How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

[kron]

Bring what ever you like up.

Let's deal with facts its you clueless Indians that's are proclaiming thar bumrah is world's greatest sportsmen, yet he's had all these failures.

No one is say the two Ws are best bowlers in history. That's the difference

If your going to worship a player like a god, then your lame response is what did player x,y,z do is hilarious

If bumrah is that good what has he bottled all those finals. That's the question so feel free to answer that question.

Rather then deflecting else where

Wasim waqar has bottled finals too.

Waqar dint even make any finals. You need to be good enough yo reach finals

Look at this series

Bumrah without shami, without prime ishant post 2015 has still performed really well

Wasim can never Carry a team by himself like booms.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Wasim waqar has bottled finals too.

Waqar dint even make any finals. You need to be good enough yo reach finals

Look at this series

Bumrah without shami, without prime ishant post 2015 has still performed really well

Wasim can never Carry a team by himself like booms.

What ever, if your a so called best player in Asian history, you turn up in finals. So cut the rubbish, the fact your rolling out excuses and bringing other players into it shows how clueless you are.

 

[kron]

What ever, if your a so called best player in Asian history, you turn up in finals. So cut the rubbish, the fact your rolling out excuses and bringing other players into it shows how clueless you are.

Stats and even waaim bhai says booms is better though. What do you want me to do?

 

[Hitman]

Ok so basically by logic, now if a bowler has a bad average against one team they aren't great.

So whats bumrahs excuse against NZ he averages 45 against them

Shane Warne isn't a legend as he was rubbish against India

why don't you name all crickete in history of game that have performed against every single side they have faced?

Don Bradman, Sachin Tendulkar. They have no poor record againt any team, and in any country. There might be more names, but I can recall these 2.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Don Bradman, Sachin Tendulkar. They have no poor record again any team, and in any country. There might be more names, but I can recall these 2.

Exactly my point, for a cricket to have 1 or 2 places they don't perform is natural.

Indian fans want to bring up marshalls record in NZ, Ambrose record vs India.

Yet you mention bumrahs record vs NZ, or all finals he's bottled and all off sudden its

Ws didn't reach finals, Pakistanis are jealous, Pakistan aren't good enough to get to finals ..

Absolutely hilarious that's Indians can't have a constructive conversation, instead change subject, rather than maturely have a conversation

 

[Mamoon]

No it doesn't lmao. Waqar is like a corpse now already. Only wasim left. A few more good performances vs england and SA in tests and he overtakes him quite easily.

Who cares for LOi

Tests is what makes legends.

No one cares about LOIs until it is time to flex over the captaincy of the garbage cricketer that Dhoni was or when it comes to flexing the fluke T20 World Cup that your chokers won this year.

 

[saimayubera]

Imagine been a so called greatest sportsmen of all time by a delusional nation and your career highlights include

- averaging 45 vs NZ In tests
- bottling two ICC WTC finals
- bottling a ODI WC semi final (19) and final (24) in front of 90,000 delusional fans who think that your their god
- bottling a CT final against the worst Pakistan ODI team in history
- the greatest delivery bowled in white ball cricket was a No ball vs fakhar zaman

Amazing

But let's look at Buffets stats and do bhangra over the bumrah posters on the bedroom walls

This is completely disingenuous and non-factual as well.

Wasim will look worse if such things are done.

First of all, Bumrah didn't even play the 23 WTC final.

Let us do an overview of Wasim Akram's performance in ICC tournaments (I'm not even considering Waqar who never won anything)

WORLD CUPS

1987 semi - Bottled a semi against a weak Aus team at home in Lahore in front of a home crowd by being the most expensive pacer and taking no wickets, shattering Imran's dreams of a home WC. Imran left the stadium crying.

1996 quarters - Mysteriously picked up a niggle and didn't play. Waqar and co were slaughtered by one of the worst Indian teams of all time who had not won a match against Pak in the 5-6 years prior. Shadows of match-fixing hovered over his head.

1999 finals - Bottled the final by winning the toss and deciding to bowl first. Match was over in 50 overs.

2003 - Failed to even qualify for the semis and got kicked out in the group stage.

CHAMPION'S TROPHY

1998 - Bottled a match against WI and got kicked out in first round

2000 - Bottled the semi against NZ and couldn't defend a score. Took 0 wickets.

2002 - Bottled the group stage match against SL and got kicked out in the first round.

So basically the only ICC tournament he has won is a WC where he bowled well in the final. Guess what, Bumrah has that too.

Now let's come to test cricket.

AUS: Won 1 match in his career. 0 5 wicket hauls in wins. Bumrah - has won 4 with 2 match winning 5 wicket hauls. Siraj has won 3 with 1 match winning 5 wicket haul.

SA: Won 0 matches. Averages 39. Bumrah - has won 3 with 2 match winning 5 wicket hauls. Siraj has won 2 with 1 match winning 5 wicket haul.

So if you dissect enough, everyone has weaknesses.

Bumrah compares very well to Wasim. Only thing is longevity (Waqar is not even in the question so I won't even compare).

If Bumrah wins one more ICC trophy and gets to 300 test wickets with his current average, he is undisputed over Wasim.

 

[saimayubera]

No one cares about LOIs until it is to flex over the captaincy of the garbage cricketer that Dhoni was or when it comes to flexing the fluke T20 World Cup that your chokers won this year.

Yeah winning EVERY match and going through a tournament UNDEFEATED is a fluke.


The biggest FLUKE was the 22 WC where Pak got served in the final.

 

[saimayubera]

You need to win at least 3 T20 World Cups for it to compare to one ODI World Cup, which is the ultimate prize in white ball cricket. Nothing comes remotely close.

Wasim’s two deliveries to Lamb and Lewis at the MCG are bigger than Bumrah’s entire white ball career so far.

Lol says who?

The ODI WC was very low prestige back in the day. Malcolm Marshall skipped the 87 WC, that's how low prestige it was.

T20 is the biggest format. ODIs are hardly played.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah winning EVERY match and going through a tournament UNDEFEATED is a fluke.


The biggest FLUKE was the 22 WC where Pak got served in the final.

Fluke because you had bottled the final and only some Oscar winning acting by Pant gave you a lucky victory.

You are lucky you played your fellow chokers in the final. Any other team besides SA would have whooped you as usual.

The 2023 World Cup proved that India doesn’t have the mettle to deliver under pressure. The over the top, cringeworthy celebrations over winning the T20 World Cup was a failed attempt to cover up the humiliation suffered in the 2023 final.

 

[saimayubera]

@Buffet Let me expose your stats. You like to selectively say that wasim Akram for example didn't have that great an impact against the best.

If you look at Akrams ODI stats he played 49 games in Australia took 67 wickets at 27.43, strike rate of 38.9, econ 4.22

So that doesn't look amazing at all, you get your light bulbs out and start doing bhangra, wasim isn't that good.

Akram Was the reason Pakistan won the WC in Australia in 92.

It also doesn't tell that he was Pakistan best bowler In the tri series with Australia / west indies in 96/97 with 15 wickets at 18. Also was one of main reasons Pakistan won the 2nd final vs West indies

Then in 2002 in Australia, Akram helped Pakistan win a on ODi series 2-1. Including 3-18 in 2nd game.

Yet according to you and your stats, Akram didn't perform against the best.

People remember games and tournaments and high profile series a player won them. Not oh he averages 27 in Australia, he wasn't thar great.

Absolutely

Random bilateral series and tri series? Bumrah has won plenty of those.

Add in the Asia Cup then lol.

Bumrah has played 3 Asia Cups, won all 3 and defeated Pak in 4/4 complete matches. Would have done it twice in 2023 but rain intervened.

Wasim played 4 and won 1.

I don't consider the Asia Cup to be a serious tournament btw. But if random tri series and bilaterals are being added lol.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol says who?

The ODI WC was very low prestige back in the day. Malcolm Marshall skipped the 87 WC, that's how low prestige it was.

T20 is the biggest format. ODIs are hardly played.

That has nothing to do with the fact that the ODI World Cup is the most prestigious white ball trophy and still far more valuable than a T20 World Cup. You can ask Rohit Sharma and the whole Indian team, who would happily give up the 2024 victory for the 2023 one.

A T20 World Cup will never compensate for an ODI World Cup. The T20 World Cup is more significant than the CT though.

 

[saimayubera]

Fluke because you had bottled the final and only some Oscar winning acting by Pant gave you a lucky victory.

You are lucky you played your fellow chokers in the final. Any other team besides SA would have whooped you as usual.

The 2023 World Cup proved that India doesn’t have the mettle to deliver under pressure. The over the top, cringeworthy celebrations over winning the T20 World Cup was a failed attempt to cover up the humiliation suffered in the 2023 final.

Lol Pakistan has made one ODI WC semi this century, tied with Kenya. That too was Mohali, a source of eternal trauma.

That is humiliation.

SA went into the finals by beating everyone else as did India (by beating Pak too in case you forgot)

When is Pakistan going to host a home WC? Can they even host a home CT?

 

[saimayubera]

That has nothing to do with the fact that the ODI World Cup is the most prestigious white ball trophy and still far more valuable than a T20 World Cup. You can ask Rohit Sharma and the whole Indian team, who would happily give up the 2024 victory for the 2023 one.

A T20 World Cup will never compensate for an ODI World Cup. The T20 World Cup is more significant than the CT though.

ODI WC now is. Not the 1992 one.

The T20 WC will be of the same or greater prestige than ODI WC as the older generations age and die out and the younger generations who grew up with T20 become the core fan base.

Then Bumrah's 2024 T20 WC will be retroactively be on the same pedestal as Wasim's 1992 (which also has achieved retroactive greatness. ODIs were still not taken seriously in the 90s).

 

[saimayubera]

funny how conveniently ignore bumrah record vs new zealand. Yet you pick out another bowlers supposed poor record.

Also bumrah has bottled numerous finals in different formats, all off sudden you delusional Indians start getting selective amnesia.

Beat bowler from Asia ever hilarious. Plenty of bowlers have taken more wickets, performed over longer period etc..

Ambrose had a decent record in Asia, in the limited tests he played, so again his so called skills not suiting asian conditions is a load of assumptions rubbish from you again.

I saw all of Ambrose career so I know how good he was. When Bumrah wins India test matches by taking 7-1 in a spell in Australia feel free to come back.

Also look at other test where WI defended low totals vs SA and india, wher Ambrose ripped through sides in Bridgetown. Again when Bumrah wins matches for India defending low totals, feel free to come back.

A player that hasn't won a series in England or NZ, has bottled 2 WTC finals is Asia's best ever bowler.

Wasim never won a series in WI, Aus or SA - the good teams in his time.

Yes, he has won in Eng/NZ but they were weak then.

That's like considering Bumrah's win in WI over Wasim's inability to win there. But I won't as Wasim's WI and Bumrah's WI were two different strength teams just like Wasim's NZ/Eng and Bumrah's NZ/Eng.

Bumrah has at least won 2 in Aus.

 

[saimayubera]

Also thing is Pakistan good run in the 80s-early 90s was in a weaker era.

There were only six teams. Ind, Pak, Aus, Eng, WI, NZ.

SA didn't play.
SL were minnows.
Bang and Afg didn't play.
Nor were the minnows as high quality as USA, Zim are now.

All of those teams in recent years have inflicted painful losses on Pakistan, kicking them out from tournaments (World Cups, Asia Cups, Test series).

1980s-early 90s Pak never had to face those.

Also cricket was way unprofessional with no neutral umpires (Pakistan's enviable home record collapsed as soon as neutral umpires came into the game even losing to the likes of Zimbabwe), analytics, fitness regimes etc.

In a way, Pakistan's good period is like a quaint reminder of the bygone days of cricket like say Hungary's domination of football in the 1950s (The Golden Team). In a more professional era with the rise of the Asian and African teams along with other European teams, the Hungarian football team is nowhere in the picture.

Pakistan cricket might face a similar trajectory, considering they have been kicked out of recent World Cups by the likes of Afghanistan and USA.

A similar thing has already happened in hockey where they keep losing to teams like Malaysia, Japan, China etc with no big history of hockey and fail to even make it to the Olympics/World Cups.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah is making a strong case to be top 10 fast bowler of all-time.

Better than Wasim is debatable but it is certainly a contest.

As of now, I can only think of below names ahead of him:-

Marshall
McGrath ( hope posters are capable of reading this because last time the delusionals deliberately skipped and started attacking)
Hadlee
Wasim
Ambrose
Steyn
Imran

Bumrah has won more games vs top teams than anyone else has done in their entire career. Minnow bashing doesn’t count for much.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Wasim never won a series in WI, Aus or SA - the good teams in his time.

Yes, he has won in Eng/NZ but they were weak then.

That's like considering Bumrah's win in WI over Wasim's inability to win there. But I won't as Wasim's WI and Bumrah's WI were two different strength teams just like Wasim's NZ/Eng and Bumrah's NZ/Eng.

Bumrah has at least won 2 in Aus.

The Australian team now compared to what wasim played is chalk and cheese. That Aussy team had some of the greatest players of all time

 

[saimayubera]

The Australian team now compared to what wasim played is chalk and cheese. That Aussy team had some of the greatest players of all time

Naah.

THAT Aussie team only formed in the late 90s with Hayden/Gilchrist/Langer/Martyn etc coming into the fold. Wasim played that team only once in 2000.

The 95/96 team was comparable to the team Bumrah beat in 20/21 (Great team but not the greatest of all time).

The 89/90 team was comparable to the 18/19 team (pretty weak team. McGrath, Warne, Mark Waugh etc hadn't come into the team). I would say the 18/19 team was stronger cause the bowling was still world class and they had Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, the Marshes etc.

 

[Ab Fan]

If winning a World Cup is a factor, Wasim will be ahead of quite a handful such as Hadlee, Donald, Steyn and Ambrose. Is he really ahead of them though? in Tests definitely not.

Only Wasim, Garner and McGrath are the ones with ATG level record in both formats and won the World Cup.

Hadlee, Donald and Bumrah are the other names with ATG level record in both formats but haven’t won ODI World Cup.

Marshall, Ambrose and Steyn don’t even have ATG level record in ODIs while Pollock and Waqar aren’t really top tier ATGs due to their major decline in later periods.

 

[saimayubera]

If winning a World Cup is a factor, Wasim will be ahead of quite a handful such as Hadlee, Donald, Steyn and Ambrose. Is he really ahead of them though? in Tests definitely not.

Only Wasim, Garner and McGrath are the ones with ATG level record in both formats and won the World Cup.

Hadlee, Donald and Bumrah are the other names with ATG level record in both formats but haven’t won ODI World Cup.

Marshall, Ambrose and Steyn don’t even have ATG level record in ODIs while Pollock and Waqar aren’t really top tier ATGs due to their major decline in later periods.

Bumrah has a T20 WC which is a pre-eminent tournament in his era in the most commonly played format.

 

[saimayubera]

Bumrah has a T20 WC which is a pre-eminent tournament in his era in the most commonly played format.

And if someone's argument is that ODI>T20 due to it being older then that same argument can be extended to tests>ODI and Wasim has one of the weaker test CVs amongst all the great fast bowlers.

He never won an away series against a top side in his career (Didn't win in WI, Aus and NZ in the 80s. Didn't win in Aus, SA or WI in the 90s. NZ were dreadful post Hadlee. Pak started winning there only in 93).

All the others - Steyn, Bumrah, Hadlee, Garner, Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath etc have.

 

[saimayubera]

Now that I see the records etc I realize the greatest BLEMISH against Pakistan as a test playing nation is that they have NEVER won an away series against a STRONG team (say top 3 for the period/decade).

Their wins against:

England came in the 80s (6th best) and 90s (7th best)
New Zealand in the 90s (8th best) and 00s (7th best)
Ind in 80s (5th best)
WI in the 2010s (8th best)

SL/Bang have never been a top 4 team ever (SL's peak was in the 00s when they were 5th). Never won in SA/Aus.

Ind on the other hand have a few:

Eng in 71 (1 in the 60s and 70s)
WI in 71 (3 in the 60s and 2 in the 70s)
Eng in 07 (3 in the 00s)
Aus in 18-19* (3 in the 10s but okay Smith-Warner were missing so you can discount this if you want)
Aus in 20-21 (1 in the 20s)

 

[kron]

No one cares about LOIs until it is time to flex over the captaincy of the garbage cricketer that Dhoni was or when it comes to flexing the fluke T20 World Cup that your chokers won this year.

But Dhobi is garbage????

I never rated him in tests. Pant ia light years ahead.

Stats, performance, fear factor and even wasims own quote mentions that bumrah is the superior bowler.

Yes he has had one poor performance vs nz.
So does every other great. Steyn has 2.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please stay on topic instead os trying to disrespect each other

 

[BouncerGuy]

As I mentioned many times before.

THREAD IS NOT ABOUT MCGRATH SACING ETC... CAN'T YOU GUYS SEE THE TITLE OF THE THREAd???

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Naah.

THAT Aussie team only formed in the late 90s with Hayden/Gilchrist/Langer/Martyn etc coming into the fold. Wasim played that team only once in 2000.

The 95/96 team was comparable to the team Bumrah beat in 20/21 (Great team but not the greatest of all time).

The 89/90 team was comparable to the 18/19 team (pretty weak team. McGrath, Warne, Mark Waugh etc hadn't come into the team). I would say the 18/19 team was stronger cause the bowling was still world class and they had Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, the Marshes etc.

Whatever.

Wasim played against the likes of Ponting, waugh, Gilchrist, Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden

 

[Amjid Javed]

Random bilateral series and tri series? Bumrah has won plenty of those.

Add in the Asia Cup then lol.

Bumrah has played 3 Asia Cups, won all 3 and defeated Pak in 4/4 complete matches. Would have done it twice in 2023 but rain intervened.

Wasim played 4 and won 1.

I don't consider the Asia Cup to be a serious tournament btw. But if random tri series and bilaterals are being added lol.

Random Tri-series?

What are you going on about. The Tri-series in Australia was a regular tournament played every year in Australia where they would invite two other sides to compete. Teams would pick full strength sides as well. My point was for people to say Akram didn't perform in Australia in ODIs

Also if you had read the conversation from earlier I said teams took Multitournament and bilateral ODI series more seriously back in 80s and 90s. Complete different to now, where focus is more of T20s, IPL etc.. and ODI squads for bilateral at times you get B and C team level sides picked. So gauging a teams strength is more difficult.

Bur you clearly didn't read that.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Whatever.

Wasim played against the likes of Ponting, waugh, Gilchrist, Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden

If you look back at 90s and 2000s at the batsmen Aussies had in their team and the ones who cudnt it was their strongest ever pool of batting talent

You look at Aussies now, batting Indias daddy (Travis head), the fringe Aussie or new batting options Coming through are trash.

This goes for a lot of test teams, level of new quality batsmen is at all time low.

 

[saimayubera]

Whatever.

Wasim played against the likes of Ponting, waugh, Gilchrist, Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden

Yeah and Bumrah played against Smith, Warner, Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc which are as good as those names (and all of them in the 20-21 series).

Wasim played Ponting/Gilchrist/Hayden only in 2000 where he lost 0-3.

95 it was Slater/Taylor/Boon/Healy who while being decent were not on that level and he lost 1-2

90 it was G. Marsh/Taylor/Boon/Healy/Hughes/Alderman etc which was a poor team and he lost 0-1. A really poor Indian team had drawn there a few years ago.

Aussie in the 90s were as good as the current Aussie team. He only faced the great Australians twice, one neutral/away and lost both series 0-3.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Well how can you make comment on cricket in 80s, 90s, 2000s when you were either not born or to young. Rather silly to make assumptions on quality of cricket in an era where you weren't around

Simply looking at stats tells you nothing. In any sport how it was played 20,30 years ago to now is different. So this whole cross era comparison is stupid.

I agree with you that cross era comparisons are stupid.

Ws dominated their era.
Bumrah is dominating his era.

 

[just a fan]

What's with this fascination of downplaying Bumrah by comparing him with the likes of Wasim and Waqar? Man's in the league of McGrath and Marshall

 

[saimayubera]

If you look back at 90s and 2000s at the batsmen Aussies had in their team and the ones who cudnt it was their strongest ever pool of batting talent

You look at Aussies now, batting Indias daddy (Travis head), the fringe Aussie or new batting options Coming through are trash.

This goes for a lot of test teams, level of new quality batsmen is at all time low.

Naah.

Current days Aussies are as strong as 90s Aussies.

Don't mix 90s Aussies that Wasim played most of his career against to the great Aussie team that emerged in the late 90s (with Hayden, Gilchrist, Langer, Martyn, Gillespie) and dominated till 07 (McWarne retirement).

Wasim played in Aus thrice.

90 - Weak team with a bowling lineup of Hughes, Alderman, Rackemann which is a weak bowling lineup. Batting also had guys like G. Marsh, D. Boon, Dean Jones - decent but not great batsmen and a young S.Waugh and M. Taylor with an aging A. Border. Lost 0-1

95 - Good strong team comparable to the 20-21 Aus team. A few ATGs (McGrath, Warne, S. Waugh) with some good players. Lost 1-2

00 - Truly ATG team. Lost 0-3.

New quality batsmen are "trash" cause pitches have changed.

In the 90s Australia's 2nd and 3rd pacers used to be guys like Damien Fleming, Craig McDermott, Paul Reiffel etc. Now it's Hazlewood and Starc with Cummins on par with McGrath.

 

[saimayubera]

I agree with you that cross era comparisons are stupid.

Ws dominated their era.
Bumrah is dominating his era.

Ws didn't dominate though.

They were good but their were many guys with similar stats - Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh, McGrath, Marshall for the late 80s, Hadlee for the late 80s.

In this era - only Rabada and Cummins have similar numbers and even they average more and have poorer home/away skews.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Ws didn't dominate though.

They were good but their were many guys with similar stats - Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh, McGrath, Marshall for the late 80s, Hadlee for the late 80s.

In this era - only Rabada and Cummins have similar numbers and even they average more and have poorer home/away skews.

I think they were both bigger bowlers in ODI cricket.

Also cricket is not just about numbers. When you talk about the Ws it’s the bowling average or strike rate that you remember, you remember their skill and their aggressive intent. The in swinging toe-crushing yorkers etc.

Let’s be honest, Wasim and Waqar were a vibe in the 1990s and all the kids tried to emulate their bowling action and attitude. Waqar I think used to wear wrist band and chew gums and all the kids tried to copy that. It’s those things also bro. Ws represent 90s pop culture of cricket and for that they must get all the respect from genuine fans of the game.

I take great pride in being a genuine lover of cricket and as a result the Ws, Azhar bhai, Lance Klusner, Cronje, Stewart, Jayasuriya etc will always be my heroes in cricket and I would never disrespect them by dissecting their statistics like that. That’s the most gay thing to do.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That has nothing to do with the fact that the ODI World Cup is the most prestigious white ball trophy and still far more valuable than a T20 World Cup. You can ask Rohit Sharma and the whole Indian team, who would happily give up the 2024 victory for the 2023 one.

A T20 World Cup will never compensate for an ODI World Cup. The T20 World Cup is more significant than the CT though.

Did you ask Rohit and the whole Indian team?

 

[saimayubera]

I think they were both bigger bowlers in ODI cricket.

Also cricket is not just about numbers. When you talk about the Ws it’s the bowling average or strike rate that you remember, you remember their skill and their aggressive intent. The in swinging toe-crushing yorkers etc.

Let’s be honest, Wasim and Waqar were a vibe in the 1990s and all the kids tried to emulate their bowling action and attitude. Waqar I think used to wear wrist band and chew gums and all the kids tried to copy that. It’s those things also bro. Ws represent 90s pop culture of cricket and for that they must get all the respect from genuine fans of the game.

I take great pride in being a genuine lover of cricket and as a result the Ws, Azhar bhai, Lance Klusner, Cronje, Stewart, Jayasuriya etc will always be my heroes in cricket and I would never disrespect them by dissecting their statistics like that. That’s the most gay thing to do.

Yeah ODIs they were the best but in tests were slightly lesser compared to their peers.

Tbh, only South Asians loved ODIs a lot more in the 80s and 90s hence their fame amongst desis.

The others valued tests more (some still do).

 

[saimayubera]

Did you ask Rohit and the whole Indian team?

These were the same guys doing bhangra after winning a T20 WC group game against India. They didn't even make the final of that WC.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

If you look back at 90s and 2000s at the batsmen Aussies had in their team and the ones who cudnt it was their strongest ever pool of batting talent

You look at Aussies now, batting Indias daddy (Travis head), the fringe Aussie or new batting options Coming through are trash.

This goes for a lot of test teams, level of new quality batsmen is at all time low.

Yep. And they had so many quality players who couldn't even get a game.

Stuart Law
Darren Lehman
COX

Comparing this Poor era of Test cricket, to the Golden days of the game is delusional at best.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Yeah and Bumrah played against Smith, Warner, Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc which are as good as those names (and all of them in the 20-21 series).

Wasim played Ponting/Gilchrist/Hayden only in 2000 where he lost 0-3.

95 it was Slater/Taylor/Boon/Healy who while being decent were not on that level and he lost 1-2

90 it was G. Marsh/Taylor/Boon/Healy/Hughes/Alderman etc which was a poor team and he lost 0-1. A really poor Indian team had drawn there a few years ago.

Aussie in the 90s were as good as the current Aussie team. He only faced the great Australians twice, one neutral/away and lost both series 0-3.

No way the current era of Aussies as Good as the 90's - 00's . They were the GOAT Aussy Generation. Dominated tests . Won 3 consecutive ODI World cups.

You are deluded at best.

 

[saimayubera]

No way the current era of Aussies as Good as the 90's - 00's . They were the GOAT Aussy Generation. Dominated tests . Won 3 consecutive ODI World cups.

You are deluded at best.

90s and 00s are two different teams.

They won the 3 consecutive world cups starting from 99.

Wasim's career only overlapped with the beginning of that gen as his career was ending.

90s Aussies were as good as current day Aussies. A few greats (McGrath, Warne, S Waugh then with Cummins, Hazlewood, Smith now) and a few good players (M Waugh, M Slater, M Taylor etc with T Head, M Starc, Warner etc).

They only became THAT team with Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer etc joining in the late 90s and Ponting becoming a beast.

What you are doing is revisionism. I saw that era.

90s Aussies don't even have highest W/L ratio for the decade. SA do. And it is less than current Aus too. They lost multiple series in Ind, series in SL, series in Pak, drew in WI. In the early 90s also lost in NZ and lost home series to WI. Wasim played most of his career against this Aus.

Post 99 Aus he played two test series - was whitewashed in both.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Current Aussies team is vastly overated, they have lost quite a few home series, couldn't even beat West indies at home. The Aussie record away from home with current collection of players is nothing to ride home about either.

But Indias will always use the Aussie performances then conviently gloss over the useless performances in England, New Zealand, South africa etc...

 

[saimayubera]

Current Aussies team is vastly overated, they have lost quite a few home series, couldn't even beat West indies at home. The Aussie record away from home with current collection of players is nothing to ride home about either.

But Indias will always use the Aussie performances then conviently gloss over the useless performances in England, New Zealand, South africa etc...

Lol Pakistan in it's history has NEVER won an away series against a good team.

They have been poor against SA throughout.

Useless in NZ during Hadlee, feasted during 90s/00s when they were a weak team and now poor again in Williamson era (2 consecutive whitewashes in 2016 and 2020).

Similarly in England. Useless throughout. Feasted in 80s/90s. Now useless again. Pak have won the same number of series in England as India - 3.

Pak won - 87, 92, 96
Ind won - 71, 86, 07

The 71 and 07 were strong teams unlike Pak's continuous wins against a weak team.

Pak's 80s/90s record against NZ/Eng is like Ind's record against WI post 2006. Won 5 times in 06, 11, 16, 19 and 23. Even there, Ind won against a strong WI team in 71.

Current Aus have not lost QUITE A FEW home series. Post 2017 (Cummins return) they have ONLY lost to India twice. That's it.

90s Aus lost to WI at home and lost in Pak, SL, Ind twice and drew in WI. That Aus (against whom two W's played) and current Aus are same in stature.

The brunt of the truly great Aus team was mostly faced by guys like Akhtar.

 

[Ab Fan]

Best series performances from Bumrah:-

2018-19 India tour of Australia
2020-21 India tour of England
2022-23 India tour of South Africa
2023-24 England tour of India
2024-25 India tour of Australia

Quite special performances all these and in different parts of the world.

 

[kron]

Best series performances from Bumrah:-

2018-19 India tour of Australia
2020-21 India tour of England
2022-23 India tour of South Africa
2023-24 England tour of India
2024-25 India tour of Australia

Quite special performances all these and in different parts of the world.

He needs 2 more good home performances vs say aus and SA.

And one Great performance in England next time.

Hopefully he can also correct the wrongs in nz in the near future too. Then yea he will go down as top 3/5 greats of all time. Right now top 10.

 

[Croma]

He needs 2 more good home performances vs say aus and SA.

And one Great performance in England next time.

Hopefully he can also correct the wrongs in nz in the near future too. Then yea he will go down as top 3/5 greats of all time. Right now top 10.

Why? (Some explanation would be lovely)

NZ, I agree.... I dont have any clue as to why he seriously underperforms against them in tests... (how about other formats?)

 

[jnaveen1980]

Why? (Some explanation would be lovely)

NZ, I agree.... I dont have any clue as to why he seriously underperforms against them in tests... (how about other formats?)

First time he went to NZ immediately after surgery recovery. So it was kinda expected. But recent series they cautiously played him out. I am sure he will come back. But from the past swing bowlers are more impactful against them than seam bowlers.

 

[Buffet]

Why? (Some explanation would be lovely)

50 high quality home wickets is enough to put him in the top 3-5.

He does not need 50 more away, he has done enough. You have to see it on relative basis and not simply make isolated tough criterion for one bowler.

What posters is hoping here, if Bumrah does that then he will be sure shot top 3 and a strong contender for 1st spot. A long way to go for that.

It's actually not that hard to see quality of pacers. Pacers pick wickets/outbowl opposition to win tests. Batsmen scores runs/outbat opposition to win ODI's/T20. If they take 5-fers in win when playing away then it's fantastic. Only top tier pacers have been able to do that against top 3-4 teams of thier era.

You can go through entire history and find that it's extremely rare for pacers to have good performance and 5-fers away in win in matches involving top 5 teams of their era. I listed both because some time you are lone warrior and you can't win the test, but your performance can be still quickly seen by everyone. You can limit it to 200+ career test wickets as minimum cut off to ensure some longevity.

It's too much to go through all era with screenshots, so make my point,

--------------------------------------------------------------------



In 90: Top 5 teams were,




Away 5-fers in win in matches involving top 5 teams in 90s: That's the entire list, everyone else has ZERO



Some one may point out that what about away avg without looking into 5-fers in win beacuase you may be playing for a poor team.

Away Avg of pacers in matches involving top 5 sides in 90s:





Donald, Mcgrath and Ambrose appear in top 3.

Ambrose and Mcgrath stand out in 90s when you see away avg and 5-ferts in win.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


If you do the same analysis in 80s, you will see that

Marshall and Hadlee stand out in 80s.
Steyn and Mcgrath stand out in 00s.
Bumrah and Cummins stand out in current era.


In 50 years, you have 6-7 stand out pacers. You can push for a case for 5-6 more pacers who did not stand out in either avg or 5-fers in win, but list will be still a short one. You can't come up with more than 10-12 pacers.

Older eras players were not some mythical players. We have their actual performance and impact against good teams. Honestly speaking, we had just 7-9 non-minnows in the last 50 years so top 5 teams is not too strict. If you can't have much to show in away games against good teams then you get rated lower. No one gets rated high for only stepping up against minnows or bottom teams.

 

[Buffet]

Another quick way to eliminate noise of longevity without quality[ HTBs and minnows bashers ]

If you can't have sub 27 away avg and 100 plus wickets against non-minnows then it becomes harder to say that you sureshot belong in ATG pacers list.

See below,

18 pacers with sub 27 avg against non-minnows. { I know SL was minnow till mid 90s but lets keep it simple }



Very few people will argue that these 18 bowers won't go down as an ATG pacers.

Now, many posters, like me, will make the case of Waqar to be in ATG list despite not being in this list. You may consider 1-2 more bowlers and round it up to 20 names.

It will be a solid top 20 pacers in history. Out of 20, it's very clear which names belong in the top 10 due to stepping up in tough tours.

Bumrah clears it for the top 10 test pacers. For exact position among the top 10, you have to wait to finish his career. Bumrah has a good shot for the top 5 test pacer in history and a long shot for top 3.

Some posters may say why it's a long shot and why can't he take another 100 high quiality wickets with the same output and impact? Well, history proves that it's extremely hard to do. Only handful of pacers have done it, including Bumrah. That's why expecting him to have a 2-3 more big away series is too much. If he does that and also gets 50 quality wickets at home then he clears the top 5 comfortably.

 

[Ab Fan]

Another quick way to eliminate noise of longevity without quality[ HTBs and minnows bashers ]

If you can't have sub 27 away avg and 100 plus wickets against non-minnows then it becomes harder to say that you sureshot belong in ATG pacers list.

See below,

18 pacers with sub 27 avg against non-minnows. { I know SL was minnow till mid 90s but lets keep it simple }

View attachment 148866

Very few people will argue that these 18 bowers won't go down as an ATG pacers.

Now, many posters, like me, will make the case of Waqar to be in ATG list despite not being in this list. You may consider 1-2 more bowlers and round it up to 20 names.

It will be a solid top 20 pacers in history. Out of 20, it's very clear which names belong in the top 10 due to stepping up in tough tours.

Bumrah clears it for the top 10 test pacers. For exact position among the top 10, you have to wait to finish his career. Bumrah has a good shot for the top 5 test pacer in history and a long shot for top 3.

Some posters may say why it's a long shot and why can't he take another 100 high quiality wickets with the same output and impact? Well, history proves that it's extremely hard to do. Only handful of pacers have done it, including Bumrah. That's why expecting him to have a 2-3 more big away series is too much. If he does that and also gets 50 quality wickets at home then he clears the top 5 comfortably.

Where is Waqar in this list?

 

[Buffet]

Where is Waqar in this list?

I jsut cut it off for sub 27 away avg. Waqar is not far below. If you relax the criterion to include waqar by going till 27.60 avg then Waqar appears in the list. Total 30 bowlers in entire history have 100+ away wickets with sub 27.60 avg against non-minnows.



All bowlers in entire history with sub 27.60 away avg against non-minnows { Yes, SL was a minnow till mid 90s, but it keeps it simple }

 

[saimayubera]

50 high quality home wickets is enough to put him in the top 3-5.

He does not need 50 more away, he has done enough. You have to see it on relative basis and not simply make isolated tough criterion for one bowler.

What posters is hoping here, if Bumrah does that then he will be sure shot top 3 and a strong contender for 1st spot. A long way to go for that.

It's actually not that hard to see quality of pacers. Pacers pick wickets/outbowl opposition to win tests. Batsmen scores runs/outbat opposition to win ODI's/T20. If they take 5-fers in win when playing away then it's fantastic. Only top tier pacers have been able to do that against top 3-4 teams of thier era.

You can go through entire history and find that it's extremely rare for pacers to have good performance and 5-fers away in win in matches involving top 5 teams of their era. I listed both because some time you are lone warrior and you can't win the test, but your performance can be still quickly seen by everyone. You can limit it to 200+ career test wickets as minimum cut off to ensure some longevity.

It's too much to go through all era with screenshots, so make my point,

--------------------------------------------------------------------



In 90: Top 5 teams were,

View attachment 148857


Away 5-fers in win in matches involving top 5 teams in 90s: That's the entire list, everyone else has ZERO

View attachment 148858

Some one may point out that what about away avg without looking into 5-fers in win beacuase you may be playing for a poor team.

Away Avg of pacers in matches involving top 5 sides in 90s:

View attachment 148860



Donald, Mcgrath and Ambrose appear in top 3.

Ambrose and Mcgrath stand out in 90s when you see away avg and 5-ferts in win.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


If you do the same analysis in 80s, you will see that

Marshall and Hadlee stand out in 80s.
Steyn and Mcgrath stand out in 00s.
Bumrah and Cummins stand out in current era.


In 50 years, you have 6-7 stand out pacers. You can push for a case for 5-6 more pacers who did not stand out in either avg or 5-fers in win, but list will be still a short one. You can't come up with more than 10-12 pacers.

Older eras players were not some mythical players. We have their actual performance and impact against good teams. Honestly speaking, we had just 7-9 non-minnows in the last 50 years so top 5 teams is not too strict. If you can't have much to show in away games against good teams then you get rated lower. No one gets rated high for only stepping up against minnows or bottom teams.

If you apply similar criteria, where does Siraj rank?

He has 2 5fers in wins against strong teams (Brisbane 2021 and Cape Town 2024)

 

[saimayubera]

Best series performances from Bumrah:-

2018-19 India tour of Australia
2020-21 India tour of England
2022-23 India tour of South Africa
2023-24 England tour of India
2024-25 India tour of Australia

Quite special performances all these and in different parts of the world.

2023-24 tour of SA. He was good in 2022-23 but so was a lot of bowlers. 23-24 he was MoS.

3 in the past one year.

 

[Buffet]

If you apply similar criteria, where does Siraj rank?

He has 2 5-fers in wins against strong teams (Brisbane 2021 and Cape Town 2024)

I was applying filter for 5-fers in win away for bowlers meeting certain criterion when comparing those bowlers.

I think quick short cut for pacers should be,

• Sub 25 avg against non-minnows with 150 plus wickets. -- Around 20 pacers.
• Sub 27 away avg against non-minnows with 100 wickets -- Around 20 pacers. Then you look for,
• Performance and impact in tough tours to get to best of the best for pacers who pass both filters.

First two criterion get rid of noise coming from minnow bashers and HTBs. Last criterion gets you impactful pacers among those ATGs and they are comfortably the best pacers in history. You can sure look for exceptions, but pacers matching the first two filters in the last 50-55 years will be usually ATGs. If you apply the third filter on them, you are looking at the top 10 pacers more or less.


Siraj won't pass the initial filters right now in either volume or avg. He is similar to Hoggard who I remember picking 5-fers in win twice in Johannesburg but had career avg of near 30. Hoggard will pass the initial filter of 100/150 career/away wickets without matching quality. Siraj has plenty to go to reach 100/150 away/career wickets.

I meant bowlers in the same tiers should be compared for the 3rd factor in the list. I am not going to rate Hoggard higher than Wasim despite Wasim having zero away 5-fers in win in matches involving top 5 teams of his era and Hoggard having few of them. We can't take the 3rd factor in isolation to rank pacers.

 

[saimayubera]

I was applying filter for 5-fers in win away for bowlers meeting certain criterion when comparing those bowlers.

I think quick short cut for pacers should be,

• Sub 25 avg against non-minnows with 150 plus wickets. -- Around 20 pacers.
• Sub 27 away avg against non-minnows with 100 wickets -- Around 20 pacers. Then you look for,
• Performance and impact in tough tours to get to best of the best for pacers who pass both filters.

First two criterion get rid of noise coming from minnow bashers and HTBs. Last criterion gets you impactful pacers among those ATGs and they are comfortably the best pacers in history. You can sure look for exceptions, but pacers matching the first two filters in the last 50-55 years will be usually ATGs. If you apply the third filter on them, you are looking at the top 10 pacers more or less.


Siraj won't pass the initial filters right now in either volume or avg. He is similar to Hoggard who I remember picking 5-fers in win twice in Johannesburg but had career avg of near 30. Hoggard will pass the initial filter of 100/150 career/away wickets without matching quality. Siraj has plenty to go to reach 100/150 away/career wickets.

I meant bowlers in the same tiers should be compared for the 3rd factor in the list. I am not going to rate Hoggard higher than Wasim despite Wasim having zero away 5-fers in win in matches involving top 5 teams of his era and Hoggard having few of them. We can't take the 3rd factor in isolation to rank pacers.

Still, Siraj having a couple while Wasim, Waqar, Imran etc having ZERO is a damning statistic.

 

[Buffet]

Still, Siraj having a couple while Wasim, Waqar, Imran etc having ZERO is a damning statistic.

IK does have one in WI. Wasim and Waqar have ZERO 5-fers in away wins in match involving top 5 teams of their era. IK had a far less support.

2 Ws had - Mushtaq, Saqlain, Anwar, Inzzy, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar playing in 90s. One of the best duo of pacers in history, playing with a very good team and yet combined having zero 5-fers in away win involving top 5 test teams. That's poor.

Tests are won by outbowling and ODis by outbatting oppositions. I wouldn't hold it against great pacers if they were lone warrior like Hadlee. Hadlee did what Bumrah is doing in Aus as a lone warrior, so not putting Hadlee down at all. Hadlee makes a strong case for top 5 tests pacers.

Forget about 5-fers in win. You can see the list of bolwers who actually did well playing away in matches involving top 5 teams during 2 Ws career. Before some one starts talking golden era or era beign tough for bowlers, Ambrose & McGrath did very well and many others avg sub 25. Wasim avg near 27 and Waqar average 31-32. Not impressive at all.

Away avg of bowlers from 1985-2003 in matches involving top 5 test teams in the same period:




That's why I always feel,

• Longevity is good with some minimum cut off for quality. [ Top 20 pacers ]
• Quality is better with some minimum cut off for longevity. [ Top 10 pacers ]
• Quality with longevity is the best. [ Top 5 pacers ]

Bumrah is right now in middle for me. Needs to do more to move into the next bracket.

 

[kron]

IK does have one in WI. Wasim and Waqar have ZERO 5-fers in away wins in match involving top 5 teams of their era. IK had a far less support.

2 Ws had - Mushtaq, Saqlain, Anwar, Inzzy, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar playing in 90s. One of the best duo of pacers in history, playing with a very good team and yet combined having zero 5-fers in away win involving top 5 test teams. That's poor.

Tests are won by outbowling and ODis by outbatting oppositions. I wouldn't hold it against great pacers if they were lone warrior like Hadlee. Hadlee did what Bumrah is doing in Aus as a lone warrior, so not putting Hadlee down at all. Hadlee makes a strong case for top 5 tests pacers.

Forget about 5-fers in win. You can see the list of bolwers who actually did well playing away in matches involving top 5 teams during 2 Ws career. Before some one starts talking golden era or era beign tough for bowlers, Ambrose & McGrath did very well and many others avg sub 25. Wasim avg near 27 and Waqar average 31-32. Not impressive at all.

Away avg of bowlers from 1985-2003 in matches involving top 5 test teams in the same period:

View attachment 148882


That's why I always feel,

• Longevity is good with some minimum cut off for quality. [ Top 20 pacers ]
• Quality is better with some minimum cut off for longevity. [ Top 10 pacers ]
• Quality with longevity is the best. [ Top 5 pacers ]

Bumrah is right now in middle for me. Needs to do more to move into the next bracket.

5fers shouldn't be the main criteria. Mcgrath dint have many 5fers but it doesn't mean he isn't the greatest of all time or atleast amongst top 3 of all time.

Fear factor, impact, helping his team win games is what matters.

Mcgrath in that aus team made them who they were. Without mcg they were only 60% as effective.

 

[Buffet]

5fers shouldn't be the main criteria.

It's not the main, that's why I listed avg away against the top teams before that. Not having any just stands out.

Avg away and 5-fers in win shows the impact and how much they helped their team win against top sides.

Also, McGrath does have 3 5-fers in win in 90s against WI. WI was still among the top sides in 90s. Then his average is very good in away matches against top sides. That's why he is rated near the top and for me the top 3 test pacers. Now if you don't have single 5-fers in away win in matches involving top 5 sides and also have away avg of 27-31 then it's a negative when others have done much better in same period.

Oh, I just noticed that previous posts were shifted in this thread. Mods shifted it rigtly because we started doing some comparison in other thread. Since, I promised to not comment more on this thread, I will stop here.

 

[KP From India]

The

90s and 00s are two different teams.

They won the 3 consecutive world cups starting from 99.

Wasim's career only overlapped with the beginning of that gen as his career was ending.

90s Aussies were as good as current day Aussies. A few greats (McGrath, Warne, S Waugh then with Cummins, Hazlewood, Smith now) and a few good players (M Waugh, M Slater, M Taylor etc with T Head, M Starc, Warner etc).

They only became THAT team with Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer etc joining in the late 90s and Ponting becoming a beast.

What you are doing is revisionism. I saw that era.

90s Aussies don't even have highest W/L ratio for the decade. SA do. And it is less than current Aus too. They lost multiple series in Ind, series in SL, series in Pak, drew in WI. In the early 90s also lost in NZ and lost home series to WI. Wasim played most of his career against this Aus.

Post 99 Aus he played two test series - was whitewashed in both.

They won 1999 WC but not that convincing.
In 03 and 07, absolutely no chance for the opposition.

 

[Shafikapeo]

This is what Greg Chappel wrote:

Dennis Lillee and Andy Roberts were the best fast bowlers I faced. Bumrah combines the best of both

The Indian pace spearhead combines Lillee’s ability to dictate terms and unsettle batsmen with the cerebral approach of Roberts. If Australia can best him, they will win the Border-Gavaskar Trophy.

www.smh.com.au

Do you feel that Bumrah is better/at par/below than Wasim or Waqar (in their respective primes)?

Setting aside blind devotion and speaking rationally, I would rank Bumrah on par with Glenn McGrath. In the modern era, achieving prominence as a pace bowler is incredibly challenging. The rules of cricket are heavily skewed in favor of batsmen, with high-scoring pitches being the norm, and the omnipresence of cameras making ball tampering virtually impossible. Honestly, I don’t believe Wasim Akram or Waqar Younis would have been able to maintain an average below 22 under today’s conditions.

 

[Ab Fan]

What a phenomenal year Bumrah has had!

Tests - 12
Wickets - 62
Avg - 14

He has one more to play. But this is literally the year he needed. He started with a 6-fer in South Africa followed by a massively successful home series vs England and superb performances in ongoing Australia tour. Obviously his trophy winning standout performance in World T20 2024 can’t be forgotten. It has been a phenomenal year for him and I would nominate him as my cricketer of the year.

 

[DTrump]

Bumrah has breached the 900 ratings barrier in the recently updated ICC Rankings. 26th bowler to do so.

Whichever way you look at it, this lad is definitely special. If he can hold his current form for 2-3 years he will end up being a top 5 bowler of all time.

It's not an insult peeps. Even if Bumrah ends up being the best ever it won't make other ATGs lesser in any way. They all left a mark on this game.

Smith is better than Punter.
Punter was better than Waugh, Border.

This is how sport works.

 

[saimayubera]

Bumrah has breached the 900 ratings barrier in the recently updated ICC Rankings. 26th bowler to do so.

Whichever way you look at it, this lad is definitely special. If he can hold his current form for 2-3 years he will end up being a top 5 bowler of all time.

It's not an insult peeps. Even if Bumrah ends up being the best ever it won't make other ATGs lesser in any way. They all left a mark on this game.

Smith is better than Punter.
Punter was better than Waugh, Border.

This is how sport works.

I think the sticky point for a lot of Pakistanis is that Bumrah is a pacer.

If Bumrah was a spinner with that record, they wouldn’t have felt as bad. If his record was slightly inferior - hazlewood level say, even then they wouldn’t have felt bad.

A lot of Pakistani cricket pride is on having had great fast bowlers and India having none.

Now Bumrah is not only a great fast bowler, statistically he is better than their best fast bowlers and has achieved things in his short career that the others couldn’t.

This is a source of great hurt. Having the best Asian fast bowler is different than having 2,3 and 4.

Imagine Babar having Smith’s record and Pakistanis comparing him with Tendulkar, Dravid etc as he was coming up lol. Indians would be pissed cause there would be merit to their arguments.

 

[DTrump]

This is the greatest fast bowler of all time.

Maybe not in absolute numbers but the game has never seen a freak like this.

 

[Pakpak]

This is the greatest fast bowler of all time.

Maybe not in absolute numbers but the game has never seen a freak like this.

He chucks. Can never be taken seriously. Sorry to say.

 

[DTrump]

He chucks. Can never be taken seriously. Sorry to say.

That is copium of the highest level.
Sorry to say.

 

[syedfaraz5]

He chucks. Can never be taken seriously. Sorry to say.

Fully agreed 100%

 

[Pakpak]

 

[Pakpak]

Khan was insane. Also averaged 50 with the bat.
This was Waqar's peak too, on dead pitches.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bumrah has hit the kind of peak rating that Wasim Akram could only dream of.

904 vs 830.

Very similar to peak Waqar who was around 909.

Wasim was more of a steady bowler with no real impact compare to the truly elite bowlers.

A great but severely overrated

 

[Mamoon]

Bumrah gave Lyon a stare down after bowling him, even though, his leg side line helped Lyon and Boland string together a 61 run partnership for the last wicket that killed off India's hopes of winning the Test. It was absolutely embarrassing.

Bumrah's no ball and poor control in the last half hour of day 4 is not getting enough coverage because he is Mr. Untouchable for Indian cricket right now, but he has as responsible as any other bowler for letting the last pair forge a partnership. His bowling to Lyon and Boland on day 4 was pure filth.

He is a top bowler no doubt at all, but there is a very significant choke gene in his blood that has surfaced every single time apart from the 2024 WC Final.

 

[RexRex]

View attachment 149127

^ More evidence of how overrated Akram was.

 

[riddu]

Fully agreed 100%

why he is being compared to greats... chucker should be booted out

 

[kron]

^ More evidence of how overrated Akram was.

Waqar was overrated too. Ball tamperer. He demolished some weak teams. In his peak.

Would still say wssim is the best from pakistan overall

But clearly all 3 are below bumrah

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bumrah is just trailing Wasim. Even though Imran was also great but not gonna bring him in this talk.

Bumrah is just gonna cross Wasim based on his longevity otherwise Wasim is 1 step ahead but BUMRAH IS CLASS;

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bumrah is just trailing Wasim. Even though Imran was also great but not gonna bring him in this talk.

Bumrah is just gonna cross Wasim based on his longevity otherwise Wasim is 1 step ahead but BUMRAH IS CLASS;

100 more wickets at similar figures and Bumrah would be ahead Wasim Akram.

 

[BouncerGuy]

100 more wickets at similar figures and Bumrah would be ahead Wasim Akram.

No doubts brother. That is why I said longevity.. He definitely is the best one in the world right now though...Simply sensational.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No doubts brother. That is why I said longevity.. He definitely is the best one in the world right now though...Simply sensational.

Let's see. He is 31. Hopefully BCCI manages him well in the next 6 months.

He will have one month off after Sydney.

Then the CT and IPL.

The England series starts 20th June. It's a very long series.

Let's see when he gets rested.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah is just trailing Wasim. Even though Imran was also great but not gonna bring him in this talk.

Bumrah is just gonna cross Wasim based on his longevity otherwise Wasim is 1 step ahead but BUMRAH IS CLASS;

But he hasn’t performed in home conditions vs all teams or particularly top teams enough.

Need to deliver home performance vs Australia and South Africa to reach the level of Wasim.

 

[cricketjoshila]

But he hasn’t performed in home conditions vs all teams or particularly top teams enough.

Need to deliver home performance vs Australia and South Africa to reach the level of Wasim.

He hasn't played them at home. Has he?