India’s Supreme Court decriminalises gay sex in historic ruling

[Kashmirilion]

India's supreme court is expected to issue a verdict on Thursday on decriminalising consensual gay sex in the country.

Since July, the court has been hearing testimonies from campaigners and celebrities arguing gay sex between consenting adults should not be banned.


Gay sex is punishable with life imprisonment in India.

Under section 377 of the Indian penal code - a relic from the 1860s British legislation - gay acts are banned as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature".

A lawyer for one of the petitioners in the case, Tripti Tandon, has confirmed the judgment was expected on Thursday.

Her client, Aris Jafer, was arrested and sent to prison for 50 days in 2001.

The Delhi high court effectively decriminalised gay sex in 2009 - but the supreme court reinstated legal sanctions four years later after a successful appeal by religious groups.

Gay sex has long been a taboo in India and same-sex couples cannot legally marry or obtain a civil partnership.

Reports of honour killings, attacks, torture and beatings of members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community are not uncommon in the country - and homophobia is widespread.

"We have high hopes from the supreme court," said Rituparna Borah, a co-director of campaign group Nazariya.

"This law should not have been there is the first place. This should have gone long back. We are asking for our basic human rights, nothing more," she added.

According to official figures, 2,187 cases under section 377 were registered in 2016 under the category "unnatural offences".




https://news.sky.com/story/indias-supreme-court-set-to-rule-on-decriminalising-homosexuality-11490968

 

[hafeezrocks]

Proud moment for Bhartiyas

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

Great

 

[Robert]

Well done India for this liberalism.

 

[MenInG]

NEW DELHI — India’s top court overturned a 157-year old law criminalizing gay sex in a landmark victory for gay rights in the world’s largest democracy.

A panel of five judges issued a unanimous judgment striking down the provision and affirming the right to equality and dignity.

“Respect for individual choice is the essence of liberty,” Dipak Misra, India’s chief justice, told a packed courtroom. “This freedom can only be fulfilled when each of us realizes that the LGBT community possesses equal rights.”

Activists have struggled for more than a decade to invalidate Section 377 of the Indian penal code, a provision that dates to the colonial era. The law prohibited consensual “carnal intercourse against the order of nature.”

While the statute was rarely used as a basis for prosecution, its presence meant that gay people faced threats, harassment and blackmail. It also served as a constant reminder to the gay community that the state considered their sexuality illegal.

The ruling sparked jubilation among members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) community. News channels showed people in cities across India weeping and embracing as they celebrated the historic decision.

“It is a great day for India,” said Balachandran Ramaiah, an investment banker in Mumbai and one of the many plaintiffs who challenged the law. “People are going to dance through the night.”

Thursday’s ruling is also a boost for gay rights around the globe. India was the most populous country in the world that still had a law on the books criminalizing gay sex. As of last year, more than 70 countries had such laws, according to the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association.

In court on Thursday, one of the judges acknowledged the long injustice of the provision. “It is difficult to right the wrong of history, but we can certainly set the course for the future,” said Justice Dhananjaya Chandrachud.

Section 377 served as a pretext for extortion and continued prejudice, said Harish Iyer, a gay rights activist in Mumbai. Thursday’s ruling “is a landmark judgment for democracy as a whole,” he said. “People cannot be diminished, and their identities cannot be disregarded because they are few in number.”

[As India awaits court judgment, city holds its first gay pride rally]

The judgment reflects rapid social change in India, where only five years ago, the top court upheld the same law. Since then, campaigners have mobilized a movement to spread awareness about gay rights. In recent years, more than 30 Indian cities have held their first gay pride parades, and public protests against Section 377 have spread across the country.

Economic and technological changes have spurred shifts in thinking, too — cheap smartphones and mobile data opened young Indians to global trends and dating apps, while the mushrooming of India’s information technology sector has created a richer — and freer — generation of urban youth. Film, theater and pop culture show openly gay characters and in some cases challenge gay stereotypes.

Still, conservative attitudes toward homosexuality persist. Many LGBTQ Indians avoid coming out to their families, fearing ostracism and mockery. Some have reported being forced to undergo rituals and therapies that claim to “cure” homosexuality.

“I can’t find the words to express my happiness,” Anjali Gopalan, founder of the Naz Foundation, a nongovernmental organization that first began mounting a challenge to Section 377 in 2001, said in the courtroom just minutes after the verdict. “It’s been an unbelievable journey. I can’t believe this day came in my lifetime.”

The Supreme Court decision is expected to be celebrated across India throughout the day and into the night. Activists pledged that the ruling was just the beginning. They vowed to continue to seek legal protection from violence and abuse and seek the right to marry and adopt children.

Thursday’s ruling came after the Supreme Court declared a constitutional right to privacy in an unrelated case, opening the door for judges to reinterpret Section 377.

Over the summer, the court heard six petitions — including from a group of graduates of India’s top universities, who argued that criminalizing gay sex had a negative economic impact, and from a group of parents of LGBTQ individuals, who argued that their children deserved protection, not persecution from the law.

Ahead of Thursday’s judgment, campaigners and activists were optimistic. Judges had expressed empathy for LGBTQ people during earlier hearings and had even narrated the story of Alan Turing, who created a machine to crack encrypted German messages during World War II and was then chemically castrated because of his sexuality.

Judges in India have gone back and forth on Section 377. In 2009, Delhi’s High Court struck down the law.

Four years later, a Hindu astrologer named Suresh Kumar Koushal teamed up with Christian and Muslim religious organizations and challenged the order in the Supreme Court, arguing that homosexuality was immoral and could even threaten national security. A two-judge bench at the time recriminalized homosexuality. That judgment stood until Thursday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4802e4441ac9

 

[Sidilicious]

Well done

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Delighted with this news.

 

[AMSS]

Delighted with this news.

Finally got a reason to visit India?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Finally got a reason to visit India?

I'm happily married with kids so kindly stop winking at me.

 

[AMSS]

I'm happily married with kids so kindly stop winking at me.

If you say so

" "

 

[Major]

I'm happily married with kids so kindly stop winking at me.

)


......


How do Pakistani's view this? Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.
One problem is, kids are often targeted by sexual predators.

By legalizing this, would this limit child sexual abuses and be better for the society?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Great news. Private affairs of individuals is no concern of the state. And the withdrawal of the state in this regard is welcome.

 

[boomboomcheema]

)


......


How do Pakistani's view this? Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.
One problem is, kids are often targeted by sexual predators.

By legalizing this, would this limit child sexual abuses and be better for the society?

Has Child Sex ended in countries where homosexuality is legal?

 

[Major]

Has Child Sex ended in countries where homosexuality is legal?

obviously not, but doesn't it reduce when homosexuality is made legal

 

[Yossarian]

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.

What do you mean by "homosexuality is on the rise" ? If being gay (as is claimed by most gays) is genetic, then are you saying that these genetic differences are on the rise?

 

[dildilpak]

Huge difference between child sexual abuse & adults having consensual sex. Big underlying misconception here that gays are the reason for child abuse - predators can be of any sexual orientation & most child abusers are often family members of the victim.

 

[Major]

What do you mean by "homosexuality is on the rise" ? If being gay (as is claimed by most gays) is genetic, then are you saying that these genetic differences are on the rise?

by that i meant, people are indulging in these activities more and more. Especially amongest the poor workers in areas.

some people consider this not to be homosexuality, but people getting into such acts because of hard it is in our society to approach a women

 

[hadi123]

Good. People can love who they want to.

 

[troodon]

by that i meant, people are indulging in these activities more and more. Especially amongest the poor workers in areas.

some people consider this not to be homosexuality, but people getting into such acts because of hard it is in our society to approach a women

There were always a good chink of gay people in all human societies. Its not on the rise. But more and more are coming out in the open.

In Subcontinent, the sexually repressed men become molesters and rapists. Not homos.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

)


......


How do Pakistani's view this? Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.
One problem is, kids are often targeted by sexual predators.

By legalizing this, would this limit child sexual abuses and be better for the society?

Each society must come to it's own conclusions depending on cultural direction. If India is now accepting homosexuality as a positive structure of society, then we should respect that it was allowed to make that call in it's own time. Pakistani people should also be allowed the same grace and understanding to evolve/devolve their moral codes according to the wishes of their population.

 

[Adijazz1706]

What do you mean by "homosexuality is on the rise" ? If being gay (as is claimed by most gays) is genetic, then are you saying that these genetic differences are on the rise?

Has it been proven to be genetic? Saying homosexuality or bestiality or pedophilia is genetic should have evidence for siad claims

 

[JaDed]

Good decision, delayed by 5 years atleast.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bestiality and paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Good decision, delayed by 5 years atleast.

Yeah. But never too late I guess.

 

[Jin Chacha]

Just out of curiosity how is homosexuality viewed in Hinduism? Could there be any backlash from religious groups regarding this decision?

 

[boomboomcheema]

Bestiality and paedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Yes must take your word on that. You seem to be an expert on these matters.

 

[ChuckLee]

Great decision by India. Their neighbours will carry on coming up with excuses on why it should stay illegal.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Yes must take your word on that. You seem to be an expert on these matters.

You don't need to be an expert to realise that paedophilia and bestiality , apart from other differences, involve a basic lack of consent. Completely different to what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms. No state should interfere with that.

 

[troodon]

Just out of curiosity how is homosexuality viewed in Hinduism? Could there be any backlash from religious groups regarding this decision?

Some say it is unnatural and a mental disease. Some say, it always existed and should be accepted and some don't care or don't want to talk about it.

Some famous Hindus quotes:
“Homosexuality has never been considered a crime in Hindu culture. In fact, Lord Ayyappa was born of Hari-Hara (Vishnu & Shiva). It is not a crime in any Smriti. Everyone has male & female elements. According to their dominance, tendencies show up & may change. Nobody should face discrimination because of their sexual preferences. To be branded a criminal for this is absurd.” - H.H. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

Baba Ramdev: He thinks Homosexuality is a disease.
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/131...homosexuality-disease-yoga-can-cure-it-ramdev

Adi Shankara:
philosophers such as Shankaracharya, the individual soul is a part of the all-encompassing soul or paramatman that is analogous to Brahman. The individual soul is regarded as eternal, a repository of the divine potential in any being, thus conveying the inherent divinity of Man and the transience of the body. This metaphysical view is succinctly captured in the Upanishadic aphorisms, “Aham Brahmasmi” (I am Brahman) and “Tat Tvam Asi” (Thou art That) as well as in Shankaracharya’s awe-inspiring six-stanza poem on the nature of the soul, ‘Atma Shatkam.’

Understanding this epistemological and philosophical construct is vital to our inquiry as Brahman is seen as being gender neutral, neither male nor female. By extension, since the individual soul is divine and in non-dualist philosophy at least, a part of paramatman, it too, should be seen as neither male nor female. Since the individual is fundamentally not the body but the soul, he or she too is ultimately gender neutral. This suggests that the binary of male and female is a constructed difference that arises in the temporal world, with no individual in reality being either completely male or female, thus implying that gender is a spectrum.
https://swarajyamag.com/culture/hinduism-and-homosexuality

We can see that there is no standard consensus in Hinduism about Homo Sexuality. I am not surprised by that. Hinduism is a culture. Not a religion. Thousands of schools of thoughts flourished in India and each have millions of followers.

 

[Jin Chacha]

Some say it is unnatural and a mental disease. Some say, it always existed and should be accepted and some don't care or don't want to talk about it.

Some famous Hindus quotes:
“Homosexuality has never been considered a crime in Hindu culture. In fact, Lord Ayyappa was born of Hari-Hara (Vishnu & Shiva). It is not a crime in any Smriti. Everyone has male & female elements. According to their dominance, tendencies show up & may change. Nobody should face discrimination because of their sexual preferences. To be branded a criminal for this is absurd.” - H.H. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

Baba Ramdev: He thinks Homosexuality is a disease.
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/131...homosexuality-disease-yoga-can-cure-it-ramdev

Adi Shankara:
philosophers such as Shankaracharya, the individual soul is a part of the all-encompassing soul or paramatman that is analogous to Brahman. The individual soul is regarded as eternal, a repository of the divine potential in any being, thus conveying the inherent divinity of Man and the transience of the body. This metaphysical view is succinctly captured in the Upanishadic aphorisms, “Aham Brahmasmi” (I am Brahman) and “Tat Tvam Asi” (Thou art That) as well as in Shankaracharya’s awe-inspiring six-stanza poem on the nature of the soul, ‘Atma Shatkam.’

Understanding this epistemological and philosophical construct is vital to our inquiry as Brahman is seen as being gender neutral, neither male nor female. By extension, since the individual soul is divine and in non-dualist philosophy at least, a part of paramatman, it too, should be seen as neither male nor female. Since the individual is fundamentally not the body but the soul, he or she too is ultimately gender neutral. This suggests that the binary of male and female is a constructed difference that arises in the temporal world, with no individual in reality being either completely male or female, thus implying that gender is a spectrum.
https://swarajyamag.com/culture/hinduism-and-homosexuality

We can see that there is no standard consensus in Hinduism about Homo Sexuality. I am not surprised by that. Hinduism is a culture. Not a religion. Thousands of schools of thoughts flourished in India and each have millions of followers.

Thanks for the detailed response. So it seems any a large proportion of the population would either be supportive of or indifferent to the decision. Or at least not openly opposed to it.

 

[troodon]

Thanks for the detailed response. So it seems any a large proportion of the population would either be supportive of or indifferent to the decision. Or at least not openly opposed to it.

Most don't care until it effects them. There is definitely some stigma attached to Homosexuality. But people do not go out of their way to persecute Gays and Lesbians. Just my opinion after spending 21 years of my life in India.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Good will continue the moral degeneration of their society. Good for Pakistan.

 

[Rafa]

Good for India, going by the celebrations from Indians all over the Internet and media you would think they have found a cure to cancer and Aids.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Great decision by India. Their neighbours will carry on coming up with excuses on why it should stay illegal.

The neighbours are Islamic countries which do not accept homosexuality as a legitimate practice so they don't need excuses. You might argue they are backward, but then you would have to question why it took until now for India to legitimise homosexual relations when they have no religious impediments.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The neighbours are Islamic countries which do not accept homosexuality as a legitimate practice so they don't need excuses. You might argue they are backward, but then you would have to question why it took until now for India to legitimise homosexual relations when they have no religious impediments.

Homoism is bad, let there be no doubt about it. In Hinduism, homoism was not punished, but was also not encouraged. This is a backward step, which will only encourage depravity and unnatural behavior. The indians who are rejoicing are doing so because they want to be clubbed with western countries who are their spiritual masters.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Homoism is bad, let there be no doubt about it. In Hinduism, homoism was not punished, but was also not encouraged. This is a backward step, which will only encourage depravity and unnatural behavior. The indians who are rejoicing are doing so because they want to be clubbed with western countries who are their spiritual masters.

Abandoning your cultural values and idolizing the people who ruled and exploited you is ironic. Pre 1947 there was a khadi revolution and now there is little difference in clothing between Brits and Desis

 

[troodon]

Abandoning your cultural values and idolizing the people who ruled and exploited you is ironic. Pre 1947 there was a khadi revolution and now there is little difference in clothing between Brits and Desis

A lot of irony here in this post.

Culture and religion are superficial. They change from time to time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I still dont understand why do we continue with the antiquated IPC and CrPC. We should have written our iwn penal code but guess Nehru and co. Were in a hurry or just too lazy.

Now we spend precious court and legislature time removing these laws one by one.

Not to mention the fact that it would have meant a less authrotarian bureaucracy and police.

 

[Adijazz1706]

A lot of irony here in this post.

Culture and religion are superficial. They change from time to time.

If culture and religion are superficial, what are emotions?

 

[James]

Well done India, progressive move.

 

[troodon]

If culture and religion are superficial, what are emotions?

Emotions remain the same through out. But they can be twisted to suit the new culture.

 

[troodon]

I still dont understand why do we continue with the antiquated IPC and CrPC. We should have written our iwn penal code but guess Nehru and co. Were in a hurry or just too lazy.

Now we spend precious court and legislature time removing these laws one by one.

Not to mention the fact that it would have meant a less authrotarian bureaucracy and police.

Is it difficult to come with New Penal Code?

 

[Yossarian]

You don't need to be an expert to realise that paedophilia and bestiality , apart from other differences, involve a basic lack of consent. Completely different to what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms. No state should interfere with that.

Does that mean that no matter "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms" should be permissible for anything and everything they may wish to do to each other as long as no one else is involved or affected? Injecting each other with hard drugs, or voluntary euthanasia being two such examples. And just to pre-empt the obvious response, in the examples quoted, there is no doubt that appropriate proof existed that the actions were consensual and both sides were aware of the potential outcomes in advance.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Is it difficult to come with New Penal Code?

Most countries that are newly formed make their own penal codes.Nehru retained the British IPC and CrPc for god knows what reason. There are various theories on this. Google Article 147 of Indian constitution.

 

[troodon]

Most countries that are newly formed make their own penal codes.Nehru retained the British IPC and CrPc for god knows what reason. There are various theories on this. Google Article 147 of Indian constitution.

Thanks.

 

[ElRaja]

What do you mean by "homosexuality is on the rise" ? If being gay (as is claimed by most gays) is genetic, then are you saying that these genetic differences are on the rise?

theres seems to be a trend of men are finding it more difficult to attract women compared to previous generations in western society, as financial independence gives women a greater choice in whether to "settle" (in both meanings of the term) or not. i would be surprised if more bisexual men are not in homosexual relations compared to previous generations where (heterosexual relations pbly made life easier).

 

[zeusathon]

)


......


How do Pakistani's view this? Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.
One problem is, kids are often targeted by sexual predators.

By legalizing this, would this limit child sexual abuses and be better for the society?

Bad. Super Bad. Most of those bis do kids and boys because women are kept far away from them. Its never like they prefer men more.

 

[JaDed]

Abandoning your cultural values and idolizing the people who ruled and exploited you is ironic. Pre 1947 there was a khadi revolution and now there is little difference in clothing between Brits and Desis

Similar to referundum , a western concept ,ironical no?

 

[JaDed]

Yeah. But never too late I guess.

Yup, that's a good thing.

 

[James]

theres seems to be a trend of men are finding it more difficult to attract women compared to previous generations in western society, as financial independence gives women a greater choice in whether to "settle" (in both meanings of the term) or not. i would be surprised if more bisexual men are not in homosexual relations compared to previous generations where (heterosexual relations pbly made life easier).

Bang on

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Does that mean that no matter "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms" should be permissible for anything and everything they may wish to do to each other as long as no one else is involved or affected? Injecting each other with hard drugs, or voluntary euthanasia being two such examples. And just to pre-empt the obvious response, in the examples quoted, there is no doubt that appropriate proof existed that the actions were consensual and both sides were aware of the potential outcomes in advance.

Hard drugs and euthanasia harm these individuals and they possibly need help . You seem to be suggesting that people of alternative sexualities need help like they are mentally ill.

Regardless , yes. If sane , healthy individuals choose to voluntarily do do euthanasia or hard drugs in their own houses im ok with that.

 

[Madplayer]

As a muslim, i cannot defend this. I am not ashamed to say that homosexuality is considered detrimental to the functioning of society in Islam (and in all Abrahamic religions for that matter). I cannot support this decision but now that it is passed, we will have to respect it given that its the law of the land while maintaining our disagreements.

Next stop for these champions of sexual freedom is to allow people to have sex with animals or their pets as long as both love each other. Its not going to stop. How many genders are there again these days? Last i heard it was around 70.

 

[Madplayer]

Hard drugs and euthanasia harm these individuals and they possibly need help . You seem to be suggesting that people of alternative sexualities need help like they are mentally ill.

Regardless , yes. If sane , healthy individuals choose to voluntarily do do euthanasia or hard drugs in their own houses im ok with that.

If your neighbour tells you he wants to cut off his hand because it makes him look different than what he wants, would you consider him a mentally sound person? Thats what the transgender does when he gets his perfectly fine sexual parts removed surgically. But some people consider it absolutely normal now.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If your neighbour tells you he wants to cut off his hand because it makes him look different than what he wants, would you consider him a mentally sound person? Thats what the transgender does when he gets his perfectly fine sexual parts removed surgically. But some people consider it absolutely normal now.

If anybody does that to himself I would consider them if unsound mind. Because he is hurting himself in the process. Surgically people remove their appendix too. Is that considered mentally unsound as well?

 

[Madplayer]

If anybody does that to himself I would consider them if unsound mind. Because he is hurting himself in the process. Surgically people remove their appendix too. Is that considered mentally unsound as well?

Apples and oranges. Appendix is a vestegial organ and people generally remove it when it gets infected.
However, i get your point that people should be allowed to do what they want no matter how ******** it is.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Apples and oranges. Appendix is a vestegial organ and people generally remove it when it gets infected.
However, i get your point that people should be allowed to do what they want no matter how ... it is.

People should only be allowed to do what falls within national consensus and majoritarian morality. all this talk of individual freedom is what is causing fitnah in the world.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Similar to referundum , a western concept ,ironical no?

People coming together to decide on issues is no western concept, panchayats are an Indian example. Words do not matter here, connotations do

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Apples and oranges. Appendix is a vestegial organ and people generally remove it when it gets infected.
However, i get your point that people should be allowed to do what they want no matter how ******** it is.

No, the point is one can remove an organ without hurting a said individual. Chopping of one's own arm is not the same. Ive clearly stated that as long as people of sound mind choose to act in a manner that does not hurt them or others thet are free to do so. And yes I consider that moral. And I get your point, you will only support something if it fits with in with your cultural/religious bias and have stated as such above.

 

[dildilpak]

Does that mean that no matter "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms" should be permissible for anything and everything they may wish to do to each other as long as no one else is involved or affected? Injecting each other with hard drugs, or voluntary euthanasia being two such examples. And just to pre-empt the obvious response, in the examples quoted, there is no doubt that appropriate proof existed that the actions were consensual and both sides were aware of the potential outcomes in advance.

What is wrong with voluntary euthanasia? If a person has an incurable disease & does not want to suffer from the pain, it is his right to end his life - why should anybody let alone the Government interfere with that? Similarly, adults injecting themselves with drugs in a private environment is not an issue, unless they harm others in their intoxication - this is the reason why many advanced countries do not arrest drug users, but target drug peddlers. An adult individual has complete rights over his body & his personal life - till he does not cause harm to others & that includes his sexual orientation too- Individual rights 101.

 

[batnbowl]

)


......


How do Pakistani's view this? Is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

In Pakistani society homosexuality is on the rise, especially in the KPK area.
One problem is, kids are often targeted by sexual predators.

By legalizing this, would this limit child sexual abuses and be better for the society?

since when has Pedophilia been referred to as Gay sex?

 

[Madplayer]

No, the point is one can remove an organ without hurting a said individual. Chopping of one's own arm is not the same. Ive clearly stated that as long as people of sound mind choose to act in a manner that does not hurt them or others thet are free to do so. And yes I consider that moral. And I get your point, you will only support something if it fits with in with your cultural/religious bias and have stated as such above.

Sorry mate, you are beating around the bush without addressing the actual point. Okay how about your neighbour (sorry for bringing him again into this) deciding to surgically remove his perfectly fine hand, painlessly etc because he doesnt like how his hand makes him feel?

 

[Varun]

Next stop for these champions of sexual freedom is to allow people to have sex with animals or their pets as long as both love each other. Its not going to stop.

Loving the hyperbole to safeguard your ingrained insecurities.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Sorry mate, you are beating around the bush without addressing the actual point. Okay how about your neighbour (sorry for bringing him again into this) deciding to surgically remove his perfectly fine hand, painlessly etc because he doesnt like how his hand makes him feel?

Sorry im not the one beating around the bush. You have not given me one rational explanation why decriminalising was wrong.

 

[Mamoon]

Next stop for these champions of sexual freedom is to allow people to have sex with animals or their pets as long as both love each other. Its not going to stop. How many genders are there again these days? Last i heard it was around 70.

I accept the religious grounds and why people oppose homosexuality based on faith, but bestiality does not involve mutual consent and that is why it is not legal.

I personally do not have issues with homosexuality, but I am skeptical about the idea of homosexual couples adopting babies.

Having two fathers or two mothers is an unnatural environment for a child to grow up in, and he/she may not necessarily appreciate the fact that his gay parents have imposed their sexual orientation on her/him.

No matter how common homosexuality becomes or how accepting the society is, the vast majority of people will always be straight, because most people are driven by the natural human instinct of preventing its species from going extinct, and that is why the majority of people will always be straight.

 

[batnbowl]

Having two fathers or two mothers is an unnatural environment for a child to grow up in, and he/she may not necessarily appreciate the fact that his gay parents have imposed their sexual orientation on her/him.

What about having one father and four mothers, is that acceptable for a child?

 

[Mamoon]

What about having one father and four mothers, is that acceptable for a child?

No, and thankfully it rarely happens in the modern world. It only happens in Arab world these days, and I hope they will eventually move on from this practice.

 

[batnbowl]

No, and thankfully it rarely happens in the modern world. It only happens in Arab world these days, and I hope they will eventually move on from this practice.

OK. two wives on the other hand is not that uncommon in Pak? Seems to be the flavour of many Brit Pakistanis from certain cultural background so I would assume "back home" two mothers would also be more common than 4 mothers.....whats your take there?

 

[Vegitto1]

I guess we are not far from the time when we (world as a whole) shall suffer the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah.

In Islamic countries, Homosexuality is punishable by death, and rightly so. It's abnormal and against the teachings of every single religion, not just Islam.

These people will legalise incest after this (which is already legal in some European countries) and some people who are here advocating for legalising homosexuality will then advocate for legalising incest.

Kawwa Chala Hans ki Chaal, Apni Chaal bhi bhool gaya.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

OK. two wives on the other hand is not that uncommon in Pak? Seems to be the flavour of many Brit Pakistanis from certain cultural background so I would assume "back home" two mothers would also be more common than 4 mothers.....whats your take there?

Two mothers isn't that common either, but even so you would imagine it would be a totally different experience to having two lesbian mothers if you are trying to compare the two situations.

 

[hafeezrocks]

I guess we are not far from the time when we (world as a whole) shall suffer the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah.

In Islamic countries, Homosexuality is punishable by death, and rightly so. It's abnormal and against the teachings of every single religion, not just Islam.

These people will legalise incest after this (which is already legal in some European countries) and some people who are here advocating for legalising homosexuality will then advocate for legalising incest.

Kawwa Chala Hans ki Chaal, Apni Chaal bhi bhool gaya.

Hopefully that's how it will always stay in Islamic countries and they don't have to bow down to accept pervert practices like Homosexuality, Beastility, Incest to look modern in the eyes of West.

 

[Yossarian]

Hard drugs and euthanasia harm these individuals and they possibly need help . You seem to be suggesting that people of alternative sexualities need help like they are mentally ill.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm simply asking you a question using the logic you're basing your argument upon.

Regardless , yes. If sane , healthy individuals choose to voluntarily do do euthanasia or hard drugs in their own houses im ok with that.

Why do you qualify your response by adding "healthy" into your statement? You didn't include the word "healthy" when you stated "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms". And before you start spinning it by saying it's to ensure they're mentally capable of making that choice (vis-a-vis the voluntary euthanasia), then why not the same criteria for the other choices (vis-a-vis homosexual acts)?

Like I said above, don't assume I'm suggesting anything. I'm simply asking a question based your own logic.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I guess we are not far from the time when we (world as a whole) shall suffer the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah.

In Islamic countries, Homosexuality is punishable by death, and rightly so. It's abnormal and against the teachings of every single religion, not just Islam.

These people will legalise incest after this (which is already legal in some European countries) and some people who are here advocating for legalising homosexuality will then advocate for legalising incest.

Kawwa Chala Hans ki Chaal, Apni Chaal bhi bhool gaya.

No religion can or should dictate what two consenting adults want to do in their bedroom.

Incest marriages have scientific studies showing increased risk of genetic disorders.

 

[Yossarian]

What is wrong with voluntary euthanasia? If a person has an incurable disease & does not want to suffer from the pain, it is his right to end his life - why should anybody let alone the Government interfere with that?

Why introduce additional qualifiers when these are not being included in the arguments about consenting gay couples? Either be consistent in the arguments or state that separate rules are being made for gay couples when using the logic "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms".

Similarly, adults injecting themselves with drugs in a private environment is not an issue, unless they harm others in their intoxication - this is the reason why many advanced countries do not arrest drug users, but target drug peddlers. An adult individual has complete rights over his body & his personal life - till he does not cause harm to others & that includes his sexual orientation too- Individual rights 101.

Stop making false statements by claiming them to be true. In my post, I specifically said "hard drugs". You've written "..many advanced countries do not arrest drug users..". Name the 'advanced countries' that you claim do not arrest hard drug users.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No religion can or should dictate what two consenting adults want to do in their bedroom.

Incest marriages have scientific studies showing increased risk of genetic disorders.

Forget religion, even your own govt was dictating what two consenting adults did in their own bedroom prior to this week. Quite disgraceful really when you think there were not even any religious impediments for Indians to justify homophobic laws which have stood for so long in India.

 

[Yossarian]

No religion can or should dictate what two consenting adults want to do in their bedroom.

Incest marriages have scientific studies showing increased risk of genetic disorders.

So as far as you're concerned, incest between adult siblings and/or parents and adult offspring are acceptable to you as long as no children result from their activities, say by using appropriate precautions?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm simply asking you a question using the logic you're basing your argument upon.

Why do you qualify your response by adding "healthy" into your statement? You didn't include the word "healthy" when you stated "what two individuals consensually do in their own private bedrooms". And before you start spinning it by saying it's to ensure they're mentally capable of making that choice (vis-a-vis the voluntary euthanasia), then why not the same criteria for the other choices (vis-a-vis homosexual acts)?

Like I said above, don't assume I'm suggesting anything. I'm simply asking a question based your own logic.

Oh forgive me then. I took it for granted we are talking about healthy,mentally sound individuals . I didn't know I had to qualify every statement that I make.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So as far as you're concerned, incest between adult siblings and/or parents and adult offspring are acceptable to you as long as no children result from their activities, say by using appropriate precautions?

Ouch. Don't ask tough questions. The western copycats have no answer to this, for they derive their morality from the West's immorality.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

So, according to some folks, only what is acceptable to the majority should be allowed for the minority and they will come up with endless excuses to justify it.

 

[Hitman]

I guess we are not far from the time when we (world as a whole) shall suffer the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah.

In Islamic countries, Homosexuality is punishable by death, and rightly so. It's abnormal and against the teachings of every single religion, not just Islam.

These people will legalise incest after this (which is already legal in some European countries) and some people who are here advocating for legalising homosexuality will then advocate for legalising incest.

Kawwa Chala Hans ki Chaal, Apni Chaal bhi bhool gaya.

So it's correct to kill any gay couple who have sex? In other words, gay people do not have the right to enjoy sex like we heterosexual people do? The only difference being that we straight people prefer a partner of the opposite sex, while gay people prefer a partner of the same sex.

BTW, homosexuality is forbidden in Christianity too. Do we see Christian gay people put to death in other countries if they have sex? And therein lies the difference between civilized and uncivilized societies.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Hard drugs and euthanasia harm these individuals and they possibly need help . You seem to be suggesting that people of alternative sexualities need help like they are mentally ill.

Regardless , yes. If sane , healthy individuals choose to voluntarily do do euthanasia or hard drugs in their own houses im ok with that.

About the mentally ill part, homosexuality was considered a mental illness by the APA till the mid 70's and was removed due to protests by gay right activists, not due to solid scientific evidence to the contrary