India shot down six Pakistani military aircraft in May, indian air force chief says

[HalBass9]

Y’all are trying to reason with a group of people who just copy paste whatever their government says, because their government basically went, “Trust me, my cult,” and they all nodded like bobbleheads in a dashboard hula dance.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

well when Military officials make these remarks they have to be taken seriously no ? So why is the IWT still suspended despite Nuclear threat ? What is Pakistan going to do about it ? Why did you sit and pray when you did not know if the Indian Missiles were carrying Nuclear payload headed straight to your crown-jewel Air bases ?

All of that information is now out in the open .... you pretend that it did not happen but thats your choice and wouldnt surprise me at all considering that you lot believe that you never lost any wars to India including 1971, Kargil, Siachen etc etc.

Suspension of IWT does nt warrant a nuclear response. Pakistan never officialy said it would respond with nuclear strikes in return of treaty suspension.. Pak did say it amounts to going to war with each other. You are clearly a blind bakth who will believe any cooked up conspiracy theory such as radiation leak lol Pakistan does have second strike capability.. and Pak knows your military is not that irresponsible to launch a nuclear missile because India has stated policy of no first use so why should Pak assume India fired a nuclear missile at us? its Mutual destruction assured.. which means Indian Military played with lives of millions to just test a theory.. don't dare call yourselves responsible nation after these bizarre claims. You need some lessons in military and nuclear doctrines.. its not as simple as you think..

 

[uppercut]

Suspension of IWT does nt warrant a nuclear response. Pakistan never officialy said it would respond with nuclear strikes in return of treaty suspension.. Pak did say it amounts to going to war with each other. You are clearly a blind bakth who will believe any cooked up conspiracy theory such as radiation leak lol Pakistan does have second strike capability.. and Pak knows your military is not that irresponsible to launch a nuclear missile because India has stated policy of no first use so why should Pak assume India fired a nuclear missile at us? its Mutual destruction assured.. which means Indian Military played with lives of millions to just test a theory.. don't dare call yourselves responsible nation after these bizarre claims. You need some lessons in military and nuclear doctrines.. its not as simple as you think..

will respond later but check these out

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDDsacCV-oM --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak nukes now un-deployable
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naSumkK_vZ4 --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak without nukes
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnpYTsTWEWA --> Tom cooper on How IAF shattered PAF

 

[IMMY69]

Any proof. Lets assume india lost a jet. How difficult it is for a 4 tn ecoomy with nearly 700bn in reserves to replace a jet

But what s proven is that india can strike deep inside Pakistani territory whenever it wants

Doesn't this make you feel ashamed of your country?

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

will respond later but check these out

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDDsacCV-oM --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak nukes now un-deployable
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naSumkK_vZ4 --> Tom Cooper military historian says Pak without nukes
3. --> Tom cooper on How IAF shattered PAF

we do not bother checking Indian media , since they captured Lahore port ( does nt exist ) and and destroyed Karachi port ...Sorry but I want to keep my sanity by avoiding Indian media

 

[Bhaijaan]

4 pages in one day. What have I done here?

Looks like the IAF Chief’s comments hit a nerve.

 

[Rajdeep]

4 pages in one day. What have I done here?

Looks like the IAF Chief’s comments hit a nerve.

Truth hurts. Plus empty vessels makes more noise

#ItsAllOverSocialMedia

 

[Patriot]

As Sofia said..damage was negligible..like a window broken or debris falling...there is a reason Pak can't show anything..absolutely zero nada..the only reason the aircraft down has any credence is because CDS accepted a loss...I wonder why..is he that stupid or he wants to sell the XGuard decoys for future.

Uppercut accepted that some missiles did get through and were not intercepted. Now a missile isn’t going to simply only damage a window. Surely the damage is more than just that. I’ll accept maybe they didn’t do as much damage Pakistan is claiming but I tend to go with the middle of the line theory between what both sides are claiming, anything between a window breaking to buildings destroyed. Both sides are very much capable of lying.

 

[IMMY69]

Truth hurts. Plus empty vessels makes more noise

#ItsAllOverSocialMedia

Fascinating

Indians peddle lies and some posters try to put them/you straight... and now a typical deflection post..

we're literally seeing the mental disintegration of Indians right before our eyes...

 

[Patriot]

Truth hurts. Plus empty vessels makes more noise

#ItsAllOverSocialMedia

Look, no offence but Indian posters like straighttalk who I have had decent exchanges with and I find him reasonable does not agree with this news story about IAF downing Pak planes. So, not a lot of people are going to buy it.

 

[RexRex]

4 pages in one day. What have I done here?

Looks like the IAF Chief’s comments hit a nerve.

Lot of people are triggered. PAF is their last bastion of hope.

 

[uppercut]

we do not bother checking Indian media , since they captured Lahore port ( does nt exist ) and and destroyed Karachi port ...Sorry but I want to keep my sanity by avoiding Indian media

Tom Cooper is an Austrian Military history pro. Also there are other American and indeed Pakistani Military Pros who have said the same

Here you go:

1. https://smallwarsjournal.com/2025/05/22/indias-wake-up-call-why-us-defense-reform-must-match-the-speed-of-modern-war/ --> John Spencer a top US Militrary professional says India’s military action was a overwhelming success
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8Xya9brEo --> Michael Rubin former Pentagon official says Pak ran away scared !!
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrflQPLH_E --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the War ( and India bought receipts to back their win )
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-PQQTXrZyU --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the Brahmos Problem that Pak faces

 

[Patriot]

Tom Cooper is an Austrian Military history pro. Also there are other American and indeed Pakistani Military Pros who have said the same

Here you go:

1. https://smallwarsjournal.com/2025/05/22/indias-wake-up-call-why-us-defense-reform-must-match-the-speed-of-modern-war/ --> John Spencer a top US Militrary professional says India’s military action was a overwhelming success
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8Xya9brEo --> Michael Rubin former Pentagon official says Pak ran away scared !!
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrflQPLH_E --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the War ( and India bought receipts to back their win )
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-PQQTXrZyU --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the Brahmos Problem that Pak faces

Cooper has claimed that India struck Pakistani underground nuclear facilities. There is no evidence of this and no one else has corroborated this. Also, it’s not believable since hitting nuclear facilities is a massive escalation that I don’t think India would even try.

As for John Spencer, he is an expert in Urban Warfare, which this wasn’t, so I’m not going to believe what comes out of his mouth, especially considering that he is a genocide denier and a Zionist scumbag.

 

[uppercut]

Uppercut accepted that some missiles did get through and were not intercepted. Now a missile isn’t going to simply only damage a window. Surely the damage is more than just that.

Provided it is accurate and has enough payload firepower to cause damage that is visible even from satellites (like the Brahmos ). I doubt Pakistan has such missiles. Their Fatah missile was easily intercepted by the S400 or Akash which were the star performers in the Indian Air defense system.

I’ll accept maybe they didn’t do as much damage Pakistan is claiming but I tend to go with the middle of the line theory between what both sides are claiming, anything between a window breaking to buildings destroyed. Both sides are very much capable of lying.

There is no need to trust any party with vested interest in War scenarios. This is where the Satellite images come into play. You cannot deny the visual evidence sourced from a neutral party like Maxar.

 

[straighttalk]

That's your interpretation. he was nt asked about timeline.. he was asked about jets being lost and that's how he responded. Mistakes rectifeid and jets flew again which clearly implies they did nt for 2 days while Pak had its airfare on combat patrols all along.. Your interpretation is not necessarily a logical one

Logically speaking that was a great window for PAF to do some offensive actions per Reuters when the Indian air force is grounded. But your interpretation is built on fantasy. Did CDS say we were grounded for two days and only after two days we could fly again. He said mistake were corrected and in two days we destroyed radars and airbases. The action happened after two days ..thats why he mentioned two days. If action happened after 5days..he would have said five days ..if after five hours..it would be five hours
India clearly said our goal was to hit the terrorists and we did and we said we are done but would retaliate if Paksitan does anything in response. Pak did on May 8 and we responded on May 9. So not sure how the grounding comes into play.

Mistakes were not doing SEAD and DEAD..it doesn't take two days to decide we will take out PAF assets..it's not like they were writing new code or adding new weapons or technology ..that would take months.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Tom Cooper is an Austrian Military history pro. Also there are other American and indeed Pakistani Military Pros who have said the same

Here you go:

1. https://smallwarsjournal.com/2025/05/22/indias-wake-up-call-why-us-defense-reform-must-match-the-speed-of-modern-war/ --> John Spencer a top US Militrary professional says India’s military action was a overwhelming success
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8Xya9brEo --> Michael Rubin former Pentagon official says Pak ran away scared !!
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzrflQPLH_E --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the War ( and India bought receipts to back their win )
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-PQQTXrZyU --> Pakistani defense analyst commentary on the Brahmos Problem that Pak faces

there are pro Indian Analysts in numbers.. lets not go there. If I start quoting western paper on how Indian airforce was found wanting , you will just dismiss those as propaganda.. My discussion with you is over since you believe wild conspiracy theory of calling out nuclear bluff.. that was end point in me realizing you are blind Bakht and no amount of rationality will effect you

 

[straighttalk]

you crossed all red lines in your head or what? it is one thing to saber rattle and another to actually respond with a nuclear weapon.. it is extreme and last resort when nation is at brink of complete destruction ...red line as such loosing territory? loosing a command and control of those weapons? or loosing a whole chunk of our military so we can fall back to our nuclear weapons ? you mean to say you attacked our nuclear assets and destroyed them just to test our bluff? and at same time call yourself a responsible nation.. seriously are you messed up in your head to believe all this?

Though later hastily denied..Pak did call for nuclear council meeting..wonder why when the bases suffered limited damage

 

[Bhaijaan]

Lot of people are triggered. PAF is their last bastion of hope.

I have observed that many Pakistani posters are extremely sensitivity on such matters, reacting with undue agitation.

During the May escalation also, a significant number of Pakistani posters here abandoned all sense of composure, resorting to spreading silly rumours and inflammatory rhetoric. The most regrettable spectacle for me however was the display of celebratory Bhangra following what was by all objective measures a clear and humiliating defeat for them.

Such conduct diminished the respect I had for many individuals. While spirited national pride is to be respected, the celebration of an unequivocal loss is neither dignified nor befitting of honourable conduct.

They’re a unique bunch, our dear neighbours. In their history books they won every war, including the one where they lost half the country in 1971 and had 90k soldiers surrendering and being made to strip.

 

[uppercut]

Cooper has claimed that India struck Pakistani underground nuclear facilities. There is no evidence of this and no one else has corroborated this. Also, it’s not believable since hitting nuclear facilities is a massive escalation that I don’t think India would even try.

The Kirana Hills, Nur Khan and possibly Sargodha are all nuclear sites. Just the fact that Pakistan does not have the ability to figure out if a Missile is carrying Nuclear payload is telling.

As for John Spencer, he is an expert in Urban Warfare, which this wasn’t, so I’m not going to believe what comes out of his mouth, especially considering that he is a genocide denier and a Zionist scumbag.

What do you mean this is not Urban warfare ? All action that happened on both sides is densely populated. His personal views have no bearing on the facts that are clearly visible on ground and he actually has traveled to India and interacted with the people that matter.

 

[uppercut]

I have observed that many Pakistani posters are extremely sensitivity on such matters, reacting with undue agitation.

During the May escalation also, a significant number of Pakistani posters here abandoned all sense of composure, resorting to spreading silly rumours and inflammatory rhetoric. The most regrettable spectacle for me however was the display of celebratory Bhangra following what was by all objective measures a clear and humiliating defeat for them.

Such conduct diminished the respect I had for many individuals. While spirited national pride is to be respected, the celebration of an unequivocal loss is neither dignified nor befitting of honourable conduct.

They’re a unique bunch, our dear neighbours. In their history books they won every war, including the one where they lost half the country in 1971 and had 90k soldiers surrendering and being made to strip.

The most hilarious thread was where they convinced themselves that they hacked prominent Indian websites, Power Stations, railways ( lol ) etc.

 

[Patriot]

The Kirana Hills, Nur Khan and possibly Sargodha are all nuclear sites. Just the fact that Pakistan does not have the ability to figure out if a Missile is carrying Nuclear payload is telling.



What do you mean this is not Urban warfare ? All action that happened on both sides is densely populated. His personal views have no bearing on the facts that are clearly visible on ground and he actually has traveled to India and interacted with the people that matter.

What do you mean Pakistan does not have the ability to tell if a missile is carrying out a nuclear payload? You haven’t answered my question about why India would even try to target Pakistan underground nuclear facilities?

How was this urban warfare? We are talking about air defence and aerial combat/missiles. John Spencer’s expertise is on Urban warfare the like of what he experienced on the ground with troops in Iraq.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The most hilarious thread was where they convinced themselves that they hacked prominent Indian websites, Power Stations, railways ( lol ) etc.

For me it was the India tapped out to PAF thread. They were doing Bhangra in there after Brahmos had just obliterated a dozen military bases of theirs destroying a billion dollar worth of assets pushing Pakistan further into the American-Chinese weapons debt trap they’re already struggling to get out of.

Imagine giving air to the propaganda like that yet the next day Shehbaz Sharif talks about Brahmos hitting them like RKOs before morning prayers. lol

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Though later hastily denied..Pak did call for nuclear council meeting..wonder why when the bases suffered limited damage

India has stated policy of no first use.. and hitting nuclear assets amounts to first use that could generate a nuclear response , so to say that Indian Military went against its stated doctrine to test our threshold is as bizarre as it can be. Pakistan would use that incident to discredit India at intentional forums and present India as irresponsible nuclear armed country. Im sure Indian strategic planners are not blind Bakhts like uppercut

 

[Patriot]

I have observed that many Pakistani posters are extremely sensitivity on such matters, reacting with undue agitation.

During the May escalation also, a significant number of Pakistani posters here abandoned all sense of composure, resorting to spreading silly rumours and inflammatory rhetoric. The most regrettable spectacle for me however was the display of celebratory Bhangra following what was by all objective measures a clear and humiliating defeat for them.

Such conduct diminished the respect I had for many individuals. While spirited national pride is to be respected, the celebration of an unequivocal loss is neither dignified nor befitting of honourable conduct.

They’re a unique bunch, our dear neighbours. In their history books they won every war, including the one where they lost half the country in 1971 and had 90k soldiers surrendering and being made to strip.

This is not limited to Pakistanis. The same can be said of Indians. People of the subcontinent are an emotional nationalistic bunch. I guess the low IQ doesn’t help.

 

[uppercut]

there are pro Indian Analysts in numbers.. lets not go there. If I start quoting western paper on how Indian airforce was found wanting , you will just dismiss those as propaganda.. My discussion with you is over since you believe wild conspiracy theory of calling out nuclear bluff.. that was end point in me realizing you are blind Bakht and no amount of rationality will effect you

So anyone speaking in favor of Indian military is biased and unreliable ? If so what will you accept ? Are the Pakistani defense analysts that I quoted also not reliable then ?

Sure go ahead lets see the views of western defense analysts that suggest Pakistan won the war.

There is no wild conspiracy theory in what I have said. It is a fact that Pakistan called for the meeting of its nuclear council meeting and that your ISPR is on record saying that they will Nuke India if IWT is not restored. You can deny all you want I can likewise hurl derogatory labels at you but it is very clear that like most posters you cannot handle difficult facts.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This is not limited to Pakistanis. The same can be said of Indians. People of the subcontinent are an emotional nationalistic bunch. I guess the low IQ doesn’t help.

Indians have a tendency to show too much anger. Pakistanis are better in that regard. I find more Pakistanis to be Anti War than Indians majority of whom are nuclear ready.

Pakistanis however celebrate defeats like no one can. It’s a truly unique attribute found anywhere in the world.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

So anyone speaking in favor of Indian military is biased and unreliable ? If so what will you accept ? Are the Pakistani defense analysts that I quoted also not reliable then ?

Sure go ahead lets see the views of western defense analysts that suggest Pakistan won the war.

There is no wild conspiracy theory in what I have said. It is a fact that Pakistan called for the meeting of its nuclear council meeting and that your ISPR is on record saying that they will Nuke India if IWT is not restored. You can deny all you want I can likewise hurl derogatory labels at you but it is very clear that like most posters you cannot handle difficult facts.

ok you have dismantled our defenses , lay waste to our nuclear stocks..called out bluff...if you are worth your salt then hurry up and take back your land

 

[straighttalk]

India has stated policy of no first use.. and hitting nuclear assets amounts to first use that could generate a nuclear response , so to say that Indian Military went against its stated doctrine to test our threshold is as bizarre as it can be. Pakistan would use that incident to discredit India at intentional forums and present India as irresponsible nuclear armed country. Im sure Indian strategic planners are not blind Bakhts like uppercut

There is a difference between Indian media claiming something and Indian govt or military claiming something. Indian military didn't make any such claims and denied hitting kirana hills. Also kirana hills is not part of the shared nuclear sites..so it is within India's rights to hit it if Pak doesn't inform them about storing nuclear weapons.

But that's not the point I'm trying to make .the point is why did Paksitan pm call the nuclear groups meeting. As you said that will happen when Paksitan is in dire straits. Obviously damage wise ..these were not catastrophic. So messaging or symbolic wise it must be so bad that Paksitan knows that they can't respond in conventional ways if India starts hitting the airbases at will...else request ceasefire and stop fighting.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Can Pakistani posters confirm if this man is an ex Army chief and a credible commentator

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954392313389580326

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Lot of people are triggered. PAF is their last bastion of hope.

this forum is discussing news item and new bizarre claim made by IAF chief... What's triggering about it? Lot of discussion and talk about Ops Sindoor is going on in India..as decisive victors , it seems odd that lot of time is being spent by Indian media and now IAF chief joining in to convince Indian public about success of ops Sindoor as if Earlier beriefings fell short and still lot of people on Indian side need some convincing especially opposition that represents 40% of Indian populace

 

[Patriot]

Indians have a tendency to show too much anger. Pakistanis are better in that regard. I find more Pakistanis to be Anti War than Indians majority of whom are nuclear ready.

Pakistanis however celebrate defeats like no one can. It’s a truly unique attribute found anywhere in the world.

I don’t think anyone would celebrate a defeat. The word defeat in this instance is also an unfair word. I think it’s mostly that they believed everything their military told them and thought India was beaten badly. But then again, if India had suffered a massive ‘defeat’, do you think a lot of Indians would accept that reality, or would they deny that reality? If you are rational as you claim to be, be honest about this assessment.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

There is a difference between Indian media claiming something and Indian govt or military claiming something. Indian military didn't make any such claims and denied hitting kirana hills. Also kirana hills is not part of the shared nuclear sites..so it is within India's rights to hit it if Pak doesn't inform them about storing nuclear weapons.

But that's not the point I'm trying to make .the point is why did Paksitan pm call the nuclear groups meeting. As you said that will happen when Paksitan is in dire straits. Obviously damage wise ..these were not catastrophic. So messaging or symbolic wise it must be so bad that Paksitan knows that they can't respond in conventional ways if India starts hitting the airbases at will...else request ceasefire and stop fighting.

So basically bluff is not called out is what you mean and if India stopped after that.. it means deterrence worked

 

[straighttalk]

Y’all are trying to reason with a group of people who just copy paste whatever their government says, because their government basically went, “Trust me, my cult,” and they all nodded like bobbleheads in a dashboard hula dance.

Wow..didn't know Paksitan didn't have mirrors..maybe import it from China.

 

[straighttalk]

this forum is discussing news item and new bizarre claim made by IAF chief... What's triggering about it? Lot of discussion and talk about Ops Sindoor is going on in India..as decisive victors , it seems odd that lot of time is being spent by Indian media and now IAF chief joining in to convince Indian public about success of ops Sindoor as if Earlier beriefings fell short and still lot of people on Indian side need some convincing especially opposition that represents 40% of Indian populace

You do know that if India wanted to spread fake news..we could have done it on day 1 or just let our GODI media run riot with unnamed sources..for the IAF chief to make that claim...he is staking his entire professional reputation on the line.

 

[uppercut]

India has stated policy of no first use.. and hitting nuclear assets amounts to first use that could generate a nuclear response , so to say that Indian Military went against its stated doctrine to test our threshold is as bizarre as it can be. Pakistan would use that incident to discredit India at intentional forums and present India as irresponsible nuclear armed country. Im sure Indian strategic planners are not blind Bakhts like uppercut

You misunderstand the concept of no first use. It does not mean wait till a Nuclear attack and then respond. India will obviously respond if they sense a Nuclear mobilization.

And here is the interview of Advisor to Pak PM about Nuclear threshold and how Pakistan came very close to it and didnt have the means to do anything about it but hope.

 

[straighttalk]

So basically bluff is not called out is what you mean and if India stopped after that.. it means deterrence worked

It means Pak panicked and either wanted to launch nukes or likely threaten to launch nukes as they had no conventional response..Indian missiles can hit anything anywhere and hq9 is defunct...and your missiles can't hit anything ..so go Ballastic missiles or nukes or request ceasefire.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

You misunderstand the concept of no first use. It does not mean wait till a Nuclear attack and then respond. India will obviously respond if they sense a Nuclear mobilization.

And here is the interview of Advisor to Pak PM about Nuclear threshold and how Pakistan came very close to it and didnt have the means to do anything about it but hope.

he is basically saying that India is irresponsible nation that resorted to use nuclear capable missiles as means to strike our bases.. all our lives we have heard how India is conventionally superior and it can over run Pakistan with conventional means , yet 4 day conflict proved that India Strategic Moves are not rational and can be changed at whim of loosing out few jets and immediately go to top tier Missile like Brahmos as go to weapon without exhausting other means to strike Pakistan

 

[uppercut]

So basically bluff is not called out is what you mean and if India stopped after that.. it means deterrence worked

No ... it means that India had meticulously planned all of this and purposely hit Kirana Hills as it was not on the list of Nuclear sites that are exchanged by both sides thereby sending a open message that we know whats going on there. The smirk on Air Marshal AK Bharati in his press conference was telling. Also there is video footage of the attack on Kirana hills as it happened around noon time and we now know that it is a proper Nuclear storage facility. So is the under ground bunker in Nur Khan Air base which has the Nuclear command center.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

It means Pak panicked and either wanted to launch nukes or likely threaten to launch nukes as they had no conventional response..Indian missiles can hit anything anywhere and hq9 is defunct...and your missiles can't hit anything ..so go Ballastic missiles or nukes or request ceasefire.

im not sure though. India resorted to use its top tier Nuclear capable projectile so early in conflict..it had not even begun yet as proper war..few drones from our side and your side and suddenly Brahmos is in action. it means that Pak did something that caused India to resort to strategic weapon like Brahmos

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

No ... it means that India had meticulously planned all of this and purposely hit Kirana Hills as it was not on the list of Nuclear sites that are exchanged by both sides thereby sending a open message that we know whats going on there. The smirk on Air Marshal AK Bharati in his press conference was telling. Also there is video footage of the attack on Kirana hills as it happened around noon time and we now know that it is a proper Nuclear storage facility. So is the under ground bunker in Nur Khan Air base which has the Nuclear command center.

I have already responded to your bizarre theory and meticlous planning.. Im waiting when Indian Army will cross border since we have no nuclear umbrella

 

[uppercut]

he is basically saying that India is irresponsible nation that resorted to use nuclear capable missiles as means to strike our bases.. all our lives we have heard how India is conventionally superior and it can over run Pakistan with conventional means , yet 4 day conflict proved that India Strategic Moves are not rational and can be changed at whim of loosing out few jets and immediately go to top tier Missile like Brahmos as go to weapon without exhausting other means to strike Pakistan

You can interpret it however you want to but the fact is that the usual lame Nuclear blackmail of Pakistan was openly tested and called out by IAF. I understand that this is all hard for you to acknowledge but these are the harsh realities which is why Pakistan wisely reached out to their masters in Washington DC and Saudi to put a stop to this and Indian officials told them to try calling the Indian DGMO who kept them waiting.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

You can interpret it however you want to but the fact is that the usual lame Nuclear blackmail of Pakistan was openly tested and called out by IAF. I understand that this is all hard for you to acknowledge but these are the harsh realities which is why Pakistan wisely reached out to their masters in Washington DC and Saudi to put a stop to this and Indian officials told them to try calling the Indian DGMO who kept them waiting.

nice plot for Bollywood movie.. it will earn thousand of crores.. go for it

 

[uppercut]

nice plot for Bollywood movie.. it will earn thousand of crores.. go for it

So let me guess .... your own PM's advisor is not a reliable source then ?

 

[Patriot]

What’s the evidence that the NCA was convened?

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

So let me guess .... your own PM's advisor is not a reliable source then ?

if you want to interpret him the way you want to ..sure... stop trying to prove it to me that you called our nuclear bluff.. it is something that's not needed to be proven through discussion rather action.. I,m Waiting for India military to take back land of Kashmir since we are so vulnerable..whats the restraint?

 

[HalBass9]

Wow..didn't know Paksitan didn't have mirrors..maybe import it from China.

Indians are cheaper

 

[uppercut]

What do you mean Pakistan does not have the ability to tell if a missile is carrying out a nuclear payload?

See post#275 it has a video clip

You haven’t answered my question about why India would even try to target Pakistan underground nuclear facilities?

Because they had intelligence that Pakistan had not disclosed the Kirana hills as a Nuclear facility and they had the capability to conduct a precision strike at the entrance of that site and disable it. The attack on Nur-Khan command center was very precise. The idea is to send a loud and clear message that we will not tip-toe and be nice boys and that message was clearly received

How was this urban warfare? We are talking about air defence and aerial combat/missiles. John Spencer’s expertise is on Urban warfare the like of what he experienced on the ground with troops in Iraq.

Those days of Army lead incursions are long gone. The modern warfare is all beyond visual range lead by Air forces. It is well within his scope which is why he actually traveled all the way to India to get first hand info about the war. Two nuclear capable armies at war is a huge deal for any Military pro to ignore.

 

[uppercut]

if you want to interpret him the way you want to ..sure... stop trying to prove it to me that you called our nuclear bluff.. it is something that's not needed to be proven through discussion rather action..

There is no need for some fancy interpretation ... he clearly uses the N word. Go ask him why he used it if there was no no such alarming situation as you would like to believe.

I,m Waiting for India military to take back land of Kashmir since we are so vulnerable..whats the restraint?

Not worth the hassle and cost. And don't forget that as recently as April 16th your General said words to the effect of "Kashmir is our jugular vein" What is he going to do about the Indian held Kashmir ?

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

There is no need for some fancy interpretation ... he clearly uses the N word. Go ask him why he used it if there was no no such alarming situation as you would like to believe.



Not worth the hassle and cost. And don't forget that as recently as April 16th your General said words to the effect of "Kashmir is our jugular vein" What is he going to do about the Indian held Kashmir ?

hence you did nt call out nothing.. just imagination and plot for Bollywood fiction

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

There is no need for some fancy interpretation ... he clearly uses the N word. Go ask him why he used it if there was no no such alarming situation as you would like to believe.



Not worth the hassle and cost. And don't forget that as recently as April 16th your General said words to the effect of "Kashmir is our jugular vein" What is he going to do about the Indian held Kashmir ?

Pakistan says Kashmir is Jugular vein yes .. symbolically and official stance of Pak is that Kashmiris should be given right of plebiscite.. its constitution does not consider Kashmir as part of Pak unlike India , that's why this side of Kashmir is not part of federation ... so its actually India that needs to do something since you have picture of whole Kashmir hanging in your parliament

 

[Patriot]

See post#275 it has a video clip




Because they had intelligence that Pakistan had not disclosed the Kirana hills as a Nuclear facility and they had the capability to conduct a precision strike at the entrance of that site and disable it. The attack on Nur-Khan command center was very precise. The idea is to send a loud and clear message that we will not tip-toe and be nice boys and that message was clearly received




Those days of Army lead incursions are long gone. The modern warfare is all beyond visual range lead by Air forces. It is well within his scope which is why he actually traveled all the way to India to get first hand info about the war. Two nuclear capable armies at war is a huge deal for any Military pro to ignore.

I’m sorry but you are going to take Rana Sanaullah’s word on this lol. He doesn’t know what he is talking about.

First of all, I highly doubt Pakistan thought that India had a nuclear payload on a BrahMos. No country has the capability to tell if a missile is conventional or nuclear. Nuclear or conventional ballistic or cruise missiles have the same trajectories, ranges, etc. Even heat signatures don’t tell you what warhead is on the missile. This is why dual-use missiles are dangerous and the other side has no ability to tell if it’s a nuclear or conventional missile.

This is exactly why India does not use BrahMos for nuclear purposes and only as a conventional missile and why Pakistan would not doubt that. So Rana Sanaullah is talking rubbish.

It’s also why I call it rubbish that India would target Pakistani nuclear facilities because that is extremely dangerous and an escalation. So Tom Copper’s claim is doubtful and not credible and your point that India wanted to reach Pakistan a lesson is also rubbish.

Also, there is no evidence that Pakistan convened the NCA. Pakistan has denied this.

As for John Spencer, stop taking crap. He is the chair of Urban Warfare studies at Wes Point. His experience and expertise is on fighting in cities and urban areas not on areal warfare or air defence etc. He’s no expert in this and I wouldn’t rely on him. He also an islamaphobe and biased so not credible at all.

 

[uppercut]

hence you did nt call out nothing.. just imagination and plot for Bollywood fiction

So now you are going to openly pretend that he did not use the N word ?

Pakistan says Kashmir is Jugular vein yes .. symbolically and official stance of Pak is that Kashmiris should be given right of plebiscite.. its constitution does not consider Kashmir as part of Pak unlike India , that's why this side of Kashmir is not part of federation ... so its actually India that needs to do something since you have picture of whole Kashmir hanging in your parliament

So who initiated three wars for Kashmir and the numerous terror attacks if it is just symbolic ? Both sides cannot afford a full blown war especially when we hold the most strategically important part of Kashmir. Nothing much to gain other than a lot of headaches in going for PoK.

Speaking of Plebiscite whats stopping Pakistan from confirming to the UN agreeement and vacating PoK as first step ?

 

[straighttalk]

I’m sorry but you are going to take Rana Sanaullah’s word on this lol. He doesn’t know what he is talking about.

First of all, I highly doubt Pakistan thought that India had a nuclear payload on a BrahMos. No country has the capability to tell if a missile is conventional or nuclear. Nuclear or conventional ballistic or cruise missiles have the same trajectories, ranges, etc. Even heat signatures don’t tell you what warhead is on the missile. This is why dual-use missiles are dangerous and the other side has no ability to tell if it’s a nuclear or conventional missile.

This is exactly why India does not use BrahMos for nuclear purposes and only as a conventional missile and why Pakistan would not doubt that. So Rana Sanaullah is talking rubbish.

It’s also why I call it rubbish that India would target Pakistani nuclear facilities because that is extremely dangerous and an escalation. So Tom Copper’s claim is doubtful and not credible and your point that India wanted to reach Pakistan a lesson is also rubbish.

Also, there is no evidence that Pakistan convened the NCA. Pakistan has denied this.

As for John Spencer, stop taking crap. He is the chair of Urban Warfare studies at Wes Point. His experience and expertise is on fighting in cities and urban areas not on areal warfare or air defence etc. He’s no expert in this and I wouldn’t rely on him. He also an islamaphobe and biased so not credible at all.

Some evidence of nuclear council meeting

Chinese

Pakistani PM calls emergency meeting to discuss potential nuclear response to Indian strikes

Pakistani PM calls emergency meeting to discuss potential nuclear response to Indian strikes-

english.news.cn

Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/pakistan-pm-calls-meeting-body-that-oversees-nuclear-arsenal-says-pakistan-2025-05-10/

Us news

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2025-05-09/pakistan-pm-calls-meeting-of-body-that-oversees-nuclear-arsenal-says-pakistan-military

And your deputy pm Ishaq Dar is on record and quoted in the article. Whenever we claim something we provide irrefutable evidence ..not Godzilla video recordings

 

[straighttalk]

im not sure though. India resorted to use its top tier Nuclear capable projectile so early in conflict..it had not even begun yet as proper war..few drones from our side and your side and suddenly Brahmos is in action. it means that Pak did something that caused India to resort to strategic weapon like Brahmos

Strategic weapons in agni..Brahmos is a cruise missiles..which is used in opening salvo by many militaries like USA ..tomahawk..Iran etc

 

[straighttalk]

I don’t think anyone would celebrate a defeat. The word defeat in this instance is also an unfair word. I think it’s mostly that they believed everything their military told them and thought India was beaten badly. But then again, if India had suffered a massive ‘defeat’, do you think a lot of Indians would accept that reality, or would they deny that reality? If you are rational as you claim to be, be honest about this assessment.

Can't speak for all the Indian people but educated and rational people accept 1962 as a defeat even if we could claim China pancaked based on supposed Indian retaliation and vacated all land and called for ceasefire and hence we could call it a victory.

Rest we haven't faced any defeat.
In this case there is no victor or loser in tactical or strategic sense...this was a strike meant to dissuade future terror attacks on a tactical level..we don't know how many years of peace it will buy and at a strategic level IWT is a big victory for India. For Pakistan...the deteriorating relationship with USA is a victory and pak can gain some.weapons etc from usa

 

[uppercut]

I’m sorry but you are going to take Rana Sanaullah’s word on this lol. He doesn’t know what he is talking about.

So you guys appoint village idiots as advisors to your Prime Minister ? Also last I checked nobody has corrected him therefore there is no

First of all, I highly doubt Pakistan thought that India had a nuclear payload on a BrahMos. No country has the capability to tell if a missile is conventional or nuclear. Nuclear or conventional ballistic or cruise missiles have the same trajectories, ranges, etc. Even heat signatures don’t tell you what warhead is on the missile. This is why dual-use missiles are dangerous and the other side has no ability to tell if it’s a nuclear or conventional missile.

I never said that the detection has to happen while the missile is in flight. This has to happen when Nuclear war heads are mobilized OR have the ability to accurately intercept the missile mid air.

This is exactly why India does not use BrahMos for nuclear purposes and only as a conventional missile and why Pakistan would not doubt that. So Rana Sanaullah is talking rubbish.

It’s also why I call it rubbish that India would target Pakistani nuclear facilities because that is extremely dangerous and an escalation. So Tom Copper’s claim is doubtful and not credible and your point that India wanted to reach Pakistan a lesson is also rubbish.

What do you mean it is rubbish ? Are you going to deny that Nur-Khan, Sargodha and Kirana hills were targeted ?

Also, there is no evidence that Pakistan convened the NCA. Pakistan has denied this.

Well Rana Sanaullah says otherwise.

As for John Spencer, stop taking crap. He is the chair of Urban Warfare studies at Wes Point. His experience and expertise is on fighting in cities and urban areas not on areal warfare or air defence etc. He’s no expert in this and I wouldn’t rely on him. He also an islamaphobe and biased so not credible at all.

So John is not reliable, so is Tom , etc etc etc .... see the pattern of denial ? so what will accept as evidence ? Pakistani sources ?

 

[Patriot]

Some evidence of nuclear council meeting

Chinese

Pakistani PM calls emergency meeting to discuss potential nuclear response to Indian strikes

Pakistani PM calls emergency meeting to discuss potential nuclear response to Indian strikes-

english.news.cn

Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/pakistan-pm-calls-meeting-body-that-oversees-nuclear-arsenal-says-pakistan-2025-05-10/

Us news

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2025-05-09/pakistan-pm-calls-meeting-of-body-that-oversees-nuclear-arsenal-says-pakistan-military

And your deputy pm Ishaq Dar is on record and quoted in the article. Whenever we claim something we provide irrefutable evidence ..not Godzilla video recordings

I don’t get it. Why deny the NCA being convened when people like Dar have openly as per your sources said it was convened. Also, why even convene it, I mean it’s not like India was going to start a nuclear war.

 

[Patriot]

So you guys appoint village idiots as advisors to your Prime Minister ? Also last I checked nobody has corrected him therefore there is no



I never said that the detection has to happen while the missile is in flight. This has to happen when Nuclear war heads are mobilized OR have the ability to accurately intercept the missile mid air.




What do you mean it is rubbish ? Are you going to deny that Nur-Khan, Sargodha and Kirana hills were targeted ?



Well Rana Sanaullah says otherwise.



So John is not reliable, so is Tom , etc etc etc .... see the pattern of denial ? so what will accept as evidence ? Pakistani sources ?

Rana Sanaullah is a thug.

How would anyone detect what payload is on a missile before it’s in flight? For example, what if India replaces a conventional warhead with a nuclear warhead on a BrahMos? How would that be detected?

I’m not denying they were targeted but that the underground nuclear facilities were hit as claimed by Tom Copper. BrahMos is very accurate since it is a cruise missile and not a ballistic, so I doubt India would have deliberately targeted the underground facilities where ‘potentially’ nuclear warheads are being stored.

I’m not denying expert opinions, just challenging you in the people you are relying on. They have their biases and lack of credibility.

 

[uppercut]

Rana Sanaullah is a thug.

Ok so you guys appoint thugs as advisors to the Prime minister ? And then you wonder why India does not believe in dialogue with pakistan and only deals with them thru force.

How would anyone detect what payload is on a missile before it’s in flight? For example, what if India replaces a conventional warhead with a nuclear warhead on a BrahMos? How would that be detected?

By monitoring indias nuke storage facilities and also building reliable and accurate interception capabilities.

I’m not denying they were targeted but that the underground nuclear facilities were hit as claimed by Tom Copper. BrahMos is very accurate since it is a cruise missile and not a ballistic, so I doubt India would have deliberately targeted the underground facilities where ‘potentially’ nuclear warheads are being stored.

But they did when Kirana hills was hit just as Nur Khan was. Not sure what you mean here. Are you disputing that these two sites were not hit or that they are not associated with Nuclear weapons ?

I’m not denying expert opinions, just challenging you in the people you are relying on. They have their biases and lack of credibility.

Then do that by countering their claims based on facts rather than peurile jingoistic stuff like bringing their views on religion.

 

[Hitman]

You don't commit terrorism in India, we have absolutely no reason to even look at you the wrong way. Unfortunately, this simple thing is not understood by Pakistan. Operation Gibraltar, Kargil war, numerous terrorist attacks including Parliament attacks and Mumbai attacks .... the list goes on.

P.S. Shame on us for even talking to Pakistan after the Mumbai attacks.​

 

[uppercut]

I don’t get it. Why deny the NCA being convened when people like Dar have openly as per your sources said it was convened. Also, why even convene it, I mean it’s not like India was going to start a nuclear war.

It is futile to assume that actions of Pakistan are grounded on logical and rational thinking. Otherwise they wouldn't be found in bed with none other than OBL or undertaken idiotic missions like Kargil without even discussing that with their Navy and Airforce ( Let alone tell their own PM ), or indulge in massacre of their own people in 1971 , or mastermind 26/11 and so on and on. There is a reason why India does not have any relations at all with Pakistan. Infact our leadership has now finally realized that the only language that Pakistan understands is brute force and then some. Crazy people
​

 

[ameer219]

Please share the satellite image of s400 going down .. LMAO

Once again. Proof of stupidity. Which is why I am not posting it.

 

[uppercut]

Once again. Proof of stupidity. Which is why I am not posting it.

In other words .... "why-dont-you-just-trust-me-bro" ehh ?

 

[straighttalk]

Rana Sanaullah is a thug.

How would anyone detect what payload is on a missile before it’s in flight? For example, what if India replaces a conventional warhead with a nuclear warhead on a BrahMos? How would that be detected?

I’m not denying they were targeted but that the underground nuclear facilities were hit as claimed by Tom Copper. BrahMos is very accurate since it is a cruise missile and not a ballistic, so I doubt India would have deliberately targeted the underground facilities where ‘potentially’ nuclear warheads are being stored.

I’m not denying expert opinions, just challenging you in the people you are relying on. They have their biases and lack of credibility.

Tom.cotton has no special information specially pertaining to India and Pakistan..all these western sources or so called experts and reporters in non subcontinental media fall in these three camps

Part of Chinese misinformation racket in western media..target is not India but we are target of opportunity.

Just quote sources without verifying anything.

Experts like cotton etc making conclusions based on available media information...I think they are unbiased to an extent but heavily influenced by what is available in public domain.

If you look at their historical record..cotton and Spencer stayed away from indopak stuff..Christine fair is heavily anti Pakistan and there is a univ of Albany Prof who is any India.

 

[straighttalk]

In other words .... "why-dont-you-just-trust-me-bro" ehh ?

These guys .u can't make it up .this is the proof of them..in one post he claims satellite images of s400 destruction exist...called out and can't even accept it ..and then in straight face calls Indians bhakts stupid etc..when each one of us shared images and proof... Then parrote their govt lies...it this does not open his fellow posters eyes that their govt is heavily invested in narrative war and saving face doemstically then nothing else would

 

[uppercut]

These guys .u can't make it up .this is the proof of them..in one post he claims satellite images of s400 destruction exist...called out and can't even accept it ..and then in straight face calls Indians bhakts stupid etc..when each one of us shared images and proof... Then parrote their govt lies...it this does not open his fellow posters eyes that their govt is heavily invested in narrative war and saving face doemstically then nothing else would

well this is nothing .... they actually teach in their schools that they won all wars they fought with India

 

[Patriot]

Ok so you guys appoint thugs as advisors to the Prime minister ? And then you wonder why India does not believe in dialogue with pakistan and only deals with them thru force.



By monitoring indias nuke storage facilities and also building reliable and accurate interception capabilities.



But they did when Kirana hills was hit just as Nur Khan was. Not sure what you mean here. Are you disputing that these two sites were not hit or that they are not associated with Nuclear weapons ?




Then do that by countering their claims based on facts rather than peurile jingoistic stuff like bringing their views on religion.

Rana is the only thug I know of (maybe Zardari) but these thugs don’t rule the country, the military does, which is sensible. Has India ever appointed someone in a cabinet position who is a thug or a dodgy character?

You didn’t answer my question, how could any country detect if a conventional warhead has been replaced by a nuclear warhead in a missile that is known to be only used for conventional deployment? Also, the only credible way to tell from interception is by way of getting hold of the debris and BrahMos has never been used before so Pakistan would have no way on knowing. As I said, this is why countries make it known what their nuclear missiles are so there is no confusion.

Why don’t you explain what was hit in these sites exactly and provide evidence of nuclear underground storage facilities being hit? You keep saying the bases were hit but bases are large and have lots of assets. So tell me exactly what asset was hit and destroyed and were underground nuclear facilities in these bases also hit as you are claiming? If yes, are there satellite images for that?

I countered their Spencer’s technical capability and added that he is an Islamophobe as a side point but my point about this not being his area of expertise stands. As for Cooper, I’m not the only one questioning his claims about Pakistani nuclear underground facilities being hit. The Indian Air Force has denied they hit any nuclear facility and the IAEA has refuted claims of radiation leaks.

 

[ameer219]

The admission you keep talking about was CLEARLY MINIMAL. Do you agree or not ?




Lets see it. Can you post that



So the F16 hangar at Jacobabad was empty at that time and this makes sense to you ?



Here is the thing that you forget ... without ground support systems like command and control stations, ground radars, air defense systems , hangars etc the jets are of little value ( especially if the war drags on ). India hit most of these support systems which is truly crippling. This is why they were able to target 11 airbases without any interceptions. Also while you might be able to land on a highway but once it lands that jet is useless unless there is a hangar on that same highway to refuel and re-arm the jets.

It all depends on how you define minimal. Mine is straightforwardly "damaged was still sustained" as per your own wing commander.

As for the F-16, it's all as per your point of view "trust-me-bro" until there is further pictorial evidence of it being damaged just like how I agree to the hangar and runways being targeted.

You're not targeting a handful of large, obvious bases. The PAF operates a network of Main Operating Bases (MOBs), Forward Operating Bases (FOBs), and numerous smaller, concealed Satellite Operating Bases (SOBs). The moment tensions rise, our assets are not sitting clumped together on the main flight lines. They are dispersed across Pakistan's vast network. They are designed to work even after massive bombings. It is the same concept as businesses having a continuity plan or hospitals having emergency backup protocols. Planners from both ends are not just fixated on one plan, they have multiple plans for multiple contingencies. This is not forgetting the hardened bunkers for aircrafts and the vast area airbases occupy.

You're also thinking about logistics in a static way. In a worst case scenario, Pakistan, and even India practices mobile, agile logistics. The concept is called a Forward Arming and Refuelling Point (FARP). You're picturing a lone jet landing on an empty road. The reality is a fully choreographed operation. The highway strip is just the landing surface. The real base is concealed in a nearby patch of woods, a group of farm buildings, or a pre-planned location just off the road.When that jet lands, fuel bowsers, mobile armament trolleys, maintenance crews, and command vehicles emerge from their camouflaged positions. Jets will not be that useless as long as there is jets still flying around with proper maintenance crews and equipments.

 

[ameer219]

In other words .... "why-dont-you-just-trust-me-bro" ehh ?

Yeap. Trust me bro just like Indians refusing to discuss about their fallen jets.

 

[straighttalk]

/thread

Let’s see the coping in the next 3 months. Probably editing textbooks now that Pakistan doesn’t exist may be the next move.

Yet another example of low educated malinformed people being fooled or they trying to fool the awam ..with any claim but zero proof.

Let's ask the esteemed poster to not trust a pak Twitter handle and ask him to share the European think tanks actual post . Then we can ascertain how that European think tanks identified this information that who locked whom..is there a direct relay from Indian air force or Paksitani air force to this think tank or maybe the German air force.

But first I will wait for the think tanks actual report.

 

[ameer219]

These guys .u can't make it up .this is the proof of them..in one post he claims satellite images of s400 destruction exist...called out and can't even accept it ..and then in straight face calls Indians bhakts stupid etc..when each one of us shared images and proof... Then parrote their govt lies...it this does not open his fellow posters eyes that their govt is heavily invested in narrative war and saving face doemstically then nothing else would

You may have not have noted the absence of the S-400 in my analysis. This was a deliberate choice to maintain pragmatism, as I believe the topic currently lacks the solid evidence required.

But you keep blabbering like a typical Indian who only wants their point of view heard without even reading properly what I wrote.

Good job. You make your nation proud.

 

[straighttalk]

Yeap. Trust me bro just like Indians refusing to discuss about their fallen jets.

I think the word you are looking for is not agreeing with you .there are countless threads and post discussing thst exact topic. Still waiting for the s400 proof. But since you brought the jets topic...please share the 6 jets down wreckage..how else will we believe that jets are down

Your govt claimed 6 jets...our CDS said losses happened but much less than 6.
So back up the 6 jets evidence..there has to be 6 proof.

So far only one half evidence has been shared. A small section of bs001 ...experts have expressed doubts on it ..but the wreckage is not shown. Let's accept that as 1. Please show me the other 5.

Without evidence we can't accept anything

 

[straighttalk]

Can Pakistani posters confirm if this man is an ex Army chief and a credible commentator

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954392313389580326

He is a great Paksitani patriot and has heaped praises after praise on Pakistani air force

 

[Patriot]

It is futile to assume that actions of Pakistan are grounded on logical and rational thinking. Otherwise they wouldn't be found in bed with none other than OBL or undertaken idiotic missions like Kargil without even discussing that with their Navy and Airforce ( Let alone tell their own PM ), or indulge in massacre of their own people in 1971 , or mastermind 26/11 and so on and on. There is a reason why India does not have any relations at all with Pakistan. Infact our leadership has now finally realized that the only language that Pakistan understands is brute force and then some. Crazy people
​

Look, let’s be sensible here and not get emotional. Nation states act in both rational and irrational ways and Pakistan is of course no exception, where it has made stupid decisions. But it has also acted with calculated strategic aims such as the deep alliance it has formed with China. Cherry picking failures skews the picture and all states have failures. Look at the US with its foreign wars resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians.

 

[straighttalk]

You may have not have noted the absence of the S-400 in my analysis. This was a deliberate choice to maintain pragmatism, as I believe the topic currently lacks the solid evidence required.

But you keep blabbering like a typical Indian who only wants their point of view heard without even reading properly what I wrote.

Good job. You make your nation proud.

Fair..I apologize. I misread it.

 

[ameer219]

I think the word you are looking for is not agreeing with you .there are countless threads and post discussing thst exact topic. Still waiting for the s400 proof. But since you brought the jets topic...please share the 6 jets down wreckage..how else will we believe that jets are down

Your govt claimed 6 jets...our CDS said losses happened but much less than 6.
So back up the 6 jets evidence..there has to be 6 proof.

So far only one half evidence has been shared. A small section of bs001 ...experts have expressed doubts on it ..but the wreckage is not shown. Let's accept that as 1. Please show me the other 5.

Without evidence we can't accept anything

Have you looked at your fallen Rafale engine in Bathinda? Thar evidence not damning enough for you?

Don't just paint me with the same brush just because of what other says. That be good enough with regards to S-400.

Well a good step that you have at least accepted the loss of one plane. The number games will be up to you to decide. The only one I will provide to you is at least 2 from neutral sources ( to be fair) though I have seen at least 4 wreckages of them.

 

[ameer219]

Fair..I apologize. I misread it.

Apologies for being sarcastic too.

 

[straighttalk]

Have you looked at your fallen Rafale engine in Bathinda? Thar evidence not damning enough for you?

Don't just paint me with the same brush just because of what other says. That be good enough with regards to S-400.

Well a good step that you have at least accepted the loss of one plane. The number games will be up to you to decide. The only one I will provide to you is at least 2 from neutral sources ( to be fair) though I have seen at least 4 wreckages of them.

Please share the link to this image...I don't have permission to open the attachment

 

[uppercut]

It all depends on how you define minimal. Mine is straightforwardly "damaged was still sustained" as per your own wing commander.

Which is why specifics are important .. was it a runway, was it a Hangar, was it a building, was it a C2/C4, etc etc. So unless you have evidence to show the extent of the damage this is a pointless discussion. Because like I said time is the most important resource in combat situation, therefore if the damage is not extensive then it means nothing. And so far there is absolutely no evidence that suggests severe damage like what the Indian missiles did to numerous Pak air bases.

As for the F-16, it's all as per your point of view "trust-me-bro" until there is further pictorial evidence of it being damaged just like how I agree to the hangar and runways being targeted.

there is no trust-me-bro involved here as the Hangars are meant to house fighter jets and most importantly they are staffed with specialized personnel and equipment that is hard to replace at short notice ( even if we assume that all the jets were out doing sorties which is highly improbable in a Hangar of that size which can hold atleast 12 jets.

You're not targeting a handful of large, obvious bases. The PAF operates a network of Main Operating Bases (MOBs), Forward Operating Bases (FOBs), and numerous smaller, concealed Satellite Operating Bases (SOBs). The moment tensions rise, our assets are not sitting clumped together on the main flight lines. They are dispersed across Pakistan's vast network. They are designed to work even after massive bombings. It is the same concept as businesses having a continuity plan or hospitals having emergency backup protocols. Planners from both ends are not just fixated on one plan, they have multiple plans for multiple contingencies. This is not forgetting the hardened bunkers for aircrafts and the vast area airbases occupy.

Again you overlook the fact that your Air defense was severely degraded ... without that your jets are blinded ... the evidence is in the fact that IAF could fire 19 Brahmos and other missiles and drones ... most of it was not intercepted.

You're also thinking about logistics in a static way. In a worst case scenario, Pakistan, and even India practices mobile, agile logistics. The concept is called a Forward Arming and Refuelling Point (FARP). You're picturing a lone jet landing on an empty road. The reality is a fully choreographed operation. The highway strip is just the landing surface. The real base is concealed in a nearby patch of woods, a group of farm buildings, or a pre-planned location just off the road.When that jet lands, fuel bowsers, mobile armament trolleys, maintenance crews, and command vehicles emerge from their camouflaged positions. Jets will not be that useless as long as there is jets still flying around with proper maintenance crews and equipments.

these cannot be considered as a like-for-like substitute for a Hangar as they are at best temporary stop gap measures. At a highway FARP, only very basic servicing is possible ... like refuelling, loading munitions, topping off fluids, changing simple components. No heavy repairs, avionics swaps, or structural fixes and if a jet takes even moderate damage, it can’t be made combat-ready at the FARP. Therefore your abilities are severely downgraded and whatever functionality is available is not sustainable for long.

 

[uppercut]

Have you looked at your fallen Rafale engine in Bathinda? Thar evidence not damning enough for you?

Don't just paint me with the same brush just because of what other says. That be good enough with regards to S-400.

Well a good step that you have at least accepted the loss of one plane. The number games will be up to you to decide. The only one I will provide to you is at least 2 from neutral sources ( to be fair) though I have seen at least 4 wreckages of them.

Lets assume that there were 6 Indian Jets as claimed by Pakistan ... what does that mean/imply in terms of final war outcome ?