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India finally admits it lost fighter jets in clash with Pakistan – but refuses to say how many

I understand Urdu completely fine. However not understanding your logic in English.

So he is saying India ki badqismati ki unhone 2 air bases pe hamla kiya. If that was India's Badqismati, why did he collaborated with Prince Faisal and ask him to speak with S.Jaishankar and inform if if they stop, we (Pakistanis) will stop as well.

If that was India's bad qismati, Pakistan should have gone on full attack mode on India rather than waving white flag?

Mate, Ishaq Dar check mated you guys. If I were you, I would play 'Dont take him seriously' card and taken easy pass like you all did when your defence minister got humiliated in Sky news with Yalda Hakim. More you try to justify it, more it gets embarrassing.

:yk
..
1. According to Dar, Prince called him after Indian attack, not vice versa
2. He offered to mediate. Any offers to mediate were always welcomes by Pakistan. This is not a sign we were losing because our response was in progress at the time.

By the way now that I have answered your questions: can you answer some of mine and watch this full video of the same interview that you are using a clipped version of: watch from 15 onwards and tell me why he says that after Pakistan responded, Rubio called him and asked him to stop and do ceasefire:
 
Pakistan did not want to aggravate the situation. We did not want to aggravate it even during the idiotic Balakot misadventure and rescued Indian Pilot from getting beaten to death by the Pakistani civilians, gave him first-aid, tea and then returned him soon as practically possible so peace will ultimately reign.

Indian leaders are war mongerers because war helps them win elections. That's the sad truth of it.
No election in India now...next general election is in 2029 which Modi will cake walk again if he runs.

Try harder

:yk3
 
Pakistan did not want to aggravate the situation. We did not want to aggravate it even during the idiotic Balakot misadventure and rescued Indian Pilot from getting beaten to death by the Pakistani civilians, gave him first-aid, tea and then returned him soon as practically possible so peace will ultimately reign.

Indian leaders are war mongerers because war helps them win elections. That's the sad truth of it.

Yes. Pakistan showed restraint in both 2019 and 2025. Noble quality.

Anyway, I think RSS needs to suffer more military setbacks before they mellow down.

During WW2, Nazis and Japanese were behaving like this. Allied forces eventually had to carpet bomb Germany and USA had to nuke Japan. After WW2, both Germany and Japan mellowed down big time.
 
Those children getting killed were fake news. Pak tried to copy Palestine and tried to play emotional card by bringing children. All of those were debunked multiple times here. India indeed attacked mosque but not because they had any intention to attack any religious sites but it was terrorist hideouts as per intel. Op Sindoor took down close to 100 terrorists including 14 close associates of Masood Azhar. Even Americans like Daniel Pearl's parents were celebrating it. This is what real victory looks like. Not giving fake counts of planes going down or pilots getting captured and celebrating on it.
where are the neutral reports of 100 terrorists being killed? or are we now blindly believing all the claims Indian leadership is making?
 
He offered to mediate. Any offers to mediate were always welcomes by Pakistan. This is not a sign we were losing because our response was in progress at the time.
I have a serious problem with this statement. And you know how I don't leave until I am convinced.

Ishaq Dar here saying, India ki Badqismati ki unhone hamare 2 air bases pe attack kar diya. This means, it is India's bad luck that they attacked us overnight. We are fine till here, right? My translation and all okay?

Now, the natural reaction will be - ab India ki khair nehi and we will taught them a lesson. Agree?

However, as soon as prince Faisal asked to mediate, he agreed saying that If India stops...we will stop too.

What kind of retribution or revenge is that? If this is not waving white flag, what is?

What happened to operation Bunyan Marsoos? I thought that gimmick was launched to teach India a lesson na?

From the above, any one can easily conclude that after India attacked the two air bases, Pakistan got scared and accepted the ceasefire.

Not sure how much more clear can I be.

Whether we agree or not, is a different story.
 
I have a serious problem with this statement. And you know how I don't leave until I am convinced.

Ishaq Dar here saying, India ki Badqismati ki unhone hamare 2 air bases pe attack kar diya. This means, it is India's bad luck that they attacked us overnight. We are fine till here, right? My translation and all okay?

Now, the natural reaction will be - ab India ki khair nehi and we will taught them a lesson. Agree?

However, as soon as prince Faisal asked to mediate, he agreed saying that If India stops...we will stop too.

What kind of retribution or revenge is that? If this is not waving white flag, what is?

What happened to operation Bunyan Marsoos? I thought that gimmick was launched to teach India a lesson na?

From the above, any one can easily conclude that after India attacked the two air bases, Pakistan got scared and accepted the ceasefire.

Not sure how much more clear can I be.

Whether we agree or not, is a different story.
It’s Pakistani sarcasm. It’s your badluck if you mess with the bull because you are sure to get the horns.
Does that help? I tried to make it as much idiot proof as I could. Now run along and watch the full video from minute 15 onwards.
 
Bihar election? :rp

What has that got to do with national politics and Indian army? 🤡
what does bombing a few masjids have to do with claims of killing terrorists and declaring yourselves winners? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
These sanghis are losing it. They are suffering setbacks after setbacks in recent times. They are close to tears and insanity I guess. :inti
We all saw who lost :rabada2

Btw, who are you again? You are neither Pakistani or Indian right?

You have no bone in this war.
 
France and China because both Pak and India are idiotic enough to fire at each other using foreign weapons.

There are no winners in war. Only losers.


Indian military is still predominantly non-french weapons. most missiles that were fired into Pakistan were from the Russian Sukhoi jets and using Indian made Brahmos missile and other Israeli, Russian missiles.

In context of the Indian misadventure, at best it was a stalemate but India/Modi was the loser. He thought he could roll in and roll over Pakistan and win the Bihar elections with all pomp and show but severally underestimated the reaction from Pakistan. Then he had to make peace as well once the going got tough. You don't do that when you have the upper hand. Now internally he faces a lot of tough questions.

To me for someone who started the whole thing and having to endure all these challenges - I would say that's a loss.

And were is the evidence that the going got tough ? The lost jets or something else ?
 
It is shocking that the details have not been shared till now !

what details are you looking for ?

It’s Pakistani sarcasm. It’s your badluck if you mess with the bull because you are sure to get the horns.
Does that help? I tried to make it as much idiot proof as I could. Now run along and watch the full video from minute 15 onwards.
And where is the evidence as to how all that Pakistani bravado turned out in reality ?
 
@uppercut - there is AS SUCH no evidence of anybody here winning, if there was you will see the neutral analysts rendering judgments profusely but that's not the case is it? I think we already established that much.

For us and you keyboard warriors, its all circumstantial stuff and how you interpret it. For instance, we find the evidence from the get go very strong that we caused damage to the Indian missile defense battery system and the aircraft. Indians did not. eventually the truth is coming to light regarding that. Anyhow, I maintain that at best militarily it was probably a stalemate but its what happens afterwards that will be telling who won.

If Pakistan struggles to rebuild its military strength after the "telling blows" from India -- once again how do you quantify that result will also be up to individual views - you can claim victory. So there is no easy way to prove it, is there? Also, for Indians will a true victory be the end of WHATEVER outfits they claim here they destroyed? Will this result in no further militancy in Kashmir? Who knows? is that even a proper yardstick? Personally, I don't believe Modi had this in mind. This was all a stunt to get votes in Bihar. So maybe he is thinking in terms of a victory in Bihar -- none of my business.

For me, I am just going to state that the PAF once again asserted its air superiority over IAF, even inspite of the fact Modi kept whining after his Balakot misadventures that if they had Rafales, the result would have been different. Well this time they had the Rafales and the damage seems to be worse. Also this was the first time in record military combat a Rafale was downed.

For us that's a win - you can take your crumbs of comfort from craters in runways, if that makes you feel better - or damage and destruction of Masjids, which you guys do in your country every day, it seems.
 
@Stewie

You're trying to debate with individuals who come out with things like this:-

"Pak tried to copy Palestine and tried to play emotional card by bringing children"
Pakistan is not Palestine, neither is Iran. Israel is not US and India is not Israel.

I think all these Indian myths should be debunked by now. Their limited understanding of Urdu (or perhaps intentional misrepresentation of facts) is to be blamed for this idiotic thought that Ishaq Dar admitted US intervention.

Umreeka saved India behind from getting more litrol. EOD
 
Go ahead show me where I said anything like that.

In this instance I quoted Rajdeep.

I'm not going to dig out your quotes because I already told you to stop wasting your time or anyone else's and move on... show some self respect.

India didn't win
Pakistan didn't win

There. Happy? Or shall I go further and say that India won, they killed 100 terrorists, destroyed their head quarters which were disguised as mosques and did so with supreme precision... sindoor reigns supreme
 
@uppercut - there is AS SUCH no evidence of anybody here winning, if there was you will see the neutral analysts rendering judgments profusely but that's not the case is it? I think we already established that much.

For us and you keyboard warriors, its all circumstantial stuff and how you interpret it. For instance, we find the evidence from the get go very strong that we caused damage to the Indian missile defense battery system and the aircraft. Indians did not. eventually the truth is coming to light regarding that. Anyhow, I maintain that at best militarily it was probably a stalemate but its what happens afterwards that will be telling who won.

If Pakistan struggles to rebuild its military strength after the "telling blows" from India -- once again how do you quantify that result will also be up to individual views - you can claim victory. So there is no easy way to prove it, is there? Also, for Indians will a true victory be the end of WHATEVER outfits they claim here they destroyed? Will this result in no further militancy in Kashmir? Who knows? is that even a proper yardstick? Personally, I don't believe Modi had this in mind. This was all a stunt to get votes in Bihar. So maybe he is thinking in terms of a victory in Bihar -- none of my business.

For me, I am just going to state that the PAF once again asserted its air superiority over IAF, even inspite of the fact Modi kept whining after his Balakot misadventures that if they had Rafales, the result would have been different. Well this time they had the Rafales and the damage seems to be worse. Also this was the first time in record military combat a Rafale was downed.

For us that's a win - you can take your crumbs of comfort from craters in runways, if that makes you feel better - or damage and destruction of Masjids, which you guys do in your country every day, it seems.

Here is the extensive evidence that documents the heavy damage inflicted on Pakistan. Most of it is from neutral sources and few from Pakistani sources ( will respond to the rest of your post later ). However the most important evidence is in the form of IWT being still suspended and Pakistan sending multiple requests to not stop water.


  1. https://smallwarsjournal.com/2025/0...se-reform-must-match-the-speed-of-modern-war/ --> John Spencer a top US Militrary professional says India’s military action was a overwhelming success
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8Xya9brEo --> Michael Rubin former Pentagon official says Pak ran away scared !!
  3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrflQPLH_E --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the War ( and India bought receipts to back their win )
  4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-PQQTXrZyU --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the Brahmos Problem that Pak faces
  5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDDsacCV-oM --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak nukes now un-deployable
  6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naSumkK_vZ4 --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak without nukes
  7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abXsMSqeaIA --> Muridke destruction
  8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdqPYLCX7GE --> Bahawalpur destruction
  9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chffiYa1bpc --> Analysis by a French defense expert ( video has high quality images / videos for evidence )
  10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWaa0KcQkFc --> List of Terror Camps Destroyed with evidence(list is long)
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25frctJ7ow --> Indonesian and Thai military analysis ( has useful images )
  12. https://x.com/Duorope/status/1939652850461876282 --> Pak official explaining how every district in Kashmir was hit
 
In this instance I quoted Rajdeep.

I'm not going to dig out your quotes because I already told you to stop wasting your time or anyone else's and move on... show some self respect.

India didn't win
Pakistan didn't win

There. Happy? Or shall I go further and say that India won, they killed 100 terrorists, destroyed their head quarters which were disguised as mosques and did so with supreme precision... sindoor reigns supreme

you don't want Indians to respond in threads involving India ?
 
@uppercut - there is AS SUCH no evidence of anybody here winning, if there was you will see the neutral analysts rendering judgments profusely but that's not the case is it? I think we already established that much.

For us and you keyboard warriors, its all circumstantial stuff and how you interpret it. For instance, we find the evidence from the get go very strong that we caused damage to the Indian missile defense battery system and the aircraft. Indians did not. eventually the truth is coming to light regarding that. Anyhow, I maintain that at best militarily it was probably a stalemate but its what happens afterwards that will be telling who won.

See post# 262 for the extensive list of evidence that tells you why Pakistan settled for a ceasefire and reached out to its masters in the US to save face.

If Pakistan struggles to rebuild its military strength after the "telling blows" from India -- once again how do you quantify that result will also be up to individual views - you can claim victory. So there is no easy way to prove it, is there?

Yes see the evidence from neutral and Pakistani sources in Post# 262

Also, for Indians will a true victory be the end of WHATEVER outfits they claim here they destroyed? Will this result in no further militancy in Kashmir? Who knows? is that even a proper yardstick?

No it wont completely stop militancy in Indian Kashmir because of the nature of Islamic extremism. But the price tag that Pakistan as a nation will have to pay would be steep and it will keep increasing with every such terror incident. This is the only way to handle Islamic extremism .... trying to be rational and diplomatic with Pakistan is a very very bad idea.

Personally, I don't believe Modi had this in mind. This was all a stunt to get votes in Bihar. So maybe he is thinking in terms of a victory in Bihar -- none of my business.

Bihar elections are not untill October which is a long way way from May and therefore the war will have no impact on its outcome. Moreover Bihar is just one state and winning or losing that election has no impact on Modi's position in BJP.

For me, I am just going to state that the PAF once again asserted its air superiority over IAF, even inspite of the fact Modi kept whining after his Balakot misadventures that if they had Rafales, the result would have been different. Well this time they had the Rafales and the damage seems to be worse. Also this was the first time in record military combat a Rafale was downed.

For us that's a win - you can take your crumbs of comfort from craters in runways, if that makes you feel better - or damage and destruction of Masjids, which you guys do in your country every day, it seems.

The jets were shot down because of the operational constraints ( not going for SEAD or DEAD ) before attacking. Once those constraints were lifted the outcome was pretty clinical and one sided.
 
In this instance I quoted Rajdeep.

I'm not going to dig out your quotes because I already told you to stop wasting your time or anyone else's and move on... show some self respect.

India didn't win
Pakistan didn't win

There. Happy? Or shall I go further and say that India won, they killed 100 terrorists, destroyed their head quarters which were disguised as mosques and did so with supreme precision... sindoor reigns supreme

He thinks everyone has free time like he does. :qdkcheeky

He once asked me to go through hundreds of posts just to pinpoint something. I obviously didn't oblige. :inti
 
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Here is the extensive evidence that documents the heavy damage inflicted on Pakistan. Most of it is from neutral sources and few from Pakistani sources ( will respond to the rest of your post later ). However the most important evidence is in the form of IWT being still suspended and Pakistan sending multiple requests to not stop water.


  1. https://smallwarsjournal.com/2025/0...se-reform-must-match-the-speed-of-modern-war/ --> John Spencer a top US Militrary professional says India’s military action was a overwhelming success
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8Xya9brEo --> Michael Rubin former Pentagon official says Pak ran away scared !!
  3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrflQPLH_E --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the War ( and India bought receipts to back their win )
  4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-PQQTXrZyU --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the Brahmos Problem that Pak faces
  5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDDsacCV-oM --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak nukes now un-deployable
  6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naSumkK_vZ4 --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak without nukes
  7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abXsMSqeaIA --> Muridke destruction
  8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdqPYLCX7GE --> Bahawalpur destruction
  9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chffiYa1bpc --> Analysis by a French defense expert ( video has high quality images / videos for evidence )
  10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWaa0KcQkFc --> List of Terror Camps Destroyed with evidence(list is long)
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25frctJ7ow --> Indonesian and Thai military analysis ( has useful images )
  12. https://x.com/Duorope/status/1939652850461876282 --> Pak official explaining how every district in Kashmir was hit
All I had to do is click on one of the first links, a video associated with “former Pentagon Official Michael Rubin” and I discovered it to be an AI video created by an Indian account.

And therein lies the truth of Indian Propaganda and their inability or refusal to accept the reality and continued efforts to parrot their governments agenda.

What credibility do you have left if you have such a video at top of such a list? I’m sure it will contain items degraded to the level of juvenile grade idiotic propaganda if I bothered to continue.

Utterly shameless, unintelligent, childish and immature methods of debate.


Try something more intelligent and mature, I urge you all to read this:

 
All I had to do is click on one of the first links, a video associated with “former Pentagon Official Michael Rubin” and I discovered it to be an AI video created by an Indian account.

And therein lies the truth of Indian Propaganda and their inability or refusal to accept the reality and continued efforts to parrot their governments agenda.

What credibility do you have left if you have such a video at top of such a list? I’m sure it will contain items degraded to the level of juvenile grade idiotic propaganda if I bothered to continue.

Utterly shameless, unintelligent, childish and immature methods of debate.

Here is the original video from the interview with Michal Rubin from where the clip was made(I have linked the relevant timestamp):

https://youtu.be/HhjtGyFWhXY?feature=shared&t=227

So no it is not scam AI generated clip as you claim .... but let me know if you need Rubin's other interviews where he has commented on the war and is generally very scathing. Also go through other links I posted. Read the 1st link from John Spencer which is a short summary of the war ... here is the crucial tib-bit from that article:

India’s overwhelming success demonstrated something more enduring than airpower. It validated a national defense doctrine built around efficient domestic industrial strength. And most significantly, it delivered a clear message to its strategic rival. Pakistan— a Chinese Proxy by Armament alignment, doctrine—was completely outmatched. Its Chinese-made air defense systems could not stop, detect, or deter India’s precision strikes. In Sindoor, India didn’t just win. It demonstrated overwhelming military superiority against a Chinese-backed adversary.

Try something more intelligent and mature, I urge you all to read this:


I have read that report it is more than a month old now and there has been lot more evidence that has slowly come out ( see other videos and links that I have posted )


But even from that stimson article here are the important tidbits:

------

"Having perhaps struggled with the counter air environment on May 7, India’s achievement on May 9-10 is impressive by any measure. Details of the operation are still limited, but the Indian Air Force reportedly used a mix of decoy drones and anti-radiation drones, like Harop, alongside an array of longer-range standoff weapons, including cruise missiles such as BrahMos and SCALP, as well as solid-propellant rockets like the Israeli-origin Crystal Maze and Rampage missiles. Prior Indian drone attacks may have weakened Pakistani defenses as well, both through direct damage to components and through operational changes that Pakistani air defenders may have taken to reduce emissions and hence vulnerability to anti-radiation munitions.


India’s complex, innovative attack on May 10 appears largely to have overcome Pakistani air defenses. Whatever counterair surprises Pakistan had on May 7 did not appear to have had recurrent success on May 10. There are signs of BrahMos and SCALP debris in Pakistan, perhaps indicating some of the planned strikes did not succeed. The lack of visible damage in any satellite imagery released to date of Rafiqui base may also indicate that that strike did not go as intended. At the same time, an official Pakistan Air Force briefing on May 11—which contained inaccuracies in other claims it made—did specifically highlight success in defending Rafiqui base against Indian attacks

.......
.......

Despite Pakistan’s claims of “major damages” at the 15 airbases it targeted, there is no visual evidence—either from social media photos or commercial satellite imagery—currently available to indicate meaningful damage on Indian facilities

.......
.......

After the sharp escalation of hostilities on May 9-10, the twin combination of military pressure and international persuasion—perhaps combined with Pakistan’s sense that it had struck back and proven its point—was enough for Pakistan to opt to halt the crisis. Pakistani interest is evident in the persistent DGMO calls. Yet, if India truly felt that it had a decisive military upper hand, New Delhi could have opted to press forward. Perhaps it even deliberated doing so. Yet India, too, apparently calculated the political advantages of further strikes were not worth the continued persistence of a costly and dangerous crisis. Both sides accepted the US-facilitated ceasefire.
"
 
Here is the original video from the interview with Michal Rubin from where the clip was made(I have linked the relevant timestamp):

https://youtu.be/HhjtGyFWhXY?feature=shared&t=227

So no it is not scam AI generated clip as you claim .... but let me know if you need Rubin's other interviews where he has commented on the war and is generally very scathing. Also go through other links I posted. Read the 1st link from John Spencer which is a short summary of the war ... here is the crucial tib-bit from that article:

India’s overwhelming success demonstrated something more enduring than airpower. It validated a national defense doctrine built around efficient domestic industrial strength. And most significantly, it delivered a clear message to its strategic rival. Pakistan— a Chinese Proxy by Armament alignment, doctrine—was completely outmatched. Its Chinese-made air defense systems could not stop, detect, or deter India’s precision strikes. In Sindoor, India didn’t just win. It demonstrated overwhelming military superiority against a Chinese-backed adversary.



I have read that report it is more than a month old now and there has been lot more evidence that has slowly come out ( see other videos and links that I have posted )


But even from that stimson article here are the important tidbits:

------

"Having perhaps struggled with the counter air environment on May 7, India’s achievement on May 9-10 is impressive by any measure. Details of the operation are still limited, but the Indian Air Force reportedly used a mix of decoy drones and anti-radiation drones, like Harop, alongside an array of longer-range standoff weapons, including cruise missiles such as BrahMos and SCALP, as well as solid-propellant rockets like the Israeli-origin Crystal Maze and Rampage missiles. Prior Indian drone attacks may have weakened Pakistani defenses as well, both through direct damage to components and through operational changes that Pakistani air defenders may have taken to reduce emissions and hence vulnerability to anti-radiation munitions.


India’s complex, innovative attack on May 10 appears largely to have overcome Pakistani air defenses. Whatever counterair surprises Pakistan had on May 7 did not appear to have had recurrent success on May 10. There are signs of BrahMos and SCALP debris in Pakistan, perhaps indicating some of the planned strikes did not succeed. The lack of visible damage in any satellite imagery released to date of Rafiqui base may also indicate that that strike did not go as intended. At the same time, an official Pakistan Air Force briefing on May 11—which contained inaccuracies in other claims it made—did specifically highlight success in defending Rafiqui base against Indian attacks

.......
.......

Despite Pakistan’s claims of “major damages” at the 15 airbases it targeted, there is no visual evidence—either from social media photos or commercial satellite imagery—currently available to indicate meaningful damage on Indian facilities

.......
.......

After the sharp escalation of hostilities on May 9-10, the twin combination of military pressure and international persuasion—perhaps combined with Pakistan’s sense that it had struck back and proven its point—was enough for Pakistan to opt to halt the crisis. Pakistani interest is evident in the persistent DGMO calls. Yet, if India truly felt that it had a decisive military upper hand, New Delhi could have opted to press forward. Perhaps it even deliberated doing so. Yet India, too, apparently calculated the political advantages of further strikes were not worth the continued persistence of a costly and dangerous crisis. Both sides accepted the US-facilitated ceasefire.
"
Just because a former US official said it, in his capacity as a private citizen and not an official of US government, with zero access to on the field intel — does not make his statements undisputed truth. . And the evidence that is coming to light is all from the Indian side. If you take time to cook propaganda in your favor, you can make a donkey look like Brad Pitt thanks to AI and media lobbying. And India does have a lot of paid lobbyists in the US, including officials from previous admins. That’s how they make a living by saying what their paymasters want them to say. That’s just how the US political landscape works.
I have lived here most of my life so I know it very well.

I have yet to see any credible source recently claim India won the conflict or achieved the goals India set out to achieve because most of the neutral world is still aghast and astonished at the ineptitude of IAF performance and the loss of their aircraft.

But you can continue to live in your echo chamber for as long as you want. I’m sure the next time there is an insurgency in Kashmir and once again the Indians start claiming pakistans involvement, all this bravado and nonsense talk of India winning the conflict will evaporate and be forgotten- because IF an insurgency happens, India automatically loses this conflict, they didn’t achieve the goals set of shutting down pakistan “terrorist” infrastructure.

And an insurgency in Kashmir WILL happen again! Whether self inflicted by India or orchestrated by Pakistan. Kashmir is the favorite playground for both sides.


By the way- I think you guys forgot to arrest the four perps of Pahalgam probably because you were too busy coming up with a “complicated” military action against Pakistan. Would have done you guys a world of good if you had focused on that instead.
 
Just because a former US official said it, in his capacity as a private citizen and not an official of US government, with zero access to on the field intel — does not make his statements undisputed truth. . And the evidence that is coming to light is all from the Indian side. If you take time to cook propaganda in your favor, you can make a donkey look like Brad Pitt thanks to AI and media lobbying. And India does have a lot of paid lobbyists in the US, including officials from previous admins. That’s how they make a living by saying what their paymasters want them to say. That’s just how the US political landscape works.
I have lived here most of my life so I know it very well.

You still claiming that its a AI generated video ? And no the evidence is from a US Satellite company called Maxar and verified by reputable sources.

He (Rubin ) is in the know. So is John Spencer and Tom Cooper. I have linked videos and articles by all three of them, I have also linked Video footage and satellite images of the destruction in 12 different links. Its all there in black and white. But looks like you forgot to read your own stimson.org article which says India's achievements in the war are impressive by any measure and that there is no real evidence of any serious damage caused by Pakistani attacks on Indian Air bases. It also clearly says that Pakistan reached out to Indian embassy and DGMO ( who actually did not pick up the call the first time so they tried later again !! )

Don't take my word for it sooner or later you will realize how bad it was. For starters no Indian pilot was a causality whereas there are confirmed fatal casualties in Pak airbases of senior trained pilots who are hard to replace. Infact the extent of the damage caused by the Brahmos strike on Nur Khan base is yet to be ascertained.​


I have yet to see any credible source recently claim India won the conflict or achieved the goals India set out to achieve because most of the neutral world is still aghast and astonished at the ineptitude of IAF performance and the loss of their aircraft.

Did you go thru the neutral links I posted in#262 yet ?

The losses were not due to IAF but due to the decision made by Politicians to not disable Pakistans air defense first in the 2nd round when they did that the results are there for everybody to see.

BTW despite that decision to not do a SEAD or a DEAD the IAF hit all terror facilities that it targetted.


But you can continue to live in your echo chamber for as long as you want. I’m sure the next time there is an insurgency in Kashmir and once again the Indians start claiming pakistans involvement, all this bravado and nonsense talk of India winning the conflict will evaporate and be forgotten- because IF an insurgency happens, India automatically loses this conflict, they didn’t achieve the goals set of shutting down pakistan “terrorist” infrastructure.

And an insurgency in Kashmir WILL happen again! Whether self inflicted by India or orchestrated by Pakistan. Kashmir is the favorite playground for both sides.

I agree with you there ... but India has no other choice but to use overwhelming force to keep the Jijadi's in check and make it extremely expensive for their sponsors in Pakistan to think about funding these lunatics.


By the way- I think you guys forgot to arrest the four perps of Pahalgam probably because you were too busy coming up with a “complicated” military action against Pakistan. Would have done you guys a world of good if you had focused on that instead.

Naaah it doesnt mean anything because seen from past experiences the Terror factories will keep churning out these vermin and India decided that a bulk elimination was the need of the hour. Rest assured these and other vermin will be flushed out sooner or later.
 

You still claiming that its a AI generated video ? And no the evidence is from a US Satellite company called Maxar and verified by reputable sources.

He (Rubin ) is in the know. So is John Spencer and Tom Cooper. I have linked videos and articles by all three of them, I have also linked Video footage and satellite images of the destruction in 12 different links. Its all there in black and white. But looks like you forgot to read your own stimson.org article which says India's achievements in the war are impressive by any measure and that there is no real evidence of any serious damage caused by Pakistani attacks on Indian Air bases. It also clearly says that Pakistan reached out to Indian embassy and DGMO ( who actually did not pick up the call the first time so they tried later again !! )

Don't take my word for it sooner or later you will realize how bad it was. For starters no Indian pilot was a causality whereas there are confirmed fatal casualties in Pak airbases of senior trained pilots who are hard to replace. Infact the extent of the damage caused by the Brahmos strike on Nur Khan base is yet to be ascertained.​




Did you go thru the neutral links I posted in#262 yet ?

The losses were not due to IAF but due to the decision made by Politicians to not disable Pakistans air defense first in the 2nd round when they did that the results are there for everybody to see.

BTW despite that decision to not do a SEAD or a DEAD the IAF hit all terror facilities that it targetted.




I agree with you there ... but India has no other choice but to use overwhelming force to keep the Jijadi's in check and make it extremely expensive for their sponsors in Pakistan to think about funding these lunatics.




Naaah it doesnt mean anything because seen from past experiences the Terror factories will keep churning out these vermin and India decided that a bulk elimination was the need of the hour. Rest assured these and other vermin will be flushed out sooner or later.
Maybe the fact the security from the tourist hot spots were completely removed the day of the attack does not mean anything either. The fact the identity of the four individuals is also rapidly changing in Indian governments official communication also does not mean anything. You are guys are being fooled by your own government, which is busy trying to cheat thump you into believing you caused Pakistan significant damage while trying to completely distract the public from the crater size holes in the whole story.

Sooner you wake up to the reality the better it is for you guys. Pakistan is in a precarious situation and could ILL AFFORD a conflict at this time and yet your government is trying to sell you that it was them. Modi and Netanyahu use the same playbook. There are cases on one in Israel he is trying to distract his people from and here Modi is trying to distract from his failures and trying to win elections in Bihar. You guys can continue to deny it as much as you want but if there is tiny bit of intelligence left in the brainwashed masses, they will see through the fog.
 
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