How could a Test side with the likes of Joe Root, Ben Stokes & James Anderson fail so miserably?

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For all the furore surrounding pitch condition and questionable third umpire reviews, England's abysmal performance in India can be attributed to their woefully poor batting.

Joe Root's men arrived in Chennai with confidence high having defeated Sri Lanka in a two-Test series, but faced a far sterner test of their quality in Virat Kohli's World No 2 ranked side.

And the visitors got off to a flying start in the first of the four-Test series in Chennai, with Root putting in a masterful display to notch a double century and guide England to victory.

However, what has followed has been nothing short of disastrous.

The hosts responded with a 317-run victory in Chennai before skittling the visitors over by 10 wickets in under two days in the third Test in Ahmedabad. On Saturday, India secured an innings and 25 run victory to wrap up a 3-1 series win.

England leave India having been served a sizeable lesson in what it takes to succeed on the subcontinent, namely that a brittle batting order is of no use on a turning wicket.

Here, Sportsmail looks at the batting statistics that shame England in India.

Axar Patel and Ravichandran Ashwin stole the headlines with their superb partnership tearing through England's batting order, with Jack Leach and Dom Bess paling in comparison.

But in truth, England's spinners weren't afforded the same margin of error given the low totals made by the top order.

After they made 578 in the first Test at Chennai, the last three games have brought England totals of 134, 164, 112, 81, 205 and 135.

Root and Ben Stokes have been responsible for carrying the run-scoring burden for England in recent years, but the greatest contribution in the last three Tests has come from an unlikely source.

The leading runscorer in the last three Tests has been Dan Lawrence, with 131 – and he played in only two of the games.

The Essex batsman's overall total of 131 is hardly remarkable, and his series average further demonstrates England's ineptitude at the crease.

Only Lawrence has averaged over 25 since the first Test. Moeen Ali averaged 24, while everyone else has averaged below 20. Jonny Bairstow and Dom Sibley have averaged under 10.

Lawrence dug in when everyone else around him fell apart in the second innings on Saturday, notching a half-century before England inevitably succumbed to the Indians.

The 23-year-old became just the third England player to make a half-century in these last three defeats. Zak Crawley hit 53 in the third Test, mainly before the spinners came on. And Ben Stokes hit 55 in the first innings of this Test.

Captain Root was expected to carry over his imperious form in Sri Lanka and Chennai through the series. However, the 30-year-old hit a stumbling block at just the wrong time for England.

After making 684 runs at 114 in the first three Tests of the winter, Joe Root made 110 at 18 in the last three.

Moeen Ali played a minor role this series, with Leech and Bess preferred. Ali has scored five centuries since making his Test debut in 2014. No England batsman who has debuted since then has scored more than two centuries.

A good batting innings is built around strong partnerships. When England emerged victorious in India almost a decade ago, partnerships between Sir Alistair Cook, Jonathan Trott and Ian Bell set the foundations for victory on the subcontinent.

England's latest collapse, however, means they have had had 75 consecutive batting partnerships without a stand of 50 or more.

The visitors have struggled to determine a settled top six, and that uncertainty has translated on the scoreboard.

England's top six have averaged 21.91 this series, their lowest average in a multi-Test series since the 21.79 they recorded against Bangladesh in 2016. It's their lowest in a 4+ match series since 1935, and their third lowest ever.

Stokes has been the hero of this England team in the past two years, often masterfully rescuing the side when found in precarious positions. A rescue mission in India, however, proved impossible.


Stokes' batting average in this series, 25.37, is his lowest for a Test series (min two matches) since India visited England in 2018. He's averaged less in only four Test series where he's played at least twice.

England have also faced a selection headache over their wicket keepers, with Jos Buttler, Ben Foakes and Jonny Bairstow all vying for the gloves.

Buttler entered the four-Test series with the lowest Test batting average out of the trio. After Saturday's defeat, he now has the highest.

It does not get any better for Bairstow, who returned to the fold after a spell out to rediscover his form.

The No 3 ended this series with just 28 runs from four innings. That equates to the fourth lowest series total for an England No 3, from a minimum of four innings, and the lowest since 1981.


Bairstow scored three ducks from four innings in India, taking his tally of ducks against the Indians in Test cricket to six. Only Nathan Lyon and Danish Kaneria have more against this opposition, while Shane Warne and Mervyn Dillon have the same total.

The performance of the opening batsmen is integral in setting up the rest of a Test, and England''s openers have been left wanting recently.

In their last three Test series, England's openers have averaged 14.75, 13.85, and 17.26.

With the Ashes series fast approaching, Root and Co will be desperate to arrive Down Under with a settled top order. It's a case of back to the drawing board as all eyes turn to the visit of New Zealand for a two-Test series in June.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...-Joe-Root-fall-embarrassing-defeat-India.html
 
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How could a Test side with the likes of Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Anderson fail so miserably?

Mind boggles!

I understand that spin in not everyone's cuppa but could a side which is regarded as one of the top Test teams in the world fail so miserably?

Some stats to ponder.

==

4 All-out totals under 150 for England in this Test series. The last Test series for England with four or more all-out scores under 150 was back in 1909 against Australia.

0 Number of players with 30 wickets and a century in a four-match Test series before R Ashwin in this series. Ashwin is also just the fifth player to score a century and claim 30-plus wickets in the same Test series. He also became the first Indian to take 30 or more wickets in a Test series twice.

27 Wickets for Axar Patel in this series, the joint-most by an Indian in his debut Test series. Dilip Doshi also claimed 27 wickets during a six-match home series against Australia in 1979.

30 Five-wicket hauls for Ashwin in Test cricket, putting him joint-sixth place in Tests. Ashwin equalled James Anderson in the list of most Test five-fors with the five wickets in England's second innings. Twenty-four of Ashwin's 30 five-fors have come on Indian soil, the second-most by a player, behind Anil Kumble (25).

7 Five-wicket hauls by Indian bowlers in this series, the joint-most for them in a Test series. Ashwin accounted for three of them while Axar registered the other four 5-fers, becoming the first Indian to pick five-fors in each of his first three Test matches. With five wickets apiece in the second innings, Ashwin and Axar became only the sixth Indian pair to register five-fors in the same Test innings - and the first one since 1981.

3 All-time instances of century partnerships for both the seventh and eighth wickets in the same innings. Washington Sundar's century stands with Rishabh Pant and Axar took India into an elite list that features Australia (Sydney 2008) and England (Sydney 2011).

8 Player-of-the-Series awards for Ashwin in Test cricket. Only Muttiah Muralitharan (11) and Jacques Kallis (9) have more series awards than Ashwin in this format. England is the sixth opposition against which Ashwin has won a Player-of-the-Series award inn Test cricket after West Indies, New Zealand, Australia, Sri Lanka, and South Africa.

0 Previous instances of India winning three matches in a Test series after going 0-1 down. India had previously won five series coming from behind in Test cricket, all of them ending with a scoreline of 2-1.
 
They played really well. Root scored a terrific double hundred, Anderson was pure class throughout the series and Stokes didn’t get a big innings batted played well in both departments.

Unfortunately for them, they were up against the greatest Asian Test team of all time in their own conditions, and it was too much for them to overcome.
 
This is like saying how could a side with Ashwin, Jadeja and Kohli do miserably in England...
 
Eng last 7 innings in India when the ball was turning,

204
135
112
81
134
164
178


There was some very good performance here and there, but Eng batting could not do well against some great spin bowling on turning tracks. That defined this series.

Pitch had plenty of turn-in SL as well, but there is a difference between SL and Ind bowling units. That was the key difference. I am confident that the Indian batting unit will do poorly against Indian spinners on the same tracks. Ashwin and Axar did not give any freebies and were relentless.
 
Best overseas batsman on rank turners in last 6 years:-

1. Steve Smith
2. AB de Villiers

Joe Root and Kane Williamson have failed every time they played on rank turners in India vs Ashwin and Jadeja/Axar.
 
Mind boggles!

I understand that spin in not everyone's cuppa but could a side which is regarded as one of the top Test teams in the world fail so miserably?

Some stats to ponder.

Pretty straightforward.

1. None of these guys play spin well on turning tracks except Root. Or, like, at all. I would go as far as to say that batting standards in this regard are at an all-time low in England.

2. England picked the wrong side in the last two matches.

But mostly because....

3. India played better.
 
It is difficult to beat top 4 sides in their own backyards. Even when they play each other, it us usually the home team winning. India beating Australia was phenomenal precisely for that reason. England beat lesser teams like SA and SL away. They have lost to NZ and ,now, India away and I fully expect them to lose 4-0 or even 5-0 in the coming Ashes.
 
Inexperienced line up for these conditions. Root is the only quality bat in the line up to counter the spin. Rest need a lot more exposure. Stokes is a good batsman. But he was up against his worst nemesis Ashwin who has dismissed him 11 times. Anderson has already exceeded the expectations here. He actually bowled quiet good.
 
This is like saying how could a side with Ashwin, Jadeja and Kohli do miserably in England...

+1

India batting was poor in Eng against some very good bowling in those conditions. Ind lost there mainly due to their batting. The same happened here. Kohli or Root won't make difference if others don't score.
 
They won a game and theoretically had a chance to level the series even in the last test. For these reasons, I won't call it a massive failure.
 
They won a game and theoretically had a chance to level the series even in the last test. For these reasons, I won't call it a massive failure.

True, not many teams have won tests in India in recent years. Also, Eng was in the game in other tests also. It was not like they were out of the game in all tests. A better selection and better spinners would have challenged India even more.
 
They lost to a team who is better than them in these conditions. It's not a surprise. Especially when England are not playing their best 11 by rotating every game.
 
Pretty straightforward.

1. None of these guys play spin well on turning tracks except Root. Or, like, at all. I would go as far as to say that batting standards in this regard are at an all-time low in England.

2. England picked the wrong side in the last two matches.

But mostly because....

3. India played better.

Root is great but has he ever played a crucial knock on a turner against a quality spin attack?

In all my years of watching cricket, Root has never once clicked against India when the pitch had something for the spinners.

He looks like a million bucks and then gets out.
 
Root is great but has he ever played a crucial knock on a turner against a quality spin attack?

In all my years of watching cricket, Root has never once clicked against India when the pitch had something for the spinners.

He looks like a million bucks and then gets out.

Best overseas batsman on rank turners in last 6 years:-

1. Steve Smith
2. AB de Villiers
 
The answer is simple. I have been following test cricket only recently whenever Ind toured Aus last time 2018.

Test cricket is mostly about home track domination. A lot of the series, you can already predict the scoreline months or even years ahead.
It's really all about prestige, teams will do anything so they can boast about dominating the other team at home.
 
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The answer is simple. I have been following test cricket only recently whenever Ind toured Aus last time 2018.

Test cricket is mostly about home track domination. A lot of the series, you can already predict the scoreline months or even years ahead.
It's really all about prestige, teams will do anything so they can boast about dominating the other team at home.

.

Yet India won in Australia, England won in Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh lost at home to West Indies.

All this in the last few months. :)
 
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True, not many teams have won tests in India in recent years. Also, Eng was in the game in other tests also. It was not like they were out of the game in all tests. A better selection and better spinners would have challenged India even more.

Agree. I did not expect England to win a test by that margin. As an Indian fan, the Chennai loss would hurt.
 
Root is great but has he ever played a crucial knock on a turner against a quality spin attack?

In all my years of watching cricket, Root has never once clicked against India when the pitch had something for the spinners.

He looks like a million bucks and then gets out.

This.

Never got the feeling Root is comfortable against Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar when the ball is spinning.

Crawley, Stokes, Lawrence, Foakes had atleast 1 innings of 40+ on a turning track. Root barely crossed 30 in the last 3 tests when the ball was spinning.
 
India is not the world's number one side without reason. It is one thing to prepare mindfields, it is another thing to have world class spinners ie Ashwin, Axar along with competent pacers and an attacking team management to exploit it.

England have received a huge reality check that they are not any where near as good as they felt they were. They have feasted off some lower ranked teams and scoring runs against the likes of Yasir Shah is not an extraordinary achievement
 
India is not the world's number one side without reason. It is one thing to prepare mindfields, it is another thing to have world class spinners ie Ashwin, Axar along with competent pacers and an attacking team management to exploit it.

England have received a huge reality check that they are not any where near as good as they felt they were. They have feasted off some lower ranked teams and scoring runs against the likes of Yasir Shah is not an extraordinary achievement

I am a bit out of touch with English cricket. Their bowling is fixable as they have enough resources at their disposal. Batting is the problem. First time i see this top order. They have a lot of room for improvement. Not remotely close to the stature of Alistair cook, Andrew Strauss.
 
This is a test side that can almost never produce a batsman who averages 50+, or a bowler who averages 25-.

An undeserved member of the Big 3.
 
England are champions at home. But cannot remember the last time they beat Australia in Australia, they even lost to NZ in NZ. They have lost to Pakistan in the UAE twice and have lost the last two series against India in India.

It really begs the question why are they ranked in the top three?
 
England are champions at home. But cannot remember the last time they beat Australia in Australia, they even lost to NZ in NZ. They have lost to Pakistan in the UAE twice and have lost the last two series against India in India.

It really begs the question why are they ranked in the top three?

Because they have done better than all teams except two teams ahead of them.
 
England are champions at home. But cannot remember the last time they beat Australia in Australia, they even lost to NZ in NZ. They have lost to Pakistan in the UAE twice and have lost the last two series against India in India.

It really begs the question why are they ranked in the top three?

Rankings are based on the last 4 years. Not directly based on W/L, but it is a decent shortcut to see how well teams have done.

Eng.jpg


There is a decline after the top 4. Aus has not really set the world on fire when playing away in the last 4 years. So Eng being ranked 3 shouldn't be a surprise.
 
England are champions at home. But cannot remember the last time they beat Australia in Australia, they even lost to NZ in NZ. They have lost to Pakistan in the UAE twice and have lost the last two series against India in India.

It really begs the question why are they ranked in the top three?

They are 4th not 3rd.
 
Here is away W/L in the last 4 years,

away.jpg

Eng is near the top here as well. There is no issue with Eng being ranked 3-4 right now. Just because they lost 1-3 in India, it does not make them a poor team.
 
It was a tough series for England as opposed to an entirely unmitigated disaster. There have been catastrophic England tours in the past — many of which I have followed — and this was not in that category.

Not many touring sides are able to win even one Test in India, let alone a series, as the record books demonstrate. England won the opening Test and won it handsomely, with an excellent team performance led by Joe Root.

Even though they went on to lose the next three Tests, and several of the individual performances were nothing short of an abomination — Bairstow, Archer — there are quite a few positives to take home for England.

Firstly, the English team’s bowling, fielding and captaincy restricted many of the Indian batters to a notably lower level than their career batting averages. So much so that if England had batted better even in just one of the innings within the latter three Tests, they would have been in with a genuine chance of at least drawing the series. England undoubtedly have the talent, the technology and the brainpower to formulate plans that will bowl out good sides.

Next, in terms of individual players who contributed positively for England: Anderson all the way through. Stokes in bursts. Buttler in the first game. Lawrence in the last. Foakes when he took the gloves. Root’s big hundred.

And, possibly best of all, the unbelievably resilient character Jack Leach has clearly established himself as the number one English spinner. Leach did very well for an overseas Test match spin bowler in India, returning impressive figures and evidencing the required fitness levels throughout a long series where he had a considerable workload. He also demonstrated incredible mental strength to come roaring back from his bruising battle with young Pant in the first match. A lesser man than Jack would have crumbled in the touring bubble. But he engaged with the support offered by his captain, he fought hard and he defeated his inner demons. Overall, he has proven himself as a Test-class cricketer.

But, in the end, the sheer excellence of the Rohit-Kohli-Pant-Ashwin-Axar backbone to this Indian team overpowered England, and India were just too good in the series for them. It was not the pitches, it was not bad luck — England were just beaten, well beaten, by a superior cricketing side.
 
It was a tough series for England as opposed to an entirely unmitigated disaster. There have been catastrophic England tours in the past — many of which I have followed — and this was not in that category.

Not many touring sides are able to win even one Test in India, let alone a series, as the record books demonstrate. England won the opening Test and won it handsomely, with an excellent team performance led by Joe Root.

Even though they went on to lose the next three Tests, and several of the individual performances were nothing short of an abomination — Bairstow, Archer — there are quite a few positives to take home for England.

Firstly, the English team’s bowling, fielding and captaincy restricted many of the Indian batters to a notably lower level than their career batting averages. So much so that if England had batted better even in just one of the innings within the latter three Tests, they would have been in with a genuine chance of at least drawing the series. England undoubtedly have the talent, the technology and the brainpower to formulate plans that will bowl out good sides.

Next, in terms of individual players who contributed positively for England: Anderson all the way through. Stokes in bursts. Buttler in the first game. Lawrence in the last. Foakes when he took the gloves. Root’s big hundred.

And, possibly best of all, the unbelievably resilient character Jack Leach has clearly established himself as the number one English spinner. Leach did very well for an overseas Test match spin bowler in India, returning impressive figures and evidencing the required fitness levels throughout a long series where he had a considerable workload. He also demonstrated incredible mental strength to come roaring back from his bruising battle with young Pant in the first match. A lesser man than Jack would have crumbled in the touring bubble. But he engaged with the support offered by his captain, he fought hard and he defeated his inner demons. Overall, he has proven himself as a Test-class cricketer.

But, in the end, the sheer excellence of the Rohit-Kohli-Pant-Ashwin-Axar backbone to this Indian team overpowered England, and India were just too good in the series for them. It was not the pitches, it was not bad luck — England were just beaten, well beaten, by a superior cricketing side.

In the last 8 years, there have been only 2 tests wins by visiting teams in India. One of them come in the last series by Eng.

Eng_ind.jpg

It was great Eng side in 2012 which won 2 tests before this, but the last 8 years is a very long time and only two test wins came for visiting sides. It was far from a disaster tour.
 
They played really well. Root scored a terrific double hundred, Anderson was pure class throughout the series and Stokes didn’t get a big innings batted played well in both departments.

Unfortunately for them, they were up against the greatest Asian Test team of all time in their own conditions, and it was too much for them to overcome.

How many threads have you copied and posted same rubbish. England should be proud they were patheric in last 3 tests.

You proclaim quality cricket was played.

Yet the standard england produced was same as when they toured in 2012 and 2015 to UAE which you say was played with poor quality.

Hypocrytical and laughable to say the least.
 
In the last 8 years, there have been only 2 tests wins by visiting teams in India. One of them come in the last series by Eng.

View attachment 107828

It was great Eng side in 2012 which won 2 tests before this, but the last 8 years is a very long time and only two test wins came for visiting sides. It was far from a disaster tour.

Great england side that got slapped 3-0 in UAE but managed to win in india.
 
Chopping and changing badly hindered their rythem, specially after such a dominant display in the first test, had they fielded their best 11 in most of the tests then I reckon they had a great chance of at least drawing.

Flip side india did come back very strong and played well.
 
Great england side that got slapped 3-0 in UAE but managed to win in india.

That series was not as one-sided as the score line suggests. That's what I recall. That eng side was competitive in most conditions. The same side won in Aus as well. No need to take offense with calling them a great side. You can call them a good side if it helps.

A great/good side does not mean they will win all series.
 
All this hype about england performing in asia. They have beaten a poor SL team twice.

When they have played top quality spin in UAE and india in last 4 series played they have looked clueless.
 
That series was not as one-sided as the score line suggests. That's what I recall. That eng side was competitive in most conditions. The same side won in Aus as well. No need to take offense with calling them a great side. You can call them a good side if it helps.

A great/good side does not mean they will win all series.

England won ashes in 2005 turned up to pakistan and lost.

England number 1 team in world in 2012 turned up to UAE and lost.

England doing well 2015 turned up to UAE and lost.

England were a good side, they pretty much turned to play pakistan full of confidence with all england and india fans thinking it would be easy win for england.

England dont have enough players in there playing 11s to be able to beat india or pakistan over a long series in these conditions.
 
England won ashes in 2005 turned up to pakistan and lost.

England number 1 team in world in 2012 turned up to UAE and lost.

England doing well 2015 turned up to UAE and lost.

England were a good side, they pretty much turned to play pakistan full of confidence with all england and india fans thinking it would be easy win for england.

England dont have enough players in there playing 11s to be able to beat india or pakistan over a long series in these conditions.

Being number 1 or winning Ashes has no relevance to winning in Asia for Eng.

You should see Eng performance in Asia and compare it with Aus/NZ/SA performance in Asia. Eng has not been hopeless. Even last Ind-Eng series, they were in the game despite having inexperienced spinners.

No one is claiming that Eng is going to win all series in Asia. They lack a good spin attack at this moment to do so.
 
Being number 1 or winning Ashes has no relevance to winning in Asia for Eng.

You should see Eng performance in Asia and compare it with Aus/NZ/SA performance in Asia. Eng has not been hopeless. Even last Ind-Eng series, they were in the game despite having inexperienced spinners.

No one is claiming that Eng is going to win all series in Asia. They lack a good spin attack at this moment to do so.

The last time england beat pakistan away was because they had good players of spin in Atherton, hussain and thorpe. They put runs on board. Also they had white and gough who were good at reverse swing.

Thats why in 2000/01 they beat pakistan and SL away.

Add to that pakistans worst ever skipper moin khan was in charge who stupidly banked on spin winning us tests when we had good fast bowlers. I will never forgive or forget that shameful loss in karachi.

Last time england won in india they had players like KP and cook etc. Who played spin plus panser and swann with the ball.

Apart from root now whose really going to score big runs for england in india or uae or pakistan?

India are near impossible to beat at home. Pakistan you need to put big runs up and then have a chance as batting might fold under pressure.

Again this highlights my point england arent that great in Asia.
 
Chopping and changing badly hindered their rythem, specially after such a dominant display in the first test, had they fielded their best 11 in most of the tests then I reckon they had a great chance of at least drawing.

Flip side india did come back very strong and played well.


I reckon mental disintegration inside the bio bubble for so long played a role. After the third test loss I think they just wanted to get home to the wives, and I don’t blame them.
 
I reckon mental disintegration inside the bio bubble for so long played a role. After the third test loss I think they just wanted to get home to the wives, and I don’t blame them.

Yes forgot about that, anyways theirs a full summer of quality cricket and England must set their sights of beating India this summer and then ultimately beat Australia down under to rightfully claim the best Test team in the world as well as one day world champions and hopefully t20 world champions.
 
I enjoyed this series. I remember SA touring India last time and that was shambolic, especially the last two tests..

India won by an innings and 137 runs
India 601/5d (156.3 overs)
SA 275 (105.4 overs) and 189 (67.2 overs) (f/o)

India won by an innings and 202 runs
India 497/9d (116.3 overs)
South Africa 162 (56.2 overs) and 133 (48 overs) (f/o)

Umesh Yadav destroyed them and our batsmen were making double centuries for fun.

Rabada, their best bowler, averaged 40+. Maharaj 85+.

In contrast, England won a game and made us work really hard for 2 wins.
 
I enjoyed this series. I remember SA touring India last time and that was shambolic, especially the last two tests..

India won by an innings and 137 runs
India 601/5d (156.3 overs)
SA 275 (105.4 overs) and 189 (67.2 overs) (f/o)

India won by an innings and 202 runs
India 497/9d (116.3 overs)
South Africa 162 (56.2 overs) and 133 (48 overs) (f/o)

Umesh Yadav destroyed them and our batsmen were making double centuries for fun.

Rabada, their best bowler, averaged 40+. Maharaj 85+.

In contrast, England won a game and made us work really hard for 2 wins.

True. England smashed SL in SL which the likes of SA/OZ/NZ have not done and they have done it twice and they won a test in India which is really hard to do. An England tour of Pakistan would be very interesting. They are clearly the best visiting side in Asian conditions and I believe the best side in Asian conditions after India. I expect them to beat Pakistan 1-0 in a 2 match series.
 
True. England smashed SL in SL which the likes of SA/OZ/NZ have not done and they have done it twice and they won a test in India which is really hard to do. An England tour of Pakistan would be very interesting. They are clearly the best visiting side in Asian conditions and I believe the best side in Asian conditions after India. I expect them to beat Pakistan 1-0 in a 2 match series.

:))) england team which is 7-0 for last 3 tours and toured with stronger sides than this.
 
This is a test side that can almost never produce a batsman who averages 50+, or a bowler who averages 25-.

An undeserved member of the Big 3.

Bar kohli i don't really see any outstanding quality in the Indian top order, more than likely rohit and pant in England could be walking wickets.
 
The reason is simple. They played second spinners that went at 4 RPO(moeen and bess). That essentially lost some games for them
 
Here is away W/L in the last 4 years,

View attachment 107826

Eng is near the top here as well. There is no issue with Eng being ranked 3-4 right now. Just because they lost 1-3 in India, it does not make them a poor team.

Great stats Buffet. This also shows why NZ are undeserving in the top (definitely undeserving to be in the WTC final over England). They played mostly at home over the 4 years period (21 out of 27 matches which is 75%), their away game is poor. Also, NZ played far lesser matches than other 3 in the top and hence the sample size is smaller to show consistency of W/L over a longer span. Aus is on decline as the away record shows but they have also played more away games than home.

Personally, I feel there is India, Eng, Aus - a gulf - then the rest. I would have loved to see India -> Eng WTC final.
 
I think the series was much closer than the scoreline suggests. It could have been easily 3-1 in favor of England had they seized opportunities in last 2 tests . So I wundt say they failed badly
 
1. India
2. Australia
3. England/New Zealand
4. New Zealand/England

This will be my ranking.
 
England captain Joe Root has promised not to brush over any hard questions raised by a thumping series defeat in India and reckons his side would be "stupid" not to learn from the chastening experience.

A home win had always been the likeliest result for India, who have not lost as hosts since Root's debut tour nine years ago.

Yet the individual margins told a more eye-watering tale than the overall 3-1 scoreline.

After starting in Chennai with a big win of their own, England have been put away by 317 runs, 10 wickets and, on Saturday, by an innings and 25 runs.

Spinners Ravichandran Ashwin and Axar Patel have dominated England to the tune of 59 wickets at an average of 12.83 and Root wants his side to confront their shortcomings and build on them.

"The guys have to embrace what's happened. They have to understand it and be realistic," he said.

"We would be stupid to come away from this trip and say, 'oh, it's India - extreme conditions, the ball was spinning and skidding on, it was impossible to bat'.

"That would be the wrong attitude. We need to come away from here and say, 'you know what, there are lots of things that we can get better at'.

"Yes, India have world-class spinners and high performers, at home in particular, but we can be better."

When Root and head coach Chris Silverwood sit down to debrief on the series, there are couple of areas that they need to address.

The first is their rest and rotation policy, an idea borne out of the unforgiving schedule and the unique challenges of travelling in restrictive bio-secure bubbles.

The Test side was clearly compromised, in deference to Eoin Morgan's limited-overs group, with the likes of Jos Buttler, Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow and Mark Wood missing parts of the series.

"We've said all along that making sure that players are looked after is the priority and that their welfare and well-being is paramount. We've got to follow that through," reasoned Root.

"I think it's important we learn lessons for next time around, but it was done with the best interests of the England team and the three formats. It's not an ideal, perfect scenario.

"As a captain, you want all your players available for selection as often as possible and that's not been the case on this tour.

"But we've got to get past the stage of playing people until they fall over. Yes, we might not get it right all the time to start with, but we need to move forward and look for a better way and hopefully we find that better way quickly."

Also on the agenda will be team selection, having left themselves hamstrung with the wrong attack in each of the last two games.

"I think it's easy to look at selection in hindsight at the back end of a series when things haven't gone your way. It's obvious these things will be looked at," said Root.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/joe...tion-policy-bairstow-moeen-buttler/2021-03-07
 
Bar kohli i don't really see any outstanding quality in the Indian top order, more than likely rohit and pant in England could be walking wickets.

Pant has already scored a 114 in his very first tour of England
 
Two simple reasons.

1. They did not have a quality spinner to partner with Leach.
2. They could not outbat India in those conditions.
 
Also fourth test, India 140-6 England had a great chance, but ultimately the wrong team selection cost them .
 
Simple fact that most of these Test cricketers were not even interested. IPL is coming up and they need to be fresh for it.
 
Simple fact that most of these Test cricketers were not even interested. IPL is coming up and they need to be fresh for it.

"Most of these test cricketers....:murali" :))

9 of the 11 English players that featured in the last Test don't even have an IPL contract. :yk
 
Interesting view point:

Continuity is the essence of winning combinations. The personnel manning the various levers of a team act in cohesion with minimal or no changes in its composition.

And England made all the wrong moves after its comprehensive victory over India in the first Test.

The spectacular win at Chepauk, arriving after England’s 2-0 series triumph over Sri Lanka, was shaped by the brilliance of Joe Root and a vicious burst by the Sultan of Swing, James Anderson.

At that point, England held the psychological edge. And it had Anderson to put seeds of doubts in the minds of the Indian batsmen.

However, the English think tank stunned everyone by resting Anderson for the second Test. The side had shot itself on the foot.

England’s policy of rotational 'bubble' made little sense since playing Test cricket has to be the ultimate honour.

Take for instance the case of off-spinner Dom Bess. He was among wickets in the first Test despite lacking consistency in length.

Bess was discarded for the second Test, although his replacement, Mooen Ali was going to play only one Test after which he would be flying back home as part of the bizarre 'rotational bubble'.

Now, Moeen did not have a bad Test. He picked up eight wickets although he went for plenty and made some attacking runs.

Then, he took the flight back. Would it not have made greater sense for England to persist with Bess - despite his inconsistency he has the makings of a fine spinner - instill in him the belief and make good use of him as his confidence grows.

Spinners are confidence bowlers. The greater the faith the captain shows in them, the better the results.

And when Bess was finally recalled for the fourth Test, he appeared a mental wreck, all his belief appeared to have ebbed away.

Or take the case of Jonny Bairstow. Considered among the better players of spin in this English side, he batted well in Sri Lanka. Then, off the bubble, he travelled to England.

When he rejoined the team for the last two Tests, Bairstow produced three zeros in four innings.

Despite Root’s class, England was largely clueless against spin. They could not pick the deliveries from hand, played off the pitch and were soon walking back.

When you are not able to pick the turn or the extent of it, you play for no turn and protect your stumps. Instead, the English batsmen departed to straight deliveries.

Only someone like Dan Lawrence, he used his feet and the depth of the crease, showed promise.

Otherwise, it was an opportunity missed for England.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...dan-lawrence-cricket-news/article34022150.ece
 
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England all-rounder Ben Stokes has revealed the dramatic weight loss suffered by himself and his teammates during the fourth and final Test against India in Ahmedabad. Stokes has said that playing in the 41 degree heat had made things more taxing in the series finale.

Notably, in the 4th Test, India scored 365 runs in reply to England's first innings total of 205. Later, the visitors could not overcome the 160-run deficit and lost the match by an innings and 25 runs and the series by a 3-1 margin.

"Players are totally committed to England and I think that was emphasised last week when a few of us went down with illness that made operating in 41 degree heat particularly taxing," Stokes said exclusively to Mirror Sport.

"I lost 5kg in a week, Dom Sibley 4kg and Jimmy Anderson 3kg among others. Jack Leach was ducking off the field in between bowling spells and spending more time than is ideal in the toilet.

"This is in no way an excuse, because everyone was ready to play, and India and Rishabh Pant especially produced a terrific performance, but I take off my hat to the effort that was put in by players who gave everything they had to try and win for England," Ben Stokes added.

Further, Stokes, who scored a half-century and took 4 wickets in the 4th Test, warned the youngsters in his team against listening to the outside criticism. He backed them and reckoned that they "definitely" are good at playing Test cricket in subcontinent conditions.

“Pundits have a job to do and that's fine,” said Stokes. “But their responsibility isn't to make us better players and a better team. That is our job and that is what we have to focus on.

“The opinions that really matter are those of your captain, your coaches and your team-mates who are trying to make the team and you as a player as good as you can be.

“For a lot of guys this was their first tour of India and it has been a steep learning curve, but that is part and parcel of being a cricketer at this level. The next test is how you react to those moments.

“I wouldn't want any player, especially a young lad like Ollie Pope, Zak Crawley or Dom Sibley, leaving this tour and thinking they are not good enough to be here. They most definitely are.

“I have been through times like this in my career and your confidence can take a knock from a tour like this, but once you assess where you need to get better you take action and work on it. “You have to use the disappointment in the best way you can to motivate you to improve," Ben Stokes stated.

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...-india-vs-england-4th-test-1777097-2021-03-09
 
This is like saying how could a side with Ashwin, Jadeja and Kohli do miserably in England...

Or how could a side with Kohli, Pujara, Pant, Bumrah, Ashwin, Shami and Ishant do miserably in New Zealand? :inti
 
Yeah and this is the first time you are saying this here. :inti

One of the major reasons why India won the test series in Australia which is touted as our greatest away test win ever was the inclusion of Pant & Gill, both of whom made massive impacts with bat. Gill gave consistent starts and played a brilliant knock to setup the Brisbane chase while Pant played absolutely fearless game changing knocks.

This is the reason why everyone was backing Pant and Gill and asking for their inclusion which also meant the exclusion of Shaw and Saha. It was a completely top notch decision and fans whoever were backing Gill and Pant and asking for exclusion of Shaw and Saha at the start of Australia series deserve a lot of appreciation and respect for doing so.

All said and done, the result is there for everyone to see in what is now regarded as our greatest ever overseas test win. This should explain your question.

Thanks!
 
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England misread the pitches in the last 2 tests completely. Their rotation policy was unnecessary considering their next big test series is in August. Moeen only got one test. England did not even consider debuting Matt Parkinson and Amar virdi who are miles better than bess.
The tried to revive bairstow's test Career instead of giving

It should be mentioned that england is the only sena team that has won in sri lanka and that to, comfortably. They were the only team with any chance to win in india

Axar and ashwin are incredible bowlers and are very tricky to face in Indian conditions. Rohit sharma and rishabh pant took the game away from England on many occasions.

This is a very young and inexperienced england side . It was the first time in Asia for most of the batsmen. They will be much better next time they tour india.
 
It will be interesting to see British media's reaction when India beat Eng in Eng this summer :)
 
Well....they never really played together. As I posted before, how often did Root, Stokes, Jimmy, Broad, Archer, Ali, Leach....the best team that could have played, play together? The answer is never and that is a huge problem. India were playing against various B level players.
 
Well....they never really played together. As I posted before, how often did Root, Stokes, Jimmy, Broad, Archer, Ali, Leach....the best team that could have played, play together? The answer is never and that is a huge problem. India were playing against various B level players.

Yes, Englands selection was ridiculous.

But that doesn't change the fact that English batsmen were completely clueless against axar and ashwin
 
It will be interesting to see British media's reaction when India beat Eng in Eng this summer :)

Extremely slim chance of a visiting team winning a series having 5 tests against a good team.

It will take some really good cricket and batting. India doing it in Aus was due to batting able to score runs in Aus. I am not sure lower order can keep bailing them out in Eng where the ball moves sideways. Just like Eng had problems in India due to spin, India will have problem in Eng due to swing.
 
England misread the pitches in the last 2 tests completely. Their rotation policy was unnecessary considering their next big test series is in August. Moeen only got one test. England did not even consider debuting Matt Parkinson and Amar virdi who are miles better than bess.
The tried to revive bairstow's test Career instead of giving

It should be mentioned that england is the only sena team that has won in sri lanka and that to, comfortably. They were the only team with any chance to win in india

Axar and ashwin are incredible bowlers and are very tricky to face in Indian conditions. Rohit sharma and rishabh pant took the game away from England on many occasions.

This is a very young and inexperienced england side . It was the first time in Asia for most of the batsmen. They will be much better next time they tour india.

What was frustrating to me was seeing batter after batter playing down the wrong line and being bowled or lbw to arm balls. They don’t seem to realise, as their forefathers did, that if you can’t pick the ball from the hand you get forward, bat and pad together and protect your stumps. That’s what the Three Gs did, what Atherton and Thorpe did, what Cook and Pietersen and Bell did. Clearly there is a problem with pitches and coaching in the modern CC.
 
Well....they never really played together. As I posted before, how often did Root, Stokes, Jimmy, Broad, Archer, Ali, Leach....the best team that could have played, play together? The answer is never and that is a huge problem. India were playing against various B level players.

Yes and no. Anderson was effective but he is 38. Moeen should have played more, but Broad was ineffective. Archer gives his skipper one fast spell then bowls slower than Anderson for the rest of the match. He’s an ODI bowler. I would have picked Wood and Stone who will run in hard all day.
 
What was frustrating to me was seeing batter after batter playing down the wrong line and being bowled or lbw to arm balls. They don’t seem to realise, as their forefathers did, that if you can’t pick the ball from the hand you get forward, bat and pad together and protect your stumps. That’s what the Three Gs did, what Atherton and Thorpe did, what Cook and Pietersen and Bell did. Clearly there is a problem with pitches and coaching in the modern CC.

The old approach of bat and pad together against spin won't work in the modern DRS era. It's the single biggest transformation in test cricket over the last 15 years.

Cook and Pietersen carved out the template for English batsmen to perform in the subcontinent. However, other than Root, none of the players in the current England team come anywhere close to those two in terms of ability and talent.

The County Championship is an obvious impediment given how the ECB have scheduled it in April, May, and September. No one learns how to play spin under those conditions.
 
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Yes and no. Anderson was effective but he is 38. Moeen should have played more, but Broad was ineffective. Archer gives his skipper one fast spell then bowls slower than Anderson for the rest of the match. He’s an ODI bowler. I would have picked Wood and Stone who will run in hard all day.

Those are England's best players and should have played together at least once in a side. They did not. Regardless of what their performances may have been, the fact that the ECB did not even factor in playing their best side is a problem and in my opinion, quite unprofessional.

India's selection and strategies were far superior.
 
How much difference changing the coach and captain makes. But then they are some in Pakistan who will keep creating arguments to eternally stick with Babar because there is just no other option and because he is Pakistan's best batsman. Terrible arguments.
 
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