Has Pakistan finally closed the gap between India and themselves since 2013?

[Slim]

indias bowling without bumrah is not scary, hardik bowled well, I think pak got caught out by his pace, I at least remembered him as a low 130s kinda pace bowler. would make more sense to treat him with more respect and target some of the new pacers.

indias batsmen however are much more measured, its babar or bust for Pakistan. hopefully the next season or two can find at least two t20 batsman for pak, but as it is Pakistan will not consistently win until they find two semi-consistent complete hitters.

Bumrah has a terrible record against Pakistan. Bhuvi and Hardik are the real Gs when it comes to Pakistan.

 

[Slim]

Go and see the scorecards of most Ind vs Pak T20 games between 2012-18.

There's a pattern...one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even showing up.

And it's not that Pakistan were a poor T20 side then but for some reason they couldn't even compete in those matches against India.

But in the last 2 games vs India, Pakistan have shown grit and fighting ability.

Good point, like i mentioned earlier - the new breed of Pakistani cricketers are somehow more mentally stronger.

 

[MP2011]

On topic, I think Pakistan has definitely closed the gap considerably due this generation of their players being mentally tougher than the previous generation.

 

[shaz619]

This is one of the weakest Pakistani T20I side I have seen. They lack 6th or 7th bowling options. Their middle order is non existent. They have not found any replacements for guys like Malik and Hafeez. Still they gave almost full strength India a tough fight.

I have to agree, best post I’ve read in a while. This is one of the worst Pakistani T20I teams of all time especially on paper, I don’t know how they manage to be competitive, the WC SF position was an overachievement. People have high expectations for the WC in Australia now but they need to tone it down really. The team has strong leadership and it seems the players are mostly on the same page, the coach doesn’t try to be bigger then the players either and all that combined results in increased belief and determination, but on paper it’s a bang average side, it reminds me of NZ of the early 2000’s bunch of jobbers who punched above their weight.

 

[Bewal Express]

Love to follow your comments, always have great insight.
I tend to agree that Hafeez and Malik were average.Who do you think has potential to develop in middle order in current options?

Tbh, there are hardly any stand out talents. Haider Ali has some talent but his batting intelligence and hunger are very questionable, besides him the cupboard is even more bare. Ahsan Ali from Karachi has talent but looks like someone's grandad with his fitness levels and Azam khan looks even worse.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Looks that way because India does not have the same quality anymore.

 

[Rana]

I believe they have

India knew that they had to score 200+ today to win

Not sure if they would have been this desperate to score that if this was the Pakistan of 2015

 

[RexRex]

Pakistan certainly has bettter finishers now than the older generations.

India blew it; 26 off 12 balls was a tough chase for Pakistan but they did it. There's something very effortless about the way Asif Ali hits his sixes.

Kohli's innings was with a pathetic strike rate. Time to move ahead without him.

 

[Slim]

What did i say!

Pakistan players mental game is on a TOTALLY another level now from the older generations. This is the real difference.

With young and mentally strong leaders in Rizwan, Babar, Shadab, and Shaheen. We are in safe hands. Absolutely proud of the boys.

 

[KyoOne]

Pakistan certainly has bettter finishers now than the older generations.

India blew it; 26 off 12 balls was a tough chase for Pakistan but they did it. There's something very effortless about the way Asif Ali hits his sixes.

Kohli's innings was with a pathetic strike rate. Time to move ahead without him.

Hooda would be his replacement who was poor today

 

[praveen]

Congratulations Pakistan. Excellent chase. Rejoice the win but be wary. We are going to come hard back at you

 

[Mobashir]

We are getting better and thank god India is not producing any player either.
The highly rated Sky, Hardik, Pant etc are just on par with our very poorly rated Asif Ali, Ifti and company.

 

[RexRex]

Hooda would be his replacement who was poor today

India need to get in some good strikers from the IPL .. Ishan, Venky, Gaikwad, Gill .. take your pick.

 

[Rana]

Congratulations Pakistan. Excellent chase. Rejoice the win but be wary. We are going to come hard back at you

Bro you came very hard today as well

The hardest I’ve seen India come us since 2003 wc

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

We are getting better and thank god India is not producing any player either.
The highly rated Sky, Hardik, Pant etc are just on par with our very poorly rated Asif Ali, Ifti and company.

Samson is good though but he is not the darling of selectors and our noob fans.

 

[Mobashir]

We are getting better and thank god India is not producing any player either.
The highly rated Sky, Hardik, Pant etc are just on par with our very poorly rated Asif Ali, Ifti and company.

 

[Villager6964]

Indian pacers are quite embarrassing apart from that weird action guy. Even spin bowling is not good.
That guy Ravi bishnoi got way too much respect and he was not that good.
He will get smashed in international cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Indian pacers are quite embarrassing apart from that weird action guy. Even spin bowling is not good.
That guy Ravi bishnoi got way too much respect and he was not that good.
He will get smashed in international cricket.

No offence but I think you are a very poor observer of the game. Bishnoi is 21. At this young age he is already a very unique leg-spinner and quite different from the ones we already have in the game. The kind of bounce and top-spin he gets completely sets him apart from just about every other leg-spinner in the game. I am sure he will learn to bowl with guile and smarts as he grows older. If anything, he has a bright future ahead of him.

 

[Mobashir]

The problem isn't India bowling but India's batting. They are the most over rated lot in the world.

 

[sjahmed23]

Pakistan definitely has the most exciting bowling unit since the Akhtar, Waqar, Wasim days. Every bowler is hitting 150 kph which is wow! I remember the dull days when Umar Gul was our best fast bowler and could only manage 140 kph and we had to play like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and rely on spinners like Afridi and Ajmal.

If we can developer batsmen like Haider Ali and Abdullah Shafique then I would think we would be a much better than India atm.

As Kohli and Sharma age I think India will go into a slump the new crop of players isnt as exciting.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Pakistan has improved and India has declined. This isn't the same India from 2013-2020. India will soon go through a transition period and decline even further

 

[angrypathan]

In T20s yeah there’s probably not much of a gap between the two sides. In tests I think we’re still a fair way behind, given that we couldn’t beat Australia at home let alone away

 

[BunnyRabbit]

One generation of Pak cricketers were very good but lost the plot often due to overconfidence, then the next generation was just too limited both mentally and skills wise to compete. This generation is showing a good balance and should succeed.

 

[ElRaja]

One generation of Pak cricketers were very good but lost the plot often due to overconfidence, then the next generation was just too limited both mentally and skills wise to compete. This generation is showing a good balance and should succeed.

pretty much this, pak form 2003 to 2016 was pretty consistently producing mediocre level players, and the four potential world class players that did come through in that time, jr, amir, asif, and ajmal each had their own unique issues.

in shaheen, shadab, babar and rizwan you have four players who would walk into any pak t20 team.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Even in so called "low" era of Pakistan cricket, we still managed to win "aane do" series in India

That said, of course India have been a better team than us for a while.

 

[moghul]

Bowling is getting better and a bit better than India but batting is really bad, the weakest in any major team. Trio of Iftikhar , Kushdil and Asif won't find place even in teams like Zimb, BD and Afghanistan.

 

[JaDed]

Even in so called "low" era of Pakistan cricket, we still managed to win "aane do" series in India

That said, of course India have been a better team than us for a while.

That happened for India too didn't it, when India was weaker than PCT it won the CT 1985 final against IK’s team.

 

[Forum363]

I think people don’t realise the hold India had over Pakistan was due to one main reason - Dhoni. Before he retired he instilled a great deputy in Kohli who took over and although he’s not been as effective as a leader, he’s just incredible in Pak/India matches. He’s been the sole difference between the teams on countless occasions. Huge Asia cup chase. Those t20s where Amir blew the top order away. Even today, he carried India to 180 when the overrated middle order of Yadav/ pant/ Hardik flopped. But it wasn’t enough due to poor bowling.

The fact that Indian fans complain about Kohli is insane to me from the outside. He’s not going to be the same player after being removed from captaincy and with him/ Rohit gone, India just don’t have the same aura they used to have.

 

[Forum363]

Also, I was nervous the World Cup game last year until the last over despite the low total and no wickets lost. Because of the hold India had over us. That seems a lot less after these past few matches.

 

[Cric1234]

I think people don’t realise the hold India had over Pakistan was due to one main reason - Dhoni. Before he retired he instilled a great deputy in Kohli who took over and although he’s not been as effective as a leader, he’s just incredible in Pak/India matches. He’s been the sole difference between the teams on countless occasions. Huge Asia cup chase. Those t20s where Amir blew the top order away. Even today, he carried India to 180 when the overrated middle order of Yadav/ pant/ Hardik flopped. But it wasn’t enough due to poor bowling.

The fact that Indian fans complain about Kohli is insane to me from the outside. He’s not going to be the same player after being removed from captaincy and with him/ Rohit gone, India just don’t have the same aura they used to have.

India are a decent test team but there is no aura in T20s they haven’t won a World Cup since the first one beating Pakistan a few times wasn’t anything special in Australia India will be favourites against Pakistan but they aren’t a great team in T20s.

Both India and Pakistan will need a special performance to win the World Cup in Australia against the non Asian teams but with conditions less suitable Pakistan will do well to win different high scoring matches on those pitches.

 

[Cric1234]

T20 is a format where times change the gap isn’t as big as in other formats it’s no surprise under suitable conditions Pakistan has beaten India no team will be dominant over a longer period in this format.

 

[Forum363]

India are a decent test team but there is no aura in T20s they haven’t won a World Cup since the first one beating Pakistan a few times wasn’t anything special in Australia India will be favourites against Pakistan but they aren’t a great team in T20s.

Both India and Pakistan will need a special performance to win the World Cup in Australia against the non Asian teams but with conditions less suitable Pakistan will do well to win different high scoring matches on those pitches.

They haven’t won a t20 World Cup but they certainly have an aura with the likes of Kohli, Sharma, Bumrah etc. plus the hype of IPL.

 

[sweep_shot]

Yup. Big time.

Pakistan should've won the first game too.

 

[JaDed]

Yup. Big time.

Pakistan should've won the first game too.

Or India should had won this game lol at your logic.

 

[MP2011]

Or India should had won this game lol at your logic.

lol, this.

 

[MP2011]

No offence but I think you are a very poor observer of the game. Bishnoi is 21. At this young age he is already a very unique leg-spinner and quite different from the ones we already have in the game. The kind of bounce and top-spin he gets completely sets him apart from just about every other leg-spinner in the game. I am sure he will learn to bowl with guile and smarts as he grows older. If anything, he has a bright future ahead of him.

This.

Bishnoi has been good so far, far better than that serial match loser Chahal.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

India's gung ho approach deserves some examination. I don't think this kind of approach is sustainable, even in T20s. Despite going very hard yesterday on what was a largely batting-friendly pitch, India failed to reach 200 and only had one batter that crossed 30: Kohli. And the reason he crossed 30 was because he was playing according to the situation and not trying to score multiple boundaries in every over.

 

[Rana]

India's gung ho approach deserves some examination. I don't think this kind of approach is sustainable, even in T20s. Despite going very hard yesterday on what was a largely batting-friendly pitch, India failed to reach 200 and only had one batter that crossed 30: Kohli. And the reason he crossed 30 was because he was playing according to the situation and not trying to score multiple boundaries in every over.

I think Rohit and India did the right thing. They were not willing to hope that their bowlers/fielders pull off defending a score of 180.

In Dubai, it is clear that you need to go 200+ to breathe freely knowing that this is a score that should be defended. Sharma knew this very well and wanted to target that 200+ score

Pakistan spinners and the pacers in the latter half of the innings brought the score down to what should have been 175 max.

Any top 6 team would chase that kind of score 9/10 times in Dubai.

I would hope for Pakistan to take this approach also if they lose toss and have to bat first in Dubai. 170s simply won’t cut it!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Rohit and India did the right thing. They were not willing to hope that their bowlers/fielders pull off defending a score of 180.

In Dubai, it is clear that you need to go 200+ to breathe freely knowing that this is a score that should be defended. Sharma knew this very well and wanted to target that 200+ score

Pakistan spinners and the pacers in the latter half of the innings brought the score down to what should have been 175 max.

Any top 6 team would chase that kind of score 9/10 times in Dubai.

I would hope for Pakistan to take this approach also if they lose toss and have to bat first in Dubai. 170s simply won’t cut it!

I'm not saying they shouldn't attack or do something like what Pakistan seem to be doing while batting first. But their high-risk approach cost them because they had lost all their hitters/top-order batters by the 15th over.

 

[reversehook]

since babar took over the match fixing nonsense has ended.... we have a good batch of guys playing... in the old days, more than india it was match fixing which cost us the games most of the times... now the playing fields are even... also the senior nonsense and infightings/groupings...

 

[Rana]

since babar took over the match fixing nonsense has ended.... we have a good batch of guys playing... in the old days, more than india it was match fixing which cost us the games most of the times... now the playing fields are even... also the senior nonsense and infightings/groupings...

All that glitters isn’t gold

Time will tell.

 

[MenInG]

All that glitters isn’t gold

Time will tell.

In cricketing sense, if you win matches, then that is gold and it glitters.

 

[Rana]

In cricketing sense, if you win matches, then that is gold and it glitters.

Pakistan won the 2010 world cup

But with time we found out that there were 9/10 players who didn’t get along with each other.

We can obviously speculate that they all look like a happy bunch.

 

[Rana]

Indian fielding standards have dropped dramatically. Pakistan is able to field a side of 11 competent fielders, India not so. All of the bowlers who play for India hardly offer any confidence in the field whereas Pakistan’s main frontline bowlers are all good fielders too.

Shaheen
Rauf
Shadab
Nawaz
Dahani

Hasnain and Naseem need some work but they are not the worst either.

 

[Major]

since babar took over the match fixing nonsense has ended.... we have a good batch of guys playing... in the old days, more than india it was match fixing which cost us the games most of the times... now the playing fields are even... also the senior nonsense and infightings/groupings...

India pakistan matches have never had match fixing proven.

 

[Shafi]

Fakhar is the problem. Guy can't bat, field or catch. Next match Dhani should replace him.

 

[Fenrir]

Past Pakistani teams were very strong.They were not inferior to Indian teams but they couldn’t handle the pressure.Pakistan has been terrible against Australia even when there was not a huge difference between the teams.

 

[deep82]

Is this the new era of India vs Pakistan rivalry?

I have come to conclusion that this Pakistan team is no longer 'mentally scarred' against India.

Since last bilateral between the team(2012), India has 9-2 record against Pakistan until the 2021 T20 group game. All 11 games were played in neutral countries.

The only two win against India has been a 1 wicket win in Asia cup 2014 and the champions trophy final win. But the team was still mentally weak even after those two win and it could be seen in the results after that.

But Babar's team in 2021 T20 world cup changed that and are no longer timid against India. We can now start a new head to head from this position. It is 2-1 Pakistan till now and potential 2 matches to go.

Great for the India vs Pakistan rivalry.

 

[NishanKonar]

I think Rohit and India did the right thing. They were not willing to hope that their bowlers/fielders pull off defending a score of 180.

In Dubai, it is clear that you need to go 200+ to breathe freely knowing that this is a score that should be defended. Sharma knew this very well and wanted to target that 200+ score

Pakistan spinners and the pacers in the latter half of the innings brought the score down to what should have been 175 max.

Any top 6 team would chase that kind of score 9/10 times in Dubai.

I would hope for Pakistan to take this approach also if they lose toss and have to bat first in Dubai. 170s simply won’t cut it!

THis makes perfect sense

It was India's middle order - SKY , Pant and Pandya who cost us the match by failing to reach 200 after the blazing start by KLand Rohit

U cannot defend 180 in Dubai under lights

 

[NishanKonar]

I have come to conclusion that this Pakistan team is no longer 'mentally scarred' against India.

Since last bilateral between the team(2012), India has 9-2 record against Pakistan until the 2021 T20 group game. All 11 games were played in neutral countries.

The only two win against India has been a 1 wicket win in Asia cup 2014 and the champions trophy final win. But the team was still mentally weak even after those two win and it could be seen in the results after that.

But Babar's team in 2021 T20 world cup changed that and are no longer timid against India. We can now start a new head to head from this position. It is 2-1 Pakistan till now and potential 2 matches to go.

Great for the India vs Pakistan rivalry.

All 3 matches were played in Dubai - where the team winning toss won all 3 game. So cannot read too much into it

I think the World T20 in Melbourne will better indication !

 

[fieldMarshal]

Not not get ahead of our selfs just because of a game

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

THis makes perfect sense

It was India's middle order - SKY , Pant and Pandya who cost us the match by failing to reach 200 after the blazing start by KLand Rohit

U cannot defend 180 in Dubai under lights

All 3 matches were played in Dubai - where the team winning toss won all 3 game. So cannot read too much into it

I think the World T20 in Melbourne will better indication !

So in one post you are blaming India's middle order and in other you are using the same old toss excuse. How can you blame the toss for Pant's shot, Arshdeep dropping a catch and Pandya getting a phainta? Regarding that 152-0 match, you surely can't blame the toss therr as well when one team fails to take even a single wicket against their opposition.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Don't know this however first time i feel Pakistan is not afraid of playing india. The current group will always give tough time

 

[NishanKonar]

So in one post you are blaming India's middle order and in other you are using the same old toss excuse. How can you blame the toss for Pant's shot, Arshdeep dropping a catch and Pandya getting a phainta? Regarding that 152-0 match, you surely can't blame the toss therr as well when one team fails to take even a single wicket against their opposition.

Point is you cannot blame bowlers for not defending 182 in Dubai. We all saw that in last World T20. Every team that batted 2nd won

So the only way out in Dubai if u bat first is to score 200 plus. The Top 3 put India on a good start but Pant , SKY and Pandya played loosely and failed to take us part 200. That cost us the match

 

[arif_2021]

Point is you cannot blame bowlers for not defending 182 in Dubai. We all saw that in last World T20. Every team that batted 2nd won

So the only way out in Dubai if u bat first is to score 200 plus. The Top 3 put India on a good start but Pant , SKY and Pandya played loosely and failed to take us part 200. That cost us the match

India bowled poorly - 26 needed off 12 balls, should have been defended a little better.

Bhuvi - the most experienced bowler gave 19 runs.

Many wides. Many misfields.

Thats just a mediocre performance. Has nothing to do with pitch or conditions.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I have come to conclusion that this Pakistan team is no longer 'mentally scarred' against India.

Since last bilateral between the team(2012), India has 9-2 record against Pakistan until the 2021 T20 group game. All 11 games were played in neutral countries.

The only two win against India has been a 1 wicket win in Asia cup 2014 and the champions trophy final win. But the team was still mentally weak even after those two win and it could be seen in the results after that.

But Babar's team in 2021 T20 world cup changed that and are no longer timid against India. We can now start a new head to head from this position. It is 2-1 Pakistan till now and potential 2 matches to go.

Great for the India vs Pakistan rivalry.

India is weaker too, with Kohli and Sharma declining. The younger players don’t have the same star power as the previous generation.

 

[Minnowbasher]

I have come to conclusion that this Pakistan team is no longer 'mentally scarred' against India.

Since last bilateral between the team(2012), India has 9-2 record against Pakistan until the 2021 T20 group game. All 11 games were played in neutral countries.

The only two win against India has been a 1 wicket win in Asia cup 2014 and the champions trophy final win. But the team was still mentally weak even after those two win and it could be seen in the results after that.

But Babar's team in 2021 T20 world cup changed that and are no longer timid against India. We can now start a new head to head from this position. It is 2-1 Pakistan till now and potential 2 matches to go.

Great for the India vs Pakistan rivalry.

As far as t20 is concerned both teams are equal and have been probably since post 2016 t20wc (pakistan was number 1 t20 side between 2016 and 2019), it's just a coincidence that the two teams didn't play each other in t20 until 2021.
In ODIs and tests India are still far far ahead.

Having said that in this post Kohli captaincy era of India they seem to be struggling with the transition in all formats which was evident at the start of the year when they lost to SA. Interestingly even England are struggling in white ball cricket in their transition period post Eoin Morgan so it shows that it's natural and not something to look too much into.

Pakistan sadly seem to only play t20 cricket these days and it feels rare seeing them play tests or odis. Explains why they are so much better in t20 than the other 2 formats - the more you play the better you'll get.

 

[shamaan]

I already said Pakistan bowling is much better than India and Pakistan is a better team than India.

 

[shamaan]

Don't know this however first time i feel Pakistan is not afraid of playing india. The current group will always give tough time

Pakistan has a better team.

 

[Rana]

Maybe we have not?

We need to play them regularly in other places besides Dubai to truly know. This defeat to Sri Lanka has got me questioning, maybe they will lose to anyone defending a score in Dubai?

 

[Monsee]

I think it’s fair to say, Pakistan are finally back to being able to compete with India without getting rolled over just for fun.

The performance by the bowlers yesterday has proved that they are not as nervous as they have been since the 2013 away series win. Since Kohli and Sharma became stalwarts and the emergence of Bumrah, India were just too good for Pakistan. I can say that now, this isn’t quite the case.

Pakistani batting still has its flaws against Indian bowling, maybe this can be addressed.

Kindly add up and share how many games did the two play against each other since 2013?

A one off game a year barely tells you how weak or strong the two teams are...usually a well settled team does better and India was in that position in the few games played between the two recently. Having said that, the two biggest defeats (won by Pak both times) ever between the two teams, did take place in the same period as well.

In short, not sure how valid your question is; also, 2013 might not be a good year marker either because even in 2013 Pakistan thrashed them on their soil in ODIs.

 

[reversehook]

India pakistan matches have never had match fixing proven.

bhai konsay store se chussu lei kr choostay ho, hamain bhi dilwaa do... (corruption toh nawaz/shehbaz/zardari etc ki bhi ajtak nhin saabit hoi) but we all know the deep truth so yeah keeping it back at the sports and ur comment, bas kr de paglay rulaye ga kya...

 

[reversehook]

t20's can easily be won by any side on a given day, its the longer formats which really prove your strength and position... we are still to be tested there... however, like i said before, now it will be fair games with lack of fixing on our side... and even indians know this...

 

[Cric1234]

India bowled poorly - 26 needed off 12 balls, should have been defended a little better.

Bhuvi - the most experienced bowler gave 19 runs.

Many wides. Many misfields.

Thats just a mediocre performance. Has nothing to do with pitch or conditions.

Same as Pakistan should’ve done better against Australia in home conditions Shaheen conceded 3 sixes in a row and Hasan was hit around with ease.

In UAE it’s simply tougher to defend a score Pakistan couldn’t do it on a few occasions they’ve batted first India’s middle order was one of the main reasons for the loss they will need to improve in Australia.

 

[Major]

bhai konsay store se chussu lei kr choostay ho, hamain bhi dilwaa do... (corruption toh nawaz/shehbaz/zardari etc ki bhi ajtak nhin saabit hoi) but we all know the deep truth �� so yeah keeping it back at the sports and ur comment, bas kr de paglay rulaye ga kya...��

You are being immature...

There has never been any fixing proven when both countries are playing against each other.

There is no deep truth. If there is any proof that plz post it here or else no point in such discussions

 

[Major]

t20's can easily be won by any side on a given day, its the longer formats which really prove your strength and position... we are still to be tested there... however, like i said before, now it will be fair games with lack of fixing on our side... and even indians know this...

There has never been fixing in pak vs india. Plz provide proof not baseless allegations

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Maybe we have not?

We need to play them regularly in other places besides Dubai to truly know. This defeat to Sri Lanka has got me questioning, maybe they will lose to anyone defending a score in Dubai?

Every major team has lost defending at Dubai since the World T20 .

 

[Marooned]

Every major team has lost defending at Dubai since the World T20 .

And what about before wt20? What changed?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

And what about before wt20? What changed?

Not sure what changed but it's become a venue with a heavy chasing bias off late - dew or no dew.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Every major team has lost defending at Dubai since the World T20 .

Good excuse.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

India has weakened slightly over the years while Pak has improved massively hence the bridge is very minor in T20 atleast, Test and in ODIs India is still clearly ahead.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Good excuse.

Great argument. I'm sure you were the debating champ in the *aindu school that you attended

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Great argument. I'm sure you were the debating champ in the *aindu school that you attended

Hey, don't vent your frustration on me after yesterday's loss and don't ever try to get personal here. It's a sign of a sore loser. I will say once again it was a good excuse. Go cry in the corner.