India need a way out from Kashmir like USSR from Afghanistan & USA from Vietnam

[srh]

Everybody knows Kashmiris dont like to stay with India and India has been using force to keep them against their will.

This has taken toll on Indian army; Indian army know that Kashmiris dont want to be part of India so they have to commit all sort of brutal & heinous acts against the Kashmiris to keep them with India. This haunts them as they know that the general public of Kashmir hate them and will try to take revenge whenever they get a chance. They definitely would have been thinking: what is the point to keep an occupation when the general public always hates you? You cannot force somebody to love you.

I think India need a way out from Kashmir just like USSR left Afghanistan & USA left Vietnam. A sincere Indian army leader who put the interests of his army before anything else would definitely realize this is a no-win battle which is hurting his army and would rather get out of this mess. And would highly recommend his political leader to bring peace and end the conflict.

Big question is to find a way out which is also a respectable solution for India.

 

[slipcatch]

Everybody knows Kashmiris dont like to stay with India and India has been using force to keep them against their will.

This has taken toll on Indian army; Indian army know that Kashmiris dont want to be part of India so they have to commit all sort of brutal & heinous acts against the Kashmiris to keep them with India. This haunts them as they know that the general public of Kashmir hate them and will try to take revenge whenever they get a chance. They definitely would have been thinking: what is the point to keep an occupation when the general public always hates you? You cannot force somebody to love you.

I think India need a way out from Kashmir just like USSR left Afghanistan & USA left Vietnam. A sincere Indian army leader who put the interests of his army before anything else would definitely realize this is a no-win battle which is hurting his army and would rather get out of this mess. And would highly recommend his political leader to bring peace and end the conflict.

Big question is to find a way out which is also a respectable solution for India.

Saw few Indian Army interview from occupying Kashmir, none of them were keen to be there to do the job.

 

[Pakpak]

Its not that easy for them. The Soviets and US weren't annexing land hence could leave after claiming some sort of compromise. For India to leave they essentially have to abandon Kashmir. Their politicians would be lynched by the people if they did that.

 

[rhony]

Everybody knows Kashmiris dont like to stay with India and India has been using force to keep them against their will.

This has taken toll on Indian army; Indian army know that Kashmiris dont want to be part of India so they have to commit all sort of brutal & heinous acts against the Kashmiris to keep them with India. This haunts them as they know that the general public of Kashmir hate them and will try to take revenge whenever they get a chance. They definitely would have been thinking: what is the point to keep an occupation when the general public always hates you? You cannot force somebody to love you.

I think India need a way out from Kashmir just like USSR left Afghanistan & USA left Vietnam. A sincere Indian army leader who put the interests of his army before anything else would definitely realize this is a no-win battle which is hurting his army and would rather get out of this mess. And would highly recommend his political leader to bring peace and end the conflict.

Big question is to find a way out which is also a respectable solution for India.

USSR in Afghanistan and USA in Vietname were occupying forces. They had opposing forces equally strong (USA in Afg and USSR in Viet) due to the cold war. They were war zones. They were bleeding and were compelled to leave.

India is not an occupying force in Kashmir. At least it wasnt when Kashmir acceeded to India (The Raja and the Largest political party). There is no opposing political or military force for India in Kashmir. Heck, evn BJP ruled J&K as part of coalition until recently. A couple of hundred terrorists out of a million people are no match for half a million army. These terrorists apparently get recycled every year due to death or surrender. A few deaths on either side will not tilt any balance. Infact for every army death, Kashmiris will lose whatever sympathy they have amongst rest of India and from the western world. Considering the strategic advantage of Kashmir, growing power of India in the world and the weak armed struggle from the locals, natural resources, it is impossible to dislodge India from Kashmir. Even UN removed Kashmir from the "Unresolved Dispute list" on 2010. That means, no one actually cares

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...-of-U.N.-list-of-disputes/article15687886.ece

 

[Varun]

If there was oil under Kashmir's sands (snow), our bone-headedness of perching there for the last 72 years would have made sense. As it is there is nothing but trouble for us there, so we need to get out PRONTO.

The border should end at Himachal and Punjab - and we should work with Pakistan/China to ensure that the new territory doesn't cause any of the 3 of us any more trouble than it already has.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India are looking at Israel who with all it's occupation and brutal murders is still seen by some(mainly in the west) as some sort of strong democratic nation but India fails to understands the Zionists have much more power.

Israel will also have it;s time but yes you cannot occupy a people forever. Look at the Yanks, they invaded Afghanistan over 15 years ago and on the brink of leaving by making deals with the people they originally said they would destroy and rid the world of. They also went to Iraq based on lies and many of it's foot soldiers were sent back in body bags.

Leaders of nations rarely care for the soldiers. The US invaded Iraq for oil and to help destroy nations near Israel, there was no threat to the people of America from Saddam. In Kashmir there is no threat to India from the people who just want to live a normal life but India is in some delusion thinking it's a great power so doesn't have to give up land they can occupy by force. Sure but dont cry like the Americans when people fight you and kill your soldiers after you have killed their people.

 

[rhony]

If there was oil under Kashmir's sands (snow), our bone-headedness of perching there for the last 72 years would have made sense. As it is there is nothing but trouble for us there, so we need to get out PRONTO.

The border should end at Himachal and Punjab - and we should work with Pakistan/China to ensure that the new territory doesn't cause any of the 3 of us any more trouble than it already has.

Water!!

 

[Syed1]

It may happen in 5, 10 or 50 years, but an oppressor always faces defeat.

 

[Varun]

Water!!

That is the only valid reason I've heard for Kashmir's worth: most of our (Indian and Pakistani Punjab's) rivers originate from there. But surely nobody thought of future water scarcity issues in 1947 when the squabble began, and surely there are ways to nevertheless resolve this through benign treaties instead of the khichdi that is going on there and the price we have to pay in money, time and energy.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

I don't know why we need to discuss on this topic everyday. Lets get one thing very clear, India will NEVER let go Kashmir because of its strategic importance. Also it will set a bad preecedent for other states where North East, South India everyone would want their own country.

So we can discuss all these to feel good....but India will never let go Kashmir at any cost.

 

[Varun]

I don't know why we need to discuss on this topic everyday. Lets get one thing very clear, India will NEVER let go Kashmir because of its strategic importance. Also it will set a bad preecedent for other states where North East, South India everyone would want their own country.

So we can discuss all these to feel good....but India will never let go Kashmir at any cost.

Please elaborate, besides the water/rivers point.

 

[rhony]

Please elaborate, besides the water/rivers point.

The tough terrain acts as a natural border.

 

[rhony]

That is the only valid reason I've heard for Kashmir's worth: most of our (Indian and Pakistani Punjab's) rivers originate from there. But surely nobody thought of future water scarcity issues in 1947 when the squabble began, and surely there are ways to nevertheless resolve this through benign treaties instead of the khichdi that is going on there and the price we have to pay in money, time and energy.

I think that was always the main reason. The major water resources for both countries flow through that region and both countries wanted to capture it for the same reason.

 

[Varun]

I think that was always the main reason. The major water resources for both countries flow through that region and both countries wanted to capture it for the same reason.

Is that so? Then why do we (India) have to hide behind a thin cloak of Kashmir being integral to national unity, and they (Pakistan) have to hide behind the equally fragile reason of the Kashmiri people's hearts belonging to Pakistan?

Just say it like it is: we want to secure our water resources today and in the future. By the way, I still maintain that nobody had this foresight about water resources in 1947, so even this is a 2nd/3rd generation reason, albeit a very valid one.

 

[rhony]

Is that so? Then why do we (India) have to hide behind a thin cloak of Kashmir being integral to national unity, and they (Pakistan) have to hide behind the equally fragile reason of the Kashmiri people's hearts belonging to Pakistan?

Just say it like it is: we want to secure our water resources today and in the future. By the way, I still maintain that nobody had this foresight about water resources in 1947, so even this is a second/third generation reason.

People are the tools through which they want to grab the state. Why do Pakistan and India care about some random Kashmiri when their own countries have millions of people without basic necessities? At the end of the day, people die and will be replaced by the next gen. The land remains and so do the everflowing waters from the himalayas.

The Raja didnt accede right away for the same reason. He thought he had an ace up his sleeve because of the water. Pakistanis attacking Kashmir compelled him to court India. Water has always been the main issue

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is no way out for India for one simple reason: pride. For India it is more an issue of collective ego that they can't let go of Kashmir. Ironically, if Kashmir had become part of Pakistan in 1947 as it should have, then it would never have been a real issue. I think the idea of ceding the territory to Pakistan stings more than the the loss of land itself. India is so huge, why does that particular belt of land matter so much other than for fear of loss of face?

 

[rhony]

There is no way out for India for one simple reason: pride. For India it is more an issue of collective ego that they can't let go of Kashmir. Ironically, if Kashmir had become part of Pakistan in 1947 as it should have, then it would never have been a real issue. I think the idea of ceding the territory to Pakistan stings more than the the loss of land itself. India is so huge, why does that particular belt of land matter so much other than for fear of loss of face?

Pride and chauvinism are by products of rhetoric. Rhetoric is based on strategy. Startegy is based on resources. There is only one answer. It's water!!!

 

[Savak]

India should leave Kashmir and give Kashmir to Pakistan as it rightfully should have been Pakistan's in 1947. Kashmir will be Pakistan's 6th or 7th province.

 

[Swashbuckler]

India must do what is right for the Kashmiri people, we can not hold people hostage against their will. No occupying force has been able to do that, it may take time but separation always occurs. As modern independent nation, we are 72 years old which is nothing in the historical time scale. It is up to us whether we can prevent more bloodshed and money waste or inflate our fake pride by holding on to the place.

The cost of holding on is conveniently ignored by the pseudo patriots, as evidenced by the cries and wails of the relatives of the slain CRPF men. Almost all of them come from very poor background, it is a double tragedy. Ultimately the people the majority elite keep suppressed are the same who go to defend our territory. Son dies in the attack, father is a poor farmer struggling to pay off debts, the women in the family don't achieve their full potential, that is the real human tragedy amidst all the noise.

Is it really worth it? Partition blunder needs to be corrected.

 

[Varun]

If (when) I become PM I'll just pull up a giant Kashmir size calculator and show to every man, woman and child the amount of rupees that are being drained out of the treasury every second because of this 72-year old and counting naatak and show them the light. That should do the trick.

 

[mustang]

Pride and chauvinism are by products of rhetoric. Rhetoric is based on strategy. Startegy is based on resources. There is only one answer. It's water!!!

Total agreement with your point here. For good or bad, water is the biggest reason now since the past few decades when India realized the worth of water resources there. They already have some dependency on China now and giving up Kashmir could make them a lot more vulnerable, and that is ground reality.

I think we will slowly reach a worldwide age where water resources can become more precious than oil. I think the Indian think tank is taking a stance on Kashmir with that in mind ... and so does Pakistan. Let's face it, all of India's and Pakistan's rhetorics (Raja signed it off legally, we care about Kashmir muslims/pandits) - all of this is pure marketing hype to get the masses behind you. Average John Doe of either nation will care a hoot if your government is honest about it's strategic importance (especially when the body bags start piling up). Best way to keep having a line of eager men to fill the new body bags is to create an emotional rhetoric + raison d'etre -- this is true for both countries.

 

[mustang]

If (when) I become PM I'll just pull up a giant Kashmir size calculator and show to every man, woman and child the amount of rupees that are being drained out of the treasury every second because of this 72-year old and counting naatak and show them the light. That should do the trick.

Your reasoning and cause is noble - but what if you reach a situation where the value of the water source you get from there exceeds the value of resources you spend to hold onto the place? What will your objective assessment as a PM be at that point?

 

[jadaja]

Kashmir is part of India and few misled people say we want Pakistan will not change that fact. All those kids who are being brainwashed by Pakistan need to be educated.This nonsense that some misled people say we want Pakistan will not change that fact Kashmir is still part of India.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Kashmir is part of India and few misled people say we want Pakistan will not change that fact. All those kids who are being brainwashed by Pakistan need to be educated.This nonsense that some misled people say we want Pakistan will not change that fact Kashmir is still part of India.

I dont understand why some Indians such as you, claim Kashmir being part of India is a fact? Under Int law It is disputed land. So please educate me how it belongs to India?

 

[jadaja]

I dont understand why some Indians such as you, claim Kashmir being part of India is a fact? Under Int law It is disputed land. So please educate me how it belongs to India?

There is no disput, I have educated myself enough on that, just because few misled people who are being brainwashed by fundamentalists does not change that fact. Kashmir is integral part of India since 1947 and it will continue to be part of it. It is nonsense that it is disputed land ,there is no dispute. Opinion of few misled people won't change it.

 

[mustang]

Damn! I really liked the insights from [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134505]rhony[/MENTION] above but now this thread is also degenerating into a familiar pointless back and forth

 

[KingKhanWC]

There is no disput, I have educated myself enough on that, just because few misled people who are being brainwashed by fundamentalists does not change that fact. Kashmir is integral part of India since 1947 and it will continue to be part of it. It is nonsense that it is disputed land ,there is no dispute. Opinion of few misled people won't change it.

You've just given your opinion, please show me some factual evidence?

 

[cric_man]

There is no disput, I have educated myself enough on that, just because few misled people who are being brainwashed by fundamentalists does not change that fact. Kashmir is integral part of India since 1947 and it will continue to be part of it. It is nonsense that it is disputed land ,there is no dispute. Opinion of few misled people won't change it.

What is your reasoning that Kashmir is an integral part of India?

Should the same be applied to the Princely State of Hyderabad?
The Nizam of Hyderabad (a muslim) wanted to keep Hyderabad independent from India, it was invaded by Indian troops and forcefully annexed. What about Junagardh?

 

[Pak Warrior]

Since the indian army is mistreating Kashmiri people for many years, and the majority of Kashmiri people HATE india, they should let them vote to become an independent country or part of Pakistan. I can guarantee you one thing, Kashmir DOES NOT WANT TO BE PART OF INDIA!

 

[rhony]

What is your reasoning that Kashmir is an integral part of India?

Should the same be applied to the Princely State of Hyderabad?
The Nizam of Hyderabad (a muslim) wanted to keep Hyderabad independent from India, it was invaded by Indian troops and forcefully annexed. What about Junagardh?

In theory , the princely states had the option of deciding which country to join, or of remaining independent. In practice, the population of each province proved decisive. Now the question is, how did the population decide?

Junagadh held a plebiscite and the decision was easy despite the Nawab willing to accede to Pakistan. More than 99 PC of the population voted to join India.

Nizam and probably his people wanted to join Pakistan but it would have been impossible with the geography. If at all, this probably should have been a bigger dispute than Kashmir as India invaded the region.

Many people ignore the fact that the largest political party in Kashmir has agreed to.accede to India along with the Maharaja. It was not an invasion as Pakistanis believe. Infact it was Pakistan that invaded the region. Plebiscite was agreed upon but the first step was for Pakistan to remove the troops for India to hold the plebiscite. Pakistan did not withdraw the troops ever. Kashmiris' fate was sealed the moment Pakistan entered Kashmir and never left there by depriving the Kashmiris of a plebiscite.

 

[JaDed]

After we start settling on other planets ,India might move out, but not for next 100-200 years..

 

[jadaja]

What is your reasoning that Kashmir is an integral part of India?

Should the same be applied to the Princely State of Hyderabad?
The Nizam of Hyderabad (a muslim) wanted to keep Hyderabad independent from India, it was invaded by Indian troops and forcefully annexed. What about Junagardh?

Honestly I have one question, if Jinnah were to become PM of India, would there be any dispute.These disputes are a results of politicians looking for their benefits.Nehru was looking for his, Jinnah was looking for his as a result we have this mess.

What is need for Kashmir to be part of Pakistan???Would Pakistan relinquish the control of Balochistan?

 

[rhony]

Since the indian army is mistreating Kashmiri people for many years, and the majority of Kashmiri people HATE india, they should let them vote to become an independent country or part of Pakistan. I can guarantee you one thing, Kashmir DOES NOT WANT TO BE PART OF INDIA!

A couple of hundred terrorists and a few thousand stone pelters is not majority. But I agree with you that people should have a choice. They were deprived of that because of Pakistan's invasion and continued occupation. It is mandatory for Pak to remove it's people and army before a plebiscite can take place. Damn, I got this info online in the last 1 week. Majority of you who live there don't seem to understand your own history well.

 

[Major]

The day the Kashmir problem gets solved is the day when Pakistan would be entering into a mess. Hafiz Saeed and his affiliates will then be turning against us or which ever islamic jihaddi group that would be existing at the time.

History has shown that at the end these terrorist groups turn against you, because they enjoy fighting, thats all that they know.

 

[jadaja]

The day the Kashmir problem gets solved is the day when Pakistan would be entering into a mess. Hafiz Saeed and his affiliates will then be turning against us or which ever islamic jihaddi group that would be existing at the time.

History has shown that at the end these terrorist groups turn against you, because they enjoy fighting, thats all that they know.

Excellent point, terrorism has no religion, these groups are misleading youth into this nonsensical violence.They have keep their agendas going and they do anything to keep those thing alive. Politician from India and Army from Pakistan are doing their part in misleading the youth too.

 

[Pak Warrior]

A couple of hundred terrorists and a few thousand stone pelters is not majority. But I agree with you that people should have a choice. They were deprived of that because of Pakistan's invasion and continued occupation. It is mandatory for Pak to remove it's people and army before a plebiscite can take place. Damn, I got this info online in the last 1 week. Majority of you who live there don't seem to understand your own history well.

I'm glad we agree that they should have a choice...but trust me it is the Majority of Kashmiris that hate india and do not want to be part of it. How can you unsow the deep seeded hatred that the indian army has planted themselves for so many years

 

[Hornbill]

If there was oil under Kashmir's sands (snow), our bone-headedness of perching there for the last 72 years would have made sense. As it is there is nothing but trouble for us there, so we need to get out PRONTO.

The border should end at Himachal and Punjab - and we should work with Pakistan/China to ensure that the new territory doesn't cause any of the 3 of us any more trouble than it already has.

lol is there any need to leave rest of the major chunk of area which are trouble free

 

[JaDed]

lol is there any need to leave rest of the major chunk of area which are trouble free

I think even posters here are suggesting independence only for the valley those 3 regions.
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] I hope you meant o ly ourple areas..

 

[Hornbill]

I think even posters here are suggesting independence only for the valley those 3 regions.
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] I hope you meant o ly ourple areas..

That's why I quoted big hearted varun only, I think he will change his opinion when he realises NHPC is earning billions of rupees from Kashmir and has exploited only about 16 per cent of the estimated 20,000 MW of hydro-power potential.

 

[IMMY69]

In theory , the princely states had the option of deciding which country to join, or of remaining independent. In practice, the population of each province proved decisive. Now the question is, how did the population decide?

Junagadh held a plebiscite and the decision was easy despite the Nawab willing to accede to Pakistan. More than 99 PC of the population voted to join India.

Nizam and probably his people wanted to join Pakistan but it would have been impossible with the geography. If at all, this probably should have been a bigger dispute than Kashmir as India invaded the region.

Many people ignore the fact that the largest political party in Kashmir has agreed to.accede to India along with the Maharaja. It was not an invasion as Pakistanis believe. Infact it was Pakistan that invaded the region. Plebiscite was agreed upon but the first step was for Pakistan to remove the troops for India to hold the plebiscite. Pakistan did not withdraw the troops ever. Kashmiris' fate was sealed the moment Pakistan entered Kashmir and never left there by depriving the Kashmiris of a plebiscite.

and going by some of the posts here (i.e that Kashmir belongs to India) it’s good that Pakistan didn’t remove its army...

 

[rhony]

and going by some of the posts here (i.e that Kashmir belongs to India) it’s good that Pakistan didn’t remove its army...

Pakistan's doubt is valid. If they withdraw, India can occupy the rest. That's why there is no solution as there cannot be a plebiscite. Kashmir can't completely integrate into India because article 370 is permanent and nobody can do anything about it. Azad Kashmir is integrated into Pakistan and Gilgit has been begging Pakistan to make it into a province and they don't even consider themselves as Kashmiris. So, this status quo will never change. This IS the permanent solution. Everybody can sit and talk but nothing will come out of the talks. I'd say Indian Kashmir and Azad Kashmir should learn to be pragmatic from Gilgit Baltistan and stop dreaming about an independent country. India and Pakistan will never let Kashmir become an independent country because of water resources.

 

[cric_man]

In theory , the princely states had the option of deciding which country to join, or of remaining independent. In practice, the population of each province proved decisive. Now the question is, how did the population decide?

Junagadh held a plebiscite and the decision was easy despite the Nawab willing to accede to Pakistan. More than 99 PC of the population voted to join India.

Nizam and probably his people wanted to join Pakistan but it would have been impossible with the geography. If at all, this probably should have been a bigger dispute than Kashmir as India invaded the region.

Many people ignore the fact that the largest political party in Kashmir has agreed to.accede to India along with the Maharaja. It was not an invasion as Pakistanis believe. Infact it was Pakistan that invaded the region. Plebiscite was agreed upon but the first step was for Pakistan to remove the troops for India to hold the plebiscite. Pakistan did not withdraw the troops ever. Kashmiris' fate was sealed the moment Pakistan entered Kashmir and never left there by depriving the Kashmiris of a plebiscite.

Not the Kashmiri people. Just like Indian forces invaded Hyderabad, Pak Irregulars (not Army) invaded Kashmir, because the Raja was going to accede to India against the Kashmiri people's wishes

 

[rhony]

Not the Kashmiri people. Just like Indian forces invaded Hyderabad, Pak Irregulars (not Army) invaded Kashmir, because the Raja was going to accede to India against the Kashmiri people's wishes

Because of the urgency of the situation due to Pakistan invading Kashmir, there was no time for a plebiscite. That's why the Raja wanted to find out if the largest political party would agree to accede. Abdullah had the masses on his side being the largest political party and agreed to accede. So technically the king and the representative of the people have acceded. But is it exactly the wishes of the entire population? No. Gilgit for example didn't want to join India and wanted to join Pakistan as they didn't want themselves to be clubbed with Kashmiris. As for the rest of the population, a plebiscite was declared but never implemented because of the reasons I mentioned in the above post.

 

[rhony]

Not the Kashmiri people. Just like Indian forces invaded Hyderabad, Pak Irregulars (not Army) invaded Kashmir, because the Raja was going to accede to India against the Kashmiri people's wishes

You have your timelines wrong. The tribals backed by Pakistan have invaded Kashmir. After that, the Raja has acceded to India provided India sends their army to protect him.and his people. Fun fact is, Raja even threatened Nehru that he would reach out to Pakistan if India did not agree.

 

[sshakir411]

There should be no winner in the Kashmir resolution. There’s too much bad blood on both sides and if one is advantageous the other will hold a grudge forever.

 

[troodon]

It may happen in 5, 10 or 50 years, but an oppressor always faces defeat.

5, 10 should not be there in the equation. More like 100 or 150 yrs when India might disintegrate due to some major catastrophe.

Well nothing wrong in dreaming.

I can see a more plausible scenario. India allows rest of India to settle in Kashmir. A few years of fighting and everything whimpers down.

 

[Musakhel]

One big difference between the Vietnam and Afghanistan example the people of those countries took it upon themselves to fight the occupiers, everyday they made life hell for them untill the occupiers got fed up and left, in Kashmir you have a few hundred militants at best, untill every kashmiri takes it upon themselves that they value their freedom more than their lives, they will live under Indian occupation.

 

[rhony]

One big difference between the Vietnam and Afghanistan example the people of those countries took it upon themselves to fight the occupiers, everyday they made life hell for them untill the occupiers got fed up and left, in Kashmir you have a few hundred militants at best, untill every kashmiri takes it upon themselves that they value their freedom more than their lives, they will live under Indian occupation.

That's because Russia was supporting Vietnamese and USA supported the Afghans. They are superpowers. Who will provide half a million guns, tanks and air support to Kashmiris?

 

[Madplayer]

Separatists in Kashmir are being arrested and flown out of the state in Indian jails.

Many more companies of CRPF jawaans have been called into Kashmir.

Some reports say this is in preparation to remove Article 35A which prevents Indians and women who have married non-Kashmiris from purchasing land in Kashmir. If the reports about its removal are true, then this will be a cause of havoc in Kashmir.

 

[rhony]

Separatists in Kashmir are being arrested and flown out of the state in Indian jails.

Many more companies of CRPF jawaans have been called into Kashmir.

Some reports say this is in preparation to remove Article 35A which prevents Indians and women who have married non-Kashmiris from purchasing land in Kashmir. If the reports about its removal are true, then this will be a cause of havoc in Kashmir.

What kind of a cuckoo law is this that men can marry non residents and keep their resident status while women can't. Why are Kashmiri women silent about this

 

[rhony]

Separatists in Kashmir are being arrested and flown out of the state in Indian jails.

Many more companies of CRPF jawaans have been called into Kashmir.

Some reports say this is in preparation to remove Article 35A which prevents Indians and women who have married non-Kashmiris from purchasing land in Kashmir. If the reports about its removal are true, then this will be a cause of havoc in Kashmir.

BJP has tried to abrogate 370 last year I think. It didn't work because the courts have said it's permanent and can't be revoked. Why do you think they have authority now to revoke this? Maybe you are panicking for no reason

 

[rhony]

I think India is making reassurances to the west that it will avoid a war. Pakistan is very important to US Afghan policy and to China's belt road initiative.

In turn, India will ask everybody to close their eyes on Kashmir for the next few days/months while they clean up "internally". It fits perfectly with the Pakistani narrative that it is an internal indian issue with the explosives, bomber all being Indian.

Trump just issued a statement indicating there is a huge escalation and his people are communicating with both parties.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I think even posters here are suggesting independence only for the valley those 3 regions.
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] I hope you meant o ly ourple areas..

Yes, only the troubled valley.

 

[Madplayer]

What kind of a cuckoo law is this that men can marry non residents and keep their resident status while women can't. Why are Kashmiri women silent about this

Its not a cuckoo law. Its a perfectly valid law in context of our society and in context of article 370 and all women support this law. Cuckoo and draconian laws are AFSPA and PSA for which everybody protests.

 

[Madplayer]

I think India is making reassurances to the west that it will avoid a war. Pakistan is very important to US Afghan policy and to China's belt road initiative.

In turn, India will ask everybody to close their eyes on Kashmir for the next few days/months while they clean up "internally". It fits perfectly with the Pakistani narrative that it is an internal indian issue with the explosives, bomber all being Indian.

Trump just issued a statement indicating there is a huge escalation and his people are communicating with both parties.

You think too highly of Indian think tank. Rest assured they arent as bright as you think. They only know how to kill and maim and oppress. But yeah, perhaps their brothers in oppression, the Israelis might teach them new ways of evil.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Pride and chauvinism are by products of rhetoric. Rhetoric is based on strategy. Startegy is based on resources. There is only one answer. It's water!!!

I don't think water is the only reason if water would have been the reason then an agreement like Indus water treaty could have made to resolve the issue. IMO military establishment of the both countries want this fire to remain open to coock their chapatees. For this single reason they are fooling their peoples with different logics i-e water, atoot ung, muslim population, hindu pandits, important strategic location & so on.

 

[rhony]

Its not a cuckoo law. Its a perfectly valid law in context of our society and in context of article 370 and all women support this law. Cuckoo and draconian laws are AFSPA and PSA for which everybody protests.

Context of society in 40s and 50s? Understood. Kashmiri women have come a long way since then no? But I get the point of solidarity to keep 370 intact.

 

[rhony]

You think too highly of Indian think tank. Rest assured they arent as bright as you think. They only know how to kill and maim and oppress. But yeah, perhaps their brothers in oppression, the Israelis might teach them new ways of evil.

These are predictable moves. A country like India that relies on soft power a lot does not want to be in the news for the wrong reasons. That's how they keep their non alignment intact. They will not make strong moves without international support. Anyway, as I said 370 is impossible. BJP tried and failed but I've been reading up on 35A. It was a presidential decree that was made a part of the Constitution without the parliament ratification in 1954. BJP can technically target this as it doesn't have the same provisions of abrogation that 370 had.

 

[Madplayer]

Context of society in 40s and 50s? Understood. Kashmiri women have come a long way since then no? But I get the point of solidarity to keep 370 intact.

Call it whatever you want but the truth is that the law is perfectly in line with social and legal context and not to mention aimed at maintaining appropriate conditions for a plebiscite to take place. Indian regime's nefarious designs to alter the demography of the state will cause widespread chaos.
Just how low can modi stoop to win the elections?

 

[Madplayer]

These are predictable moves. A country like India that relies on soft power a lot does not want to be in the news for the wrong reasons. That's how they keep their non alignment intact. They will not make strong moves without international support. Anyway, as I said 370 is impossible. BJP tried and failed but I've been reading up on 35A. It was a presidential decree that was made a part of the Constitution without the parliament ratification in 1954. BJP can technically target this as it doesn't have the same provisions of abrogation that 370 had.

The JK high court has already termed it as a permanent article which cannot be removed. Secondly, if 35A is removed it is a direct threat to article 370. And for your kind information all three provinces are united in this case. Nobody wants it abrogation.

Having said that, it is almost confirmed that this article WILL be removed. And hence Indian regime will yet again cause bloodshed in Kashmir. Not as if they give a damn. You guys get happy when Kashmiris die anyway.

 

[rhony]

Call it whatever you want but the truth is that the law is perfectly in line with social and legal context and not to mention aimed at maintaining appropriate conditions for a plebiscite to take place. Indian regime's nefarious designs to alter the demography of the state will cause widespread chaos.
Just how low can modi stoop to win the elections?

Laws are for the people and if people are happy who am I to question. It's just out of curiosity. I've seen many reports about pandits moving out of Kashmir decades ago and there were attempts by GOI to rehabilitate them in Kashmir. I've even seen some local Kashmiri websites welcoming them. Is that really the sentiment on the ground? What are the chances of falsifying documents to claim some one is a Pandit even if he isn't. Were the old records digitized?

 

[Madplayer]

Laws are for the people and if people are happy who am I to question. It's just out of curiosity. I've seen many reports about pandits moving out of Kashmir decades ago and there were attempts by GOI to rehabilitate them in Kashmir. I've even seen some local Kashmiri websites welcoming them. Is that really the sentiment on the ground? What are the chances of falsifying documents to claim some one is a Pandit even if he isn't. Were the old records digitized?

The sentiment on ground is that majority want them back but not live in seperate colonies. We want them to live with us like the sikhs are living and like they used to live before leaving. This is the majority view.

A minority have a grudge against them that they abandoned the muslims when we all needed to live together and face the Indians. However even they dont mind them coming back.

About the prevention of falsification of documents, i really have no clue to be honest. I will read up on it. But common sense says there will be a census record with the state government. When Pandits left, i think they were about anywhere near 2 lakh to 3 lakh in number.

"According to political scientist Alexander Evans, approximately 95% of the total population of 160,000–170,000 of Kashmiri Brahmins, also called Kashmiri Pandits, (i.e. approximately 150,000 to 160,000) left the Kashmir Valley in 1990 as militancy engulfed the state. According to an estimate by the Central Intelligence Agency, about 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits from the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir have been internally displaced due to the ongoing violence." (Official portal of state gov).

I am sure they will come up with appropriate numbers if they dig into it. Because pandit families have been availing benefits in India as well so the records will be there.

 

[Suleiman]

India must do what is right for the Kashmiri people, we can not hold people hostage against their will. No occupying force has been able to do that, it may take time but separation always occurs. As modern independent nation, we are 72 years old which is nothing in the historical time scale. It is up to us whether we can prevent more bloodshed and money waste or inflate our fake pride by holding on to the place.

The cost of holding on is conveniently ignored by the pseudo patriots, as evidenced by the cries and wails of the relatives of the slain CRPF men. Almost all of them come from very poor background, it is a double tragedy. Ultimately the people the majority elite keep suppressed are the same who go to defend our territory. Son dies in the attack, father is a poor farmer struggling to pay off debts, the women in the family don't achieve their full potential, that is the real human tragedy amidst all the noise.

Is it really worth it? Partition blunder needs to be corrected.

Yeah that is true, innocent young troops on both sides have died decade after decade. It's a travesty to be wasting away like that in this modern day and age.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Kashmir is a lost case for India in 2019.

As history suggests, if the people continue to resist, you cannot hold on to a foreign land for long.

India may call Kashmir its integral part but when 95% of its population simply hates you and does not want to live under your rule, then this whole 'integral part' claim becomes a joke.

Indians are so frustrated today, looking at how the entire Kashmiri population is overwhelmingly Anti-Indian, that they are calling out for a genocide in Kashmir to hold on to it. It may sound exciting to some sick individuals in their office spaces and drawing rooms, but in reality Kashmiris will revolt and kick our backsides out of the valley if violence is what we resort to eventually just like how the Bangladeshis booted the West Pakistanis out of their land.

The only way to win over Kashmiris was by dialogue and giving them moral, financial, social support. Indians as a community and as a country have terribly failed at doing that. Not only have they been insensitive to Kashmiri concerns but they have tried everything in their right to make life difficult for them.

We lost Kashmiris long ago and our actions in 2019 have ensured for the coming generations also the Kashmiris will remai passionately anti Indians.

I will be glad if we can eventually pull out of Kashmir without facing international humiliation and heavy causalities as OP is suggesting. If we do not show the maturity and diplomatic wisdom required here, we are going to face huge consequences eventually.

All of this is from a oral point of view. Tactically also, India has been isolated in the region. China and Pakistan are well prepared to give India a reality check in case of an all out war where i don't see any fourth party willing to join this battle in India's favour. Russia was India's only genuine military ally but such has been the extent of our diplomatic failure that even they have started showing cold shoulder to us.

India needs to wake up and stop day dreaming about isolating Pakistan. If anything, i see India becoming loner with its false rhetoric with each passing year.

 

[rhony]

The sentiment on ground is that majority want them back but not live in seperate colonies. We want them to live with us like the sikhs are living and like they used to live before leaving. This is the majority view.

A minority have a grudge against them that they abandoned the muslims when we all needed to live together and face the Indians. However even they dont mind them coming back.

About the prevention of falsification of documents, i really have no clue to be honest. I will read up on it. But common sense says there will be a census record with the state government. When Pandits left, i think they were about anywhere near 2 lakh to 3 lakh in number.

"According to political scientist Alexander Evans, approximately 95% of the total population of 160,000–170,000 of Kashmiri Brahmins, also called Kashmiri Pandits, (i.e. approximately 150,000 to 160,000) left the Kashmir Valley in 1990 as militancy engulfed the state. According to an estimate by the Central Intelligence Agency, about 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits from the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir have been internally displaced due to the ongoing violence." (Official portal of state gov).

I am sure they will come up with appropriate numbers if they dig into it. Because pandit families have been availing benefits in India as well so the records will be there.

Cool. Thanks for the info. The people who.left have kids or even grand kids and those numbers should be taken into account as well. Let's see what happens.

 

[Bilal7]

InshAllah, Kashmir will one day get liberated and its occupiers will be humiliated.

 

[Musakhel]

That's because Russia was supporting Vietnamese and USA supported the Afghans. They are superpowers. Who will provide half a million guns, tanks and air support to Kashmiris?

Pakistan can provide arms, but The way I see it is the will of the kashmiri people is not there, even in the 90s most of the fighters in Kashmir were from Pakistan.

Arms and munitions can be provided but ultimately it will fall upon the people of the land to fight.

 

[the Great Khan]

Easy solution. Demilitarise it. End of. Create a soft border and in 10 years nobody will care who's got what as trade will increase on both sides of the border. Personally I don't think Pakistan wants to give up gilgit baltistan and other areas either so we compromise and simply demilitarise the whole area. But as long as Pakistan has a nuke this problem will never be truly resolved as third aprty actors dont want us to have a nuke so Kashmir is kept on the boil.

 

[rhony]

Pakistan can provide arms, but The way I see it is the will of the kashmiri people is not there, even in the 90s most of the fighters in Kashmir were from Pakistan.

Arms and munitions can be provided but ultimately it will fall upon the people of the land to fight.

Naa. Pakistan can't provide arms in those numbers. They wont be able to deny later. Remember, this is not an open war as was in the case of Afg or Vietnam.

 

[moghul]

There is no way out for India for one simple reason: pride. For India it is more an issue of collective ego that they can't let go of Kashmir. Ironically, if Kashmir had become part of Pakistan in 1947 as it should have, then it would never have been a real issue. I think the idea of ceding the territory to Pakistan stings more than the the loss of land itself. India is so huge, why does that particular belt of land matter so much other than for fear of loss of face?

Some Indian leader and his party will have to commit a political suicide to give Kasmiris their rights and get Indian army and rest of the India out of the mess ( for India ) called Kashmir.