How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

[Ab Fan]

He hasn't played them at home. Has he?

He got injured so he missed those two series. I want to see him bowl more on Asian pitches especially since Ashwin has retired.

 

[Pakpak]

Bumrah is just trailing Wasim. Even though Imran was also great but not gonna bring him in this talk.

Bumrah is just gonna cross Wasim based on his longevity otherwise Wasim is 1 step ahead but BUMRAH IS CLASS;

Wasim had nearly 700 wickets, Bumrah barely has 300. There is no way Bumrah crosses Wasim on any longevity. Wasim did it over two decades, on dead tracks while Bumrah plays on pitches completely made for India in India and then helpful tracks abroad.

And to add, none of the bowlers on that list I posted had questionable actions.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

View attachment 149127

Imran was the daddy of all sub continent fast bowlers

 

[Ted123]

He will surpass Wasim in Tests easily. Wasim was a good bowler playing in great team but underachieved in Tests.
Bumrah is a great bowler playing in a mediocre team and seems way above everyone else.

All formats combined, Wasim is ahead in my opinion and Bumrah will have to win World Cup Final to go past him or McGrath.

 

[Advaith]

Wasim had nearly 700 wickets, Bumrah barely has 300. There is no way Bumrah crosses Wasim on any longevity. Wasim did it over two decades, on dead tracks while Bumrah plays on pitches completely made for India in India and then helpful tracks abroad.

And to add, none of the bowlers on that list I posted had questionable actions.

Jaspreet bumrah has 440 international wickets, wasim have more than 800 wickets..This year he has 86 wickets in all format , another four years if he averages 60 wickets per year he will cross 700 international wickets mark ..

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bumrah has 203 wickets with the red ball and 238 wickets with the white ball.

100 test wickets with the same figures and he will be hailed as a ATG.

Same with white ball.

And some people don't realise that Indian pitches are made for spinners not Bumrah.

What desperation!!!!

 

[Hitman]

Bumrah has 203 wickets with the red ball and 238 wickets with the white ball.

100 test wickets with the same figures and he will be hailed as a ATG.

Same with white ball.

And some people don't realise that Indian pitches are made for spinners not Bumrah.

What desperation!!!!

Funny a lot of Pak posters on PP consider Shoaib Akhtar a legend with 177 Test wickets

The less said about his performance against Australia and India, the top 2 batting line ups of his time, the better.

 

[Farabi]

Funny a lot of Pak posters on PP consider Shoaib Akhtar a legend with 177 Test wickets

The less aid about his performance against Australia and India, the top 2 batting line ups of his time, the better.

There are drama movies, action movies, comedy movies, and classics. You cannot compare like that.

Shoaib Akhtar was more than cricket. He was one and only. He cannot be compared with anyone.

 

[Ted123]

Bumrah has 203 wickets with the red ball and 238 wickets with the white ball.

100 test wickets with the same figures and he will be hailed as a ATG.

Same with white ball.

And some people don't realise that Indian pitches are made for spinners not Bumrah.

What desperation!!!!

I think he is already an ATG because only 4 Asian pacers in the history of game have 200 test wickets at average under 25.

Bumrah’s wickets tally includes an impressive number of wickets vs Australia and England which is why he has done enough to get rated in that league. How far he can go will be decided as his career elongates.

 

[Ted123]

There are drama movies, action movies, comedy movies, and classics. You cannot compare like that.

Shoaib Akhtar was more than cricket. He was one and only. He cannot be compared with anyone.

This seems more like a nostalgia than a fact.

There are many players who have come,contributed in changing the way the game is played and have entertained the world around and got admired for their skills set. Shahid Afridi was one of them too.

 

[Hitman]

There are drama movies, action movies, comedy movies, and classics. You cannot compare like that.

Shoaib Akhtar was more than cricket. He was one and only. He cannot be compared with anyone.

Yea, don't think anyone else apart from him and Asif were banned for injecting themselves with nandrolone.

 

[Rajdeep]

Let's see. He is 31. Hopefully BCCI manages him well in the next 6 months.

He will have one month off after Sydney.

Then the CT and IPL.

The England series starts 20th June. It's a very long series.

Let's see when he gets rested.

I hope Bumrah don't play CT. It is a meaningless tournament and we have enough white ball bowlers. No need to stretch Bumrah. I also wanted him to rest in IPL and come fresh straight in England tour. But we know he can't skip IPL.

 

[Farabi]

Bumrah is a world-class pacer, firmly among the top 4-5 of this generation. At the moment, he’s at his peak, but as always, form and fitness will ebb and flow, with players like Cummins, Hazlewood, and Rabada providing fierce competition.

For India, Bumrah is a revelation—their first true fast bowler in decades, finally filling a void I’ve noticed over 25 years of watching Indian cricket.

Comparing across generations is pointless. In their era, Wasim and Waqar were undoubtedly among the top five pacers.

If you can consistently stay in the top 4-5 of your generation, you’re a GOAT. That’s as far as you can go here. Everything else is just ego and chest-thumping.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Funny a lot of Pak posters on PP consider Shoaib Akhtar a legend with 177 Test wickets

The less said about his performance against Australia and India, the top 2 batting line ups of his time, the better.

If Asif with 106 test wickets can be compared to McGrath, Akhtar atleast has 177.

 

[Farabi]

This seems more like a nostalgia than a fact.

There are many players who have come,contributed in changing the way the game is played and have entertained the world around and got admired for their skills set. Shahid Afridi was one of them too.

Cricket is entertainment, not a 9-5 job with profits, losses, and spreadsheets. Shoaib Akhtar wasn’t just a bowler, he was an experience—his pace, personality, and antics made him truly unique.

Pakistan has produced three larger-than-life cricketers: Shahid Afridi, Imran Khan, and Shoaib Akhtar.

It’s interesting you mention Afridi—his influence was huge. Without him, KPK and Afghan cricket might not have gained the passion for cricket they have today.

 

[Farabi]

Yea, don't think anyone else apart from him and Asif were banned for injecting themselves with nandrolone.

Haha bad boys of cricket! Definitely, the guys your parents warn you about

Mohammad Abbas is the Asif you can introduce to your family.

 

[Ted123]

Cricket is entertainment, not a 9-5 job with profits, losses, and spreadsheets. Shoaib Akhtar wasn’t just a bowler, he was an experience—his pace, personality, and antics made him truly unique.

Pakistan has produced three larger-than-life cricketers: Shahid Afridi, Imran Khan, and Shoaib Akhtar.

It’s interesting you mention Afridi—his influence was huge. Without him, KPK and Afghan cricket might not have gained the passion for cricket they have today.

Then you shouldn’t say Shoaib is beyond cricket because every team has such larger than life cricketers. You already mentioned 3 for Pakistan.

Ultimately ,Shoaib will be rated for his output and obviously context will be valued but not these over the top reasonings because it could be used for many such non deserving cricketers.

 

[Farabi]

Then you shouldn’t say Shoaib is beyond cricket because every team has such larger than life cricketers. You already mentioned 3 for Pakistan.

Ultimately ,Shoaib will be rated for his output and obviously context will be valued but not these over the top reasonings because it could be used for many such non deserving cricketers.

I am not stopping anyone from doing what they want to do. Take out your calculators and spreadsheets and get to work.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Stay on topic please

 

[Ted123]

In the early 90s, Sri Lanka emerged as a cricket nation from Asia. Both India and Pakistan played a lot of games against them and since they were minnows, they boosted their stats a bit against them.

Pakistan were not a better side to Aus and SA in first half of 90s too while India were at same level as England and slightly better than NZ but they boosted their stats by bashing minnow SL till 1995 and ended with better W/L ratio than they deserved to be.

SL became good by 1995 and now they didn’t allowed India and Pakistan to do minnow bashing anymore. Both sides overall output took a hit between 1995-2000.

Wasim, Waqar and Tendulkar boosted their stats by playing a lot of games vs SL otherwise they were not better than their contemporaries.

 

[Ted123]

I am not stopping anyone from doing what they want to do. Take out your calculators and spreadsheets and get to work.

Probably true because you cant view every single cricketer in the world with the same way. That’s why you have to watch the game and then also take spreadsheets and calculator and do the complete analysis. It requires you to do both things.

 

[emranabbas]

He first needs to sort out his ugly run up and dodgy bowling action before he can be compered to greats

 

[Farabi]

Probably true because you cant view every single cricketer in the world with the same way. That’s why you have to watch the game and then also take spreadsheets and calculator and do the complete analysis. It requires you to do both things.

This analysis misses the real point—it’s not just about averages or wickets, it’s about *vibes*! Cricket is entertainment, and the true measure is how many fans drop everything to tune in. Anyone here tracking GRPs or TRPs?

I’d bet both my legs (and maybe an arm) that people cleared their schedules to watch Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar. Misbah might have five times Afridi’s average, but when it comes to turning heads and stopping hearts, Misbah doesn’t even make the highlights reel!

 

[Advaith]

I hope Bumrah don't play CT. It is a meaningless tournament and we have enough white ball bowlers. No need to stretch Bumrah. I also wanted him to rest in IPL and come fresh straight in England tour. But we know he can't skip IPL.

No he need to play every icc tourney ..He need another ICC trophy in his resume..Test matches are important, so is ICC tournies...At the end of the day his contribution in icc tournies will be remembered as his exploits in major test series..

 

[Ab Fan]

Bumrah needs to just not decline like Kohli did. Rest he has done enough.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He first needs to sort out his ugly run up and dodgy bowling action before he can be compered to greats

His action is legal and his run up is fine for him.

He takes wickets by not giving too many runs and doesn't take too many balls to do so. That's why he is in the team.

 

[mominsaigol]

He will surpass Wasim in Tests easily. Wasim was a good bowler playing in great team but underachieved in Tests.
Bumrah is a great bowler playing in a mediocre team and seems way above everyone else.

All formats combined, Wasim is ahead in my opinion and Bumrah will have to win World Cup Final to go past him or McGrath.

Bumrah has a 45 avg vs NZ while wasim doesn't avg 40+ against any team and you're claiming he'll easily go >>>> Wasim?

Wasim dominated for 2 decades on flat tracks with facing far superior test batters?

The best test batter of this era is Joe root considering steve smith fizzled out?

I repeat root is the best batter of this era which shows how crap the test batters of this era compares to the old?

Indians need to stop overglorfying everything.

 

[Advaith]

Bumrah has a 45 avg vs NZ while wasim doesn't avg 40+ against any team and you're claiming he'll easily go >>>> Wasim?

Wasim dominated for 2 decades on flat tracks with facing far superior test batters?

The best test batter of this era is Joe root considering steve smith fizzled out?

I repeat root is the best batter of this era which shows how crap the test batters of this era compares to the old?

Indians need to stop overglorfying everything.

Wasim akram was average bowler against good quality team in his era ..
Career Averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
overview	1985-2002	104	181	3771.1	871	9779	414	7/119	11/110	23.62	2.59	54.6	25	5

vs Team

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
vs Australia	1990-1999	13	21	498.2	102	1288	50	6/62	11/160	25.76	2.58	59.8	4	1
vs Bangladesh	2001-2002	2	3	21.4	4	54	0	-	-	-	2.49	-	0	0
vs England	1987-2001	18	30	663.4	150	1748	57	6/67	9/103	30.66	2.63	69.8	2	0
vs India	1987-1999	12	21	488.0	104	1299	45	5/96	7/142	28.86	2.66	65.0	2	0
vs New Zealand	1985-1995	9	17	421.0	106	1021	60	7/119	11/179	17.01	2.42	42.1	6	2
vs South Africa	1995-1998	4	7	141.0	35	387	13	4/42	5/88	29.76	2.74	65.0	0	0
vs Sri Lanka	1985-2000	19	32	545.4	152	1340	63	5/43	8/73	21.26	2.45	51.9	3	0
vs West Indies	1986-2000	17	32	591.4	121	1645	79	6/61	11/110	20.82	2.78	44.9	4	1
vs Zimbabwe	1993-1998	10	18	400.1	97	997	47	6/48	10/106	21.21

 

[Advaith]

Bumrah has a 45 avg vs NZ while wasim doesn't avg 40+ against any team and you're claiming he'll easily go >>>> Wasim?

Wasim dominated for 2 decades on flat tracks with facing far superior test batters?

The best test batter of this era is Joe root considering steve smith fizzled out?

I repeat root is the best batter of this era which shows how crap the test batters of this era compares to the old?

Indians need to stop overglorfying everything.

He averages around 29 against best 4 teams of that era ...

 

[mominsaigol]

He averages around 29 against best 4 teams of that era ...

None of that will change the fact that wasim retired woth 414 wickets followed by 23 avg in test followed by notable having a 45 avg stain againat any team.

Bumrah needs to fix that 45 red flag vs NZ and actually win an odi cup or atleast keep his own performance up in odi cups. Since he has terrible numbers in crunch moments

 

[JaDed]

Wasim had nearly 700 wickets, Bumrah barely has 300. There is no way Bumrah crosses Wasim on any longevity. Wasim did it over two decades, on dead tracks while Bumrah plays on pitches completely made for India in India and then helpful tracks abroad.

And to add, none of the bowlers on that list I posted had questionable actions.

If thats the case for Wasim that he bowled on dead pitches , then Indian batsmen’s stats should also be seen along similar lines, where Bumrah is getting helpful pitches other bowlers are as well, so Kohli with his mediocre average is better than any Pakistani batsman?
Atleast have some consistency in logic for batsmen and bowlers if pitches are more bowling friendly now.

 

[mominsaigol]

If thats the case for Wasim that he bowled on dead pitches , then Indian batsmen’s stats should also be seen along similar lines, where Bumrah is getting helpful pitches other bowlers are as well, so Kohli with his mediocre average is better than any Pakistani batsman?
Atleast have some consistency in logic for batsmen and bowlers if pitches are more bowling friendly now.

Wasim has also won an odi cup for his country followed by never avg 45 against any team in test cricket.

Atm he has nearly 2.5X the number of test and odi wickets, followed by 5 10 wicket hauls + 25 5 wicket hauls in test cricket.

Bumrah has 0 10 wicket hauls, and a horrific avg againat NZ.

To top it off while that 19avg is very impressive, he's 31, will turn 32 in 2025 and will keep aging and will likely decline as pacers do. Pollock and mcgrath are exceptions for obvious reasons.

For Bumrah to be in contention he needs many many more wickets, followed by a few 10 wicket hauls, followed by improving that 45 avg against NZ, followed by maintaining consistency for a few more years and not fizzle put like kohli and Steve smith, followed by not chocking non stop in odi events.

Bumrah is class, but Indians need to cool it on ranking people as no 1 for virtually no reason.

 

[JaDed]

Wasim has also won an odi cup for his country followed by never avg 45 against any team in test cricket.

Atm he has nearly 2.5X the number of test and odi wickets, followed by 5 10 wicket hauls + 25 5 wicket hauls in test cricket.

Bumrah has 0 10 wicket hauls, and a horrific avg againat NZ.

To top it off while that 19avg is very impressive, he's 31, will turn 32 in 2025 and will keep aging and will likely decline as pacers do. Pollock and mcgrath are exceptions for obvious reasons.

For Bumrah to be in contention he needs many many more wickets, followed by a few 10 wicket hauls, followed by improving that 45 avg against NZ, followed by maintaining consistency for a few more years and not fizzle put like kohli and Steve smith, followed by not chocking non stop in odi events.

Bumrah is class, but Indians need to cool it on ranking people as no 1 for virtually no reason.

My point is only on the basis used for comparison, I have already said Wasim is greater and will definitely end up greater.

 

[Advaith]

None of that will change the fact that wasim retired woth 414 wickets followed by 23 avg in test followed by notable having a 45 avg stain againat any team.

Bumrah needs to fix that 45 red flag vs NZ and actually win an odi cup or atleast keep his own performance up in odi cups. Since he has terrible numbers in crunch moments

None of that will change the fact that he was an average bowler against best four teams of his entire career..He can't fix that now.

 

[mominsaigol]

None of that will change the fact that he was an average bowler against best four teams of his entire career..He can't fix that now.

Well hopefully Bumrah can fix that 45 avg, pick up a few 10 wicket hauls and improve his choke status in odi knockouts.

Let's hope and pray and keep our fingers crossed.

 

[IMMY69]

Bumrah is just trailing Wasim. Even though Imran was also great but not gonna bring him in this talk.

Bumrah is just gonna cross Wasim based on his longevity otherwise Wasim is 1 step ahead but BUMRAH IS CLASS;

How so?
how would Wasim be doing in todays world with a central contract, trainers, dieticians etc etc?

 

[Advaith]

How so?
how would Wasim be doing in todays world with a central contract, trainers, dieticians etc etc?

How would bumrah be doing in 90s world batsman without a central contact, trainers, dieticians etc etc ? That sword is double edged right??

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Wasim akram was average bowler against good quality team in his era ..
Career Averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
overview	1985-2002	104	181	3771.1	871	9779	414	7/119	11/110	23.62	2.59	54.6	25	5

vs Team

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
vs Australia	1990-1999	13	21	498.2	102	1288	50	6/62	11/160	25.76	2.58	59.8	4	1
vs Bangladesh	2001-2002	2	3	21.4	4	54	0	-	-	-	2.49	-	0	0
vs England	1987-2001	18	30	663.4	150	1748	57	6/67	9/103	30.66	2.63	69.8	2	0
vs India	1987-1999	12	21	488.0	104	1299	45	5/96	7/142	28.86	2.66	65.0	2	0
vs New Zealand	1985-1995	9	17	421.0	106	1021	60	7/119	11/179	17.01	2.42	42.1	6	2
vs South Africa	1995-1998	4	7	141.0	35	387	13	4/42	5/88	29.76	2.74	65.0	0	0
vs Sri Lanka	1985-2000	19	32	545.4	152	1340	63	5/43	8/73	21.26	2.45	51.9	3	0
vs West Indies	1986-2000	17	32	591.4	121	1645	79	6/61	11/110	20.82	2.78	44.9	4	1
vs Zimbabwe	1993-1998	10	18	400.1	97	997	47	6/48	10/106	21.21

Much much stronger Era .

 

[aboveandbeyond]

How so?
how would Wasim be doing in todays world with a central contract, trainers, dieticians etc etc?

Wasim would destroy these hacks of today. Theres only a handful of Top top batsman in world cricket today, and when you compare that to the batsma of wasims era, lol, it's laughable.

 

[Technics 1210]

Indians fans have Bumrah left to cling too. Everything else has been an abject failure. From failing to win ICC finals, to superstars bottling it on the biggest stage.

Wasim was not only a left handed bowler but his action was legit. Bumrah can take another 1000 wickets but he will remain a chucker until his action is cleared.

But as said, with everything that has failed, a chucker is India's last ditch hope for any semblance of respect.

 

[IMMY69]

How would bumrah be doing in 90s world batsman without a central contact, trainers, dieticians etc etc ? That sword is double edged right??

Chances are He wouldn't have even made it to international cricket

 

[Advaith]

Chances are He wouldn't have even made it to international cricket

Logic dies a tragic death infront of your arguments..think before talking dear..

 

[IMMY69]

Logic dies a tragic death infront of your arguments..think before talking dear..

I'm sorry but you think Bumrah would have made it in the 80's?
His action would have been called long before making it to international cricket and no one would have heard of him.

Try explaining hyperextension to cricket coaches in the 80's

 

[mominsaigol]

How would bumrah be doing in 90s world batsman without a central contact, trainers, dieticians etc etc ? That sword is double edged right??

In 90's hyperextension rule also didn't exist just saying. He would have either gotten banned or maybe he might have lucked out like sohaib akhtar did who also had a hyperextension extension.

No one knows. This is why it's useless to talk about hypotheticals and actually talk about stats.

Wasim has nearly 2.5x the number of odi and test wickets that bumrah does atm. To top it off he has won a wc cup for his country followed by the fact he has 5 10 wicket hauls + 25 5 wicket hauls in test cricket and his worst performance is against England avg 29-30.

Bumrah has a major red flag againat nz where he avg 45. To even be considered in the tier of wasim, Marshall, Mcgrath etc etc he needs to improve this figure. This is a huge huge dent on his test mark atm,

In the same way Pointing is ranked below Steve smith, Lara, Kallis, Sachin in test cricket due to his 26 avg in India which was a dent on his career. Pointing would be in their class had he not had such a red flag which for some reason indian fans are ignoring.

To top it off bumrah has 0 10 wicket hauls and his odi tournament record during key events (Ct 2017 final, Eng 2019 + NZ 2019 game, + aus wc 2023 final) is a joke atm.

Lastly that 19 avg is impressive but bumrah is already 31, Will turn 32 this year. Main test will be to see if he maintains it and doesn't become another circus clown like kohli in test who once avg 57 in test cricket and now avg 47.

He has alot of catching upto do to compare him with wasim, but indian posters just wish to throw all facts and logic put the window. And overglorify everything beyond belief.

 

[Advaith]

I'm sorry but you think Bumrah would have made it in the 80's?
His action would have been called long before making it to international cricket and no one would have heard of him.

Try explaining hyperextension to cricket coaches in the 80's

An Illegal Bowling Action is defined as a bowling action where a bowler’s Elbow Extension exceeds 15 degrees, measured from the point at which the bowling arm reaches the horizontal until the point at which the ball is released (any Elbow Hyperextension shall be discounted for the purposes of determining an Illegal Bowling Action)
This is ICC law ..If you have seperate laws for cricket you can call him whatever you want .. nobody cares..

 

[SpiritOf1903]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1874009761123066206

 

[IMMY69]

An Illegal Bowling Action is defined as a bowling action where a bowler’s Elbow Extension exceeds 15 degrees, measured from the point at which the bowling arm reaches the horizontal until the point at which the ball is released (any Elbow Hyperextension shall be discounted for the purposes of determining an Illegal Bowling Action)
This is ICC law ..If you have seperate laws for cricket you can call him whatever you want .. nobody cares..

I'm sorry but why are you quoting me these laws? There is another thread to discuss Bumrah's hyperextension and the fact that he hasn't been tested as yet...

What I stated was that in the 80's, Wasim made his debut in 1984 and Waqar in 1988, the likelihood is that Bumrah wouldn't have made it to firstclsss cricket let alone international cricket because either his action he would have been discarded by the coaches....

 

[BCCI-Enforcer]

I'm sorry but why are you quoting me these laws? There is another thread to discuss Bumrah's hyperextension and the fact that he hasn't been tested as yet...

What I stated was that in the 80's, Wasim made his debut in 1984 and Waqar in 1988, the likelihood is that Bumrah wouldn't have made it to firstclsss cricket let alone international cricket because either his action he would have been discarded by the coaches....

If Wasim and Waqar made their debut in current era they would have failed dope test and been banned for ball tempering and fixing. They would share jail cell with Amir and Salaman Butt.

Dont mix a pure athlete like Bumrah with those junkies.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

If Wasim and Waqar made their debut in current era they would have failed dope test and been banned for ball tempering and fixing. They would share jail cell with Amir and Salaman Butt.

Dont mix a pure athlete like Bumrah with those junkies.

Chuckie is anything but 'pure'. He's an experiment in genetic mutation. He is the offspring of scientists

 

[BCCI-Enforcer]

Chuckie is anything but 'pure'. He's an experiment in genetic mutation. He is the offspring of scientists

A person must play the hand they are given when it comes to genetics. You can't chose it.

But your players chose to fix, temper and take drugs.

Even when given genetic advantage from the Gods they chose to take drugs and somehow ended up with genital warts too

Don't compare Bumrah with these kind of peoples.

 

[RexRex]

If Wasim and Waqar made their debut in current era they would have failed dope test and been banned for ball tempering and fixing. They would share jail cell with Amir and Salaman Butt.

It's hard to argue with this .. a lot of naughty things happened in the 90s...

 

[IMMY69]

If Wasim and Waqar made their debut in current era they would have failed dope test and been banned for ball tempering and fixing. They would share jail cell with Amir and Salaman Butt.

Dont mix a pure athlete like Bumrah with those junkies.

Nothing like throwing out a little bit of nonsense to try and make oneself feel better.

Firstly, the match fixing bookies were Indian and the first fixers to be caught was an Indian....

Secondly, to say if one or two players took dope then that means they would all have taken it? Did McGrath, Gilispie, Lee also take diarreritic?

The fact that Bumrah would have never made it in the 80's is as clear as the ball taking edge off Jaiswals bat...

Keep going though, it's amusing to watch

 

[BCCI-Enforcer]

Nothing like throwing out a little bit of nonsense to try and make oneself feel better.

Firstly, the match fixing bookies were Indian and the first fixers to be caught was an Indian....

Secondly, to say if one or two players took dope then that means they would all have taken it? Did McGrath, Gilispie, Lee also take diarreritic?

The fact that Bumrah would have never made it in the 80's is as clear as the ball taking edge off Jaiswals bat...

Keep going though, it's amusing to watch

Indian caught were punished. You are welcome to criticise any Indian fixers. We don't make them heroes.

Wasim and Waqar were arrested with drug possession in West Indies. McGrath and Lee were not.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[IMMY69]

Indian caught were punished. You are welcome to criticise any Indian fixers. We don't make them heroes.

Wasim and Waqar were arrested with drug possession in West Indies. McGrath and Lee were not.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

Wasim and Waqar were caught with recreational drugs on a beach in the carribean... is this how they managed to get reverse swing? Oh, that was actually 9 years after Wasin made his debut...

The great Viv Richards experimented with marijuana... I'm sure plenty others did too...

None of this detracts from my initial point that Bumrah wouldn't have made it to international cricket had he been playing in the 80's...

Context

 

[Technics 1210]

If we mention Indian cricket and its players enough times there will probably be another 100m new users by the end of 2025...

Haha.

I think India just need to be humiliated (lose a match or lose vs PCB) and the cult come flocking.

Over a decade, apart from filtered statistics and loss records, and the obvious Pakistan living rent free in Indian minds, Indian cricket and its alleged period of dominance has nothing to show for it - cos it doesn't exist. Playing the same team Home and Away is not dominance - winning ICC trophies however is dominance and India have the solitary chokers WC title to show for it.

There's a lot of pent up aggression in India lining up to cobble the bandwidth of the greatest cricketing forum on earth, their arch rivals, Pakistan's PP!

 

[BCCI-Enforcer]

Wasim and Waqar were caught with recreational drugs on a beach in the carribean... is this how they managed to get reverse swing? Oh, that was actually 9 years after Wasin made his debut...

The great Viv Richards experimented with marijuana... I'm sure plenty others did too...

None of this detracts from my initial point that Bumrah wouldn't have made it to international cricket had he been playing in the 80's...

Context

So you think criminals and junkies would have made in modern era? Didn't England drop Alex Hales for drugs.


You should be consistent. If you think Bumrah didn't make it in previous era its clear Wasim and Waqar won't make it now because criminals and tempering is something you can't get away with now.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

A person must play the hand they are given when it comes to genetics. You can't chose it.

But your players chose to fix, temper and take drugs.

Even when given genetic advantage from the Gods they chose to take drugs and somehow ended up with genital warts too

Don't compare Bumrah with these kind of peoples.

A freak with natural talent ?. Quite

 

[Farabi]

It’s disappointing to see some Pakistani fans calling Bumrah’s action illegal. As a Pakistani fan myself, I don’t agree with this view. Not every action undergoes scrutiny, and unless there is concrete evidence, no judgment can be made.

What truly stands out about Bumrah is the way he has shaped his career. He prioritized Test cricket, worked tirelessly on his fitness, and consistently improved his skills. It’s his champion mindset and ambitious goals that set him apart. He wasn’t as much of a threat when he debuted as he is now—a testament to his growth and dedication.

However, where I disagree with some Indian fans is the claim that Bumrah is better than “any Pakistani fast bowler.” That assertion is equally absurd. You can’t compare a player with potential GOAT status to those who are already cemented as all-time greats.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

It’s disappointing to see some Pakistani fans calling Bumrah’s action illegal. As a Pakistani fan myself, I don’t agree with this view. Not every action undergoes scrutiny, and unless there is concrete evidence, no judgment can be made.

What truly stands out about Bumrah is the way he has shaped his career. He prioritized Test cricket, worked tirelessly on his fitness, and consistently improved his skills. It’s his champion mindset and ambitious goals that set him apart. He wasn’t as much of a threat when he debuted as he is now—a testament to his growth and dedication.

However, where I disagree with some Indian fans is the claim that Bumrah is better than “any Pakistani fast bowler.” That assertion is equally absurd. You can’t compare a player with potential GOAT status to those who are already cemented as all-time greats.

He's taken advantage of a shocking era of test match cricket in which a 42 year old Jimmy Anderson had to be forced to retire as he was still pretty much holding his own against all batsman. That tells me the bats are bellow elite level standard. ( Majority of them)

 

[SpiritOf1903]

It’s disappointing to see some Pakistani fans calling Bumrah’s action illegal. As a Pakistani fan myself, I don’t agree with this view. Not every action undergoes scrutiny, and unless there is concrete evidence, no judgment can be made.

What truly stands out about Bumrah is the way he has shaped his career. He prioritized Test cricket, worked tirelessly on his fitness, and consistently improved his skills. It’s his champion mindset and ambitious goals that set him apart. He wasn’t as much of a threat when he debuted as he is now—a testament to his growth and dedication.

However, where I disagree with some Indian fans is the claim that Bumrah is better than “any Pakistani fast bowler.” That assertion is equally absurd. You can’t compare a player with potential GOAT status to those who are already cemented as all-time greats.

Their insecurity alone is testament to his dubious bowling

 

[Farabi]

He's taken advantage of a shocking era of test match cricket in which a 42 year old Jimmy Anderson had to be forced to retire as he was still pretty much holding his own against all batsman. That tells me the bats are bellow elite level standard. ( Majority of them)

The problem with comparing bowlers across eras is that there are too many variables.
Playing devils advocate, if the bats are below elite level standard, then why isn’t everyone else averaging below 20 and tearing through SENA teams day after day like Bumrah. Hes better than the rest of his times, which is my point about the absurdity in comparing across eras.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

The problem with comparing bowlers across eras is that there are too many variables.
Playing devils advocate, if the bats are below elite level standard, then why isn’t everyone else averaging below 20 and tearing through SENA teams day after day like Bumrah. Hes better than the rest of his times, which is my point about the absurdity in comparing across eras.

No one's comparing eras. If it wasn't for his questionable action, I'd happily admit he's the best of this era.

But there's a GLARING fact. 90's and 00's bowlers and batsman were Gold standard. STATS dont lie.

As for other bowlers, batsman and teams of present, They don't see Test cricket as a priority as it once was, and we all know why.

 

[Farabi]

No one's comparing eras. If it wasn't for his questionable action, I'd happily admit he's the best of this era.

But there's a GLARING fact. 90's and 00's bowlers and batsman were Gold standard. STATS dont lie.

As for other bowlers, batsman and teams of present, They don't see Test cricket as a priority as it once was, and we all know why.

Yes but you either didn’t understand my rhetorical question or didn’t chose to answer it.

The same phenomenon should apply to all the fast bowlers today. Why aren’t Shaheen, Naseem, Nitish Rana, Saini, Siraj, K Shahzad, and all the other bowlers tearing though the supposed lower quality batting and teams that don’t care as much about test cricket? They aren’t!, which was my point. And this shows/means there are some bowlers that are very special and Bumrah is one of them.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Yes but you either didn’t understand my rhetorical question or didn’t chose to answer it.

The same phenomenon should apply to all the fast bowlers today. Why aren’t Shaheen, Naseem, Nitish Rana, Saini, Siraj, K Shahzad, and all the other bowlers tearing though the supposed lower quality batting and teams that don’t care as much about test cricket? They aren’t!, which was my point. And this shows/means there are some bowlers that are very special and Bumrah is one of them.

Il keep it short and sweet. There was far better Top drawer test cricketers throughout the 90's and 00's compared to what ive seen in the last decade.

 

[Savak]

Waqar and Wasim had their peaks in a time when reverse swing was an unknown commodity but Bhumrah in the present era where reverse swing is a widely known art, where batsmen have big heavier bats, where bowlers have a much demanding workload across all formats has proven to be better than Wasim, Waqar.

 

[Farabi]

Il keep it short and sweet. There was far better Top drawer test cricketers throughout the 90's and 00's compared to what ive seen in the last decade.

I’ll keep it shorter and sweeter. I appreciate the nostalgia but this is neither logical nor data-driven.

 

[Rajdeep]

I like this @BCCI-Enforcer poster...I think I can take some rest time from these threads now.

 

[Vikram1989]

I like this @BCCI-Enforcer poster...I think I can take some rest time from these threads now.

I think he is a troll from border

 

[Buffet]

100 test wickets with the same figures and he will be hailed as a ATG.

100 test wickets with the same figures? That's Marshall's level.

 

[Devadwal]

Ahead of the last game in Sydney, Jasprit Bumrah is six wickets away the all-time India record for most wickets in a Test series

Can he takes another 6 wickets in Sydney test considering the workload he has done entire series?

 

[Devadwal]

I like this @BCCI-Enforcer poster...I think I can take some rest time from these threads now.

I think @Mamoon came up with new account to Take on pakistan fan's.

Now he can't do with his original id due to change of stands so he made a new one.

 

[kron]

Well hopefully Bumrah can fix that 45 avg, pick up a few 10 wicket hauls and improve his choke status in odi knockouts.

Let's hope and pray and keep our fingers crossed.

You mean hope he gets injured and breaks down.

 

[Buffet]

Waqar and Wasim had their peaks in a time when reverse swing was an unknown commodity but Bhumrah in the present era where reverse swing is a widely known art, where batsmen have big heavier bats, where bowlers have a much demanding workload across all formats has proven to be better than Wasim, Waqar.

You are correct. Fan can go on and on about reverse and all other factors, but when all said and done, you got to pick wickets cheaply and quickly as bowler. During Waqar's peak, NZ was poor team and SL was certified minnow due to winning only 2-3 tests till early 90s in their entire history.

In matches involving Pak, Aus, Eng, WI, SA, Ind ( 6 out of 8 test teams )




I know some one will bring the excuse about how hard it was to do well due to Pakistani pitches,

Here are 2Ws away tests in matches involving the same 6 test teams.



Any elite test bowlers don't have average of 27-29 .

Anyone bringing up how great batsmen were in those days, look at Hadlee, Ambrose, McGrath, Donald, Walsh -- All had far better output. I mean you have literally 5-6 bowlers doing well so no excuse of era and since we are looking at away record, no excuse of Pakistani pitches.

Wasim and Waqar both were very good test bowler but not an elite level test bowler. Wasim massively underachieved in my opinion. I tuned up to watch Wasim bowl and he was that good when it came to skills and troubling batsmen, but you got to take wickets cheaply and quickly against good teams. That's what makes you a better bowler.

 

[Buffet]

If thats the case for Wasim that he bowled on dead pitches ,

Wasim and Waqar, both have not great record in lively away pitches in matches involving 6 out of 8 test teams. Sl was minnow till mid 90s and NZ was a poor team in 90s.

Wasim averages 27-28 and Waqar Averages 29-30 in macthes involving Pak, Aus, Eng, Ind, WI, SA when playing away. Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Donald, Walsh all did far better. So plenty of bowlers who did well in the same era.

Home, Away , Over all - 2 Ws don't have a great record against good teams.

 

[mominsaigol]

You mean hope he gets injured and breaks down.

I'm a huge fan of Bumrah just saying. I really like him as a bowler and cricketer.

Bit I am not delusional and won't place him > some bowlers just because some Indians don't have a damn clue on how to scale

 

[kron]

I'm a huge fan of Bumrah just saying. I really like him as a bowler and cricketer.

Bit I am not delusional and won't place him > some bowlers just because some Indians don't have a damn clue on how to scale

Wasim
Then bunrah due to longevity
Then imran
Then shami waqar etc
Shoaib

Vaas is not that good.
Neither is zak khan .

Kapil should be just below top 5
Srinath in top 8

 

[kron]

Wasim and Waqar, both have not great record in lively away pitches in matches involving 6 out of 8 test teams. Sl was minnow till mid 90s and NZ was a poor team in 90s.

Wasim averages 27-28 and Waqar Averages 29-30 in macthes involving Pak, Aus, Eng, Ind, WI, SA when playing away. Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Donald, Walsh all did far better. So plenty of bowlers who did well in the same era.

Home, Away , Over all - 2 Ws don't have a great record against good teams.

I have never come across any commie or analyst anointing waqar aa the. Best ever bowler in the world.

Not even imran..

They said that for bumrah and wasim only.

 

[mominsaigol]

Wasim
Then bunrah due to longevity
Then imran
Then shami waqar etc
Shoaib

Vaas is not that good.
Neither is zak khan .

Kapil should be just below top 5
Srinath in top 8

Thats not how it works.

The biggest issue with bumrah atm is that he faces the same issue that prevented Pointing to be ranked in the class of sachin, Lara, Smith, Kallis etc in test cricket.

And that is despite having their talent, his record in India was a huge huge red flag which prevented him from reach said tier ala avg 26.

Bumrah avg 45 vs NZ which atm no great bowler such as Mcgrath, Marshall, Wasim, Imran has. Avg of 35 is pathetic and hence puts bumrah as the pointing of bowling rather then the sachin or bradman of bowling that he's being hyped up to be.

Furthermore in terms of wicket tally he is way way way way behind wasim + Imran. Then you have to consider he has zero 20 wicket hauls in test cricket.

And his odi tournament record in crunch games is a joke as he suffers from the same choke mentality that India usually suffers from.

He has time but he needs to improve this but it seems Indians are already desperately wanting to crowm him king and don't actually have arguments as to why excluding that 19 avg


However he's already 31 and ik for a fact he won't maintain that 19 avg. It'll increase, so what will be the excuse then?

 

[mb3407]

You are correct. Fan can go on and on about reverse and all other factors, but when all said and done, you got to pick wickets cheaply and quickly as bowler. During Waqar's peak, NZ was poor team and SL was certified minnow due to winning only 2-3 tests till early 90s in their entire history.

In matches involving Pak, Aus, Eng, WI, SA, Ind ( 6 out of 8 test teams )

View attachment 149162


I know some one will bring the excuse about how hard it was to do well due to Pakistani pitches,

Here are 2Ws away tests in matches involving the same 6 test teams.
View attachment 149163


Any elite test bowlers don't have average of 27-29 .

Anyone bringing up how great batsmen were in those days, look at Hadlee, Ambrose, McGrath, Donald, Walsh -- All had far better output. I mean you have literally 5-6 bowlers doing well so no excuse of era and since we are looking at away record, no excuse of Pakistani pitches.

Wasim and Waqar both were very good test bowler but not an elite level test bowler. Wasim massively underachieved in my opinion. I tuned up to watch Wasim bowl and he was that good when it came to skills and troubling batsmen, but you got to take wickets cheaply and quickly against good teams. That's what makes you a better bowler.

EOD

 

[kron]

Thats not how it works.

The biggest issue with bumrah atm is that he faces the same issue that prevented Pointing to be ranked in the class of sachin, Lara, Smith, Kallis etc in test cricket.

And that is despite having their talent, his record in India was a huge huge red flag which prevented him from reach said tier ala avg 26.

Bumrah avg 45 vs NZ which atm no great bowler such as Mcgrath, Marshall, Wasim, Imran has. Avg of 35 is pathetic and hence puts bumrah as the pointing of bowling rather then the sachin or bradman of bowling that he's being hyped up to be.

Furthermore in terms of wicket tally he is way way way way behind wasim + Imran. Then you have to consider he has zero 20 wicket hauls in test cricket.

And his odi tournament record in crunch games is a joke as he suffers from the same choke mentality that India usually suffers from.

He has time but he needs to improve this but it seems Indians are already desperately wanting to crowm him king and don't actually have arguments as to why excluding that 19 avg


However he's already 31 and ik for a fact he won't maintain that 19 avg. It'll increase, so what will be the excuse then?

He will get 300 wickets. Will play 70 games max. That's more than enough. I think he retires with an average of 21 22

Cause once you decline you average around 25 26 post 31 years of age. For most elite players.

Bumrah needs to do well in home conditions vs SA or nz. To check that off

One more good away series in England.

And finally improve a bit vs nz away.

Then yes he can go above wasim provided he lasts another 20 25 tests. But number 2 at the moment from Asia.