How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

[Amjid Javed]

If only those 90's Pak players had to deal with the current BCCI, they would have been paraded on donkeys with garland of chappals around their necks and paraded around the whole country. Same with Jadeja and Azharuddin.

Every player who has cheated in any shape or form should have in past or future be right punished.

 

[Hitman]

Every player who has cheated in any shape or form should have in past or future be right punished.

Unfortunately, your plastic heroes didn't pay the price.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Are we discussing cheating incidents here !!!???

 

[Hitman]

Unfortunately, your plastic heroes didn't pay the price.

LOL, what exactly does that prove? By the way, is it international cricket? Regardless, what does your link say?

 

[Amjid Javed]

For those Indian fans

Unfortunately, your plastic heroes didn't pay the price.

Let's deal with reality, you think only players that mentioned were involved? We all know how bad Cricket in subcontinent was in 80s, 90s.

It always involved Indian bookmakers as one of beneficiary's

 

[BouncerGuy]

Are we discussing cheating incidents here !!!???

Again... Why???

 

[mominsaigol]

My issue with this thread is putting Bumrah as top 1.

He isn't anywhere close. Not even kn bootlicking distance of mcgrath.

However he is still the top bowler of this era and the greatest all format bowler(Odi + test + t20) of all time. Since just like bradman, The no 1 all format bowlers vs the no 2 all format bowlers is night and day .

Bumrah is 200x > whoever no 2 is.

We have no clue how wasim, Mcgrath etc would have performed in t20 etc etc.

But Bumrah isn't close to wasim. He's relatively to wasim as a new ball bowler. Absolutely rubbish with the old ball since Travis head has owned him 3x in a row now with the old ball while bumrah has owned Travis 2x with the new ball.

 

[DTrump]

He is the most complete bowler the game has ever seen. Wasim is the closest comparison. Waqar is not in the same ballpark.

He still needs to get 300 test wickets to be included in GOAT conversations. A lot can happen between now and then. Still, there Should be no problem in acknowleding and celebrating his greatness. We have never seen a bowler like this ever.

 

[Hitman]

For those Indian fans

Let's deal with reality, you think only players that mentioned were involved? We all know how bad Cricket in subcontinent was in 80s, 90s.

It always involved Indian bookmakers as one of beneficiary's

Facts >> Conspiracy Theories.

 

[DTrump]

Bumrah: 194 wickets at an average of 19.53

Overs (1-20): 57 wickets @ 22
Overs (21-60): 76 wickets @ 20.4
Overs (61-80): 26 wickets @ 16.8
Overs (81 and beyond): 35 wickets @ 15

To argue that he is not a old ball bowler is the most laughable thing ever.

There is no simply flaw in this guy. If you want to bury your head in the sand, nobody can stop you

 

[Bhaijaan]

Unreal stuff. Actually today he didn't even bowl at full tilt. Mostly early 130s and mid 135s. He just hit the length perfectly.

It’s a great sign if Bumrah is that effective even in 130s

Also negates the point that he is not good when he bowls fast yorkers with that awkward action.

If Bumrah is being dominant bowling 130 kph line length , tough days lie ahead for haters

 

[RexRex]

Bumrah: 194 wickets at an average of 19.53

Overs (1-20): 57 wickets @ 22
Overs (21-60): 76 wickets @ 20.4
Overs (61-80): 26 wickets @ 16.8
Overs (81 and beyond): 35 wickets @ 15

Where do you get the over-by-over breakdown of a bowler ? I don't see it on cricinfo.

 

[Fanboy375]

Then the zimbabwe a certified minnow toured Pakistan and beat them in their own backyard. So did SL (who were minnows at test leve then). Why couldn't the bowling greats produce their magic against a minnow side?

SL was a weak team but not a minnow.From 1988 to 1993 they have w/l ratio 0.222 and Ban from 2020 to 2024 has 0.409.But difference is that SL draw more match than they lose and that is not true for current Ban team.Also Ban lost 5 match by innings defeat but SL lost 2 match for innings defeat.

 

[Fanboy375]

Bowlers win matches. How many tests were won by them? I know for a fact a Weak Indian side toured Pakistan in the 1989 tour and drew all 4 tests. Why couldn't you produce a single result unless you suggest Manjrekar is some next level ATG.

Ind batting was their strength during that time.They were not good team but they can hold themself with batting.From 1987 to 1990 Ind scored 18 times 300+ runs where WI scored 16 times and Eng scored 22 times

 

[Buffet]

To be fair, Border is always over the top with his praise.

He has also said, "If I ever get a chance to be reborn as a cricketer, I would want to be Wasim" in an interview.

Does that mean Wasim is the greatest cricketer of all time in his eyes?

How right Greg Chappel was about Bumrah standing between Aus and BGT? Bumrah in this series so far 22 wickets at Avg of 10. One of the best series anyone has had aginst the top team in their den. He has been the difference otherwise India team is actually poor and Aus would have taken 2-0 lead despite third test having rain.

-------------------------------------

No, it means he admires Wasim more than others. I admired Wasim more than others in that generation despite knowing that McGrath was a better bowler. I watched most Wasim's game and not most McGrath's game. You can admire any player more than others, many have favoutire players who are not even greats of the game.

But he is directly saying that there is not much between Marshall and Bumrah , so that's about his opinion on Bumrah's stature in history. It's very high praise coming from some one who faced Marshall and think Marshall was the best in history.

If you think Border's opinion is hyperbole and shouldn't be taken seriously, here is another Aus legend gave his views on Bumrah when he had played only 30 tests and that was before this ongoing series,

-----------------------------------------

"Dennis Lillee and Andy Roberts were the best fast bowlers I faced. Bumrah combined the best of both" - Greg Chappel



Lillee was a warrior, combining raw aggression with psychological prowess. I opposed him many times in domestic cricket and watched him from close quarters against the best batsmen of his era. His ability to make it hard for batsmen to score runs with his probing line and length, allied to his guile and determination, made him the champion that he was.

Bumrah, though less overtly combative, channels Lillee’s ability to unsettle batsmen. His deadly yorkers and disconcerting bounce – especially with his unorthodox release point and trajectory – echo Lillee’s capacity to dictate terms. Bumrah’s quiet intensity and precision make him a nightmare, much like Lillee’s unrelenting aggression.

Andy Roberts, the original mastermind of the West Indies’ fast-bowling quartet, combined pace with strategic brilliance. His ability to set batsmen up – switching from brutal short balls to devastating yorkers – earned him 202 wickets at an average of 25.61.

Bumrah shares Roberts’ cerebral approach. Both bowlers use subtle variations to outfox batsmen, relying on strategy rather than brute force. Bumrah’s spell in the 2018 Boxing Day Test against Australia – culminating in 6-33 – was a modern echo of Roberts’ game-changing bursts.

Roberts had a loping and relaxed run-up and a very strong shoulder action like Bumrah, and skidded onto you quite quickly, so it was important to be focused on the ball leaving the hand. I prepared for his full ball and thought about hitting him straight to keep me in a neutral position to present the full face of the bat as often as possible.

The danger of a bowler who zeroes in on the stumps, as Roberts did and Bumrah does, is that if you relax for a moment and try to hit across their deliveries, you become even more vulnerable to LBWs and bowled. I would use the same approach against Bumrah.

Bumrah mirrors this versatility. With 151 wickets at an average of 21.03 in just 30 Tests, his ability to excel in diverse conditions recalls Marshall’s dominance. Bumrah’s reverse swing on abrasive surfaces and his ability to seam and swing the ball under cloudy skies have been pivotal, evoking the same uncertainty that batsmen faced against Marshall. As Ian Botham famously remarked of Marshall, “He gave you no respite.” Today, batsmen echo similar sentiments about Bumrah.

Bumrah’s standout performances in pressure situations echo Steyn’s influence. His 5-7 against the West Indies in 2019 and 6-33 at Melbourne illustrate his ability to turn games single-handedly. While Steyn’s speed often edged him ahead, Bumrah’s variations, particularly his disguised slower balls, give him a unique weapon.

Bumrah’s numbers are extraordinary: an average of 21.03 and a strike rate of 48.6 rival those of Marshall and Steyn. His record against top teams – Australia (21.25) and England (22.02) – cements his stature as a bowler for the big occasion. Yet, his career, with only 30 Tests so far

What sets Bumrah apart is his combination of skills: Marshall’s adaptability, Lillee’s aggression, Hadlee’s control, Roberts’ strategy, Wasim and Waqar’s reverse swing, McGrath’s precision, Steyn’s explosiveness, and Rabada’s modern versatility. As Nasser Hussain aptly observed, “He’s the complete bowler.”

Make no mistake, Bumrah stands between Australia and the Border-Gavaskar Trophy.

Dennis Lillee and Andy Roberts were the best fast bowlers I faced. Bumrah combines the best of both

The Indian pace spearhead combines Lillee’s ability to dictate terms and unsettle batsmen with the cerebral approach of Roberts. If Australia can best him, they will win the Border-Gavaskar Trophy.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Buffet]

@kingusama92

If you notice, Greg Chappel is highlighting record against top teams, which many posters miss. I have highlighted it many times in forum the same aspect. Many posters still think that if you can average low by minnow bashing or weaker teams then it still counts same as great career record against the top teams. Greatness is not about career number. Gretaness is turning it on against the good teams consistently enough that you have a great record against better teams.

Wasim and Waqar both average 26-28 in matches inviolving Aus, Eng, SA, WI, Ind and Pak, That's 6 better teams out of 8 test teams of their era. Wasim's Average is pretty good, 26 avg is not bad at all, but if talk about some the best pacers in history and it's underwhelming. Some may argue that Pakistan had dead pitches but it was not dead pitches. Wasim and Waqar did not have that great record even when playign away agasint better teams.

Away matches inviolving Aus, Eng, SA, WI, Ind and Pak [ 6 better teams out of 8 ]

Wasim : 158 wickets - avg 27 - SR 62
Waqar : 105 wickets - Avg 29 - SR 52

If we do the same for Bumrah, replace WI by NZ for this era.

Away matches involving Aus, Eng, SA, NZ, Ind [ Clear 5 better teams out of 8 ]

Bumrah : 134 wickets - Avg 20 - SR 45

Bumrah is never playing Pakistan and has not played SL. Against WI he has avg of 9 or something. I won't care if he picks up 70 more cheap wickets against SL/WI. He is a bowler for big series as Greg Chappel said. Record against the top teams of era matters a way more. It shows how good you are agasin the best of your generation. He can have career average 20 or 24 , that's irrelavant as long as he has a great output in big series with sub 25 career avg. Before some one brings pitches, yah no other bowler is averaging sub 25 with 100 plus test wickets right now. It's just too hard because we have only 10-11 bowlers in entire hsitory doing it.

I know we all love bowlers we watched when we were younger, but cricket moves on. I will still watch Wasim over any other bowler, but as far as rating goes it's a different issue. For rating you got to actually perform against good teams at same level as other top bowlers. Many other bowlers did it in the same era as Wasim/Wasim. Mcgrath, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock etc played in the same era so we don't need to even compra across era. 2 Ws also played for top 3 test teams of their era so support was not an issue.

 

[Buffet]

Many people will hesitate and bring longevity argument. Well, it matters only if you are performing at similar level against better teams. When gap becomes too wide then talking about volume is meaningless.

High quality 250 wickets >> 300-400 wickets without having a great record agasint better teams.

Yes, longevity argument is valid when it comes to Marshall or McGrath. Both have great record against better teams of their era. That's not true for Wasim and Waqar.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We are talking ICC finals here..

According to you Bumrah is the GOAT so get the GOAT stats for final.

Whats India vs Pakistan got to do with GOAT players performances in finals

That fact you changing subject now your rattled

Why ICC finals? Ambrose Donald Steyn didn't play any ICC finals.

How does that affect their greatness?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Many people will hesitate and bring longevity argument. Well, it matters only if you are performing at similar level against better teams. When gap becomes too wide then talking about volume is meaningless.

High quality 250 wickets >> 300-400 wickets without having a great record agasint better teams.

Yes, longevity argument is valid when it comes to Marshall or McGrath. Both have great record against better teams of their era. That's not true for Wasim and Waqar.

Wasim Waqar bullied a declining WI and mediocre England and NZ?

They were not that effective against Aus and SA?

 

[Buffet]

Wasim Waqar bullied a declining WI and mediocre England and NZ?

They were not that effective against Aus and SA?

Wi despite decline was one of the better teams. Eng was not a great team but still among the top 6. I already listed 6 better teams during that period and matches involving them.

Wasim/Waqar both average 26-28 against better teams. If Pakistani pitches is an issue for anyone, both have away average of 27-29 in matches involving same 6 teams. Other bowlers like Mcgrath, Ambrose, Donald, Pollock etc played in the same period so it's visible what other bowlers did in away conditions in the exact same period. Many of them averaged sub 25.

You don't have to perform against all top teams or in all venues. But taken together 6 better teams gives a picture of how well you did collectively.

 

[Ab Fan]

Given his performance in current series, he is making legitimate claim to be top 10 fast bowler of all time.

 

[JaDed]

Waqar? He got smacked by Jadeja and as a captain took PCT to new lows.
His best performance is against Zim and 1990s England.

Bumrah is not better than Wasim, Wasim is once in a generation type of player

 

[jnaveen1980]

Many people will hesitate and bring longevity argument. Well, it matters only if you are performing at similar level against better teams. When gap becomes too wide then talking about volume is meaningless.

High quality 250 wickets >> 300-400 wickets without having a great record agasint better teams.

Yes, longevity argument is valid when it comes to Marshall or McGrath. Both have great record against better teams of their era. That's not true for Wasim and Waqar.

There was a study they did on cricinfo long back about statpadding in bowling. Based on that study i found an interesting thing.

If you substract 9,10, 11 wickets

Zaheer khan has 273 wickets
Akram has 299 wickets

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I can never give Bumrah the credit he deserves, just like I never gave Murli the 800 test wicket man the same credit. Their actions don't sit pretty with me I'm afraid.

 

[Buffet]

There was a study they did on cricinfo long back about statpadding in bowling. Based on that study i found an interesting thing.

If you substract 9,10, 11 wickets

Zaheer khan has 273 wickets
Akram has 299 wickets

Do you have link?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Do you have link?

The bowlers who took the most high-quality wickets

In the wickets column of scorecards there is the bland pronouncement that a bowler has captured x number of wickets

www.espncricinfo.com

This was from 2008 i think. So may miss contemporary bowlers in this list. It is not a blanket analysis. It has added some context to it as well with example

 

[Pakpak]

Waqar? He got smacked by Jadeja and as a captain took PCT to new lows.
His best performance is against Zim and 1990s England.

Bumrah is not better than Wasim, Wasim is once in a generation type of player

We won an ODI series against an ATG Australian side....in Australia under Waqar, something we have only repeated it once since against a half strength Aussie team.

The man has 373 Test and 416 ODI wickets at 23 and again most of them on dead Pakistani tracks. Numbers any bowler would bite their hand off, in any era. The absolute sheer disrespect amongst Indians has honestly been breath taking, that too for a bowler who if he wasn't Indian would have his action tested with a very real chance it proving he's a chucker, I said it before in this thread you even have Australian players such as Head laughing in podcasts calling him a chucker so everyone privately suspects he chucks. And like I said above, it's like comparing Messi, who has nearly 600 goals and countless trophies, to someone who scores 200 goals at a similar rate but with half the achievements. Yet, people suddenly claim this new player is better than Messi.

I saw someone argue that Bumrah is better than Ambrose. Both average around 20, but Ambrose played 98 matches and took 403 wickets, while Bumrah has only played 42 matches and taken 183 wickets. There’s simply no comparison. In no realistic world—other than among deluded Indian fans—can someone with less than 50% of the wickets be considered better.

 

[RexRex]

Many people will hesitate and bring longevity argument. Well, it matters only if you are performing at similar level against better teams. When gap becomes too wide then talking about volume is meaningless.

High quality 250 wickets >> 300-400 wickets without having a great record agasint better teams.

Yes, longevity argument is valid when it comes to Marshall or McGrath. Both have great record against better teams of their era. That's not true for Wasim and Waqar.

The longevity argument is interesting; frankly a lot of indians are guilty of hyping up say SRT purely due to his longevity.

If say a pakistani fan substituted Sachin in a world XI for AB Devilliers, i wouldn't mind. The latter has a fantastic all-format all-condition record even though he's played I guess half of SRT's games and got fraction of the runs.

 

[Pakpak]

Waqar? He got smacked by Jadeja and as a captain took PCT to new lows.
His best performance is against Zim and 1990s England.

Bumrah is not better than Wasim, Wasim is once in a generation type of player

And as for Jadeja, your hero has choked in every semi and final he's played in.

 

[Pakpak]

And as for Jadeja, your hero has choked in every semi and final he's played in.

Ie Bumrah

 

[Amjid Javed]

Why ICC finals? Ambrose Donald Steyn didn't play any ICC finals.

How does that affect their greatness?

According all you loud mouth Indians bumrah is greatest sportsman ever.

Better than Marshall, sobers, Bradman. Better than Pele, tiger Woods, Federer, Nadal, Muhammad Ali etc..

Bumrah should be Nobel peace prize

Bumrah for mr universe

He's greatest of all Indian gods,

So seen as though uve all put him on this pedestal why shouldn't he perform in all finals

Don't use the weak excuse of other players. You want to create hype. Justify it with excuses.

If India don't win the CT in 2025, bumrah fails in another final. I will tag each and everyone of you

 

[cricketjoshila]

According all you loud mouth Indians bumrah is greatest sportsman ever.

Better than Marshall, sobers, Bradman. Better than Pele, tiger Woods, Federer, Nadal, Muhammad Ali etc..

Bumrah should be Nobel peace prize

Bumrah for mr universe

He's greatest of all Indian gods,

So seen as though uve all put him on this pedestal why shouldn't he perform in all finals

Don't use the weak excuse of other players. You want to create hype. Justify it with excuses.

If India don't win the CT in 2025, bumrah fails in another final. I will tag each and everyone of you

Your frustrations are showing now.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Waqar? He got smacked by Jadeja and as a captain took PCT to new lows.
His best performance is against Zim and 1990s England.

Bumrah is not better than Wasim, Wasim is once in a generation type of player

Bumrah isn't better than Wasim. But of Bumrah continues to perform like this and takes 300 plus test wickets with same avg and SR, he would be as good as any fast bowler who has played the game.

 

[RexRex]

The attempt at bumrah chucking accusations from some fans like @Pakpak seem a bit desperate... and frankly very amusing.

 

[Fanboy375]

You only need to look at the latest ODI world cup final round see how obnoxious Indian fans are when it comes to other cricketers. Never giving credit to anyone.

At same time worshipping their own players like gods. Only nation In world with this weird mindset. Then to come on to a rivals forum and behave in such manner a

A bowler that's not even got 200 test wickets is supposedly best in history, delusion at it finest

Even bowler like Joel Garner who has just 259 wickets has got these from 10 years play.Bumrah just played 6 years.If we judge a player based on small sample size than Alastair Cook is the best bowler.

 

[amax]

Bumrah isn't better than Wasim. But of Bumrah continues to perform like this and takes 300 plus test wickets with same avg and SR, he would be as good as any fast bowler who has played the game.

I think its a right way to see things , there is not much separating the great bowlers, in terms of skills and completeness.

 

[JaDed]

And as for Jadeja, your hero has choked in every semi and final he's played in.

Sachin Mohali 2011 also He was Mos in 2003 though.. did Waqar ever have a good wc, last 2 years this entire forum has been behind Indian fans on importance of ICC tournament and away tests in SENA.

 

[Savak]

Waqars effectiveness and lethality ended when his express pace deserted him but Bhumrah who bowls a good 10 km/hr slower than a peak Waqar still manages to take wickets like water. Therefore Bhumrah is actually better than any bowler Pakistan produced.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Your frustrations are showing now.

No Frustration at all

 

[jnaveen1980]

Waqars effectiveness and lethality ended when his express pace deserted him but Bhumrah who bowls a good 10 km/hr slower than a peak Waqar still manages to take wickets like water. Therefore Bhumrah is actually better than any bowler Pakistan produced.

I am sure many have talked enough about Bumrah's release point. Clock speed can be deceptive as Tamim Iqbal said in the commentary that Cummins looks way quicker than Starc despite low speed in speed gun. I have also noticed this that batsmen have more time to play Starc than Cummins. Sometimes Starc's speed shows 142 kph. But 135 kph from cummins hurries the batsman more.

 

[Buffet]

The longevity argument is interesting; frankly a lot of indians are guilty of hyping up say SRT purely due to his longevity.

SRT was rated among the top 5-7 batsmen to play cricket half way in his career due to being stand out for 10 years in 90s. He is not rated high due to longevity. Longevity is cherry on top and not the main factor for SRT's stature. I think some posters ,who have not seen SRT in 90s, may think that he is rated due to longevity. Runs/tons/volume is not very meanigful in itself.

If you can stand out then you can stand out. If you can't then you can't.
If you can do well against good teams, you get rated very high, if not then lower.
If you can perform well in tough away tours then you get rated higher, if not then lower.

That has been always the case and no amount of longevity is going to cover for all those factors.

Wasim falls behind others in some of the factors that's why I think this longevity argument is meanigless. Yes, Longevity of Marshall and McGrath makes sense because they had all bases convered. SRT had all bases convered with longevity like McGrath in both formats.

Having said that, Wasim skills were as good as anyone else I have seen personally. So skill wise he is right up there. I am talking about actual output where he falls short. Better bowler means what you actually did and not what skills you had.

 

[Buffet]

There is not much separating the great bowlers, in terms of skills and completeness.

Correct, some top class bowlers have comparable skills and completeness.

But players do get rated based on actual output like perfomrance in tough tours, performance against good teams, relative performance against peer group etc.

Wasim is right up there in skill and completeness but not in actual output. He falls behind against others.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Warning:

Guys this thread is for the comparison of Jasprit Bumrah with Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram. Please let’s stick to the topic.

 

[Buffet]

The bowlers who took the most high-quality wickets

In the wickets column of scorecards there is the bland pronouncement that a bowler has captured x number of wickets

www.espncricinfo.com

This was from 2008 i think. So may miss contemporary bowlers in this list. It is not a blanket analysis. It has added some context to it as well with example

Thank you.

Blowing away the top order is way more important than taking the last 3 wickets, specially in older era when tails were walking wickets. Mcgrath did, Marshall did now Bumrah is doing it.

 

[Savak]

I am sure many have talked enough about Bumrah's release point. Clock speed can be deceptive as Tamim Iqbal said in the commentary that Cummins looks way quicker than Starc despite low speed in speed gun. I have also noticed this that batsmen have more time to play Starc than Cummins. Sometimes Starc's speed shows 142 kph. But 135 kph from cummins hurries the batsman more.

Starc has a slingy action therefore batters expect him to bowl quickly. Cummins action is more front on and therefore his effort ball surprises the batsman more.

 

[Buffet]

Waqars effectiveness and lethality ended when his express pace deserted him but Bhumrah who bowls a good 10 km/hr slower than a peak Waqar still manages to take wickets like water. Therefore Bhumrah is actually better than any bowler Pakistan produced.

I think Bumrah effectiveness being better than any Pakistani bowlers is due to his late release. Batsman has less reaction time. He is harder to hit in all formats due to the same reason. Ball is actualyl coming faster at you due to losing less speed in air.

Not saying, that's the only reason. Swing, seam, reverse all plays a part, but late release with everything else still present makes him harder bowler to face. He is probably the hardest bowler to hit.

To put it in context, Wasim is among the top bowlers in ODI and not easy to hit and had similar skills as Bumrah. Wasim had ER of 4.3 in ODI games during 200-250 era against non-minnows. Bumrah has ER of 4.2 against non-minnows in era of 300-350 runs in ODI WC. No one else in current era has crazy low ER like Bumrah for the same reaosn. And no, Wasim was not getting hit due to going for wickets, his SR was 60. Bumrah picks up wickets faster as well.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Waqars effectiveness and lethality ended when his express pace deserted him but Bhumrah who bowls a good 10 km/hr slower than a peak Waqar still manages to take wickets like water. Therefore Bhumrah is actually better than any bowler Pakistan produced.

Wasim is still ahead of Bumrah. His longevity is the reason.

 

[Savak]

I think Bumrah effectiveness being better than any Pakistani bowlers is due to his late release. Batsman has less reaction time. He is harder to hit in all formats due to the same reason. Ball is actualyl coming faster at you due to losing less speed in air.

Not saying, that's the only reason. Swing, seam, reverse all plays a part, but late release with everything else still present makes him harder bowler to face. He is probably the hardest bowler to hit.

To put it in context, Wasim is among the top bowlers in ODI and not easy to hit and had similar skills as Bumrah. Wasim had ER of 4.3 in ODI games during 200-250 era against non-minnows. Bumrah has ER of 4.2 against non-minnows in era of 300-350 runs in ODI WC. No one else in current era has crazy low ER like Bumrah for the same reaosn. And no, Wasim was not getting hit due to going for wickets, his SR was 60. Bumrah picks up wickets faster as well.

Bhumrah makes the batsman play at every delivery, every delivery challenges the outside edge or the stumps. I have not seen a more naturally gifted bowler in this generation

 

[Amjid Javed]

So now your harping on about ODIs.

Back in 80s and 90s in general ODI games were taken more seriously. Outside of the ODI world cup you had other tournaments that were regularly played (tri series. 4 team series etc..), with teams playing full strength sides. On top of that teams took bilateral series more series as well.

You look at ODIs now, because some much T20 cricket is plus the IPL, and other schedules you can see scenarios where teams are selecting players for a test series, then resting loads of players for ODI games. You regularly see ODI teams putting out B or C teams in bilateral ODI games. So a so called "strong ODI team in theory at times isn't putting out is best players". So the theory that a player has performed against a good side is not necessarily true.

before any Indians start crying as usual. I'm talking about all teams here. Example Pakistan has beat Australia in 2 ODI series (one in Pakistan and one in Australia) on both occasions Australia were missing players due to being rested. So then turning around and saying oh player X performed against a top side the stats show that. Is s complete load of bull crap, but your so called stats filters don't account for whether a team chose to put out its strongest squad or not.

So there could be a series when Cummins, starc or bumrah or any other player may have performed well vs england in ODI for example, but reality is England may have picked a B or C team level squad. That's the reality of how teams select teams for certain series now.

Teams didn't do that back in 80s and 90s. So all this so called player x did well vs this strong team is not necessary correct. The way ODI cricket is now teams only put out strong sides at time in CT and WC.


If your going to harp on about stats, atleast have thr decency to factor in what ODI tournaments players played in won etc... again the selective ******** stats with zero context don't show the impact a player really had

A player could have play 4 games in a tri series, end up with 2 bad games, 2 good ones. Ultimately those 2 good ones might have included a final which a player helped their team win the trophy.

So all this so called degrading of players, just so you can crack one off over bumrah while having your pants is hilarious. No context bakwas at its finest from the little Indian stats geek.

 

[Mamoon]

Bumrah has won more ODI trophies for Pakistan than he has for India.

Any comparison with Wasim will not be entertain unless and until he wins the Champions Trophy or the World Cup.

He had a golden opportunity to do so in 2023, but the so-called GOAT was inferior to Shami throughout the tournament and choked in the final when he had the opportunity to bowl India to victory.

 

[Hellion]

Can't produce a semi decent Test bowler
so accuse Bumrah of chucking.

 

[Buffet]

Bhumrah makes the batsman play at every delivery, every delivery challenges the outside edge or the stumps. I have not seen a more naturally gifted bowler in this generation

Yah, You are right. It's harder to see off bowlers if most deliveries can't be left. There is no point in ooh aah deliveries if batsmen can simply leave it. Point is to blow away top order as quickly as possible and to do that you got to make it hard for them.

Cummins does it often as well. He keeps it tight and makes batsmen play deliveries.

 

[Amjid Javed]

@Buffet Let me expose your stats. You like to selectively say that wasim Akram for example didn't have that great an impact against the best.

If you look at Akrams ODI stats he played 49 games in Australia took 67 wickets at 27.43, strike rate of 38.9, econ 4.22

So that doesn't look amazing at all, you get your light bulbs out and start doing bhangra, wasim isn't that good.

Akram Was the reason Pakistan won the WC in Australia in 92.

It also doesn't tell that he was Pakistan best bowler In the tri series with Australia / west indies in 96/97 with 15 wickets at 18. Also was one of main reasons Pakistan won the 2nd final vs West indies

Then in 2002 in Australia, Akram helped Pakistan win a on ODi series 2-1. Including 3-18 in 2nd game.

Yet according to you and your stats, Akram didn't perform against the best.

People remember games and tournaments and high profile series a player won them. Not oh he averages 27 in Australia, he wasn't thar great.

Absolutely

 

[amax]

@Buffet Let me expose your stats. You like to selectively say that wasim Akram for example didn't have that great an impact against the best.

If you look at Akrams ODI stats he played 49 games in Australia took 67 wickets at 27.43, strike rate of 38.9, econ 4.22

So that doesn't look amazing at all, you get your light bulbs out and start doing bhangra, wasim isn't that good.

Akram Was the reason Pakistan won the WC in Australia in 92.

It also doesn't tell that he was Pakistan best bowler In the tri series with Australia / west indies in 96/97 with 15 wickets at 18. Also was one of main reasons Pakistan won the 2nd final vs West indies

Then in 2002 in Australia, Akram helped Pakistan win a on ODi series 2-1. Including 3-18 in 2nd game.

Yet according to you and your stats, Akram didn't perform against the best.

People remember games and tournaments and high profile series a player won them. Not oh he averages 27 in Australia, he wasn't thar great.

Absolutely
member games and tournaments and high profile series a player won them. Not oh he averages 27 in Australia, he wasn't thar great.

Stats can be misleading, and numbers can deteriorate simply because of some bad series at the start and end. Wasim is rated very highly by his contemporaries in Australia.

 

[Amjid Javed]

If Bumrah don't win India this next CT, with him being the world's greatest ever sportsmen according to whole of India, then God have mercy on each one of them. Because the will get the biggest pasting of their entire posting careers on this forum. Will see how many of these sore loses turn up and show humility.

 

[Savak]

Bumrah has won more ODI trophies for Pakistan than he has for India.

Any comparison with Wasim will not be entertain unless and until he wins the Champions Trophy or the World Cup.

He had a golden opportunity to do so in 2023, but the so-called GOAT was inferior to Shami throughout the tournament and choked in the final when he had the opportunity to bowl India to victory.

Bhumrah already has a better record than Wasim in Australia and has won India a T20 WC on his own. The way Bhumrah challenges the batsman on every delivery is not something that Wasim always did. Wasim also declined in his mid 30's but that can be blamed more on Diabetes

 

[DeadlyVenom]

A very interesting debate in this thread has been tarnished by immature Indian fans. It became difficult to read.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Bhumrah already has a better record than Wasim in Australia and has won India a T20 WC on his own. The way Bhumrah challenges the batsman on every delivery is not something that Wasim always did. Wasim also declined in his mid 30's but that can be blamed more on Diabetes

Really, what format are we talking here? Tests? ODIs?

Wasim helped Pakistan win WC, tri series and ODI series in Australia.

India were so in 80s and 90s seems like the didn't watch any cricket and resorting to imaginary scenarios when it comes to Akram.

 

[Azaad]

@Buffet Let me expose your no context bakwas stats. You like to selectively say that wasim Akram for example didn't have that great an impact against the best.

If you look at Akrams ODI stats he played 49 games in Australia took 67 wickets at 27.43, strike rate of 38.9, econ 4.22

So that doesn't look amazing at all, you get your light bulbs out and start doing bhangra, wasim isn't that good.

What your pile of rubbish stats don't tell is that.

Akram Was the reason Pakistan won the WC in Australia in 92.

It also doesn't tell that he was Pakistan best bowler In the tri series with Australia / west indies in 96/97 with 15 wickets at 18. Also was one of main reasons Pakistan won the 2nd final vs West indies

Then in 2002 in Australia, Akram helped Pakistan win a on ODi series 2-1. Including 3-18 in 2nd game.

Yet according to you and your no context bakwas stats, Akram didn't perform against the best.

But keep posting your non-contexr stats so your fellow Indians can continue to back slap each over delusion.

People remember games and tournaments and high profile series a player won them. Not oh he averages 27 in Australia, he wasn't thar great.

Absolutely

Buffet is a SA poster, not everyone who rates Bumrah is Indian

 

[Buffet]

@Buffet Let me expose your no context bakwas stats. You like to selectively say that wasim Akram for example didn't have that great an impact against the best.

If you look at Akrams ODI stats he played 49 games in Australia took 67 wickets at 27.43, strike rate of 38.9, econ 4.22

When discussing Matshall, Bumrah, Wasim etc and not having impact against the best , we all are discussing test format. Marshall wasn't among the best in ODI format.

 

[IMMY69]

Has his action been tested yet?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Has his action been tested yet?

Yeah he's be cleared to compete at world darts championship next season, also at the shot put and javelin at next Olympic games

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Has his action been tested yet?

More chance of xxgs flying.

 

[kron]

He didn't skip Indian tours. He missed one through injury.

To actually insinuate that a ATG bowler was scared to tour India, is hilarious.

Using that dumb logic all Indian players are cowards for not touring pakistan

Oh on top of that is performance vs india now the yard stick of greatness?

He also averaged 36 vs india in west indies.

 

[Amjid Javed]

When discussing Matshall, Bumrah, Wasim etc and not having impact against the best , we all are discussing test format. Marshall wasn't among the best in ODI format.

Absolute rubbish, you've harped on about bumrah ATG, bumrah greatest all format bowler.

Don't start this nonsense now, that you were only talking about tests.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Waqars effectiveness and lethality ended when his express pace deserted him but Bhumrah who bowls a good 10 km/hr slower than a peak Waqar still manages to take wickets like water. Therefore Bhumrah is actually better than any bowler Pakistan produced.

Wasim and co bowled at a far higher quality batsmen in Tests and ODIS

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bumrah has won more ODI trophies for Pakistan than he has for India.

Any comparison with Wasim will not be entertain unless and until he wins the Champions Trophy or the World Cup.

He had a golden opportunity to do so in 2023, but the so-called GOAT was inferior to Shami throughout the tournament and choked in the final when he had the opportunity to bowl India to victory.

I am not a fan of this overall world cup record stat that's gets posted to analyse players.

But if you look at the world cups he played in he was outbowled by Starc in one and Sami in the other.

 

[Amjid Javed]

He also averaged 36 vs india in west indies.

Ok so basically by logic, now if a bowler has a bad average against one team they aren't great.

So whats bumrahs excuse against NZ he averages 45 against them

Shane Warne isn't a legend as he was rubbish against India

why don't you name all crickete in history of game that have performed against every single side they have faced?

 

[Buffet]

Stats can be misleading, and numbers can deteriorate simply because of some bad series at the start and end.

Agree that numbers can get worse due to poor series early in career or poor series near the end. It has happened with many and we shouldn't judge bowlers based on that. But that's not the case with Wasim,

We can take out first 2 and last 2 years of Wasim:

Best away pacers in match involving Aus, WI, Eng, Ind, SA and Pak after removing first 2 and last 2 years of Wasim's career.

Wasim's away average in matches involving 6 better teams remains in the same 27-28 range. There is no deterioration or change.



Just to make sure no one is taking it negative way. When we are talking about best of the best in history, pointing out where Wasim lacks is not downplaying Wasim. You can't actually compare without presenting performance.

It does not mean that I don't rate him. I rate him as an top tier ATG. Pakistan has produced two, IK and Wasim. IK goes as a top tier for being 3 best all rounder in history to play cricket. Wasim goes as top tier due to being so good in both formats. Very few in history have been so good in both formats. Many are just one format specialists.

Taken together Wasim is simply among the top 5 pacer to play cricket without any hesitation. In test format alone, he goes a bit lower for me for the reasons I pointed out.

This will be my last post in this thread.

 

[Mamoon]

Bhumrah already has a better record than Wasim in Australia and has won India a T20 WC on his own. The way Bhumrah challenges the batsman on every delivery is not something that Wasim always did. Wasim also declined in his mid 30's but that can be blamed more on Diabetes

You need to win at least 3 T20 World Cups for it to compare to one ODI World Cup, which is the ultimate prize in white ball cricket. Nothing comes remotely close.

Wasim’s two deliveries to Lamb and Lewis at the MCG are bigger than Bumrah’s entire white ball career so far.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Imagine been a so called greatest sportsmen of all time by a delusional nation and your career highlights include

- averaging 45 vs NZ In tests
- bottling two ICC WTC finals
- bottling a ODI WC semi final (19) and final (24) in front of 90,000 delusional fans who think that your their god
- bottling a CT final against the worst Pakistan ODI team in history
- the greatest delivery bowled in white ball cricket was a No ball vs fakhar zaman

Amazing

But let's look at Buffets stats and do bhangra over the bumrah posters on the bedroom walls

 

[mominsaigol]

Imagine been a so called greatest sportsmen of all time by a delusional nation and your career highlights include

- averaging 45 vs NZ In tests
- bottling two ICC WTC finals
- bottling a ODI WC semi final (19) and final (24) in front of 90,000 delusional fans who think that your their god
- bottling a CT final against the worst Pakistan ODI team in history
- the greatest delivery bowled in white ball cricket was a No ball vs fakhar zaman

Amazing

But let's look at Buffets stats and do bhangra over the bumrah posters on the bedroom walls

This same nation thinks Ashwin is on Par with Pollock as a cricketer and that McGrath isn't an odi great .

Ig they forgot about the time McGrath bullied India in an odi match with 4/8 in 10 overs.

Or when he got rid of their superstar on a golden duck in 2003 final

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Message to Pak and Indian fans - ignore attention seeking gullas who are trying to elicit a reaction by tagging and begging for support. Let's stick to the topic and discuss respectfully with numbers and facts.

 

[guard]

Bhumrah already has a better record than Wasim in Australia and has won India a T20 WC on his own. The way Bhumrah challenges the batsman on every delivery is not something that Wasim always did. Wasim also declined in his mid 30's but that can be blamed more on Diabetes

bro, its Bumrah not Bhumrah

 

[RexRex]

The Ws had a poor record in Aus. My abiding memory of Wasim and Waqar down under was in the Hobart test of 1999.

I was a big fan of the two Ws but on that day they got carted all over the ground by Gilchrist and Langer. Aus were about 100/5 while chasing 360 and W&W couldn't stop the flow of runs or nab a single wicket for the rest of innings. I remember feeling bad for Pakistan, embarrassed in fact. The firebrand Akhtar was playing too. He was new then, so I didn't blame him too much.

 

[kron]

Ok so basically by logic, now if a bowler has a bad average against one team they aren't great.

So whats bumrahs excuse against NZ he averages 45 against them

Shane Warne isn't a legend as he was rubbish against India

You Indians really do come out with some complete and ****, why don't you name all crickete in history of game that have performed against every single side they have faced?

Truth is bumrah is the best bowler from Asia ever.

You don't have to accept it. But even wasim bhai said that booms is easily the best Asian bowler


As for Ambrose. Not just in India. His skills just don't suit Asian style pitches. If you have seen him live you would know.

 

[kron]

Imagine been a so called greatest sportsmen of all time by a delusional nation and your career highlights include

- averaging 45 vs NZ In tests
- bottling two ICC WTC finals
- bottling a ODI WC semi final (19) and final (24) in front of 90,000 delusional fans who think that your their god
- bottling a CT final against the worst Pakistan ODI team in history
- the greatest delivery bowled in white ball cricket was a No ball vs fakhar zaman

Amazing

But let's look at Buffets stats and do bhangra over the bumrah posters on the bedroom walls

But tulla, what is the 2 w's stats in big tournaments?

What's their record away from home

Ok nz is one team. What is your 2 was record overall in sena

You want me to bring it up?

 

[kron]

You need to win at least 3 T20 World Cups for it to compare to one ODI World Cup, which is the ultimate prize in white ball cricket. Nothing comes remotely close.

Wasim’s two deliveries to Lamb and Lewis at the MCG are bigger than Bumrah’s entire white ball career so far.

No it doesn't lmao. Waqar is like a corpse now already. Only wasim left. A few more good performances vs england and SA in tests and he overtakes him quite easily.

Who cares for LOi

Tests is what makes legends.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Truth is bumrah is the best bowler from Asia ever.

You don't have to accept it. But even wasim bhai said that booms is easily the best Asian bowler


As for Ambrose. Not just in India. His skills just don't suit Asian style pitches. If you have seen him live you would know.

funny how conveniently ignore bumrah record vs new zealand. Yet you pick out another bowlers supposed poor record.

Also bumrah has bottled numerous finals in different formats, all off sudden you delusional Indians start getting selective amnesia.

Beat bowler from Asia ever hilarious. Plenty of bowlers have taken more wickets, performed over longer period etc..

Ambrose had a decent record in Asia, in the limited tests he played, so again his so called skills not suiting asian conditions is a load of assumptions rubbish from you again.

I saw all of Ambrose career so I know how good he was. When Bumrah wins India test matches by taking 7-1 in a spell in Australia feel free to come back.

Also look at other test where WI defended low totals vs SA and india, wher Ambrose ripped through sides in Bridgetown. Again when Bumrah wins matches for India defending low totals, feel free to come back.

A player that hasn't won a series in England or NZ, has bottled 2 WTC finals is Asia's best ever bowler.

 

[Amjid Javed]

But tulla, what is the 2 w's stats in big tournaments?

What's their record away from home

Ok nz is one team. What is your 2 was record overall in sena

You want me to bring it up?

Bring what ever you like up.

Let's deal with facts its you clueless Indians that's are proclaiming thar bumrah is world's greatest sportsmen, yet he's had all these failures.

No one is say the two Ws are best bowlers in history. That's the difference

If your going to worship a player like a god, then your lame response is what did player x,y,z do is hilarious

If bumrah is that good what has he bottled all those finals. That's the question so feel free to answer that question.

Rather then deflecting else where