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India [377/5] beat West Indies [153] by 224 runs in the fourth ODI to take 2-1 series lead

barah_admi said:
Does anyone care about this series?
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They cared when WI won the last match and called Asia Cup triumph as fluke! They didn't care Asia Cup when India were winning (they did care when India were looking like losing to Hong Kong). They cared very much when India lost to Pakistan in CT! They care two hoots when India won WC in 2011 (after all it was a gift from Saeed Ajmal!)
 
Ambati Rayudu & Khaleel Ahmed have booked their ticket for Aus series

Dhoni is going to Aus unless something embarrassing happens in the final odi
 
DRsohail said:
Khalil figures are impressive,how is he bowling?
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Only bowler in the match who is moving the ball a bit and there is a zip off the pitch in his bowling but the worrying thing from Khalil is that he has massively slowed down, was bowling around 145 KPH in Asia Cup and IPL but here he is down to 130s, either someone told him to bowl slow or he is bowling with fear.
 
Reddy said:
Only bowler in the match who is moving the ball a bit and there is a zip off the pitch in his bowling but the worrying thing from Khalil is that he has massively slowed down, was bowling around 145 KPH in Asia Cup and IPL but here he is down to 130s, either someone told him to bowl slow or he is bowling with fear.
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May be it is swing for which he has slowed down...anyways 135kph with swing both ways is enough.
 
DRsohail said:
May be it is swing for which he has slowed down...anyways 135kph with swing both ways is enough.
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It shows the fear psychosis in the team, Rishabh Pant and Rahul are sitting outside whereas oldies are blocking their places, Khalil knows he can be dropped on a whim, so he is playing with fear and trying to be safe. Khalil was hitting 145 KPH with ease in Asia Cup and in domestics Syed Mustaq Ali trophy i have seen him hit 149 KPH.
 
India should provide sportive pitches at home always! (like Asia Cup) Indian fans have moved ahead of big scoring games! That gives better opportunity for them to win matches and also helps their bowlers gain confidence when they go outside!
 
RamLakhan said:
India should provide sportive pitches at home always! (like Asia Cup) Indian fans have moved ahead of big scoring games! That gives better opportunity for them to win matches and also helps their bowlers gain confidence when they go outside!
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Asia Cup Dubai pitches are anamoly, This is an era of 350 plus scores, this Indian team will get mauled in the World Cup by England and Australia. Need of the hour was replacing slow players like Dhoni and Rayudu with explosive players like Pant, Rahul, Shaw, Ishan Kishan.
 
RamLakhan said:
They cared when WI won the last match and called Asia Cup triumph as fluke! They didn't care Asia Cup when India were winning (they did care when India were looking like losing to Hong Kong). They cared very much when India lost to Pakistan in CT! They care two hoots when India won WC in 2011 (after all it was a gift from Saeed Ajmal!)
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Epic epic reply
 
Peshwa said:
Epic epic reply
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Everyone has his point of view,even i wish WI to win but it does not mean i should not not care or should care.BTW some posters are not happy with khalil picking wickets with 130kph which is wrong,if he is swinging it both ways then 135kph is more than enough.
 
Poor from Kohli ,should have brought up Khalil to get 5 ,would have been confidence booster.
 
DRsohail said:
Everyone has his point of view,even i wish WI to win but it does not mean i should not not care or should care.BTW some posters are not happy with khalil picking wickets with 130kph which is wrong,if he is swinging it both ways then 135kph is more than enough.
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Nope, we are not happy with Khalil bowling with fear and reducing his normal speed, you don't see me talking about Bhuvi here as his capacity itself is 130-140 not Kahlil who was bowling 145 KPH in Asia cup and even faster in domestics.
 
Easy win for India.

Rohit further enhancing his reputation and Rayudu seems to be making no. 4 his own spot.

Dhoni will continue to stay at 5 and 6 is basically a fight between Jadhav and Pant but Jadhav gives that extra option with bowl as well. This is what India plans are right now.

Karthik, Rahul, Pandey wont feature in XI most likely.

Top3 as it is
Rayudu
Dhoni(wkt)
Jadhav/Pant
Pandya
Jadeja
Kuldeep
Shami
Bumrah
 
Reddy said:
Nope, we are not happy with Khalil bowling with fear and reducing his normal speed, you don't see me talking about Bhuvi here as his capacity itself is 130-140 not Kahlil who was bowling 145 KPH in Asia cup and even faster in domestics.
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It seems you want super phaast Umesh back in the team. :inti
 
Nikhil_cric said:
1 or 2 changes are sufficient to make this team quite a bit better. Also if you are suggesting that I don't complain about it what is the point of visiting a cricket forum :srini
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Well some of our joshilay local experts always come up with this kind of logic that ex players and team management knows better than us so I was just trying to use their logic and stop you from complaining. :inti
 
Rayudu played a responsible knock and built a match winning partnership with Rohit. I would stick with him for now. Rahul can warm the benches and play as an opener when the need arises. Rayudu is slow, but I would take his 70 to 80 runs at a SR of 80 over Rahul's explosive 20s and 30s.
 
some Indian fans don't deserve Virat, they deserve Umar Akmal type players...
 
MUMBAI, India – The WINDIES suffered a 224-run defeat by India in the 4th One Day International at the Brabourne Stadium in Mumbai. India posted 377/5 from their 50 overs, while the WINDIES were all out for 153 in 36.2 overs.

India won the toss for a fourth consecutive time and this time chose to take first strike on the intimate Brabourne Stadium pitch. Rohit Sharma and Shikhar Dhawan signaled their intentions from the first ball when Kemar Roach was dispatched to the boundary for four. The pair batted cautiously but explosively towards some fairly wayward bowling from the WINDIES. Just when they looked to be heading to a triple-figure opening partnership, Keemo Paul came into the attack and had Dhawan caught behind for 38.

Sharma was joined by Kohli, who was going after his 4thconsecutive century and the pair looking for another mammoth partnership between them. However, it was not to be as Roach had Kohli caught behind for 16, the first time in the ODI series he’s been dismissed on double figures. India 101/2 in 16.4overs.

Then came the partnership that bolstered India’s innings. Ambati Rayudu joined Sharma and the pair added 211 runs together. The partnership saw both men reach centuries. Sharma was the first to triple figures as he punished the WINDIES bowlers, he struck 20-fours and 4-sixes on his way to 162, before Ashley Nurse had him caught by Chandrapaul Hemraj. Rayudu carried on and on 100 even, going for a single, he was brilliantly runout by Fabian Allen of his own bowling.

MS. Dhoni made 23 before Roach scalped his wicket. Kedar Jadhav and Ravindra Jadeja remained not out on 16 and 7 respectively. India 377/5 from their 50 overs. Bowling for the WINDIES Roach had the best figures of 2/74, followed by Ashley Nurse and Keemo Paul with 1 wicket each.

The WINDIES innings never got off to the start it needed. Chandrapaul Hemraj took his chances early, going after the Indian bowlers. But after hitting 1-six and 1-four, going for another big hit, was caught by Rayudu off Bhuvneshwar Kumar for 14. Run-machine Shai Hope joined Powell, but after facing two deliveries, inexplicably went charging for a single and was runout well short of his ground for 0. Then things got worse, as Kieran Powell who never looked comfortable at the crease was also runout for 4. The WINDIES 20/3 in 5.2 overs.

Marlon Samuels and Shimron Hetmyer in the middle had the weight of rebuilding the WINDIES innings and it looked like they will do just that. Hetmyer was the aggressor of the pair, striking 2-fours on his way to 13 before Khaleel Ahmed trapped him LBW. Rovman Powell lasted for 9-balls scoring 1 run before he was bowled by Khaleel. Nine runs later Khaleel had Samuels caught for 18 to pick up his third wicket. WINDIES 56/6 13.4overs.

Jason Holder and Fabian Allen then tried to desperately rebuild the chase, adding 21 runs together before Allen was caught off Kuldeep Yadav for 10. 3rd ODI Man of the Match Ashley Nurse then joined Holder to try and salvage the WINDIES INNINGS. They added 24 runs together, but Nurse was not his explosive self, suffering from a sore shoulder sustained during his bowling spell, Kuldeep had him caught by Sharma for 8. Keemo Paul struck a rapid 19, which included 2-sixes and 1-four before Jadeja had him stumped by Dhoni. Kemar Roach, a big-hitter at the end, joined Holder with the hopes of knocking off as many runs as possible. He took singles to get Holder on strike. The Skipper brought up another well-fought half century from 70 balls. Kuldeep Yadav wrapped up the match for India when he bowled Roach for 6.

The WINDIES all out for 153 in 36.2 overs. Jason Holder finished on 54 not out, next best was Keemo Paul with 19. Bowling for India Khaleel Ahmed had figures of 3/13, while Kuldeep Yadav had 3/42. India now take a 2-1 series lead, with the fifth and final ODI to be played on November 1st in Trivanthapuram.
 
Itachi said:
This series has done more harm to team India with no benefits.
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No, it has done good for us. A team with only 2 proper batters ran us close @ home which shows on good batting tracks you can't go with only 5 batters (Dhoni is 1 of those :facepalm:)

Lower order needs some hitters like Jaddu/ Pandya, we could have easily won the last match @ Pune if Jadhav/ Jadeja were playing with Kohli but once we were 5 down it was all over. Felt so weird as this is not a test match to have only specialists in the team.

Dhoni continues to lose respect as he keeps playing as a specialist keeper and non existent batting.
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
No, it has done good for us. A team with only 2 proper batters ran us close @ home which shows on good batting tracks you can't go with only 5 batters (Dhoni is 1 of those :facepalm:)

Lower order needs some hitters like Jaddu/ Pandya, we could have easily won the last match @ Pune if Jadhav/ Jadeja were playing with Kohli but once we were 5 down it was all over. Felt so weird as this is not a test match to have only specialists in the team.

Dhoni continues to lose respect as he keeps playing as a specialist keeper and non existent batting.
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This. This series has exposed our limitations in a way Asia Cup did not.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This. This series has exposed our limitations in a way Asia Cup did not.
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The Asia Cup had exposed our limitations
Against HK we could get only 48 runs in the final 10 overs

We tied with AFG where we were cruising after our openers in that match provided us a great start

We struggled in the final against BD where the openers failed to get a big score(Rohit 48,Dhawan 15)

Maybe because we were "unbeaten" in that tournament that's why we didn't realise it

Our batting line up is overdependent on top3 and it has been a case for a long time
Captain is also to be blamed for not giving long run to any of the new comers and persisting with Dhoni who is past his prime
 
Se Indian fans will only be happy if we lose every match from hereon till June - because wins do harm and loses are good for the team.

And after losing 15 matches in a row, said fans believe that this Indian team will be in the perfect position to lift the WC.

:salute
 
the_outsider said:
Se Indian fans will only be happy if we lose every match from hereon till June - because wins do harm and loses are good for the team.

And after losing 15 matches in a row, said fans believe that this Indian team will be in the perfect position to lift the WC.

:salute
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That is not at all what anyone is saying. My only point is that the top 3 and the bowlers have largely shielded the weak middle order from being exposed .
 
Nikhil_cric said:
That is not at all what anyone is saying. My only point is that the top 3 and the bowlers have largely shielded the weak middle order from being exposed .
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Every single team is dependent on their top 3 batsmen and their best 3 bowlers to win matches. This is not something exclusive to India.

Plus the middle order is looking fine now. Rayudu has stepped up. Jhadav has always delivered and even Dhoni is looking better now. He's hitting the ball well. Got his power hitting back. And once Hardik comes back, I don't see any problem with the batting.

In the last 2 years, India's win % in ODIs has been almost 71%. England's has been a shade over 72%. Currently, SA is a distant 3rd with only a 60% win rate. Peak Aussie team (2003-07) had a win % of 74-77%.

What more does anyone want? That India will win 100% matches?
 
the_outsider said:
Se Indian fans will only be happy if we lose every match from hereon till June - because wins do harm and loses are good for the team.

And after losing 15 matches in a row, said fans believe that this Indian team will be in the perfect position to lift the WC.

:salute
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Nope many Indian fans are not blind. They know such wins against a WI C team with us playing at full strength means ZILCH including all those records being broken. A younger team beating this WI side would have helped us move forward. Currently the way things are going, we are closer to the 2007 scenario when we thrashed SL and Eng at home before the WC and crashed out in the first round while still being in the bubble (incidentally knocked out by SL) whereas SL went onto reach the finals.
 
the_outsider said:
Every single team is dependent on their top 3 batsmen and their best 3 bowlers to win matches. This is not something exclusive to India.

Plus the middle order is looking fine now. Rayudu has stepped up. Jhadav has always delivered and even Dhoni is looking better now. He's hitting the ball well. Got his power hitting back. And once Hardik comes back, I don't see any problem with the batting.

In the last 2 years, India's win % in ODIs has been almost 71%. England's has been a shade over 72%. Currently, SA is a distant 3rd with only a 60% win rate. Peak Aussie team (2003-07) had a win % of 74-77%.

What more does anyone want? That India will win 100% matches?
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LOL, any facts to back that up?

Run some analysis, you will be shocked at the number top 3 of India vs top 3 of other teams and Middle order (4-7) of India vs Others since last WC.
 
cricketindiafan said:
LOL, any facts to back that up?

Run some analysis, you will be shocked at the number top 3 of India vs top 3 of other teams and Middle order (4-7) of India vs Others since last WC.
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Look at where Australia are in the absence of their no 1 and no 3 batsmen. Look at the 5th odi between SL and Eng where England's top 4 failed and that led to a 219 runs defeat.

It doesn't take a genius to figure this out that in today's era, the top 4 in any batting line up are the most important batsmen in the team. When they fail collectively, most teams lose.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Nope many Indian fans are not blind. They know such wins against a WI C team with us playing at full strength means ZILCH including all those records being broken. A younger team beating this WI side would have helped us move forward. Currently the way things are going, we are closer to the 2007 scenario when we thrashed SL and Eng at home before the WC and crashed out in the first round while still being in the bubble (incidentally knocked out by SL) whereas SL went onto reach the finals.
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Your logic: we will play with Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli Rayadu, Dhoni in the WC but we should use these upcoming ODIs to play Shaw, Gill, Mayank, etc.

Brilliant logic :salute


Young teams are built right AFTER a world cup ends. Not 7 months before it.
 
the_outsider said:
Your logic: we will play with Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli Rayadu, Dhoni in the WC but we should use these upcoming ODIs to play Shaw, Gill, Mayank, etc.

Brilliant logic :salute


Young teams are built right AFTER a world cup ends. Not 7 months before it.
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When we won the WC in 2011, 4 months before that there was a ODI series in India vs NZ. Gambhir was the captain, we had Vijay as opener, Rohit and Saurabh Tiwary played some matches, Ashwin/Jadeja as spinner, Praveen Kumar played a couple of matches as pacer and Saha/Parthiv as keeper.

NZ were at full strength. With Sachin, Sehwag, Dhoni, Harbhajan resting, we won 5-0. All that talk of playing the best 11 7 months before WC is pure **.
 
cricketindiafan said:
When we won the WC in 2011, 4 months before that there was a ODI series in India vs NZ. Gambhir was the captain, we had Vijay as opener, Rohit and Saurabh Tiwary played some matches, Ashwin/Jadeja as spinner, Praveen Kumar played a couple of matches as pacer and Saha/Parthiv as keeper.

NZ were at full strength. With Sachin, Sehwag, Dhoni, Harbhajan resting, we won 5-0. All that talk of playing the best 11 7 months before WC is pure **.
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Praveen Kumar was a sure shot for the WC. Only reason he wasn't in the squad was because he got injured and that's why Sreesanth came in.

And Saha/Parthiv were being tested to find a backup keeper for the squad. Same is being done with Pant. Why do you think Dhoni has been dropped from T20s? So that Isn't can play every T20 and not just as a batsman but as a keeper - which is what you want from a backup keeper.

And plenty of players have been tested. How many players have been rotated/tested recently?

KL Rahul, Rahane, Iyer, DK, Pandey, Pant, Khaleel, Kaul, Chahar, Thakur, Sundar.

11 players. Basically an entire new XI.

WC squad is of only 15 members. We have had 25+ different people who have played ODIs in the last 12-18 months. What exactly do you think we will achieve by testing 40 players for a 15 member squad?
 
[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION] ur all point is correct,but dhoni is looking better now???
 
the_outsider said:
Praveen Kumar was a sure shot for the WC. Only reason he wasn't in the squad was because he got injured and that's why Sreesanth came in.

And Saha/Parthiv were being tested to find a backup keeper for the squad. Same is being done with Pant. Why do you think Dhoni has been dropped from T20s? So that Isn't can play every T20 and not just as a batsman but as a keeper - which is what you want from a backup keeper.

And plenty of players have been tested. How many players have been rotated/tested recently?

KL Rahul, Rahane, Iyer, DK, Pandey, Pant, Khaleel, Kaul, Chahar, Thakur, Sundar.

11 players. Basically an entire new XI.

WC squad is of only 15 members. We have had 25+ different people who have played ODIs in the last 12-18 months. What exactly do you think we will achieve by testing 40 players for a 15 member squad?
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Giving 2-3 ODIs to players and then dropping them randomly isn't testing out someone.

This team management has its favorites and doesn't want that applecart disturbed. Better to admit that. Also, giving chances to TTFs like Rahane and DK and Trundlers like Kaul and Chahar (ahead of better pacers like Siraj, Saini and Rajpoot) doesn't count. Which is where their incompetence and favoritism gets exposed.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Giving 2-3 ODIs to players and then dropping them randomly isn't testing out someone.

This team management has its favorites and doesn't want that applecart disturbed. Better to admit that. Also, giving chances to TTFs like Rahane and DK and Trundlers like Kaul and Chahar (ahead of better pacers like Siraj, Saini and Rajpoot) doesn't count. Which is where their incompetence and favoritism gets exposed.
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Obviously players won't get many chances.

Look at how many empty slots there is when it comes to the WC squad.

Total squad of 15 means you need 4 backups. 2 batsmen, a spinner and a pacer.

So basically 6-7 batsmen are auditioning for 2 spots, and 4-5 pacers have been auditioning for 1 spot.

As far, your point of Siraj and Saini are concerned. First of all, Siraj is not a very good LOI bowler. He is a red ball bowler. He bowls the quintessential test length and relies on reverse swing. Secondly, Siraj's rise has only been in the last 3 months. It's not like he has been performing for 2 seasons and has been ignored. Same case with Saini. In fact, Siraj at least got to play for India - even if it was T20s.

You can call Rayadu a TTF as much as you want but the fact of the matter is that he has delivered more often than not. And he has done better than any of the "youngsters".

There is a very ugly mindset among desis about discriminating against players based on their age. Who the hell cares if Radayu is 33? If he's is doing the job better than a 26 year-old KL Rahul, then he deserves his place on merit.

The time to groom youngsters is after a WC cycle ends. Not 7 months before a WC. The one thing you can genuinely blame the team management for is their lack of foresight in grooming backup pacers. They left that for the last minute which should not have been the case. Then again, Bumrah and Hardik has only been playing since 2016 and Kulcha only since 2017. If these players hadn't played the 30-40 games they have so far, they wouldn't be anywhere near as capable. So the scope of testing backups was limited. So it was a real catch-22 situation for the team management & selectors.

You should be able to view all of these factors and then come to a judgement. It's very easy to throw accusations like favoritism, qouta, etc. Because doing that requires neither any work nor any intelligence.
 
the_outsider said:
Look at where Australia are in the absence of their no 1 and no 3 batsmen. Look at the 5th odi between SL and Eng where England's top 4 failed and that led to a 219 runs defeat.

It doesn't take a genius to figure this out that in today's era, the top 4 in any batting line up are the most important batsmen in the team. When they fail collectively, most teams lose.
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stats master India has the lowest run rate in the slog overs among all FMs and contribution from 4-7 is the lowest in terms of %

You love to back your opinion with stats and try to manipulate others with the numbers but this time you didn't do so because deep inside u know that we are not getting enough from our middle order but then u are on some kind of a mission to defend everything done by the team management


In the other post u posted stats of win % over the past 2 years
There u compared the stats of 2 years of current Indian team with stats of 4 years of mighty Aussie team,another manipulation of stats by u


And we Indian fans want our team to be the best in the world
Why should we be with no.2 spot?
We have better top3 than Eng and also better bowling than them yet we are ranked below
Why?
It's very clear that we are not getting much from our middle order
The only difference between us & them in the middle order

u mentioned that Dhoni is looking better now?
I really want to know what special did he do now?
He even wasted our review in the 4th over itself
 
the_outsider said:
Obviously players won't get many chances.

Look at how many empty slots there is when it comes to the WC squad.

Total squad of 15 means you need 4 backups. 2 batsmen, a spinner and a pacer.

So basically 6-7 batsmen are auditioning for 2 spots, and 4-5 pacers have been auditioning for 1 spot.

As far, your point of Siraj and Saini are concerned. First of all, Siraj is not a very good LOI bowler. He is a red ball bowler. He bowls the quintessential test length and relies on reverse swing. Secondly, Siraj's rise has only been in the last 3 months. It's not like he has been performing for 2 seasons and has been ignored. Same case with Saini. In fact, Siraj at least got to play for India - even if it was T20s.

You can call Rayadu a TTF as much as you want but the fact of the matter is that he has delivered more often than not. And he has done better than any of the "youngsters".

There is a very ugly mindset among desis about discriminating against players based on their age. Who the hell cares if Radayu is 33? If he's is doing the job better than a 26 year-old KL Rahul, then he deserves his place on merit.

The time to groom youngsters is after a WC cycle ends. Not 7 months before a WC. The one thing you can genuinely blame the team management for is their lack of foresight in grooming backup pacers. They left that for the last minute which should not have been the case. Then again, Bumrah and Hardik has only been playing since 2016 and Kulcha only since 2017. If these players hadn't played the 30-40 games they have so far, they wouldn't be anywhere near as capable. So the scope of testing backups was limited. So it was a real catch-22 situation for the team management & selectors.

You should be able to view all of these factors and then come to a judgement. It's very easy to throw accusations like favoritism, qouta, etc. Because doing that requires neither any work nor any intelligence.
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LOL sorry for wasting my time with you. Carry on being the spokesperson of this pathetic team management and their weird choices.
 
cricketindiafan said:
LOL sorry for wasting my time with you. Carry on being the spokesperson of this pathetic team management and their weird choices.
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If you're saying that the only reason you come here is to complaint and vent your frustrations then fair enough.

Who am I to judge.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
stats master India has the lowest run rate in the slog overs among all FMs and contribution from 4-7 is the lowest in terms of %

You love to back your opinion with stats and try to manipulate others with the numbers but this time you didn't do so because deep inside u know that we are not getting enough from our middle order but then u are on some kind of a mission to defend everything done by the team management


In the other post u posted stats of win % over the past 2 years
There u compared the stats of 2 years of current Indian team with stats of 4 years of mighty Aussie team,another manipulation of stats by u


And we Indian fans want our team to be the best in the world
Why should we be with no.2 spot?
We have better top3 than Eng and also better bowling than them yet we are ranked below
Why?
It's very clear that we are not getting much from our middle order
The only difference between us & them in the middle order

u mentioned that Dhoni is looking better now?
I really want to know what special did he do now?
He even wasted our review in the 4th over itself
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I never said our middle order hasn't been a problem. I said it's starting to look better. Rayadu is looking solid and I rate Kedar. You might not.

Take any 2 year period in that phase of the Aussie team and the win % was at peak 76.6%.

And lastly, yes Dhoni the batsman has looked better in this series than he has in the last 4 months. If you can't see that then I can't make you see it.
 
WengerOut said:
Apparently Dhoni, averaging 16 against this WI team, has improved.
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You have to look beyond numbers and see how the person is looking on the field. He is hitting the ball well. Any player, even the best ones can get out in the first 10 balls of an innings. Every player will tell you that.

People will say that Dhawan is looking out of form because he isn't scoring. But that's not the case. Sometimes a batsman can be batting well but he still gets out.

For lower order batsmen, who usually don't get enough balls to get set or come in when the team is already 100/4 and behind the game - you have to look at how he is batting rather than just the numbers.

Nobody will be successful every time. The other team isn't just going to lie down and take a loss. They are there to win too.

There is a mindset common among fans that is "no runs/wickets = bad/out of form player". Which is incorrect.
 
the_outsider said:
You have to look beyond numbers and see how the person is looking on the field. He is hitting the ball well. Any player, even the best ones can get out in the first 10 balls of an innings. Every player will tell you that.

People will say that Dhawan is looking out of form because he isn't scoring. But that's not the case. Sometimes a batsman can be batting well but he still gets out.

For lower order batsmen, who usually don't get enough balls to get set or come in when the team is already 100/4 and behind the game - you have to look at how he is batting rather than just the numbers.

Nobody will be successful every time. The other team isn't just going to lie down and take a loss. They are there to win too.

There is a mindset common among fans that is "no runs/wickets = bad/out of form player". Which is incorrect.
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When a batsman has been scoring runs freely before and is having an off series this time, i can agree. But he is having a very poor season. And no, despite scoring 23 runs yesterday, he has not looked good. A drop catch as well ( just to show his hitting ability these days). I am no Cricinfo expert. I do watch games. Looks like you forgot his dismissal at Pune. What was that!!
 
WengerOut said:
When a batsman has been scoring runs freely before and is having an off series this time, i can agree. But he is having a very poor season. And no, despite scoring 23 runs yesterday, he has not looked good. A drop catch as well ( just to show his hitting ability these days). I am no Cricinfo expert. I do watch games. Looks like you forgot his dismissal at Pune. What was that!!
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Yes. He has been poor in the last 10 odd months. That's why I said he is looking better now.

Even in the IPL where he scored heavily, he looked susceptible against spin. But since the Super 4 stage of the Asia Cup, he has looked better against spin.

Earlier he was struggling to rotate the strike. That hasn't troubled him this series. And he is hitting down the ground and for Dhoni that's a good sign that he is feeling good with the bat.

As far as his dismissal in Pune is concerned there is nothing to say about it. Any batsman get out in the first 10-12 balls of his innings. It happens to everyone. That kind of dismissal has little to do with form. As you can see, the same thing happened to Rohit Sharma in Pune and to Kohli at the CCA. This is just a part of cricket.
 
the_outsider said:
Yes. He has been poor in the last 10 odd months. That's why I said he is looking better now.

Even in the IPL where he scored heavily, he looked susceptible against spin. But since the Super 4 stage of the Asia Cup, he has looked better against spin.

Earlier he was struggling to rotate the strike. That hasn't troubled him this series. And he is hitting down the ground and for Dhoni that's a good sign that he is feeling good with the bat.

As far as his dismissal in Pune is concerned there is nothing to say about it. Any batsman get out in the first 10-12 balls of his innings. It happens to everyone. That kind of dismissal has little to do with form. As you can see, the same thing happened to Rohit Sharma in Pune and to Kohli at the CCA. This is just a part of cricket.
Click to expand...

For him, it is a norm not exception these days. He was not being extraordinary before that dismissal. After 3 matches in the series, if he is averaging 16, when he is having a hard time for couple of years now, you have got a clue.
 
WengerOut said:
For him, it is a norm not exception these days. He was not being extraordinary before that dismissal. After 3 matches in the series, if he is averaging 16, when he is having a hard time for couple of years now, you have got a clue.
Click to expand...

That is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it. But I am sticking to what I am seeing on the field and my understanding of it all in the big picture.

Obviously I don't think that's Dhoni is back and everything is back to normal. But the signs are looking good and that is why I'm expecting things to improve more and more I'm the next 3 series.
 
the_outsider said:
That is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it. But I am sticking to what I am seeing on the field and my understanding of it all in the big picture.

Obviously I don't think that's Dhoni is back and everything is back to normal. But the signs are looking good and that is why I'm expecting things to improve more and more I'm the next 3 series.
Click to expand...

He is not prospering against WI and you are expecting him to prosper against better teams away. He has always been a SC bully during his hey days, and you are expecting that to change during the bad days. Can't hit pacers and can't milk spinners.
 
With rayudu also performing in a couple of matches, Dhoni is the weakest link in this time. Earlier atleast it was the trio of DK, rayudu and Dhoni who were a burden bit DK is out and rayudu , while still not convincing , has atleast scored against Windies. The worst ODI player in the current squad .
 
the_outsider said:
I never said our middle order hasn't been a problem. I said it's starting to look better. Rayadu is looking solid and I rate Kedar. You might not.

Take any 2 year period in that phase of the Aussie team and the win % was at peak 76.6%.

And lastly, yes Dhoni the batsman has looked better in this series than he has in the last 4 months. If you can't see that then I can't make you see it.
Click to expand...


2003 & 2004 Aus played 61 ,won 49 lost 10 NR 2
So 49 wins in 59 completed matches makes 83% http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...anval1=span;team=2;template=results;type=team

are u happy with team being 2nd in rankings with 5 points behind England?

Dhoni has scored just 50 runs in 3 innings,in 1 innings he sucked the momentum with 20(25) on a flat patta
In the 2nd he failed with a score of 7(11)
Only in the 3rd inning he contributed something even there he didn't look good and was struggling to strike the ball
So I can't undersrtand how u find him much better batsman now?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
With rayudu also performing in a couple of matches, Dhoni is the weakest link in this time. Earlier atleast it was the trio of DK, rayudu and Dhoni who were a burden bit DK is out and rayudu , while still not convincing , has atleast scored against Windies. The worst ODI player in the current squad .
Click to expand...

DK averaged 48 at SR 71 in Asia cup while Dhoni averaged 19 at SR 62. DK got booted out while Dhoni is still farming at the crease.
 
Dhoni should be given credit he deserve. His 23(15) recently was one of his best performance by far in recent times.
 
WengerOut said:
DK averaged 48 at SR 71 in Asia cup while Dhoni averaged 19 at SR 62. DK got booted out while Dhoni is still farming at the crease.
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It's shocking how everyone even in the media, except agarkar and maybe jadeja, are defending dhoni no matter what. They are basically suggesting that he won't play the world cup on account of performance but as an elder statesman in the team. It doesn't matter if he can't score at 50 strike rate against Afghanistan but he's gonna play in the world cup no matter what. Poor pant.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
What are you saying? He is improving (his bank balance) match after match. :inti
Click to expand...

Dhoni is the richest cricketer in India. If he quits today, with the brand value he has today, the various number of ventures he has invested in and the IPL he can carry on for the next 10 years without any financial setbacks.

The man has achieved everything anyone can in cricket. Every single trophy cricket has to offer. 10k runs. A WC win as a captain. Everything.

If Dhoni was after just money he would have quit before the WC and retired so as to play T20 leagues around the world. Just like AB de Villiers has.

If he still wants to play, that too under someone else's captaincy, that means he genuinely believes that he can still contribute for the team.

You may not believe it. But he does. And the team believes in him too. And that's all that matters. :inti
 
WengerOut said:
He should've got MOM.
Click to expand...

If we look at players who scored more than 20 runs, here is their SR in that particular match: -

Dhoni 153
Rohit 118
Rayudu 123

Clearly, Dhoni was robbed a MOM which he truly deserved.
 
the_outsider said:
Dhoni is the richest cricketer in India. If he quits today, with the brand value he has today, the various number of ventures he has invested in and the IPL he can carry on for the next 10 years without any financial setbacks.

The man has achieved everything anyone can in cricket. Every single trophy cricket has to offer. 10k runs. A WC win as a captain. Everything.

If Dhoni was after just money he would have quit before the WC and retired so as to play T20 leagues around the world. Just like AB de Villiers has.

If he still wants to play, that too under someone else's captaincy, that means he genuinely believes that he can still contribute for the team.

You may not believe it. But he does. And the team believes in him too. And that's all that matters. :inti
Click to expand...

Do you really think CSK Mafia is present in indian cricket? I have noticed one of our other local expert has brought this many times in the past few days. :inti
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Do you really think CSK Mafia is present in indian cricket? I have noticed one of our other local expert has brought this many times in the past few days. :inti
Click to expand...

No. There is no CSK mafia or RCB mafia or MI mafia.

But it is also a fact that if say Dhoni captained Mohit Sharma in the IPL so he will have more trust in him as compared to a bowler from KKR or DD. That is very natural because the captain is seeing the player from close quarters and will obviously develop a better interpersonal relationship with that player. And that is why there will be more trust in that player.

But I certainly don't think it's a "quota system" like a lot of people here think.
 
the_outsider said:
No. There is no CSK mafia or RCB mafia or MI mafia.

But it is also a fact that if say Dhoni captained Mohit Sharma in the IPL so he will have more trust in him as compared to a bowler from KKR or DD. That is very natural because the captain is seeing the player from close quarters and will obviously develop a better interpersonal relationship with that player. And that is why there will be more trust in that player.

But I certainly don't think it's a "quota system" like a lot of people here think.
Click to expand...

You are right. But some fans think Dhoni is too powerful and forcing team management to select his favorite players. If he was powerful he would not have resigned from the captaincy of LOI teams? :inti
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
You are right. But some fans think Dhoni is too powerful and forcing team management to select his favorite players. If he was powerful he would not have resigned from the captaincy of LOI teams? :inti
Click to expand...

If Dhoni was all powerful he wouldn't be out of the T20I side right now either.

I know Indian players nowadays have a lot more power than they did before but some posters genuinely think that's Kohli, Dhoni and Shastri have ultimate control over everything. Which is not the case. Kohli being captain and the megastar that he is has power, no doubt. But even that has its limitations.
 
Ab Fan said:
If we look at players who scored more than 20 runs, here is their SR in that particular match: -

Dhoni 153
Rohit 118
Rayudu 123

Clearly, Dhoni was robbed a MOM which he truly deserved.
Click to expand...

Add to that, his captaincy, he should've got MOS even though the series is not over.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
You are right. But some fans think Dhoni is too powerful and forcing team management to select his favorite players. If he was powerful he would not have resigned from the captaincy of LOI teams? :inti
Click to expand...

I am confused. Everyone realise that his batting is rubbish these days and he is in the team for captaincy. Then why he resigned? If he was scoring runs, but the team is not going anywhere, that would've made sense.
 
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