India vs Pakistan - Athletics records

[BlackShadow]

Salam guys. So I visited Wikipedia comparing India/Pakistan athletics national records, but what I found was really the most unexpected result ever! Pakistani men have not only been behind their Indian counterparts in terms of speed or agility, but are far behind when it comes to brute force and power events! This is so unlike what I am used to reading in this forum, so I thought I should share -





Guys, I am still shocked by what I am seeing here ! Is it true or something wrong with Wikipedia and other online sources? How can this be possible?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_records_in_athletics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pakistani_records_in_athletics

 

[boomboomcheema]

Still India cant produce Fast Bowlers so everything nullifies.

 

[BlackShadow]

Still India cant produce Fast Bowlers so everything nullifies.

Maybe, but please stay relevant.

 

[Asim_khan]

Maybe, but please stay relevant.

You do know there's a weight differential for the Shot Put/Javelin/Hammer/Discuss in Mens and Womens categories?

Mens Dicuss weight = 2 kilograms (4.4 lb) Diameter = 22 cm (8.7 in),
Women's discus weight = 1kg kilogram (2.2 lb) Diameter = 18 cm (7.1 in)

Men's shot weighs 7.260 kg (16.01 lb)
women's shot weighs 4 kg (8.8 lb)

Men's hammer = 16lbs (7.26 kg) length = 3 ft 11 3⁄4 inches (121.3 cm)
Women's hammer weight = 8.82 lb (4 kg) Length = 3 ft 11 in (119.4 cm)

Mens javelin = 2.6 and 2.7 m (8ft6 - 8ft10) in length and 800 g
Womens javelin = 2.2 and 2.3 m and weight = 600g.

Just a slight difference.

That despite Dutee Chand representing her Desh as a Woman.

 

[BlackShadow]

You do know there's a weight differential for the Shot Put/Javelin/Hammer/Discuss in Mens and Womens categories?

Mens Dicuss weight = 2 kilograms (4.4 lb) Diameter = 22 cm (8.7 in),
Women's discus weight = 1kg kilogram (2.2 lb) Diameter = 18 cm (7.1 in)

Men's shot weighs 7.260 kg (16.01 lb)
women's shot weighs 4 kg (8.8 lb)

Men's hammer = 16lbs (7.26 kg) length = 3 ft 11 3⁄4 inches (121.3 cm)
Women's hammer weight = 8.82 lb (4 kg) Length = 3 ft 11 in (119.4 cm)

Mens javelin = 2.6 and 2.7 m (8ft6 - 8ft10) in length and 800 g
Womens javelin = 2.2 and 2.3 m and weight = 600g.

Just a slight difference.

That despite Dutee Chand representing her Desh as a Woman.

Realized that and already requested an edit to the mods. I guess I'll add a female comparison later.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

What's the point of this? Pakistan has no system for Athletics at any level.

 

[enkidu_]

Imagine a Chinese goes on a Afghan cricket forum, showcases their Olympic performances, and cunningly imply that the Chinese are physically stronger than the Afghans.

Of course no Chinese is insecure enough to even think of this, and the Chinese knows that the pop. difference and the infrastructure/funds/even the political situation differ as well.

The same way, India has 1.1 billion (yes, billion) more pop than Pak, and you're breaking news that its athletes have better records.

Wow.

By the way, how does India compare with Afghanistan ? To know wether the legend is true, that the Indian is more powerful than the Afghan.

And also China ? Because you know they have the same population, and considering how meek the Chinese is as compared to the strong Indian, I guess Bharat would take the cake as well.

But why limit to athletics ? India has produced some of the most Miss World's, and Pak none, which means that Indians are also better looking than Pakistanis (and Afghans, Chinese, etc as well, ofc).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Imagine a Chinese goes on a Afghan cricket forum, showcases their Olympic performances, and cunningly imply that the Chinese are physically stronger than the Afghans.

Of course no Chinese is insecure enough to even think of this, and the Chinese knows that the pop. difference and the infrastructure/funds/even the political situation differ as well.

The same way, India has 1.1 billion (yes, billion) more pop than Pak, and you're breaking news that its athletes have better records.

Wow.

By the way, how does India compare with Afghanistan ? To know wether the legend is true, that the Indian is more powerful than the Afghan.

And also China ? Because you know they have the same population, and considering how meek the Chinese is as compared to the strong Indian, I guess Bharat would take the cake as well.

But why limit to athletics ? India has produced some of the most Miss World's, and Pak none, which means that Indians are also better looking than Pakistanis (and Afghans, Chinese, etc as well, ofc).

Very poor logic. beyond a limit, population is not an advantage but a liability. How did croatia reach the world cup final with less population, compared to china?

India indeed deserves all the global respect for having made a mark in sports despite such a huge population.

 

[TM Riddle]

Oh the population argument.
Love it!

 

[BlackShadow]

Imagine a Chinese goes on a Afghan cricket forum, showcases their Olympic performances, and cunningly imply that the Chinese are physically stronger than the Afghans.

Of course no Chinese is insecure enough to even think of this, and the Chinese knows that the pop. difference and the infrastructure/funds/even the political situation differ as well.

The same way, India has 1.1 billion (yes, billion) more pop than Pak, and you're breaking news that its athletes have better records.

Wow.

By the way, how does India compare with Afghanistan ? To know wether the legend is true, that the Indian is more powerful than the Afghan.

And also China ? Because you know they have the same population, and considering how meek the Chinese is as compared to the strong Indian, I guess Bharat would take the cake as well.

But why limit to athletics ? India has produced some of the most Miss World's, and Pak none, which means that Indians are also better looking than Pakistanis (and Afghans, Chinese, etc as well, ofc).

Poor comparison [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]. Sporting achievements in general have all to do with economic status of a particular country. Chinese could be compared to India/Pak/Afganistan in 1950s or 60s, but not today. India and Pakistan are still quite comparable on all counts, but your China-Afgan comparison is as ridiculous as it gets.

 

[enkidu_]

Very poor logic. beyond a limit, population is not an advantage but a liability. How did croatia reach the world cup final with less population, compared to china?

India indeed deserves all the global respect for having made a mark in sports despite such a huge population.

The Croats have a different history from the Chinese. The Croats were well-off from the days of the Austro Hungarian empire (being Catholics in a Catholic set-up) when football was introduced, so they had the middle class and began to play football at least half a century before China, where football was "invented". In Tito's Yugoslavia football was heavily promoted because of the "proletarian" nature of the sport and it's cross ethnic appeal (making peace between Croats/Serbs/Bosniaks/Slovenes).

On the other hand, Mao Zedong declared the end of the century of humiliation in 1949 : forget about football, the imperialists left China in a state that you won't find in the poorest African country today, from far, and their first preoccupation was probably eating, for decades.

Then they had a middle class and invested into sports/athletics (see their Olympic record since thee reintroduction around the 80s, after bettering the domestic infrastructure), and if they're not as good in football as in let's say basketball, it has other reasons.

But the thing is Croatia and China have a different political history.

On the other hand Pak and India began more or less the same (with a slight advantage in India with the industrialists in Gujarat and Bombay ; disadvantage for Pak to welcome refugees making 10% of its total pop back then), but the pop difference is huge, 1.1 BILLION.

 

[enkidu_]

Poor comparison [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]. Sporting achievements in general have all to do with economic status of a particular country. Chinese could be compared to India/Pak/Afganistan in 1950s or 60s, but not today. India and Pakistan are still quite comparable on all counts, but your China-Afgan comparison is as ridiculous as it gets.

So a 1.1 BILLION pop difference for you is nothing ?

 

[BlackShadow]

So a 1.1 BILLION pop difference for you is nothing ?

Indian state Haryana population = 2.5 crore
Pakistan population = 20 crores.

Do you want to me to use population logic and compare sporting achievements? How come that little state is easily outperforming Pakistan in Commonwealths and Asian Games? If your logic was to be believed, then all American, British or Australian sporting rivalries be a joke because "population" ..right? Stop acting like Pakistan is a little island.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The Croats have a different history from the Chinese. The Croats were well-off from the days of the Austro Hungarian empire (being Catholics in a Catholic set-up) when football was introduced, so they had the middle class and began to play football at least half a century before China, where football was "invented". In Tito's Yugoslavia football was heavily promoted because of the "proletarian" nature of the sport and it's cross ethnic appeal (making peace between Croats/Serbs/Bosniaks/Slovenes).

On the other hand, Mao Zedong declared the end of the century of humiliation in 1949 : forget about football, the imperialists left China in a state that you won't find in the poorest African country today, from far, and their first preoccupation was probably eating, for decades.

Then they had a middle class and invested into sports/athletics (see their Olympic record since thee reintroduction around the 80s, after bettering the domestic infrastructure), and if they're not as good in football as in let's say basketball, it has other reasons.

But the thing is Croatia and China have a different political history.

On the other hand Pak and India began more or less the same (with a slight advantage in India with the industrialists in Gujarat and Bombay ; disadvantage for Pak to welcome refugees making 10% of its total pop back then), but the pop difference is huge, 1.1 BILLION.

So you concede that population is not a major factor. Good. If you put some effort to think deeply, you will realize the population of india is a liability when it comes to sporting achievement.

 

[Pakistanian]

Indian state Haryana population = 2.5 crore
Pakistan population = 20 crores.

Do you want to me to use population logic and compare sporting achievements? How come that little state is easily outperforming Pakistan in Commonwealths and Asian Games? If your logic was to be believed, then all American, British or Australian sporting rivalries be a joke because "population" ..right? Stop acting like Pakistan is a little island.

Oh you wanna do dumb comparsions?

Haryana - 25 million
Chitral - 450,000

 

[BlackShadow]

Oh you wanna do dumb comparsions?

Haryana - 25 million
Chitral - 450,000

I am glad that you found the comparison dumb, proves my point.

 

[enkidu_]

Indian state Haryana population = 2.5 crore
Pakistan population = 20 crores.

Do you want to me to use population logic and compare sporting achievements? How come that little state is easily outperforming Pakistan in Commonwealths and Asian Games? If your logic was to be believed, then all American, British or Australian sporting rivalries be a joke because "population" ..right? Stop acting like Pakistan is a little island.

I don't know the details of Olympic achievements of Haryana, nor where it stands in terms of infrastructure investments and funds from the union, but you're giving me the Indian state with the best Olympic results as AFAIK Haryana athletes are always over represented in the Indian contingent.

That's like saying that the city of Lahore (1 crore) has produced better fast bowlers (Imran Khan/Wasim Akram) than the whole of India (130 crore), while Lahore has probably produced 50% of Pak's fast bowlers itself, for obvious reasons (strong urban middle class).

But I thought that all Indians are the same ? Are peoples in Haryana better than those in Bihar, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, ... in athletics ? What could be the reason(s) ?

 

[Pakistanian]

I am glad that you found the comparison dumb, proves my point.

No, your comparison is dumb. India is at a huge advantage with itz population
Using Haryanas population against Pakistan is just absurd, compare it to Chitral then cause they're comparable in terms of their population share in their country.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Population argument is not a valid one. You can dominate athletics and sports with 5 million people if you've got the genetics and system. For example, Jamaica in sprinting and NZ in rugby.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This has been discussed so many times here. What's new in this thread? I already said BCCI should organise mini IPL to keep fans like OP happy. They are trying to find happiness in other sports now.

 

[BlackShadow]

I don't know the details of Olympic achievements of Haryana, nor where it stands in terms of infrastructure investments and funds from the union, but you're giving me the Indian state with the best Olympic results as AFAIK Haryana athletes are always over represented in the Indian contingent.

That's like saying that the city of Lahore (1 crore) has produced better fast bowlers (Imran Khan/Wasim Akram) than the whole of India (130 crore), while Lahore has probably produced 50% of Pak's fast bowlers itself.

But I thought that all Indians are the same ? Are peoples in Haryana better than those in Bihar, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, ... in athletics ? What could be the reason(s) ?

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. You brought up the weird China-Afganistan example to support your "population" argument without even mentioning their economic status. Where did China stand when a Chinese was earning as much as an Afgan, Indian or Pakistani?

There is no reason why a 200 million people strong Pakistan should be using population as an excuse. Some Pakistani posters brought up the Pakistani sporting culture, and that's a far better argument to present their case.

Having said all that, I still can't explain that unbelievable 7-10m gulf in Javelin and Discus throws! India is as poor as Pakistan and trust me, our sporting bodies aren't known for being competent either.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No, your comparison is dumb. India is at a huge advantage with itz population
Using Haryanas population against Pakistan is just absurd, compare it to Chitral then cause they're comparable in terms of their population share in their country.

If OP was serious about comparing neighbours in athletics then he would have also posted China's records as well.

 

[BlackShadow]

If OP was serious about comparing neighbours in athletics then he would have also posted China's records as well.

In what galaxy is China comparable to India or Pakistan? Different ethnicity, no shared culture and are several times more affluent. I know you have friends to make, but atleast make some sense.

 

[boomboomcheema]

If OP was serious about comparing neighbours in athletics then he would have also posted China's records as well.

Bro, you are the most logical and sensible Indian Poster on PP. Respect.

 

[ManFan]

The timing of this thread is very strange...

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

In what galaxy is China comparable to India or Pakistan? Different ethnicity, no shared culture and are several times more affluent. I know you have friends to make, but atleast make some sense.

May be you don't know this but they are also asians.

 

[boomboomcheema]

The timing of this thread is very strange...

Offcourse it has nothing to do with the recent annihilation of India in a different sport. Purely a conincidence.

 

[ManFan]

Offcourse it has nothing to do with the recent annihilation of India in a different sport. Purely a conincidence.

“Coincidences are completely meaningless” ~ Professor Richard Dawkins

Surely there must be some point to the OP’s timing that has no convenient bias whatsoever.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What's the point of this? Pakistan has no system for Athletics at any level.

The point of the thread is the OP seems to have insecurity about Indian athletic capability with respect to Pakistan's and thus needed to produce some evidence which go against that. Hopefully the stats will help others with similar condition.

 

[enkidu_]

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. You brought up the weird China-Afganistan example to support your "population" argument without even mentioning their economic status. Where did China stand when a Chinese was earning as much as an Afgan, Indian or Pakistani?

There is no reason why a 200 million people strong Pakistan should be using population as an excuse. Some Pakistani posters brought up the Pakistani sporting culture, and that's a far better argument to present their case.

Having said all that, I still can't explain that unbelievable 7-10m gulf in Javelin and Discus throws! India is as poor as Pakistan and trust me, our sporting bodies aren't known for being competent either.

China/Afghanistan argument was because of the pop difference but I did precise the different general conditions as well (GDP/capita, no infrastructure due to war, etc)

India/Pakistan you ALSO have a lot of pop. difference, of 1.1 billion, and obviously you'll have better athletic records considering the more or less same socio economic situation, because of the numbers if anything.

In what galaxy is China comparable to India or Pakistan? Different ethnicity, no shared culture and are several times more affluent. I know you have friends to make, but atleast make some sense.

Pakistan's major ethnicities are the following : Punjabis (60%), Pashtuns (15%), Sindhis (15%), Baloch (5%), others (Urdu speakers mainly from UP/Gujarat, few from Rajasthan/Bengal ; thousands of Sheedis, Chitralis, etc here and there).

at minimum 95% of Pak has nothing to do with 97-98% of Indians, ethnically (basically all Indians minus Punjabis and few Sindhis).

 

[BlackShadow]

May be you don't know this but they are also asians.

This thread isn't about Asia but India-Pak rivalry, two poor South Asian nations with shared history, culture and people. Or do you believe such comparisons should be exclusive to Cricket?

 

[Pakistanian]

Population argument is not a valid one. You can dominate athletics and sports with 5 million people if you've got the genetics and system. For example, Jamaica in sprinting and NZ in rugby.

Lol enough with the genetics argument. Scientific racism is outdated and most people over here don't believe that trash. Only people back in the homelands believe in this martial race theory among other other superstitions.

 

[BlackShadow]

China/Afghanistan argument was because of the pop difference but I did precise the different general conditions as well (GDP/capita, no infrastructure due to war, etc)

India/Pakistan you ALSO have a lot of pop. difference, of 1.1 billion, and obviously you'll have better athletic records considering the more or less same socio economic situation, because of the numbers if anything.



Pakistan's major ethnicities are the following : Punjabis (60%), Pashtuns (15%), Sindhis (15%), Baloch (5%), others (Urdu speakers mainly from UP/Gujarat, few from Rajasthan/Bengal ; thousands of Sheedis, Chitralis, etc here and there).

at minimum 95% of Pak has nothing to do with 97-98% of Indians, ethnically (basically all Indians minus Punjabis and few Sindhis).

The population argument falls flat every single time, specially when you are finding excuse for a country of 200 million people. But let's buy your logic and make a USA-Britain example, which is precisely where India-Pak stand as per their population ratio.

As per your logic, it is natural that in EVERY athletic event, USA should be far ahead of Britain (because that's how it is with India and Paksitan). It is also very natural that EVERY American Shotput/Javelin/Discus/Hammer throw record should be 7-10 metres ahead of the best Britain does, right? Not inches, but meters!?

I would totally understand your point if we were talking Indian athletes leading by 1/10th of a second, and maybe a foot in distance.. but I am sorry, but your argument doesn't quite cover the kind of gulf we are talking about.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This thread isn't about Asia but India-Pak rivalry, two poor South Asian nations with shared history, culture and people. Or do you believe such comparisons should be exclusive to Cricket?

Are you afraid of comparing ourselves to China? Just like you got shocked to know what you wrote in the OP today I am sure you will be shocked again if you start comparing ourselves to China too.

 

[enkidu_]

The population argument falls flat every single time, specially when you are finding excuse for a country of 200 million people. But let's buy your logic and make a USA-Britain example, which is precisely where India-Pak stand as per their population ratio.

As per your logic, it is natural that in EVERY athletic event, USA should be far ahead of Britain (because that's how it is with India and Paksitan). It is also very natural that EVERY American Shotput/Javelin/Discus/Hammer throw record should be 7-10 metres ahead of the best Britain does, right? Not inches, but meters!?

I would totally understand your point if we were talking Indian athletes leading by 1/10th of a second, and maybe a foot in distance.. but I am sorry, but your argument doesn't quite cover the kind of gulf we are talking about.

The UK/US difference is not of 1.1 billion, but of 200 millions in the latter's favor, and the UK has a way stronger middle-class than the US, and it's the urban middle class which produces the athletes (and scientists/artists).

Pak/India not only have a 1.1 billion difference but the middle class, which has a farcical definition for the Third World economists, is probably stronger in India as well.

And ethnically the US is in fact way, way closer to the UK than Pak is to India : some 20% of Americans are said to be full or partial English descent, and there are also other groups like the Ulster Scots (who have given dozens of Presidents), the Irish of course, etc whereas Pak and India only share one real major ethnic group (Punjabis).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Are you afraid of comparing ourselves to China? Just like you got shocked to know what you wrote in the OP today I am sure you will be shocked again if you start comparing ourselves to China too.

Why are you derailing the discussion. Feel free to create a thread on china and india.

India vs Pakistan is blockbuster. Let's see how many people come to see your china comparison.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Lol enough with the genetics argument. Scientific racism is outdated and most people over here don't believe that trash. Only people back in the homelands believe in this martial race theory among other other superstitions.

What are you talking about?

 

[Syed1]

Bunda insecure ho.... leken kabhi OP jitna nahi.



Why doesn't OP compare India's record with China?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Bunda insecure ho.... leken kabhi OP jitna nahi.



Why doesn't OP compare India's record with China?

Because OP is obsessed with Pakistan.

 

[TM Riddle]

Bunda insecure ho.... leken kabhi OP jitna nahi.



Why doesn't OP compare India's record with China?

Why would op compare with China when it's a completely different country?
India and Pakistan were basically same Nation 70 years ago and share a common culture and practices.
Why would op want to compare with a country that is perhaps less diverse than my small village in a remotest corner of India and whose populations is almost homogeneous with 90% percent people comprising of Han Chinese?

 

[BlackShadow]

Already answered it twice and and there was nothing you disagreed with. But you are still asking me the same question again and again.

In what galaxy is China comparable to India or Pakistan? Different ethnicity, no shared culture and are several times more affluent. I know you have friends to make, but atleast make some sense.

This thread isn't about Asia but India-Pak rivalry, two poor South Asian nations with shared history, culture and people. Or do you believe such comparisons should be exclusive to Cricket?

 

[enkidu_]

Why would op compare with China when it's a completely different country?
India and Pakistan were basically same Nation 70 years ago and share a common culture and practices.
Why would op want to compare with a country that is perhaps less diverse than my small village in a remotest corner of India and whose populations is almost homogeneous with 90% percent people comprising of Han Chinese?

How many Punjabis/Sindhis/Baloch/Pashtuns (not the ones mixed with Indians) are there in India ? 2-3% at best.

These same ethnic groups make 95% of Pak.

 

[TM Riddle]

How many Punjabis/Sindhis/Baloch/Pashtuns (not the ones mixed with Indians) are there in India ? 2-3% at best.

These same ethnic groups make 95% of Pak.

How many Rajputs/Jatts/Gujjars/Yadavs (not the one mixed) are there in south or north east India?
0.2-0.3% at best.
These same ethnic groups make majority of north and yet we share a similar culture with both South and North East (even though majority of NE is Christian).

Keep em coming!

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Already answered it twice and and there was nothing you disagreed with. But you are still asking me the same question again and again.

Looked like a poor excuse hence you didn't get any reply.

We do not compare ourselves to China because we are afraid of them.

You are comparing ourselves with a country where cricket is the only known sport. Hockey has died and other sports do not have any facilities. You are comparing ourselves with a country where foreign teams do not want to go. Congratulations.

 

[JaDed]

Lol enough with the genetics argument. Scientific racism is outdated and most people over here don't believe that trash. Only people back in the homelands believe in this martial race theory among other other superstitions.

What lol? You think genetics is not a thing in sports?

 

[enkidu_]

How many Rajputs/Jatts/Gujjars/Yadavs (not the one mixed) are there in south or north east India?
0.2-0.3% at best.
These same ethnic groups make majority of north and yet we share a similar culture with both South and North East (even though majority of NE is Christian).

Keep em coming!

Rajputs/Jatts/etc are caste, not ethnicites.

A Punjabi Rajput has nothing to do with a Rajasthani Rajputs in ethnicity (looks/culture/language/etc).

We are talking of ethnic groups.

Pakistan has the following ethnic groups : Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch, who make up 95% of the country, but the same ethnic groups make 2-3% of India.

That means that at least 95% of Pakistanais have nothing to do with 97-98% of India in terms of ethnicities.

And keep in mind that in the 5% of Pak I count the migrants from India, who themselves have nothing to do with the majority of India either (for instance many of the "Rohilla Pathans" moved from U.P. to Karachi - a large part of Urdu speakers are from this community - and I don't think actress Mahira Khan would feel connection to anyone from U.P.)

 

[JaDed]

One needs a system in place, as India improves economically we will get better systems and thus provide more athletes, Pak doesn't have systems to enable their athletes but I do think once enabled with good systems they will do well because Pak is majority Punjabi-Haryanvi kind of genes.

But I think certain sports India will be better, for example badminton not to forget Indian women will always punch above their weight, as they have shown multiple times recently.

 

[BlackShadow]

Looked like a poor excuse hence you didn't get any reply.

We do not compare ourselves to China because we are afraid of them.

You are comparing ourselves with a country where cricket is the only known sport. Hockey has died and other sports do not have any facilities. You are comparing ourselves with a country where foreign teams do not want to go. Congratulations.

Poor excuse because socio-economic factors don't drive a country's sporting achievements? Or may be because threads on India-Pak rivalry don't mean anything unless they involve a 3rd nation, right?

Cool, feel free to start your own thread. Stop attacking mine for no reason.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Poor excuse because socio-economic factors don't drive a countries sporting achievements? Or may be because threads on India-Pak rivalry don't mean anything unless they involve a 3rd nation, right?

Cool, feel free to start your own thread. Stop attacking mine for no reason.

Hold on. Nobody is attacking your precious thread here. Don't start a thread if you can't take different views. You are too sensitive for that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The point of the thread is the OP seems to have insecurity about Indian athletic capability with respect to Pakistan's and thus needed to produce some evidence which go against that. Hopefully the stats will help others with similar condition.

Which part in the OP shows insecurity?

Rather it insults Indian athletes who despite huge constraints have done well in asian games CWG and are now improving in Olympics.

 

[TM Riddle]

Rajputs/Jatts/etc are caste, not ethnicites.

A Punjabi Rajput has nothing to do with a Rajasthani Rajputs in ethnicity (looks/culture/language/etc).

We are talking of ethnic groups.

Pakistan has the following ethnic groups : Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch, who make up 95% of the country, but the same ethnic groups make 2-3% of India.

That means that at least 95% of Pakistanais have nothing to do with 97-98% of India in terms of ethnicities.

And keep in mind that in the 5% of Pak I count the migrants from India, who themselves have nothing to do with the majority of India either (for instance many of the "Rohilla Pathans" moved from U.P. to Karachi - a large part of Urdu speakers are from this community - and I don't think actress Mahira Khan would feel connection to anyone from U.P.)

Bullcrap. Rajputs are a ethnicity and 99% of them share common origins.
Case in point , different Rajput clans of Punjab have common clans in Rajasthan and Gujarat. For instance Ghorewahas are originally from Rajputana and Bhatis of Jaiselmer were from modern day Pakistan before they were ousted by Ghaznavids in 11th century.

Btw we don't consider Rajputs of Muzaffarabad as the real ones so your opinion don't mean zilch here.

Again majority of South and North East (apart from Brahmans) have nothing to do with rest of the India having totally different cultures and customs and yet we are the same people no matter how you try to twist it.


As I said keep em coming!

 

[troodon]

Pakistan do not take sports seriously. The chubby Pakistanis I have seen are a clear example.

Based on the medals won, to me in India Jatts are the best in sports. There are 8.25 crore Jatts living in India.

Since Pak population is only 20 crores, I am sure their Jat population will be much much less.

Less Jatts = No Medals

 

[BlackShadow]

Hold on. Nobody is attacking your precious thread here. Don't start a thread if you can't take different views. You are too sensitive for that.

For the last time, it's not a view when you can't counter anything and repeat your nonsense like a parrot. Let me ask you again -

1) Don't socio-economic factors drive a country's sporting success? If yes, then how do you even compare China to India or Pakistan? If your answer is no, then why don't you give me China's sporting achievements in 50s, 60s or 70s and prove your point?

2) Why should I involve a 3rd country when I am talking about India vs Pakistan rivalry? What do we share with China for the comparison to be natural?

 

[enkidu_]

Bullcrap. Rajputs are a ethnicity and 99% of them share common origins.
Case in point , different Rajput clans of Punjab have common clans in Rajasthan and Gujarat. For instance Ghorewahas are originally from Rajputana and Bhatis of Jaiselmer were from modern day Pakistan before they were ousted by Ghaznavids in 11th century.

Btw we don't consider Rajputs of Muzaffarabad as the real ones so your opinion don't mean zilch here.

Again majority of South and North East (apart from Brahmans) have nothing to do with rest of the India having totally different cultures and customs and yet we are the same people no matter how you try to twist it.


As I said keep em coming!

These are mythologies. Rajput clans also claim descent from Hindu gods.

Anyone familiar with Punjabi Rajputs and Rajasthani Rajputs know they're as different as two ethnic groups can be.

No serious individual takes Rajput as an ethnic group.

Do you consider Brahmins as an ethnic group as well ?

Do you see any kind of resemblance on any level between Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra, Bengali Brahmins, Tamil Brahmins, ... ? No.

Punjabis, Tamils, Bengalis, ... these are the ethnic groups.

 

[TM Riddle]

Pakistan do not take sports seriously. The chubby Pakistanis I have seen are a clear example.

Based on the medals won, to me in India Jatts are the best in sports. There are 8.25 crore Jatts living in India.

Since Pak population is only 20 crores, I am sure their Jat population will be much much less.

Less Jatts = No Medals

It's the culture of Haryana more than anything.
More Haryanvis= More medals

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

For the last time, it's not a view when you can't counter anything and repeat your nonsense like a parrot. Let me ask you again -

1) Don't socio-economic factors drive a country's sporting success? If yes, then how do you even compare China to India or Pakistan? If your answer is no, then why don't you give me China's sporting achievements in 50s, 60s or 70s and prove your point?

2) Why should I involve a 3rd country when I am talking about India vs Pakistan rivalry? What do we share with China for the comparison to be natural?

I asked you why are we not comparing ourselves to China? Is it that hard to understand for you? You are just here for point scoring nothing else.

 

[TM Riddle]

These are mythologies. Rajput clans also claim descent from Hindu gods.

Anyone familiar with Punjabi Rajputs and Rajasthani Rajputs know they're as different as two ethnic groups can be.

No serious individual takes Rajput as an ethnic group.

Do you consider Brahmins as an ethnic group as well ?

Do you see any kind of resemblance on any level between Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra, Bengali Brahmins, Tamil Brahmins, ... ? No.

Punjabis, Tamils, Bengalis, ... these are the ethnic groups.

Mythologies end with the solar and lunar connection.Fact remains that Rajputs of South Asia share a common lineage as proven by existence of common clans in Punjab and Rajasthan.
I have relatives in Sindh who have been there before the Mughals.
Akbar was born in Amarkot fort ( distant relatives)
Except maybe the ones from Muzaffarabad whom we don't consider real ones and count as offsprings borne of rape.

Brahmins were definitely one single group once when Aryans started to immigrate to India and later got mixed with indigenous populations depending upon the regions.

 

[BlackShadow]

I asked you why are we not comparing ourselves to China? Is it that hard to understand for you? You are just here for point scoring nothing else.

God, you are a special case. Socio-economic factors and quality of life is the #1 indicator of a country's sporting success. Chinese are several times richer than Indians or Pakistanis, so how is the comparison even fair?

Secondly, the thread is about India-Pak rivalry, so stop crying about why a 3rd nation isn't included. I hope you get it this time.

 

[enkidu_]

Mythologies end with the solar and lunar connection.Fact remains that Rajputs of South Asia share a common lineage as proven by existence of common clans in Punjab and Rajasthan.
I have relatives in Sindh who have been there before the Mughals.
Akbar was born in Amarkot fort ( distant relatives)
Except maybe the ones from Muzaffarabad whom we don't consider real ones and count as offsprings borne of rape.

Brahmins were definitely one single group once when Aryans started to immigrate to India and later got mixed with indigenous populations depending upon the regions.

Again these are mythologies. You go on Jatt websites and they'll tell you that this Rajput clan was in fact Jatt and so on. Anyone familiar with Rajputs from both regions would know that they only share a name.

A caste doesn't make an ethnicity, but a sub division of an ethnicity : in Pak Punjab a Rajput is closer to a Jatt and a Gujjar than the same Punjabi Rajput is close to a Rajput from elsewhere (like Rajasthan). It's in fact pretty obvious, and even surprising that we have to discuss it.

And the Hindu fascination with rape is detriment to your own womenfolk.

 

[troodon]

To me, Indians due to its over population suffer from malnutrition and stunted growth. Populaiton is a huge hindrance for India in every aspect including sports.
So people comparing Population of India and Pakistan when it comes to sports is useless. India is winning in spite of over population not because of.

Overall, Indian people are more athletic as proved from the sporting achievements.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

God, you are a special case. Socio-economic factors and quality of life is the #1 indicator of a country's sporting success. Chinese are several times richer than Indians or Pakistanis, so how is the comparison even fair?

Secondly, the thread is about India-Pak rivalry, so stop crying about why a 3rd nation isn't included. I hope you get it this time.

Looks like I am wasting my time with a shadow here. I like to compare my country with those who are better than us. Guys like you are the reason why we will never progress in other sports and continue winning 2-3 medals in olympics. Guys like you always compare ourselves with weak so that we look better.

 

[TM Riddle]

Again these are mythologies. You go on Jatt websites and they'll tell you that this Rajput clan was in fact Jatt and so on. Anyone familiar with Rajputs from both regions would know that they only share a name.

A caste doesn't make an ethnicity, but a sub division of an ethnicity : in Pak Punjab a Rajput is closer to a Jatt and a Gujjar than the same Punjabi Rajput is close to a Rajput form elsewhere (like Rajasthan). It's in fact pretty obvious.

And the Hindu fascination with rape is detriment to your own womenfolk.

I don't need to go to Jatt websites as most of them are filled with propaganda material considering they were a non entity a couple of centuries ago and only recently seen a rise in social standing hence the frustration.
We on the other hand descend from the original Vedic Kshatriyas who immigrated to India 4000 years ago and don't need no propaganda websites for our cause.
Every Abdul, Anil and Anthony knows about our glory and we don't need to convince people about our achievements

You are spouting rubbish and nothing else. A Punjabi Rajput has nothing to do with Jatts and Gujjars and infact most of them look down upon these castes considering them inferior. I have plenty of Muslim Rajput friends from Punjab all of whom are proud of their heritage and who would consider it extremely offensive to get themselves compared with the aforementioned castes.

PS: The ones from Muzaffarabad are fake.
Keep em coming

 

[enkidu_]

I don't need to go to Jatt websites as most of them are filled with propaganda material considering they were a non entity a couple of centuries ago and only recently seen a rise in social standing hence the frustration.
We on the other hand descend from the original Vedic Kshatriyas who immigrated to India 4000 years ago and don't need no propaganda websites for our cause.
Every Abdul, Anil and Anthony knows about our glory and we don't need to convince people about our achievements

You are spouting rubbish and nothing else. A Punjabi Rajput has nothing to do with Jatts and Gujjars and infact most of them look down upon these castes considering them inferior. I have plenty of Muslim Rajput friends from Punjab all of whom are proud of their heritage and who would consider it extremely offensive to get themselves compared with the aforementioned castes.

PS: The ones from Muzaffarabad are fake.
Keep em coming

I'm saying as it is, I personally belong to one of the best known Rajput clan in the region, but that shouldn't hinder me from speaking the truth. It's mainly made-up mythology by peoples with fake pride ("martial race") using their status to bully others.

But let's admit your point. So why Haryanvi Jatts take all Olympic medals for India, despite being 1.5% of the country's population ? As per Jatt websites (who are generally run by Sikh Jatts of Punjab, who also give it a religious angle), it's because Jatts are taller/fairer/better looking/stronger than other Indians, I guess incl. Rajputs.

I also hope you showcase your Hindutvadi tendencies to these "friends".

 

[MenInG]

Guys - no need to ask personal stuff like what state etc

Have deleted all those posts

 

[TM Riddle]

I'm saying as it is, I personally belong to one of the best known Rajput clan in the region, but that shouldn't hinder me from speaking the truth. It's mainly made-up mythology by peoples with fake pride ("martial race") using their status to bully others.

But let's admit your point. So why Haryanvi Jatts take all Olympic medals for India, despite being 1.5% of the country's population ? As per Jatt websites (who are generally run by Sikh Jatts of Punjab, who also give it a religious angle), it's because Jatts are taller/fairer/better looking/stronger than other Indians, I guess incl. Rajputs.

I also hope you showcase your Hindutvadi tendencies to these "friends".

) Are you kidding me? Aww now I can't go harder on you.

Anyway the concept seems pretty tough for you to grasp so I'm gonna explain in simpler terms. See my mom has a long ancestry originating from Sindh.
One of my Buas(paternal aunt) is married in a Salariya Rajput family of Punjab.
My uncle's wife is a Minhas while my sister is married in a Dogra family who have Chibs as relatives.
The point of this post is that Rajputs of north India are interrelated on account of shared ancestry and marriage relations.
The ones from Kashmir to Jharkhand have the same blood flowing in their veins. It's a fact really.

Once Again you expose your ignorance about India's sports system. It's not only Jats but people from Haryana who excel in sports if you cared to notice. It's just that Jats form 30% of Haryana hence more talent pool.

Oh and btw the ones from Haryana are Hindus. Sikh ones are busy either making pathetic music videos or injecting themselves with opioids.

 

[enkidu_]

) Are you kidding me? Aww now I can't go harder on you.

Anyway the concept seems pretty tough for you to grasp so I'm gonna explain in simpler terms. See my mom has a long ancestry originating from Sindh.
One of my Buas(paternal aunt) is married in a Salariya Rajput family of Punjab.
My uncle's wife is a Minhas while my sister is married in a Dogra family who have Chibs as relatives.
The point of this post is that Rajputs of north India are interrelated on account of shared ancestry and marriage relations.
The ones from Kashmir to Jharkhand have the same blood flowing in their veins. It's a fact really.

Once Again you expose your ignorance about India's sports system. It's not only Jats but people from Haryana who excel in sports if you cared to notice. It's just that Jats form 30% of Haryana hence more talent pool.

Oh and btw the ones from Haryana are Hindus. Sikh ones are busy either making pathetic music videos or injecting themselves with opioids.

We're not Chib's but they form a slight majority in our village.

Anyway looks like your family is an exception from a Pak perspective. Perhaps Rajputs in Pak Punjab they used to have marriages with non Punjabi Rajputs before Partition, but I doubt it, because the Rajputs in Rajasthan have remained in majority Hindus.

That still doesn't change the fact that they belong to different ethnic groups (Punjabis =/= Rajasthanis). The major ethnic groups in Pak are the following : Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch. A caste doesn't make an ethnicity, but culture, language, food, etc do. So we get back to square one, 95% of Pak are different from 97-98% of India (all minus Punjabis/very few Sindhis).

That was initially in response to those who say that Pak and India are ethnically similar, as compared to China and India, and that's false. In fact, the country the most similar is Bangladesh, because it's majority pop, the Bengalis, are found at nearly 10% in India, but even there it means that nearly 100% of BD has nothing much to do ethnically with nearly 90% of India.

And why are Haryanvi over represented as compared to Punjabis, Rajasthanis, Tamils, etc ? Perhaps it's the same answer for [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION]'s primal question.

 

[TM Riddle]

We're not Chib's but they form a slight majority in our village.

Anyway looks like your family is an exception from a Pak perspective. Perhaps Rajputs in Pak Punjab they used to have marriages with non Punjabi Rajputs before Partition, but I doubt it, because the Rajputs in Rajasthan have remained in majority Hindus.

That still doesn't change the fact that they belong to different ethnic groups (Punjabis =/= Rajasthanis). The major ethnic groups in Pak are the following : Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch. A caste doesn't make an ethnicity, but culture, language, food, etc do. So we get back to square one, 95% of Pak are different from 97-98% of India (all minus Punjabis/very few Sindhis).

That was initially in response to those who say that Pak and India are ethnically similar, as compared to China and India, and that's false. In fact, the country the most similar is Bangladesh, because it's majority pop, the Bengalis, are found at nearly 10% in India, but even there it means that nearly 100% of BD has nothing much to do ethnically with nearly 90% of India.

And why are Haryanvi over represented as compared to Punjabis, Rajasthanis, Tamils, etc ? Perhaps it's the same answer for [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION]'s primal question.

Mere bhai do you know religion never formed as a barrier amongst Rajput clans when it came to marriage?
Kayamkhanis are a famous muslim Rajput clan from Rajasthan who converted in 12th century and ruled in areas around Nagore for a long time.
For centuries Hindu royals of Rajasthan had marriage relations with them. Infact 90 percent of their practices are still indigenous and Its really hard to differentiate a kayamkhani from a common Hindu Rajput.

So it doesn't matter really whether Rajasthani ones remained Hindu since inter marriage has continued despite that.

 

[TM Riddle]

We're not Chib's but they form a slight majority in our village.

Anyway looks like your family is an exception from a Pak perspective. Perhaps Rajputs in Pak Punjab they used to have marriages with non Punjabi Rajputs before Partition, but I doubt it, because the Rajputs in Rajasthan have remained in majority Hindus.

That still doesn't change the fact that they belong to different ethnic groups (Punjabis =/= Rajasthanis). The major ethnic groups in Pak are the following : Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch. A caste doesn't make an ethnicity, but culture, language, food, etc do. So we get back to square one, 95% of Pak are different from 97-98% of India (all minus Punjabis/very few Sindhis).

That was initially in response to those who say that Pak and India are ethnically similar, as compared to China and India, and that's false. In fact, the country the most similar is Bangladesh, because it's majority pop, the Bengalis, are found at nearly 10% in India, but even there it means that nearly 100% of BD has nothing much to do ethnically with nearly 90% of India.

And why are Haryanvi over represented as compared to Punjabis, Rajasthanis, Tamils, etc ? Perhaps it's the same answer for [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION]'s primal question.

And to answer your question , Haryanvis are over represented because of the available Infrastructure.
Heck even a small city of Bhiwani has more Olympic boxers than entire South Asia combined. How do you explain that?
Haryana owing to it's economic superiority due to it's close proximity with the national capital , has over the years invested a lot in sports Infrastructure.
This is precisely the reason why we see so many athletes from the region. The state has a sporting culture and the Govt has been at forefront of promotion of sports in last two decades.
It has nothing to do with racial superiority.

 

[enkidu_]

And to answer your question , Haryanvis are over represented because of the available Infrastructure.
Heck even a small city of Bhiwani has more Olympic boxers than entire South Asia combined. How do you explain that?
Haryana owing to it's economic superiority due to it's close proximity with the national capital , has over the years invested a lot in sports Infrastructure.
This is precisely the reason why we see so many athletes from the region. The state has a sporting culture and the Govt has been at forefront of promotion of sports in last two decades.
It has nothing to do with racial superiority.

Interesting, so [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] can now perhaps open a thread on why these Haryanvis are better in athletics than Punjabis, Biharis, Tamils, Marathis, etc despite all being in the same country.

 

[Ellipsism]

It would have been utterly embarrassing for India if Pakistan was ahead in terms of atheltics performance because we don’t invest in the field.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

There is 0.02% interest in athletics in Pakistan,from those who are sports fans.

That 0.02 % is comprised of those who have represented Pakistan in athletics events at the major level and those who take interest in them.Even then I am probably exaggerating quite a lot.

Even then the difference in 100m,200m,marathon and hurdles is not so vast.

India actually cares about sports(at least a lot more than Pakistan).

Pakistan athletes and all other individual sportspersons pay for their own travels or are privately funded.Most cannot reach the next level because they cannot afford it.Mohammad Asif won a world amateur snooker championship a few years ago.He still had to pay for his travels and tournament fees.

 

[PakLFC]

After the massive hammering given to India by England they need a reason to feel good about themselves! Such threads are evidence of this. No Pakistani or Indian takes any interest in athletics. We can talk about Squash, Hockey and Wrestling as well. As for the topic Pak does not have a athletic system.

 

[BlackShadow]

Interesting, so [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] can now perhaps open a thread on why these Haryanvis are better in athletics than Punjabis, Biharis, Tamils, Marathis, etc despite all being in the same country.

In your efforts to sound clever, you often miss things that are right in front of you.

100 m record holder - Orissa
200 m - Haryana
400 m - Kerala
800m - Kerala
Marathon - Rajasthan
Hurdles (110m,400m) - Maharashtra, Kerala
Hingh Jump - Delhi
Pole Vault - Tamil nadu
Long Jump - Uttar Pradesh
Triple Jump - Kerala
Shopt put - Haryana
Discus throw - Karnataka
Hammer throw - Punjab
Javelin throw - Haryana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_records_in_athletics

The Haryana or North East dominance comes in wrestling, weight lifting and boxing where India is leagues ahead of any other South Asian nation, and I won't mind starting a thread on it if you want that. But here we are talking athletics, aren't we?

The most interesting aspect here isn't India's athletic superiority, but the gulf between athletes of the two nations. Many of Pakistan's national record holders won't be state level athletes in India, and that's shocking!

 

[barah_admi]

Imagine a Chinese goes on a Afghan cricket forum, showcases their Olympic performances, and cunningly imply that the Chinese are physically stronger than the Afghans.

Of course no Chinese is insecure enough to even think of this, and the Chinese knows that the pop. difference and the infrastructure/funds/even the political situation differ as well.

The same way, India has 1.1 billion (yes, billion) more pop than Pak, and you're breaking news that its athletes have better records.

Wow.

By the way, how does India compare with Afghanistan ? To know wether the legend is true, that the Indian is more powerful than the Afghan.

And also China ? Because you know they have the same population, and considering how meek the Chinese is as compared to the strong Indian, I guess Bharat would take the cake as well.

But why limit to athletics ? India has produced some of the most Miss World's, and Pak none, which means that Indians are also better looking than Pakistanis (and Afghans, Chinese, etc as well, ofc).

hahhah great post!

I am wiating with bated breath for India v China - THE ATHLETICS!

 

[enkidu_]

In your efforts to sound clever, you often miss things that are right in front of you.

100 m record holder - Orissa
200 m - Haryana
400 m - Kerala
800m - Kerala
Marathon - Rajasthan
Hurdles (110m,400m) - Maharashtra, Kerala
Hingh Jump - Delhi
Pole Vault - Tamil nadu
Long Jump - Uttar Pradesh
Triple Jump - Kerala
Shopt put - Haryana
Discus throw - Karnataka
Hammer throw - Punjab
Javelin throw - Haryana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_records_in_athletics

The Haryana or North East dominance comes in wrestling, weight lifting and boxing where India is leagues ahead of any other South Asian nation, and I won't mind starting a thread on it if you want that. But here we are talking athletics, aren't we?

The most interesting aspect here isn't India's athletic superiority, but the gulf between athletes of the two nations. Many of Pakistan's national record holders won't be state level athletes in India, and that's shocking!

Had you followed your very own thread you'd know that we were discussing Haryanvis in Olympics, that's why I'm asking why are they so over represented as compared to other nations within India itself, the Punjabis, the Biharis, etc

Again, with 1.1 billion extra-population, you'll bound to get more individual success stories.

The only anomaly would be India not producing a single -25 averaging Test fast bowler in their main sport when tiny NZ does in its second/third sport.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

hahhah great post!

I am wiating with bated breath for India v China - THE ATHLETICS!

That is not a blockbuster topic according to some ignorant posters here.

 

[BlackShadow]

Had you followed your very own thread you'd know that we were discussing Haryanvis in Olympics, that's why I'm asking why are they so over represented as compared to other nations within India itself, the Punjabis, the Biharis, etc

Again, with 1.1 billion extra-population, you'll bound to get more individual success stories.

The only anomaly would be India not producing a single -25 averaging Test fast bowler in their main sport when tiny NZ does in its second/third sport.

How do you defend Indians beating their Pakistani counterparts by 8-10 meters in events where every single inch matters? Why are some of Pakistan's national record holders barely state-level by Indian standard? Does population excuse explain that too?

 

[BlackShadow]

As per [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION] 's logic, it is perfectly reasonable for American athletes to make Kiwi men look like girls because they have 72 times the population! MashaAllah.

 

[enkidu_]

How do you defend Indians beating their Pakistani counterparts by 8-10 meters in events where every single inch matters? Why are some of Pakistan's national record holders barely state-level by Indian standard? Does population excuse explain that too?

We get back to square one again : with a 1.1 BILLION extra-population, the individual records will be higher for the simple reason that there are potentially more individuals to take on these records, not mentioning the difference of investments in athletics, which are perceived in India itself intra-state (Haryana).

Now answer these two questions :

1) what's the point of the thread ?

2) will you open a thread comparing India with China ? Even if China's GDP/capita is 7400 as compared to India's 1700, thus a stronger base to produce athletes, the pop difference is not as contrasted in India/Pak (China has 5 crores more, a difference which will wither away in the few years to come btw), thus it'll be interesting to see how India compares with the other neighbor.

I want to see how subtle you can keep your low-intensity trolling and for how long.

 

[BlackShadow]

We get back to square one again : with a 1.1 BILLION extra-population, the individual records will be higher for the simple reason that there are potentially more individuals to take on these records, not mentioning the difference of investments in athletics, which are perceived in India itself intra-state (Haryana).

Now answer these two questions :

1) what's the point of the thread ?

2) will you open a thread comparing India with China ? Even if China's GDP/capita is 7400 as compared to India's 1700, thus a stronger base to produce athletes, the pop difference is not as contrasted in India/Pak (China has 5 crores more, a difference which will wither away in the few years to come btw), thus it'll be interesting to see how India compares with the other neighbor.

I want to see how subtle you can keep your low-intensity trolling and for how long.

Agreed, and this is why that comparison doesn't make sense.

As for your population logic, you are the only one here who believes that a nation of 200 million can present it as an excuse in any way, no one else has bought it, not even Pakistani posters. Creating athletes isn't a lucky draw where you find a few genetic freaks and throw them to the trainers. These are humans with similar human anatomy, and when you have one set of athletes outperforming others by such a huge margin, you gotta start looking at some other factors. In India-China case, that factor is affluence and resources, but when I look at Pakistan, I see nothing. We are both two poor 3rd world nations with corrupt sporting bodies.