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Imran Khan admits forming offshore company to 'evade British taxes'

* I am talking about countries that tax foreign income. If you are a US citizen, if you leave the US and work in Germany, you are still bound to pay taxes on what you earn in Germany to the US. The UK doesn't that and it's a stupid system. Would it make sense if expat pakistanis are taxed on what they earn in the UK by Pakistan gov?
 
im afraid this long streak of being wrong is continuing. the terms of avoidance or tax planning or evasion is an issue of semantics. where it is relevant is whether there was wrong doing or not. there is nothing morally or legally wrong in paying the amount of tax you are legally due to pay, and not paying more, however the government allows you to do that. ive quoted precisely why the uk government offers these incentives to foreign citizens, wherever they are earning their money.

you are wrong in pointing to the us being the only country that taxes its citizens on a worldwide basis, the uk does it too. avoiding that IS immoral and illegal - your measure of morality seems to be entirely on a whim. if the basis of a debate on a subject like this comes down to how you happen to feel that particular day, your contribution is meaningless.

Bro you are wasting your time, Engaging with thick Nooras is a complete waste of time. Intelligence and Nooras are mutually exclusive. Maybe he can comment on the blatant lie told by NS in the NAB today.
 
* I am talking about countries that tax foreign income. If you are a US citizen, if you leave the US and work in Germany, you are still bound to pay taxes on what you earn in Germany to the US. The UK doesn't that and it's a stupid system. Would it make sense if expat pakistanis are taxed on what they earn in the UK by Pakistan gov?

It depends upon what you're making. If you are US citizen and a resident of any other country for a whole year and make around $100,000 you don't have to pay taxes on it and if you're paying taxes in a foreign land, then you get tax credits in US, so you would likely end up paying nothing in US.

You need to brush up you tax knowledge.
 
It depends upon what you're making. If you are US citizen and a resident of any other country for a whole year and make around $100,000 you don't have to pay taxes on it and if you're paying taxes in a foreign land, then you get tax credits in US, so you would likely end up paying nothing in US.

You need to brush up you tax knowledge.

That's just a minimum taxable amount. Even if you live in the US (or anywhere in the world), there is a maximum amount of income that exempts you from taxes.
 
Hahahahahahaha

Imran Khan telling a funny thing when he had good terms with Nawaz Sharif when Nawaz Sharif was Finance Minister Punjab.

It was 1983 or 1984 probably and it was than that he disclosed Nawaz Sharif that he bought Flat in UK.


Watch this. It's funny in a way :-)


https://youtu.be/VCRV7q_fge8

[MENTION=140316]IslamabadUnited[/MENTION]
 
''Paying the amount of taxes you are due to pay and not more'' is a fallacious way to try to make the undefendable seem defendable to the people who are not familiar with what is being done here.

To the average person, it will seem like the government somehow made a mistake and people are using rightful arguments to decrease their tax loads.

What has actually happened is that the taxes due are lowered by sending money to an off-shore tax haven and then having it come back under the guise of a phooney corporation.

The amount due is thus ''legally'' lowered but it doesn't mean that this is the amount of money that is rightfully or morally due. It is a loophole and a form of exploitation towards all the people who pay what they actually owe without trying to use tax havens.

As for the point about foreign earnings, in a global world, the US has nothing to do with money produced and earned in another country. If I am a US citizen and I own a factory in China, selling goods in Europe, then why should it be entitled to money from these earnings? And the proof of this is that you don't have to pay those taxes anymore if you give up US citizenship.

You still haven't explained why, if it's all legal and there is no loophole,if IK should have normally benefitted from those exemptions, why did he use a tax-haven.

It doesn't matter how you cut it. IK earned money in the UK, sent it off to an off-shore tax haven to create a phoney corporation and then sent that money back to the UK to buy property.

This is not the behaviour of someone paying the taxes that are due, and IK admitted as much by saying that he evaded British taxes (although he avoided them rather than evaded).

it dosnt matter how often you try to define right and wrong according to whatever you feel like, repeating it here doesnt make it any more valid.

ive provided proof from the uk government that they encourage foreigners to come to the uk, live, work and spend here and have different taxation for them to incentivise them. thats black and white. what the mechanism for that is entirely irrelevant. if its an offshore company or not is entirely irrelevant. you seem to think that a mechanism of using a company, offshore in this case is wrong. ive invited you to show us some proof for this - youve abjectly declined because there isnt any. what about consultants creating a company to offer their consultant services, is that wrong? what makes it wrong, the fact that its a company? the fact that 99% of people who are not consultants dont use this mechanism? its total bs to make up rules as you go along. if its declared, and abides by law and rules - its fair and its moral. its exactly like someone claiming a tax credit for a mortgage, or a trust for their children, or for a charitable donation. in all of those cases you have to make an application, and do something different - otherwise you pay more tax than you are due to pay. its extremely simple. are you saying that someone who for example gifts half his salary to charity, say an offshore charity, and then claims gift aid to reduce the tax due on his earnings is immoral? are they exploiting loopholes because other people dont do this because they dont give charity.

"It is a loophole and a form of exploitation towards all the people who pay what they actually owe without trying to use tax havens." which people? non-doms or doms? ive already proved there is a moral and legal difference which you conveniently ignore since it doesnt suit your narrative.

your stance has no validity in any way whatsoever, and you are too dishonest to admit it.
 
That's just a minimum taxable amount. Even if you live in the US (or anywhere in the world), there is a maximum amount of income that exempts you from taxes.

$100,000 is a good amount. You can't compare to min amount because that's based on minimum standard of living but $100,000 is what majority or a good percentage of people earn.
 
it dosnt matter how often you try to define right and wrong according to whatever you feel like, repeating it here doesnt make it any more valid.

ive provided proof from the uk government that they encourage foreigners to come to the uk, live, work and spend here and have different taxation for them to incentivise them. thats black and white. what the mechanism for that is entirely irrelevant. if its an offshore company or not is entirely irrelevant. you seem to think that a mechanism of using a company, offshore in this case is wrong. ive invited you to show us some proof for this - youve abjectly declined because there isnt any. what about consultants creating a company to offer their consultant services, is that wrong? what makes it wrong, the fact that its a company? the fact that 99% of people who are not consultants dont use this mechanism? its total bs to make up rules as you go along. if its declared, and abides by law and rules - its fair and its moral. its exactly like someone claiming a tax credit for a mortgage, or a trust for their children, or for a charitable donation. in all of those cases you have to make an application, and do something different - otherwise you pay more tax than you are due to pay. its extremely simple. are you saying that someone who for example gifts half his salary to charity, say an offshore charity, and then claims gift aid to reduce the tax due on his earnings is immoral? are they exploiting loopholes because other people dont do this because they dont give charity.

"It is a loophole and a form of exploitation towards all the people who pay what they actually owe without trying to use tax havens." which people? non-doms or doms? ive already proved there is a moral and legal difference which you conveniently ignore since it doesnt suit your narrative.

your stance has no validity in any way whatsoever, and you are too dishonest to admit it.

There is a difference between a tax exemption and exploiting a loophole. If I create a trust for my kids and claim an exemption, that is the normal mechanism for this system. If the UK says that investments from abroad will be tax-exempt, that is the normal mechanism for this system. If, from the UK, I send money to a tax haven and then make it come back through a corporation, that's exploiting the loophole. Because the money isn't actually foreign investment, I sent it to a tax haven to make it look like a foreign investment.

And, if Imran, living and earning in the UK, could use that mechanism, he would have. Except he didn't, he sent his money off-shore which proves he couldn't and needed for his money to come from abroad, which shows that, at least at the time, he wouldn't have had that exemption without using an off-shore tax haven and a phooney off-shore company.

It's a clear-cut case, no matter how much you try to obfuscate the truth.
 
$100,000 is a good amount. You can't compare to min amount because that's based on minimum standard of living but $100,000 is what majority or a good percentage of people earn.

And how is that going to help me if I earn 200k$ in a job at London?
 
Hahahahahahaha

Imran Khan telling a funny thing when he had good terms with Nawaz Sharif when Nawaz Sharif was Finance Minister Punjab.

It was 1983 or 1984 probably and it was than that he disclosed Nawaz Sharif that he bought Flat in UK.


Watch this. It's funny in a way :-)


https://youtu.be/VCRV7q_fge8


[MENTION=140316]IslamabadUnited[/MENTION]

:23: I can't believe they were friends before.
 
:23: I can't believe they were friends before.
They have played cricket together at Lahore Gymkhana and Imran Khan was a superstar cricketer and Nawaz Sharif was Son of Top industrialist of Pakistan so they must have been meeting at some events aswell where both would have been invited.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
And how is that going to help me if I earn 200k$ in a job at London?

If you're earning $200,00 in income you would be paying taxes there, so in USA you would get a tax credit which will wipe off your taxes in USA.
 
They have played cricket together at Lahore Gymkhana and Imran Khan was a superstar cricketer and Nawaz Sharif was Son of Top industrialist of Pakistan so they must have been meeting at some events aswell where both would have been invited.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

:facepalm: Nawaz Sharif use to play cricket? Hard to believe. How come our cricket is so bad under his government?
 
:facepalm: Nawaz Sharif use to play cricket? Hard to believe. How come our cricket is so bad under his government?

When Nawaz Sharif was Chief Minister of punjab in 1987 he even opened the batting against the might Windies. He not only included himself in the squad and playing XI but actually played as an opener. Needless to say he scored a zero.
 
If you're earning $200,00 in income you would be paying taxes there, so in USA you would get a tax credit which will wipe off your taxes in USA.

Only if the tax rates there are higher than in the USA so as to bring the post-tax income under 100k$. Otherwise the IRS will have its due. If it's a country without income tax then you're screwed.

Not to mention that this is just for individuals. Corporations are liable to pay taxes on foreign income too.
 
When Nawaz Sharif was Chief Minister of punjab in 1987 he even opened the batting against the might Windies. He not only included himself in the squad and playing XI but actually played as an opener. Needless to say he scored a zero.

Zero not bad. How many matches did he play?
 
Pakistan can blame the WI for the mess they are in right now. Can you imagine if Nawaz had actually abandonned politics to pursue his true passion in sports? This is some rejecting Hitler from Art School level fate.
 
Pakistan can blame the WI for the mess they are in right now. Can you imagine if Nawaz had actually abandonned politics to pursue his true passion in sports? This is some rejecting Hitler from Art School level fate.

Add WI to RAW, Mossad and CIA in the blame game.
 
It's hard to answer each of everyone's posts
[MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION] If people see my posts, and get convinced to vote for Nawaz or Zardari, instead of Imran, then it's not my fault. I am not here preaching on who to vote for. People should have "Aqal" to vote for someone they think is suitable candidate.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't vote, but I didn't tell anyone to stop voting. You must vote for the people you feel is fit to lead the country. I believe no one is , so I abstain. But I didn't say to any person, you should not vote. Voting should be exercised. Also , I absolutely am against Martial Laws, which just are awful.

The reason Pakistan is behind 100 years is not because of Zardari and Sharif but because democracy is not allowed to flourish. Let the people bear the burden of what they have elected. What happens in Pakistan is after every 2 years, people get tired, and military leaders decide to impose Martial Law to save the country, according to wishes of the people.

It's high time, that people vote for someone, and bear the truth of their vote for 5 full years so they can see what they have voted for.

Also , I repeat I have nothing against Imran. If people would like to vote for him, let him get a clear majority he will come up with the post of Prime Minister. But the problem with people like Imran is, that when they lose, they start whining about fixed elections and rigging and all that nonsense. They are all sore losers. Even Nawaz generally does the same, and the less said about Zardari, the better.

Imran should lead the country for a change, and it would be nice to a see a different leader this time, but I don't see this country changing under his leadership too.

Because the people are the same corrupt people, who want to deceive, lie, and then go home with their fat paychecks. No one wants change, no one is ready for change. We are happy in our bliss. The percentage of posters who post on Pakpassion make up less than 1 percent of Pakistan population and even in them, there is discordance on the best way to lead the country.

And you think the rest of 180 million population will unify to help the country move forward, as soon as Imran reaches power?

We are living in a utopian world and utopian land. We believe, that , somehow just like Mao Zedong did for China, Imran would do for Pakistan. But it would be interesting to see Mao's history before making blanket comments about how things would change. The people who disagreed with Mao were sent into prisons and their entire family trees were wiped out. Will that happen in Pakistan? Can you imagine sending Zardari to jail and killing off Bilawal Bhutto and his relatives ? Will Imran do that literally? It's forbidden in Islam anyways.

We have landlord system in our country, and this country will NOT change in the near future. You can mark my words on this. Feudalism has its roots in our society. The teacher wants to teach as less as possible and get as much salary as possible. The government executive (sans Imran because he is an angel) from PTI even wants to be absolved of all rules, because after all he is MPA. Our country believes, in rank and design.

Can you imagine the traffic being stopped in the civilized countries for a 3 star general or 4 star general as it happens in our Pakistan? These people think they are God, and they will continue thinking so for the next 25 years or so.

The education system of Pakistan is so messed up, that instead of telling people "how to think" it tells them "follow someone who is a thinker". Such a state is bound to fail 99 times out of 100. Now I come to think of it, Pakistan is a failed state.

But it is NOT A FAILED STATE BECAUSE OF ZARDARI OR NAWAZ. IT IS A FAILED STATE BECAUSE OF US. We have come to the point, where we blame the leaders for our mess, and believe in Messiahs.

Entire nations have been wiped out, waiting for Messiahs. Yet this Messiah mentality still envelops us. It eats us from within. We see USA, UK and other European nations and we say, well they "used sticks and laws to control the people" and there came from them leaders and so "once a leader comes from Pakistan and enacts the laws things will definitely change".

But we forget that laws need to be followed to an extent where the punisher is not culpable. In Pakistan the feudal system will ensure, that the punisher is forced to resign from his post, whether its Nawaz, Zardari or Imran. This is the mentality we have.

I am sorry , but I see no change in the near future.

If Imran comes to power and we start our way to progress, you can BOOKMARK THIS POST and tell me I was wrong.
 
[MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION]. You keep saying that people are too corrupt and nothing would change no matter what.

Could you answer a simple question of mine?

Why in your people these corrupt Pakistani people suddenly start obeying the laws when they move overseas?
 
[MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION]. You keep saying that people are too corrupt and nothing would change no matter what.

Could you answer a simple question of mine?

Why in your people these corrupt Pakistani people suddenly start obeying the laws when they move overseas?

Fear of "Danda".
 
Will anyone care to respond to this or will this be swept under the carpet?

I'm not aware of all the details of this situation as yet - I've just been moderating the thread - but the person that wrote that article has some significant knowledge gaps. Being active/dormant has nothing to do with the filing of annual returns.

The article seems to be confusing annual returns with tax returns.
 
. If the UK says that investments from abroad will be tax-exempt, that is the normal mechanism for this system. If, from the UK, I send money to a tax haven and then make it come back through a corporation, that's exploiting the loophole.
.

Why? Prove it. Time and time again you keep harping on about right and wrong and yet haven't quoted a single source to ratify the opinion. On the other hand, I have proven my stance beyond any doubt using government websites. Why is using one facility the government has allowed a loophole and using another an exemption? Where does it sat that transferring money abroad transform the legitimacy of a transaction. Why is it if it's an offshore charitable contribution, that's not a loophole?

Can you provide even one authoritative source rather than repeating the same thing for the billionth time?
 
It's hard to answer each of everyone's posts
[MENTION=3393]godzilla[/MENTION] If people see my posts, and get convinced to vote for Nawaz or Zardari, instead of Imran, then it's not my fault. I am not here preaching on who to vote for. People should have "Aqal" to vote for someone they think is suitable candidate.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't vote, but I didn't tell anyone to stop voting. You must vote for the people you feel is fit to lead the country. I believe no one is , so I abstain. But I didn't say to any person, you should not vote. Voting should be exercised. Also , I absolutely am against Martial Laws, which just are awful.

The reason Pakistan is behind 100 years is not because of Zardari and Sharif but because democracy is not allowed to flourish. Let the people bear the burden of what they have elected. What happens in Pakistan is after every 2 years, people get tired, and military leaders decide to impose Martial Law to save the country, according to wishes of the people.

It's high time, that people vote for someone, and bear the truth of their vote for 5 full years so they can see what they have voted for.

Also , I repeat I have nothing against Imran. If people would like to vote for him, let him get a clear majority he will come up with the post of Prime Minister. But the problem with people like Imran is, that when they lose, they start whining about fixed elections and rigging and all that nonsense. They are all sore losers. Even Nawaz generally does the same, and the less said about Zardari, the better.

Imran should lead the country for a change, and it would be nice to a see a different leader this time, but I don't see this country changing under his leadership too.

Because the people are the same corrupt people, who want to deceive, lie, and then go home with their fat paychecks. No one wants change, no one is ready for change. We are happy in our bliss. The percentage of posters who post on Pakpassion make up less than 1 percent of Pakistan population and even in them, there is discordance on the best way to lead the country.

And you think the rest of 180 million population will unify to help the country move forward, as soon as Imran reaches power?

We are living in a utopian world and utopian land. We believe, that , somehow just like Mao Zedong did for China, Imran would do for Pakistan. But it would be interesting to see Mao's history before making blanket comments about how things would change. The people who disagreed with Mao were sent into prisons and their entire family trees were wiped out. Will that happen in Pakistan? Can you imagine sending Zardari to jail and killing off Bilawal Bhutto and his relatives ? Will Imran do that literally? It's forbidden in Islam anyways.

We have landlord system in our country, and this country will NOT change in the near future. You can mark my words on this. Feudalism has its roots in our society. The teacher wants to teach as less as possible and get as much salary as possible. The government executive (sans Imran because he is an angel) from PTI even wants to be absolved of all rules, because after all he is MPA. Our country believes, in rank and design.

Can you imagine the traffic being stopped in the civilized countries for a 3 star general or 4 star general as it happens in our Pakistan? These people think they are God, and they will continue thinking so for the next 25 years or so.

The education system of Pakistan is so messed up, that instead of telling people "how to think" it tells them "follow someone who is a thinker". Such a state is bound to fail 99 times out of 100. Now I come to think of it, Pakistan is a failed state.

But it is NOT A FAILED STATE BECAUSE OF ZARDARI OR NAWAZ. IT IS A FAILED STATE BECAUSE OF US. We have come to the point, where we blame the leaders for our mess, and believe in Messiahs.

Entire nations have been wiped out, waiting for Messiahs. Yet this Messiah mentality still envelops us. It eats us from within. We see USA, UK and other European nations and we say, well they "used sticks and laws to control the people" and there came from them leaders and so "once a leader comes from Pakistan and enacts the laws things will definitely change".

But we forget that laws need to be followed to an extent where the punisher is not culpable. In Pakistan the feudal system will ensure, that the punisher is forced to resign from his post, whether its Nawaz, Zardari or Imran. This is the mentality we have.

I am sorry , but I see no change in the near future.

If Imran comes to power and we start our way to progress, you can BOOKMARK THIS POST and tell me I was wrong.

Same old repeated rant and nothing more.
 
I meant it's not possible for him to score worse than Zero, (i.e. to score negative runs) therefore, Zero isn't 'not bad', it's the worst possible outcome for a batsman and it's thus said "He's out for a duck".

:nawaz
Thank you for the clarification. I never understood where the phrase "He's out for a duck" came from? What does a duck have to do with the number zero?
 
Thank you for the clarification. I never understood where the phrase "He's out for a duck" came from? What does a duck have to do with the number zero?

Origin of the term

The term is a shortening of the term "duck's egg", the latter being used long before Test cricket began. When referring to the Prince of Wales' (the future Edward VII) score of nought on 17 July 1866, a contemporary newspaper wrote that the Prince "retired to the royal pavilion on a "duck's egg". The name is believed to come from the shape of the number "0" being similar to that of a duck's egg. The Concise Oxford Dictionary still cites "duck's egg" as an alternative version of the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_(cricket)
 
Why? Prove it. Time and time again you keep harping on about right and wrong and yet haven't quoted a single source to ratify the opinion. On the other hand, I have proven my stance beyond any doubt using government websites. Why is using one facility the government has allowed a loophole and using another an exemption? Where does it sat that transferring money abroad transform the legitimacy of a transaction. Why is it if it's an offshore charitable contribution, that's not a loophole?

Can you provide even one authoritative source rather than repeating the same thing for the billionth time?

I will when you justify why IK had to use a fiscal haven in order to benefit from laws that, according to you, applied to him? There is no smoke without fire.
 
I will when you justify why IK had to use a fiscal haven in order to benefit from laws that, according to you, applied to him? There is no smoke without fire.

From the uk government website:

"If a non-dom individual dies owning UK property directly, their personal representatives or the beneficiaries of their estate are liable to IHT at 40% on the value of the UK property subject to the usual exemptions. It is irrelevant whether the deceased was resident in the UK or not.

However, as IHT is only charged on UK property directly held by non-doms, it is relatively easy for a non-dom to own such property through an offshore vehicle so as to secure an IHT advantage on UK property in a way not available to a person domiciled in the UK. This is referred to as ‘enveloping’ the property: the offshore company owns the UK property beneficially and the individual owns the shares of the company"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sinheritance-tax-residential-property-changes

thats an affirmation of the law that allows, and by stating it explicitly here in the first document that google threw up, affirms the current validity and acceptance of the use of an off shore vehicle to by uk property by a non dom.


your turn.
 
From the uk government website:

"If a non-dom individual dies owning UK property directly, their personal representatives or the beneficiaries of their estate are liable to IHT at 40% on the value of the UK property subject to the usual exemptions. It is irrelevant whether the deceased was resident in the UK or not.

However, as IHT is only charged on UK property directly held by non-doms, it is relatively easy for a non-dom to own such property through an offshore vehicle so as to secure an IHT advantage on UK property in a way not available to a person domiciled in the UK. This is referred to as ‘enveloping’ the property: the offshore company owns the UK property beneficially and the individual owns the shares of the company"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sinheritance-tax-residential-property-changes

thats an affirmation of the law that allows, and by stating it explicitly here in the first document that google threw up, affirms the current validity and acceptance of the use of an off shore vehicle to by uk property by a non dom.


your turn.

Which is considered avoidance by the treasury and which they explicitly warn against:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ghts-breach-in-stamp-duty-avoidance-challenge

Try again.
 
Bet u believe in messiah too.

Have too many of them nowadays.

Like i have said in my previous post, the word "messiah" is used by Imran Khan's critics for the supporters of Imran Khan. Supporters of Imran Khan believe he is a man who can put Pakistan in right direction of prosperity. He is the man who believes in equal justice for everyone, the man who believes in depoliticized police, he is the man who believe no one above the land law. He is the man whose Philanthropist work is not only recognized by Pakistan but let all over the world ( and that should be good enough for wrist slitters), probably the only Pakistani after Abdul Sattar Edhi where people do not hesitate one bit before donating to his hospital and education institution.

Now does all of those above quality makes him "Messiah", or indirectly his supporter believe that he is a Messiah because of what he has done for the countless people who are and was suffering from cancer or other ailment? or for providing cheap education for those who couldn't afford? In simple word the answer is and always will be "NO".

Do i personally believe that he would do better than current politician for the people of Pakistan. Then YES! and anyone with pea sized brain should be enough to vote for him unless that someone who wants to protect their corrupt income or someone who wants to feel relevant on the internet by picking on him so they can put themselves on a pedestal.
 
Find someone who is not as corrupt as Imran Khan, Nawaz, Zardari etc.

Any suggestion from current lot? If no other option than who to vote? Waiting for some messiah is not the option here. We have to make do with whatever we have got.
 
dude - can you read? my link was about IHT, yours is about stamp duty. mine is specifically for non-doms, yours is for everyone. in what way are these two the same things? literally, there is absolutely no overlap whatsoever.

This is about avoiding stamp duty through enveloping your property. Enveloping is the process Imran went through in order to avoid IHT and other taxes as foreign investors can do this (and jersey island is off-shore).
 
This is about avoiding stamp duty through enveloping your property. Enveloping is the process Imran went through in order to avoid IHT and other taxes as foreign investors can do this (and jersey island is off-shore).

no - the stamp duty avoidance referred to in that document came about through structures created in the last few years (not in 1983 in the first instance) and had nothing to do with IHT which my quote expressly demonstrates the revenue accepts as entirely acceptable for non doms through off shore structures.

you cant even read your own links.

where in your link does it say (1) the stamp duty avoidance schemes operate only through off shore enveloping (2) where does it say that that non-doms purchasing uk property through off shore structures is avoidance, whether of stamp duty or any other taxes? (3) where does it say that imran engaged in the schemes that that paper is referencing. please quote the text.

im still waiting for you to fulfil your promise of a quote that says that non-dom purchases of uk real estate through an offshore structure is avoidance. you said youd provide it, so do it.
 
no - the stamp duty avoidance referred to in that document came about through structures created in the last few years (not in 1983 in the first instance) and had nothing to do with IHT which my quote expressly demonstrates the revenue accepts as entirely acceptable for non doms through off shore structures.

you cant even read your own links.

where in your link does it say (1) the stamp duty avoidance schemes operate only through off shore enveloping (2) where does it say that that non-doms purchasing uk property through off shore structures is avoidance, whether of stamp duty or any other taxes? (3) where does it say that imran engaged in the schemes that that paper is referencing. please quote the text.

im still waiting for you to fulfil your promise of a quote that says that non-dom purchases of uk real estate through an offshore structure is avoidance. you said youd provide it, so do it.

Dude, buying property through off-shore corporations IS envelopping. That's the definition of the term and it is quoted in your own post too. Are you really this thick?
 
Imran made a big mistake by targeting off shore companies when Panama leaks started. However, I don't really understand what he is being blamed for here?

At most he tried to save taxes using legal means available to him(I can't think of any one who wouldn't). But the source of funds has clearly been established, which is the major difference between him and nawaz sharif.

I am not a big fan of a lot of IKs political decisions but as far as politicians go he is reasonably financially clean.

You would expect noon league to exploit this issue. The surprising thing is the number of educated people falling for this propaganda.
 
Find someone who is not as corrupt as Imran Khan, Nawaz, Zardari etc.

Saari raat ronday raye te marya koi vi nai, oh bhai which corruption are you talking about? There are 4 pages on this thread explaining there was absolutely NO CORRUPTION by Imran Khan. The only argument left is whether it's moral corruption to legally avoid tax that 99% people do (including yourself, myself and majority of Western leaders where tax laws are most advanced). It actually means all of us are morally corrupt.

Time to find another honest person because someone who probably gave up on BILLIONS and sacrificed his family life for his country is not good enough for this nation and who are good enough for the nation Nawaz, Zardari, Altaf, Fazlu, Asfandyar WOW!!
 
Godzilla has owned endymion248. He fails to understand something so simple.

The law was created so people from abroad would continue to live or move to the UK and pay different types of taxes. It's not a loophole, it's a form of tax completion available to them.
 
I feel people here support or oppose others not based on potential evidence but "heroism" , "the ability to be a philanthropist" and if you have the name "Kumar" at the end.

A few choice remarks here and there, and then back to the same bridge.
 
Just heard Rauf Klasra's story about Imran Khan when he purchased Bani Gala land, he was suggested not to declare real value of his land so he could save hundreds of thousands in duty, he refused and declared real value and paid full duty. Not saying he did something out of this world but compare this our SHAIR Nawaz Sharir who changed the law for one day when registering his own land to saved millions of Rs on duty :)
 
Just heard Rauf Klasra's story about Imran Khan when he purchased Bani Gala land, he was suggested not to declare real value of his land so he could save hundreds of thousands in duty, he refused and declared real value and paid full duty. Not saying he did something out of this world but compare this our SHAIR Nawaz Sharir who changed the law for one day when registering his own land to saved millions of Rs on duty :)

Nawaz is rightly castigated for doing such a thing, if it did happen.

Imran should be praised for doing what every citizen must do?

That's what it has come to.
 
Nawaz is rightly castigated for doing such a thing, if it did happen.

Imran should be praised for doing what every citizen must do?

That's what it has come to.

Absolutely agree with you there. Imran should not be praised for what every citizen is expected to do.

Similarly, he should also not be criticized for something every citizen is expected to do, which is not to pay more taxes than you have to. In Imran's case he was not even the citizen of the country.
 
Absolutely agree with you there. Imran should not be praised for what every citizen is expected to do.

Similarly, he should also not be criticized for something every citizen is expected to do, which is not to pay more taxes than you have to. In Imran's case he was not even the citizen of the country.

That was my point too, didn't say Imran did something extra ordinary as we are all expected to follow the rules but comparison to our other possible options is natural, do they follow the same rules? Well they actually go out of their way to break/exploit every rule they possibly can without anyone even blinking an eye. Imran's so called offshore company is definitely worth discussing but it's amazing when some people spend hours discussing a non issue but fail to even talk about MUCH MUCH larger issue then they are not really neutral as they pretend to be.
 
Absolutely agree with you there. Imran should not be praised for what every citizen is expected to do.

Similarly, he should also not be criticized for something every citizen is expected to do, which is not to pay more taxes than you have to. In Imran's case he was not even the citizen of the country.

I criticized him for "forgetting about having an offshore company".

You don't forget your own company.

That was a blatant lie.

I really don't care if he legally avoided taxes or not, as any sane man probably would choose that avenue.
 
Dude, buying property through off-shore corporations IS envelopping. That's the definition of the term and it is quoted in your own post too. Are you really this thick?

Not thick enough not to see the word 'only'. And not so cowardly to make false promises or to run away from a challenge.

The only reason to have continued this far given I've proven how false your position is on multiple occasions with official sources is to see just how unintelligent, petulant and shamelessly dishonest someone can be. Thats been the only surprise here. Some people are born to climb and some to crawl I guess.
 
Godzilla has owned endymion248. He fails to understand something so simple.

The law was created so people from abroad would continue to live or move to the UK and pay different types of taxes. It's not a loophole, it's a form of tax completion available to them.

It's not an interesting debate apart from proving the dishonesty and stupidity of people making libellous false accusations against people trying to do good in that country.

It was all very obvious from the outset. The question is what these kinds of people are trying to achieve by lying.
 
Again there will be no answer as to how "Imran could claim before had no offshore company".

And when it somehow showed up , he conveniently said, "He forgot he had the company."

You won't see a more blatant lie than this.

But as usual, those who defend heroes, would find this magnanimous of Imran to have a company and actually forget that it existed because he was too busy "trying to save his nation".
 
Again there will be no answer as to how "Imran could claim before had no offshore company".

And when it somehow showed up , he conveniently said, "He forgot he had the company."

You won't see a more blatant lie than this.

But as usual, those who defend heroes, would find this magnanimous of Imran to have a company and actually forget that it existed because he was too busy "trying to save his nation".

Imran Khan showed his apartment sale deed in 2011 which was under this off shore company's name. It was distributed to media then. So, he never hid it. It was their on the deed. You can even see the his press conference in 2011 showing his sale deed. It's not a revelation, really. You think a company worth 9 pounds is worth hiding?
 
Imran Khan showed his apartment sale deed in 2011 which was under this off shore company's name. It was distributed to media then. So, he never hid it. It was their on the deed. You can even see the his press conference in 2011 showing his sale deed. It's not a revelation, really. You think a company worth 9 pounds is worth hiding?

I think he is smart enough enough to understand that, just in trolling mode. Just check any thread and he will bring "PTI will turn Pakistan in to next Japan/Korea" and then he will claim i am not against anyone, just obnoxious supporters and then backtrack next minute and make these childish remarks like Imran will turn Pakistan into Japan so clearly just trolling.
 
Imran Khan showed his apartment sale deed in 2011 which was under this off shore company's name. It was distributed to media then. So, he never hid it. It was their on the deed. You can even see the his press conference in 2011 showing his sale deed. It's not a revelation, really. You think a company worth 9 pounds is worth hiding?

Then why does he say "I forgot about it" in the beginning of the article.

Clearly you know more about Imran Khan than the man himself.
 
I think he is smart enough enough to understand that, just in trolling mode. Just check any thread and he will bring "PTI will turn Pakistan in to next Japan/Korea" and then he will claim i am not against anyone, just obnoxious supporters and then backtrack next minute and make these childish remarks like Imran will turn Pakistan into Japan so clearly just trolling.

Truth is always bitter.

Die hard fanatics like you don't help either.
 
Truth is always bitter.

Die hard fanatics like you don't help either.

Truth is bitter indeed bro, it's absolutely childish of you to repeat the sarcastic remarks that Imran will come and turn Pakistan into Japan, even threads where we are discussing PPP as a party or Nawaz Sharif's corruption.
 
Truth is bitter indeed bro, it's absolutely childish of you to repeat the sarcastic remarks that Imran will come and turn Pakistan into Japan, even threads where we are discussing PPP as a party or Nawaz Sharif's corruption.

That's because the throwaround topics are....

PPP is corrupt

Nawaz Sharif is Corrupt

Imran is honest but does not get a chance.
 
You arguments were childish and made no sense,Godzilla has made mince meat out of you, quit while you are behind. I cant remember the last time someone was so badly beaten.

Yeah, sure, if we consider ignoring inconvenient parts of other people's arguments as making ''mince meat''.
 
Saari raat ronday raye te marya koi vi nai, oh bhai which corruption are you talking about? There are 4 pages on this thread explaining there was absolutely NO CORRUPTION by Imran Khan. The only argument left is whether it's moral corruption to legally avoid tax that 99% people do (including yourself, myself and majority of Western leaders where tax laws are most advanced). It actually means all of us are morally corrupt.

Time to find another honest person because someone who probably gave up on BILLIONS and sacrificed his family life for his country is not good enough for this nation and who are good enough for the nation Nawaz, Zardari, Altaf, Fazlu, Asfandyar WOW!!

Owning property through off-shore tax havens is not something 99% of people do. And they certainly don't cost the treasury billions of pounds through schemes like this:

Tax haven ownership of UK property might cost £2 billion year in tax avoidance

From the financial times:

At least £122bn of property in England and Wales is held through companies in offshore tax havens where ownership is difficult to trace, a Financial Times analysis of Land Registry data has found

Nearly two out of three of the 91,248 foreign-company owned properties in England and Wales are held via the British Virgin Islands and Channel Island structures. Just under two-thirds of the offshore-owned property by value is in Greater London, with 27 per cent in the City of Westminster. The Land Registry data do not allow a breakdown between residential and commercial property.

The total value of offshore ownership of property is likely to be considerably higher than £122bn. Limitations on how the Land Registry holds the data mean the true picture is difficult to ascertain. More than a third of the data provided by the Land Registry do not contain a purchase price.

What the FT does not estimate is the cost of this. At least three taxes are potentially being avoided here. They are stamp duty, inheritance tax and capital gains tax. A fourth could be income tax if the properties are being let and are artificially loaded with debt to avoid payment, but I am going to ignore this last issue and look at the first three alone.

First, it is highly likely that there is ‘churn’ in the ownership of the portfolio of at least 91,000 properties to which this data refers. It would be very surprising if average ownership periods exceeded 10 years given the nature of the ownership, the fact that they have been put in tax haven ownership to avoid stamp duty on sale and the nature of this market. This activity has now gone on for some time. Because most of the properties are in greater London they are likely (but not certain) to be residential. Recent tax charges to discourage this activity does not have appeared to deter the offshore ownership pattern. The average property is worth at least £1.3 million, and probably rather more by now since this will be historic data. Assuming that prices have not inflated but that property is domestic a 5% stamp duty rate would be appropriate. If 9,100 properties changed hands a year that is at least £610 million of stamp duty avoided, and probably somewhat more due to price increases over time not allowed for in the calculation. If average prices have inflated since purchase as I note below when looking at capital gains tax it is likely the loss might be £900 million a year. I will use the lower estimate.

One of the attractions of holding property offshore as opposed to through a UK company (which is, of course, possible to avoid stamp duty on transfer) is that for the non-dom this avoids inheritance tax on an asset located in the UK. So how many of the owners of these properties die a year? I generally assume wealth is owned by older people and so that it is fair to assume 1/30 of all wealth might be subject to an inheritance tax charge in any year. In this group wealth may be more widely dispersed. In that case a rate of 1/40 of all property being subject to inheritance tax could be a more appropriate estimate. In that case about £3 billion of property may miss a charge at a rate of 40%. That is £1.2 billion avoided.

And then there is capital gain tax. If a ten year ownership period of residential property in London is assumed and this is prime central London housing then estate agents John D Wood suggest that London prices have almost exactly doubled from March 2004 to March 2014. That means that if property that cost £12.2 billion is sold each year on average the sale price could be double that. However, in reality, the purchase price of property held for ten years would, of course, on average be lower than the average of the sample as the whole for reason of that price increase too. On average the portfolio would have been bought in 2009, since when the gain has been about 50% of cost price. In that case, to be cautious, I will assume the average gain on the portfolio likely to be sold was 50% of declared average purchase price, or about £6.1 billion in this case.

Not all this sum would have been subject to CGT: some of these properties are subject to principal private residence relief, but some will not and some will be let. Assuming just one third are subject to CGT, and that seems fair given these two factors, that would leave gains avoided on a little over £2 billion that might have been payable at 28%. That is £510 million avoided.

This leaves £2.3 billion of tax avoided. No wonder in that case that there has been a surprising willingness amongst owners of these properties to pay the new ‘envelope’ tax charge introduced by George Osborne that has yielded much more than expected, with over £200 million expected to be paid this year. The avoidance activity still pays handsomely with a likely net return of more than £2 billion a year, at cost to the rest of us in the UK.

From http://www.taxresearch.org.uk
 
Today I have seen what [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] meant about the problem with Imran using absuive language towards his political opponents. It naturally seeps through towards lower and lower parts of Insafiyaan hierarchy to such an extent that even the random PTI supporter can't have a debate without trying to avoid others with language such as cowards, shameless, crawler etc... Such a sad state of affair Pakistan has come to.
 
Again there will be no answer as to how "Imran could claim before had no offshore company".

And when it somehow showed up , he conveniently said, "He forgot he had the company."

You won't see a more blatant lie than this.

But as usual, those who defend heroes, would find this magnanimous of Imran to have a company and actually forget that it existed because he was too busy "trying to save his nation".

As Waseem pointed out you are either acting troll or just heard propaganda statement from Pervez Rasheed/GEO about IK telling he forgot it. Can you show any video or his quoted statement where he said "he forgot his company"? In the OP article, due to your reading comprehension problem, you are mixing Naeem ul HAQ with IK. If Naeem ul Haq said he forgot about IK company then where is the problem?
 
Not thick enough not to see the word 'only'. And not so cowardly to make false promises or to run away from a challenge.

The only reason to have continued this far given I've proven how false your position is on multiple occasions with official sources is to see just how unintelligent, petulant and shamelessly dishonest someone can be. Thats been the only surprise here. Some people are born to climb and some to crawl I guess.

Average PTI supporter modus operandi: when you can't answer somebody's points, start calling them names.
 
Owning property through off-shore tax havens is not something 99% of people do. And they certainly don't cost the treasury billions of pounds through schemes like this:

Tax haven ownership of UK property might cost £2 billion year in tax avoidance

From the financial times:



What the FT does not estimate is the cost of this. At least three taxes are potentially being avoided here. They are stamp duty, inheritance tax and capital gains tax. A fourth could be income tax if the properties are being let and are artificially loaded with debt to avoid payment, but I am going to ignore this last issue and look at the first three alone.

First, it is highly likely that there is ‘churn’ in the ownership of the portfolio of at least 91,000 properties to which this data refers. It would be very surprising if average ownership periods exceeded 10 years given the nature of the ownership, the fact that they have been put in tax haven ownership to avoid stamp duty on sale and the nature of this market. This activity has now gone on for some time. Because most of the properties are in greater London they are likely (but not certain) to be residential. Recent tax charges to discourage this activity does not have appeared to deter the offshore ownership pattern. The average property is worth at least £1.3 million, and probably rather more by now since this will be historic data. Assuming that prices have not inflated but that property is domestic a 5% stamp duty rate would be appropriate. If 9,100 properties changed hands a year that is at least £610 million of stamp duty avoided, and probably somewhat more due to price increases over time not allowed for in the calculation. If average prices have inflated since purchase as I note below when looking at capital gains tax it is likely the loss might be £900 million a year. I will use the lower estimate.

One of the attractions of holding property offshore as opposed to through a UK company (which is, of course, possible to avoid stamp duty on transfer) is that for the non-dom this avoids inheritance tax on an asset located in the UK. So how many of the owners of these properties die a year? I generally assume wealth is owned by older people and so that it is fair to assume 1/30 of all wealth might be subject to an inheritance tax charge in any year. In this group wealth may be more widely dispersed. In that case a rate of 1/40 of all property being subject to inheritance tax could be a more appropriate estimate. In that case about £3 billion of property may miss a charge at a rate of 40%. That is £1.2 billion avoided.

And then there is capital gain tax. If a ten year ownership period of residential property in London is assumed and this is prime central London housing then estate agents John D Wood suggest that London prices have almost exactly doubled from March 2004 to March 2014. That means that if property that cost £12.2 billion is sold each year on average the sale price could be double that. However, in reality, the purchase price of property held for ten years would, of course, on average be lower than the average of the sample as the whole for reason of that price increase too. On average the portfolio would have been bought in 2009, since when the gain has been about 50% of cost price. In that case, to be cautious, I will assume the average gain on the portfolio likely to be sold was 50% of declared average purchase price, or about £6.1 billion in this case.

Not all this sum would have been subject to CGT: some of these properties are subject to principal private residence relief, but some will not and some will be let. Assuming just one third are subject to CGT, and that seems fair given these two factors, that would leave gains avoided on a little over £2 billion that might have been payable at 28%. That is £510 million avoided.

This leaves £2.3 billion of tax avoided. No wonder in that case that there has been a surprising willingness amongst owners of these properties to pay the new ‘envelope’ tax charge introduced by George Osborne that has yielded much more than expected, with over £200 million expected to be paid this year. The avoidance activity still pays handsomely with a likely net return of more than £2 billion a year, at cost to the rest of us in the UK.

From http://www.taxresearch.org.uk

Irrelevant. This article doesn't say that all offshore structure owns property is avoidance. It also doesn't reference cases like imrans which are non Dom offshore owned residence which the uk over meant website quoted already proves is acceptable to the government. 'Are you really that thick?'

Typical tactic of an insaaf hater - irrelevancy and distraction.
 
Average PTI supporter modus operandi: when you can't answer somebody's points, start calling them names.

Average insaaf hater patwari corruption eater modus operandus - don't fulfill foolish promises made, don't answer direct questions that expose your lies, and be hypocritical in your tears about bad language when you use it first.

So sad. The mirrors must be all broken in your home given the gross rank hypocrisy.
 
Irrelevant. This article doesn't say that all offshore structure owns property is avoidance. It also doesn't reference cases like imrans which are non Dom offshore owned residence which the uk over meant website quoted already proves is acceptable to the government. 'Are you really that thick?'

Typical tactic of an insaaf hater - irrelevancy and distraction.

It just so happens that the article is referencing enveloping which is EXACTLY what Imran did and even the government website you quoted calls it enveloping. The new Osborne tax applies to non-doms all the same.
 
Average insaaf hater patwari corruption eater modus operandus - don't fulfill foolish promises made, don't answer direct questions that expose your lies, and be hypocritical in your tears about bad language when you use it first.

So sad. The mirrors must be all broken in your home given the gross rank hypocrisy.

I see you're going double or nothing with the insults. Lagay raho.
 
Today I have seen what [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] meant about the problem with Imran using absuive language towards his political opponents. It naturally seeps through towards lower and lower parts of Insafiyaan hierarchy to such an extent that even the random PTI supporter can't have a debate without trying to avoid others with language such as cowards, shameless, crawler etc... Such a sad state of affair Pakistan has come to.

As I said before, PTI supporters are the type of people with whom you simply cannot have a conversation.

You are either an Imran supporter or a hater, and if you are not with Imran, you are a Nawaz supporter,
 
It just so happens that the article is referencing enveloping which is EXACTLY what Imran did and even the government website you quoted calls it enveloping. The new Osborne tax applies to non-doms all the same.
What the new Osborne regime does isn't relevant is it? Yet again.
I'll ask the question again since it seems so difficult for you to answer: where does it say using an offshore structure for a non-Dom foreign citizen to own uk property is avoidance? Bearing in mind I've already proven the government has acceded is design and acceptability.
 
I see you're going double or nothing with the insults. Lagay raho.

I think there is a kettle somewhere trying to call you.

Although strictly speaking it's not name calling if it's factually accurate, for example, hypocrisy is shameless.
 
As I said before, PTI supporters are the type of people with whom you simply cannot have a conversation.

You are either an Imran supporter or a hater, and if you are not with Imran, you are a Nawaz supporter,

You're right, it's ingrained in their fitrat now. Debating with them is just muddying up one's own character.

I hope you warn me the next time I make the mistake of engaging an Insafiyaan thinking that he can have a civilized debate - and I will do the same favour for you.
 
Imran Khan is a liar and a cheat. This is a Fact. He is same like other politicians of Pakistan (Nawaz, Zardari etc.).
 
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