Islam is indeed just like Hinduism ... if there are mutiple theories on what actually happened :unsure:

If you think that 3 is not the hardest position, please pick the position which you want me to answer. Considering it was a dream is a no-brainier and nothing to answer, a person can dream about anything. The reason I mentioned it is because I am telling that an opinion does exist but it is not mainstream and we will go with the hardest version and not do a cop out and chicken out that it was a dream.

Suspend trolling and be serious and lets engage.

No, I believe that he physically traveled with his physical body.

So I am picking the hardest position that he physically traveled with his physical body.

If you think I am cheating, State your objection clearly and take your time and write in detail and I will answer to your question.​
 
This was a background.





If you think that 3 is not the hardest position, please pick the position which you want me to answer. Considering it was a dream is a no-brainier and nothing to answer, a person can dream about anything. The reason I mentioned it is because I am telling that an opinion does exist but it is not mainstream and we will go with the hardest version and not do a cop out and chicken out that it was a dream.

Suspend trolling and be serious and lets engage.

No, I believe that he physically traveled with his physical body.

So I am picking the hardest position that he physically traveled with his physical body.

If you think I am cheating, State your objection clearly and take your time and write in detail and I will answer to your question.​
A few points to destroy your position(or lack of it).

If it is just a dream, then Al Aqsa mosque has no significance. Anybody can have a dream going somewhere. That does not mean that they own that place. I had a dream once that I had dinner at Amitabh Bacchan's house. Does not mean I can build a room there and own his house.

Secondly, you are saying you take the hardest position. The journey was physical. You have yet to prove scientifically how a human can go to outer space on a winged donkey.

Go ahead....... :rolleyes:

So far you answered nothing. Just put forth 3 opinions and you picked one. I am asking you to prove it scientifically. Don't runaway....:dw
 
A few points to destroy your position(or lack of it).

If it is just a dream, then Al Aqsa mosque has no significance. Anybody can have a dream going somewhere. That does not mean that they own that place. I had a dream once that I had dinner at Amitabh Bacchan's house. Does not mean I can build a room there and own his house.

Secondly, you are saying you take the hardest position. The journey was physical. You have yet to prove scientifically how a human can go to outer space on a winged donkey.

Go ahead....... :rolleyes:

So far you answered nothing. Just put forth 3 opinions and you picked one. I am asking you to prove it scientifically. Don't runaway....:dw
Dear @Champ_Pal
  1. I am not taking the position that it is a dream.​
  2. I am taking the position that it was physical with a physical body
  3. I have not answered anything, yet.​
Please respond in English that you understand 3 lines in Plain English.

No Emoji, no trolling, respond to say that you understand what is written in Plain English. If you don't understand ask and I will clarify what is written.

Thanks​
 
Ok. I am an Atheist.

Now explain the claim of Miraj and how it is scientifically true...... :apology


So as an atheist, you are answering questions about authenticity of Hanuman being the first space traveller by...asking questions about Miraj?

You are the atheist here, not the believers.
 
So as an atheist, you are answering questions about authenticity of Hanuman being the first space traveller by...asking questions about Miraj?

You are the atheist here, not the believers.
This is what happens when you read one post and reply.🙄

I have said I do not believe that Hanuman leaped into outer space. But he is a Demi-God. He is supposed to have magical powers. Believers believe in his miracles. I don’t believe any such thing happened. 👍
 
Dear @Champ_Pal
  1. I am not taking the position that it is a dream.​
  2. I am taking the position that it was physical with a physical body
  3. I have not answered anything, yet.​
Please respond in English that you understand 3 lines in Plain English.

No Emoji, no trolling, respond to say that you understand what is written in Plain English. If you don't understand ask and I will clarify what is written.

Thanks​
It is quite clear he is not even reading your full posts and ranting and raving.

I suggest people remain calm, we will get this Hanuman off your back if you practice patience and take time to fully read and understand the messages being posted.
 
So as an atheist, you are answering questions about authenticity of Hanuman being the first space traveller by...asking questions about Miraj?

You are the atheist here, not the believers.
These new breed of Atheists are a work of art.

They don't believe in any form of God, but will protect and preserve the divine right of the chosen ones, and defend Hindutva by claiming its the greatest ideology.

I don't think there's ever been a more confused and isolated strand of human DNA in all of human history.
 
So as an atheist, you are answering questions about authenticity of Hanuman being the first space traveller by...asking questions about Miraj?

You are the atheist here, not the believers.
These new breed of Atheists are a work of art.

They don't believe in any form of God, but will protect and preserve the divine right of the chosen ones, and defend Hindutva by claiming its the greatest ideology.

I don't think there's ever been a more confused and isolated strand of human DNA in all of human history.
Debating with Champ_Pal is a massive waste of time. Then again, debating with any sanghi is a waste of time.

They are not interested in learning. They just want to rant and argue for the sake of it.

Yes that is correct.

@Champ_Pal is an Atheist who does not believe in God or Creator but...
  1. No Problems with Hindus believing in "Space Travel" of Hanuman, this is not possible as claimed by @Champ_Pal and I will describe and prove why, later.
  2. Problems with Muslims believing in Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) having traveled from Earth to Heavens in a single night:
    1. Unable to refute this from Physics
    2. Unable to refute this from Philosophy & Logic
For now let him discuss Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him).

Thanks
 
Yes that is correct.

@Champ_Pal is an Atheist who does not believe in God or Creator but...
  1. No Problems with Hindus believing in "Space Travel" of Hanuman, this is not possible as claimed by @Champ_Pal and I will describe and prove why, later.
  2. Problems with Muslims believing in Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) having traveled from Earth to Heavens in a single night:
    1. Unable to refute this from Physics
    2. Unable to refute this from Philosophy & Logic
For now let him discuss Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him).

Thanks
Why will I have a problem with what other Hindus beleive? Do you think I will force everyone to give up their beliefs and faith?

Are you declaring unilateral victory in a different thread? What a joke..... I have responded to your claims. Read them and get enlightened.
 
Why will I have a problem with what other Hindus beleive? Do you think I will force everyone to give up their beliefs and faith?

Are you declaring unilateral victory in a different thread? What a joke..... I have responded to your claims. Read them and get enlightened.

Exactly what I am saying. You are an Atheist but:
  1. You don't have a problem with Hindu Beliefs when you don't understand the error which you are making.
  2. You have a problem with Muslim Beliefs and unable to articulate your problem
Its not the belief, its the science behind it which you cannot grasp.

Thanks
 
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Exactly what I am saying. You are an Atheist but:
  1. You don't have a problem with Hindu Beliefs when you don't understand the error which you are making.
  2. You have a problem with Muslim Beliefs and unable to articulate your problem
Its not the belief, its the science behind it which you cannot grasp.

Thanks
I don't have any problem with anyone believing anything. It is their brain and they can imagine and think whatever way they want to.

This whole topic started because some of Pak posters started mocking Hindu beliefs. I said similar claims were made in Islamic scriptures too. You chimed in and said it is all scientific. Now you know how it started. But your posts are quite amusing.
 
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I don't have any problem with anyone believing anything. It is their brain and they can imagine and think whatever way they want to.

This whole topic started because some of Pak posters started mocking Hindu beliefs. I said similar claims were made in Islamic scriptures too. You chimed in and said it is all scientific. Now you know how it started. But your posts are quite amusing.
Dear @Champ_Pal

And you have the chance of a lifetime to refute and provide scientific evidence on "amusing posts" but at least read and reply to what is being said.

Wonderful chance for you to look good and shine, golden opportunity.

If you cannot see the difference between what you are "claiming" about Hanuman and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) journey to the Heavens at least ask

You & @Major is making the same scientific error.

Once Again: I am commenting on the science, a person is free to believe in whatever they want to believe.

Thanks
 
Explaining the issue using World-Intersection Points

Characters:


  1. @KingKhanWC in London
  2. @LordJames in Chicago
Scenario 1:

Since we are in two different physical locations we cannot experience the same thing. @KingKhanWC can turn on his webcam and show me the scene outside the window but there is no way I can experience it and feel what he is feeling.

Ok.. What has this got to do with our discussion?

Scenario 2:

I & @KingKhanWC agree to meet at:

  1. JFK Airport (New York City)
  2. Terminal 4
  3. Gate 32F
  4. August 26, 2025
  5. 09:32 (local time)
If either of us is not there at the exact location and at exact time, we will neither meet nor experience or feel what the other is doing at the same time.
This is obvious. Again what has this got to do with our discussion on time dilation and alternate time dimension?
Scenario 3:

I & @KingKhanWC agree to meet at:

  1. JFK Airport (New York City)
  2. Terminal 4
  3. Gate 32F
  4. August 26, 2025
  5. 09:32 (local time)
I arrive 10 minutes late so although I am on the same spot I experience different reality to him and since he wanted 9 minutes and left, his reality is different.

We cannot be eye witnesses to each other because we are not in the same reality.

What is left out is multi-dimensions and bending of space/time but similar concepts apply.
Again. What you are saying has nothing to do with the concept of alternate time dimension and time dilation.
Therefore Islam makes no such claims of "eye witnesses" of Prophet's Journey to the heavens.
So basically what you are saying is no one in Jerusalem saw this because they are all late for the prayer meeting or they did not have webcam or they were in different place at that time?
Not interested in wasting my time, let @Champ_Pal commit to his beliefs being put to the same level of scrutiny.
The examples you gave prove nothing. But good attempt to muddle the concept of time dilation and alternate time dimensions which is not proven that it exists.

If this is what your evidence is for the story of Miraj, you need to come up with better explanations and ideas.

Anyways, none of the Hadiths or seerah of Prophet PBUH mentions anything about time dimensions and dilations that you seem to interject in this matter. You are using modern science to prove something that Quran does not claim to begin with.

Let me explain to you again for the sake of repetition.
The concept of time dilation applies even in alternate time dimensions that you mentioned. If someone goes to highest heavens, then that someone is traveling at the speed of light to comeback on the same night. Traveling billions of miles takes light speed to achieve if they have to comeback quickly. But due to time dilation, Prophet PBUH may not have aged at all. For him, it’s a matter of few hours. His clock slows down to near zero. But on earth thousands and millions of years may have passed. Your explanation is not making any sense. You need to try again with better explanations.
 
Let me explain to you again for the sake of repetition.
The concept of time dilation applies even in alternate time dimensions that you mentioned. If someone goes to highest heavens, then that someone is traveling at the speed of light to comeback on the same night. Traveling billions of miles takes light speed to achieve if they have to comeback quickly. But due to time dilation, Prophet PBUH may not have aged at all. For him, it’s a matter of few hours. His clock slows down to near zero. But on earth thousands and millions of years may have passed. Your explanation is not making any sense. You need to try again with better explanations.

There could've been a wormhole. There could've been teleportation.

For Allah (SWT), nothing is an impossibility. Allah (SWT) is not limited by any limitation.

 
Dear @Champ_Pal

And you have the chance of a lifetime to refute and provide scientific evidence on "amusing posts" but at least read and reply to what is being said.

Wonderful chance for you to look good and shine, golden opportunity.

If you cannot see the difference between what you are "claiming" about Hanuman and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) journey to the Heavens at least ask

You & @Major is making the same scientific error.

Once Again: I am commenting on the science, a person is free to believe in whatever they want to believe.

Thanks
I have used the wonderful opportunity to explain to you what time dilation is. You seem to think time dilation means not present at the same location or not having webcam etc. That is not what time dilation is. Read my post above. I explained how it works.

If you say it was just a dream or spiritual journey, then there is nothing to discuss. I used science to disprove your claim. You are just throwing Physics terms without proper understanding of what they mean. Hope you learned something today.
 
There could've been a wormhole. There could've been teleportation.

For Allah (SWT), nothing is an impossibility. Allah (SWT) is not limited by any limitation.

Sure buddy. Wormhole, Quazars, Pulsars, neutron stars, black holes…..
just stop it. Quran does not claim any of those things. None of the explanations of Quran claim any of the ones you mentioned.

It was time dilation and alternate time dimensions first and now it is wormholes. Just stop it.
 
Sure buddy. Wormhole, Quazars, Pulsars, neutron stars, black holes…..
just stop it. Quran does not claim any of those things. None of the explanations of Quran claim any of the ones you mentioned.

It was time dilation and alternate time dimensions first and now it is wormholes. Just stop it.

If you don't want to believe, that's your matter. I don't have much expectations from you. :inti

As Muslims, we believe in this miraculous journey. If Allah (SWT) wills something, it happens no matter what.

Allah (SWT) is not limited by any limitation.
 
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I see how a person’s faith can get people offended, I personally feel very offended at some of the posts here.(need to grow out of it , yes)
@big_gamer007
I do blame BJP here but hard not to notice the people who are religious taking a go at Dharmic faith.

This whole thread was started just to throw shade and digs on religion.

In retaliation, one can open thousands of threads mocking Islam and the beliefs in Islam.

That’s how fights start and hatred develops between two communities.

OP is one of the few sensible people on this forum and he fell for it as well, that’s why I believe there will never be peace in the world, since humans doesn’t know how to ignore things.

Truth be told, majority of the content on PP will make you hate the other community/nationality, irrespective of which side of spectrum you fall under. That’s just how posters here are and nowadays mods have become the same. Best is to ignore these things, stop spending too much time on these forums and enjoy life.
 
Thakur was not the only sanghi who exhibit there traits. There is another one,

After Anurag Thakur's 'Hanuman In Space' Remark, BJP Leader's '1st Plane' Claim​


Days after BJP leader Anurag Thakur told school students that Lord Hanuman might have been the first space traveller, his senior party colleague Shivraj Singh Chouhan has claimed that India had flying machines long before the Wright brothers invented the aeroplane.

Speaking at the Indian Institute of Science, Education and Research (IISER) in Bhopal, Mr Chouhan referred to the 'Pushpaka Vimana' described in Hindu epics, suggesting that advanced technology existed in ancient India.

"We had the Pushpak Viman long before the Wright brothers invented the aeroplane. Drones and missiles that we have today were already with us for thousands of years. We have read all this in the Mahabharata. Our country's science and technology were already developed thousands of years ago," Mr Chouhan claimed.
 
Not so long ago, feku claimed that ancient India had examples of plastic surgery being performed, by citing example of Lord Ganesha.
 
Just see where these illiterates showing their lack of education, in front of impressionable students. Shameful.

If you believe something is true as per your religion, keep it to yourself, do not parade such 'facts' but everyone and their dog knows why is this done.
 
Drones and missiles that we have today were already with us for thousands of years.
lol, despite possessing all this, we stayed slaves of Portugese, Lodhs, Mughals and then English for centuries. Why couldn't we use them to get independence from such tyrants?

That's my grouse with these good for nothing sanghis, first speak out of their backsides and make India the butt of ridicule from everyone, except the gullible.
 
This whole thread was started just to throw shade and digs on religion.

In retaliation, one can open thousands of threads mocking Islam and the beliefs in Islam.

That’s how fights start and hatred develops between two communities.

OP is one of the few sensible people on this forum and he fell for it as well, that’s why I believe there will never be peace in the world, since humans doesn’t know how to ignore things.

Truth be told, majority of the content on PP will make you hate the other community/nationality, irrespective of which side of spectrum you fall under. That’s just how posters here are and nowadays mods have become the same. Best is to ignore these things, stop spending too much time on these forums and enjoy life.
The religious beliefs of Hindus are known to us from childhood. If the intention was to mock it, then we could have mocked without hesitation.

The key issue for me is not the belief. He, you, me, can believe what they want.

But he is a former government minister, current elected official making these statements to impressionable kids and pretending that their true history isn't known to them. That is a very dangerous ideology, it has been present in BJP politicians before, and hence why I thought the issue was interesting.

As I said earlier in the thread had a PMLN minister in Pakistan made similar statements about Islamic beliefs and claimed that rocketships were invented by Muslims he should similarly be condemned.
 
Hanuman Ji’s space travel is just as true as Neil Armstrong’s moon landing. The only difference is that the latter was claimed by the #OhGorays, and we desis accepted it without question.

Ancient India had countless inventions and ideas that were later patented by others, who then took credit. The concept of flying machines, for example, was described by Indian sages in Ayyavazhi mythology as the Pushpak Vimana.

Similarly, the concept of nuclear weapons appears in the Mahabharata as the “Brahmastra.” During the Kurukshetra War, this weapon was forbidden because it could destroy the Earth. This epic was written over 2,000 years ago, while nuclear weapons were only “invented” by the modern world in recent times.

Another example is plastic surgery. I am sure some Amreekans will take credit for it and we will sing the praise of #OhGorays.. But if you study Sushruta’s work, you’ll see he pioneered plastic surgery around 600 BC.

The Indus Valley Civilization featured advanced urban planning with organized layouts, complex sewage systems, and flush toilets in homes, long before the modern world “invented” them.

Who invented shampoo? Few know that in ancient India it was made by boiling Sapindus berries, dried Indian gooseberry (amla), and other herbs. Yet if you ask around, people will credit Hans Schwarzkopf in 1927.

Ancient India was rich in discoveries and innovations that shape the modern world. The problem is, we never patented them, and centuries of invasions erased much of this knowledge. Now, when someone recalls these facts—as the BJP leader did—people mock them instead of appreciating our heritage.

#OhGorays

:kp
 
Hanuman Ji’s space travel is just as true as Neil Armstrong’s moon landing. The only difference is that the latter was claimed by the #OhGorays, and we desis accepted it without question.

Ancient India had countless inventions and ideas that were later patented by others, who then took credit. The concept of flying machines, for example, was described by Indian sages in Ayyavazhi mythology as the Pushpak Vimana.

Similarly, the concept of nuclear weapons appears in the Mahabharata as the “Brahmastra.” During the Kurukshetra War, this weapon was forbidden because it could destroy the Earth. This epic was written over 2,000 years ago, while nuclear weapons were only “invented” by the modern world in recent times.

Another example is plastic surgery. I am sure some Amreekans will take credit for it and we will sing the praise of #OhGorays.. But if you study Sushruta’s work, you’ll see he pioneered plastic surgery around 600 BC.

The Indus Valley Civilization featured advanced urban planning with organized layouts, complex sewage systems, and flush toilets in homes, long before the modern world “invented” them.

Who invented shampoo? Few know that in ancient India it was made by boiling Sapindus berries, dried Indian gooseberry (amla), and other herbs. Yet if you ask around, people will credit Hans Schwarzkopf in 1927.

Ancient India was rich in discoveries and innovations that shape the modern world. The problem is, we never patented them, and centuries of invasions erased much of this knowledge. Now, when someone recalls these facts—as the BJP leader did—people mock them instead of appreciating our heritage.

#OhGorays

:kp

You can console yourself with these tales. Nobody cares about what happened thousands of years ago.

People judge a country/culture by how developed and civilized it is TODAY.
 
You can console yourself with these tales. Nobody cares about what happened thousands of years ago.

People judge a country/culture by how developed and civilized it is TODAY.
Silly thing to say. We must always remember our roots and past and acknowledge it.
 
⚠️ ANY FURTHER COMMENTS TAKING A DIG ON EACH OTHER'S RELIGION AND BELIEVES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND STRAIGHTAWAY LEAD TO WARNING POINTS/BAN.

WATCH YOUR POSTS AND SHOW SOME RESPECT TO EACH OTHER'S RACE, ETHNICITY, AND RELIGION.
 
Hanuman Ji’s space travel is just as true as Neil Armstrong’s moon landing. The only difference is that the latter was claimed by the #OhGorays, and we desis accepted it without question.

Ancient India had countless inventions and ideas that were later patented by others, who then took credit. The concept of flying machines, for example, was described by Indian sages in Ayyavazhi mythology as the Pushpak Vimana.

Similarly, the concept of nuclear weapons appears in the Mahabharata as the “Brahmastra.” During the Kurukshetra War, this weapon was forbidden because it could destroy the Earth. This epic was written over 2,000 years ago, while nuclear weapons were only “invented” by the modern world in recent times.

Another example is plastic surgery. I am sure some Amreekans will take credit for it and we will sing the praise of #OhGorays.. But if you study Sushruta’s work, you’ll see he pioneered plastic surgery around 600 BC.

The Indus Valley Civilization featured advanced urban planning with organized layouts, complex sewage systems, and flush toilets in homes, long before the modern world “invented” them.

Who invented shampoo? Few know that in ancient India it was made by boiling Sapindus berries, dried Indian gooseberry (amla), and other herbs. Yet if you ask around, people will credit Hans Schwarzkopf in 1927.

Ancient India was rich in discoveries and innovations that shape the modern world. The problem is, we never patented them, and centuries of invasions erased much of this knowledge. Now, when someone recalls these facts—as the BJP leader did—people mock them instead of appreciating our heritage.

#OhGorays

:kp
I think Hollywood even made a movie franchise about it. Planet of the Apes.
 
I think Hollywood even made a movie franchise about it. Planet of the Apes.
Not sure how it is relevant to my post. Looks like you have nothing to respond and trying to take a snide dig but failing to be funny as always.

All the things I have listed are available on internet for you to read and study.

Infact, Indus Valley Civilization was exactly where present day Pakistan is.

#ZeroKnowledge
#RajdeepSpreadsKnowledge
 
Not sure how it is relevant to my post. Looks like you have nothing to respond and trying to take a snide dig but failing to be funny as always.

All the things I have listed are available on internet for you to read and study.

Infact, Indus Valley Civilization was exactly where present day Pakistan is.

#ZeroKnowledge
#RajdeepSpreadsKnowledge
No actually, I am really curious. Why did Hanuman Ji go into space? what sort of a mission was he on? what was his purpose and what did he achieve? I think we could all benefit from that. Perhaps you can humor us and provide us the details.
 
If you don't want to believe, that's your matter. I don't have much expectations from you. :inti

As Muslims, we believe in this miraculous journey. If Allah (SWT) wills something, it happens no matter what.

Allah (SWT) is not limited by any limitation.
Its not a matter of what I believe. People can believe whatever they want to about their God or deity. You are one of the smarty pants that was laughing at Hindu beliefs. But conveniently ignore the stuff in your beliefs. One cannot search science in supernatural or miracles. Those are the things which either you believe happened or not.

Ultimately, it is for people to decide. No one should force them into believing what they want or does not want to. Live and let live.
 
Not so long ago, feku claimed that ancient India had examples of plastic surgery being performed, by citing example of Lord Ganesha.
Modi is a Hindu. If he does not believe that Lord Ganesha's story, then he is stepping away from his faith. This is no different to Muslims believing in Miraj story or Christians believing in resurrection story. Either you believe and become a believer or you don't and become an agnostic/atheist.
 
⚠️ ANY FURTHER COMMENTS TAKING A DIG ON EACH OTHER'S RELIGION AND BELIEVES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND STRAIGHTAWAY LEAD TO WARNING POINTS/BAN.

WATCH YOUR POSTS AND SHOW SOME RESPECT TO EACH OTHER'S RACE, ETHNICITY, AND RELIGION.

Islam has been abused for 15 years on this forum, but I agree. Perhaps all religion discussion should be banned?
 
@Champ_Pal What is a cultural Hindu? Someone who wont admit he is a Hindutva but spends more time defending Hindutva than Yogi bear.
You got me man. :dw :apology

But I will do the honors of explaining what a cultural Hindu means. It is someone who participates in all Hindu rituals, celebrates all Hindu festivals etc. But does not believe in the deities and the miracles mentioned. (y)
 
Islam has been abused for 15 years on this forum, but I agree. Perhaps all religion discussion should be banned?
25 years from 9/11

Yeah funny how Islam was the favourite for critique and abuse worldwide, under the banner of freedom, still is by the cult, but now the shoe is on the other foot, all of a sudden, cult Atheists have a problem when Hindutva, a rightwing strand of Hinduism, is now under the spotlight.

We must ask why is it that Hindutva, an ideology has failed to make its mark for over 5000 years, yet Monotheism, in particular Islam, is a 3rd of the age, and has already established the Islamic empire of the past, and is not the fastest growing religion.

The cult will never discuss why Islam is the fastest growing religion.
 
This whole thread was started just to throw shade and digs on religion.

In retaliation, one can open thousands of threads mocking Islam and the beliefs in Islam.

That’s how fights start and hatred develops between two communities.

OP is one of the few sensible people on this forum and he fell for it as well, that’s why I believe there will never be peace in the world, since humans doesn’t know how to ignore things.

Truth be told, majority of the content on PP will make you hate the other community/nationality, irrespective of which side of spectrum you fall under. That’s just how posters here are and nowadays mods have become the same. Best is to ignore these things, stop spending too much time on these forums and enjoy life.
Unfortunately true
 
Hanuman Ji’s space travel is just as true as Neil Armstrong’s moon landing. The only difference is that the latter was claimed by the #OhGorays, and we desis accepted it without question.

Ancient India had countless inventions and ideas that were later patented by others, who then took credit. The concept of flying machines, for example, was described by Indian sages in Ayyavazhi mythology as the Pushpak Vimana.

Similarly, the concept of nuclear weapons appears in the Mahabharata as the “Brahmastra.” During the Kurukshetra War, this weapon was forbidden because it could destroy the Earth. This epic was written over 2,000 years ago, while nuclear weapons were only “invented” by the modern world in recent times.

Another example is plastic surgery. I am sure some Amreekans will take credit for it and we will sing the praise of #OhGorays.. But if you study Sushruta’s work, you’ll see he pioneered plastic surgery around 600 BC.

The Indus Valley Civilization featured advanced urban planning with organized layouts, complex sewage systems, and flush toilets in homes, long before the modern world “invented” them.

Who invented shampoo? Few know that in ancient India it was made by boiling Sapindus berries, dried Indian gooseberry (amla), and other herbs. Yet if you ask around, people will credit Hans Schwarzkopf in 1927.

Ancient India was rich in discoveries and innovations that shape the modern world. The problem is, we never patented them, and centuries of invasions erased much of this knowledge. Now, when someone recalls these facts—as the BJP leader did—people mock them instead of appreciating our heritage.

#OhGorays

:kp
I don't know why people keep saying Neil Armstrong, it was Yuri Gagarin first person to space, even the students were stupid, In Chennai I knew this in 5th grade.
 
25 years from 9/11

Yeah funny how Islam was the favourite for critique and abuse worldwide, under the banner of freedom, still is by the cult, but now the shoe is on the other foot, all of a sudden, cult Atheists have a problem when Hindutva, a rightwing strand of Hinduism, is now under the spotlight.

We must ask why is it that Hindutva, an ideology has failed to make its mark for over 5000 years, yet Monotheism, in particular Islam, is a 3rd of the age, and has already established the Islamic empire of the past, and is not the fastest growing religion.

The cult will never discuss why Islam is the fastest growing religion.

Hindutva will have no new followers from anywhere in the world, its a small deranged ideology which believes they are a superiour race, some believe they come the white race lol. Have these jokers not seen the mirror.

Only a few have ever admitted they are Hindutvas on here, most pretend not to be but only like eating Ladoos with flowers on their wrists.

Its a dangerous ideology to some but overall Hindutva will ruin the people who follow it.
 
The religious beliefs of Hindus are known to us from childhood. If the intention was to mock it, then we could have mocked without hesitation.

The key issue for me is not the belief. He, you, me, can believe what they want.

But he is a former government minister, current elected official making these statements to impressionable kids and pretending that their true history isn't known to them. That is a very dangerous ideology, it has been present in BJP politicians before, and hence why I thought the issue was interesting.

As I said earlier in the thread had a PMLN minister in Pakistan made similar statements about Islamic beliefs and claimed that rocketships were invented by Muslims he should similarly be condemned.
Yeah but see where the topics have gone, consistent dig at Hanuman across the posts.
 
Islam has been abused for 15 years on this forum, but I agree. Perhaps all religion discussion should be banned?

All religious discussions should be allowed on here; people grow a thick skin and take criticisms like a man. No one likes censorship.
 
Modi is a Hindu. If he does not believe that Lord Ganesha's story, then he is stepping away from his faith. This is no different to Muslims believing in Miraj story or Christians believing in resurrection story. Either you believe and become a believer or you don't and become an agnostic/atheist.
The problem here is he can believe in Hinduism but Ganesha’s story has nothing to do with plastic surgery.

Why is he trying to put faith on a pedestal of belief, it’s faith.
 
25 years from 9/11

Yeah funny how Islam was the favourite for critique and abuse worldwide, under the banner of freedom, still is by the cult, but now the shoe is on the other foot, all of a sudden, cult Atheists have a problem when Hindutva, a rightwing strand of Hinduism, is now under the spotlight.

We must ask why is it that Hindutva, an ideology has failed to make its mark for over 5000 years, yet Monotheism, in particular Islam, is a 3rd of the age, and has already established the Islamic empire of the past, and is not the fastest growing religion.

The cult will never discuss why Islam is the fastest growing religion.
Which shoe is that? LOL

I thought you lived in the UK. Are you not seeing what’s going on around you this summer with migrant hotels and which religion is being specifically blamed? Or did you miss what happened last summer after Southport and which community was targeted?

Are you not following what’s happening with the Saint George’s flag in Tower Hamlets?

Have you not been keeping tabs on Elon Musk’s X page?

But…but…now apparently the “shoe has changed,” and suddenly everyone’s blaming right-wing Hindus. Hahaha.

Also, what’s this “cult” you keep typing about? Who exactly is this cult in Hinduism?

Kitne Darte ho yaar tum log :ROFLMAO:

1756303927634.png
 
The problem here is he can believe in Hinduism but Ganesha’s story has nothing to do with plastic surgery.

Why is he trying to put faith on a pedestal of belief, it’s faith.
He believes it is. Can you stop anyone from believing what they believe?

Everything depends on where he is saying and who his audience are. He can say anything about what he believes in private with his near and dear ones or to his party workers. But these things should never enter a classroom.
 
So you take part in rituals you believe are false, nonsense? lol Ok, please seek help
:sachin
My family believes in it. Usually both wife and husband have to be part of any ritual. I do it as a husband.

Hinduism does not force anyone to believe in its stories. It is up to the person to believe or not. This is not the case with your religion. So you will find it unacceptable. Forcing someone to believe is bad. The one forcing should seek help. Not me. :mv
 
The problem here is he can believe in Hinduism but Ganesha’s story has nothing to do with plastic surgery.

Why is he trying to put faith on a pedestal of belief, it’s faith.
Not sure about Ganesha's story but plastic surgery and surgery in general was started by Susruta in 700 BC

 
Islam has been abused for 15 years on this forum, but I agree. Perhaps all religion discussion should be banned?


I dont even abuse Hinduism. I just proclaim facts. .

Yes Islam may contain questionable tales that may seem mythic but it has one core concept that is universal which is god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

Having multiple gods automatically contradicts that notion. You can't have multiple omnipotent beings exist.

Secondly Islam doesn't claim to prove God's existence but rather believe in it. Whether you do it or not it is upto you.
 
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This is why the clown gang especially @Rajdeep is a hypocrite.

I dont even abuse Hinduism. I just proclaim facts. A space monkey exploring the stars is hocus.

Yes Islam may contain questionable tales that may seem mythic but it has one core concept that is universal which is god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

Having multiple gods automatically contradicts that notion. You can't have multiple omnipotent beings exist.

Secondly Islam doesn't claim to prove God's existence but rather believe in it. Whether you do it or not it is upto you.

Hinduism is having us believe a space Monkey is exploring the galaxy? Alongside dozen of other indian God's? Lol.

But overall I agree. Either ban all indians + religious discussions from the forumn or let me preach the truth thread by thread.
1. I have never abused Islam or any other religion. Don’t be silly—I respect all religions equally. I have even said here no religion teach bad things , else it will not be considered a religion. It is the people that misinterpret it sometimes. I however respond in the same tone when someone insults my religion or country. I think that’s fair.

2. Lord Hanuman was not a “monkey” in the way we understand today. He was from the Vanara kingdom, which depicted a race of humanoid apes—an extinct group of forest-dwelling people known for their immense strength and power. They were somewhat similar to Neanderthals, who are also extinct.

3. His space exploration is written in our mythology, and those who follow Hinduism believe in it—just like Muslims and Christians believe in their own religious texts.
 
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