How good is Sadaf Hussain? Why isn't he getting selected?

[Mahmood101]

So I've heard this name a lot on PP but I haven't seen him but going by his stats he seems to be an absolute beast. Then again stats in Pakistan's domestic system aren't the best indicators to a players abilities (Asad Ali had amazing domestic stats but he wasn't that good on the international stage). So for those of them who know him and have seen him how is this guy? Is he any good? And if so why isn't he getting selected?

 

[Slog]

He might be good but he certainly isn't as good as his stats would suggest

Most of the domestic pitches these days are green mambas which makes these guys look better than they are

This is why Hammad Azam averages 18 in FC but looks like a club level bowler whenever he has appeared in international cricket

So its hard to judge how good Sadaf is but one thing is clear that he is certainly not as good as these misleading stats suggest

 

[Slog]

I feel if anything these green and wet wickets have had a negative effect on our pplayers overall

The seamers get wickets without trying too hard so they don't bang it in and bowl with pace anymore

 

[Suleiman]

Can't be worse than Umar "Cannon Fodder" Gul. It's a mystery how he keeps on getting selected. Guy can't sneeze without injuring his knee, and can bowls as straight as a bowling machine.

Yes he might not be McGrath, but he can't be worse than the tried and true garbage that is being recycled.

 

[Slog]

Can't be worse than Umar "Cannon Fodder" Gul. It's a mystery how he keeps on getting selected. Guy can't sneeze without injuring his knee, and can bowls as straight as a bowling machine.

Yes he might not be McGrath, but he can't be worse than the tried and true garbage that is being recycled.

deja vu?

keep hearing about every youngster and they end up being rabbits in the headlights in international cricket

 

[Pace90]

I have seen him and he is a good club level bowler and also an OK bowler for Pakistan's FC level but certainly not of international class. No pace. Asad Ali, I agree wasn't good for International class but I would pick, Asad over Sadaf. Although he is better bower than Hammd, whom I would not let bowl, even for my club game.

 

[Suleiman]

deja vu?

keep hearing about every youngster and they end up being rabbits in the headlights in international cricket

His stats say otherwise...

Like I said, he probably won't set the world on fire, but I'd rather take a risk and bring a youngster in than keep giving infinite chances to the exhausted and expired. Currently, we bring a done and dusted "experienced" campaigner who flops once again and gets dropped for a year before coming back in. What's the worse that could happen if we give him a chance?

Give him a full series or two, if he fails, okay drop him and move on. This is the rebuilding phase, we have 4 years right now, most teams look to introduce fresh faces in preparation for the next world cup. Not all new comers will be winners, but how will we know if we keep infesting the team with the same people who has shown no substance for the past 3-4 years.

 

[cricfan14]

He might be good but he certainly isn't as good as his stats would suggest

Most of the domestic pitches these days are green mambas which makes these guys look better than they are

This is why Hammad Azam averages 18 in FC but looks like a club level bowler whenever he has appeared in international cricket

So its hard to judge how good Sadaf is but one thing is clear that he is certainly not as good as these misleading stats suggest

You don't rate Hammad?

 

[Slog]

You don't rate Hammad?

don't rate his bowling
will average 30+ in international cricket

 

[Major]

I was talking to one of my fellow club mates who has played at district level, he told me he had face sadaf and this guy had genuine swing. He told me that this guy has the most deadliest inswingers, he bowls at 6th stump, and his bowl swing so much that it even missed his leg stump.. I asked him about his pace, he told me that he wasn't the pacy kind of bowler, but more like mcgrath and asif type.

Poor guy, had Sadaf been from lahore, he would had been playing in no time

 

[Major]

deja vu?

keep hearing about every youngster and they end up being rabbits in the headlights in international cricket

bhai point is on merit he deserves selection

 

[Slog]

bhai point is on merit he deserves selection

yeah

but my point is he is notgonna do wonders and wont be a big step up on what we have.

ppl expect him to come and take a fifer every match or sth

he is just a good bowler. but certainly wont set the world alight if he is drafted in right now

 

[Zohaib Shah]

I was talking to one of my fellow club mates who has played at district level, he told me he had face sadaf and this guy had genuine swing. He told me that this guy has the most deadliest inswingers, he bowls at 6th stump, and his bowl swing so much that it even missed his leg stump.. I asked him about his pace, he told me that he wasn't the pacy kind of bowler, but more like mcgrath and asif type.

Poor guy, had Sadaf been from lahore, he would had been playing in no time

Sounds like a spinner to me.

 

[Belawal2014]

yeah

but my point is he is notgonna do wonders and wont be a big step up on what we have.

ppl expect him to come and take a fifer every match or sth

he is just a good bowler. but certainly wont set the world alight if he is drafted in right now

Even 'good' would be great by Pakistani standards seeing how our bowlers got tonked around v Ban.

 

[rhony]

His stats say otherwise...

Like I said, he probably won't set the world on fire, but I'd rather take a risk and bring a youngster in than keep giving infinite chances to the exhausted and expired. Currently, we bring a done and dusted "experienced" campaigner who flops once again and gets dropped for a year before coming back in. What's the worse that could happen if we give him a chance?

Give him a full series or two, if he fails, okay drop him and move on. This is the rebuilding phase, we have 4 years right now, most teams look to introduce fresh faces in preparation for the next world cup. Not all new comers will be winners, but how will we know if we keep infesting the team with the same people who has shown no substance for the past 3-4 years.

Rebuilding doesn't mean you have to try 50 different bowlers. That will be counter productive. You have to pick a few players, back them, nurture them and give them enough games. Anyway, Pakistan needs to test their batsmen. Bowling line up is more or less settled

 

[Suleiman]

Rebuilding doesn't mean you have to try 50 different bowlers. That will be counter productive. You have to pick a few players, back them, nurture them and give them enough games. Anyway, Pakistan needs to test their batsmen. Bowling line up is more or less settled

Bowling line up is more or less settled? The bowlers just got a spanking of a lifetime from a team like Bangladesh (bar maybe Wahab) and the bowling is settled? lol Out of the 5 Frontline bowlers making up the attack, 4 are passengers bar Wahab. Junaid is coming back from injury, so we have no clue if he is going to improve especially going by his below par performances prior to getting injured. Rahat has been getting plundered on the flat decks so far, Ajmal is done, Nasim is a club level bowler. Nothing about this attack is "settled".

And I never said we should try 50 bowlers, we should choose the few who are deemed worthy (aka consistent domestic performances) and give them a long rope instead of reintroducing players who are finished. That's it. Sadam is a bowler who we could try, yes he may not be world class, but we have a severe lack of decent pacers, especially right armers, so we may as well give him a chance. I'd give a guy like him a chance rather than Umar Gul a millionth chance like the selectors have decided to do once again.

 

[Suleiman]

*Sadaf

Not Sadam lmao

 

[Hawkeye]

Grossly overrated by PPers who have never seen him bowl.

He's a trundler who bowls in 120s, is not rated by the scouts/selectors and we don't know if he can use the kookaburral ball.

Remember, these trundlers swing the domestic ball miles on green mambas and have a Marshall-esque domestic averages. Don't let it deceive you, because he most probably is in that category as well who can't make the Kookaburra talk.

Does he deserve an opportunity? Surely yes, but these same PPers will be calling for his head, just like they did with ASAD ALI.... who is Malcolm Marshall in domestic but a club level bowler at international stage. Was hyped to no limits here.

 

[asfandyar]

Grossly overrated by PPers who have never seen him bowl.

He's a trundler who bowls in 120s, is not rated by the scouts/selectors and we don't know if he can use the kookaburral ball.

Remember, these trundlers swing the domestic ball miles on green mambas and have a Marshall-esque domestic averages. Don't let it deceive you, because he most probably is in that category as well who can't make the Kookaburra talk.

Does he deserve an opportunity? Surely yes, but these same PPers will be calling for his head, just like they did with ASAD ALI.... who is Malcolm Marshall in domestic but a club level bowler at international stage. Was hyped to no limits here.

I'll still give him an opportunity, along with Taj Wali and Asad Ali. The latter played just 4 ODIs before being discarded, and had an economy rate of 3.83 in them. And if you saw his matches, many of his chances were grassed. If you don't go read Cricinfo's commentary. We are content with giving Asad Shafiq a thousand chances, yet can't tolerate even one mishap from the others.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'll still give him an opportunity, along with Taj Wali and Asad Ali. The latter played just 4 ODIs before being discarded, and had an economy rate of 3.83 in them. And if you saw his matches, many of his chances were grassed. If you don't go read Cricinfo's commentary. We are content with giving Asad Shafiq a thousand chances, yet can't tolerate even one mishap from the others.

Yeah, give him an opportunity but don't expect him to set the world on fire. He will most probably be the second Asad Ali.

Only Taj Wali is potentially a good bowler. Decent pace, can seam, swing. He should've been in the A team, but I guess he's not on Waqar's radar.

Asad Ali is proven to be extremely mediocre, a trundler who can't move the ball an inch.

 

[thair9999]

Most of the domestic pitches these days are green mambas which makes these guys look better than they are.

Stupid logic, if this is true why the other players in team are selected on their performance on domestic pitches, aren't their stats are on same pitches or they used some imported pitches that no one else can use

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Why is it that Pak pacers are unable to bowl consistent lines with swing?

 

[Kakar]

There is an argument broughtup that he doesn't bowl with kookabura ball. In the gold cup, kookabura balls were used. He was still the leading wicket taker by some distance. I'm not saying that he's a world beater. But he definitely deserves a chance because of his performance in domestic cricket. If he doesn't perform, discard him, but at least give him a chance.

 

[Slog]

Stupid logic, if this is true why the other players in team are selected on their performance on domestic pitches, aren't their stats are on same pitches or they used some imported pitches that no one else can use

other ppl like Gul who are in the team dont play full FC seasons or they would have same records

Eg Abdur Rauf played a full season. His average was 17. Anyone who has seen him play knows he is a club level bowler. Also he averaged 17 at the offiicial age of 36

 

[Kakar]

Some people's logic: PPers overrate him without seeing him. We disregard him without ever seeing him. But that's fine.
There's a person who is taking wickets after wickets. And you people sitting here in front of PCs just disregard all his work. Whether he performs or not is a separate matter but at least he deserves to play.
Just because one or two didn't perform doesn't mean a guy constantly taking wickets doesn't deserve a chance. He is responsible for himself. And he is taking wickets. With kookabura too.

 

[BuccalSingh]

Maybe another Rauf, anyone remember him?

 

[Hawkeye]

Some people's logic: PPers overrate him without seeing him. We disregard him without ever seeing him. But that's fine.
There's a person who is taking wickets after wickets. And you people sitting here in front of PCs just disregard all his work. Whether he performs or not is a separate matter but at least he deserves to play.
Just because one or two didn't perform doesn't mean a guy constantly taking wickets doesn't deserve a chance. He is responsible for himself. And he is taking wickets. With kookabura too.

I suppose you're talking about me, but you missed the line where I said he deserves an opportunity. Please re-read the post.

I'm only talking about toning down the hype machine and the expectations people have developed for him by seeing stats on cricinfo. They can turn out to be false. Selectors don't rate him.

And I'm not if he's swinging the Kookaburra or not, you said he is (?), I'd like some proof. He wasn't in the Pentangular cup where Kookaburra was used, are you sure it was used in the other tournament. Any videos as well (to see how he took wickets).

 

[junaid.ahmed]

sadaf is unfit

 

[Kakar]

I suppose you're talking about me, but you missed the line where I said he deserves an opportunity. Please re-read the post.

I'm only talking about toning down the hype machine and the expectations people have developed for him by seeing stats on cricinfo. They can turn out to be false. Selectors don't rate him.

And I'm not if he's swinging the Kookaburra or not, you said he is (?), I'd like some proof. He wasn't in the Pentangular cup where Kookaburra was used, are you sure it was used in the other tournament. Any videos as well (to see how he took wickets).

President's Gold Cup was played with Kookabura balls. He was the leading wicket taker in that. 21 wickets in 6 games. Average of 13. Next highest number of wickers was 16. His attack partner Rahat managed 8 wickets in same number of matches.

 

[Hawkeye]

President's Gold Cup was played with Kookabura balls. He was the leading wicket taker in that. 21 wickets in 6 games. Average of 13. Next highest number of wickers was 16. His attack partner Rahat managed 8 wickets in same number of matches.

You know this for a fact? It may up my expectations for him a bit, if it's true.

 

[Hawkeye]

It also depends on how he took the wickets.

Pentangular Cup - Sohail Khan was the highest wicket taker. You'd expect that he is the next coming of Amir, but he's not a world class talent and only a stop-gap measure.

 

[Hawkeye]

He wasn't in the one day tournament (Pentangular), so didn't play with the Kookaburra.

Also, President's trophy was scrapped, are you giving me results of the older tournament? That was also played with the local ball.

Disappointment, again.

 

[kingusama92]

You have to give him a chance because how else can he prove himself?

His stats suggest he deserves a shot and that should be enough. If you tell a player that you're not good enough despite him doing better than everyone else (including those representing the national team), he's going to quit and burn his kit.

This sends a horrible message to young players and disheartens them. This alone should be enough to give him a proper shot.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I was talking to one of my fellow club mates who has played at district level, he told me he had face sadaf and this guy had genuine swing. He told me that this guy has the most deadliest inswingers, he bowls at 6th stump, and his bowl swing so much that it even missed his leg stump.. I asked him about his pace, he told me that he wasn't the pacy kind of bowler, but more like mcgrath and asif type.

Poor guy, had Sadaf been from lahore, he would had been playing in no time

If he was that good, no way he is still sitting on the sidelines.

I don't buy that argument that if you are good enough, you won't get spotted.

Amir was spotted.

Asif was spotted.

Millions were spotted before and millions will be spotted after.

There must be something that selectors see in his stats that they doubt his pedigree.

Deserves a chance, but is not going to be swinging Kookaburras like that at least.

The problem is, according to PP, almost every bowler is second coming of Asif or McGrath.

There is no such talent available in Pakistan and its dried up for the while being.

 

[Kakar]

He wasn't in the one day tournament (Pentangular), so didn't play with the Kookaburra.

Also, President's trophy was scrapped, are you giving me results of the older tournament? That was also played with the local ball.

Disappointment, again.

The link mentions the ODI and T20 tournaments mate. Not just the pentangular one. And no, this wasn't scrapped. This took place towards the end of January this year.

 

[Kakar]

And this was Gold One Day Cup. Not four day.

 

[Kakar]

It also depends on how he took the wickets.

Pentangular Cup - Sohail Khan was the highest wicket taker. You'd expect that he is the next coming of Amir, but he's not a world class talent and only a stop-gap measure.

Again, just because Sohail Khan wasn't good enough, doesn't mean we disregard Sadaf too. Plus, there was a difference of 5 wickets between him and next bowler. 21 wickets in 6 matches with Kookabura ball is too good. It can't be that he took all of them by chance or against tail-enders.

 

[Blue_eyes]

his 21th wicket was of fawad alam in semi final against nbp. look how he bowled at the death and at the start as always swinging. i dont understand some of people have never seen him and talk non sense they should be banned from pp. everyone who has seen him bowl will say sadaf = amir> junaid

 

[hussain.r97]

his 21th wicket was of fawad alam in semi final against nbp. look how he bowled at the death and at the start as always swinging. i dont understand some of people have never seen him and talk non sense they should be banned from pp. everyone who has seen him bowl will say sadaf = amir> junaid

Here we go again

 

[Pete Rose]

Needs to get in line. Bowling is a settled unit, despite whatever happens against Bangladesh

 

[hussain.r97]

We don't need another unfit liability in the field who makes Chris Martin proud. His bowling on his own is not good enough. We don't want trundlers who swing the grays ball. We want genuine pace bowlers, who will be effective at international level, and won't give away more than they contribute.

Now Sadaf could quite possibly swing the kookaburra. But in all likelihood, he'll turn out like Asad Ali.

The fact that he failed the PCB fitness test means that he shouldn't be anywhere near the team. I recall him being selected for the West Indies tour in 2011, and not impressing Waqar very much. There is a reason he's not being selected.

 

[wakkkLDN]

Surely we must have some type of standard for selecting players. Domestic cricket maybe a joke but thats the standard we must use. Arent other players selected based on there domestic performances?

As far as Asad Ali is concerened he was a decent bowler particularly at the death. He should have been persisted with. He had control with the new and old balls which the likes of rahat ali are lacking. If somebody has a better domestic record than rahat he should be given a try.

 

[Shafi]

If the pitch is green they why can't we play bouncy pitch in Australia and South Africa?

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

Grossly overrated by PPers who have never seen him bowl.

He's a trundler who bowls in 120s, is not rated by the scouts/selectors and we don't know if he can use the kookaburral ball.

Remember, these trundlers swing the domestic ball miles on green mambas and have a Marshall-esque domestic averages. Don't let it deceive you, because he most probably is in that category as well who can't make the Kookaburra talk.

Does he deserve an opportunity? Surely yes, but these same PPers will be calling for his head, just like they did with ASAD ALI.... who is Malcolm Marshall in domestic but a club level bowler at international stage. Was hyped to no limits here.

same was said about sohail khan

 

[Dr_Bassim]

same was said about sohail khan

Sohail Khan is not a world beater in the first place.

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

Sohail Khan is not a world beater in the first place.

i talked about the pace thing , world beater or not , atg or not is not the discussion

 

[iiqbal]

AS per PCB in Daily Jang Today news , Sadaf is not fully fit , even not fit to pass fitness test

 

[umer187]

He might be very good but most of the pakpassioners praising him have not seen him bowl (including me). All the people are just talking on the basis of his stats. We need to see how well a bowler is bowling instead of seeing his stats.

 

[hussain.r97]

AS per PCB in Daily Jang Today news , Sadaf is not fully fit , even not fit to pass fitness test

He's fully fit. He's just not fit enough to pass the PCB fitness test. Anyone who can't pass this test shouldn't even be considered for selection.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

i talked about the pace thing , world beater or not , atg or not is not the discussion

And Sohail will struggle because not every pitch will be Australian pitch.

Too short a sample to believe that Sohail will swing the ball on every pitch and will be amazing new ball bowler on every pitch.

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

And Sohail will struggle because not every pitch will be Australian pitch.

Too short a sample to believe that Sohail will swing the ball on every pitch and will be amazing new ball bowler on every pitch.

again a reminder , pace pace was the argument but now that you have started , yeah every pitch is not Australian , but i don't think we have any better right arm fast bowler than him , Sami might be better but he is not on the scene

 

[IAJ]

Sadaf Hussain apparantly collapsed during a fitness test.

Our bowlers think they can just turn up, bowl some overs, take a few wickets and the job is done. Who will field? And who will bat? In cricket you have to get 10 men out, not only the top 6/7 batsmen, hence the bowlers should learn to hold the bat.

 

[hussain.r97]

Sadaf Hussain apparantly collapsed during a fitness test.

Our bowlers think they can just turn up, bowl some overs, take a few wickets and the job is done. Who will field? And who will bat? In cricket you have to get 10 men out, not only the top 6/7 batsmen, hence the bowlers should learn to hold the bat.

He collapsed during a YoYo test, attaining a score a 14. He required 19.

14 is extremely poor, and that is by ormal people standards, not athlete standards. He should be nowhere near the team, or A team. It's bad for the team, and sets the wrong example. Furthermore, he makes Chris Martin feel proud with the bat, and probably can't field as a result of his fitness.

Given Sadaf is a trundling 'swing' bowler. Long spells would be expected from him. How can he bowl with that fitness?

Total liability for the team.

 

[hussain.r97]

Here's something just to give an idea about how poor his YoYo test was. He attained a score of 14.

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/norms/yo-yo.htm

 

[zabalestmsm]

Grossly overrated by PPers who have never seen him bowl.

He's a trundler who bowls in 120s, is not rated by the scouts/selectors and we don't know if he can use the kookaburral ball.

Remember, these trundlers swing the domestic ball miles on green mambas and have a Marshall-esque domestic averages. Don't let it deceive you, because he most probably is in that category as well who can't make the Kookaburra talk.

Does he deserve an opportunity? Surely yes, but these same PPers will be calling for his head, just like they did with ASAD ALI.... who is Malcolm Marshall in domestic but a club level bowler at international stage. Was hyped to no limits here.

I liked Asad Ali. Deserved more chances. He wasnt pacy but could swing the new ball.

 

[zabalestmsm]

Because our selectors are biased. And those writing him off even before being tested at international level are being too harsh. Very rare people here must have seen him bowl. One says he swings the ball a lot and the other says he is an ok FC bowler. So difference in opinions will be there depending on the taste of a specific person. Until and unless he is tested in the international arena none of the different opinions must matter much regarding his domestic bowling. The most deserving bowler for international currently in Pakistan.

 

[cricwiz]

He collapsed during a YoYo test, attaining a score a 14. He required 19.

14 is extremely poor, and that is by ormal people standards, not athlete standards. He should be nowhere near the team, or A team. It's bad for the team, and sets the wrong example. Furthermore, he makes Chris Martin feel proud with the bat, and probably can't field as a result of his fitness.

Given Sadaf is a trundling 'swing' bowler. Long spells would be expected from him. How can he bowl with that fitness?

Total liability for the team.

By the way, most of the keyboard warriors will also likely fail this test for this reason alone:

other considerations: This test is a maximal test, which requires a reasonable level of fitness. It is not recommended for recreational athletes or people with health problems, injuries or low fitness levels.
http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/yo-yo-endurance.htm

So to say that it is extremely poor is wrong. Yes by athletes standard's it is wrong... but by normal people/youngsters standards (i.e. the ones living in Pakistan) who do not even jog for 5 km per week (not even talking about running) this is going to be an extremely hard test..

 

[hussain.r97]

By the way, most of the keyboard warriors will also likely fail this test for this reason alone:

other considerations: This test is a maximal test, which requires a reasonable level of fitness. It is not recommended for recreational athletes or people with health problems, injuries or low fitness levels.
http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/yo-yo-endurance.htm



So to say that it is extremely poor is wrong. Yes by athletes standard's it is wrong... but by normal people/youngsters standards (i.e. the ones living in Pakistan) who do not even jog for 5 km per week (not even talking about running) this is going to be an extremely hard test..

We do this test and the beep test in New Zealand at school.

I'm sorry, but 14 is extremely poor.

 

[Major]

If he was that good, no way he is still sitting on the sidelines.

I don't buy that argument that if you are good enough, you won't get spotted.

Amir was spotted.

Asif was spotted.

Millions were spotted before and millions will be spotted after.

There must be something that selectors see in his stats that they doubt his pedigree.

Deserves a chance, but is not going to be swinging Kookaburras like that at least.

The problem is, according to PP, almost every bowler is second coming of Asif or McGrath.

There is no such talent available in Pakistan and its dried up for the while being.

bhai, none of us have ever seen him, peole who have already saw him bowled rate him highly.

Had Sadaf been playing from Lahore or from Misbah's team he would had been selected immediately. Being from Lahore plays a big part and playing for the current Captain matters alot too.

Money talks aswell, If Wahab Riaz is playing international today, its because of his hard work plus the money he invested in cricket.

Take alook at Imran Tahir, he is the best example availible. Najaf Shah used to be like Sadaf, but even he dint get a good run. MOhammad Ayub Doggar and Aamir Sajjad were destroying first class players, did they get selected, fawad alam was dropped from test cricket when he scored a debut 100+

 

[Slog]

^ Ive seen Sadaf. He is good but nothing special. Certainly wont average sub 25 in intl cricket.

People who keep harping on about Sadaf don't realize that the reasons why he has such good stats are:

1) He plays in Silver League. So he is facing inferior batsmen
2) Most of the pitches he plays on are green giving him a huge advantage

 

[Mamoon]

Not good enough for international cricket. I hope he gets a chance soon so that the hype dies down. I was excited about him until I saw him bowl.

The fact that guys like him and Hammad have such low F/C averages sums up the standard of the pitches. We need to pick bowlers on their potential, not the averages because they tend to be misleading and often don't reflect the true worth of the bowler.

 

[godzilla]

some v interesting points raised in this thread, particularly about the hype and fall from grace thanks to the hormones of teenage fans, and the kookaburra ball. also i totally agree that far more often than not - bowlers hyped on the domestic scene disappoint when it comes to the international level.

that all said, one thing that does confuse me is why this means that domestic bowling stats should be ignored. if there are two bowlers, A and B, and A outperforms B domestically, over a few seasons and on multiple measures, but B has played international cricket and is one of our many average bowlers, why would it not make sense to want to try A - even though its bad pitches and non-kookaburra balls? surely if B is the better bowler to represent pakistan, he ought to over time more often than not outperform A in domestics? i dont think thats a foolproof theory, because i think its harder for a bowler to make the jump to intl than a batsman, but i cant think of how it doesnt stand as a general principle.

 

[Major]

yar whether he is good or not, he deserves selection on merit

 

[Major]

if wickets are green and such then why cant other bowlers out perform him?

 

[asfandyar]

if wickets are green and such then why cant other bowlers out perform him?

Added to this, why aren't our batsmen who have Bradmanesque averages in domestics apt against the swinging ball?

 

[asfandyar]

The only way we can check whether he's a domestic track bully is by testing him out. Period.

As for Hammad, I think you are missing the fact that you saw him bowl before he remodelled his action.

Hammad last played an ODI back in Feb 2012. Given below are is season by season FC bowling average. You will notice a visible difference from the 2012-13 season.

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/191/191609/f_Bowling_by_Season.html

 

[thair9999]

other ppl like Gul who are in the team dont play full FC seasons or they would have same records

Eg Abdur Rauf played a full season. His average was 17. Anyone who has seen him play knows he is a club level bowler. Also he averaged 17 at the offiicial age of 36

Aren't Stats based on the inning/matches played? Why these stats are glorified for some and not others? Isn't this logical if someones stats for same FC circuit are better than other there should be a reason?

 

[Slog]

Aren't Stats based on the inning/matches played? Why these stats are glorified for some and not others? Isn't this logical if someones stats for same FC circuit are better than other there should be a reason?

when both Hammad Azam and Abdur Rauf average 18 you know sth is wrong. Both esp. Abdur Rauf have proven to be nowhere near good enough bowlers at international level. Abdur Rauf is 36 now and he played for Pak at his peak and was mediocre

Similarly Ehsan Adil averages 20 on these pitches and at international leveh he has shown that he is clearly a work in progress and nowhere near good enough at the moment despite potential. But he has such crazy figures at domestic

If Asif was playing domestic cricket right now he would prolly average 10!!!

 

[thair9999]

Ehsan Adil averages 20 on these pitches

So if Ehsan Adil with Average of 20 is picked, why someone with Average of 18 is not picked? So rubbish 20 is acceptable and rubbish 18 is not? I know players in Pakistan are picked on unknown merit, you have to admit your logic regarding this is as rubbish as those stats.

 

[asfandyar]

when both Hammad Azam and Abdur Rauf average 18 you know sth is wrong. Both esp. Abdur Rauf have proven to be nowhere near good enough bowlers at international level. Abdur Rauf is 36 now and he played for Pak at his peak and was mediocre

Similarly Ehsan Adil averages 20 on these pitches and at international leveh he has shown that he is clearly a work in progress and nowhere near good enough at the moment despite potential. But he has such crazy figures at domestic

If Asif was playing domestic cricket right now he would prolly average 10!!!

I think you must first read up on the differences between First Class and List A before commenting, . As with tests and ODIs, the mechanics of the games are different, hence different types of bowlers succeed. Only rarely can a bowler succeed in both formats, one of the salient features of potential ATGs.

Let us discuss Asif for a moment: He was a once-in-a-lifetime bowler in tests, but pretty mediocre in ODIs. Similarly, Starc excels in limited overs cricket, but has mediocre record for tests. It is because of you that we keep on selecting players like Younis Khan and Rahat Ali for ODIs.

Ehsan Adil averages 20 in FC cricket, not in List A cricket. He averages 27+ in List A cricket, and has had only had 1/4 seasons where he has succeeded, which has maintained his average to a decent below 30 mark. Check his season by season List A stats here: http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/1152/1152353/a_Bowling_by_Season.html

Now let us come to Sadaf. He averages <20 in both List A and FC. In List A, He has had only 1/6 seasons where he failed (way back in 2010), whereas he has managed to gather outstanding stats thereafter. Here is his List A record: http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/114/114258/a_Bowling_by_Season.html

We are among the top teams in test, so it unreasonable to change our bowling there (you don't mend things that aren't broken). For ODIs, we are in some form of a crisis, both in bowling and batting, and a bowler with such outstanding stats should and cannot be ignored. There is a high chance that he may fail in International cricket as the jump is huge, yet he should be first on the merit list for potential pace bowling debutants. Ehsan Adil should never have debuted with his below average stats in domestics. Sadaf should have. However, Sadaf's fitness problems are a concern and he has himself to blame for that.

For your Hammad Azam notion let me append my previous post from this same thread.

As for Hammad, I think you are missing the fact that you saw him bowl before he remodelled his action.

Hammad last played an ODI back in Feb 2012. Given below are is season by season FC bowling average. You will notice a visible difference from the 2012-13 season.

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/19...by_Season.html

 

[Slog]

So if Ehsan Adil with Average of 20 is picked, why someone with Average of 18 is not picked? So rubbish 20 is acceptable and rubbish 18 is not? I know players in Pakistan are picked on unknown merit, you have to admit your logic regarding this is as rubbish as those stats.

no, you misunderstand or cant read properly

My point is that Sadaf Hussain maybe better than the others but he most certainly wont make enough of performances to have any significant impact on results.

Neither will we become world beaters nor will he be a world class bowler when he comes in. And therefore the results wont change that much

Also Ehsan averages 20 in Division 1 whereas Sadaf's stats are division 2 (ie Silver League) so most likely Ehsan is better than Sadaf. And we all know Ehsan;s impact so far in international cricket

 

[Slog]

I think you must first read up on the differences between First Class and List A before commenting, As with tests and ODIs, the mechanics of the games are different, hence different types of bowlers succeed. Only rarely can a bowler succeed in both formats, one of the salient features of potential ATGs.

Let us discuss Asif for a moment: He was a once-in-a-lifetime bowler in tests, but pretty mediocre in ODIs. Similarly, Starc excels in limited overs cricket, but has mediocre record for tests. It is because of you that we keep on selecting players like Younis Khan and Rahat Ali for ODIs.

Ehsan Adil averages 20 in FC cricket, not in List A cricket. He averages 27+ in List A cricket, and has had only had 1/4 seasons where he has succeeded, which has maintained his average to a decent below 30 mark. Check his season by season List A stats here: http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/1152/1152353/a_Bowling_by_Season.html

Now let us come to Sadaf. He averages <20 in both List A and FC. In List A, He has had only 1/6 seasons where he failed (way back in 2010), whereas he has managed to gather outstanding stats thereafter. Here is his List A record: http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/114/114258/a_Bowling_by_Season.html

We are among the top teams in test, so it unreasonable to change our bowling there (you don't mend things that aren't broken). For ODIs, we are in some form of a crisis, both in bowling and batting, and a bowler with such outstanding stats should and cannot be ignored. There is a high chance that he may fail in International cricket as the jump is huge, yet he should be first on the merit list for potential pace bowling debutants. Ehsan Adil should never have debuted with his below average stats in domestics. Sadaf should have. However, Sadaf's fitness problems are a concern and he has himself to blame for that.

For your Hammad Azam notion let me append my previous post from this same thread.

Ehsan averages 20 and 27 in Division 1 and Sadaf has slightly better stats in Division 2. And Ehsan's List A is slightly dented by his international ODI failure

so your whole post is rendered meaningless

an avg of 20 in Gold League FC> an average of 18 in Division 2 silver league

Additionally in List A matches the pitches aren't as green. Usually the grass is shaved off for the limited overs cricket.

It is great that Sadaf has great stats in both but it loses its value to a big extent as they are in an inferior league where he shouldn't be playing. First some Div 1 team should snap him up if they deem him good enough

 

[Slog]

Basically the point is Sadaf us not some savior

He should maybe get a chance on merit but success isn't guaranteed and at best he might be a decent option

Certainly won't be running through sides

I would like to know how many people propping his name up by looking at his inflated, second Division stats have actually watched him bowl. If they did then they wouldn't be this ecited

 

[asfandyar]

Ehsan averages 20 and 27 in Division 1 and Sadaf has slightly better stats in Division 2. And Ehsan's List A is slightly dented by his international ODI failure

so your whole post is rendered meaningless

an avg of 20 in Gold League FC> an average of 18 in Division 2 silver league

Additionally in List A matches the pitches aren't as green. Usually the grass is shaved off for the limited overs cricket.

It is great that Sadaf has great stats in both but it loses its value to a big extent as they are in an inferior league where he shouldn't be playing. First some Div 1 team should snap him up if they deem him good enough

Has Ehsan Adil been playing ODIs for four seasons? Read my post again: He has succeeded in only one of his four List A seasons. Even if we discount his ODIs, he still has a fairly mediocre record.

 

[godzilla]

The only way we can check whether he's a domestic track bully is by testing him out. Period.

As for Hammad, I think you are missing the fact that you saw him bowl before he remodelled his action.

Hammad last played an ODI back in Feb 2012. Given below are is season by season FC bowling average. You will notice a visible difference from the 2012-13 season.

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Players/191/191609/f_Bowling_by_Season.html

Completely agree with this, those numbers don't lie (even if they are fc vs la). By the way, how did you drill down into those stats from the pcb website, i can't find how to get there from the player page....

 

[asfandyar]

Ehsan averages 20 and 27 in Division 1 and Sadaf has slightly better stats in Division 2. And Ehsan's List A is slightly dented by his international ODI failure

so your whole post is rendered meaningless

an avg of 20 in Gold League FC> an average of 18 in Division 2 silver league

Additionally in List A matches the pitches aren't as green. Usually the grass is shaved off for the limited overs cricket.

It is great that Sadaf has great stats in both but it loses its value to a big extent as they are in an inferior league where he shouldn't be playing. First some Div 1 team should snap him up if they deem him good enough

In addition, Sadaf has been playing Division 1 cricket since the past two seasons. And just to correct you further, he played List A in gold category not silver.

 

[asfandyar]

Completely agree with this, those numbers don't lie (even if they are fc vs la). By the way, how did you drill down into those stats from the pcb website, i can't find how to get there from the player page....

Search for the player's name and write pcboard next to it. E.g. search on google "Sadaf Hussain pcboard". Then go to the result with the pcboard.com.pk domain. In the player profile click on Lists of matches and more detailed statistics. You'll enter a whole new world of statistics. Click on "bowling" in Season-by-season List A record batting and fielding and bowling.

Alternatively you can type "cricketarchive" instead of "pcboard" if you want to search for non-Pakistani players

 

[godzilla]

Search for the player's name and write pcboard next to it. E.g. search on google "Sadaf Hussain pcboard". Then go to the result with the pcboard.com.pk domain. In the player profile click on Lists of matches and more detailed statistics. You'll enter a whole new world of statistics. Click on "bowling" in Season-by-season List A record batting and fielding and bowling.

Alternatively you can type "cricketarchive" instead of "pcboard" if you want to search for non-Pakistani players

Aha!! Thanks v much for that, the line I previously missed was the 'list of matches and more detailed statistics'. For some reason have never seen it before. This will kill more time to work off my man flu. Thanks again!

 

[asfandyar]

Aha!! Thanks v much for that, the line I previously missed was the 'list of matches and more detailed statistics'. For some reason have never seen it before. This will kill more time to work off my man flu. Thanks again!

You are welcome. Majority of people don't even know such a system exists, and base their assumptions on cricinfo's statistics. By this method you can also have a look at the past few FC/LA/miscellaneous matches he has played.

One more thing that I found out using this method is that Babar Azam has a lot of LBWs, Bowleds and Caught Behinds in List A cricket, which points towards technical deficiencies. His record bears a similarity with another List A legend, Asad Shafiq, whom we know how he turned out in International cricket. I hope I am wrong, because like most PP members, I also have high hopes from Babar. For Sadaf, well he rarely gets a poor match, so I hope he doesn't turn out to be mediocre (after 15-20 ODIs).

 

[thair9999]

Basically the point is Sadaf us not some savior

He should maybe get a chance on merit but success isn't guaranteed and at best he might be a decent option

Certainly won't be running through sides

I would like to know how many people propping his name up by looking at his inflated, second Division stats have actually watched him bowl. If they did then they wouldn't be this ecited

I am not advocating for Sadaf. I was shocked to see how illogical someone can be with a presumed 140+ IQ.