If Indian posters were Kashmiris

[KingKhanWC]

Kashmir is discussed regularly but it was nice to read a post where a poster puts himself in the shoes of a Kashmiri.

Quote:

"It's sad that four civilians lost their lives. But they weren't murdered. If you don't want to get shot , don't throw stones at the police or army .. as simple as that."

Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-as-Indian-troops-kill-17#x4lt5ESmB47S2kef.99
[MENTION=139319]Thomaskutty[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] @TMRiddle [MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do when so many security forces are surrounding you and you only want to be free?

Give up freedom, accept how it is, demonstrate, throw stones, fire guns , stop supporting Pakistan cricket team?

 

[PakLFC]

If you support Gandhi's right to demand freedom from the British then you have to support the Kashmiris right to freedom from India.

 

[akki]

If you support Gandhi's right to demand freedom from the British then you have to support the Kashmiris right to freedom from India.

British were not the descendents of this soil.Hell even kashmir is named by the name of indian hindu rishi guru kashyap.
You cant make fool the whole world at this age with some brainwashed propaganda..

 

[Sachin136]

If you support Gandhi's right to demand freedom from the British then you have to support the Kashmiris right to freedom from India.

If some random Pakistani starts attacking your police forces because he wants his state to be independent from Pakistan, what do you think will happen?

They can certainly demand freedom (that doesn't mean they will get it - if I ask for my state of NY to become independent of the US, no one is going to listen to me), as long as they don't start behaving like militants and attack protective forces.

 

[Poutine]

If some random Pakistani starts attacking your police forces because he wants his state to be independent from Pakistan, what do you think will happen?

They can certainly demand freedom (that doesn't mean they will get it - if I ask for my state of NY to become independent of the US, no one is going to listen to me), as long as they don't start behaving like militants and attack protective forces.

Its not just one random person is it? It's seems like majority of the state wants freedom. How can you ignore that?

 

[KingKhanWC]

If some random Pakistani starts attacking your police forces because he wants his state to be independent from Pakistan, what do you think will happen?

They can certainly demand freedom (that doesn't mean they will get it - if I ask for my state of NY to become independent of the US, no one is going to listen to me), as long as they don't start behaving like militants and attack protective forces.

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do?

 

[Sachin136]

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do?

I can't say without personally being in their shoes and experiencing whatever difficulties they're facing. However, I know for sure that wouldn't be trying to kill our soldiers.

 

[Waseem]

If some random Pakistani starts attacking your police forces because he wants his state to be independent from Pakistan, what do you think will happen?

They can certainly demand freedom (that doesn't mean they will get it - if I ask for my state of NY to become independent of the US, no one is going to listen to me), as long as they don't start behaving like militants and attack protective forces.

Lol at random

Do you really believe these are random people? They are not random people and aren't protesting because people force them to. No one gives up lives just because they feel like it or someone asked them to do so. These are the people who OWN the land, they have been protesting for about 70 years now so there must be a good enough reason???

 

[KingKhanWC]

I can't say without personally being in their shoes and experiencing whatever difficulties they're facing. However, I know for sure that wouldn't be trying to kill our soldiers.

If you cant comprehend how they feel or put yourself in their shoes, it's probably a good idea not to judge.

This thread is for the Indian viewpoint in their shoes but if it was me, I would fight with any means necessary.

 

[troodon]

India will never give up Kashmir. Not until it is still in tact as a union. Only fools dream of taking Kashmir by force. These stone pelting incidents are nothing but a nuisance for Indian army.

Nobody should lose their life if they are Indian. Be it Kashmiri or Army. They are Indians and they have equal rights in India.

Problem comes when they shout anti India slogans and do not want to be called Indian.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India will never give up Kashmir. Not until it is still in tact as a union. Only fools dream of taking Kashmir by force. These stone pelting incidents are nothing but a nuisance for Indian army.

Nobody should lose their life if they are Indian. Be it Kashmiri or Army. They are Indians and they have equal rights in India.

Problem comes when they shout anti India slogans and do not want to be called Indian.

So you would accept Indian rule, the military , arrests, torture etc if you were a Kashmiri?

 

[Sachin136]

Lol at random

Do you really believe these are random people? They are not random people and aren't protesting because people force them to. No one gives up lives just because they feel like it or someone asked them to do so. These are the people who OWN the land, they have been protesting for about 70 years now so there must be a good enough reason???

It doesn't matter how many there are. That doesn't justify their actions.

Say me and my neighbors (who own the land on my street, and some of whom have been living here for decades) want to make our street independent from the US. Can we start attacking policement?

If you cant comprehend how they feel or put yourself in their shoes, it's probably a good idea not to judge.

This thread is for the Indian viewpoint in their shoes but if it was me, I would fight with any means necessary.

Why? I can't understand how ISIL militants or school shooters feel either (or what mental issues they're dealing with), but I can still judge them as being human sc um (not sure why this is censored, as it literally means "a layer of dirt").

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why? I can't understand how ISIL militants or school shooters feel either (or what mental issues they're dealing with), but I can still judge them as being human sc um (not sure why this is censored, as it literally means "a layer of dirt").

This is a population which has been wanting freedom from India for decades now. Your reply and comparing them ISIS shows how daft & ignorant Indian defenders are.

 

[Napa]

Kashmir is discussed regularly but it was nice to read a post where a poster puts himself in the shoes of a Kashmiri.

Quote:

"It's sad that four civilians lost their lives. But they weren't murdered. If you don't want to get shot , don't throw stones at the police or army .. as simple as that."

Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-as-Indian-troops-kill-17#x4lt5ESmB47S2kef.99

[MENTION=139319]Thomaskutty[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] @TMRiddle [MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do when so many security forces are surrounding you and you only want to be free?

Give up freedom, accept how it is, demonstrate, throw stones, fire guns , stop supporting Pakistan cricket team?

In the thread you linked to I wrote "As Kashmiris have equal democratic rights as other Indians (and even more if you take into account Article 370), I do not have sympathy for their struggle. Though misguided, they however do believe they are fighting for a noble cause, and every death is a tragedy."

I think Kashmiris should give up this rebellion and become like the Goanese who have the second highest per cap income among Indians. Given the tourist potential of Kashmir, they will be the richest Indians.

 

[English August]

Kashmir is discussed regularly but it was nice to read a post where a poster puts himself in the shoes of a Kashmiri.

Quote:

"It's sad that four civilians lost their lives. But they weren't murdered. If you don't want to get shot , don't throw stones at the police or army .. as simple as that."

Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-as-Indian-troops-kill-17#x4lt5ESmB47S2kef.99

[MENTION=139319]Thomaskutty[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] @TMRiddle [MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do when so many security forces are surrounding you and you only want to be free?

Give up freedom, accept how it is, demonstrate, throw stones, fire guns , stop supporting Pakistan cricket team?

Since you asked nicely, this deserves a serious response.

If I were a Kashmiri, I'll do my best to take advantage of all the money central government is throwing at me. I'll send my kids to subsidized / free schools and colleges and prepare them to become an active participant in an Indian economy that has doubled twice in last 20 years. I'd apply for low-interest loans that are easily available and open a small business. I'd take advantage of the low cost of real estate (low because non-Kashmiri's can't invest in J&K -- which dampens prices) and invest in property.

I'd never encourage my kids to throw stones at security personnel. I'd teach them to treat the Indian democracy with great respect.

 

[English August]

If you support Gandhi's right to demand freedom from the British then you have to support the Kashmiris right to freedom from India.

I'd suggest you learn a bit more about Mahatma Gandhi before you start namedropping. The man never encouraged violence of any kind against anyone. Once his followers committed violence without his knowledge (the Chauri Choura incidence) and he cancelled the freedom movement right there without any further discussion and went on fast himself.

Terrorists who routinely kill innocent people all over India and commit atrocities like Mumbai attack, and their sympathizers, i'd suggest you have no leg to stand on when you mention Gandhi.

 

[OoparCut]

Since you asked nicely, this deserves a serious response.

If I were a Kashmiri, I'll do my best to take advantage of all the money central government is throwing at me. I'll send my kids to subsidized / free schools and colleges and prepare them to become an active participant in an Indian economy that has doubled twice in last 20 years. I'd apply for low-interest loans that are easily available and open a small business. I'd take advantage of the low cost of real estate (low because non-Kashmiri's can't invest in J&K -- which dampens prices) and invest in property.

I'd never encourage my kids to throw stones at security personnel. I'd teach them to treat the Indian democracy with great respect.

Not only does Kashmir get massive subsidies from rest of India - No Indian law passed by Indian parliament is valid in Kashmir, until it is approved by democratically elected Kashmiri representives in their state parliament. Neither can Indians who are not of Kashmiri origin buy land in J&K. By the way, no such special protections for Kashmiris on the "Azad" side of the LOC. And the demographics of Pak-held Kashmir are witness to the major changes that have happened there since 1948.

From a legal rights perspective, Kashmiris on the Indian side of the LOC are far more empowered on the Indian side, than the Pakistani side.

 

[PakLFC]

British were not the descendents of this soil.Hell even kashmir is named by the name of indian hindu rishi guru kashyap.
You cant make fool the whole world at this age with some brainwashed propaganda..

According to many Indians were originally from Africa as well. Does not matter what Kashmir is or was named after, now you are just scratching the bottom of the barrel in your attempts to justify oppression. Watch Mahabharata where India is only shown as a small island until the Mughal's took over.

 

[akki]

According to many Indians were originally from Africa as well. Does not matter what Kashmir is or was named after, now you are just scratching the bottom of the barrel in your attempts to justify oppression. Watch Mahabharata where India is only shown as a small island until the Mughal's took over.

Hahaha so kashmiri pandits whose place this is since last 5000 years who were thrown and killed by terrorists should forget now this place because currently they do not live here and we will go to history when adam was born ??
Listen you ,do whatever you want...a single mm of lashmir land wont go away from india. Kashmiri people will learn to live under secularism or get killed as simple as that.

We are very dissapointed from modi govt. So many special rights have been given to them by our tax money. Forget ram mandir in ayodhya which they cudnt build ,they dnt have even gutts to give proper instructions to army . Its just a matter of 24 hours if army were to normalise situation in kashmir.
We all feel for lashmiri pandits whose place this is and they were thrown away.

 

[PakLFC]

If some random Pakistani starts attacking your police forces because he wants his state to be independent from Pakistan, what do you think will happen?

They can certainly demand freedom (that doesn't mean they will get it - if I ask for my state of NY to become independent of the US, no one is going to listen to me), as long as they don't start behaving like militants and attack protective forces.

Depends how many people there are. If thousands attack Pak then they have o be spoken to about their grievances. One person has the right to protest as well, it is down to what the majority want be that in the USA, Pakistan or India. Vast majority of Kashmiris want no part of India, if they want no part of Pakistan then I will support them as well.

 

[PakLFC]

Hahaha so kashmiri pandits whose place this is since last 5000 years who were thrown and killed by terrorists should forget now this place because currently they do not live here and we will go to history when adam was born ??
Listen you ,do whatever you want...a single mm of lashmir land wont go away from india. Kashmiri people will learn to live under secularism or get killed as simple as that.

We are very dissapointed from modi govt. So many special rights have been given to them by our tax money. Forget ram mandir in ayodhya which they cudnt build ,they dnt have even gutts to give proper instructions to army . Its just a matter of 24 hours if army were to normalise situation in kashmir.
We all feel for lashmiri pandits whose place this is and they were thrown away.

What? The Pundits have the right to come back home. I did not say they should be forced out, did I? Pak don't need to do nothing when the Kashmiris are doing it all themselves!! Can't you see this? Well you see in the 1940's you said Pakistan will be born over our dead bodies, that is exactly what happened! Now you are making this in to a Pundit thing that has nothing to do with it. Kashmiris irrespective of faith have the right to decide their future and they will. Babri Masjid-Ram Temple has nothing to do with it.

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] Hindu Kashmiri or Muslim Kashmiri?

 

[Greenstorm]

If a majority of people in a region in Pakistan wants freedom, I will gladly support them. Self governance is a basic human right. There is no moral justification for India to what it is doing in Kashmir. Unfortunately in statecraft, national interests trumps morality almost every time.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] Hindu Kashmiri or Muslim Kashmiri?

Please give me your view for both. You are in the shoes of a Hindu and then a Muslim Kashmir, it will interesting to compare.

 

[Sirris]

The only thing preventing the common Indian from looking at the Kashmir issue objectively is blind ego and pride.

They don't really care about facts or public sentiments all they care about is keeping their shallow pride intact.

 

[barah_admi]

British were not the descendents of this soil.Hell even kashmir is named by the name of indian hindu rishi guru kashyap.
You cant make fool the whole world at this age with some brainwashed propaganda..

You want to talk history? Let's talk history.

At the time of partition, the regulation was set that Princely states (those that had been largely independent from the British but still paid taxes to the crown) could decide on where they wanted to join or stay independent. Hari Singh, who was the monarch at the time of partition was given that right and originally wanted to remain independent, thus protecting his populace from Indo-Pak politics. However, after scare tactics from the Indian government, claims that tribes from the Pashtun region would invade Kashmir and ultimately, the overwhelming desire of the majority Muslim population in the rgeion to join Pakistan, the Indian government took control, with Singh finally seceding to India.

So, against the wishes of his populace, the majority and the best interest of the state, an embattled and intimidated leader had to secede to a much larger, more powerful force and yet, what people forget is that this was not the only place it happened. Hyderabad, where the Nizam had decided independence, once again was forced, by military might, to secede to India in the 1950s.

If Kashmir had been an isolated incidence, lies could work, but it happened across several princely states and the oppression and independence struggles continue to this day.

 

[Adijazz1706]

This thread is made redundant by the fact that most Indian posters have made their views clear a long time ago, they see us as Israel see Gaza and the West Bank as land which belongs to India. In kashmiri we have a proverb Kokren mokhte chakin which means feeding pearls to chicken, the chicken doesn't care about the pearl and prefers chicken feed

 

[DW44]

I doubt too many people who wax lyrical about how the brave Indian army is just doing their job there would want this to happen to them:

Soldiers enter the house, put the gun at the temple of my father and tie up the younger men. They demand food and after consuming it, they hold the hand of the most beautiful daughter in front of the parents and brothers and take her to another room and rape her throughout the night. They separate men folk outside and molest and rape women inside…. We have to obey; otherwise they either kill our men on flimsy grounds or beat them to pulp or do something like that.

or this:

What was it like, I found myself imagining, to be squatting in your own snowy barn yard, drowning in your tin bucket, broken and blubbering on your hard granary floor, blinded by chillies from your own store? Or most unimaginably of all, to be Abdul Wani. To return from an overnight business trip to Srinagar and find your front door broken, your two sons in bed electrocuted, your wife and three daughters raped, and your family’s barn turned into the village torture chamber?

For context:

https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/all-these-years-later-do-not-forget-the-kunan-poshpora-mass-rapes/

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India will never give up Kashmir. Not until it is still in tact as a union. Only fools dream of taking Kashmir by force. These stone pelting incidents are nothing but a nuisance for Indian army.

Nobody should lose their life if they are Indian. Be it Kashmiri or Army. They are Indians and they have equal rights in India.

Problem comes when they shout anti India slogans and do not want to be called Indian.

I don't see why Kashmir is so special. India gave up half of Bengal, half of Punjab and Sindh. Wouldn't Indians be better off concentrating on making life better for those parts of India which are happy to be described as such?

Kashmir seems like a mistake from the first and it has proven to be nothing but a constant thorn in relations for both Pakistan and India. Since we are reconciled to partition, why not do it properly once and for all?

 

[DW44]

I don't see why Kashmir is so special. India gave up half of Bengal, half of Punjab and Sindh. Wouldn't Indians be better off concentrating on making life better for those parts of India which are happy to be described as such?

Kashmir seems like a mistake from the first and it has proven to be nothing but a constant thorn in relations for both Pakistan and India. Since we are reconciled to partition, why not do it properly once and for all?

It's special because whoever controls it controls the water supply of the entire subcontinent, one of the most water stressed populated regions on the planet.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's special because whoever controls it controls the water supply of the entire subcontinent, one of the most water stressed populated regions on the planet.

Well that makes the whole concept of partition along the lines of religion a joke since ground reality clearly trumps religious considerations.

 

[DW44]

Well that makes the whole concept of partition along the lines of religion a joke since ground reality clearly trumps religious considerations.

You don't say!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You don't say!

But it needs to be said, because clearly the vast majority of people still don't accept it.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You want to talk history? Let's talk history.

At the time of partition, the regulation was set that Princely states (those that had been largely independent from the British but still paid taxes to the crown) could decide on where they wanted to join or stay independent. Hari Singh, who was the monarch at the time of partition was given that right and originally wanted to remain independent, thus protecting his populace from Indo-Pak politics. However, after scare tactics from the Indian government, claims that tribes from the Pashtun region would invade Kashmir and ultimately, the overwhelming desire of the majority Muslim population in the rgeion to join Pakistan, the Indian government took control, with Singh finally seceding to India.

So, against the wishes of his populace, the majority and the best interest of the state, an embattled and intimidated leader had to secede to a much larger, more powerful force and yet, what people forget is that this was not the only place it happened. Hyderabad, where the Nizam had decided independence, once again was forced, by military might, to secede to India in the 1950s.

If Kashmir had been an isolated incidence, lies could work, but it happened across several princely states and the oppression and independence struggles continue to this day.

You forgot the most important truth.

Pakistan agreed to the Standstill agreement, India did not. India were then caught moving their army to the Kashmir border ready for invasion.

India were the ones who refused Kashmir's independent status. They've been crying since they got caught red handed.

 

[OoparCut]

You forgot the most important truth.

Pakistan agreed to the Standstill agreement, India did not. India were then caught moving their army to the Kashmir border ready for invasion.

India were the ones who refused Kashmir's independent status. They've been crying since they got caught red handed.

LOL. Must be from the same book where Pakistan 'won' all the wars against India.

 

[R3verse Swing]

LOL. Must be from the same book where Pakistan 'won' all the wars against India.

Awww bless. Still denying India refused to agree to the standstill agreement.

You have been owned big time. Funny how you respond by creating a thread on Pakistan and terrorism, cos you have nothing else to say that has any truth or validity.

 

[OoparCut]

Awww bless. Still denying India refused to agree to the standstill agreement.

You have been owned big time. Funny how you respond by creating a thread on Pakistan and terrorism, cos you have nothing else to say that has any truth or validity.

Declaring "victory" again I see? Sure son. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Declaring "victory" again I see? Sure son. Whatever floats your boat.

Yup. No denial of ignorance as expected.

No one declared victory. Please run along and create terrorist threads, it's the only thing Kashmiri/Bangladeshis are good at.

 

[WildSwing]

If you were a Kashmiri what would you do?

Enjoy the rights given by world's largest democracy and build myself an amazing career with all the opportunities available and become part of the biggest success story of the 21st century, instead of throwing my life away to join a failing country riddled with countless problems and heading down the wrong path. The choice is pretty simple really

 

[barah_admi]

You forgot the most important truth.

Pakistan agreed to the Standstill agreement, India did not. India were then caught moving their army to the Kashmir border ready for invasion.

India were the ones who refused Kashmir's independent status. They've been crying since they got caught red handed.

I did forget that but the thing is, I could write an entire essay on Indian hypocrisy and aggression and still not include everything from that time period.

LOL. Must be from the same book where Pakistan 'won' all the wars against India.

It's called history, try to read it.

 

[Indiafan]

So you would accept Indian rule, the military , arrests, torture etc if you were a Kashmiri?

Most Kashmiris do. No matter how much external terrorists come in or how much some youth are misguided. Most Kashmiris are happy to be a part of India. They know the military is to protect them from outsiders who hide amongst them and foster terrorism after taking money from a neighboring nation.

The turn outs in the elections etc despite terrorist threats to kill them, the turn outs which are 100000 times more than any crowd gathered for any protest or stone throwing prove this every single time

 

[barah_admi]

Most Kashmiris do. No matter how much external terrorists come in or how much some youth are misguided. Most Kashmiris are happy to be a part of India. They know the military is to protect them from outsiders who hide amongst them and foster terrorism after taking money from a neighboring nation.

The turn outs in the elections etc despite terrorist threats to kill them, the turn outs which are 100000 times more than any crowd gathered for any protest or stone throwing prove this every single time

Most Kashmiris?

Ok can you name me 5 independent sources from which you have gathered information, which shows us that most Kashmiris are happy to be a part of India?

Thanks.

 

[English August]

Well that makes the whole concept of partition along the lines of religion a joke since ground reality clearly trumps religious considerations.

What was your first cue?!

The two nation theory based on religious ground was discredited the moment millions of Muslims chose to stay behind in India vs. moving to Pakistan. It died one more time (if it's possible) when BD was created in 1971.

It dies every day (if that's possible!!) when Muslims kill Muslims all over the world in the name of religion.