How many of you guys see feminist movement as a gender equality movement?

[Swanny]

I dont care about the dictionary definition but about your own perception of the movement.

What's your opinion on the feminazis who have still operational twitter handles like 'Kill All Men' or go on to suggest that 'all men are rapists' ?

 

[PCP_1]

Can't beat feminists.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Feminism is important, in the West and especially in the Middle East. "Kill all men" or "all men are rapist" sentiments have about as much to do with feminism as statements like "kill all white people" have to do with racial equality.

I like how men feel so threatened they need to take the radical fringe view and represent it as the general ideology.

 

[RWAC]

Feminism where it stands for fighting to get same rights for women as men is indeed laudable and a requirement in most of the world.

The only trouble is that the radical fringe has made it impossible for anyone to make statements publicly that dwell on grey areas.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Feminism is its proper form is fine, equality should be our aim as a society.

Problem is modern feminism is a load of absolute ****ocks, pardon my french.

Discriminating against men isnt equality, acting like men are all evil rapists isnt equality, its total BS and any woman or man who prescribes to the above thoughts is an idiot.

And let me get this out of my system now (going into rant mode), this recent fad of women empowerment crap under the name of feminism is total and utter nonsense. Running a marathon with your period running down your legs isnt "empowerment", it isnt a celebration of the natural form, its bloody disgusting/attention seeking. If Mo Farah ran a marathon with crap running down his legs he wouldnt be applauded by men for celebrating a natural function, quit this garbage.

And dont get me started on this gender quota stuff we see these days. Oh whats that? Their should be equal men and women in politics? Nice idea, but the reality is more men are interested in running for office than women. Even then why not have gender quotas for contruction?sewage?binmen? nurses? teachers? Ah but they're either a)not glamourous or b) full of women, which is fine because only men can be sexist

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

*Deep breath*

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Feminism is important, in the West and especially in the Middle East. "Kill all men" or "all men are rapist" sentiments have about as much to do with feminism as statements like "kill all white people" have to do with racial equality.

I like how men feel so threatened they need to take the radical fringe view and represent it as the general ideology.

Wow. So out of all the global population you managed to focus on the west and middle east. Well I am certainly interested to hear how other regions are faring comparatively.

 

[Swanny]

Feminism is its proper form is fine, equality should be our aim as a society.

Problem is modern feminism is a load of absolute ****ocks, pardon my french.

Discriminating against men isnt equality, acting like men are all evil rapists isnt equality, its total BS and any woman or man who prescribes to the above thoughts is an idiot.

And let me get this out of my system now (going into rant mode), this recent fad of women empowerment crap under the name of feminism is total and utter nonsense. Running a marathon with your period running down your legs isnt "empowerment", it isnt a celebration of the natural form, its bloody disgusting/attention seeking. If Mo Farah ran a marathon with crap running down his legs he wouldnt be applauded by men for celebrating a natural function, quit this garbage.

And dont get me started on this gender quota stuff we see these days. Oh whats that? Their should be equal men and women in politics? Nice idea, but the reality is more men are interested in running for office than women. Even then why not have gender quotas for contruction?sewage?binmen? nurses? teachers? Ah but they're either a)not glamourous or b) full of women, which is fine because only men can be sexist

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

*Deep breath*

+1

I'm surprised that anyone still thinks the current feminist movement is about gender equality. I'm sorry this wave of feminist movement is simply not it.

For a long time feminists have lobbied against discussion of any issue regarding men's issues like rising suicide rates, workplace or domestic violence, drop in education rates among men, etc

In my view a movement which regularly projects men as rapists, evil, opressors, rapists, misogynists, pigs, etc is not for gender equality. These arent the views of some radical feminists either these are views of prominent journalists, politicians, etc. For eg a prominent Australian Youth Minister had tweeted several times in support of the handle & nothing happened to her but prominent scientists have been chucked out of their jobs in lieu of severe lobbying by the prominent feminists.

If we take a step back & think about it which should have been dealt more seriously a call for genocide championing killing of 90% men population by a prominent policy maker a youth minister nonetheless or a couple of sexist jokes by academics people the answer should be clear. But feminists or allegedly gender equality proponents clearly beg to differ.

To me equality stands for 'everyone is equal before the law' that can of stuff.

For me feminist movement is for women's right & against prejudices against women at best.

 

[CricketTragic]

I don't think feminism, as I understand the definition, implies the rejection of maternal values, nurturing children, caring about the men in your life. That is just nonsense to me. - Hillary Clinton

 

[ahsan17]

I have explained this before and will mention it again. Modern feminism does not stand for equality. Feminists want equality only when it benefits women. Read that very carefully. They do not want equality when equality goes against their best interests. Few examples include the existence alimony and divorce courts that by and large benefit women, and child custody laws which again by and large benefit women. Do you see feminists asking for equality there?

I could honestly write a very long post on this subject, but I've done it so many times I can't be arsed anymore.

 

[Swanny]

Feminism is important, in the West and especially in the Middle East. "Kill all men" or "all men are rapist" sentiments have about as much to do with feminism as statements like "kill all white people" have to do with racial equality.

I like how men feel so threatened they need to take the radical fringe view and represent it as the general ideology.

No the feminist movement currently is being run by these bigots. These elements are now mainstream are are propogating this bs on primetime tv & it has already affecting the psyche of people.

For eg the 'A man should NEVER hit a woman no matter how much she screams, yells or beats a man' & 'Men are evil & women are the oppressed & innocent'.

This line has affected the psyche of people especially cops so that when they are called in case of domestic abuse where the wife has beat the husband with an objects & he tries to restrain her & say it leaves a small bruise on her wrists the cops will arrest the husband (becoz all men are evil & no one should hit a woman) on the spot even if your the one really hurt.

I kid you not the above instance has happened several times. The wife has just to show a bruise & husband will be sent to jail. The wife will get all the sympathy by the courts, the cops, society while the husband is labelled a wife beater & has zero chance of making a living.


The 'women are innocent angels' has also impacted the lesbian community where both the abuser & abused are women. In such cases where victims report abuse the cops dont file the cases or even if they are filed they arent taken seriously.

The men feel threatened becoz they know they'll be discriminated against by the police as well as the courts the very institutions enstrusted to preserve equality. When the courts start openly discriminating against you, you have absolutely nowhere to go.

 

[Swanny]

Also I find the statement 'A man should never hit a woman EVER even if she hits you or whatever' to be the greatest piece of crap ever.
I mean if somebody is stupid enough to try to punch me in face or kick me in the crotch even though I am stronger they atleast deserve being slapped.

 

[Strike Rate]

Also I find the statement 'A man should never hit a woman EVER even if she hits you or whatever' to be the greatest piece of crap ever.
I mean if somebody is stupid enough to try to punch me in face or kick me in the crotch even though I am stronger they atleast deserve being slapped.

Exactly i find it funny at on side they say men and women equal but on the other side they ask for special treatment whenever possible? They hit you thats fine but in return if you do it than it's not good? A man is standing in a bus is fine but a woman standing and man not giving him a seat is bad manners? and there are hundreds of different examples. They should realize being equal mean equal treatment in everything so don't expect special treatment in that case because equality means not seeing other as specialbut normal just like you and me so in that case gender doesn't matter and stop asking for special treatment just ask for equality.

 

[Indiafan]

+1

I'm surprised that anyone still thinks the current feminist movement is about gender equality. I'm sorry this wave of feminist movement is simply not it.

For a long time feminists have lobbied against discussion of any issue regarding men's issues like rising suicide rates, workplace or domestic violence, drop in education rates among men, etc

In my view a movement which regularly projects men as rapists, evil, opressors, rapists, misogynists, pigs, etc is not for gender equality. These arent the views of some radical feminists either these are views of prominent journalists, politicians, etc. For eg a prominent Australian Youth Minister had tweeted several times in support of the handle & nothing happened to her but prominent scientists have been chucked out of their jobs in lieu of severe lobbying by the prominent feminists.

If we take a step back & think about it which should have been dealt more seriously a call for genocide championing killing of 90% men population by a prominent policy maker a youth minister nonetheless or a couple of sexist jokes by academics people the answer should be clear. But feminists or allegedly gender equality proponents clearly beg to differ.

To me equality stands for 'everyone is equal before the law' that can of stuff.

For me feminist movement is for women's right & against prejudices against women at best.

This is like saying I see some hindutva people and believe all Hindus are for muslim oppression, I see all Queda and say all muslims are terrorists, etc

Which movement projects men as rapists, etc? What are you even talking about? Are you seriously classifying twitter trolls as feminists?

 

[Indiafan]

I have explained this before and will mention it again. Modern feminism does not stand for equality. Feminists want equality only when it benefits women. Read that very carefully. They do not want equality when equality goes against their best interests. Few examples include the existence alimony and divorce courts that by and large benefit women, and child custody laws which again by and large benefit women. Do you see feminists asking for equality there?

I could honestly write a very long post on this subject, but I've done it so many times I can't be arsed anymore.

I have explained this before but modern religion is only about terrorism. Religious people want only terrorism and not equality. Read that very carefully

See, anyone can make stupid ignorant statements without understanding a thing and believing social media troll. And no, many feminists do want equal rights in child custody, alimony etc

 

[Indiafan]

Also I find the statement 'A man should never hit a woman EVER even if she hits you or whatever' to be the greatest piece of crap ever.
I mean if somebody is stupid enough to try to punch me in face or kick me in the crotch even though I am stronger they atleast deserve being slapped.

This has nothing to do with feminism. Yesterday i saw a religious person say, all non-believers should be killed. This is the greatest piece of crap ever so that means all religions are bogus, right?

 

[Indiafan]

When some misguided religious people kill others - There are billions of religion people, these people are misguided, they don't understand religion, all religious people should not be labeled.

When some misguided feminists make stupid statement - all modern feminism is bad, they are all nazis wanting to trample men

Yeah right, it is your own insecurity showing

 

[Swanny]

When some misguided religious people kill others - There are billions of religion people, these people are misguided, they don't understand religion, all religious people should not be labeled.

When some misguided feminists make stupid statement - all modern feminism is bad, they are all nazis wanting to trample men

Yeah right, it is your own insecurity showing

I have no problem with feminists calling themselves proponents of female rights. I salute them for it. There are several movements working for rights of women, children, adolscents, people of a specific race, caste, etc. But to call themselves the proponents of gender equality is laughable.

 

[Mrhandsome]

Feminism is its proper form is fine, equality should be our aim as a society.

Problem is modern feminism is a load of absolute ****ocks, pardon my french.

Discriminating against men isnt equality, acting like men are all evil rapists isnt equality, its total BS and any woman or man who prescribes to the above thoughts is an idiot.

And let me get this out of my system now (going into rant mode), this recent fad of women empowerment crap under the name of feminism is total and utter nonsense. Running a marathon with your period running down your legs isnt "empowerment", it isnt a celebration of the natural form, its bloody disgusting/attention seeking. If Mo Farah ran a marathon with crap running down his legs he wouldnt be applauded by men for celebrating a natural function, quit this garbage.

And dont get me started on this gender quota stuff we see these days. Oh whats that? Their should be equal men and women in politics? Nice idea, but the reality is more men are interested in running for office than women. Even then why not have gender quotas for contruction?sewage?binmen? nurses? teachers? Ah but they're either a)not glamourous or b) full of women, which is fine because only men can be sexist

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

*Deep breath*

HAha I just love your posts sometimes. You're awesome. She's definitely bloody fat.

 

[Moh@n]

You cannot pitch for gender equality and take privileges at the same time because you are the "weaker sex".

It's total BS and hypocrisy at it's finest. It happens atleast here in India.

We got women only colleges, seats reserved for women in buses (public transport), entire bogies reserved for women in trains, higher income tax benefits for women and women quota for certain government jobs.

This needs to end, else don't bother fighting for gender equality.

 

[JaDed]

Can't paint all the feminists as evil.Some of them have genuinely worked for the cause over the years.The women who abuse physically don't represent all feminists, just saying.
We have the right to constructively criticize the movement so that they improve but its not right to just dismiss the movement.
Having said that a selfish side of me prefers to have the upper hand but subconsciously i also know that its wrong.

 

[Tesla]

If power and rights was an apple, and God created 100 apples for 100 women, the ideal gender equality would be women having 1 apple each.

But the way a lot of Feminists are approaching it is.. "Since half the women worldwide are not going to have any apple, the rest of us want twice the apples", which means twice the power, twice the rights. I don't agree with this, it is not about consuming all the apples, but it is about sending them to the right people. This kind of overcompensation only gives rise to a different form of gender inequality where men suffer.

 

[Swanny]

This has nothing to do with feminism. Yesterday i saw a religious person say, all non-believers should be killed. This is the greatest piece of crap ever so that means all religions are bogus, right?

It has originated from feminist ideology of 'Men are evil oppressors & women are innocent victims'. This ideology is firmly entrenched in feminist history.

For instance why do you think people laugh during a scene where a woman kicks a guy in the crotch ? It is regarded as a sign of women fighting against evil oppressive men. It is met with cheers such as 'girl power' or 'you go girlfriend'.

I'm not speaking of innocent & easily influenced people who mistake feminist movement to be fighting for gender equality but the femminist lobby who actually are running the show & people who are pulling the strings.

These are the people who start vicious campaign against anything remotely challenging to their views. These are the masters behind the movement & they themselves are pretty radical.

Take example of 'Kill All Men' twitter handle which has been active for months & the Australian Youths Minister who tweeted several times on the handle supporting genocide of 90% of men walks away unscathed while a Nobel laurette professor gets kicked out becoz of a sexist joke. Sorry but I see a big feminists lobby in action in the later case and quiet a radical one at that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think feminism means different things in first world countries and the less developed world. You could argue that it's gone too far in the west and not far enough in the third world.

 

[Mamoon]

Misogyny is a serious issue in third world countries.

 

[Swanny]

Feminst movement has had a great influence in slowly eroding the institution of marriage especially for straight couples. This is the one of the reasons I support the feminist movement.

According to a 2012 Pew research the US & UK have reportd the least no. of married couples ever in their history. It was also noted that among American women the desire to get married has increased as compared to similar research 10yrs ago by 9% but among American men the desire to get married has decreased by 7%.

Among some of reasons given for falling desire to get married among men are:
1) The raising rates of divorces 70% of which are intiated by women.
2) The discrimination shown by courts especially in cases of child custody, alimony & child support.

What's more encouraging is there is no reversing this trend without men recieving equal treatment by the courts.

 

[Dee1990]

Feminism has gone too far in the west in my opinion. Here's a great article I found which explains what I'm talking about:

The denigration of men: Ridiculed, abused, exploited - the triumph of feminism has made today's men second class citizens, argues a deliciously provocative new book. And it's time the chaps fought back!

- Men are responsible for many great achievements but getting a raw deal

- New book claims men have been unfairly undermined by modern feminism

- Men are doing more, working harder and getting none of the credit, it says

Men are brilliant. Seriously, we are. We invented philosophy, medicine, architecture, cars, trains, helicopters, submarines and the internet. Not to mention the jet engine, IVF, electricity and modern medicine.

We’ve led all the industrial revolutions and sent rockets into Space. We’ve fought wars with tin hats and bayonets and won them. The world we live in would be nothing without Alexander Graham Bell, Sigmund Freud, Horatio Nelson, Winston Churchill, William Shakespeare and Albert Einstein. The geniuses Leonardo da Vinci, Stephen Hawking, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Charles Darwin and Michael Faraday have all contributed immeasurably to our modern lives.

So why is it that, today, there has there never been a worse time to be a man? Rubbishing the male of the species and everything he stands for is a disturbing — and growing — 21st century phenomenon. It is the fashionable fascism of millions of women — and many, many men, too. Instead of feeling proud of our achievements, we men are forced to spend our time apologising for them. When people chide us for not being able to multi-task or use a washing machine we join in the mocking laughter — even though we invented the damned thing in the first place.

If ever we do manage to do something well we’re told it’s because our achievements were handed to us on a plate — probably at the expense of women — and not because we’re skilled and work hard. And, naturally, the problems of the world are all our fault.

In 2013 the Labour MP Diane Abbott made a damning speech about Britain’s men and boys, smugly announcing that masculinity was ‘in crisis’.

The then shadow Public Health Minister declared that male culture is a ‘celebration of heartlessness; a lack of respect for women’s autonomy and the normalisation of homophobia’.

She sneered that men were choosing to stay in ‘extended adolescence’ by living at home with their parents — which has nothing to do with rising house prices, of course, but everything, according to Ms Abbott, with men being ‘resentful of family life’. If it weren’t so tragic it would be funny.

As it is, this kind of stiletto sexism — popularised by an army of female media commentators such as Julie Burchill, Suzanne Moore and Barbara Ellen — has become a depressingly familiar feature of modern British life. And it shows no sign of going away.

Consider the statistics. If you become a father to twins — one girl, one boy — current data proves that your son will die younger, leave school with fewer qualifications and be less eligible for work than your daughter.

Our universities and further education institutions are dominated by women at a proportion of ten to every seven men, with the Royal Veterinary College formally identifying boys as an under-represented group.

Across the Russell Group of Britain’s leading 20 universities, just three have a majority of male students.

This means your son will be more likely to join the ranks of the unemployed, the majority of whom are now — yes, you’ve guessed it — men.

The Office of National Statistics noted that in the summer of 2014 a total of 1,147,511 British men were out of work, compared with 887,892 women.

Psychologically, your son will be more likely to suffer from depression and attempt suicide than his sibling, but there’ll be less support in place to save him.

He’s also more likely to endure everyday violence than women, with the latest crime statistics for England and Wales noting that two-thirds of homicide victims were men.

If he’s seduced by his female teacher, she’ll leave court with a slapped wrist thanks to a legal system which is frequently lenient with women. But if your daughter has an affair with her male maths teacher he’ll be chalking up numbers on a prison wall before you can say: ‘burn your bra’.

By the time your son is 18, he will probably have absorbed the social message that his dad is much less valuable as a parent than his mother — that fathers in families are an added bonus, not a crucial cog.

Then, if he starts his own family and his relationship doesn’t last, he may become one of the four million UK men who have no access to their children, yet are forced to fund them.

To cap it all, he’ll be progressively neglected by British healthcare despite being more likely to get — and die from — nine out of the top ten killer diseases. You know, the biggies: these include cancer, heart conditions, strokes, pneumonia, diabetes and cirrhosis of the liver.

Fifteen years ago the UK Men’s Health Forum showed that, for every £1 spent on men’s health, £8 was spent on women’s. Since then little has changed, for no good reason. Or rather, one very bad reason: we live in a medical matriarchy. In other words, male life is cheap. Bargain basement, last-day-of-the-sale cheap.

The ultimate insult? It’s all done at our expense. The National Health Service is funded by the public purse, but it’s men — yes, men — who pay a whopping 70 per cent of UK income tax. Yet we are thrown nothing but crumbs in return.

Currently, women are screened for breast cancer, ovarian and cervical cancer. This is great, but excuse me if I don’t jump for joy. There’s still no screening programme for prostate cancer, even though it kills four times more men than cervical cancer does women.

And while we’re on the subject of statistics, we men will die five years earlier than our wives, sisters, daughters and girlfriends in a life expectancy gap that’s increased 400 per cent since 1920.

Oh, and if we are lucky enough to survive the NHS long enough to be able to go on holiday and sit next to a child on a commercial airline such as British Airways, he’ll be moved in case he sexually abuses them. Your grown-up daughter won’t, even if she has previous form.

All in all, the outlook for your son is pretty bleak, isn’t it? Sadly, he will accept the way things are because over the past couple of decades or so it’s what men have done.

In our anxiety to support women’s emancipation — which men agree with, by the way — we have allowed our intellectual ability, our emotional intelligence and our capacity for commitment to be endlessly ridiculed.

Obviously, this isn’t to say that girls are having a brilliant time of it. Most of society is well versed in the problems and pressures faced by women — the same women who have spent years trying to prove their worth beyond motherhood and housework.

But, unlike us, they get column inches and air time. They get government funding and MPs. They have a vocal community who will stand in their defence.

We men, on the other hand, have nobody. We are of no interest to MPs, UN panels or charities. If we want somebody to fight our corner, we are going to have to do it ourselves.

And fight it we must, before it’s too late. We don’t want to undo or compete with feminism — far from it. But we urgently need our own version of women’s lib to stop our sons being permanently deflated, downgraded and disenfranchised. Remember the suffragettes? We are the suffragents.

So here are my suggestions for a new, improved approach to masculinity. It may not be politically correct, but look where political correctness has got us.

Let’s start by ditching a few of those everyday myths about being a bloke in the 21st century. First up, the wage gap. For years men have been guilt-tripped over a supposed discrepancy in pay that apparently sees women lose thousands of pounds every year compared with their male colleagues.

The great news? According to experts who understand it, this simply isn’t true.

The claim has been debunked by leading economists, including Claudia Goldin and Lawrence Katz, both professors of economics at Harvard University, and Christina Hoff-Somers of the American Enterprise Institute.

‘The wage gap myth has been repeatedly discredited but it will not die,’ says Hoff-Somers. ‘The 23 per cent gap is the difference between average earnings for all men and all women, but it does not take into account differences in occupation, expertise, job tenure and hours worked. When it does, the so-called wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing.’ Essentially, this means a woman who works as a primary school teacher isn’t going to be paid the same as a man who works as a brain surgeon. Which is how it should be. This is about salaries structured on skill, difficulty and reward.

Many women work fewer hours than men. Many choose comfortable, low-paying jobs that fit in with their many other commitments, perhaps to children and ageing parents rather than strenuous, dangerous and life-threatening ones. These naturally bring higher pay for men, but — according to the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health — also put male workplace fatalities at 94 per cent of the total.

Which suddenly makes women’s career choices look very much more sensible, whatever the pay difference. And make no mistake about it, a choice there has to be. When it comes to careers and families, something has to give.

But that’s as it should be.

It’s a mathematical fact there aren’t enough hours in the day for anyone, male or female, to work 60-hour weeks all year, raise children and run a house full-time. So the idea that it should be split down the middle to prove some political point might sound right-on, but in reality it’s the cause of so much unnecessary marital conflict.

Instead, let’s be realistic. Whether it’s an unwelcome truth or not, most new mothers like to nurture the baby they’ve been carrying for nine months, while fathers typically return to work and help bankroll it.

This is absolutely OK.

Think about it: women carry life. That’s the ultimate. We men can’t compete with that, so our purpose is to provide for that life.

That’s our identity as fathers and what we bring to the table. It’s been this way since time immemorial because it’s cost-effective, practical and sensible.

Recent legislative changes tried to rewrite this fact when the Coalition brought in extended paternity leave in 2011, taking it beyond the standard two weeks. But it failed miserably. Fewer than one in 50 used it. In fact, for various reasons, a quarter of new fathers took no leave at all.

This is also absolutely OK if it’s what both partners want.

Eventually, in every relationship, somebody will need to take the bulk of childcare responsibility, while the other manages the rest. Personally, I don’t care who assumes the traditional breadwinner role, but unless you can afford a nanny (or manny) to do the child rearing for you, it can’t be both of you.

Whatever the outcome, just remember: it’s not a choice that must be adjudicated by feminist harridans. I say this because whenever working fathers are discussed in the media, the insinuation is that they don’t pull their weight.

Actually, the opposite is true: aside from proving we can multi-task just fine, research collated by the Fatherhood Institute shows that British dads work the longest hours in Europe — an average of 46.9 hours per week, compared with 45.5 hours in Portugal, 41.5 hours in Germany and 40 hours in France.

Around one in eight UK fathers works excessively long hours — 60 or more — while almost 40 per cent graft more than 48 hours each week. Contrary to popular opinion, we don’t leave the house every morning for the sole purpose of jumping into bed with our secretaries. And when we do get home to spend time with our children we’re no slackers either.

In the late Nineties, fathers of children under five were devoting an average of two hours per day on child-related activities, compared with under 15 minutes in the mid-Seventies.

Today, fathers’ time spent with their children currently accounts for one-third of total parental childcare, even though many of them are working full-time as well.

So we’ve established that men are, in fact, pulling their weight at home, and that the pay gap is not what it’s cracked up to be.

Indeed, in many cases it’s going the other way: the Chartered Management Institute found recently that female managers in their 20s are now bringing home 2.1 per cent more than men of the same age.

So why, I ask, are men still expected to pay for nights out? I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve sat in restaurants observing men financing lavish dinners while their glamorous guests freeze at the sight of the credit card machine — even though, dripping with jewellery, they could clearly afford to cough up.

Don’t get me wrong. Plenty of women do go Dutch. Plenty more settle the tab themselves. We like these women. We like them when they allow us to treat them — and likewise, we enjoy it when they spoil us. What we’re after here is a mutually beneficial sharing of bills, as well as minds.

That’s not to say we should throw out chivalrous behaviour altogether. There are plenty of aspects of it — otherwise referred to as ‘being nice’ — that are worth keeping. Holding a door open for a woman, for example, just makes the minutiae of daily life a bit easier for everyone. It’s a kind and respectful thing to do.

All I’m asking for is that we men get a bit of respect in return. Because at the moment we’re being exploited and abused — not least, as I’ll explain on Monday, when it comes to our most important roles of all: as husbands and fathers.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cative-new-book-s-time-chaps-fought-back.html

 

[ahsan17]

All the anti-male laws that discriminate against men were either drafted by feminists, or were laws that existed before the second wave feminist movement and continue to exist because they benefit women (e.g. alimony, child support). I hope the irony is not lost - because feminists complain about the lack of inequality in those times, yet they have nothing against some of the laws that existed during those times simply because they are discriminatory against men rather than women.

 

[Swanny]

Also was patriarchy opressive only towards women or was it opressive towards both men & women but mostly men ?

Even in patriarchy women are viewed as the most important resource. Men were forced to be primary breadwinners, provide a house, necessities for the woman & provide safety to the women.

Think about the middle ages where there were wars, gangs, very little transportation, safety, meagre jobs, unsafe working conditions etc would you rather stay at home or be the primary bread winner ?

 

[xSAADx]

I am a supporter of gender equality but Modern feminism is oppressive towards men.

 

[ahsan17]

Also was patriarchy opressive only towards women or was it opressive towards both men & women but mostly men ?

Even in patriarchy women are viewed as the most important resource. Men were forced to be primary breadwinners, provide a house, necessities for the woman & provide safety to the women.

Think about the middle ages where there were wars, gangs, very little transportation, safety, meagre jobs, unsafe working conditions etc would you rather stay at home or be the primary bread winner ?

Although this is slightly off-topic but it brings up some very important points. Feminists have twisted this part of the history to their advantage, unsurprisingly. They've somehow made everyone believe that men were completely free while women were treated as slaves and property.

Fact of the matter is, men who didn't comply to societal expectations were shamed and often killed. In addition, men were forced to go to war and probably get killed. Sounds like a lot of privilege and freedom to me.

Yet another thing to realize (like you mention) is that women were not forced to stay home - they did work in jobs they could work safely. This was before the industrial age when there were little to no jobs that didn't involve danger or physical labour. Farming was an exception and women were involved in farming.

Feminists have spectacularly rewritten history to their own advantage and no one even questions it.

 

[Swanny]

I am sometimes amazed by the hate feminists have towards patriarchy. It was a system which was borne out of necessity during the dark times when there were hardly any jobs, hardly any education facilities, the men worked outside while women took care of the house & the kids. Bear in mind in most cases men worked in same profession as their fathers so no 'freedom of choice' or whatever. It was bad for everyone involved.

Surely it isnt the ideal for the western countries now but to blame the system or men for exclusively opressing women is like rewritting history to suit your agenda.

 

[ahsan17]

Before anyone tries to misrepresent my opinion, I am not saying women were completely free while men were completely oppressed. But the fact of the matter is that things were nowhere near as one-sided as feminists claim (and how it is generally believed to be) they were.

* I wanted to edit my previous post but apparently there's a 2 minute limit on that.

 

[dildilpak]

The thing is that the true feminist principles fight for equality between men and women. But in today's world, feminism has been somewhat hijacked by misandrist females (I refuse to call them women) whose sole purpose is to pull men down.

At the same time, there is still a serious need for true feminism - especially in traditional South-Asian culture where in many places a woman is nothing short of a possession, a symbol of family honor or a baby-making factory. Even in urban areas, professionally working women need to be paid equally for equal work, need more contribution from men in running chores around the home, need to get enough maternity benefits et all. Today's woman wants to fight war for her country, but is put down as a 'distraction' for her male colleagues. Feminism is still the need of the hour.

So while condemning 'feminazis', we need to acknowledge the fact that there are still men out here who complain about the increasing mainstreaming of women's equality and think all feminists as man-haters. There are many guys out there in the community who are uncomfortable with a working woman, think child rearing and house-tending is solely a woman's duty, think virginity is a virtue for a woman before marriage (while they can sleep around with many), blame women solely for failed marriages etc etc. I personally know of a few men (in my extended family) who are totally devoted to their mother but blame their 'modern' wives for anything and everything.

So yeah, two sides to every coin....

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Feminism is basically a subservient cult for all non white women who want to be recognised by extremist white women who have already reached the pinnacle of equality

I.e , the white saviour complex

 

[Swanny]

So feminists have protested against use of 'man' or 'men' in titles to encourage girls & women to join those fields for eg policemen becomes police officer, firemen becomes fire fighter, heck they even protested against 'Men at work' sign at construction sites becoz it was apparently sexist.

Applying the same logic to the term 'feminism' are they telling us that it's a movement for women's rights or that men need not apply ?

 

[ahsan17]

So feminists have protested against use of 'man' or 'men' in titles to encourage girls & women to join those fields for eg policemen becomes police officer, firemen becomes fire fighter, heck they even protested against 'Men at work' sign at construction sites becoz it was apparently sexist.

Applying the same logic to the term 'feminism' are they telling us that it's a movement for women's rights or that men need not apply ?

They clearly don't have a problem with terms that have the male gender embedded in them and have a negative connotation associated to them. "gunmen" for example.

 

[Itachi]

That's not feminism. That's misoandry steming from husband cheating and abuse from father or otherwise.

 

[Swanny]

I recommend all to see the foll. video especially the feminists who claim how opressive patriarchy & men were.

http://www.google.co.in/url?url=htt...outube&usg=AFQjCNEMEHBQP5THDIBqLINafqu2LTeDqA

Those evil opressive masters huh ?

 

[Robert]

Feminism is basically a subservient cult for all non white women who want to be recognised by extremist white women who have already reached the pinnacle of equality

I.e , the white saviour complex

So is empowering women of colour a bad thing?

 

[Adil_94]

Nowadays all you see is feminists wanting to get revenge on modern men for past injustices. A lot of them don't want equality but female superiority and this attitude is engrained in public thinking in the west. E.g the other day I was watching Wrestlemania 31 when Stephanie McMahon slaps the Rock and then goads him by saying are you gonna hit me a woman ? Where's the equality in that. You will see videos online where say a woman verbally abuses or physically abuses a man and people will just laugh. Some people have even had staged public fights to see how the public would react and lo and behold when the gf starts hitting or pushing her by most onlookers laugh n snigger. While when it's the other way around you see people rush in straight away to protect the poor weak woman. Also you see stories of women destroying an exes car house because they cheated or hitting them and all the comments are oh he deserved it. But when a woman cheats the man just has to take it on the chin.


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[Adil_94]

In third world societies gender equality movements are needed where misogyny sexism abuse is rampant. However in the west feminism has developed as a cult of male subordination so women can have men under their thumb. You look at most white guys in a relationship and they are whipped by their gf.


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[Adil_94]

They you can't hit a girl even if she's kicking the crap out if you attitude is something I hate.


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[Swanny]

In third world societies gender equality movements are needed where misogyny sexism abuse is rampant. However in the west feminism has developed as a cult of male subordination so women can have men under their thumb. You look at most white guys in a relationship and they are whipped by their gf.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We need gender equality not this feminist BS.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

So is empowering women of colour a bad thing?

If you end up arming them to the teeth so they self destruct when they ultimately feel uncomfortable in their own skin, then no it is not a bad weapon to have

 

[endymion248]

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

Ah yes, the ''I'm rich and glutonous enough to gorge myself like a pig therefore I'm oppressed'' movement.

 

[Swanny]

Lol guys we DONT need feminism we need movement for equality of gender.

Feminism is primarily a movement against patriarchy & NOT an equal rights movement.
This movement views men as evil oppressors & women as innocent victims always.

Any feminist attempting to deny it is like saying I'm an engineer but I dont agree with Newton's law or thermodynamics principle.

It's driving force is the masses developing an intense apathy towards men by proxy.

That's why they percieve anything male as something to be demolished.

The oppressive male myth has resulted in everthing from schools to courts to become sexist against men.

We need a system which isnt openly hostile & sexist against half the population.

 

[zabalestmsm]

"Kill all men" is definitely not a gender equality movement!

 

[zabalestmsm]

These mentioned movements may spread hatred! Cant promote gender equality! In our country women are valued a lot! Men must run a gender equality movement ha ha

 

[Deosai]

Can't we go back to the good ol' times when women would cook for their husbands bare feet and pregnant

God made women for men, that's their point of existence.




























I'm kidding

 

[Donal Cozzie]

"We've just struck a huge blow for equality by proving we're better than them"

- Leslie Knope

 

[Swanny]

"We've just struck a huge blow for equality by proving we're better than them"

- Leslie Knope

Women are the most affected by war becoz they lose their husbands, brothers, fathers
-Hillary Clinton, feminist

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Women are the most affected by war becoz they lose their husbands, brothers, fathers
-Hillary Clinton, feminist

lol, just so you know Ms Knope is a fictional character from a TV show I like, who is also hilarious, I just heard her say that in an episode and thought it was funny

But yeah thats a shocking quote by Clinton if true

 

[Swanny]

^ It's crazy how men's lives are less important than a woman's feelings.

 

[Cochin_wala]

Be a feminist or not, women find many reason to hate men. Feminism just adds fuel to the fire. Feminism is not about equality, but it is a movement to organize women to be against men by using men to crush men altogether.

 

[Syed2015]

I prefer egalitarianism, instead of feminism.

 

[Syed2015]

To specialize my opinion, feminism only suits to societies, where women still being treated as second-class citizens (e.g -unfortunately- many muslim countries + a couple of countries in Africa & the subcontinent). Egalitarianism, on the other hand, suits to societies where the fight for women's rights is being hijacked by these so called "feminazis" (e.g the organization "Femen"), who are ignoring every disadvantage of the male gender, & are fighting for their own interests - mostly common in European countries.

 

[shaz619]

Feminism is its proper form is fine, equality should be our aim as a society.

Problem is modern feminism is a load of absolute ****ocks, pardon my french.

Discriminating against men isnt equality, acting like men are all evil rapists isnt equality, its total BS and any woman or man who prescribes to the above thoughts is an idiot.

And let me get this out of my system now (going into rant mode), this recent fad of women empowerment crap under the name of feminism is total and utter nonsense. Running a marathon with your period running down your legs isnt "empowerment", it isnt a celebration of the natural form, its bloody disgusting/attention seeking. If Mo Farah ran a marathon with crap running down his legs he wouldnt be applauded by men for celebrating a natural function, quit this garbage.

And dont get me started on this gender quota stuff we see these days. Oh whats that? Their should be equal men and women in politics? Nice idea, but the reality is more men are interested in running for office than women. Even then why not have gender quotas for contruction?sewage?binmen? nurses? teachers? Ah but they're either a)not glamourous or b) full of women, which is fine because only men can be sexist

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

*Deep breath*

That type of feminism does exist but main-stream media give the bigots all the spotlight whilst advocating narrow minded views which are inconsistent with gender equality. This behaves as a chain-effect and you have peeps believing that feminism is all about hating on men whilst brainwashing the masses into having a perception which considers a man to be Iblees himself.

 

[shaz619]

In the end all of this is pointless because you could be in your comfy home performing activism duties on a forum, twitter or whatever; half way across the planet a village idiot pathan in afghanistan is locking his wife up in a cupboard or something. How are we solving cultural problems which are innate? that too in a different country. Revolutions bring change through protest I guess but it is unlikely where the norm and way of life is as such that the man is always considered to be superior to the woman, this is the biggest issue especially amongst the poor who don't have access to knowledge and resources which would change their view plus they are always dependent on the man being in a helpless situation and at times the male can take advantage of his position and abuse the female.

In the UK generally all is good but amongst the minorities, asian family's in particular there is gender inequality and the female is extremely helpless at times and is forced to put up with abuse given her innate cultural views which see divorce as a big humiliation being done to her and her side of the family, chances of getting marriage again are also unlikely as she becomes some kind of undesirable stench and also because she has children.

It's a messed up world, all these people are screwed and we can't do anything impactful that's the truth. Giving big speeches on a forum or twitter makes us feel better, as if we are actually making a difference but that's not the case.

 

[Geralt of Rivia]

In the end all of this is pointless because you could be in your comfy home performing activism duties on a forum, twitter or whatever; half way across the planet a village idiot pathan in afghanistan is locking his wife up in a cupboard or something. How are we solving cultural problems which are innate? that too in a different country. Revolutions bring change through protest I guess but it is unlikely where the norm and way of life is as such that the man is always considered to be superior to the woman, this is the biggest issue especially amongst the poor who don't have access to knowledge and resources which would change their view plus they are always dependent on the man being in a helpless situation and at times the male can take advantage of his position and abuse the female.

In the UK generally all is good but amongst the minorities, asian family's in particular there is gender inequality and the female is extremely helpless at times and is forced to put up with abuse given her innate cultural views which see divorce as a big humiliation being done to her and her side of the family, chances of getting marriage again are also unlikely as she becomes some kind of undesirable stench and also because she has children.

It's a messed up world, all these people are screwed and we can't do anything impactful that's the truth. Giving big speeches on a forum or twitter makes us feel better, as if we are actually making a difference but that's not the case.

true

also I have seen in some places that women dominate and the men struggle

 

[shaz619]

true

also I have seen in some places that women dominate and the men struggle

Yeah it works both ways

 

[Swanny]

In the end all of this is pointless because you could be in your comfy home performing activism duties on a forum, twitter or whatever; half way across the planet a village idiot pathan in afghanistan is locking his wife up in a cupboard or something. How are we solving cultural problems which are innate? that too in a different country. Revolutions bring change through protest I guess but it is unlikely where the norm and way of life is as such that the man is always considered to be superior to the woman, this is the biggest issue especially amongst the poor who don't have access to knowledge and resources which would change their view plus they are always dependent on the man being in a helpless situation and at times the male can take advantage of his position and abuse the female.

In the UK generally all is good but amongst the minorities, asian family's in particular there is gender inequality and the female is extremely helpless at times and is forced to put up with abuse given her innate cultural views which see divorce as a big humiliation being done to her and her side of the family, chances of getting marriage again are also unlikely as she becomes some kind of undesirable stench and also because she has children.

It's a messed up world, all these people are screwed and we can't do anything impactful that's the truth. Giving big speeches on a forum or twitter makes us feel better, as if we are actually making a difference but that's not the case.

Again we cant fight misogyny with misandry. We cant have a system where one everything from school, work place to courts looks at one sex as evil & other as innocent which is the core principle of feminism.

 

[Monday Morning]

I like how the OP thought a sports forum comprising mostly of people from patriarchal societies is a good place to start a debate on feminism

Anyhoo, I dislike those who espouse the "All Men Are Evil" philosophy myself. But, let's be honest we've treated women terribly as a species even until now. All the countries in the world agreed to sever ties with South Africa over its treatment of non-White citizens. Saudi Arabia hasn't allowed women to vote until 2015 but hey everyone and his dog is friends with them. And if someone answers, "But but they have oil" then you're why feminism exists. Because men didn't think it necessary to fight for the rights of women, they had to do it themselves and as with everything else, some of them have veered off track and have become what we fondly call feminazis.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

I like how the OP thought a sports forum comprising mostly of people from patriarchal societies is a good place to start a debate on feminism

Anyhoo, I dislike those who espouse the "All Men Are Evil" philosophy myself. But, let's be honest we've treated women terribly as a species even until now. All the countries in the world agreed to sever ties with South Africa over its treatment of non-White citizens. Saudi Arabia hasn't allowed women to vote until 2015 but hey everyone and his dog is friends with them. And if someone answers, "But but they have oil" then you're why feminism exists. Because men didn't think it necessary to fight for the rights of women, they had to do it themselves and as with everything else, some of them have veered off track and have become what we fondly call feminazis.

This thread seems to have drawn out the alternative views
Also nice to see people's a genders like you say when discussing such topics

You're point about Saudi Arabia is not too disimilar to Richard Dawkins when he said Islam needs a feminist revolution and was famously rebutted by Fatima Bhutto

 

[aloo paratha]

Feminism is its proper form is fine, equality should be our aim as a society.

Problem is modern feminism is a load of absolute ****ocks, pardon my french.

Discriminating against men isnt equality, acting like men are all evil rapists isnt equality, its total BS and any woman or man who prescribes to the above thoughts is an idiot.

And let me get this out of my system now (going into rant mode), this recent fad of women empowerment crap under the name of feminism is total and utter nonsense. Running a marathon with your period running down your legs isnt "empowerment", it isnt a celebration of the natural form, its bloody disgusting/attention seeking. If Mo Farah ran a marathon with crap running down his legs he wouldnt be applauded by men for celebrating a natural function, quit this garbage.

And dont get me started on this gender quota stuff we see these days. Oh whats that? Their should be equal men and women in politics? Nice idea, but the reality is more men are interested in running for office than women. Even then why not have gender quotas for contruction?sewage?binmen? nurses? teachers? Ah but they're either a)not glamourous or b) full of women, which is fine because only men can be sexist

And lastly, if a woman is obese and fat, she isnt curvy, she isnt well fed, she's bloody fat. For christs sake grow up and accept it.

*Deep breath*

So true!

Last line made me laugh

 

[confused_amoeba]

Lot of aggrieved men on this forum lol. Never knew feminists can be so threatening. What is wrong with women empowerment and asking for equal rights. A real socioeconomic gender gap exists around the world, even in modern societies. What's the hyperventilation all about if some feminists have gone a bit overboard with their demands. Have men not exploited women for centuries. Can the real aggrieved party not be a bit exaggerated at times. All I see here is insecure men who even with their total domination refuse to let the other side get even an inch from them.

Its human rights above all. All are created equal and should be treated equally. In fact, women should be treated better as they deserve more for keeping up with egotistical jerks called men.

Ending on the immortal words by Katy Perry "I am a champion, and you're gonna hear me roar"

 

[Hail-Akram]

I dont care about the dictionary definition but about your own perception of the movement.

What's your opinion on the feminazis who have still operational twitter handles like 'Kill All Men' or go on to suggest that 'all men are rapists' ?

Interesting terminology for that kind of behavior . And I may agree with you on that terminology.

But friends, feminist movement is not something that should be associated with this feminazi behaviour.
Feminist movement is about creating a world where women are not discriminated against on the basis of gender - be it professional, religious, political or even domestic platform.

Historically, we have created a world where men have been considered superior to women, and the rights of women have been suppressed by creating rules on what they should do and what they shouldn't. Yes, there might be some "guidelines" for men, but there are strict rules for women. I have utmost respect and support people (both men and women) fighting to end this discrimination and striving to create a level-playing field.

 

[Mamoon]

There is no doubt that women deserve equality and gays and blacks should have equal rights as well. That cannot be contested. However, there is also no doubt that these people exploit way too much and are extremely quick/eager to play the victim card.

The day isn't far where we will be demanding rights for men, heterosexuals and whites.

In today's world, the most lethal and privileged combination is to be a black woman who also happens to be a lesbian. She can get away with pretty much everything.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

There is no doubt that women deserve equality and gays and blacks should have equal rights as well. That cannot be contested. However, there is also no doubt that these people exploit way too much and are extremely quick/eager to play the victim card.

The day isn't far where we will be demanding rights for men, heterosexuals and whites.

In today's world, the most lethal and privileged combination is to be a black woman who also happens to be a lesbian. She can get away with pretty much everything.

Just because she's a woman doesnt mean she's female you sexist pig. She could identify as a washing machine. Dont assume genders you mansplainer!!!

 

[confused_amoeba]

There is no doubt that women deserve equality and gays and blacks should have equal rights as well. That cannot be contested. However, there is also no doubt that these people exploit way too much and are extremely quick/eager to play the victim card.

The day isn't far where we will be demanding rights for men, heterosexuals and whites.

In today's world, the most lethal and privileged combination is to be a black woman who also happens to be a lesbian. She can get away with pretty much everything.

I don't believe in stereotyping. Black people get a bad rep for abusing their victimhood but they are also subjected to the most racist acts by police etc. Gays are abused and made fun off anywhere other than Hollywood.

I think what you are referring to is the culture of victimhood nowadays where being a victim is considered a badge of honor. It's to be worn around one's neck and displayed at every opportunity to gain sympathy and respect. But the worst part is when they use victimhood to become the moral police and try to shut down free speech, opinions and art. It's become a profession for many to just go around shaming others for saying this or writing that. Its suffocating and equivalent to fascistic behavior. Millenials are most guilty of that however, its not totally exclusive to them.

 

[aloo paratha]

I personally think that feminism is not needed in the west at all. What do men have that women don't have? If a feminism movement is trying to help 3rd world countries I am more than happy to support that.

Most these western feminists say they want equality but really by their actions it's evident that all they want is women to win everything. Some of them are crazy, I've seen phone cases that say "Mens tears give me life" and seen in many places on social media people saying "kill all men". What type of equality is this??? It's hypocrisy when you say you want equality between genders but then rip men apart.

 

[world cup captain]

This thread seems to have drawn out the alternative views
Also nice to see people's a genders like you say when discussing such topics

You're point about Saudi Arabia is not too disimilar to Richard Dawkins when he said Islam needs a feminist revolution and was famously rebutted by Fatima Bhutto

I don't how anything he said was wrong. Do you mind expanding on this?

 

[Someguy]

Premise of gender equality by its very nature is flawed. How can two species that are iherently different and unequal in different spheres be "made" into equal? Certain things males and females are not built to be equal and natually have therefore have never been equal in throughout human history. So the very premise is flawed. Feminisn is the worst thing to happen to the west and now women are stuck with paying the bills, raising ******* children by themselves, and also relsonsible for housework. How good has feminism been to women? Naturally, when u try to undo millions of yrs of history the results as equvilant to cross breeding.

 

[Thivagar]

I only claim that I'm a feminist when I'm chatting with my Tinder match.

 

[Moiza]

Premise of gender equality by its very nature is flawed. How can two species that are iherently different and unequal in different spheres be "made" into equal? Certain things males and females are not built to be equal and natually have therefore have never been equal in throughout human history. So the very premise is flawed. Feminisn is the worst thing to happen to the west and now women are stuck with paying the bills, raising ******* children by themselves, and also relsonsible for housework. How good has feminism been to women? Naturally, when u try to undo millions of yrs of history the results as equvilant to cross breeding.

I said almost the same stuff a few months back and got a pretty good roasting. Let see how it goes for you.

 

[Moiza]

i personally think that feminism is not needed in the west at all. What do men have that women don't have? If a feminism movement is trying to help 3rd world countries i am more than happy to support that.

Most these western feminists say they want equality but really by their actions it's evident that all they want is women to win everything. Some of them are crazy, i've seen phone cases that say "mens tears give me life" and seen in many places on social media people saying "kill all men". What type of equality is this??? It's hypocrisy when you say you want equality between genders but then rip men apart.

Good post. On another note, You are not a 14 year old, I dont believe it.

 

[aloo paratha]

Good post. On another note, You are not a 14 year old, I dont believe it.

I am,I promise

I'll take that as a compliment though.

 

[Robert]

I personally think that feminism is not needed in the west at all. What do men have that women don't have?

20% more pay for equal work, on average.

Disproportionately high representation in government and top teams in business.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There is no doubt that women deserve equality and gays and blacks should have equal rights as well. That cannot be contested. However, there is also no doubt that these people exploit way too much and are extremely quick/eager to play the victim card.

The day isn't far where we will be demanding rights for men, heterosexuals and whites.

In today's world, the most lethal and privileged combination is to be a black woman who also happens to be a lesbian. She can get away with pretty much everything.

I think LGBT rights are fine as long as they are not allowed to adopt children. Otherwise they should be equal under law but sadly outside of the West, their rights are not recognised at all.

 

[ahsan17]

20% more pay for equal work, on average.

Disproportionately high representation in government and top teams in business.

The wage gap myth has been beaten to death, dissected and busted multiple times. Even by government studies.

Yes there is a lack of female representation in government and executive positions. There is also a lack of female representation in mining, construction, garbage pickup, sewer cleaning, plumbing, etc. I'd love for feminists to campaign about the lack of equality in those areas just as much.

 

[Robert]

The wage gap myth has been beaten to death, dissected and busted multiple times. Even by government studies.

Hmmmmm.........