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ICC CT 2017 | Final : India vs Pakistan | 18th June, 2017 | The Oval | Pre-Match Thread

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I would replace Rumman with Shadab in your team. A leg spinner can always pick up wickets. Even though India is good against spin, 3 left handed pacers is too one dimensional. Shadab will make our tail shorter as well.
 
[MENTION=143627]thehub[/MENTION] where are you son?

Next time I tell you Pakistan are favourites, you sit down and listen to me, k? :akhtar
 
CricMylifr said:
C'mon boys

One final push.. one more great performance..

This could be such a great story...

A team that barely qualified for the tournament!!... was beat horribly in their first match...made an astonishing come back by winning the whole thing!!!
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I am so hyped for this!!!

Let's do this!!
 
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captain crook said:
Just the thought would induce shivers in Ind/Ban camps. Their batsmen can't face anything above waist bowled at over 140 clicks :))
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lol.. I like your posts.. Just check what happened to your phaast bowlers against India in the last match while your great batsmen almost lost the match against Srilankan pace attack.

I would like to see how Pakistan batsmen handle Umesh and Shami in the finals if India qualify.
 
IamIndian said:
lol.. I like your posts.. Just check what happened to your phaast bowlers against India in the last match while your great batsmen almost lost the match against Srilankan pace attack.

I would like to see how Pakistan batsmen handle Umesh and Shami in the finals if India qualify.
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I am 100% sure that both Shami and Umesh won't be picked for the finals
 
Couch Cricketer said:
We can't use 5 fast bowlers and selecting 5 of them would be stupid anyway. Spinners had a huge role in yesterday's match they were the ones that tied down the english batting. And because of them bowling from 10-20 overs the balls were roughed up for our fast bowlers to get reverse swing. Playing 5 fast bowlers will mean all our bowlers will be gun barrel straight for 30 overs and we would have given away 150-180 in the first 30 overs before reverse swing comes into effect. And the best ball maker in our team is Imad wasim
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I can bet some of the fast bowlers can bowl cross seam and scuff it up quickly for reverse swing... We still have Hafeez for left handers and he wasn't utilized in India game. We need Faheem for late order hitting, ruman for death overs, junaid and amir for new balls. Next game is in Oval, not in Cardiff...
 
shadab or imad should be dropped for amir, because india plays spinners better than pacers

few days ago pakistan couldnt complete its bowling line up but today they have got o many options, faheem, shadab, imad, rumman, amir, junaid, hasan, even hafeez is chipping in with his economical overs etc
 
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KamranDestiny said:
Sorry if i sound stupid asking this, but what exactly Imad does to rough up the ball for reverse swing ? I mean is it something so 'special' that Hafeez or other spinners can't do ? What exactly he does ? I've been hearing about it a lot the entire day so it would be very nice of you if you could explain, thanks.
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1) he takes care of the ball

2) while bowling he undercuts the ball which other spinners dont do. This makes it more easy to rough up the ball on one side.
 
Napa said:
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that India as group toppers would win. But no chance of that happening. Rain is predicted in the range of 2% to 6%. Many games with rain predicted between 30% to 70% were actually completed.
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I think there is a reserve day in case of rain. Or is there not?
 
IamIndian said:
lol.. I like your posts.. Just check what happened to your phaast bowlers against India in the last match while your great batsmen almost lost the match against Srilankan pace attack.

I would like to see how Pakistan batsmen handle Umesh and Shami in the finals if India qualify.
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Pakistan were not settled then and were very raw during that game. Now it is a different ball game with Hasan, AMir finiding their radar (they were not too bad even in the first game) and India's nemesis :junaid back in form. Kohli must be having few sleepless nights. But hey, first try and qualify for the final, I'm expecting Bangla boys to whoop your superstar .:yk3:akhtar:asif
 
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badsha001 said:
I think Pakistan should play all 5 pacers in Final game regardless of the opposition. It will be something which might surprise the opposition.

My teams for Final will be

Fakhar
Azhar
Babar
Hafeez
Malik
Sarfraz
Ashraf
Amir
Hassan
Junaid
Ruman

Who cares if Sarfraz will be fined for slow over rate as long as Pakistan win the trophy...
What do you guys say?
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I liked Rumman a lot. More than Amir frankly.

But a one dimensional attack can backfire spectacularly.

India does not necessarily play spin better than pace. Check out Kohli's recent record against Sodhi and Santner.

But also, People have to ask themselves, how come pakistani pacers have found swing when no one else has?

I'd play Imad over Hafeez because he's been expert at scuffing up the ball

Shadab too me could have taken 3 wickets easily in the last game. Has looked dangerous throughout.

Hafeez is not a real wicket taking option Iam afraid to say. Wish he could be
dropped
 
vs India:
Well, in 2011, we almost won the SF (BCCI tampering the DRS* and dropped catches to blame tho).

It could have been out of this world lifting the world cup in India.

This time, Indian team (if they beat BDesh), will be favorites in final and there won't be any pressure on Pak. We might the CT 2017.

vs BDesh:
We won the Asia cup final vs them. But no one (India and Pak) should underestimate this BD team. They give it all on the field. As a Pak fan I want them in final. Hate India.




*BCCI did tamper the DRS. This is my opinion and is based on all the time wasting that happened from the moment it was referred until the actual ball trajectory was showed on TV. Also the way bowler, umpire and batsman were bemused... Agree or disagree I'll never care.

Too much money was on the line that day. BCCI did what they had to do.
 
It's amazing after all these years, few Pakistanis still believe the BCCI tampered with the DRS....lol

There are many who believe Pakistan won too many games due to biased umpiring and ball tampering. I guess we need to start talking about this as well
 
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we need ruman . india have no idea about him . his death bowling will be essential
india wont give wicets to shadab . so i think lets have pace pace pace and we have 2 spinners also
 
roshanrocks said:
It's amazing after all these years, few Pakistanis still believe the BCCI tampered with the DRS....lol

There are many who believe Pakistan won too many games due to biased umpiring and ball tampering. I guess we need to start talking about this as well
Click to expand...

It's even funnier if you actually see the video of that ball, ball was clearly going down the leg. Apparently, every Pakistani loss is due to outstanding factors and never because opposition played better on that given day and if some other team fans do the same, they are being a crybaby. :yk
 
Don't know about 2011 SF, but I am fairly certain that PCB tampered DRS against South Africa. No way that ball of Tahir to Babar was going over the stumps. It was a collusion between ICC and PCB to make sure Pakistan is in the final for massive TV ratings as India was well on their way to reach the final unless of any upset. And yeah the umpire, SA players and Babar himself were surprised seeing it go over the stumps. In this case, there is nothing to disagree here. You have to agree and accept the conspiracy.
 
Your Pakistan XI for CT 2013 Final!

and why?

For me

Zaman
Azhar
Babar
Hafeez
Malik
Sarfaraz
Imad
Fahim
Hasan
Amir
Rumman Raees

Some big calls from my side

Fahim Ashraf plays instead of Shadab. India are good against spinners so playing 3 doesnt seem the best move. And I liked the look of Fahim so can be a good option as 4th seamer. Also looked decent with the bat before his stupidity.

Shadab was good against England and looked really good against India earlier. But as I said I don't want a spinner overkill so Fahim gets the nod. Hence, One of Imad Wasim or Shadab has to sit out. Shadab's the better spinner but Imad (despite horrible form) is clearly the more equipped batsman in my mind. I dont think Shadab will make as many chances against an Indian batting line up whereas Imad definitely wont make wicket taking chances but is more likely to atleast match, if not better, Shadab in terms of economy rate.

Its a big call and may backfire but I want some more batting options and I think Imad offers that more. And who knows that he might hit some form (if you look at law of averages).

Now the second big call. Rumman Raees instead of Junaid. Junaid has taken wickets but his wickets largely have been against batsman looking to be aggressive. However he can still get a tonking and did go for runs from time to time even despite the wickets. Rumman I think will definitely be more economical.

The selections may backfire and are a tad defensive but I would go with these.

Against India our batting ALWAYS collapses in ICC tournaments so I want a long batting lineup and more options.

Your thoughts and your 11.
 
i dont have any idea why i said CT 2013. Mods please fix
 
You need to find a way to dismiss Tamim Iqbal early. If he gets a ton that usually puts the total well out of Pakistan's reach should they chase.
 
Varun said:
You need to find a way to dismiss Tamim Iqbal early. If he gets a ton that usually puts the total well out of Pakistan's reach should they chase.
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lol actually i didnt even realize that the 2nd semi final hasnt even happened and its not confirmed that india are in it
 
Slog said:
lol actually i didnt even realize that the 2nd semi final hasnt even happened and its not confirmed that india are in it
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Exactly.

Our win-loss record against Bangladesh over the last few years is decidedly mediocre. There's little guarantee we'll even make the finals.
 
CT 2017 final at The Oval

Matches Played 64
Matches Won by Home Side 26 (40.63%)
Matches Won by Touring Side 17 (26.56%)
Matches Won by Neutral Side 19 (29.69%)
Matches Tied 0 (0.00%)
Matches with No Result 2 (3.13%)
Highest Individual Innings 162 J J Roy 2016 England v Sri Lanka
Best Bowling 6/42 Umar Gul 2010 England v Pakistan
Highest Team Innings 398/5 New Zealand 2015 v England
Lowest Team Innings 103 England 1999 v South Africa
Highest Run Chase Achieved 322/3 Sri Lanka 2017 v India
Average Runs per Wicket 33.27
Average Runs per Over 4.90
21 times bowler took more than 4 wickets and only two times Pakistan involved
34 times batsman cross 100 runs and only two times Pakistani did that
Pakistan Played 9 Matches and won only 2 both time batting first
37 times team batting second won the match
Dhawan from India love this ground with a score of 305 at an average of 152.5
R. Jadeja had 8 wickets in 4 matches with an economy rate of 4.83

What you recommend to Pakistan to bat first or bowl
 
Bat first or chase vs India?

Different ground and the pressure of a final.

Tough decision I think.
 
Congratulations India on retaining your trophy.

They're well ahead in the game against Bangladesh, who look like they'll fold for 240 and we know this ATG Indian batting lineup will have no trouble chasing a total like that.

India then play Pakistan in the final and we all know how that ends up in ICC tournaments. The fans couldn't have dreamt a more perfect SF and Final passage to the trophy.

The bowling is good, varied and disciplined. You've got the line/length of Bhuvi and the unorthodox pace of Bumrah. You've got a right arm offspinner, you've got a left arm offspinner, there's just so much variety to the attack. This is complemented by brilliant fielding, how often do you see India dropping catches in encounters with Pakistan as opposed to Pakistan who seek to drop 2/3 a game.

The top 3 is in fine form and they'll be supremely confident. What a side this is, to retain the CT is no small feat.

So from the other side of the border, congratulations parosis on retaining your title.

Very well deserved.
 
Shouldn't there be ban on such threads. No match is won or lost before it's played.
 
RWAC said:
Jinx thread?
Click to expand...

No jinxing here bro, if India don't win the tournament from here, I'll run to the top of my road naked and back. It's a long road too, goes to like number 300.

This is a cakewalk for them now.
 
Something to keep in mind, we haven't won against India since Afridi hit two sixes off Ashwin. We lost to them in the 2014 T20 WC, 2015 WC, 2016 Asia cup, 2016 T20 WC and 2017 CT.
 
I hope the Pakistan team doesn't have the same garbage mentality as OP
 
London_Lahori said:
No jinxing here bro, if India don't win the tournament from here, I'll run to the top of my road naked and back. It's a long road too, goes to like number 300.

This is a cakewalk for them now.
Click to expand...

Promise that you will be posting the video !!!!!
 
London_Lahori said:
No jinxing here bro, if India don't win the tournament from here, I'll run to the top of my road naked and back. It's a long road too, goes to like number 300.

This is a cakewalk for them now.
Click to expand...

Uhhh...some India fans might prefer losing then :p
 
London_Lahori said:
No jinxing here bro, if India don't win the tournament from here, I'll run to the top of my road naked and back. It's a long road too, goes to like number 300.

This is a cakewalk for them now.
Click to expand...

Dude i bookmark this. Lets if your a man and keep your word.

Pak will beat any team come the final. They are in the zone... no stopping.
 
Your Team against india ?

Is it wise to play Shadab Khan against india ? I wouldn't bet on him and rather play Faheem Ashraf. We all know how yasir shah gamble played in 2015 against india when kohli and co. were wacking him all parts of the ground. Shadab is still pitching one short ball/over which can be very very costly.

Amir in place of Rumman Raees its a no brain even though unfair to him, bowled decent spell against England. If hafeez to bowl against india i'll drop imad as we know what he did against India and play extra batter, they just feast on spinners of his caliber.

Azhar Ali
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam
Mohammad hafeez
Harris Sohail <-------------- in for imad wasim
Shoaib Malik
Sarfraz Ahmed
Faheem Ashraf <----------- in for shadab khan
Mohammad Amir
Hassan Ali
Junaid Khan


Bowlers Over
Mohammad Amir 10
Junaid Khan 10
Hassan Ali 10
Mohammad Hafeez 10
Faheem Ashraf 5
Shoaib Malik 5
 
It's going to be a dead wicket and you would be foolish to play so many bowlers. You better stack the batting lineup.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Fakhar Zaman
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Hafeez
5. Shoaib Malik
6. Sarfraz Ahmed
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Imad Wasim
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Hasan Ali
11. Junaid Khan

Two changes:

IN - Faheem Ashraf and Mohammad Amir
OUT - Ruman Raees and Shadab Khan

I can't believe the amount of silly thinking in here about stacking the bowling lineup instead of the batting and also playing a front line spinner vs India! They can smack spinners.
 
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What should be Pakistan's Team change/s for CT Final on Sunday?

Looks like its a Finale with India & this time Pakistan has to play out of their skins to threaten India.
So should we drop 'out of the box' Imad Wasim & bring in Amir who is also a good batsman.That would mean we will have four pacers Amir,Rumman,Junaid & Hassan.
I would also love Fahim Ashraf to play the final as a surprise package.Considering Hafeez & Azhar played well in the previous game, should we drop Malik to accomodate Fahim or is that a risky option? Thoughts?
 
I am happy with what the captain picks.

From what I understand you can be reassured that Azahr, hafeez and Malik will play.

I am a bit unsure if shadab should play or not. It is not an easy decision by any means. Rumman did well too. But the captain seems to see Amir as a main bowler and will play him if he is fit.

I don't think Faheems bowling is good enough yet for the big stage. He ofcourse is a handy bat. But to chase a big target you need more than a handy bat. Since our plan is to restrict them to a low score and not to chase a big target it's better if we play our best bowlers, hence I wouldn't pick him.
 
i would never replace shadab with faheem as shadab is an attacking wicket taking option whereas india will not let a bowler like fahim bowl cheap overs or get wickets. we hace won matches on our bowling performances so only wicket takers are the way forward....
 
This will ensure a win against India..!

1) Hire a psychologist to help our players.(I repeat hire a psychologist): This will make a huge difference.
2) Drop Imad, Shadab and Hafeez: Not because these guys are bad, but they may be low on confidence after not so good game against India.
Bring in Faheem Ashraf, Haris Sohail and Amir.
3) Ashwin in the bowling will be huge difference.
 
Regardless of whether M Amir plays or not, Junaid Khan has to bowl the 1st over against India!

hope the team management is reading this. Junaid will hopefully set the tone for a thriller on Sunday!
I would personally drop Imad and bring in Amir.
 
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Pak Playing XI for the Final v India - CT 2017

Azhar
Fakhar
Babar
Hafeez
Malik
Sarfaraz
Faheem
Amir
Shahdab
Hassan
Junaid

I think we need to beef up our batting a little bit in the all important final vs India. Remember, India is the only other team that has done extremely well in the bowling dept. so need to respect that.

I have replaced Imad with Faheem - since Indians can play spinner like Imad very easily. Imad is a left-handed-kumble type bowler & I am sure the Indian coach would have got his batsman practice the ins-and-outs of facing Imad.

Even though Rumman played extremely well in the SF v Eng, we need to bring Amir back for three reasons:
- More swing initially (hopefully he can get Rohit out early this time);
- Better batsman;
- More experienced

But we should definately keep Rumman in our first choice 14/15 pool of players. He is a gem. So happy to see that our bench is stronger than I initially thought

Babar, Malik and Hafeez - These guys really need to step up and perform in this all-important final vs India.

Fielding - has to be top-notch if we are to stand a chance vs India. We let our bowlers down with our fielding, then thats it...game over.
 
Bring back Umesh/Shami or continue with Ashwin in finals?

Umesh did well till he played especially against Pakistan. He deserves a comeback or should we continue with Ash in finals?
 
Stick with this team. There's nothing at the OVAL for the Phashties. Ashwin brings a dynamic with the bowl and extra support with the bat. Hardik's bowling can be exposed but that's why there is Jadhav and Yuvi in the team.
 
Who are Pakistan's key batsman in chasing or setting 300+ at the Oval?

Let's face it. A newly laid motorway made of marble will have more to offer the bowlers than the Oval pitch come Sunday.

For Pakistan to win we must be prepared to post or chase 300+. Yes our bowling has been tremendous but it is infantile to assume we will limit the Indian batsmen to scores under 300. Can happen but we shouldn't base our strategy on that.

Team selection is key regarding the batting line up. These batsman for me are a must selection:

Hafeez: He is due a big knock. A big match player that will flourish under pressure. The professor will be aided by a lifeless pitch. Yes he has not turned up with the bat but you cant keep a good man down. Plus his testing offspin is something the Indians rarely encounter. This will be vital experience for the professor for the next world cup.

Imad: This chap has a certain x factor about him. I expect fireworks from him with the bat at the tailend of our innings. Those guns are too big not to fire.

Azhar Ali: A natural stroke player. Someone who can anchor an innings. He may take time to settle but once set he is a fluent scorer whos fabled strike rotation will keep our run rate in check.
 
Fast bowlers against Pak is the way to go forward imo. Ashwin is a liability in the field as well.
 
Not sure whether Ashwin and Shami are fully fit. Can't afford more liabilities in the field. Better to go with Umesh.
 
Your playing XI for the final?

Just bring M.Amir in place of Imad and open the bowling with Hasan and Amir for first 6/8 overs then rotate them with Junaid and Raees.

Your choices?
 
Ash still not 100%. Might turn out to be a liability in the field like today.
 
It's going to be a dead wicket and you would be foolish to play so many bowlers. You better stack the batting lineup.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Fakhar Zaman
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Hafeez
5. Shoaib Malik
6. Sarfraz Ahmed
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Imad Wasim
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Hasan Ali
11. Junaid Khan

Two changes:

IN - Faheem Ashraf and Mohammad Amir
OUT - Ruman Raees and Shadab Khan

I can't believe the amount of silly thinking in here about stacking the bowling lineup instead of the batting and also playing a front line spinner vs India! They can smack spinners.

Not playing Faheem would mean 100% loss. We need to score BIG.
 
ar2020 said:
It's going to be a dead wicket and you would be foolish to play so many bowlers. You better stack the batting lineup.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Fakhar Zaman
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Hafeez
5. Shoaib Malik
6. Sarfraz Ahmed
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Imad Wasim
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Hasan Ali
11. Junaid Khan

Two changes:

IN - Faheem Ashraf and Mohammad Amir
OUT - Ruman Raees and Shadab Khan

I can't believe the amount of silly thinking in here about stacking the bowling lineup instead of the batting and also playing a front line spinner vs India! They can smack spinners.
Click to expand...

Imad should be out not Shadab
 
I personally feel, we need shami/Umesh in mid overs as malik and hafeez can make mince meat of spinners. On the other hand, Ashwin have some variations up his sleeves and have a knack of breaking partnerships.

I say, let's stick to this combination and replace Ashwin with Rahane while fielding. Hope, Ashwin will come good in finals, too big a player to not show up when it matters.
 
Irrespective of how well your team bowls to our bats or vice versa the one constant fear I have is how your batters play. Even if India does not have any clue as to how to get them out they always find new and improved ways of getting out against the run of play and this quality really puts the opposition in a difficult position.
 
Yes agreed. You can count on our batmans to "think outside of the box" and attempt to disrupt the rhythm of your bowlers by gifting their wickets innovatively.
 
I'm afraid of Fakhar running of to a quickfire 70+ score. His batting is what provides Pakistan a cushion around which the other Tuk-Tuk-ers can slowly build scores and hafees can come and hit some boundaries. Sarfaraz alone won't take you to a good score. SO getting Fakhar out early is Key !
 
Will need Fakhar to stay in for a bit, give a boost to the innings. Hopefully, the other tuk tukers can then kick on.
 
SandyB said:
I'm afraid of Fakhar running of to a quickfire 70+ score. His batting is what provides Pakistan a cushion around which the other Tuk-Tuk-ers can slowly build scores and hafees can come and hit some boundaries. Sarfaraz alone won't take you to a good score. SO getting Fakhar out early is Key !
Click to expand...

Honestly, that's the key and with how Fakhar plays it's a bit of a gamble. He wasn't timing it all the well in the last game but was still hitting it hard so he plays very risky. If he does get to a quick 50-60 then we have a good base for the likes of Azhar/Azam to settle in.

Apart from Fakhar's quickfire runs, Babar Azam is the other key wicket for India. He always has a big innings i him.

My dark horse for this match however is going to be Shoaib Malik. Against India, I always fancy him to do well.
 
Whatever the lineup- Pakistan will lose, there's no high quality batsmen in the entire squad to chase down large scores. After the tournament; I sincerely hope they discard the hopeless duo of Hafeez and Malik for good.
 
its got to be Azam Malik or Hafeez if they get 100 Pak can score more than 300 batting first or chasing and they have good stats scoring century by any of the three batsmen means atleast 8 out of 10 times PAK wins
 
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