Ideas to propel Pakistan out of the economic crisis

[FearlessRoar]

Regardless of the political party you support in Pakistan, the economic crisis standing in front of Pakistan is devastating. There is a downpour of taxes. There is high inflation and downfall of energy sector. Ofcourse corrupt politicians and mafias are the ones who have brought our beloved country to this point.

My suggestions to bring pakistan out of this economy crisis are:

Firstly, we should initiate positive relations and trade with neighboring countries. It's essential to prioritize local brands and businesses. Focus on small and home industries to boost exports. Agricultural practices need advancement and expansion, addressing the impact of real estate development on affected agricultural areas is crucial. Efforts should be made to reduce tax evasion and enhance government revenue. Bureaucratic processes need streamlining. Eradicate terrorism in Pakistan to attract foreign investment. Negotiate with the IMF on debt restructuring options and recruit top-notch financial advisors in the finance ministry with practical experience in saving sinking economies.

What are your suggestions to bring Pakistan out of this devastating economic crisis?

 

[FearlessRoar]

@Major @Rana @Bewal Express @Savak @Cpt. Rishwat @mominsaigol @YousafTheBeast @Kianig89 @Sher Khan @Red-Indian @Pakpak

Share your ideas

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Simply remove the influence of aliens from the government, our country will start propelling.

 

[mominsaigol]

Regardless of the political party you support in Pakistan, the economic crisis standing in front of Pakistan is devastating. There is a downpour of taxes. There is high inflation and downfall of energy sector. Ofcourse corrupt politicians and mafias are the ones who have brought our beloved country to this point.

My suggestions to bring pakistan out of this economy crisis are:

Firstly, we should initiate positive relations and trade with neighboring countries. It's essential to prioritize local brands and businesses. Focus on small and home industries to boost exports. Agricultural practices need advancement and expansion, addressing the impact of real estate development on affected agricultural areas is crucial. Efforts should be made to reduce tax evasion and enhance government revenue. Bureaucratic processes need streamlining. Eradicate terrorism in Pakistan to attract foreign investment. Negotiate with the IMF on debt restructuring options and recruit top-notch financial advisors in the finance ministry with practical experience in saving sinking economies.

What are your suggestions to bring Pakistan out of this devastating economic crisis?

Pfffttt yikes, I think you just asked me the most difficult question anyone has ever asked me, not just on PP but in my life in general. I'll try my best to answer, but because this is a political topic and a controversial one, if anyone reading my comments gets offended then I truly apologise as it was not my intention.

Business and Job opportunities

Firstly the problem lies in the fact that Pakistan has zero concepts of start up culture or Venture capitalism. If you look at USA aka the top 5 tech companies apple, Google, Microsoft, amazon and meta, their so powerful that they've influenced and changed the economy, Amazon alone employs over 1.3 million people worldwide.

Pakistan has no such startup cultural concept, yes their are a few companies such as MCB Packages limited etc that have made an impact but our youth isn't being encouraged or given any support to start and scale businesses that will improve our economy. (FYI, I work in the advertising industry, and trust me the impact of businesses on our economy is massive, but Pakistan doesn't understand this concept really).

All our industries such as tech, agriculture, b2b, advertising, mining minerals such as oil, coal etc, sugar and spice, robotics, engineering, gaming, entertainment, fashion, food and drinks, retail, real estate, farming, fashion, sports, media, law etc etc, everything is underdeveloped.

If every business is underdeveloped and not scalable, then economy gets effected as businesses create jobs so job markets get affected. No scale or Venture capitalism means that employers are unable to pay their employees more, Theirs a massive amount of unemployment as rising taxes from the government just cause more and more poverty.

The reason why I'm in Australia, heck the reason why almost 99% of people in my age group 18-24, just aspire to Leave Pakistan and go to a foreign university work and get a pr and settle is staggering. If you look at a country like UK none of their youth ever claims to migrate to a different country for study and pr, its because they already have a job market and a future to work in an industry that interests them.

Trust me, all problems get solved such as inflation, tax evasion etc if you just pay employees properly and that can only happen if businesses are able to scale and get more revenue.

Corruption

The Pakistani goverment just wants money in their own pocket. They increases taxes, put stricter laws on tax evasion policies( which their hilariously failing at) etc etc but refuse to increase employee pay? Lol.

Terrorism

This goes back to my first point, you need foreign iinvestors and venture captilism to scale and solve unemployment as well as scale our industries to international standards. But how are we suppose to do that?

Our country is advertised as a terrorist country, you're not gonna be able to convince shark tank level investors to just hop on board and broadcast a new television show.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Make peace with India completely.. but that ain't happening so nothing will work.

 

[Savak]

There are no quick solutions. India invested heavily in education, they supported their local industries and curbed luxury imports in the 90's and they reaped the rewards big time in 20-30 years.

 

[Kianig89]

Ensure every person works, promote local products first things to start with

 

[Mockingbird]

Declare bankruptcy & start afresh. Pak has no money left for its own population after covering the debt servicing.

 

[UP]

The very first and the most important one - the mafia establishment has to go back to barracks. Conduct free and fair elections and things will gradually start improving in 5 years.

 

[Red-Indian]

I could write essays on this subject but don't worry I won't since I fully realise nobody's interested in these dull economic subjects like I am. I'll stay away from figures.

Pakistan's key problem right now can be likened to a farmer who's eating his seeds rather than saving them for next harvest. In other words, there's very low capital investment to raise earning capacity and the country's literally living hand to mouth. This is not sustainable.

In the short term, not much can be done except follow the IMF prescription and live in austerity keeping imports low.

In the medium term, Pakistan's got to find some way to build capital stock. Could be in anything but obviously the best is highly labour-intensive manufacturing which has been proven over and over again in a dozen countries to be the fastest way to lift the population out of poverty.

I would divide this into 2 parts

- First creating infrastructure which is the State's job. Special Economic Zones close to ports with world class infrastructure and rule of law. Where will the money come from? Renegotiate loan repayments and

(Contd...)

 

[Red-Indian]

This is most key - a New Property Tax. There's too much unproductive money locked up in real estate - both urban and agricultural. It has to be loosened and uses.

Second getting the manufacturing into those zones. Focus on one source only - China. Already, there are a few products where it is getting expensive to manufacture with rising labour costs there. Locate them and tempt them over - friendly country, SEZs and diversification.

If Pakistan is able to achieve this and create the fiscal space for itself, it will open room for all the long term stuff that needs to be done - education investments, infrastructure investments, digitalisation etc. etc. There's so much work ahead. Pakistan today is 20 years behind India and 30+ years behind China. In some ways that's bad but in others an opportunity. It takes massive investment to increase growth in India by 1% and colossal investments in China to do the same thing but a small nudge could do it on the tiny base Pakistan has.

 

[Hitman]

Don't think those in helm of affairs in Pakistan care about their country's condition.

 

[BouncerGuy]

First of all, the People should do their job for what they were hired. 2ndly we as a nation as to take the responsibility of being fair. If we are not willing to change ourselves first, nothing is going to change.

 

[UP]

There are no quick solutions. India invested heavily in education, they supported their local industries and curbed luxury imports in the 90's and they reaped the rewards big time in 20-30 years.

The biggest difference why India has advanced so much in 30 years is because their Army stays within its limits. People’s mandate is respected.

 

[Hextro]

Kicking PDM out of power would be a good start. You won't find their supporters within a 10-mile radius of a thread about the economy for a reason.

And no, relations with Ind are not a cause or a solution.

 

[Buffet]

Over long term, no issue is more important than this.

-------------------

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

Education

Providing quality education to all

www.unicef.org

 

[NishanKonar]

Forget Kashmir, bury the hatchet with India, stop strategic mischief in Afghanistan & reduce your military budget by 50-70%. That will allow the govt to release funds for education, healthcare & infra. Focus on IT & services and try to improve forex levels by boosting exports

Yes its pretty simple. Except that the establishment will never let it happen

 

[Buffet]

Children out of school (% of primary school age) - South Asia

Pakistan - 27%

SL - 3%
Nepal - 1%
India - 1%
BD - 0%

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

--------------------

There is no reason for Pakistan to not have kids in school when all countries in the same region are doing everything they can to educate next generation. No one choses to to be born in certain country and it's not a fault of any kid to be born in Pakistan, but if they are born in Pakistan then they have a very high chance to not attend school. Education is key and as society we shouldn't fail next generation is such a huge way.

It will take 20 years of effort to reverse it otherwise socienty is failing the next generation. These kids are future.

 

[NishanKonar]

Children out of school (% of primary school age) - South Asia

Pakistan - 27%

SL - 3%
Nepal - 1%
India - 1%
BD - 0%

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

--------------------

There is no reason for Pakistan to not have kids in school when all countries in the same region are doing everything they can to educate next generation. No one choses to to be born in certain country and it's not a fault of any kid to be born in Pakistan, but if they are born in Pakistan then they have a very high chance to not attend school. Education is key and as society we shouldn't fail next generation is such a huge way.

It will take 20 years of effort to reverse it otherwise socienty is failing the next generation. These kids are future.

Bigger issue is those who are in school have high drop outs

Only about 50% schoolkids complete school

 

[JaDed]

Only if one idea could take countries out of mess.
A country is made up of its people, the people have to want the change and be patient for it.

 

[Buffet]

Bigger issue is those who are in school have high drop outs

Only about 50% schoolkids complete school

Reasons are the same. Many kids used to support their families by working as they got older in most developing countries. So droppping out is not surprising.

Having said that, most developing countries have turned it around and there is no reason for Pakistan to not do it. Country can go nowhere if half of the kids are out of school( not going any time + droppng out). This should be the main election issue for any elected leader.

 

[Stewie]

Pfffttt yikes, I think you just asked me the most difficult question anyone has ever asked me, not just on PP but in my life in general. I'll try my best to answer, but because this is a political topic and a controversial one, if anyone reading my comments gets offended then I truly apologise as it was not my intention.

Business and Job opportunities

Firstly the problem lies in the fact that Pakistan has zero concepts of start up culture or Venture capitalism. If you look at USA aka the top 5 tech companies apple, Google, Microsoft, amazon and meta, their so powerful that they've influenced and changed the economy, Amazon alone employs over 1.3 million people worldwide.

Pakistan has no such startup cultural concept, yes their are a few companies such as MCB Packages limited etc that have made an impact but our youth isn't being encouraged or given any support to start and scale businesses that will improve our economy. (FYI, I work in the advertising industry, and trust me the impact of businesses on our economy is massive, but Pakistan doesn't understand this concept really).

All our industries such as tech, agriculture, b2b, advertising, mining minerals such as oil, coal etc, sugar and spice, robotics, engineering, gaming, entertainment, fashion, food and drinks, retail, real estate, farming, fashion, sports, media, law etc etc, everything is underdeveloped.

If every business is underdeveloped and not scalable, then economy gets effected as businesses create jobs so job markets get affected. No scale or Venture capitalism means that employers are unable to pay their employees more, Theirs a massive amount of unemployment as rising taxes from the government just cause more and more poverty.

The reason why I'm in Australia, heck the reason why almost 99% of people in my age group 18-24, just aspire to Leave Pakistan and go to a foreign university work and get a pr and settle is staggering. If you look at a country like UK none of their youth ever claims to migrate to a different country for study and pr, its because they already have a job market and a future to work in an industry that interests them.

Trust me, all problems get solved such as inflation, tax evasion etc if you just pay employees properly and that can only happen if businesses are able to scale and get more revenue.

Corruption

The Pakistani goverment just wants money in their own pocket. They increases taxes, put stricter laws on tax evasion policies( which their hilariously failing at) etc etc but refuse to increase employee pay? Lol.

Terrorism

This goes back to my first point, you need foreign iinvestors and venture captilism to scale and solve unemployment as well as scale our industries to international standards. But how are we suppose to do that?

Our country is advertised as a terrorist country, you're not gonna be able to convince shark tank level investors to just hop on board and broadcast a new television show.

How can you have a startup culture or a thriving business environment when everything is controlled by the boots and their cronies.

I think in a nutshell the list you have can be narrowed down to just corruption.

The ones in charge were never meant to be in charge and they have no idea how to fix these things. So they put puppets in place who they think can solve these issues but the puppets don’t know either because they were also created by the ones in charge to think “their” way.

You remove them, you will fix a lot of issues. When the government starts acting the way it is supposed to with strong and independent courts, legislative and exec branches, all these problems will take care of themselves.

The next step would be to have people in charge with long term planning to increase pakistans exports, and developing industry without the over reliance on foreign control.

 

[UP]

How can you have a startup culture or a thriving business environment when everything is controlled by the boots and their cronies.

I think in a nutshell the list you have can be narrowed down to just corruption.

The ones in charge were never meant to be in charge and they have no idea how to fix these things. So they put puppets in place who they think can solve these issues but the puppets don’t know either because they were also created by the ones in charge to think “their” way.

You remove them, you will fix a lot of issues. When the government starts acting the way it is supposed to with strong and independent courts, legislative and exec branches, all these problems will take care of themselves.

The next step would be to have people in charge with long term planning to increase pakistans exports, and developing industry without the over reliance on foreign control.

Waiting for the day when the mafia establishment boots and PDM dakoo movement falls in its own grave in 12-24 months. IK knows this is a golden opportunity to send boots back to barracks so he is waiting this out in Adayala and passing time reading books.

Boots have to do their job within their constitutional limit in order to revive Pakistan. There’s absolutely no other way to get out of the mess. 75 years of boot rule has absolutely destroyed everything. When boots go back to barracks, free and fair elections will be held - other problems like educations and health will take care on its own.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Pfffttt yikes, I think you just asked me the most difficult question anyone has ever asked me, not just on PP but in my life in general. I'll try my best to answer, but because this is a political topic and a controversial one, if anyone reading my comments gets offended then I truly apologise as it was not my intention.

Business and Job opportunities

Firstly the problem lies in the fact that Pakistan has zero concepts of start up culture or Venture capitalism. If you look at USA aka the top 5 tech companies apple, Google, Microsoft, amazon and meta, their so powerful that they've influenced and changed the economy, Amazon alone employs over 1.3 million people worldwide.

Pakistan has no such startup cultural concept, yes their are a few companies such as MCB Packages limited etc that have made an impact but our youth isn't being encouraged or given any support to start and scale businesses that will improve our economy. (FYI, I work in the advertising industry, and trust me the impact of businesses on our economy is massive, but Pakistan doesn't understand this concept really).

All our industries such as tech, agriculture, b2b, advertising, mining minerals such as oil, coal etc, sugar and spice, robotics, engineering, gaming, entertainment, fashion, food and drinks, retail, real estate, farming, fashion, sports, media, law etc etc, everything is underdeveloped.

If every business is underdeveloped and not scalable, then economy gets effected as businesses create jobs so job markets get affected. No scale or Venture capitalism means that employers are unable to pay their employees more, Theirs a massive amount of unemployment as rising taxes from the government just cause more and more poverty.

The reason why I'm in Australia, heck the reason why almost 99% of people in my age group 18-24, just aspire to Leave Pakistan and go to a foreign university work and get a pr and settle is staggering. If you look at a country like UK none of their youth ever claims to migrate to a different country for study and pr, its because they already have a job market and a future to work in an industry that interests them.

Trust me, all problems get solved such as inflation, tax evasion etc if you just pay employees properly and that can only happen if businesses are able to scale and get more revenue.

Corruption

The Pakistani goverment just wants money in their own pocket. They increases taxes, put stricter laws on tax evasion policies( which their hilariously failing at) etc etc but refuse to increase employee pay? Lol.

Terrorism

This goes back to my first point, you need foreign iinvestors and venture captilism to scale and solve unemployment as well as scale our industries to international standards. But how are we suppose to do that?

Our country is advertised as a terrorist country, you're not gonna be able to convince shark tank level investors to just hop on board and broadcast a new television show.

Your points are good. In Pakistan, we have three major business empires, Dawood Hercules Group, Hashoo Group, and Nishat Group.

The Hashoo Group has total assets of US$3.8 billion, Dawood Hercules Group has revenue of US$22 million, and the Nishat Group's total assets are US$6 billion.

Comparatively, Amazon's revenue is significantly higher at US$574.8 billion, surpassing the combined assets of these Pakistani conglomerates.

Yes,Unfortunately, Pakistan faces challenges with its global image due to instances of terrorism. While Western media can be critical, but it's a reality that affects investment from major companies like Google and Amazon in Pakistan.

Initiatives like starting trade with neighboring countries, especially India, and focusing on promoting agricultural products over real estate can pave the way for economic growth. To tackle terrorism, identifying and eliminating the root cause, which is fanatic mentality. Though it may take time.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Make peace with India completely.. but that ain't happening so nothing will work.

Sure thing. Yes, making peace with India is crucial for us. The money spent on defense could be used to improve our economy and the lives of our people. While India may not see it as a pressing need, but it's a vital need of Pakistan.

 

[FearlessRoar]

There are no quick solutions. India invested heavily in education, they supported their local industries and curbed luxury imports in the 90's and they reaped the rewards big time in 20-30 years.

India has corruption too. But how they still managed to be such a big economy?

Well, there is one more thing which I see, which is that India don't have terrorism issues, that's why foreign investors don't hesitate to invest there. And one more thing, India has a stable democracy.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Ensure every person works, promote local products first things to start with

A quick solution is opening gates with neighboring countries so that their people can come here for investment and work and we can go there for investment and work, and promoting small industrial estates and home industries. And turning our prime focus on the agricultural field to enhance our exports.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The very first and the most important one - the mafia establishment has to go back to barracks. Conduct free and fair elections and things will gradually start improving in 5 years.

Let's move on and find ways to bring Pakistan out of this economic crisis. We don't have time now to fight a civil war. Let's just give Establishment a safe way out of this business.

 

[FearlessRoar]

I could write essays on this subject but don't worry I won't since I fully realise nobody's interested in these dull economic subjects like I am. I'll stay away from figures.

Pakistan's key problem right now can be likened to a farmer who's eating his seeds rather than saving them for next harvest. In other words, there's very low capital investment to raise earning capacity and the country's literally living hand to mouth. This is not sustainable.

In the short term, not much can be done except follow the IMF prescription and live in austerity keeping imports low.

In the medium term, Pakistan's got to find some way to build capital stock. Could be in anything but obviously the best is highly labour-intensive manufacturing which has been proven over and over again in a dozen countries to be the fastest way to lift the population out of poverty.

I would divide this into 2 parts

- First creating infrastructure which is the State's job. Special Economic Zones close to ports with world class infrastructure and rule of law. Where will the money come from? Renegotiate loan repayments and

(Contd...)

Your ideas are welcome.

You are right, that's what I'm emphasizing. Our agricultural field is our backbone. The government needs to revise its policy to give farmers some relief and funds.

In terms of the manufacturing industry, the development of small industrial estates is the most immediate requirement.

 

[DRsohail]

Nothing can help, its a matter of time. This country has no future, the earlier you van leave the better it is.

 

[DRsohail]

Simply remove the influence of aliens from the government, our country will start propelling.

May work a bit but overall not. Two families and The establishment has done enough damage.

 

[DRsohail]

Kicking PDM out of power would be a good start. You won't find their supporters within a 10-mile radius of a thread about the economy for a reason.

And no, relations with Ind are not a cause or a solution.

And few of their supporters like These fake docs and majors have been tagged here, come on man they are the part of problem, how van they put suggestions .

 

[FearlessRoar]

This is most key - a New Property Tax. There's too much unproductive money locked up in real estate - both urban and agricultural. It has to be loosened and uses.

Second getting the manufacturing into those zones. Focus on one source only - China. Already, there are a few products where it is getting expensive to manufacture with rising labour costs there. Locate them and tempt them over - friendly country, SEZs and diversification.

If Pakistan is able to achieve this and create the fiscal space for itself, it will open room for all the long term stuff that needs to be done - education investments, infrastructure investments, digitalisation etc. etc. There's so much work ahead. Pakistan today is 20 years behind India and 30+ years behind China. In some ways that's bad but in others an opportunity. It takes massive investment to increase growth in India by 1% and colossal investments in China to do the same thing but a small nudge could do it on the tiny base Pakistan has.

Wonderful ideas! This property tax will encourage people to use their properties more productively, rather than keeping them unused.

Your SEZ idea is perfect, but why just China? We can also invite India, Bangladesh, Iran Afghanistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

The revenue generated from this scheme, and how can we ensure that the government will invest this money in social welfare and the development of the country?

 

[Savak]

India has corruption too. But how they still managed to be such a big economy?

Well, there is one more thing which I see, which is that India don't have terrorism issues, that's why foreign investors don't hesitate to invest there. And one more thing, India has a stable democracy.

Indian Institutions i.e. Judiciary, Election Commission, Inquiry Commissions, Police are more trust worthy in comparison to Pakistan. In India the army truly stays in the Barracks, the Indian Army Chief who recently retired had total assets worth Rs 30 lakhs whereas Pakistan's last army chief who retired has assets worth Rs 13 billion. That tells you everything.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Over long term, no issue is more important than this.

-------------------

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

View attachment 142640

Education

Providing quality education to all

www.unicef.org

I wish we had followed the rules of Jinnah.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Forget Kashmir, bury the hatchet with India, stop strategic mischief in Afghanistan & reduce your military budget by 50-70%. That will allow the govt to release funds for education, healthcare & infra. Focus on IT & services and try to improve forex levels by boosting exports

Yes its pretty simple. Except that the establishment will never let it happen

We have lost the cause of Kashmir. and to cut down the defense budget, we need good relations with India, and it's a need of the time.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Children out of school (% of primary school age) - South Asia

Pakistan - 27%

SL - 3%
Nepal - 1%
India - 1%
BD - 0%

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

--------------------

There is no reason for Pakistan to not have kids in school when all countries in the same region are doing everything they can to educate next generation. No one choses to to be born in certain country and it's not a fault of any kid to be born in Pakistan, but if they are born in Pakistan then they have a very high chance to not attend school. Education is key and as society we shouldn't fail next generation is such a huge way.

It will take 20 years of effort to reverse it otherwise socienty is failing the next generation. These kids are future.

In Pakistan, education has become a business. There are 10 private schools in every street, while government schools are ineffective. Due to poverty, there is no motivation in anyone to go to school.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Nothing can help, its a matter of time. This country has no future, the earlier you van leave the better it is.

The country may seem to have no future, but it's not impossible to create a bright future for it. Running away from the problem is not the solution.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Hahah... Late Khadim Rizvi's easiest solution for you.

 

[Stewie]

Wonderful ideas! This property tax will encourage people to use their properties more productively, rather than keeping them unused.

Your SEZ idea is perfect, but why just China? We can also invite India, Bangladesh, Iran Afghanistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

The revenue generated from this scheme, and how can we ensure that the government will invest this money in social welfare and the development of the country?

You really think the establishment and their cronies will allow any such plans to be implemented in the country?

 

[Stewie]

If you have the right form of government (honest democratic leadership) a few things will happen straight away. Reformation of the main branches of government, proper taxation, lowered defense spending.

We need ti cut down the crazy ridiculous benefits of the armed forces, do a proper recovery of taxes from the elite/business class, and incentivize tax breaks for them if they invest in new business ventures that create more jobs and enhance exports of the country.

 

[Stewie]

Because right now the business class make their money in Pakistan with a goal to either invest overseas or send their families overseas. They also prefer to deal with overseas companies. Rather than importing expensive parts from abroad and selling them for profit at home, they should set up manufacturing in Pakistan so we don’t have to go outside. That should be the goal and the right government would incentivize such efforts. Currently the business class doesn’t feel the need to do any of it because the government allows all sorts of relaxations for them.

First start taxing them, then give them a way out if they invest domestically. That’s how most states do it.

 

[uppercut]

Only if one idea could take countries out of mess.
A country is made up of its people, the people have to want the change and be patient for it.

This is a highly under-rated post. A good example is the avg Indian parents zeal to get their children educated. One has to see that to believe it. No matter how corrupt or useless the govt is the people will do all sorts of jugaad to get their children a real good education. They will use force if needed to ensure that the kids get a real degree (This is the single biggest reason why India was never good at any sport for a long time as parents never looked at sports as a viable profession ). Infact they do not even rely on the govt for education. Most govt Primary/High schools have very poor facilities and there are just not enough of them to handle the massive population. This mentality is reflected in the stat posted by @Buffet where only 1% of kids in India are not in school.​

There are no quick solutions. India invested heavily in education, they supported their local industries and curbed luxury imports in the 90's and they reaped the rewards big time in 20-30 years.

The govt "Investing heavily" in education is a not entirely true. See my above reply to JaDed, India has always been a Sarawati worshipping population. Its always been in our culture, so what we are seeing today is not a result of a 30 year project. And I can assure you that the govt run schools in India have very poor facilities. Its only the IIT's and REC's (re-branded as NIT's ) and AIIMS and IIM's and IISc's that offer the higher education are top class, but vast majority of the output from those institutes invariably settle abroad and really does not benefit the county that much. The private sector accounts for most of education at all levels.

Also the corruption in India is on a different scale and permeates ALL facets of the society. While there might not be big army generals swindling the country on epic scale like they do in Pakistan but we do have many politicians who are so corrupt that it is hard to imagine.

So essentially india works despite what the Govt brings to the table. especially the past congress govt which actually bankrupted the country in about 40 yrs.. they had no choice but to liberalize the economy. So I wouldnt credit the Indian govt for taking that decision. That decision was made for them by the dire situtaion that was a direct result of the mindless socialism.​

However the current govt is faar more Pro-Development and the results are there to see, but still a long long way to go to become a truly developed country.

 

[mominsaigol]

It doesn't help that every person in my age group 18-24 aspires to get foreign education and get pr in another country like Canada, Australia, UK, Europe or USA.

I've never heard of a USA citizen leaving their country to study in Pakistan lol

 

[IMMY69]

The country may seem to have no future, but it's not impossible to create a bright future for it. Running away from the problem is not the solution.

I think you're either trying to save face or are just burying your head in the sand.

 

[mominsaigol]

The country may seem to have no future, but it's not impossible to create a bright future for it. Running away from the problem is not the solution.

But how do you convince the youth that?

Gen Z(1996-2012)
Gen alpha (2013-2024)

^^ They all have a collective hive mindset to just leave Pakistan via either studying for a degree and getting foreign work or marrying a Pakistani from abroad via family connections, and as ashamed as I am to admit it, I'm one of these people, I too went to study abroad and get a pr?

This collective hive mindset literally got developed because their was no future. The current generation is not interested in bettering a country run by corrupt officials, their interested in their own future hence they plan on leaving.

People want careers or their own businesses and their own family and their future children to have a good life.

 

[PakLFC]

First they asked us to drink less tea. Now they'll tell us to eat less roti!

 

[Red-Indian]

But how do you convince the youth that?

Gen Z(1996-2012)
Gen alpha (2013-2024)

^^ They all have a collective hive mindset to just leave Pakistan via either studying for a degree and getting foreign work or marrying a Pakistani from abroad via family connections, and as ashamed as I am to admit it, I'm one of these people, I too went to study abroad and get a pr?

This collective hive mindset literally got developed because their was no future. The current generation is not interested in bettering a country run by corrupt officials, their interested in their own future hence they plan on leaving.

People want careers or their own businesses and their own family and their future children to have a good life.

All that can be changed if you start with getting the basics right.

If you look at India in the 80s and early 90s, there was the same sense of despair. You only have to see Bollywood/Southen movies of the time to sense the national mood. Every hero is a 'first class first' who's 'berozgaar' and is eating 'dar dar ke thokar'.

You poll the IITans of the 80s and 90s and it'll be far easier to organise a reunion in San Francisco than in Mumbai. Probably 80% of them left the country. India's success in the late 90s and 00s was not built on the back of the much vaunted IITians. Except for a precious few, they were helping US become a tech superpower. It was on the back of the next level - bike factory workers, low level techies, call center folks working the graveyard shift.

Now it's easy. All the IITians want to stay back and build startups or those who left in the last 10 years are trying to find a way to return either for personal or professional reasons. No convincing required.

 

[Red-Indian]

Because right now the business class make their money in Pakistan with a goal to either invest overseas or send their families overseas. They also prefer to deal with overseas companies. Rather than importing expensive parts from abroad and selling them for profit at home, they should set up manufacturing in Pakistan so we don’t have to go outside. That should be the goal and the right government would incentivize such efforts. Currently the business class doesn’t feel the need to do any of it because the government allows all sorts of relaxations for them.

First start taxing them, then give them a way out if they invest domestically. That’s how most states do it.

Well said. You have to convince the elite to think a little longer term. Yes you can squeeze a poor country and take a bit of money out today. Or you can reinvest most of that back in with a bit of risk and squeeze a middle-income country for massive amounts.

Looks at the Bangladeshi textile barons. They could've run to Dubai with the early money they made from textile exports but they thought a little longer term, kept it in the country and now 4-5 big guys control most of a $20Bn industry and are trying to move up the value chain. Soon they'll have Rihanna (or her daughter I guess) dancing at their kid's weddings.

 

[Kianig89]

Miftah Ismail tried to lay the foundation imposing tax on retailers only to be ridiculed by Maryam and led to his ouster

 

[mominsaigol]

All that can be changed if you start with getting the basics right.

If you look at India in the 80s and early 90s, there was the same sense of despair. You only have to see Bollywood/Southen movies of the time to sense the national mood. Every hero is a 'first class first' who's 'berozgaar' and is eating 'dar dar ke thokar'.

You poll the IITans of the 80s and 90s and it'll be far easier to organise a reunion in San Francisco than in Mumbai. Probably 80% of them left the country. India's success in the late 90s and 00s was not built on the back of the much vaunted IITians. Except for a precious few, they were helping US become a tech superpower. It was on the back of the next level - bike factory workers, low level techies, call center folks working the graveyard shift.

Now it's easy. All the IITians want to stay back and build startups or those who left in the last 10 years are trying to find a way to return either for personal or professional reasons. No convincing required.

All I'm gonna say is, I hope one day, sometime, somewhere Pakistan becomes a superpower.

No one would have guess in the late 1800's that by the time of the first and 2nd World War, usa would be a global powerhouse and flash forward a few years later, become a superpower.

In literally 40 years they went from being barely a country by late 1880, to a superpower country especially during the economic boom period.

Same case with uae, no one would have guessed that a desert with zero infrastructure would end up one of the most powerful and richest countries in the world.(Muslim country as well btw)

Same case for India, but brother ik this much, it ain't gonna be achieved in my lifetime. I'll be dead by the time Pakistan even reaches recovering stage.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Now they'll tell us to eat less roti!

Well they actullay did said that earlier. They want us to eat 1 roti sharing with our brother one half of it and eat the other half.

 

[PakLFC]

Well they actullay did said that earlier. They want us to eat 1 roti sharing with our brother one half of it and eat the other half.

They told us too eat cake some years back

 

[BouncerGuy]

They told us too eat cake some years back

They want us people to not eat for a few days so that we can get out of the financial crisis. This is their mental level. Telling us to eat half roti and not more than that is the worst thing they could have said to citizens to control their finances while on the other hand, they are looting this country like it belongs to father and they can do anything they want to.

 

[PakLFC]

They want us people to not eat for a few days so that we can get out of the financial crisis. This is their mental level. Telling us to eat half roti and not more than that is the worst thing they could have said to citizens to control their finances while on the other hand, they are looting this country like it belongs to father and they can do anything they want to.

Next they will tell the people to stop breathing. All punishment is from Allah no doubt about it. Our people generally have invited the anger of Allah with their actions. Look at the social injustices in Pak like rape, forced marriages and wife beatings that go on regularly without even an ounce of regret. That in a country formed in the name of Islam. These leaders are a punishment from Allah until we repent or be replaced by another people. Our leaders are a mirror image of what we are ourselves. Put 99% Pakistanis in charge of the country and all will do what the Sharif's and Bhutto's do.

 

[rpant_gabba]

All that can be changed if you start with getting the basics right.

If you look at India in the 80s and early 90s, there was the same sense of despair. You only have to see Bollywood/Southen movies of the time to sense the national mood. Every hero is a 'first class first' who's 'berozgaar' and is eating 'dar dar ke thokar'.

You poll the IITans of the 80s and 90s and it'll be far easier to organise a reunion in San Francisco than in Mumbai. Probably 80% of them left the country. India's success in the late 90s and 00s was not built on the back of the much vaunted IITians. Except for a precious few, they were helping US become a tech superpower. It was on the back of the next level - bike factory workers, low level techies, call center folks working the graveyard shift.

Now it's easy. All the IITians want to stay back and build startups or those who left in the last 10 years are trying to find a way to return either for personal or professional reasons. No convincing required.

my father worked at a bike factory fro 20+ years. doubt that contributed much.

It was Idiotic nehruvian economic policies which was a ball chain combined with US (nixon initiated) anti-pathy towards India which created the hopeless situation you are describing

It was the dismantling of the "License Raj" after the 1991 IMF shock (which was triggered by India's then major export market: USSR) which led to the current economic conditions.

PV N Rao was the hero.

 

[Varun]

First things first: get that glorified real estate company off the hands of the controls.

 

[Varun]

No one would have guess in the late 1800's that by the time of the first and 2nd World War, usa would be a global powerhouse and flash forward a few years later, become a superpower.

In literally 40 years they went from being barely a country by late 1880, to a superpower country especially during the economic boom period.

Same case with uae, no one would have guessed that a desert with zero infrastructure would end up one of the most powerful and richest countries in the world.(Muslim country as well btw)

What was the 3-letter word common between these two cases?

O-I-L

 

[mominsaigol]

For usa it was the economic boom period where focus on industry + entertainment was prioritised.

For uae, the sheikh used thir money made from pil to build a multi trillion dollar country.

What was the 3-letter word common between these two cases?

O-I-L

 

[Red-Indian]

my father worked at a bike factory fro 20+ years. doubt that contributed much.

It was Idiotic nehruvian economic policies which was a ball chain combined with US (nixon initiated) anti-pathy towards India which created the hopeless situation you are describing

It was the dismantling of the "License Raj" after the 1991 IMF shock (which was triggered by India's then major export market: USSR) which led to the current economic conditions.

PV N Rao was the hero.

I've had that debate a million times in real life and online with fellow Indians whether there was any value to 35 years of Socialist Institution building and which parts of it retarded Indian growth and which parts of it helped. So I apologise for not engaging with you on this. I'll just say my views are not black and white on the subject.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I've had that debate a million times in real life and online with fellow Indians whether there was any value to 35 years of Socialist Institution building and which parts of it retarded Indian growth and which parts of it helped. So I apologise for not engaging with you on this. I'll just say my views are not black and white on the subject.

My point is that Nehruvian policies were, which IMO are not socialist. I would describe it as confused at best.

I'm not a this or that guy. I'm a this and that guy and no reason why more development couldn't have been carried with socialist leaning in the first 40 years instead of doing it under the gun in the 90's.

 

[Red-Indian]

First things first: get that glorified real estate company off the hands of the controls.

That's not easy. The politicians, if they are genuinely motivated to do it and don't want a major upheaval like a coup, have to do it sneakily

One way to do it cleverly which has worked in a bunch of countries is to move power and finances to the states/provinces. Lots of benefits to that

- The Army will find it tougher to appropriate budget share from the states as compared to the centre. After all, they're not responsible for Defence

- The states will start to compete with each other to deliver incentives and attract investments this trying different things

- Power and money will be closer to the people and their needs. It might get better spent

This is the model in the States and to a lesser extent in China and India. It's tried and tested for large countries.

 

[Red-Indian]

My point is that Nehruvian policies were, which IMO are not socialist. I would describe it as confused at best.

I'm not a this or that guy. I'm a this and that guy and no reason why more development couldn't have been carried with socialist leaning in the first 40 years instead of doing it under the gun in the 90's.

Good on you for having some nuance as well.

I'll say this. Every country that developed big from the 50s through the 80s - Germany, Japan, to a lesser extent Korea, Malaysia had the fond paternalistic hand of America over them. Massive grants, technical assistance, loans, military shield so they didn't have to waste money on an army etc. They also had in most cases reasonably strong pre-existing political institutions and self-governing experience. India and the subcontinent countries, Africa and to a lesser extent South America had none of these.

It's not a co-incidence Socialism, confused or Capitalism, we're all where we are today. A few countries ahead - China, Brazil etc. A few countries in the middle - India, Phillipines, Vietnam etc. and a few countries in the bottom - Pakistan, Nigeria and so on. 10-15 years between each cohort.

We can spend hundreds on posts debating reasons, decisions etc. that brought one country to one cohort or the other but India has been pretty lucky in one big sense - almost all of our Political leadership through the years has had no malafide intentions and has sought to move the country forward in their own confused way.

 

[CricketCartoons]

We can spend hundreds on posts debating reasons, decisions etc. that brought one country to one cohort or the other but India has been pretty lucky in one big sense - almost all of our Political leadership through the years has had no malafide intentions and has sought to move the country forward in their own confused way.

When their benevolence led India to bankruptcy, then I shudder to think what Nehru/ghandi family rule would have done if they were malevolent. This is what happens when someone puts their favourite politicians above the country.

 

[Red-Indian]

When their benevolence led India to bankruptcy, then I shudder to think what Nehru/ghandi family rule would have done if they were malevolent. This is what happens when someone puts their favourite politicians above the country.

Yeah sure. You're not very wrong but tell me this. Look through all the countries that you think did a much better job at development than India and find me one that didn't actually hit or flirt very close to bankruptcy like India did. India didn't actually go bankrupt or default by the way.

Bonus points if you can find one that wasn't sitting in Uncle Sam's laptop, had to fight a war or two and actually was democratic.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yeah sure. You're not very wrong but tell me this. Look through all the countries that you think did a much better job at development than India and find me one that didn't actually hit or flirt very close to bankruptcy like India did. India didn't actually go bankrupt or default by the way.

Bonus points if you can find one that wasn't sitting in Uncle Sam's laptop, had to fight a war or two and actually was democratic.

False debate. Why compare with any other country which have their own unique conditions. Or is that your premise that India could not develop without american aid?

 

[Red-Indian]

False debate. Why compare with any other country which have their own unique conditions. Or is that your premise that India could not develop without american aid?

No not impossible. Just very difficult. There's a reason why no (large) country managed it. The Soviet Union was manfully trying it's best while concealing a lot of issues but there was one true economic superpower and being buddies with it helped hugely. So did peace in the neighborhood.

For all the praise China gets for it's astute economic management, it's per capita income was equal to or lower than India's at the time of India's 'bankruptcy'.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Good on you for having some nuance as well.

I'll say this. Every country that developed big from the 50s through the 80s - Germany, Japan, to a lesser extent Korea, Malaysia had the fond paternalistic hand of America over them. Massive grants, technical assistance, loans, military shield so they didn't have to waste money on an army etc. They also had in most cases reasonably strong pre-existing political institutions and self-governing experience. India and the subcontinent countries, Africa and to a lesser extent South America had none of these.

It's not a co-incidence Socialism, confused or Capitalism, we're all where we are today. A few countries ahead - China, Brazil etc. A few countries in the middle - India, Phillipines, Vietnam etc. and a few countries in the bottom - Pakistan, Nigeria and so on. 10-15 years between each cohort.

We can spend hundreds on posts debating reasons, decisions etc. that brought one country to one cohort or the other but India has been pretty lucky in one big sense - almost all of our Political leadership through the years has had no malafide intentions and has sought to move the country forward in their own confused way.

What stopped Nehru from taking Kennedy's friendly hand in '62?

Gandhi Nehru virus has done number on India for a long time

 

[Red-Indian]

What stopped Nehru from taking Kennedy's friendly hand in '62?

Gandhi Nehru virus has done number on India for a long time

Let's discuss that on another thread. I want to leave this one for my peculiarly obsessed and detailed theories on how to turn Pakistan around.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please stay on topic guys. This thread is not about India, nehru etc. This is about Pakistan and ways to improve its economy.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The very first and the most important one - the mafia establishment has to go back to barracks. Conduct free and fair elections and things will gradually start improving in 5 years.

It would take longer than 5 years, maybe two or three election terms before the mafia clans understood that diverting public funds could mean actual consequences, but eventually the nation would be better off for it. Authoritarian dictatorships can sometimes work faster and more effectively, but not in Pakistan because of the importance of the region to the rest of the world who need pliant leaders who wil toe the line.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Hahah... Late Khadim Rizvi's easiest solution for you.

Haha savage

 

[FearlessRoar]

You really think the establishment and their cronies will allow any such plans to be implemented in the country?

Yes, it's time to change our establishment. Our establishment should be financial tycoons now.

I don't understand one thing, if something happens to Imran Khan, his supporters comes out on the roads, if something happens to Nawaz Sharif, his supporters protests.Then why doesn't this nation come out for their own rights? When a corrupt man engages in corruption, why does this nation see him as a macho man? Why not hold him accountable? When any government raises the prices of commodities, why doesn't this nation come out in protest as gather like a tsunami for political jalsas? The problem is not in the system, the problem is within this nation.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Because right now the business class make their money in Pakistan with a goal to either invest overseas or send their families overseas. They also prefer to deal with overseas companies. Rather than importing expensive parts from abroad and selling them for profit at home, they should set up manufacturing in Pakistan so we don’t have to go outside. That should be the goal and the right government would incentivize such efforts. Currently the business class doesn’t feel the need to do any of it because the government allows all sorts of relaxations for them.

First start taxing them, then give them a way out if they invest domestically. That’s how most states do it.

That's true. Perhaps you are referring to Swiss bank accounts.

 

[FearlessRoar]

I think you're either trying to save face or are just burying your head in the sand.

It's time for us to be part of the solution, not abandon our responsibilities.

 

[FearlessRoar]

But how do you convince the youth that?

Gen Z(1996-2012)
Gen alpha (2013-2024)

^^ They all have a collective hive mindset to just leave Pakistan via either studying for a degree and getting foreign work or marrying a Pakistani from abroad via family connections, and as ashamed as I am to admit it, I'm one of these people, I too went to study abroad and get a pr?

This collective hive mindset literally got developed because their was no future. The current generation is not interested in bettering a country run by corrupt officials, their interested in their own future hence they plan on leaving.

People want careers or their own businesses and their own family and their future children to have a good life.

I don't aim to convince anyone, everyone has their own opinions and choices. If leaving the country is their choice, nobody is stopping them.

Pakistan is not a small-population country. Not all 225 million people can migrate to developed countries. Of course, those who are living here also deserve a good life.

Someone needs to step in and address Pakistan's economic issues. Now, I'm thinking it's high time for us to change our establishment and transform it into financial tycoons.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Miftah Ismail tried to lay the foundation imposing tax on retailers only to be ridiculed by Maryam and led to his ouster

Yes, Miftah Ismail's approach was bright. He is 10,000 times better than the mediocre Ishaq Dar.

 

[rpant_gabba]

find a way balance imports and exports.

exports in 2022: $39B
Exports in 2022: $74B

Imports are unavoidable as Paksitan imports essentials

The top imports of Pakistan are Refined Petroleum ($6.98B), Crude Petroleum ($5.23B), Petroleum Gas ($4.58B), Palm Oil ($3.8B), and Raw Cotton ($2.44B),

If you have import essentials for everyday life its an uphill battle

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't aim to convince anyone, everyone has their own opinions and choices. If leaving the country is their choice, nobody is stopping them.

Pakistan is not a small-population country. Not all 225 million people can migrate to developed countries. Of course, those who are living here also deserve a good life.

Someone needs to step in and address Pakistan's economic issues. Now, I'm thinking it's high time for us to change our establishment and transform it into financial tycoons.

Yes because not all 225 million people has the money or circumstances too.

Also I was talking about the youth, not all 225 million people, I'm aware millennial and baby boomers have a different viewpoint and agenda, but ultimately even they can't do anything overnight.

The future of Pakistan if it comes is still a good 50 years away.

 

[IndoorCricket]

I think giving up on Kashmir and making peace with India would be the start of turn around. Then only Pakistan will be free from clutches of the establishment.